NationStates Jolt Archive


The future of America's manned space program?

Balkasnia
13-08-2007, 20:22
In a few years the space shuttle, NASA's primary method of hauling humans into space since 1980 is about to be permanently decommissioned. Reasons for decommission: age and structural integrity of the remaining shuttles, costs of shuttle flights (space shuttle flights cost more than the Apollo missions), and antiquated design (space shuttles need constant repair) Right now NASA is cramming more scheduled launches into the following years before the space shuttles are grounded. Once they are grounded NASA is going to rely on the Russians to ferry American astronauts into space for the next five years until NASA develops another spacecraft to carry Americans into space. So what is the future of America's manned space program?
Psychotic Mongooses
13-08-2007, 20:28
Richard Branson.

:)
Myrmidonisia
13-08-2007, 20:29
In a few years the space shuttle, NASA's primary method of hauling humans into space since 1980 is about to be permanently decommissioned. Reasons for decommission: age and structural integrity of the remaining shuttles, costs of shuttle flights (space shuttle flights cost more than the Apollo missions), and antiquated design (space shuttles need constant repair) Right now NASA is cramming more scheduled launches into the following years before the space shuttles are grounded. Once they are grounded NASA is going to rely on the Russians to ferry American astronauts into space for the next five years until NASA develops another spacecraft to carry Americans into space. So what is the future of America's manned space program?
I'm sure it's bleak. We'd rather make sure that no one is ever financially or physically uncomfortable and to that end, all our tax revenues are going to be committed to "saving" the bankrupt and badly managed entitlement programs that buy so many votes.

I forgot about private enterprise -- That's where the future is, in the hands of visionaries like Richard Branson and Burt Rutan!
Krahe
13-08-2007, 20:29
Ares I crew launch vehicle is scheduled for 2012. This will be the craft that will take the US back to the moon and then to Mars. Personally, I think the moon will happen. Still to early to know if Mars is going to come about.

There will be a gap in there, but not for too long...
Khadgar
13-08-2007, 20:30
It's disgraceful that those shuttles are still in service. They're antiques! I know military ships are expected to have decades long service lives but you'd think after the multiple disasters caused by poor designs the shuttle fleet would of been scrapped and replaced years ago.

That foam that, that's so fucking stupid, wrap some chicken wire around it. Jesus.
Khadgar
13-08-2007, 20:32
I'm sure it's bleak. We'd rather make sure that no one is ever financially or physically uncomfortable and to that end, all our tax revenues are going to be committed to "saving" the bankrupt and badly managed entitlement programs that buy so many votes.

I forgot about private enterprise -- That's where the future is, in the hands of visionaries like Richard Branson and Burt Rutan!

Annual NASA budget: 16.8 billion.
Iraq: 100+ billion annually.

Somehow I doubt social security is the drain keeping us from funding NASA.
Rubiconic Crossings
13-08-2007, 20:32
Richard Branson.

:)

More like Burt Rutan...
Myrmidonisia
13-08-2007, 20:34
Annual NASA budget: 16.8 billion.
Iraq: 100+ billion annually.

Somehow I doubt social security is the drain keeping us from funding NASA.
If we really want to spend the kind of GDP percentage that will get us to Mars, entitlements are certainly what will hold us back.

16 billion can't even get the space station finished.
Myrmidonisia
13-08-2007, 20:35
More like Burt Rutan...

Both, even the best brains need financial backing.
Khadgar
13-08-2007, 20:37
If we really want to spend the kind of GDP percentage that will get us to Mars, entitlements are certainly what will hold us back.

16 billion can't even get the space station finished.

I think a couple hundred billion would do the job though.
Balkasnia
13-08-2007, 20:39
Jeez its like every friggin launch a chunk of foam peels off at the speed of sound and damages something. What a horrible design! Another hit to the remaining shuttles could really cause another Columbia.

Some analysts have stated that Soyuz flights are more safer, and cost effective than shuttle flights. What makes the shuttle so expensive its the three massive spacecrafts: the shuttle, the solid fuel boosters, and the external fuel tank. Soyuz missions employ the less expensive multistage design. I heard that is what NASA is returning to.
H N Fiddlebottoms VIII
13-08-2007, 20:39
More like Burt Rutan...
An undead Jackie Gleason would be even better, though probably not as likely.
Balkasnia
13-08-2007, 20:41
Should space flight be a private industry thing? Some company builds the spacecraft and then charges NASA for payload?
Rubiconic Crossings
13-08-2007, 20:49
Both, even the best brains need financial backing.

Rutan would need that...yes. I suspect it won't be long before he does. Branson....not really sure he's thought this through...
Myrmidonisia
13-08-2007, 20:53
I think a couple hundred billion would do the job though.
In terms of cost, as a percentage of today's GDP, it would take more than $350 billion to do the Apollo program. I would expect a trip to Mars to be vastly more expensive than Apollo.
Myrmidonisia
13-08-2007, 20:54
Rutan would need that...yes. I suspect it won't be long before he does. Branson....not really sure he's thought this through...

