NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think so? Continuing with tonight's theme... :p

I thought I'd post a poll, asking the exact question that the NPD group asked in 1985, and again in 2005, which I think is significant. An explanation:

As is widely reported, today most Americans are overweight [62% of adults have a body mass index (BMI) over 25], according to NPD’s latest research. So it is not surprising that many Americans are interested in losing weight. In its latest survey, NPD found that over 60 percent of Americans agreed with the statement, “I would like to lose 20 pounds.”

What may be more surprising is that while Americans are getting heavier and many are battling extra weight, people have also grown more tolerant of their condition. In 1985, NPD found that 55 percent of adults agreed with the statement, “A person who is not overweight is a lot more attractive.” During the 2005 survey, NPD reveals that this number has dropped to only 24 percent of people who agree with that statement.

“Perhaps Americans have found that the easiest way to deal with their weight is to change their attitude…and buy bigger clothes,” said Balzer. [VP of NPD]


http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_060102.html

So, what do you think? Does being overweight make a person less attractive to you than if they were a 'proper' weight? Now, individuals will each wear their excess flesh a bit differently, and some better than others. But it appears that I would be in an extreme minority to suggest that being overweight in general makes a person less attractive.

So I'll post the identical question NPD asked each time, and anyone who likes can vote their opinion, along with, if you like, an explanation of why you voted that way. At any rate, we'll get to see how our results compare to a large study by a respectable corporation that probably cost millions to conduct, only *without* spending a small fortune, of course. :p

except for those who are at the extremes of fat or thin, size has little to do with attractiveness. there are just too many other factors to take into consideration.

I am attracted to someone that is in good shape. I don't care for the skinny waif look or the obese one. As far as people in general I don't really give any different treatment to someone based on their weight.

except for those who are at the extremes of fat or thin, size has little to do with attractiveness. there are just too many other factors to take into consideration.

That seems to be the general opinion today. Now, how that went from a minority opinion to a large majority one in only two decades, is the question. :p

That seems to be the general opinion today. Now, how that went from a minority opinion to a large majority one in only two decades, is the question. :p

I think that probably has been the opinion over most of human history.


Remember the 80's had the kickoff of the exercise fads. That has much to do with what people were thinking was attractive then and in the 90's. There was non-stop media regarding exercise and weight issues at the time.

That seems to be the general opinion today. Now, how that went from a minority opinion to a large majority one in only two decades, is the question. :p

isnt it obvious?

the average person is attracted to the average person. if "everyone" is somewhat overweight, then somewhat overweight tends to be attractive.

I think that probably has been the opinion over most of human history.


Remember the 80's had the kickoff of the exercise fads. That has much to do with what people were thinking was attractive then and in the 90's. There was non-stop media regarding exercise and weight issues at the time.

yeah. for most of history an athletic woman with nicely toned muscles was considered freakish, manly, and unattractive.

now its sexy.

There are some fat people who are attractive, but I certainly wouldn't generally consider it a merit.

isnt it obvious?

the average person is attracted to the average person. if "everyone" is somewhat overweight, then somewhat overweight tends to be attractive.

Well, that's NPD's theory, yeah. It's very true that people are getting heavier, and a recent study that found fat to be 'socially contagious' backs it up, but I'd still think a larger group would agree that being overweight isn't "good" exactly, even if they aren't particularly bothered by it. That doesn't mean refusing to date anyone who doesn't have an ideal body-mass ratio (or whatever it's called) but rather simply seeing a healthy weight as being more attractive.

Well, that's NPD's theory, yeah. It's very true that people are getting heavier, and a recent study that found fat to be 'socially contagious' backs it up, but I'd still think a larger group would agree that being overweight isn't "good" exactly, even if they aren't particularly bothered by it. That doesn't mean refusing to date anyone who doesn't have an ideal body-mass ratio (or whatever it's called) but rather simply seeing a healthy weight as being more attractive.

well that depends on how many healthy weight people we see. if we see mostly overweight, we like it.

on TV we see mostly underweight. some of the women are freakishly thin. *shudder*

but "overweight" doesnt mean that anyone is drooling over the 400lb woman. it means that we have come to prefer the plump girl over the thin girl.

Fat people are mad ugly, yo. *ghetto*

Fat people are mad ugly, yo. *ghetto*

Yeh? Ghettos tend to be full of them - you'd think that'd be hog-heaven for fat pride. :p

I actually know a fat woman who is beautiful, she really is, so not all fat people are ugly.

I was gonna say something beneficial to the conversation, but I forgot what I was going to say.



...


Ah! Now I remember. I think of fat-thin as a spectrum. Here is my spectrum \/

Fat - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Skinny

Now here is the spectrum again, with my preference \/ (marked by "+")

Fat - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Skinny

Sans Amour's Opinion:

I think it is possible to be attractive despite being overweight. Attractiveness isn't physical completely. Look at Mo'nique, the Glamazons, and America Ferrera! They are beautiful and they aren't as thin as your normal celeb. And yes, I find them each attractive personality- wise and physically.

Thin people are creepy.

I agree that overweight people are unattractive.

Mmm, yeah. Overweight people are generally unattractive. But so are stick figure girls. Need to find that lovely balance.

Skinny women are ugly. Skinny men are okay. But dem girls 'as gots to be plump! Plump a' say!

I'm suprised no one posted this yet! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybfLRFacF-c)

I'm suprised no one posted this yet! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybfLRFacF-c)

So you're saying overweight is fine, so long as it's all in the right places ?

So you're saying overweight is fine, so long as it's all in the right places ?

Apparently. :p

Also, it's interesting so far that the poll has been just the opposite than the one done by NPD. Probably on account of the preponderance of young people here, with more demanding tastes. :p

I personally couldn't give a damn less what a girl looks like as long as she's not hugely obese or anorexic looking. To me it has more to do with personality than looks.

Most people, generally, are attracted to those who are healthily slim and in general good health. Why? Simple. We're attracted to potential mates, and the healthier they appear, the healthier children they could create.

Of course, as sentient beings we have the capability to see around this instinct, but not many choose to utilize their sentience in this manner.

Most people, generally, are attracted to those who are healthily slim and in general good health. Why? Simple. We're attracted to potential mates, and the healthier they appear, the healthier children they could create.

Of course, as sentient beings we have the capability to see around this instinct, but not many choose to utilize their sentience in this manner.

That's probably true, although 'sentient' is the wrong word. We all have ideals, but we know when to compromise, for the most part, I should think. :p

that is a cultural bias and a nonsensical one.

SOME fat people are ugly. SOME ugly people are fat.
fat itself is NOT ugly, other then in really absurd extremes.

ten pounds overweight, even 20 to 50, depending on other factors, can even be more attractive then so called 'ideal' weight.

now if someone four foot zero, weighed more then 650 pounds, then i might seriously consider that an ugly degree of fatness, but less then a hundred pounds over on someone taller then five feet, come on, you've got to be kidding.

=^^=
.../\...

I like a woman with a little extra padding in the right places. Skin and bones is not for me. I like a woman to actually have hips and breasts, and I have never found the six-pack stomach to be alluring.

I however like to be lean. I do not understand how so many men can let themselves go, and be happy with having a big round belly.

As a fat person, I take great offense at that statement. The only person who is allowed to call me ugly is me. :p

its a difficult question... and a bit of a sweeping generalisation as has been pointed out.

my girlfriend (who i love very much :fluffle: ) has a couple of extra pounds on her. however this does not make her ugly at all - she is beautiful and very attractive :) i guess that being a bit slimmer would, to me, make her a little more attractive, that's all. so its not the negative association as per the OP's title, to me

*hugs & love to my amy*

Well, I actually have a fairly generous range of "acceptable" body types, ranging from moderately underweight to moderately overweight. I still think that most women would look better with a leaner body type, but I will - and have - dated girls that many would classify as overweight. Primarily, however, I'm attracted to athletic women.

Of course, there is a line between having an extra 10 kilos or so and being obese. I think that by the time you've got a BMI of 35 or so, your appearance is the least of your worries and you should worry more about your health.

Obviously, obese (excessively overweight) people are unattractive. They don't look healthy.

There have been quite a few famous fat people throughout history, though.

Define overweight... the definition varies wildly.

I am a bit overweight, but i can't stand being skinny, i have been and i deliberately gained weight cause i didn't like seeing my ribs (i went a lil overboard though...). My personal taste is if i see bones i run...

Sucky relation poll question -> thread title. But anyhow..

.. no, I wouldn't say "Fat people are ugly", as I've been proven the contrary times enough, just as I have seen many, many non-overweight ugliness.

