NationStates Jolt Archive

Barroids (Mr. HGH, wifebeater, liar, etc) just hit juiced HR # 756. :mad:

I've just lost a lot of respect for Hank Aaron and Willie Mays for congratulating the cheating asshole. I can sort of understand Mays being a friend of Bobby and all, but Aaron should be pissed that his record would be broken by that fat headed buffoon.

Eh.....what?

Eh.....what?

Baseball.

Eh.....what?

Baseball

EDIT: Damn Lacadaemon to hell and beyond for his impudence - the addition of a full stop was especially galling

Baseball.

OK, thanks.

Yeah...just posting "Barroids (Mr. HGH, wifebeater, liar, etc) just hit juiced HR # 756." without any explanation doesn't help much towards understanding what's going on...

I'm torn. On one hand, I have absolutely no problem with performance enhancing drugs provided they are legal, safe, and standardized...but none of those three apply to what Bonds did. He used illegal, dangerous drugs to enhance his performance and that gave him an edge nobody else could counteract without endangering their health and career. It was a completely unfair advantage.

At the same time, however, he did earn that record; steroids made him stronger and more capable of hitting home runs, but it still required skill to hit those home runs in the first place. Without that skill, all the drugs in the world couldn't help him break Aaron's record.

I really don't know what to think, honestly.

I spilled two shots worth of bourbon on the sidewalk for baseball, just a minute ago.

I'm torn. On one hand, I have absolutely no problem with performance enhancing drugs provided they are legal, safe, and standardized...but none of those three apply to what Bonds did. He used illegal, dangerous drugs to enhance his performance and that gave him an edge nobody else could counteract without endangering their health and career. It was a completely unfair advantage.

At the same time, however, he did earn that record; steroids made him stronger and more capable of hitting home runs, but it still required skill to hit those home runs in the first place. Without that skill, all the drugs in the world couldn't help him break Aaron's record.

I really don't know what to think, honestly.There is no doubt he had skill. Without steroids, Barry Bonds still would have been a member of the 500 HR club.

The problem is that these steroids increase your strength and in turn your bat speed. Bat speed is the most important factor on what you're going to do with the ball when you make contact.

I really hate the Yankees, but I've found myself rooting for A-Rod. He can't hit his next 257 HRs soon enough.

Congratulations Barry Bonds.

*applauds the homer and the statement made by Mr. Aaron*

May the record stand for as long as it did this time around.

Barroids (Mr. HGH, wifebeater, liar, etc) just hit juiced HR # 756. :mad:

I've just lost a lot of respect for Hank Aaron and Willie Mays for congratulating the cheating asshole. I can sort of understand Mays being a friend of Bobby and all, but Aaron should be pissed that his record would be broken by that fat headed buffoon.

Actually, Willy Mays is Barry Bonds godfather.

And I can't wait for someone else (that's not juiced) to break the record, as I've never liked Bonds. A-Rod would be a logical choice, as he's the youngest to 500 HRs (although, if he can stay healthy, Griffey might have a shot at it).

:mad:

:upyours: -> Bonds

To all of those who say that Bonds used Steriods, please prove it.

Please prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bonds used performance Enhancing Drugs illegally.

To all of those who say that Bonds used Steriods, please prove it.

He admitted it in his Balco grand jury testimony.

He admitted it in his Balco grand jury testimony.

You mean the part where he stated that he unknowingly took them?

To all of those who say that Bonds used Steriods, please prove it.

The files that federal agents seized from BALCO on September 3, 2003 would seem to be pretty convincing, but those are just medical records, and I'm a stickler for the printed word, oh, and that whole Greg Anderson thing too.

To all of those who say that Bonds used Steriods, please prove it.
It could be worse......

he could have used performance enhancing puppets!! :rolleyes:

The files that federal agents seized from BALCO on September 3, 2003 would seem to be pretty convincing, but those are just medical records, and I'm a stickler for the printed word, oh, and that whole Greg Anderson thing too.

And yet, not one shred of proof that he did things illegally.

You mean the part where he stated that he unknowingly took them?