You haven't bought your tickets on Virgin Galactic?

http://www.virgingalactic.com/htmlsite/index.php
Rubiconic Crossings
13-08-2007, 20:55
Buy a seat on something that does not exist....I think not. :)
Balkasnia
13-08-2007, 20:57
I wouldn't be caught dead on Virgin Galactic. I'll wait for a tried and true aerospace company to start commericial spaceflight
Sumamba Buwhan
13-08-2007, 21:55
space elevators are the true space payload deliverance systems of the future.
Nihelm
13-08-2007, 22:02
space elevators are the true space payload deliverance systems of the future.


when I hear talk of space elevators, I start to hear The Jetsons theme


seriously, I see those as the first step to buildings high off the ground with treadmills on the outside...
Sel Appa
13-08-2007, 23:02
Russians should be like: Give us $1 billion per person, chumps.
Cypresaria
13-08-2007, 23:29
The future of the US government space program

Today - Jan 2009 The heavy lifter rocket/Aries program runs happliy along in development along with shuttle
Jan 2009 New president takes over (demoprat)
Feb 2009 : Heavy lifter program canceled on basis of 'cost'
Mid 2010 : last shuttle flight
2011 : Aries program canceled completely because the president wants the money to be spent on a 'minority empowerment' programs that may just bring her enough swings votes in a few states to hold onto the top job.
2012 US forced to beg, borrow or steal rides on the Russian/ ESA craft
2016 Chinese manned craft orbits the moon
2018 Joint Russian/ESA/Chinese moon landing returns with all 6 US flags from the Apollo missions and says 'get lost yanks, the moon is ours now'

Meanwhile the totally f***ed up medicare and welfare programs spiral out of control to 2 trillion dollars a year
Nihelm
14-08-2007, 00:00
The future of the US government space program

Today - Jan 2009 The heavy lifter rocket/Aries program runs happliy along in development along with shuttle
Jan 2009 New president takes over (demoprat)
Feb 2009 : Heavy lifter program canceled on basis of 'cost'
Mid 2010 : last shuttle flight
2011 : Aries program canceled completely because the president wants the money to be spent on a 'minority empowerment' programs that may just bring her enough swings votes in a few states to hold onto the top job.
2012 US forced to beg, borrow or steal rides on the Russian/ ESA craft
2016 Chinese manned craft orbits the moon
2018 Joint Russian/ESA/Chinese moon landing returns with all 6 US flags from the Apollo missions and says 'get lost yanks, the moon is ours now'

Meanwhile the totally f***ed up medicare and welfare programs spiral out of control to 2 trillion dollars a year
Anyone else smell a big pile of bullshit?
New Stalinberg
14-08-2007, 00:09
It will go nowhere, seeing as how it hasn't really gone anywhere since 1969.
Wesmerica
14-08-2007, 00:31
Bumming a ride to space from the Russians:p

Bring back the Saturn V!!!!
Khadgar
14-08-2007, 00:40
space elevators are the true space payload deliverance systems of the future.

There are massive engineering problems with the concept. Getting a material strong enough is beyond us currently.
Good Lifes
14-08-2007, 00:53
Unless we move away from tinkle down economics there won't be money for any major projects. The US hasn't had the money for any major project since 1980. And it looks like we have other things (like infrastructure) that's going to get the first dribbles of that money if it ever starts tinkling down.
Terramede
14-08-2007, 01:00
Carbon nanotubes?
Kyronea
14-08-2007, 01:03
There are massive engineering problems with the concept. Getting a material strong enough is beyond us currently.

I knew it wasn't feasible. My dad constantly harps on about space elevators and I keep telling him they're unfeasible.

Could nanotechnology make them feasible, however?
Biridiya
14-08-2007, 01:14
Space elevators are a bunch of hokey! We need to focus on more feasible things like warp drive!:p Seriously whatever happened to ion propulsion and scramjet technology that is what is going to get us into space effectively. The X-Prize needs to focus on more feasible things.

If you think the private industry is going to lead American back into space. Just remember that charred launchpad in New Mexico.;)
Sumamba Buwhan
14-08-2007, 01:18
There are massive engineering problems with the concept. Getting a material strong enough is beyond us currently.


I knew it wasn't feasible. My dad constantly harps on about space elevators and I keep telling him they're unfeasible.

Could nanotechnology make them feasible, however?



Carbon nanotubes?

Yep, carbon nanotubes. They plan to add another layer each trip or some shit so as to have the ability to carry greater and greater loads each time. Several of them would make it so much cheaper to take large loads to space. It would be much easier on the environment too. I fear what might happen if an elevator satellite is hit with a meteor though.