As for the poll question, I'm not sure whether I understand it correctly. If it means, as I originally took it, "Do you think one person would, on average, look more attractive if they lost enough weight so that they wouldn't be overweight anymore?", then I'd probbaly answer "yes" (as, incidentally, I did in the poll).

Now, if it is taken to mean "Do you think that non-overweight people in general look more attractive than overweight people?", as I gathered from the discussion that many people in this thread took it to mean, then I guess I'd still be on the "yes" side if I had to pick one side, but much less decisively so.

If we exclude "skinny" from the non-overweight class (i.e. make it the "healthy" rather than the ambiguous "non-overweight" class which tends to have a lot of unhealthily skinny included and a lot of perfectly healthy non-skinny people excluded); I think very few people would deny that one singular person would look more attractive if they lost enough weight to fall into the non-overweight, healthy class.

In fact, I think most answers to the negative stem from an angst to "discriminate" or "fall victim to the capitalizt domination of our model-formed views on what is good-looking" and somesuch crap, or the fear to be taken as saying "Fat people can't be loveable" when all one says is "they'd be physically more attractive if they lost weight".

It's a wonder how people still think racism is curable after reading this topic :D

Sorry fatties, but if you're overweight, you're as good as a dog. It's not a universal rule, but it's certainly close to it.

Define overweight... the definition varies wildly.

I think they mean a BMI over 25, which is generally when people start to look chubby. Anything below that but above 18.5ish, is the normal weight, going from "thin" people to "healthy weight people" (the ones who have noticable fat on them, but their figure does not change because of it).

I think they mean a BMI over 25, which is generally when people start to look chubby. Anything below that but above 18.5ish, is the normal weight, going from "thin" people to "healthy weight people" (the ones who have noticable fat on them, but their figure does not change because of it).If we're going by BMI then, no, not at all. Mostly because the BMI is a load of crap. A pair of eyes are a better tool to measure someone's weight and whether it's normal than the BMI.

Bmi = Bs

If we're going by BMI then, no, not at all. Mostly because the BMI is a load of crap. A pair of eyes are a better tool to measure someone's weight and whether it's normal than the BMI.

It's not that bad, there is alot of truth in it, but yes, it doesn't take many aspects of the body into account.

It's not that bad, there is alot of truth in it, but yes, it doesn't take many aspects of the body into account.All it does is compare body mass to height squared.

A doctor is able to simply look at a person and gauge is someone is a bit overweight or underweight, they don't need the BMI. And after that they use other tests to determine the reason for the extra mass or lack of. It some cases it's just simple fluid retention.

I think they mean a BMI over 25, which is generally when people start to look chubby. Anything below that but above 18.5ish, is the normal weight, going from "thin" people to "healthy weight people" (the ones who have noticable fat on them, but their figure does not change because of it).

That's the article's definition, so I'd use that for the purpose of the poll. 25 or under. It's probably not perfect, but it works for the most part. :)

That's the article's definition, so I'd use that for the purpose of the poll. 25 or under. It's probably not perfect, but it works for the most part. :)People over 25 are just fine.

All it does is compare body mass to height squared.

A doctor is able to simply look at a person and gauge is someone is a bit overweight or underweight, they don't need the BMI. And after that they use other tests to determine the reason for the extra mass or lack of. It some cases it's just simple fluid retention.

If you're bulky because you're muscular, I don't think you'd consider yourself overweight in any case. ;) If you're over 25 without muscle, I'd say you'd better hope they find a waterbed under your coat, because I don't think a person can retain *that* much fluid. :p

People over 25 are just fine.

Okay then. Everyone has their own standard - that's what this thread is about, after all. :)

All it does is compare body mass to height squared.

A doctor is able to simply look at a person and gauge is someone is a bit overweight or underweight, they don't need the BMI. And after that they use other tests to determine the reason for the extra mass or lack of. It some cases it's just simple fluid retention.

How does that help the definition for this poll though?

Fair enough, doctors don't use BMI and it's not surprising. However when your talking to someone via phone, email etc. BMI is a good start on them getting an image of your fat levels (most people dont know their fat %). For stats it's even more helpful.

Other than convinience though, it doesn't have much benefit.

BMI is to obesity, what IQ is to intelligence.

How does that help the definition for this poll though?

Fair enough, doctors don't use BMI and it's not surprising. However when your talking to someone via phone, email etc. BMI is a good start on them getting an image of your fat levels (most people dont know their fat %). For stats it's even more helpful.

Other than convinience though, it doesn't have much benefit.

BMI is to obesity, what IQ is to intelligence.Or how about using the phrases like 'I'm a little plump around the waist' or 'most of weight is on my butt' etc...

For what I mean by overweight. I tend not to use the term. It's not really an issue with me unless that person is clinically obese. Most important thing is if people are comfortable with their weight. People who think they're overweight tend to look it and vice versa.

Sucky relation poll question -> thread title. But anyhow..

.. no, I wouldn't say "Fat people are ugly", as I've been proven the contrary times enough, just as I have seen many, many non-overweight ugliness.

As for the poll question, I'm not sure whether I understand it correctly. If it means, as I originally took it, "Do you think one person would, on average, look more attractive if they lost enough weight so that they wouldn't be overweight anymore?", then I'd probbaly answer "yes" (as, incidentally, I did in the poll).

Now, if it is taken to mean "Do you think that non-overweight people in general look more attractive than overweight people?", as I gathered from the discussion that many people in this thread took it to mean, then I guess I'd still be on the "yes" side if I had to pick one side, but much less decisively so.

If we exclude "skinny" from the non-overweight class (i.e. make it the "healthy" rather than the ambiguous "non-overweight" class which tends to have a lot of unhealthily skinny included and a lot of perfectly healthy non-skinny people excluded); I think very few people would deny that one singular person would look more attractive if they lost enough weight to fall into the non-overweight, healthy class.

In fact, I think most answers to the negative stem from an angst to "discriminate" or "fall victim to the capitalizt domination of our model-formed views on what is good-looking" and somesuch crap, or the fear to be taken as saying "Fat people can't be loveable" when all one says is "they'd be physically more attractive if they lost weight".

QFT

I would generally agree that morbid obesity isn't attractive, at least, but not that overweight is necessarily ugly.

Or how about using the phrases like 'I'm a little plump around the waist' or 'most of weight is on my butt' etc...

For what I mean by overweight. I tend not to use the term. It's not really an issue with me unless that person is clinically obese. Most important thing is if people are comfortable with their weight. People who think they're overweight tend to look it and vice versa.

I would guess that:

It takes too long.

People lie about that kind of stuff more, and often lie to themselves about it.

There are no specifics like numbers involved.

Conjecture, but BMI is used instead of that kind of stuff so there's probably a good reason.

Do you think so? Continuing with tonight's theme... :p

I thought I'd post a poll, asking the exact question that the NPD group asked in 1985, and again in 2005, which I think is significant. An explanation:



http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_060102.html

So, what do you think? Does being overweight make a person less attractive to you than if they were a 'proper' weight? Now, individuals will each wear their excess flesh a bit differently, and some better than others. But it appears that I would be in an extreme minority to suggest that being overweight in general makes a person less attractive.

So I'll post the identical question NPD asked each time, and anyone who likes can vote their opinion, along with, if you like, an explanation of why you voted that way. At any rate, we'll get to see how our results compare to a large study by a respectable corporation that probably cost millions to conduct, only *without* spending a small fortune, of course. :p

It depensd on how the excess flesh fits them. I mean, if they're like a natural tank, it's not so bad, but if they have these huge distended bellies and everything else is 'normal', that's not good.

I would generally agree that morbid obesity isn't attractive, at least, but not that overweight is necessarily ugly.

If we leave out the extremes of ugly, what is more attractive?

If personality, and all other factors were the same, which would people find more attractive:

This:
http://www.rooshv.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fat-brazilian-woman.jpg

Or this:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/alba.jpg

Well in some parts of the world being fat is considered attractive, for example this story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6904640.stm
about fattening rooms in the Calabar would suggest there is a large cultural component in attitudes to peoples weight.

Well in some parts of the world being fat is considered attractive, for example this story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6904640.stm
about fattening rooms in the Calabar would suggest there is a large cultural component in attitudes to peoples weight.

Most of us don't live in a time and place where Boucher's women would be considered by many to be attractive.

Back in those days, a fat woman was considered fertile (and there's some medical truth to the idea that some body fat is associated with fertility).

Nowadays, we're all told not only that fat is unattractive, but that fat is dangerous, fat is unhealthy, fat means you get exhausted during sex very quickly, fat is uncomfortable, fat is bad - bad - bad.