Whether he knew they were steroids or not, it's his responsibility as a professional athlete to know what goes into his body. Also, there are allegations that he DID know that what Greg Anderson (his personal trainer) was giving him was steroids. That's why Greg Anderson is still in jail (he's refusing to cooperate in an investigation into the possibility that Bonds perjured himself in the Balco grand jury).

It could be worse......

he could have used performance enhancing puppets!! :rolleyes:

Marionettes > puppets. :D

You mean the part where he stated that he unknowingly took them?

It flies over my head how anyone can find such a pathetic excuse for an excuse plausible.

And yet, not one shred of proof that he did things illegally.

It's fairly clear that he used illegal performance enhancing drugs. It's also becoming rapidly more clear that the prosecutors will get the perjury indictment against Bonds for that misbegotten statement fairly soon.

And yet, not one shred of proof that he did things illegally.

Look, even if he admitted taking them unknowingly, then he still admitted taking them and therefore he acted illegally.

The whole drugs in sports affair is a complete fiasco anyway - the one reason to applaud Bonds for 756 is that most of the pitchers he was up against were probably juiced as well as the fielders ad finitum.

Everyone in sport knows people take steroids, whether knowingly or not, and it's really only a case of distinguishing between those that have been deemed illegal and those that have not.

Sports is simply becoming a gladiatorial affair of entertainment as opposed to real competition, I'm simply waiting for lions and tigers to be introduced to spice up the game for the circle to be complete.

Whether he knew they were steroids or not, it's his responsibility as a professional athlete to know what goes into his body. Also, there are allegations that he DID know that what Greg Anderson (his personal trainer) was giving him was steroids. That's why Greg Anderson is still in jail (he's refusing to cooperate in an investigation into the possibility that Bonds perjured himself in the Balco grand jury).

Allegations means nothing without full evidence. So far. There is no evidence. Until such time as proof comes out that Bonds knowingly took steriods and were illegal, then my mind will be changed. Until such time...

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

It's fairly clear that he used illegal performance enhancing drugs. It's also becoming rapidly more clear that the prosecutors will get the perjury indictment against Bonds for that misbegotten statement fairly soon.

If that were the case, they would have already had it instead of having it extended 6 months.

Allegations means nothing without full evidence. So far. There is no evidence. Until such time as proof comes out that Bonds knowingly took steriods and were illegal, then my mind will be changed. Until such time...

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

Say's Mr "They're in Guatamo, so they must be guilty."

It flies over my head how anyone can find such a pathetic excuse for an excuse plausible.

*snorts*

Unlike most people it seems, I have not convicted him at all.

Allegations means nothing without full evidence. So far. There is no evidence. Until such time as proof comes out that Bonds knowingly took steriods and were illegal, then my mind will be changed. Until such time...

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

Innocent until proven guilty for perjury, I agree. On the use of steroids, he IS guilty though (he's admitted in a court of law that he's used them, and that can count as evidence).

If that were the case, they would have already had it instead of having it extended 6 months.

It would seem that they are ensuring that their case is watertight, and that there will be no readily available grounds for appeal. They're being careful because this case is precisely so high profile. I betcha that in some dark corner of their brains, the US Attorneys have a tiny little image of OJ Simpson being acquitted, and they don't want to allow such a similar travesty of justice to occur in this case.

Sports is simply becoming a gladiatorial affair of entertainment as opposed to real competition, I'm simply waiting for lions and tigers to be introduced to spice up the game for the circle to be complete.

Not before time either.

Innocent until proven guilty for perjury, I agree. On the use of steroids, he IS guilty though (he's admitted in a court of law that he's used them, and that can count as evidence).

Knowingly and unknowingly are two seperate things.

Knowingly and unknowingly are two seperate things.

Whether he knew it or not, it still counts as use.

Whether he knew it or not, it still counts as use.

That I can give you but to call someone a junkie means he knew. Besides, even in 2003, when he was tested, all the tests came back negative for steriods.

However, this does not take away that Bonds hit 756 Homeruns

*Jumps around and shouts*

That I can give you but to call someone a junkie means he knew. Besides, even in 2003, when he was tested, all the tests came back negative for steriods.

However, this does not take away that Bonds hit 756 Homeruns

*Jumps around and shouts*

I never called him a junkie. I did say that I hope someone that isn't juiced breaks the new record, that I didn't ever like Bonds, that he did testify under oath in a court of law, that he did use products that Greg Anderson gave him (that were found to be the cream and the clear), and that there were allegations that he perjured himself in the Balco grand jury.

