Happy Birth day Fidel or Not - 81 Monday August 13, 2007
La Habana Cuba
12-08-2007, 21:09
On Monday Agust 13, 2007 will be Fidel's official 81 Birthday, this is your chance to wish Fidel a happy Birthday or not, you may post your reasons.
Will the Cuban people and the world see Fidel alive in public?
Dead in a coffin, well the Cuban government announce Fidel has died?
Some persons believe Fidel has died and the Cuban government is covering it up from the Cuban people and the world, many possible reasons for this.
They think of possible anti government protest asking for economic, political and or social changes.
They think of a new spontaneous Balsero crisis.
They think governments like the EU nations and others will ask for real poltical changes for better relations.
Others?
Dead or alive, this is an excuse to drink.
*gets beer produced by capitalists from fridge*
I think Fidel would approve :P
Ashmoria
12-08-2007, 21:19
i wouldnt be shocked to find out that castro died half a year ago but i suppose he's probably just incapacitated and waiting for death.
no reason to delay telling everyone that he is dead. raul is in control. and perhaps raul has some changes of his own that he would like to impliment as soon as his brother dies.
Sel Appa
12-08-2007, 23:14
VIVA FIDEL!
LONG LIVE FIDEL!
http://www.terra.com/addon/img/noticias/16eb306castro2np.jpg
Andaras Prime
12-08-2007, 23:19
As Fidel would have said, 'Condemn me, it does not matter, history will absolve me'.
Also, Habana, please don't press enter so often.
UN Protectorates
12-08-2007, 23:34
Wow. It's that time of the year already? Oh well here goes.
Happy Birthday Castro. There I said it.
La Habana Cuba
13-08-2007, 19:41
Today Monday August 13, 2007, one of the numbers of the Devil, is officially Fidel's 81 st Birthday, here is my personal Birthday wish for Fidel Dead or alive, Rot in Hell where you belong Fidel Dead or Alive
Fidel has not been seen in Public for over a year now, persons think he may be Dead, alive getting better, alive in a Coma, alive very sick, alive totally or partially Incapacitaded, perhaps Senile or Alzheimers, or never been sick is just all faked.
For some reason the Cuban government has not shown him in Public for over a year now, not even on his Birthday.
Rot in Hell where you belong Fidel, Dead or Alive.
New Stalinberg
13-08-2007, 19:52
Meh, he isn't THAT bad of a guy.
Meh, he isn't THAT bad of a guy.
Relatively speaking...he's kind of like Brezhnev.
Psychotic Mongooses
13-08-2007, 20:22
Happy Birthday Fidel and to anyone else who's birthday it is today.
He's no Pinochet. :p
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 03:16
Happy Birthday Fidel and to anyone else who's birthday it is today.
He's no Pinochet. :p
Yes Fidel is no Augusto Pinochet, a right wing dictator of Chile no doubt about that, at the very least he agreed to a national referendum on his rule, with certain safeguards for himself should he loose, which he did loose and accepted and today Chile has had at least 2 Socialist Democratic governments in the tradition of European Socialits Democratic States where all Citizens diffrent political, economic and social views are represented in its Parliment.
Unlike in Cuba, when ex political prisoner Oswaldo Paya through the Varela Project organization collected first 10,000 then 20,000 Cuban Citizens signitures asking for a referendum on economic, political and social reform freedoms.
And Fidel's response was a counter petition amendment to the Cuban Constitution to declare Cuba's economic, political and social system irrevocable, which according to the Cuban government was supported by over 99 % of Cuban elegible voters and approved by the Cuban National Assembly unaminously, all for non against.
National Democratic Socialist elections in a one political party state where according to the government always gets over 95 % of the vote, and 96.32 % choose all of the above Candiadates option, yet all those elections are suppoosed to be seperate elections.
Cuba has upcoming Municipal, Provincial and National Assembly elections late this year and early next year dates to be announced, would anyone like to guess those election results before they even happen?