Not just one message about fat - but many.

The message is overdone these days - to the point where a lot of women intentionally starve themselves.

But it doesn't change the fact that in our current culture, with all other things being equal, most people would pick the second woman in my previous post as being more attractive, and most people would pick the first woman in my previous post as being less attractive.

While I do not think fatness or being obese is attractive, I do not think that merely because you are fat automatically means you're ugly.

Being fat doesn't necessarily make you unattractive... nor does being skinny.

But of course, if a girl is naturally very thin, she must be an anorexic whore :rolleyes:

Being fat doesn't necessarily make you unattractive... nor does being skinny.

But of course, if a girl is naturally very thin, she must be an anorexic whore :rolleyes:

Do I sense a little defensiveness. . .:p;)


I like 'em kinda muscle-y. Strong willed, usually. Not a fan of plump.

Do I sense a little defensiveness. . .:p;)


I like 'em kinda muscle-y. Strong willed, usually. Not a fan of plump.

It seems that the more and more society tells people to worship anorexics, the more and more people hate those who are skinny without anorexia. So sorry if I might sound just a tad defensive...

"Fat People Are Ugly. What do you think?"
Yes, but....Part of me wonders what it would be like to do a fat girl.

Who's with me on this?

It seems that the more and more society tells people to worship anorexics, the more and more people hate those who are skinny without anorexia. So sorry if I might sound just a tad defensive...

Eh. I don't.

Fergi America;12953303']Thin people are creepy.
I'm not creepy.

I just play sports, bike everywhere and eat sensibly instead of sitting on my ass all day, driving easily walkable distances and eating crap.

I voted that overweight people are less attractive than one who is average. I don't think that all fat people are ugly, but generally, people who are definitely overweight don't look quite as good as people who are healthy. I also think that it should be relatively easy to lose excess weight, but people are lazy bastards.

I'm not creepy.

I just play sports, bike everywhere and eat sensibly instead of sitting on my ass all day, driving easily walkable distances and eating crap.

I voted that overweight people are less attractive than one who is average. I don't think that all fat people are ugly, but generally, people who are definitely overweight don't look quite as good as people who are healthy. I also think that it should be relatively easy to lose excess weight, but people are lazy bastards.

Not to mention that the extra weight is as dangerous to health as smoking.

Being unhealthy is being unhealthy. Who wants to enter a long term relationship with someone who is going to die an early death?

"Skinny women are ugly"
"but hey, 100 pounds on someone over five feet tall?"

Thanks, guys. For people who supposedly see beauty in all body types, you do it at the expense of women and girls who are thin WITHOUT eating disorders.

So thanks, shallow-minded idiots of NSG, for making me feel even more ugly because of my weight, and not having the intelligence to realize that not all of us skinny girls have eating disorders... considering, you know, that I actually do eat.

And you wonder why I'm so defensive right now.

that is a cultural bias and a nonsensical one.

SOME fat people are ugly. SOME ugly people are fat.
fat itself is NOT ugly, other then in really absurd extremes.

ten pounds overweight, even 20 to 50, depending on other factors, can even be more attractive then so called 'ideal' weight.

now if someone four foot zero, weighed more then 650 pounds, then i might seriously consider that an ugly degree of fatness, but less then a hundred pounds over on someone taller then five feet, come on, you've got to be kidding.

I know I'm quite thin, thanks, but did you have to call me ugly in the process?

"Skinny women are ugly"
"but hey, 100 pounds on someone over five feet tall?"

Thanks, guys. For people who supposedly see beauty in all body types, you do it at the expense of women and girls who are thin WITHOUT eating disorders.

So thanks, shallow-minded idiots of NSG, for making me feel even more ugly because of my weight, and not having the intelligence to realize that not all of us skinny girls have eating disorders... considering, you know, that I actually do eat.

And you wonder why I'm so defensive right now.

I was kidding. :(

I was kidding. :(

Sorry Fleck... your post looked like you didn't understand exactly why I was defensive.

Sorry Fleck... your post looked like you didn't understand exactly why I was defensive.

S'okay. :fluffle:

On another note, I weigh ~125lbs at 6'3". Ridiculously skinny.

I disagree with the statement, though remove the 'a lot' and I'd seriously consider agreeing with it.

I'm probably more annoyed with gender-stereotyped body shapes - females that aren't dramatically slim are meant to be 'curvy', males are meant to be muscular, females aren't - than anything else. That's where a lot of the harm lies and it's too often forgotten in the focus on fat - and they interact too, because they put females off weight training and sends them to the demotivating hamster-on-treadmill routine. Which they then give up on, which sends them spiralling down in morale and up in weight, repeat. Contrary to popular myth, weight training won't make females muscular in itself - or males for that matter, I'm 5'11 and 130lbs and I'm a guy and struggling to put on weight, what chance do most females have of becoming bulky with far less testosterone than me to spark that? - but could very easily help metabolism along. And add variety to routines, thus more motivation. :)

But this whole issue is dominated by something other than logic.

S'okay. :fluffle:

On another note, I weigh ~125lbs at 6'3". Ridiculously skinny.
Yeah that is insane. But if I am guessing right, I'm like you. I have a super metabolism and I just can't for the life of me gain weight by eating. However, I started working out and drinking work out shakes...and I gained weight. I'm not at like 160 or something...and also 6'3-ish.

I recommend it.

Would I like to return to weighing 113 and having a 17 BMI? Hell yeah. Do I want to put the effort into staying that thin at my age? Hell no. I find it considerably less effort just to accept that, unless you make your appearance your main focus like an actress or model, you're going to pack on a few pounds as you age.

(Unless you're my father. He's one of those enviable people who have to work to keep from losing weight. I did not inherit this trait. I take after my mother's side, who all start out thin and start packing it on after thirty.)

One's perspective can change over the years. If you had asked me this question when I was in HS, I probably would have said "yes". The fact that I was 6'1" 130 pounds might have had some influence.

When I met my current GF, who clearly does have a weight problem, I was older, wiser, and quite a bit heavier than I was. It wasn't love at first sight, but I gradually decided that her weight wasn't really that important. And though there are concerns about her weight & family history, for now she is healthy despite her extra pounds.

Oh and your question? I would say "no"!

That seems to be the general opinion today. Now, how that went from a minority opinion to a large majority one in only two decades, is the question. :p

I think the modern emphasis on health along with much easier access to information has much to do with it. The extemes have always been easy to notice. But the definition of what is considered overweight and also somewhat underweight has been narrowed. So two decades ago, people who were outside of what is now considered "normal weight" would not have been seen as being outside that range. I know it is way more than two decades, but take Marilyn Monroe as an example. She would be considered overweight by todays standards.

Fat people are hideous. Slightly overweight is fine, as is any degree of thin, but rolls of fat and bulging clothes make me want to vomit.

Well, to each their own fetishes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yadda yadda yadda...

Define fat. I have a BMI of over 25, and I'm not the ugliest thing on earth. (BMI isn't the best indicator of 'fatness' anyway)

I know I'm quite thin, thanks, but did you have to call me ugly in the process?

Oh puh-lease. If you weigh as little as you say you do, according to most medical information, you are underweight. Being underweight doesn't have to mean you're unhealthy/eating-disordered/"ugly", but when it comes down to it, good-looking healthy people are usually close to a healthy weight range. Personally, I like curves, and those who also like curves aren't going to find someone with your particular frame attractive.

-Amor Pulchritudo (Rotovia's fiance)

Depends. How overweight are we talking about? Pudgy or morbidly obese? Pudgy can even be kinda cute.

And of course, a good smile is probably a more important factor than you'd think.

I disagree with the statement, though remove the 'a lot' and I'd seriously consider agreeing with it.

I'm probably more annoyed with gender-stereotyped body shapes - females that aren't dramatically slim are meant to be 'curvy', males are meant to be muscular, females aren't - than anything else. That's where a lot of the harm lies and it's too often forgotten in the focus on fat - and they interact too, because they put females off weight training and sends them to the demotivating hamster-on-treadmill routine. Which they then give up on, which sends them spiralling down in morale and up in weight, repeat. Contrary to popular myth, weight training won't make females muscular in itself - or males for that matter, I'm 5'11 and 130lbs and I'm a guy and struggling to put on weight, what chance do most females have of becoming bulky with far less testosterone than me to spark that? - but could very easily help metabolism along. And add variety to routines, thus more motivation. :)

But this whole issue is dominated by something other than logic.

I weight train. I am fit, and I used to be an athlete. And I'm curvy. Meh.

