NationStates Jolt Archive

Principal Resigns Over 'Intifada' T-Shirts (http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/principal-resigns-over-intifada-t-shirts/20070810190909990001)

I'm fairly certain most who read this will simply masturbate to "Hur hur hur, s1||y 3b1| /\/\05|3/\/\z" but for those few who actually won't:

It's a strong commentary on how powerful controlling images and definitions can be in this modern world. Almost everyone in the West always pictures Islamist attacks when they hear the word "Jihad," and almost everyone unanimously accepts that "Intifada" (as opposted to "The Intifada") means the violent uprising in the Occupied Territories.

However, Almontaser is correct in stating that the word "Intifada" itself means "Shaking Off."

Almontaser, a public school teacher with 15 years of experience, told the paper that was a stretch. She said the word, which is most commonly associated with the violent Palestinian uprising against the Israelis, "basically means 'shaking off."'


answers.com - intifada (http://www.answers.com/topic/intifada)

What's irritating is that in this day and era, a chance for cultural understanding and diversity is being quashed because people assume all Arab Muslim schools are going to be Wahabbist Madrassas.

Still, Almontaser's departure appeared unlikely to end opposition to the school.

"The fact that she is gone doesn't mean anything at all. All the people behind her are still there," said Hope Winters, a Manhattan mother and member of a group that brought the "Intifada NYC" T-shirts to public attention.

In a country that touts its freedoms as the main selling point, I can't help but find this a little troubling. Then again, a kid in school somewhere else was suspended for wearing a Dubya T-Shirt with the words "International Terrorist" on it too so go figure.

You might want to check that first link mate ;)

Edit: You got it.

Perhaps t-shirts aren't covered under freedom of expression........

You might want to check that first link mate ;)

Edit: You got it.

I already fixed it. It's a social commentary on how fucking reliable AOL is.

I am opposed to religious or otherwise sectarian schools on the whole, but this principal strikes me as quite stupid. What the hell did she think was gonna happen when she used a word like "intifada", especially in a country as insular and parochially provincial as the USA?

Perhaps t-shirts aren't covered under freedom of expression...

Freedom of expression != immunity from criticism over said expression.

Any American knows that we do not have freedom of speech/expression in our schools.

If you wear a shirt the school doesn't like, you're subject to discplinary measures. That's just how it is.

How stupid is that principal? Regardless of what the word actually means, it has extremely negative connotations. Like "blitzkrieg".

How stupid is that principal? Regardless of what the word actually means, it has extremely negative connotations. Like "blitzkrieg".

Yet today there's no strong stigma attached to words like "blitzkrieg" or "inquisition." Sometimes people even use "holocaust" in a generic term. 9-11 and the Middle East conflicts are still recent enough for people to associate Arabic words with Islamist violence.

Yet today there's no strong stigma attached to words like "blitzkrieg" or "inquisition." Sometimes people even use "holocaust" in a generic term. 9-11 and the Middle East conflicts are still recent enough for people to associate Arabic words with Islamist violence.

I'm fairly sure a t-shirt saying "Blitzkrieg London" wouldn't be received very well, even if there were a good reason for it.

I'm fairly sure a t-shirt saying "Blitzkrieg London" wouldn't be received very well, even if there were a good reason for it.

I've seen people wearing a "Hitler/Germany World Tour" T-Shirt and I've never heard any uproar about those.

Yet today there's no strong stigma attached to words like "blitzkrieg" or "inquisition." Sometimes people even use "holocaust" in a generic term. 9-11 and the Middle East conflicts are still recent enough for people to associate Arabic words with Islamist violence.

that's because those conficts are still going on.

and yes, sad but true, the common usage of a word can change it's meaning.