I like to imagine the starcraft they build that is never meant to travel thru Earths atmosphere.
Soyut
14-08-2007, 01:43
I'm sure it's bleak. We'd rather make sure that no one is ever financially or physically uncomfortable and to that end, all our tax revenues are going to be committed to "saving" the bankrupt and badly managed entitlement programs that buy so many votes.

I forgot about private enterprise -- That's where the future is, in the hands of visionaries like Richard Branson and Burt Rutan!

Its so true. I wanna cry...
Myrmidonisia
14-08-2007, 13:10
Space elevators are a bunch of hokey! We need to focus on more feasible things like warp drive!:p Seriously whatever happened to ion propulsion and scramjet technology that is what is going to get us into space effectively. The X-Prize needs to focus on more feasible things.

If you think the private industry is going to lead American back into space. Just remember that charred launchpad in New Mexico.;)
What about the "charred launchpad"? It didn't seem to hurt Rutan and his space program, nor has it really affected the commercial satellite launch service AKA Ariane.
Entropic Creation
14-08-2007, 19:28
Should space flight be a private industry thing? Some company builds the spacecraft and then charges NASA for payload?
Most satellites are not launched by NASA as it is far too expensive to use the shuttle. In terms of putting things into orbit, private industry is way ahead, in terms of putting people into orbit to do repairs or complex work, only NASA and RKA undergo that kind of expenditure.

Perhaps in a couple decades there will be enough money in it for private enterprise to run tourists to space, but sending a man into orbit is very expensive and risky right now. The sunk cost would be too prohibitive for private firms to compete for that service.
Neo Undelia
14-08-2007, 19:32
We have enough problems on Earth. We can worry about how we'll never be able to meaningfully leave this planet later.
Laterale
14-08-2007, 19:49
I fear what might happen if an elevator satellite is hit with a meteor though.

The odds of that happening are so minuscule that even I have trouble thinking about it.
Sumamba Buwhan
14-08-2007, 20:33
The odds of that happening are so minuscule that even I have trouble thinking about it.


I know, but it would suck if it did anyway :p

This is why we must create an actual ring world.
Kyronea
14-08-2007, 20:49
The odds of that happening are so minuscule that even I have trouble thinking about it.

What about debris left in orbit from previous space missions?
Myrmidonisia
14-08-2007, 20:55
What about debris left in orbit from previous space missions?
That stuff has to come out of orbit eventually, but I think the big sky theory would still apply.
Remote Observer
14-08-2007, 20:58
We have enough problems on Earth. We can worry about how we'll never be able to meaningfully leave this planet later.

A few of us should leave while we can, set up permanent independent bases on the Moon and Mars, and let the idiots down here kill each other all they want.

There's a lot of safety in being at the top of a gravity well.
Nihelm
14-08-2007, 21:03
A few of us should leave while we can, set up permanent independent bases on the Moon

....I must be a geek. Read that and "Gundam Wing" popped right into my head.
CoallitionOfTheWilling
14-08-2007, 21:22
Ares I crew launch vehicle is scheduled for 2012. This will be the craft that will take the US back to the moon and then to Mars. Personally, I think the moon will happen. Still to early to know if Mars is going to come about.

There will be a gap in there, but not for too long...


Actually, the Ares V will probably be the one to put people on the moon.

But it's coming out in 2020...

Ares I will work fine for orbital missions to the space station.
Ultraviolent Radiation
14-08-2007, 22:11
I think the lack of progress in space travel is a symptom of a bigger problem (not limited to America). The meaning of 'technology' has changed - technology used to mean things like interplanetary colonisation, now it means consumer crap like mobile phones with a myriad of unnecessary features.
Myrmidonisia
14-08-2007, 23:11
I think the lack of progress in space travel is a symptom of a bigger problem (not limited to America). The meaning of 'technology' has changed - technology used to mean things like interplanetary colonisation, now it means consumer crap like mobile phones with a myriad of unnecessary features.
Not to everyone. The Chinese have some ambitious plans (http://www.aerospaceguide.net/worldspace/chang'e1.html)...

Chinese Lunar Exploration Program

Chinese Lunar Exploration Program is a program of unmanned and manned missions to the Moon by China. According to the plan, the program will go through three milestones:

1. Orbiting: Chang'e 1 in 2007
2. Landing: Chang'e 2 in 2008-2009 - deploy a lunar lander for surface exploration in a limited area on the moon.
3. Returning: Chang'e 3 in 2012-2017 - a lunar sample return mission
PsychoticDan
14-08-2007, 23:17
space hotel.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/08/14/space.hotel.reut/index.html
Neo Undelia
15-08-2007, 06:00
A few of us should leave while we can, set up permanent independent bases on the Moon and Mars, and let the idiots down here kill each other all they want.

There's a lot of safety in being at the top of a gravity well.

Honestly, if people like you were going, I think I'd rather stay.
La Habana Cuba
15-08-2007, 16:31
Quick post more later tonight, I have never liked these so called space shuttles they are always breaking down, if its not one problem its another.