It amazing that 18 fellow nations posters on this forum have wished a Happy Birthday
to someone who would take all the political rights away of thier fellow nationals in their nation of origin if they were all Cuban Citizens, or seem to wish thier nation of origin were just like Cuba.
Andaluciae
14-08-2007, 03:19
He's no Pinochet. :p
Yeah, Pinochet only had the blood of some 3,000 people on his hands, Fidel probably has three times as much.
Andaras Prime
14-08-2007, 05:16
Yeah, Pinochet only had the blood of some 3,000 people on his hands, Fidel probably has three times as much.
So? It was a Revolution, revolutions are always bloody, the French revolution was not less bloody than the Russian one. Judging an ideology by it's each share of blood is ignorant, violence is a means to establish said ideological order, as it has always been.
Also, please look at Miami to see the kinds of people Fidel kicked out.
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 05:41
So? It was a Revolution, revolutions are always bloody, the French revolution was not less bloody than the Russian one. Judging an ideology by it's each share of blood is ignorant, violence is a means to establish said ideological order, as it has always been.
Also, please look at Miami to see the kinds of people Fidel kicked out.
So lets see if I understand you correctly, you would like your nation of origin Australia I beleive, to be just like Cuba, kick Australian Citizens out who do not share socialist economic, political and social views because Australia would be a Socialist Democratic State?
Andaras Prime
14-08-2007, 05:56
So lets see if I understand you correctly, you would like your nation of origin Australia I beleive, to be just like Cuba, kick Australian Citizens out who do not share socialist economic, political and social views because Australia would be a Socialist Democratic State?
Look, I think your taking this a bit out of context. Of course I wouldn't like my own country to go through a revolution, the Cuban revolution was horrible and tore the country apart, but you need to put it in context. Batista was not a nice person, I think it's fair to call him a dictator, he got students shot up and was generally quite repressive, so in that situation where their was no chance for a socialist party to come to power democratically because Batista wouldn't have elections, revolution was a necessity to this objective, nothing more, I don't think bloodshed would characterize the ideology of any revolution, be it the American one or any revolution, bloodshed is a means.
My country on the other hand is democratic, so we have the opportunity to elect leftist parties, this is of course nominal because the patronage/personalism politics likes to keep leftists out, but we are not totally disenfranchised.
Furthermore, I don't think you know what you mean when you say 'Democratic Socialist State', democracy is communism by it's very nature, it is majority control of politics and the economy, while capitalist is minority control. So the only way to have such a state would be to set up a society in which power (economic and political) was distributed according to total democratic principle, that is 'one person=one value', that is both in politics through local council etc and in economics, so worker councils and material equality. Socialism is not something you can just through into a capitalist state as a token gesture and expect it to work, socialism requires a radical reorganization of the way society works.
I agree with you though. that some European countries have some good socialist policies, I myself am a big follower of the social democratic parties in Scandinavia.
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 06:10
Look, I think your taking this a bit out of context. Of course I wouldn't like my own country to go through a revolution, the Cuban revolution was horrible and tore the country apart, but you need to put it in context. Batista was not a nice person, I think it's fair to call him a dictator, he got students shot up and was generally quite repressive, so in that situation where their was no chance for a socialist party to come to power democratically because Batista wouldn't have elections, revolution was a necessity to this objective, nothing more, I don't think bloodshed would characterize the ideology of any revolution, be it the American one or any revolution, bloodshed is a means.
My country on the other hand is democratic, so we have the opportunity to elect leftist parties, this is of course nominal because the patronage/personalism politics likes to keep leftists out, but we are not totally disenfranchised.
Furthermore, I don't think you know what you mean when you say 'Democratic Socialist State', democracy is communism by it's very nature, it is majority control of politics and the economy, while capitalist is minority control. So the only way to have such a state would be to set up a society in which power (economic and political) was distributed according to total democratic principle, that is 'one person=one value', that is both in politics through local council etc and in economics, so worker councils and material equality. Socialism is not something you can just through into a capitalist state as a token gesture and expect it to work, socialism requires a radical reorganization of the way society works.