Fag orignally was a bundle of sticks used for burining, but if you were to say, "Bring that fag over here" and gesture to where a person is standing next to a bundle of sticks, what meaning would the common person think you were using?

and yes, sad but true, the common usage of a word can change it's meaning.
Reminds me of the tabloid doublethink over the meaninfg of political correctness.

here's a question. how is "Intifada" used?

so it means shaking off? is that "physically removing though violent motion" (the dog dried itself off by shaking off the water)? or "to move on, to make insignificant" (the Rugby player walked around, shaking off his pain, so he could play)?

either way, I can see how some people will be upset with "Shaking off" New York City even if going with the literal meaning.

But does that mean they can't wear the shirts? no. nor should they apologize for those shirts.

I've seen people wearing a "Hitler/Germany World Tour" T-Shirt and I've never heard any uproar about those.

There would be if a German teacher wore one.

There would be if a German teacher wore one.

In Germany where there's laws against Nazi references sure, but elsewhere in the West? Doubt it.

I am opposed to religious or otherwise sectarian schools on the whole, but this principal strikes me as quite stupid. What the hell did she think was gonna happen when she used a word like "intifada", especially in a country as insular and parochially provincial as the USA?
Ugh. Yeah. Well put. Anyone wanna host an American in need of a new home country?

How stupid is that principal? Regardless of what the word actually means, it has extremely negative connotations. Like "blitzkrieg".

When in fact its the equivalent of "war of independence".....

In Germany where there's laws against Nazi references sure, but elsewhere in the West? Doubt it.
Austria, I thinks, and a few other a against holocaust denial.

So, if the shirts aren't supposed to be an expression of violence, what are they supposed to represent?

I doubt a "Nathan Bedford Forrest: American Patriot" T-shirt would go down well either. Despite the common misconceptions about him.

Of course, Gauthier is not really for freedom of expression at all. He/she is only for the right of muslims to express islam as he/she sees it. There is no concept of actual freedom of expression inherent in her/his anger.

Also, I predict accusations of "Islamophobia" - like that's even a real word :rolleyes: - and some form of minstrelsy will soon follow.

I'm fairly sure a t-shirt saying "Blitzkrieg London" wouldn't be received very well, even if there were a good reason for it.

Did Germany even use the blitzkrieg on London?

Did Germany even use the blitzkrieg on London?

Please tell me you're in jest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/7/newsid_3515000/3515708.stm

Did Germany even use the blitzkrieg on London?

No.

Please tell me you're in jest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/7/newsid_3515000/3515708.stm

London Blitz != Blitzkreig.

London Blitz != Blitzkreig.


The start of what came to be called the London Blitz - from Blitzkrieg, or "lightning war" - marked a change of strategy by the German leader, Adolf Hitler.

:confused: It seems a lot of people are calling what happened in London also a Blitzkrieg, so I'm confused.

http://www.londontown.com/LondonEvents/BlitzkriegatTowerBridge/9a2eb

http://hnn.us/blogs/entries/40089.html

http://www.allposters.de/-sp/St-Pauls-Kathedrale-waehrend-dem-Blitzkrieg-in-London-1940-Poster_i1099868_.htm

http://museum.woolworths.co.uk/1940s-blitzkrieg.htm

Yet today there's no strong stigma attached to words like "blitzkrieg" or "inquisition."

Indeed, the word crusade is often given a fairly strongly positive connotation!

:confused:

Yah. It is confusing, but blitzkrieg is an operational doctrine involving heavy bombardment followed by rapid deployment of highly mobile mechanized land forces to exploit the opportunities created - thereby overcoming the stalemate created by trench warfare or linear deployment. So to say that london suffered blitzkrieg is incorrect because there wasn't any operational plan to take territory caused by the disruption. Calling it the blitz was just propaganda. After all it sounds better than 'terror bombing'.

Please tell me you're in jest.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/7/newsid_3515000/3515708.stm

I know about what Germany did to London, but I wasn't sure if it qualified as the blitzkrieg.

Since nobody's done it yet: Intifada! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL1kmwb5kGs) Viva Palestina libre!