Wow! Could this topic be more emotionally driven? :)

When I was still in high school, I had a medical issue and I was scrawny. A lot of people used to give me a hard time about it (being a size 6 in Australia) and I didn't like being that small.

Now that the medical issues are gone and I'm kinda a bit chunky looking, I'm given a hard time about a brand new thing. Some days I look in the mirror and remember what it was like to see my ribs and I shudder and like the fact that I have cleavage and a butt :) Some days I look in the mirror and I disgust myself.

I think it doesn't really matter what you look like, human condition kinda dictates that you can never be 100% happy with your own image. And I think that some of the most unattractive individuals that I've ever met are those that either think they're incredibly attractive, or those who tell me how unattractive they are all the time.

My husband is also a bit chunky, and I think he may be one of the most attractive people I've ever seen :D

"Skinny women are ugly"
"but hey, 100 pounds on someone over five feet tall?"

Thanks, guys. For people who supposedly see beauty in all body types, you do it at the expense of women and girls who are thin WITHOUT eating disorders.

So thanks, shallow-minded idiots of NSG, for making me feel even more ugly because of my weight, and not having the intelligence to realize that not all of us skinny girls have eating disorders... considering, you know, that I actually do eat.

And you wonder why I'm so defensive right now.

For what it's worth, I think you are the best kind of woman. Don't ever change.


As for the poll, I agree. I'm rarely attracted to women heavier than what I can lift with one arm, and although my attraction depends on more things than simple fat content, I still usually like ribs more than rolls. Fat people can still be very beautiful, and I enjoy looking at such people very much, but I don't find them "attractive" in any romantic or sexual sense.

Recently, I've noticed an interesting thing. When women hear about my preference, they often react with anger and fury, even if they themselves are thin. Apparently I'm somehow sick and have a distorted idea of beauty, just because I'm OK with women not having double-D's and an ass like a beach ball. So you see, Darknovae, it's not just the guys who do that.

So, what do you think? Does being overweight make a person less attractive to you than if they were a 'proper' weight? Now, individuals will each wear their excess flesh a bit differently, and some better than others. But it appears that I would be in an extreme minority to suggest that being overweight in general makes a person less attractive.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070720/capt.sge.dwc24.200707210407.photo00.photo.default-512x342.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=ceUl4XJTBNU0obSugkMZKw--

So, ugly or not ugly?

A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20070720/capt.sge.dwc24.200707210407.photo00.photo.default-512x342.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=ceUl4XJTBNU0obSugkMZKw--

So, ugly or not ugly?

that's not fat, that's morbidly obese.


This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)

http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg

I think that bigots, cruel, judgmental and plain ole mean people are the ugliest people of them all.

Fat people can lose weight.

What do you do when the problem is your twisted and ugly soul? :confused:

That doesn't wash out.

This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)

http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg

That's not fat, that's slightly overweight.

alien abduction diet plan

=^^=
.../\...

that's not fat, that's morbidly obese.


This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)

http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg

That's not fat at all.

Personally, I go by 'beggars can't be choosers'. :rolleyes:

That's not fat, that's slightly overweight.

I wouldn't put my money on her being even overweight.

On topic, "Fatness is ugly!" and "That's fat!" are cultural indoctrinations same as racism: You can't easily escape them if you live in such a culture.

Fat People are ugly, what do you think?
Repulsive, I'd say.

There is a line, I'm not precisely sure where it lies, where an individual crosses from being inoffensively overweight, to disgustingly obese. It is somewhere in the ankles and chin.

That's not fat, that's slightly overweight.

That's not fat at all.

Personally, I go by 'beggars can't be choosers'. :rolleyes:

Her BMI is 27.

She is fat, she is not a normal weight, she is overweight, she is bordering on medically obese.

I wouldn't put my money on her being even overweight.

On topic, "Fatness is ugly!" and "That's fat!" are cultural indoctrinations same as racism: You can't easily escape them if you live in such a culture.

Actually we are genetically predispositioned to be attracted to healthy fit adults. Obviously there are a few abberations here and there, but seeing as sexual attraction is all about sexual reproduction at it's core, we have an inbuilt tendancy to pick (a) those who can reproduce, (b) those who would give the best offspring.

that's not fat, that's morbidly obese.


This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)

http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg That isn't 'fat' in so far as she does not have an exceptionally high body fat content. Maybe a little more than average, but no more so than she is 'black' for having a healthy tan.

Granted Smunkees example doesn't bother me, I'll show you one which does.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_01/024chubbyhubbyDM_468x598.jpg
This is the kind of fat I can't stand. I laugh when I see them run (with morbid glee), and I am sickened when I watch them eat. I avoid eating in at take away joints purely because I find watching these people dessicate their food utterly repulsive. I feel compulsions to do horrible things to children this fat.

Her BMI is 27.

She is fat, she is not a normal weight, she is overweight, she is bordering on medically obese.

I'm sure you're just doing a personal little piece of trolling, but let me dissect it anyhow, lest I actually advance in my dissecting A Modest Proposal, which I'm awfully uninclined to do:

a) If you'd be ever so kind to read most parts of the thread, you'll find ample opportunity to sample posts to the general sense of "BMI isn't nothing but a very, very broad tool to help estimate weight ranges and by no means an accurate way of telling whether someone is overweight".

b) I haven't yet seen anything but a photo of her, but from that I say - bear with the repetition; you askd for it - that she isn't fat, and most probably not even classified as 'overweight' in the stricter sense, but only upper-end-of-the-scale normalweight. And to say that she borders on medically obese is, quite frankly, what lets me doubt the sincereity of your post.



Honestly, some people have been evry happy to diss 'fatties' in this thread, do you reallly think they wouldn't jump on the chance to feast on this picture if anyone really considered her "bordering on medically obese"? Get a grip, now, and don't play the sulky-defensive defiance shtick.

I'm sure you're just doing a personal little piece of trolling, but let me dissect it anyhow, lest I actually advance in my dissecting A Modest Proposal, which I'm awfully uninclined to do:

a) If you'd be ever so kind to read most parts of the thread, you'll find ample opportunity to sample posts to the general sense of "BMI isn't nothing but a very, very broad tool to help estimate weight ranges and by no means an accurate way of telling whether someone is overweight".

b) I haven't yet seen anything but a photo of her, but from that I say - bear with the repetition; you askd for it - that she isn't fat, and most probably not even classified as 'overweight' in the stricter sense, but only upper-end-of-the-scale normalweight. And to say that she borders on medically obese is, quite frankly, what lets me doubt the sincereity of your post.



Honestly, some people have been evry happy to diss 'fatties' in this thread, do you reallly think they wouldn't jump on the chance to feast on this picture if anyone really considered her "bordering on medically obese"? Get a grip, now, and don't play the sulky-defensive defiance shtick.

I am not trolling at all, when the news says that 75% of Americans are overweight, what they mean is that they estimate that 75% of Americans have a BMI of over 25. She does, she is plus sized, she and I wear the same size of clothes and are built in a similar way. My doctor says I am fat, he says I am overweight, he says I am not an average size or a healthy weight, and that I need to lose weight or I am going to reap the consequences of my curves.

When people say "fat people disgust me" they aren't talking about people like me and Sara, they are talking about the 1200 pound man.

Actually we are genetically predispositioned to be attracted to healthy fit adults.This is true to an extent.

Though what's considered healthy is a matter of culture: Back when food was scarce fat roundness was held sign of an attractive healthy person while today, as shown by Smunkeeville, that body type is considered morbedly obese by some because of prevailing culture.

Obviously there are a few abberations here and there, but seeing as sexual attraction is all about sexual reproduction at it's core, we have an inbuilt tendancy to pick (a) those who can reproduce, (b) those who would give the best offspring.

Sexual selection doesn't have a much to do with fitness per se - Survivability, predators and numbers count more. Think peacocks, that tail of theirs is prime example of what sexual selection is about and lemme tell you what it's not about: Improving the species :D

You also have to understand that adults who weighed more and were generally bigger had better chance of producing surviving offspring for majority of the time humanity has existed.

edit:
Same goes for favouring people who look like you, tribalism, etc...so racism could probably be 'explained' genetically...

if we're talking friendship/acquaintance/etc...
fat is quite alright - but the ones with asses you couldn't reach around, those are scary and i fear for their toilet

but if we're talking life partner or something, honestly the threshold gets a lot stricter...unless the person has some other "special" quality

I am not trolling at all, when the news says that 75% of Americans are overweight, what they mean is that they estimate that 75% of Americans have a BMI of over 25.
Come on now, you're older and per definitionem wiser than me; please don't make a "teh mediaz sez so so this is what we mean when we say 'fat'" argument.
She does, she is plus sized, she and I wear the same size of clothes and are built in a similar way.
Sorry, I wouldn't know what 'plus sized' means (German talking, here).