I agree with you though. that some European countries have some good socialist policies, I myself am a big follower of the social democratic parties in Scandinavia.
I can inverse most if not all of this to Fidel, Fidel is not a nice person he is a dictator, Fidel does not allow multy party elections where all Citizens diffrent economic, poltical and social views can be represented in the Cuban National Assembly at least Batista did not kick out 2,000,000 million or 99 % percent of the Cuban Citizens who did not agree with him in your view.
If a majority of the people of Australia were to vote for a Fidel like ruler, I understand you would probably say the system would not allow him to turn it 100 percent socialist democracy in your view, on the other hand Hitler won a multy party election and became a dictator, hugo Chavez of Venezuela a Socialist Dictator, not a socialist President in the Scanadinavian European sense and tradition.
But should that Australian ruler find away to turn it into another socialist Cuba, he would have to kick out Australian Citizens who do not share your democratic socialists views.
Occeandrive3
14-08-2007, 06:16
Happy Birthday Fidel.
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1205/120505carterjimmycastrofidel.jpg
God bless.
Andaras Prime
14-08-2007, 06:24
I can inverse most if not all of this to Fidel, Fidel is not a nice person he is a dictator, Fidel does not allow multy party elections where all Citizens diffrent economic, poltical and social views can be represented in the Cuban National Assembly at least Batista did not kick out 2,000,000 million or 99 % percent of the Cuban Citizens who did not agree with him in your view.
If a majority of the people of Australia were to vote for a Fidel like ruler, I understand you would probably say the system would not allow him to turn it 100 percent socialist democracy in your view, on the other hand Hitler won a multy party election and became a dictator, hugo Chavez of Venezuela a Socialist Dictator, not a socialist President in the Scanadinavian European sense and tradition.
But should that Australian ruler find away to turn it into another socialist Cuba, he would have to kick out Australian Citizens who do not share your democratic socialists views.
Well while I abhor any dictator using socialism a guise, if the community democratically chose to expel all those who publicly rejected socialism in favor of a minority liberalism model, then I would support it. Why would anyone want people in their community who want to destroy their own community with capitalist/liberalism policy? I certainly wouldn't, and I would pull the trigger myself if the majority democratically chose it, I believe in democracy so strongly.
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 06:28
Well while I abhor any dictator using socialism a guise, if the community democratically chose to expel all those who publicly rejected socialism in favor of a minority liberalism model, then I would support it. Why would anyone want people in their community who want to destroy their own community with capitalist/liberalism policy? I certainly wouldn't, and I would pull the trigger myself if the majority democratically chose it, I believe in democracy so strongly.
What about the minoritys non socialist, economic, political and social views, kick them out democratically, because Australia would be a true Democratic socialist state? Very interesting Socialist Democratic concept?
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 07:46
Happy Birthday Fidel.
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1205/120505carterjimmycastrofidel.jpg
God bless.
Occeandrive3, as I have posted your fellow non socialist Citizens political rights would not be respected or allowed in your nation of origin if it were another Cuba.
In fact, Cable and Sattlelite TV service would not be legal it would be illegal,
and a site like Nationstates, Jolt-Col-UK forums would not be allowed so you would not be able to debate, discuss or share your socialist democratic views with the rest of us under those conditions,
You might be allowed an internet connection at a government owned internet site of business carefully monitored so you would not be able to say anything your government does not like.
I used to communicate with an anti Fidel family member in Cuba who works in a government office company with computers at her work center, has a job better than mine, a job that would pay $ great anywhere in the world except Cuba, has to rely on Cuban American family remittances $ and the illegal black market to live a little bit better and drives a bicycle to work.
What a socialist democratic paradise that trades with Canada, Australia, the EU Nations, China, Venezuela and others, gets cheap Venezuelan oil, even buys agricultural products from the USA on a Cod Basis, what a socialist democratic paradise?