But on topic: I'm confused. Why would it not be acceptable to support a people's right and fight for sovereignty? Would it be better with a tshirt that read "Bend over an' lemme rape yo ass some" or what?

Yah. It is confusing, but blitzkrieg is an operational doctrine involving heavy bombardment followed by rapid deployment of highly mobile mechanized land forces to exploit the opportunities created - thereby overcoming the stalemate created by trench warfare or linear deployment. So to say that london suffered blitzkrieg is incorrect because there wasn't any operational plan to take territory caused by the disruption. Calling it the blitz was just propaganda. After all it sounds better than 'terror bombing'.

In that case, apparently a lot of people are mistaken -- including official London tourist boards, museums, and, apparently, a German website selling posters of the event.

I see what you mean though -- if they'd swept their tanks into London, then it would have qualified as a Blitzkrieg?

I always thought that the swift movement to occupy France was called The Blitzkrieg! while any fast, overwhelming battle would qualify as a blitzkrieg.

Just like there are many crusades, but if you reference something as The Crusades, it specifies one period in time.

Same with inquisitions. you can have many inquisitions, but when someone says The Inquisition...

I see what you mean though -- if they'd swept their tanks into London, then it would have qualified as a Blitzkrieg?

Yes.

You'd think they would have taken in to account the possibility that something like this could be taken in a negative context. I mean, that would be like a group printing T-shirts that say "Crusade Mecca" in order to protest the oppression of women and religious minorities in Saudi Arabia.

It's just not a good idea, because it's easy to misunderstand even if your intentions are noble.

Of course, Gauthier is not really for freedom of expression at all. He/she is only for the right of muslims to express islam as he/she sees it. There is no concept of actual freedom of expression inherent in her/his anger.

Also, I predict accusations of "Islamophobia" - like that's even a real word :rolleyes: - and some form of minstrelsy will soon follow.

What has an Arabic word referring to an ongoing rebellion go to do with "Islam"? There are christian Palestinians, secular palestinians, Shia and Sunni Palestinians and even more factions within those....Get the "hive mind" out of yours, seriously.

I doubt a "Nathan Bedford Forrest: American Patriot" T-shirt would go down well either. Despite the common misconceptions about him.

Lauding Nathan Bedford Forrest is not comparable with the word "intifada."


Of course, Gauthier is not really for freedom of expression at all. He/she is only for the right of muslims to express islam as he/she sees it.

Oh, right. It's all part of the Islamic conspiracy.


Also, I predict accusations of "Islamophobia" - like that's even a real word

Good prediction - perpetuate your bigotry towards Muslims (this isn't even a Muslim issue), and people might accuse you of being a bigot towards Muslims!

I predict that if I punch someone in the nose, I'll get accused of being slightly violent!

Nostradamus, step over!

I'm sure this was a good idea - getting rid of the female in charge of a Arabic culture school. I can foresee the future of that school going well now.

I'm sure this was a good idea - getting rid of the female in charge of a Arabic culture school. I can foresee the future of that school going well now.

Isn't teaching 'women's work'?

Lauding Nathan Bedford Forrest is not comparable with the word "intifada."



You are a muslim, so of course you wouldn't see the comparison.

You are a muslim, so of course you wouldn't see the comparison.What kind of comparison is there to be made? Intifada is struggle against oppression. Nathan Bedford Forrest fought for the exact opposite.

What kind of comparison is there to be made? Intifada is struggle against oppression. Nathan Bedford Forrest fought for the exact opposite.

Did you ask Nathan that? I'm pretty sure that he thought he was fighting against oppression. Likewise those who struggle for Intifada.

Both are disgusting however.

Did you ask Nathan that?I may be a grown man, but I'm not that old... Bloody upstart :p I'm pretty sure that he thought he was fighting against oppression.I wouldn't speculate, though I'll grant you it doesn't strike me as wholly impossible the KKK granddaddy somehow convinced himself that slavery is freedom.Both are disgusting however.Why is it disgusting to fight oppression?