ETA: Okay, so I wiki-ed to find that plus-sizes appear to be 14+ (USAian) or XL+. Well, according to some online converter I found (http://www.onlineconversion.com/clothing_womens.htm)I'm wearing a USAian 12, i.e. a German 42 for pants, and I'm very much not overweight (by any means, optical or BMI or whathaveyou); saying just one clothing size bigger should make me overweight is rather.. absurd?

My doctor says I am fat, he says I am overweight, he says I am not an average size or a healthy weight, and that I need to lose weight or I am going to reap the consequences of my curves.
Well, that leaves the possibilities that
a) My (our?) perception of that woman as seen from the pic is wrong
b) Your perception of how you relate to that woman's body shape is wrong
c) Your doctor's thoughts on what is and isn't a healthy weight differs from what my non-medical perception of a healthy, attractive body shape is.

When people say "fat people disgust me" they aren't talking about people like me and Sara, they are talking about the 1200 pound man.
Indeedy, because, as I said before, very few would classify the lady in the pic as "fat". You needn't, however, jump to the very extreme now; I personally think many would include the man in the picture GreaterPacificNations just posted, which isn't really morbidly obese, but does qualify as 'fat' in my eyes.

And I know how harmful people can be to such overweight people; I live with a woman with a corrresponding or maybe even greater weight problem, and she has to take a lot of flak, up to the occasional "no please don't touch me; you disgust me" when offering a handshake or whatnot.

Fat can be quite attractive. Obese never is. When the fat begins to distort one's facial features or wobble like Jell-O, that's where the line is drawn.

Come on now, you're older and per definitionem wiser than me; please don't make a "teh mediaz sez so so this is what we mean when we say 'fat'" argument.

Sorry, I wouldn't know what 'plus sized' means (German talking, here).

Well, that leaves the possibilities that
a) My (our?) perception of that woman as seen from the pic is wrong
b) Your perception of how you relate to that woman's body shape is wrong
c) Your doctor's thoughts on what is and isn't a healthy weight differs from what my non-medical perception of a healthy, attractive body shape is.


Indeedy, because, as I said before, very few would classify the lady in the pic as "fat". You needn't, however, jump to the very extreme now; I personally think many would include the man in the picture GreaterPacificNations just posted, which isn't really morbidly obese, but does qualify as 'fat' in my eyes.

And I know how harmful people can be to such overweight people; I live with a woman with a corrresponding or maybe even greater weight problem, and she has to take a lot of flak, up to the occasional "no please don't touch me; you disgust me" when offering a handshake or whatnot.

morbidly obese is a medical term, it describes someone with a BMI of over 39, I was morbidly obese last year when my BMI was 42, I was not 1200 pounds, I did not even weigh 300 pounds.

Well, that's NPD's theory, yeah. It's very true that people are getting heavier, and a recent study that found fat to be 'socially contagious' backs it up, but I'd still think a larger group would agree that being overweight isn't "good" exactly, even if they aren't particularly bothered by it. That doesn't mean refusing to date anyone who doesn't have an ideal body-mass ratio (or whatever it's called) but rather simply seeing a healthy weight as being more attractive.

Surely many things are "socially contagious" (a bullshit term if I've ever heard one). As more people do something...more people do something. ;)

Granted Smunkees example doesn't bother me, I'll show you one which does.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_01/024chubbyhubbyDM_468x598.jpg
This is the kind of fat I can't stand. I laugh when I see them run (with morbid glee), and I am sickened when I watch them eat. I avoid eating in at take away joints purely because I find watching these people dessicate their food utterly repulsive. I feel compulsions to do horrible things to children this fat.

Yeah, it's the kids that disturb me most. Once the facial features and hands and feet start looking piggy, it gets unattractive. People with "baby hands" just don't arouse me in any way. Hands and feet are the last places fat should accumlate. When those get chubby, something's wrong.

morbidly obese is a medical term, it describes someone with a BMI of over 39, I was morbidly obese last year when my BMI was 42, I was not 1200 pounds, I did not even weigh 300 pounds.

I'm sorry if I used it loosely; I knew morbidly obese to be a technical term.

I had to run and use another converter, and it appears 300 pounds equal roughly 136 kilos - now I'm trying to picture a woman my height (175cm/7 foot 5.7 inches) with 130 kilos on her, and I must admit that's pretty much double my current weight, and I really don't see that as anywhere close to what the lady in the pic appears to have on her; I must amit that would sound to fall into my fat category.

/edited to follow Smunkee's edit

ETA: Well, I hope you see now that calling a lady who's BMI allegedly is 27 "bordering on morbidly obese" when the line for that is at 39, yes? If we discard the previously established notion that BMIs aren't worth a lot for these assessments and use them, 27 would be only two notches over the line ofr normal weight, which is a range of 6 notches wide, so no really significant deviation from it at all.. right?

iSmell persecution complex, which sadly surely does have very tangible roots in the daily life of overweight peoplebut still shouldn't be used to try and make people say that they'd consider anyone who's not model-sized "fat" when they clearly and numerously express that they don't.

What are we talking about as in "fat"?

Fat as in obese? Hell no, that's down right disgusting. If a person has no respect for themselves or their well being that they sit on their ass all day eating complete shit, and do nothing about it can screw themselves. People like this(With a few exceptions towards those who have a natural inclination towards this, be it a slow metabolism or other natural factors) are in no way attractive. Often times, they infact have a holier than thou attitude to boot. "I'm fat and you have to respect my fatitude" type thing. I don't have to respect shit, especially someone who has no respect for their own body. I'm no 6% body fat greek god, but I at least keep fairly fit.

Fat as in a bit overweight? Bah, not my cup of tea. I'll save those for my bro. He says they appreciate it more. I'll let him appreciate that. :D

Fat as in slightly overweight, a little bit of chub, perhaps? Yeah, this is when attractiveness sets in for me. Of course, I have a bit of a spectrum, and don't really specify to much after this point, until you hit the "really underweight"(Slightly underweight isn't so bad, but bones thin is), so yeah.

Some may call me shallow. I'm not. Other people wouldn't date someone they aren't attracted to. Why should I? Physical attraction is important, regardless of what people say. Of course, in the long run emotional and mental attraction are more important in the long run, but without actual physical attraction, a relationship won't last at all.

I'm sorry if I used it loosely; I knew morbidly obese to be a technical term.

I had to run and use another converter, and it appears 300 pounds equal roughly 136 kilos - now I'm trying to picture a woman my height (175cm/7 foot 5.7 inches) with 130 kilos on her, and I must admit that's pretty much double my current weight, and I really don't see that as anywhere close to what the lady in the pic appears to have on her; I must amit that would sound to fall into my fat category.

/edited to follow Smunkee's edit

ETA: Well, I hope you see now that calling a lady who's BMI allegedly is 27 "bordering on morbidly obese" when the line for that is at 39, yes?

forgot the line.

I have been losing weight so I misunderestmate where I was before.

are these threads really needed? Both extremes are unattactive. Extremely fat people and extremely thin people.

"Skinny women are ugly"
"but hey, 100 pounds on someone over five feet tall?"

Thanks, guys. For people who supposedly see beauty in all body types, you do it at the expense of women and girls who are thin WITHOUT eating disorders.

So thanks, shallow-minded idiots of NSG, for making me feel even more ugly because of my weight, and not having the intelligence to realize that not all of us skinny girls have eating disorders... considering, you know, that I actually do eat.

And you wonder why I'm so defensive right now.

Absolutely right. People, the proper way to make overweight folks feel better about their bodies is not to denigrate thin people for their bodies. Sure, maybe it makes a somewhat overweight girl feel better to say "At least I don't look like those rail-thin anorexic models," but it doesn't do much for the girls who are suddenly thinking they're ugly because they're "too thin," does it? That's just swapping one kind of shallowness for another.

I am not trolling at all, when the news says that 75% of Americans are overweight, what they mean is that they estimate that 75% of Americans have a BMI of over 25. She does, she is plus sized, she and I wear the same size of clothes and are built in a similar way. My doctor says I am fat, he says I am overweight, he says I am not an average size or a healthy weight, and that I need to lose weight or I am going to reap the consequences of my curves.

When people say "fat people disgust me" they aren't talking about people like me and Sara, they are talking about the 1200 pound man.
From the looks of the girl you posted, she's probably overweight because she has a lot of muscle. Hell, professional weightlifters are overweight if you're just going by a BMI.