We never used to say anything bad about cuba or Fidel, but one day we must have slipped up and said something the Cuban government did not like, next thing I know, I get a message from the Cuban government access denied for political reasons.
I am not the first Cuban American this has happend too nor the last, a family member of yours oversees if your nation of origin were to be just like Cuba would get the same message.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaras Prime
Well while I abhor any dictator using socialism a guise, if the community democratically chose to expel all those who publicly rejected socialism in favor of a minority liberalism model, then I would support it. Why would anyone want people in their community who want to destroy their own community with capitalist/liberalism policy? I certainly wouldn't, and I would pull the trigger myself if the majority democratically chose it, I believe in democracy so strongly.
What about the minoritys non socialist, economic, political and social views, kick them out democratically, because Australia would be a true Democratic socialist state? Very interesting Socialist Democratic concept?
There is nothing wrong in being a socialist in the democratic European socialist tradition of Scandinavia, nor in the sense of the socialist democratic Presidents of Chile Ricardo Lagos and Michelle Bachelet.
But it is wrong to be a Socialst dictator in the sense of Presidents Fidel, Raul Castro and Hugo Chavez for life.
Andaras Prime
14-08-2007, 07:57
Well honestly I do not believe that Castro is in charge all because he wants absolute personal power, if you read the masses of his 4-hour long speeches, his policies, and interviews with them (especially the Oliver Stone one), I don't buy him being in charge for the sake of personal power. He honestly believes in socialism but just keeps himself as head of state because he's so afraid that without him the state will just abandon socialism and go to capitalism, the idea of safeguarding the revolution.
I am sure if Cuba did not have the US on it's doorstep just waiting to invade or support exile invasion, subversive activity and everything to get rid of socialism, that Fidel would give up his power. The US in in it's anti-democratic/socialist stance has forced Fidel into staying head of state to preserve that which he was devoted his life to preserving, that if why now that he is ill and older he is trying to make the socialist state permanent in Cuba, he is after all only human. Your also forgetting that Fidel and Raul rarely if ever interfere in micro issues, people still elect their own local representatives etc, and there is total freedom of the press as state funding is distributed proportionate to the numbers of each mass organization, true democratic media.
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 08:16
Well honestly I do not believe that Castro is in charge all because he wants absolute personal power, if you read the masses of his 4-hour long speeches, his policies, and interviews with them (especially the Oliver Stone one), I don't buy him being in charge for the sake of personal power. He honestly believes in socialism but just keeps himself as head of state because he's so afraid that without him the state will just abandon socialism and go to capitalism, the idea of safeguarding the revolution.
I am sure if Cuba did not have the US on it's doorstep just waiting to invade or support exile invasion, subversive activity and everything to get rid of socialism, that Fidel would give up his power. The US in in it's anti-democratic/socialist stance has forced Fidel into staying head of state to preserve that which he was devoted his life to preserving, that if why now that he is ill and older he is trying to make the socialist state permanent in Cuba, he is after all only human. Your also forgetting that Fidel and Raul rarely if ever interfere in micro issues, people still elect their own local representatives etc, and there is total freedom of the press as state funding is distributed proportionate to the numbers of each mass organization, true democratic media.
LOL, Fidel give up power on his own, a national petition referendum to declare Cuba's economic, political and social system irrevocable how democratically socialist, according to the Cuban government supported by over 99 perecent of Cuban elegible voters, you beleive that possible over 99 %, 96.32 % choose an all of the above candidates option in seperate Municipal, Provincial and National Assembly elections.
You call that a socialist democratic government, lol, democratically kicking out Citizens who do not have socialist, economic, political and social views, including in Australia if it were to be a true socialist democratic state just like Cuba, we could not do it in socialist democratic Cuba if we were both Cuban Citizens, actually I would be kicked out democratically by over 99 % of Cuban elegible voters, I will read your repsonse if you respond, good night for now Andaras prime till we share our views again.