And besides, in 2003 the cream and the clear didn't show up on steroids tests.

I never called him a junkie. I did say that I hope someone that isn't juiced breaks the new record, that I didn't ever like Bonds, that he did testify under oath in a court of law, that he did use products that Greg Anderson gave him (that were found to be the cream and the clear), and that there were allegations that he perjured himself in the Balco grand jury.

And besides, in 2003 the cream and the clear didn't show up on steroids tests.

The fact that they were also not illegal at the time either...

To all of those who say that Bonds used Steriods, please prove it.

1. He's under indictment in the BALCO case

2. Can you explain how a grown man's hat size increases dramatically after full formation without HGH? Really, my hat size is 7 3/4 and will be for the rest of my life.

3. Simply use logic. Look at Barry's progression over the years. He went from a lanky kid to a monster by... nutrition and lifting?

Yeah, like Aaron didn't use steroids:rolleyes:

And baseball hits a new low.

Should have put that roid-monkey out on his ass at home run number 754.

Knowingly and unknowingly are two seperate things.

read "ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it." Break the law in a state in which you don't live. Explain, "but I didn't knowingly break the law" and see where that gets you with the police and DA.

The fact that they were also not illegal at the time either...

Steroids were banned by MLB after the 2002 season, but taking steroids without a doctor's prescription has been illegal for quite a while.

Whether he knew it or not, it still counts as use.

Look, you wanna drop the fucker into the Hall of Shame, fine. Drop the next 98% of baseball players along with him then. If they're all juiced, why the fuck is everyone making such a deal about Bonds?

He hit 756 home runs. It was questionable if he took steroids before 2003. It was questionable if he took human growth hormone. Fine. Comdemn him. But condemn the other 98% of the other fuckers in the league, okay? Sit out McGwire, Sosa, Soriano, Ortiz, Ramirez, Pujols, Sheffield, Ordonez, Palmeiro, Gwynn, Ripken... but do it to all of them. Do it to all of the people that took amphetamines during the 1980s and on and on. Do it to all of the others that took cocaine in the 1970s and on and on. Do it to all the people before that, since news reporters had better things to do than snoop around players' locker rooms to find if they were on The Clear or HGH. But don't just condemn Bonds.

Not only that, take away the homers and Bonds still deserves to be in the Hall. With the home runs, he is the All Time leader and is the ONLY player in League history with more than 500 home runs and 250 stolen bases. The only with 7 career All Star apperances. He has 8 Gold Gloves. Take away the home runs, and the guy still belongs in the Hall.

But, if you just want to condemn him, fine. Then go talk to Conseco, Grimsley, and the two men that leaked information in his grand testimony hearing and ask them how many other MLB players have taken or may have taken "performance enhancing drugs."

It's an era, not a player.

Yeah, like Aaron didn't use steroids:rolleyes:

Nobody really reported those kinds of things during his era, so we wouldn't really know.

It's not like cocaine and HGH and steroids just poofed into existence in 1998... :rolleyes:

That I can give you but to call someone a junkie means he knew. Besides, even in 2003, when he was tested, all the tests came back negative for steriods.

However, this does not take away that Bonds hit 756 Homeruns

*Jumps around and shouts*

and "the clear" was designed to avoid detection specifically for that purpose. Barry Bond admitted to taking "the clear" because he thought it was "flaxseed oil." No shit, I didn't make that up it's what he claimed.

Look, you wanna drop the fucker into the Hall of Shame, fine. Drop the next 98% of baseball players along with him then. If they're all juiced, why the fuck is everyone making such a deal about Bonds?

He hit 756 home runs. It was questionable if he took steroids before 2003. It was questionable if he took human growth hormone. Fine. Comdemn him. But condemn the other 98% of the other fuckers in the league, okay? Sit out McGwire, Sosa, Soriano, Ortiz, Ramirez, Pujols, Sheffield, Ordonez, Palmeiro, Gwynn, Ripken... but do it to all of them. Do it to all of the people that took amphetamines during the 1980s and on and on. Do it to all of the others that took cocaine in the 1970s and on and on. Do it to all the people before that, since news reporters had better things to do than snoop around players' locker rooms to find if they were on The Clear or HGH. But don't just condemn Bonds.