From the looks of the girl you posted, she's probably overweight because she has a lot of muscle. Hell, professional weightlifters are overweight if you're just going by a BMI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goH5OeSXOeg

skip to about half way through and you can see her dancing.....it's not "mostly muscle"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goH5OeSXOeg

skip to about half way through and you can see her dancing.....it's not "mostly muscle"
My computer won't play the video...

but having fat on top of muscle doesn't mean there can't be muscle underneath. She looks like she's pretty solidly built.

ETA: Well, I hope you see now that calling a lady who's BMI allegedly is 27 "bordering on morbidly obese" when the line for that is at 39, yes?

She didn't say "bordering on morbidly obese." What she said was "bordering on medically obese." Obese and morbidly obese are generally two different categories. Depending on what chart Smunk is using, the exact numbers may be different.

To be fair, there are lots of different charts that people use to determine ideal weight and the like. Some jump from healthy to obese and then to morbidly obese. Some are healthy --> Overweight --> Obese --> Morbidly obese

While there are some who will call people in the overweight category and even at the high end of the healthy category "fat", most of the people I know won't go to the term "fat" until you at least get into the obese category (on charts that include just an overweight one).

My computer won't play the video...

but having fat on top of muscle doesn't mean there can't be muscle underneath. She looks like she's pretty solidly built.

She has curves that jiggle. People (just about anyone not around here) realize that she is overweight, and yet, she is very attractive. People around here also say that overweight people are not attractive. So, I guess the only way you can make those two mesh is to say she isn't big.

Lets try someone else

how about Mia Tyler

http://www.judgmentofparis.com/mt/mt01.jpg

She has curves that jiggle. People (just about anyone not around here) realize that she is overweight, and yet, she is very attractive. People around here also say that overweight people are not attractive. So, I guess the only way you can make those two mesh is to say she isn't big.

Lets try someone else

how about Mia Tyler
Look, either way the women you're posting pictures of aren't fat whether or not they're overweight. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find pictures of women who are the same height and weight who would be considered fat because different people put weight on in different ways.

Lets try someone else

how about Mia Tyler


HAWT

=)

Look, either way the women you're posting pictures of aren't fat whether or not they're overweight. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find pictures of women who are the same height and weight who would be considered fat because different people put weight on in different ways.

What about these women?

http://a824.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_704299d2fb19c720a37e5c7cef2e74e7.jpg

Personally, I think they're all hotness, except maybe one, on my bad days. Several are technically overweight.

What about these women?
*snip*

Personally, I think they're all hotness, except maybe one, on my bad days. Several are technically overweight.
I don't like the one on the far left or the one just to the left of the bride... and while the kids are cute I wouldn't call them hot because I don't really go for kids like that. One of them doesn't look like she knows what's going on though.

I don't like the one on the far left or the one just to the left of the bride... and while the kids are cute I wouldn't call them hot because I don't really go for kids like that. One of them doesn't look like she knows what's going on though.

Well I wouldn't call the kids women, silly.

But, one way or another, this means it isn't a matter of overweight people being ugly. You pick and choose just as you would with people who aren't overweight. There are two more women in the picture who are actually overweight, and you don't seem to have a problem with either of them. So it isn't being fat or overweight that you find unattractive, it's most likely more of a difference in body shape and, in this case, maybe even just the cut of the dress being worn and how it looks and has been altered on different people.

Well I wouldn't call the kids women, silly.
Haha. True.

But, one way or another, this means it isn't a matter of overweight people being ugly. You pick and choose just as you would with people who aren't overweight. There are two more women in the picture who are actually overweight, and you don't seem to have a problem with either of them. So it isn't being fat or overweight that you find unattractive, it's most likely more of a difference in body shape and, in this case, maybe even just the cut of the dress being worn and how it looks and has been altered on different people.
Well, being actually fat would generally mean that they put weight on in such a way (and such quantities) that they aren't attractive (well, by how I think of fat anyways). One can be overweight, however, if one lifts weights or one can be a "healthy weight" and be a butterball.

But generally, I think that the face is more important for someone being pretty or ugly...

What about these women?

http://a824.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_704299d2fb19c720a37e5c7cef2e74e7.jpg

Personally, I think they're all hotness, except maybe one, on my bad days. Several are technically overweight.

Apart from the fact they have faces like the back end of a bus, unimaginative, plain hair and poor posture, I still maintain they too overweight to be attractive. Or, for that matter, fuckable.

You sir, are a munter hunter.:p

Apart from the fact they have faces like the back end of a bus, unimaginative, plain hair and poor posture, I still maintain they too overweight to be attractive. Or, for that matter, fuckable.

You sir, are a munter hunter.:p

Who you callin' sir?

Apart from the fact they have faces like the back end of a bus, unimaginative, plain hair and poor posture, I still maintain they too overweight to be attractive. Or, for that matter, fuckable.

You sir, are a munter hunter.:p
So you like banging bones huh?

So you like banging bones huh?

No, just no whales. People should make the effort to at least be slim.

No, just no whales. People should make the effort to at least be slim.

Not everyone in that photo was fat so the conclusion is you like bony bitches.

So you like banging bones huh?
Oh, this again. If a girl isn't overweight, she's nothing but bones.

Isn't it possible to praise heavier people without insulting thinner ones? Or isn't it at least possible to stop insulting thin women all the damn time. There are thin men too. Why not rag on them for a while? Oh right, men are allowed to look however they do and they can still be attractive, but god forbid if a woman has collar bones that aren't visible enough or if they're too visible or if she's got tits that aren't big enough or if she *gasp* ages naturally.

Oh, this again. If a girl isn't overweight, she's nothing but bones.

Isn't it possible to praise heavier people without insulting thinner ones? Or isn't it at least possible to stop insulting thin women all the damn time. There are thin men too. Why not rag on them for a while? Oh right, men are allowed to look however they do and they can still be attractive, but god forbid if a woman has collar bones that aren't visible enough or if they're too visible or if she's got tits that aren't big enough or if she *gasp* ages naturally.

See my last post.

Oh right, men are allowed to look however they do and they can still be attractive

you've never been young and gay, have you?

admittedly, amongst older ones there are some decidedly fat-friendly movements...but the younger ones have as much pressure on them as women do.

you've never been young and gay, have you?

admittedly, amongst older ones there are some decidedly fat-friendly movements...but the younger ones have as much pressure on them as women do.
Ok, so it's just people who are trying to fuck men who have the problem then?

Man, men are jerks.

Ok, so it's just people who are trying to fuck men who have the problem then?

Man, men are jerks.

Heh. I found that a bit funny. :p

Really, I don't think the fat or the thin have things too difficult in life. So a few less people look at you, or you have a couple less relationships - no one's entitled to either of those things, so we should all count our blessings as it is. ;)

Ok, so it's just people who are trying to fuck men who have the problem then?

Man, men are jerks.

Yeah... I'm going no.

Trust me, just as many women care about looks just as much as guys do. Sometimes even worse.

There is a great deal of pressure put on women and girls, by other women and girls mind you, to try to get the "trophy" boyfriend, in a sense, just as there is pressure on males to get the trophy girlfriend.

So really, if men are jerks, women are as well.

So really, if men are jerks, women are as well.

Aha. I always suspected as much. Saying so outside an anonymous setting never seemed to be a good idea to me, though. :p

Aha. I always suspected as much. Saying so outside an anonymous setting never seemed to be a good idea to me, though. :p

A man's gotta get laid, no?

Seriously, though, I find it rather fun to go into little rants when random girls at the bar talk about how guys are "pigs" or whatnot, when they themselves have dolled themselves up, and are groping the nearest sexy-thang they just met.

Oh, I'm great with ladies.:rolleyes:

What about these women?

http://a824.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_704299d2fb19c720a37e5c7cef2e74e7.jpg

Personally, I think they're all hotness, except maybe one, on my bad days. Several are technically overweight.

I'd call the first and the third from the left overweight, but none of them 'fat', because 'fat', in my opinion, denotes a state of overweight that really distorts the figure, rather than 'just' being a bit too much flesh on the overall shape - but I do, of course, realize that's neither a clear-cut definition nor an objectively enforceable one.

Fat can be quite attractive. Obese never is. When the fat begins to distort one's facial features or wobble like Jell-O, that's where the line is drawn.

My thoughts as well.

If we're going by BMI then, no, not at all. Mostly because the BMI is a load of crap. A pair of eyes are a better tool to measure someone's weight and whether it's normal than the BMI.

I've never had a BMI under 25. Reason? If you are female and power lift, then your number is distorted. There's far too many variables for it to be any sort of effective means of measurement.