Are my letters coming out in very small letter type or is it my very bad eyesight, anyone please respond?
not willing to judge what i am not personally familiar with, i believe it is a light of hope to all humanity, that dispite america's combination of power and hatred for anything that refuses to put symbolic value ahead of the real world we all have to live in, for this odd and interesting personage to have survived the many years that he has, and may well continue for several more years to do so.
of course he is after all mortal, and i hope and pray cuba can survive whatever proceedure it has for succession, without becoming once again the vassil to self-serving corruption, that whatever castro may or may not be or have been, it does seem historicly that he was instrumental in rescuing it from.
=^^=
.../\...
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 08:44
not willing to judge what i am not personally familiar with, i believe it is a light of hope to all humanity, that dispite america's combination of power and hatred for anything that refuses to put symbolic value ahead of the real world we all have to live in, for this odd and interesting personage to have survived the many years that he has, and may well continue for several more years to do so.
of course he is after all mortal, and i hope and pray cuba can survive whatever proceedure it has for succession, without becoming once again the vassil to self-serving corruption, that whatever castro may or may not be or have been, it does seem historicly that he was instrumental in rescuing it from.
=^^=
.../\...
LOL Cameroi, your political rights would be taken away by Fidel if you were an average Cuban Citizen true socialist or not, no Cable or Sattlelite TV legal because that is a form of international information, no right wing press, no left wing press just the governments press and views, maybe not even your computer, lol, therefore no site like Nationstates- Jolt-Co-UK Forums, true socialist or not which already is not legal, it is illegal.
Is my computer typing coming out in really small type or is it my very bad eyesight anyone please respond?
LOL Cameroi, your political rights would be taken away by Fidel if you were an average Cuban Citizen true socialist or not, no Cable or Sattlelite TV legal because that is a form of international information, no right wing press, no left wing press just the governments press and views, maybe not even your computer, lol, therefore no site like Nationstates- Jolt-Co-UK Forums, true socialist or not which already is not legal, it is illegal.
Is my computer typing coming out in really small type or is it my very bad eyesight anyone please respond?
your point in relation to anything i have said being?
(how do the short commings, even the real ones, of one idiology, absolve those of another? if one murderer is caught, does that mean all others should be let out of jail free?)
ordinary size type, small sounding size mind.
=^^=
.../\...
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 10:19
your point in relation to anything i have said being?
(how do the short commings, even the real ones, of one idiology, absolve those of another? if one murderer is caught, does that mean all others should be let out of jail free?)
ordinary size type, small sounding size mind.
=^^=
.../\...
Thank you Cameroi for reponding to my type size it must be my very bad eyesight, I would inverse your coment to anyone that supports Fidel who would take all thier poltical rights away true socialists or not.
That said, In your nation of origin, or the nation you are posting from you can have anti government views, share them with all of us from your computer, vote for your favorite political party and views unlike in Cuba, which I point out there is no such thing as a right wing media and a left wing media only a government views media, small sounding size mind?
P.S. I am not in anyway so called insulted, nothing insults me, how nice that you have a right to all your economic, political and social views in the nation you live in but not in Cuba if you were an average Cuban Citizen, just ask former Cuban political prisoner Oswaldo Paya and others, small sounding size mind indeed.
Demented Hamsters
14-08-2007, 10:48
I hope Fidel lasts until after Jan, 2009. That way, Bush won't have the opportunity to make political mileage out of this death.
La Habana Cuba
14-08-2007, 10:55
I hope Fidel lasts until after Jan, 2009. That way, Bush won't have the opportunity to make political mileage out of this death.
There are unconfirmed rumors right now that Fidel is alive but very very sick close to real death, I will post if I hear anything as time permits me.
It does not matter, President Bush is out of office in a few months anyway, compared to Fidel over 48 years how democratic and most of you democrats called President Bush a real dictator even worse then Fidel, he has no real influence with congress left anyways.
How nice that Democrats were able to take control of Congress in democratic multy party elections, yet many on this forum would deny those multy party rights to Cubans in Cuba like Oswaldo Paya and others, including my anti Fidel family members still in Cuba who have to watch what they say and think.