Not only that, take away the homers and Bonds still deserves to be in the Hall. With the home runs, he is the All Time leader and is the ONLY player in League history with more than 500 home runs and 250 stolen bases. The only with 7 career All Star apperances. He has 8 Gold Gloves. Take away the home runs, and the guy still belongs in the Hall.

But, if you just want to condemn him, fine. Then go talk to Conseco, Grimsley, and the two men that leaked information in his grand testimony hearing and ask them how many other MLB players have taken or may have taken "performance enhancing drugs."

It's an era, not a player.

The reason people in this thread are making a big deal about Bonds is, this thread is about him.

As for Macguire, Sheffield, Palmiero, Canseco, Grimsley, and others that have been caught, I don't approve of what they've done either.

The reason people in this thread are making a big deal about Bonds is, this thread is about him.

As for Macguire, Sheffield, Palmiero, Canseco, Grimsley, and others that have been caught, I don't approve of what they've done either.

agreed, a cheat is a cheat

The reason people in this thread are making a big deal about Bonds is, this thread is about him.

As for Macguire, Sheffield, Palmiero, Canseco, Grimsley, and others that have been caught, I don't approve of what they've done either.

My point is there shouldn't BE a thread about Bonds. A thread about baseball and steroids is fine; but about Bonds is a bit ridiculous, considering the implicated widespread use of steroids within the majors.

Not only that, but even federal investigators have decided to ignore players like Rafael Palmeiro (tested positive for a performance enhancer after hitting hit no. 3000) and try to single out players like Barry Bonds only BECAUSE he is hitting so many home runs.

Knowingly and unknowingly are two seperate things.

Professional athletes should be damn sure of what they are taking. The NFL has suspended dozens of players who took pills that their trainers told them to. And those were usually OTC drugs which were obtained and used legally (by legal standards that is).

The "my trainer gave it to me" excuse is not valid in professional sports. It might hold up for criminal trials where intent must be proven, but it doesn't hold up under the standards of professional sports.

That I can give you but to call someone a junkie means he knew. Besides, even in 2003, when he was tested, all the tests came back negative for steriods.

However, this does not take away that Bonds hit 756 Homeruns

*Jumps around and shouts*The drug we know he took is HGH. Human Growth Hormone does not show up on current MLBPA tests. They would have to do a blood test to detect HGH. The MLBPA won't allow the Commissioner's Office to conduct that test.

And baseball hits a new low.

Should have put that roid-monkey out on his ass at home run number 754.

I wanted to see someone throw at his knees. They are really bad right now and one cutter that "missed" inside from a lefty would do the trick.

The reason people in this thread are making a big deal about Bonds is, this thread is about him.

As for Macguire, Sheffield, Palmiero, Canseco, Grimsley, and others that have been caught, I don't approve of what they've done either.

Agreed. That is why I still contend that the true single season homerun record belongs to Roger Maris with 61. I don't think Sosa used steroids, but he did use corked bats.

My point is there shouldn't BE a thread about Bonds. A thread about baseball and steroids is fine; but about Bonds is a bit ridiculous, considering the implicated widespread use of steroids within the majors.

Not only that, but even federal investigators have decided to ignore players like Rafael Palmeiro (tested positive for a performance enhancer after hitting hit no. 3000) and try to single out players like Barry Bonds only BECAUSE he is hitting so many home runs.
The thread is about Bonds because he broke the record tonight. Now if anyone asks me who the all-time HR record holder is, I will continue to say Hank Aaron until A-Rod or Pujols pass 755.

Barroids (Mr. HGH, wifebeater, liar, etc) just hit juiced HR # 756. :mad:

I've just lost a lot of respect for Hank Aaron and Willie Mays for congratulating the cheating asshole. I can sort of understand Mays being a friend of Bobby and all, but Aaron should be pissed that his record would be broken by that fat headed buffoon.

Thing is that Hank and Willie both have class. It wouldn't look good if either one of them protested Bonds HR record. Even though they would be right in my opinion it would tarnish the image that they have cultivated for themselves all these years.