I wouldn't speculate, though I'll grant you it doesn't strike me as wholly impossible the KKK granddaddy somehow convinced himself that slavery is freedom.

Or more likely rationalized it as fighting to preserve "The Southern Way of Life" of which slave labor was a major component.

Why is it disgusting to fight oppression?

Crackadaemon finds Muslims doing anything other than bending over and dying to be disgusting.

You are a muslim, so of course you wouldn't see the comparison.

No, I don't see the comparison because I have this thing I do, called "thinking."

I'm not a Muslim either, but even if I was this pathetic response of yours is nothing but an ad hominen.

Your paranoid bigotry is showing.

I may be a grown man, but I'm not that old... Bloody upstart :p I wouldn't speculate, though I'll grant you it doesn't strike me as wholly impossible the KKK granddaddy somehow convinced himself that slavery is freedom.Why is it disgusting to fight oppression?

Well I don't think that nathan though that he was fighting for slavery. I think he thought he was fighting for his "rats", so to speak.

And both are disgusting because behind the masquerade of fighting oppression, what they really are fighting for is the position to be oppressors.

Or more likely rationalized it as fighting to preserve "The Southern Way of Life" of which slave labor was a major component.Whatever the case, my point was it doesn't matter that some idiot points at the blue sky and proclaims it's black and wearing a pink tutu. The sky becomes no less blue for his efforts, just like some dead racist general doesn't become a hero of the liberation just because he had a major fucking malfunction upstairs.Crackadaemon finds Muslims doing anything other than bending over and dying to be disgusting.People sometimes think they have good reasons for such articles of faith. On my more humanistic days, I'll try to examine those beliefs, rather than just screaming "Useless racist scum!" at the top of my lungs.Well I don't think that nathan though that he was fighting for slavery. I think he thought he was fighting for his "rats", so to speak.See above.And both are disgusting because behind the masquerade of fighting oppression, what they really are fighting for is the position to be oppressors.Virtually none of the intifada is anarchist, and while I agree that's too damn bad, I fail to see how it makes it disgusting for a people to try to shake off the military oppression of a foreign power.

Virtually none of the intifada is anarchist, and while I agree that's too damn bad, I fail to see how it makes it disgusting for a people to try to shake off the military oppression of a foreign power.

Because fighting to shake off one type of state oppression to replace it with an even worse one is a bad choice.

There are no good muslim countries. It sucks, but there it is. Hell, the few moderate muslims that exist fight for the IDF.

Crackadaemon finds Muslims doing anything other than bending over and dying to be disgusting.

No, I just want them to adapt to secular society. Which they blatantly refuse to do.

Anyway, you are a conservative muslim, so your opinion is irrelevant.

No, I just want them to adapt to secular society. Which they blatantly refuse to do.

And given by your past postings, I call BULLSHIT on that explanation.

Anyway, you are a conservative muslim, so your opinion is irrelevant.

And it just goes to show how little you know about people. Because Greater Trostia and I don't agree with your little world view on Muslims all of a sudden we're Muslims?

Joe McCarthy at least tried to not scream "COMMIE!!" every time someone didn't bend over for him.

Perhaps t-shirts aren't covered under freedom of expression........

I don't see anything about her being arrested for wearing it, so it would seem freedom of speech issues do not apply here.

And of course it's sill to assume the mantle of freedom of speech allows you to keep your job despite what you say. Just ask Imus.

Now whether or not she SHOULD have been fired over it is another issue, but the idea that somehow this falls under the framework of "freedom of speech" is silly.

And it just goes to show how little you know about people. Because Greater Trostia and I don't agree with your little world view on Muslims all of a sudden we're Muslims?


Go on then, if you are not a muslim, post something blasphemous. Try saying something like allah is not god, and muhammed was a troglodyte pedophile.