That's the article's definition, so I'd use that for the purpose of the poll. 25 or under. It's probably not perfect, but it works for the most part. :)
Holy crap! That makes me and my highschool body fat of 10% disgustingly fat by your estimations.


Fat is in the eye of the beholder. End of story.

How can you not agree with the poll question..

Being fat is psychically unattractive.. if you think otherwise that's cos you are FAT.

Yeah... I'm going no.

Trust me, just as many women care about looks just as much as guys do. Sometimes even worse.

There is a great deal of pressure put on women and girls, by other women and girls mind you, to try to get the "trophy" boyfriend, in a sense, just as there is pressure on males to get the trophy girlfriend.

So really, if men are jerks, women are as well.
I've never been big on trophies. I get tired of airheads whether they're men or women, really.

How can you not agree with the poll question..

Being fat is psychically unattractive.. if you think otherwise that's cos you are FAT.
Wow, psychically unattractive? Does that mean that the psyche of fat cells is unattractive to you, or it is that fat people have psychic powers which they use to drive you away?

Either way, I'd love to know their secret, so I can psychically stop thin-obsessed greasy losers from hitting on me at the pub.

Extra (large) Sensory Perception.

Wow, psychically unattractive? Does that mean that the psyche of fat cells is unattractive to you, or it is that fat people have psychic powers which they use to drive you away?

Either way, I'd love to know their secret, so I can psychically stop thin-obsessed greasy losers from hitting on me at the pub.

Stop bathing, and gain 300 pounds, and I'm sure that no one would hit on you.

Stop bathing, and gain 300 pounds, and I'm sure that no one would hit on you.
That's not psychic.

I demand superpowers.

That's not psychic.

I demand superpowers.

Call Rosie O'Donnell, and have her teach you how to be shrewish and loud. That works, too.

Plus, you can turn that off when people you like are around.

Wow, psychically unattractive? Does that mean that the psyche of fat cells is unattractive to you, or it is that fat people have psychic powers which they use to drive you away?

Either way, I'd love to know their secret, so I can psychically stop thin-obsessed greasy losers from hitting on me at the pub.
Yes I fail at spelling.

Wow, psychically unattractive? Does that mean that the psyche of fat cells is unattractive to you, or it is that fat people have psychic powers which they use to drive you away?

Either way, I'd love to know their secret, so I can psychically stop thin-obsessed greasy losers from hitting on me at the pub.

Well, overweight(not necessarily slightly or somewhat, but someone who is really overweight) is viewed as being unhealthy. We are animals, after all, and physical attraction is very important when finding a mate, which in the end is what it's all about. A person being viewed as unhealthy will have some difficulty finding a mate, no? Quite simply, they are seen as unsuitable mates, producing less viable offspring.

More or less.

Well, overweight(not necessarily slightly or somewhat, but someone who is really overweight) is viewed as being unhealthy. We are animals, after all, and physical attraction is very important when finding a mate, which in the end is what it's all about. A person being viewed as unhealthy will have some difficulty finding a mate, no? Quite simply, they are seen as unsuitable mates, producing less viable offspring.

More or less.
True and false at the same time.

All the evolutionary psychology stuff is interesting, but once you leave the lab and get out to the pub you realize that it's far too simplistic an explanation.

Physical attraction is important, sure, but it's not the only factor. It may not be the deciding factor.

Many of us don't ever want to produce offspring anyhow, so our mate selection focuses more on the traits we find more ideal for our purposes. Don't discount the fabulous frontal cortex.

Don't discount the fabulous frontal cortex.

I don't discount it.

However...

Some people don't have a well-functioning frontal cortex (research shows that the more developed your frontal cortex, the better you are at lying, so remember that).

And, the frontal cortex is not as consistent in most people (i.e., always thinking about suppressing or modifying biological response in a purely logical manner) as you would like.

Sure, maybe you can completely control all possible biological inputs and responses, and interpret and control everything through logical thought, but you're in the minority.

The rest of us have to throw a bag over her head if she's ugly.

that's not fat, that's morbidly obese.


This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)

http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg

She's beautiful.

Some of the most beautiful people I know are 20+ lbs "overweight"
and some of the ugliest people I know are physically..."blessed"

Physically , for me anyway - I prefer a few extra pounds on both men and women , to not enough pounds.

On the whole , a wonderful smile and great personality can make all the difference in the world.
Morbidly Obese people aren't ugly to me, I feel sympathy for them - it must be very hard to look in the mirror and feel not only your own weight but the weight of society's judgement.

How can you not agree with the poll question..

Being fat is psychically unattractive.. if you think otherwise that's cos you are FAT.

Um, this isn't youtube. You actually need some brain cells to post here.

Many cultures find "overweight" women attractive. Look at old paintings from the renaissance, the women would be considered overweight by modern, western standards, but these woman were considered the epitome of feminine beauty by the artists who painted them.

Beauty is and has always been a cultural thing. Read this article (http://http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2248/is_157_40/ai_n13774349/pg_2) if you have any doubts.

Um, this isn't youtube. You actually need some brain cells to post here.

You do?:confused:

Good lord, this place is going downhill....

You do?:confused:

Good lord, this place is going downhill....

Well, I'd like to think we've at least managed walking and talking.

Well, I am fat. Very much so. And today I found out from my female best friend that I am repulsive. Even the thought of her kissing me, I'm told, makes her "quiver in disgust." This was triggered by a 'romantic dream' she had of me.

Fat people are disgusting.

Well, I'd like to think we've at least managed walking and talking.

You wish:D

We're still at the lumbering about hunchbacked and shouting at each other stage.

Well, I am fat. Very much so. And today I found out from my female best friend that I am repulsive. Even the thought of her kissing me, I'm told, makes her "quiver in disgust." This was triggered by a 'romantic dream' she had of me.

Fat people are disgusting.

Self-pitying scouser alert! I'd blame it on Thatcher if I were you:rolleyes:

Aye, if the slag had let me work down the mines, I'd lose a few pounds.

:rolleyes:



It does sound a tad self-pitying perhaps, but I'm just in a **** of a mood.


EDIT:
I'm not sure it's actually that self-pitying, when I've lost 20lbs in six weeks...

*snip*
This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)
http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg
That's not fat, that's slightly overweight.
I wouldn't put my money on her being even overweight. *snip*
Her BMI is 27. She is fat, she is not a normal weight, she is overweight, she is bordering on medically obese.
She's beautiful.
Some of the most beautiful people I know are 20+ lbs "overweight"
and some of the ugliest people I know are physically..."blessed"
Physically , for me anyway - I prefer a few extra pounds on both men and women , to not enough pounds. *snip*

To me, she looks like her BMI would be over 25, making her medically overweight. However, Smunkeevill said she's not a "normal" weight, and that's simply not true. To me, she is beautiful and curvy, and oozes sex appeal. She is attractive, and according to many people (from doctors to jocks) she is "fat". This proves that the original poster's suggestion that "fat" people are unnattractive is WRONG.

I'd also like to point out that she isn't bordering on "obesity" (from a medical view point). A BMI of 27 and a BMI of 30 are quite far apart.

I have a BMI over 25, and I look more slender than she does, but I am also technically "overweight" (according to BMI). I have curves, I eat a healthy diet and I get enough exercise. Some people would argue that I'm not "fat", but many others would. In fact, the other day I got called "thunder thighs" by trashy men at a bar (whom I'd never met). Yet many of my friends envy my frame. Whether someone is attractive is subjective, and everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, but when it comes to the question "are fat people ugly?", it's a bit different...

This argument is proving useless because no-one is willing to define what "fat" is. BMI can often be incorrect, however it's one of the only systems we have to measure "fatness". We could argue about body fat percentage, or waist-to-hip ratio, but in the end every single body is different.



Granted Smunkees example doesn't bother me, I'll show you one which does.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_01/024chubbyhubbyDM_468x598.jpg
This is the kind of fat I can't stand. I laugh when I see them run (with morbid glee), and I am sickened when I watch them eat. I avoid eating in at take away joints purely because I find watching these people dessicate their food utterly repulsive. I feel compulsions to do horrible things to children this fat.

I think you have some issues. Do you really think you have the right to feel this way about people you don't even know? It's not as though they are junkies on the street, and even then, who are you to judge? Obesity can often be related to eating disorders or underlying medical problems.

If you feel compulsions to do horrible things to ANYONE, get help, you nutcase.

What are we talking about as in "fat"?

No-one knows.

So you like banging bones huh?

SNAP!

How can you not agree with the poll question..

Being fat is psychically unattractive.. if you think otherwise that's cos you are FAT.

Wow.
You're what's wrong with society.