I'm sorry this article isn't linked... it's from one year ago, and I couldn't find it archived. So I hand typed it - not just for Jolt, but for my coworkers as well. "*snip*", please, if you're going to reply to this:

Los Angeles Times

Sunday, May 28th, 2006

Inflated Players... and Numbers?
Analysts aren't so sure that baseball statistics have been stained by alleged steroid use.

~~
With Barry Bonds, the sports world's most famous suspected substance abuser, tied with Babe Ruth in career home runs, only 41 shy of Hank Aaron's all-time record, many observers are fretting that baseball's ledgers have been permanently compromised.

But those who study the numbers aren't so sure.

Steroids and other performance-enhancing substances "ought to upset baseball researchers as much as anybody, since we make our bread and butter out of the integrity of baseball's numbers," statistician Nate Silver wrote in the recent book "Baseball Between the Numbers," an anthology of analytical studies published by website Baseballprospectus.com.

The statisticians who pore over baseball's numbers with a devotion unmatched in any other sport - the study is known as "sabermetrics," after the Society for American Baseball Research, or SABR - have been looking for signs of a "steroid effect" for several years.

They've come up largely empty handed. [/1st page]

"The subject is as hotly debated in the statistical community," said J.C. Bradbury, an economist who runs the statistics website Sabernomics.com. Players "are getting bigger, and they're hitting more home runs. Why? The very obvious answer before us is steroids, but it's very difficult to test their impact simply by looking at data within the game."

Some doubt the riddle will ever be solved, partially because there is no solid information about which players used the illegal substances, in what years, and how they might have performed without them.

Of course, there's no lack of evidence that numerous players turned to steroids and other so-called performance-enhancing drugs in the last decade, and that some improved their statistics in that time. Several, including New York Yankees first baseman Jason Giambi, reportedly confessed to steroid use before a Bay Area grand jury in 2003 and others have admitted in books to illegal drug use while implicating other players.

These disclosures and others have shined a spotlight on some of the sport's biggest stars with the gaudiest records, including Bonds. Questions have also been raised about lesser players experiencing isolated but unexpectedly productive years.

Nor is there any question that baseball has experienced a surge in offensive power since the mid-1990s, a period that coincides with reports of increased steroid use in the game. In the National League, home runs per game increased to 1.01 from .92. Strikeouts per game also increased, but runs and hits per game remained nearly static in both leagues, suggesting that more hitters may have been swinging for the fences and, perhaps, pitchers' steroid use had increased as well.

None of that identifies steroids as the culprit. "It's well nigh impossible to ascribe any particular effect to any particular cause," said Neal D. Traven, cochairman of the statistical analysis committee at SABR.

For one thing, steroids have not been invariably a magic bullet for the kind of physical improvement that translates into success on the diamond. Some say that steroids, used haphazardly, can work against the kind of physical development needed for baseball or lead to physical breakdown.

According to "Game of Shadows," a book by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters based on secret grand jury testimony and other materials, Bonds' steroid use initially produced upper-body bulk that damaged his elbow, requiring surgery in 1999 and a nearly two-month layoff.

When he returned, he felt "muscle-bound and inflexible." Only after he added human growth hormone (another banned substance) to his chemical intake did his muscle quickness and flexibility improve to the point where his home run output might have been affected, the book says.

Some players have improved after quitting steroids, according to Silver, who studied the records of 76 major and minor leaguers suspended during 2005 for use of illegal performance-enhancing substances. Silver observed that most did decline after being suspended and presumably giving up drugs, but the difference was "just on the verge of being statistically significant." On the whole there was no "systematic, large-scale change."

"I always point out the difference between Jason Giambi and Jeremy Giambi," Silver said. "That tells part of the story."

Jason Giambi reportedly admitted to the 2003 grand jury that he took steroids as early as 2001, after which he hit an average of 40 homers a year for three years for the Oakland Athletics and New York Yankees before a run of injuries in 2004. Now presumably steroid-free, the Yankees' starting first baseman is leading the team with 12 home runs. His younger brother, who admitted 2003 steroid use to the grand jury, failed to match his peak home run season of the year before and was driven out of the major leagues by injuries and poor performance after 2003.