Jesus was gay, not god, and enjoyed it up the ass.

Go on then, if you are not a muslim, post something blasphemous. Try saying something like allah is not god, and muhammed was a troglodyte pedophile.

Jesus was gay, not god, and enjoyed it up the ass.

So we have to prove we're not members of a particular religion by going out of our way to make pure asshole statements about it? That's the same disingenous bullshit mindset that came up with "If They Don't Condemn It Out Loud They Condone It."

And don't pretend you're an athiest. You've proven yourself to be just another Muslim-bashing wanker like Deep Kimchi and New Mitanni.

:upyours:

So we have to prove we're not members of a particular religion by going out of our way to make pure asshole statements about it? That's the same disingenous bullshit mindset that came up with "If They Don't Condemn It Out Loud They Condone It."

And don't pretend you're an athiest. You've proven yourself to be just another Muslim-bashing wanker like Deep Kimchi and New Mitanni.

:upyours:

So you are a muslim. Just admit it. There is no shame in that - well except for the baggage it holds.

And yes, I am an atheist. For the millionth time I am an atheist. I understand you want to chop my head off for that because of your muslim thingy, so it's easier to pretend that I am not. But there it is.

Isn't teaching 'women's work'?

Not from what one young Albanian man told me. He told me I was only a woman and he didn't have to listen to me or do what I asked, in front of my whole class.

I then reminded him in that very same forum that I might be a woman, but I was the woman whose pen was writing his grade -- so he might choose to actually do the assignments and at least pretend to respect me if he expected to pass.

No problems with not doing the work after that.

So you are a muslim. Just admit it. There is no shame in that - well except for the baggage it holds.

And yes, I am an atheist. For the millionth time I am an atheist. I understand you want to chop my head off for that because of your muslim thingy, so it's easier to pretend that I am not. But there it is.

No. Muslims aren't afraid of admitting if they are. I'm not a Muslim. I like ham a little too much. You're just being a jackass par for the course accusing everyone who doesn't subscribe to your "All Muslims Are Evil And Must Be Destroyed" ideology of being a Muslim.

And even if I were a Muslim, why the fuck should I give a shit about what happens to you? Again don't give me this "I'm an Atheist" bullshit. You've devoted all your bitter piss rants and minstrelsy for Islam and Muslims alone. You're a full fledged member of the Kimchiteers Club.

Not an atheist.

:rolleyes:

So you are a muslim. Just admit it. There is no shame in that - well except for the baggage it holds.

And yes, I am an atheist. For the millionth time I am an atheist. I understand you want to chop my head off for that because of your muslim thingy, so it's easier to pretend that I am not. But there it is.

That's way crossing the line.

Have a day's vacation.

Go on then, if you are not a muslim, post something blasphemous. Try saying something like allah is not god, and muhammed was a troglodyte pedophile.

Jesus was gay, not god, and enjoyed it up the ass.

I love how you don't have to prove your accusations that anyone who disagrees with your bigotry is a Muslim, but those you accuse have to prove that we're not. It's very McCarthy-esque, with the exception that he had power and influence and you don't.

Because fighting to shake off one type of state oppression to replace it with an even worse one is a bad choice.

There are no good muslim countries. It sucks, but there it is. Hell, the few moderate muslims that exist fight for the IDF.

More nonsense.......Secular Arabs fight against the occupation, christian Arabs fight against the occupation, socialist and communist Arabs fight against the occupation. Its perfectly justified armed resistance against a semi-apartheid state and colonialism.


No, I just want them to adapt to secular society. Which they blatantly refuse to do.

Anyway, you are a conservative muslim, so your opinion is irrelevant.
.

He's not a muslim, nor am I. Nor does being of a certain sect mean that an opinion is irrelevant. For instance your opinion is irrelevant, not because it emanates from an athiest, but because its untrue, and fuelled by some hatred of muslims and/or Arabs, rather than the facts.