Wow, psychically unattractive? Does that mean that the psyche of fat cells is unattractive to you, or it is that fat people have psychic powers which they use to drive you away?

Either way, I'd love to know their secret, so I can psychically stop thin-obsessed greasy losers from hitting on me at the pub.

I love you.

Many cultures find "overweight" women attractive. Look at old paintings from the renaissance, the women would be considered overweight by modern, western standards, but these woman were considered the epitome of feminine beauty by the artists who painted them.

Beauty is and has always been a cultural thing. Read this article (http://http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2248/is_157_40/ai_n13774349/pg_2) if you have any doubts.

I get told I look like a painting, lol.

-- Amor Pulchritudo

that is a cultural bias and a nonsensical one.

SOME fat people are ugly. SOME ugly people are fat.
fat itself is NOT ugly, other then in really absurd extremes.

ten pounds overweight, even 20 to 50, depending on other factors, can even be more attractive then so called 'ideal' weight.

now if someone four foot zero, weighed more then 650 pounds, then i might seriously consider that an ugly degree of fatness, but less then a hundred pounds over on someone taller then five feet, come on, you've got to be kidding.

=^^=
.../\...

dude you're GROSS I don't think what a hundred extra pounds looks like......unless you do. :eek:

Or how about using the phrases like 'I'm a little plump around the waist' or 'most of weight is on my butt' etc...

For what I mean by overweight. I tend not to use the term. It's not really an issue with me unless that person is clinically obese. Most important thing is if people are comfortable with their weight. People who think they're overweight tend to look it and vice versa.

bullshit people who think they are overweight have just come to terms with the fact that they will soon get a blue ribbon,while others are in a web of self taught lies

I'm not creepy.

I just play sports, bike everywhere and eat sensibly instead of sitting on my ass all day, driving easily walkable distances and eating crap.

I voted that overweight people are less attractive than one who is average. I don't think that all fat people are ugly, but generally, people who are definitely overweight don't look quite as good as people who are healthy. I also think that it should be relatively easy to lose excess weight, but people are lazy bastards.
agreed and no, not all fat and fugly fives are ugly as long as you can keep your eyes on the face, cause the body is medusas temple:gundge:

Define fat. I have a BMI of over 25, and I'm not the ugliest thing on earth. (BMI isn't the best indicator of 'fatness' anyway)



Oh puh-lease. If you weigh as little as you say you do, according to most medical information, you are underweight. Being underweight doesn't have to mean you're unhealthy/eating-disordered/"ugly", but when it comes down to it, good-looking healthy people are usually close to a healthy weight range. Personally, I like curves, and those who also like curves aren't going to find someone with your particular frame attractive.

-Amor Pulchritudo (Rotovia's fiance)

at the same time someone needs to explain to these girls that muffin tops don't constitute curves, so don't wear hip huggers that show off the 2nd butt you have :rolleyes:

at the same time someone needs to explain to these girls that muffin tops don't constitute curves, so don't wear hip huggers that show off the 2nd butt you have :rolleyes:

Do you even READ posts before you reply?

--Amor Pulchritudo

Do you even READ posts before you reply?

Who's this Amor person? Do you have split personalities?

Who's this Amor person? Do you have split personalities?

No.

My NS name was Amor Pulchritudo, but it got deleted.
I'm using Rotovia's account. I'm his fiance. :)

I don't go for skinny, really. Never have. That doesn't mean I go for freakishly fat people, but I do like a good bit of padding. A very good bit.

that's not fat, that's morbidly obese.


This is fat, and yet, she is attractive. (or I think she is attractive)

http://www.glamour.com/images/news/2006/12/near01_sararamirez.jpg

She's sort of attractive, although a little skinny for my taste.

She's sort of attractive, although a little skinny for my taste.

I always thought you were straight...

I always thought you were straight...

Nope, I like both.

Nope, I like both.

That makes sense, I guess. I do too.

Do you even READ posts before you reply?

--Amor Pulchritudo

why? because I don't find fat broads with odd shapes to be curvy?

:eek: Im surprised at some people who care about weight. I like slim guys but i dont mind a small bit of pudge but im not totally fattist.

why? because I don't find fat broads with odd shapes to be curvy?

Your replies seem to have very little to do with what people have said, that's all.

why? because I don't find fat broads with odd shapes to be curvy?

I don't think this is the forums you are looking for. If you want to post random crap without reading the thread go here. (http://youtube.com/)

Im surprised at some people who care about weight. I like slim guys but i dont mind a small bit of pudge but im not totally fattist.
Fixed.

Hint: Large font doesn't make your post more intelligent.

I've never met a lady who was too big for my taste...big is not ugly; it's beautiful.

I've never met a lady who was too big for my taste...big is not ugly; it's beautiful.

Ah, just roll her in flour and look for ....

I've never met a lady who was too big for my taste...big is not ugly; it's beautiful.
http://www.nbc5.com/news/3646642/detail.html If I could find a picture of her I bet you'd disagree...

All the same: link (http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/big-salsa-dance.html)

Law Abiding Criminals would hit it...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4513/cfooderof2.jpg

More to my liking:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/nikisaletta/roll1006.jpg

Not skinny, but not fat either.

More to my liking:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/nikisaletta/roll1006.jpg

Not skinny, but not fat either.
Skillet ass. I like latina women though, so....

Here's what I mean by a physically fit woman who knows how to handle a pair of balls...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/jtkwon/thumb-supercheer.jpg

I have no problem with obese people. I am more attracted to someone in shapoe more then a little overweight.

Law Abiding Criminals would hit it...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4513/cfooderof2.jpg

Me likey...me likey very much...

Mm...Frankly I hate scrawny men. Too many guys have legs smaller than mine...That scares me. (I'm not overweight either, my BMI is average.) I like big guys, even if they are considered overweight. Especially the strong ones. Yay Manly Men. ^^

As for myself...As I said I'm average weight for my height. I'm very curvy though...So I even out nicely. And no one's ever complained about my looks. ;P

I love those old paintings that show women who look...Real.

http://www.nbc5.com/news/3646642/detail.html If I could find a picture of her I bet you'd disagree...

Lack of taking care of oneself is always bad...

All the same: link (http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/big-salsa-dance.html)

I rather enjoyed that video, actually...yummy...

Sucky relation poll question -> thread title. But anyhow..

.. no, I wouldn't say "Fat people are ugly", as I've been proven the contrary times enough, just as I have seen many, many non-overweight ugliness.

As for the poll question, I'm not sure whether I understand it correctly. If it means, as I originally took it, "Do you think one person would, on average, look more attractive if they lost enough weight so that they wouldn't be overweight anymore?", then I'd probbaly answer "yes" (as, incidentally, I did in the poll).

Now, if it is taken to mean "Do you think that non-overweight people in general look more attractive than overweight people?", as I gathered from the discussion that many people in this thread took it to mean, then I guess I'd still be on the "yes" side if I had to pick one side, but much less decisively so.

If we exclude "skinny" from the non-overweight class (i.e. make it the "healthy" rather than the ambiguous "non-overweight" class which tends to have a lot of unhealthily skinny included and a lot of perfectly healthy non-skinny people excluded); I think very few people would deny that one singular person would look more attractive if they lost enough weight to fall into the non-overweight, healthy class.

In fact, I think most answers to the negative stem from an angst to "discriminate" or "fall victim to the capitalizt domination of our model-formed views on what is good-looking" and somesuch crap, or the fear to be taken as saying "Fat people can't be loveable" when all one says is "they'd be physically more attractive if they lost weight".

ditto je pense

I think you have some issues. Do you really think you have the right to feel this way about people you don't even know? Yes. I do. I have the right to feel however I please about whomever I please regardless of whether I know them or not. Besides, I wasn't judging them on their personalities, I was judging them on their disgusting levels of body fat. 'Knowing' them would not bring anything new to the table. It's not as though they are junkies on the street, and even then, who are you to judge?Not a junkie, and not overweight? Why do I need to justify myself a platform from which to judge people? You haven't. Obesity can often be related to eating disorders or underlying medical problems So what? Wife beating can often be related to early child abuse.

If you feel compulsions to do horrible things to ANYONE, get help, you nutcase. Don't worry, all I ever do is make them run. Nothing is so morbidly satisfying then cackling with laughter as a fat person runs for their food (*remember boarding school*). Oh god... *actually laughing*...

Some may be fat, but others are ugly and some can diet.

Law Abiding Criminals would hit it...

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4513/cfooderof2.jpg

I loved the pic, but it was definitely Photoshopped...still, Photoshop or no, she's welcome in my home in that bikini anytime...