Steroids haven't been used only by hitters. Nearly half the major and minor league players snared by baseball's steroids testing program in 2005 were pitchers. "If both pitchers and batters are doing them, the effect would wash out," Traven said.

At least one analyst even doubts that the rise in home runs is sufficiently remarkable to require any explanation beyond sheer chance. The cluster of six 61-plus home run seaons by Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Barry Bonds from 1998 through 2001 is entirely consistent with the randomness of home run records, according to a 2006 paper by Arthur De Vany, an emeritus professor of economics at UC Irvine who runs a consulting firm.

"Steroids do not come into the picture," he wrote, "nor is there any need to invoke explanations that go beyond the natural variation of home run hitting, at-bats, chance, and the laws of extreme human accomplishment."

Statisticians are wary of giving steroids credit for the offensive explosion not only because their effects are hard to pin down, but because of other changes in the game. In his "Historical Baseball Abstract," published in 2001, Bill James, perhaps the best-known sabermetrician, listed six trends contributing to 1990s offense, of which only one - the rise of strength training - could even remotely be connected to steroid use. The others included changes in bat design that enhanced bat speed, changes in pitching and hitting styles that increased opposite-field home runs and, especially, a wave of new, hitter-friendly ballparks.

Seven of the 10 most hitter-friendly parks in major league baseball in 2005 (ranked by comparing home and road statistics by the home team) were built in the 1990s or later. At the top of the list is Denver's Coors Field, a high-altitude stadium so offense-enhancing that the Colorado Rockies led the National League in home runs in four of their first five years in the park; in 1997 the Rockies out-homered the runners-up in the category (the Dodgers and Atlanta Braves) by 65 homers despite finishing third in their division. (Note: They even installed a humidor at the park to make the balls fly out less...)

Others conjecture that the relationship between pitching and hitting has lost its equilibrium. "I have a general impression that pitchers have reached some sort of physical limit," Traven said. There's evidence that fastball speeds have reached a plateau short of 100 mph, while hitters still have room for improvement. "It may be chemicals, but also technique and training," he said.

Major league expansion in 1993 and 1998, which added four new teams, may have diluted pitching. Bradbury has compiled figures showing that the range of earned-run averages from worst to best among pitchers has reached a historical high. "If you have hitters taking advantage of lesser pitchers, you'll have an uptick in offense," he said.

For many fans, the chief exhibit for the effect of performance-enhancing substances on baseball remains the career of Bonds. Reporting by the San Francisco Chronicle and in "Game of Shadows" strongly indicates that bonds used such substances beginning in the late 1990s, just before embarking on a record-breaking offensive surge in 2000, the year he turned 36, including his record 73 home runs in 2001.

Nevertheless, without independent evidence of Bonds' drug use, statisticians say, there might be little reason to deduce it from his record alone. Some of Bonds' skills aren't commonly regarded as steroids-related, including his hand-eye coordination and his plate discipline.

Late-career power surges like Bonds' aren't unprecedented, although none has been so pronounced. Sean Forman, proprietor of the statistical website baseball-reference.com, observed in a study that Aaron recorded the highest home run rates of his career - that is, homers per balls put in play - at the ages of 37 and 39, when he hit 47 (the highest total of his career) and 40 homers, respectively. Ted Williams tied his second-best season home run total with 38 at the age of 38. Williams also recorded the best home run rate of his career at the age of 41, his last year as a player, when he hit 29 homers in only 113 games.

Yet no player has ever hit homers as prolifically after age 35 as Bonds - 220. "Bonds isn't unique, though he's certainly the best of the bunch," Forman said.

Thing is that Hank and Willie both have class. It wouldn't look good if either one of them protested Bonds HR record. Even though they would be right in my opinion it would tarnish the image that they have cultivated for themselves all these years.

That reminds me of a great sign Phillie fans brought to Citizens Bank Ballpark last year.

"Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer. Aaron did it with class. How did you do it Barry?"

They had 30 or 40 people holding that in LF all game.

Agreed. That is why I still contend that the true single season homerun record belongs to Roger Maris with 61. I don't think Sosa used steroids, but he did use corked bats.

When? Once? With a BP bat?

Or is this the Sosa-killer that we can't quite prove, but are sure that it's true anyway?

I wanted to see someone throw at his knees. They are really bad right now and one cutter that "missed" inside from a lefty would do the trick.

