NationStates Jolt Archive

Spiegel just put this (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,499154,00.html)...well, monumental article online. It's eight pages, so set aside a few minutes. The reporter's been to Iraq plenty of times and this time spent three weeks there travelling around, trying to get his head around what's going on.

Do you think it tells the full story, or something close to it? If not, what do you think the full story really is?

And if the picture he paints is accurate, if there are parts of Iraq in which the Americans and Iraqis are in fact "winning" and other parts in which there is no realistic expectation of success, and if the political process in Iraq indeed isn't about to become more than a pointless waste of time...then what's the implication of that?

I mean, leaving would leave a lot of people at the mercy of those who are least scrupulous. Staying would keep the peaceful areas intact, but would essentially mean an open-ended stay in the bad parts as well, with all the casualties and sacrifices that brings. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I suppose.

Do you think it tells the full story, or something close to it? If not, what do you think the full story really is?

I think the full story is far to complicated to boil down to a news article.

However, this article is interesting to me because I lived in the North Palace in Ramadi for 8 months. It certainly seems to be different now.

it cant possibly tell the full story. at best, the reporter has told an honest account of what he has seen. which is very important.

i clicked on the link and ill read it after a while. thanks for posting it.

However, this article is interesting to me because I lived in the North Palace in Ramadi for 8 months. It certainly seems to be different now.
Seems like it. I suppose it makes sense that there are some parts of the country where things work out somewhat okay, and others (like Baghdad) where chaos rules and one can't reasonably expect change.

Though if that's true, I have no idea whether or not to support a withdrawal from Iraq. It certainly seems unfair to a lot of people who need the Americans there to at least maintain some sort of status quo.

Though if that's true, I have no idea whether or not to support a withdrawal from Iraq. It certainly seems unfair to a lot of people who need the Americans there to at least maintain some sort of status quo.

Thanks for the link. I haven't gotten around to reading it yet, but I will. Before I do that, however, I'll say that I have the same uncertain view that you have... I don't know if I should support or oppose a withdrawal either, but I'm inclined to oppose it.

Reads like Bushevik propoganda (to be fair, I only read pages 1 and 8, because I'm running off to a game of D&D in 10 minutes), in my opinion. His tired talking point of "pacified regions" shows a basic and complete lack of understanding. We aren't fighting to pacify the countryside. The countryside just doesn't matter, right now. We're losing in Baghdad. We're not losing in the culturally homogenous countryside, where the people are of one sect or another: we're losing in the large cities where different sects live (or rather don't) together. The countryside is incidental.

Of course, never mind that none (read again none) of the political benchmarks set for progress in Iraq have made. Never mind that the Iraqi Cabinet is shedding members like a cat in May. Never mind that the "lowest" casualties of last month were higher than most in the previous year. Never mind that our army is stretched thin, exhausted, and the Busheviks have even introduced talking points about a fucking Draft (and, worse, the dipshit Liberal assholes and so-called progressives are fucking buying in on a Draft. Figures, most of them are too old to fucking go.). Be ready to see more nonsense about Iraq, the Busheviks are desperate to get more money in September, and they need talking points. They've lied to us through the media before, and they'll do it again, no matter which media corporation they use.

Reads like Bushevik propoganda (to be fair, I only read pages 1 and 8, because I'm running off to a game of D&D in 10 minutes), in my opinion.
Then I suggest you read the other ones as well.