Wishing injury on a player you dislike/hate is totally unsportsmanlike. Get a life.

Wishing injury on a player you dislike/hate is totally unsportsmanlike. Get a life.

I don't like wife beaters. He is a sorry excuse for a human being. Besides that one pitcher on the Astros last year agrees with me.

Going after hitters is a part of the true game. The only reason you don't see it anymore is that the MLB Commissioner's Office has ordered umps to put a stop to it.

That reminds me of a great sign Phillie fans brought to Citizens Bank Ballpark last year.

"Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer. Aaron did it with class. How did you do it Barry?"

They had 30 or 40 people holding that in LF all game.

Did not see the highlights of that but it sounds good. That about sums it up right there. You know it will always be in the back of his mind.

Thing is that Hank and Willie both have class. It wouldn't look good if either one of them protested Bonds HR record. Even though they would be right in my opinion it would tarnish the image that they have cultivated for themselves all these years.

And when the next guy breaks this record, Bonds will do the samething as Hammerin Hank did.

I don't like wife beaters. He is a sorry excuse for a human being.

Ah. The very same that hugged his son after 755 and 56 and kissed his wife both times. That wife beater.

You're talking like a child and resorting to a strawman to wiggle yourself out of this one. You are acting like a sorry excuse for a human being. "cutter on the knee?" Really? Geez.

:rolleyes:

When? Once? With a BP bat?

Or is this the Sosa-killer that we can't quite prove, but are sure that it's true anyway?

OK, I'll admit my total disdain for the Flubs holds a part in that opinion, but Sosa knew damn well what he was doing with that bat.

These players sleep with their bats. A corked bat is lighter than a normal bat. Any player (even a high schooler) can tell a corked bat from a non corked bat.

"I wanted to see someone throw at his knees."

You're bullshitting. Get a life.

I don't like wife beaters.

May I see some proof of this please?

He is a sorry excuse for a human being. Besides that one pitcher on the Astros last year agrees with me.

Big woop. YOu will find people who will always find people who will agree with you. Big fucking deal.

Going after hitters is a part of the true game.

Yes but NOT with the attempt to injur. Attempting to injur someone is bad sportsmanship and they get shunned big time in the sports world.

The only reason you don't see it anymore is that the MLB Commissioner's Office has ordered umps to put a stop to it.

I don't know. Seems to be an awful lot of chin music being played. Of course, Clemens got ejected for beaning someone tonight after one of his players got beaned. Serves him right. Two wrongs does not make a right.

And when the next guy breaks this record, Bonds will do the samething as Hammerin Hank did.

He will have to. It is one thing is someone is truly happy for you and another to fake it and smile but deep down loathing the person. Barry will have to be polite to the next person that breaks the record if he wants to maintain his dignity with his supporters.

Also want to add that I don't hate Barry but I don't care for the guy. He seems like an arrogant asshole to me.

Barroids (Mr. HGH, wifebeater, liar, etc) just hit juiced HR # 756. :mad:

I've just lost a lot of respect for Hank Aaron and Willie Mays for congratulating the cheating asshole. I can sort of understand Mays being a friend of Bobby and all, but Aaron should be pissed that his record would be broken by that fat headed buffoon.

I can't say I care all that much...I haven't payed much attention to baseball since the strike in 94.

Well, at least people don't have to wait for the Cataclysm to watch Juicer Baseball.

Wishing injury on a player you dislike/hate is totally unsportsmanlike. Get a life.

whereas cheating is A OK?

Bonds has disgraced both baseball and the idea of 'sportsmanship.'

He deserves what he gets

Quoth the bard "The worse to [him] the better loved of me"

whereas cheating is A OK?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaylord_Perry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitball

Well, at least people don't have to wait for the Cataclysm to watch Juicer Baseball.

LOL! It took me a second to realize the reference, but I've got it now. :D

I'm torn. On one hand, I have absolutely no problem with performance enhancing drugs provided they are legal, safe, and standardized...but none of those three apply to what Bonds did. He used illegal, dangerous drugs to enhance his performance and that gave him an edge nobody else could counteract without endangering their health and career. It was a completely unfair advantage.

At the same time, however, he did earn that record; steroids made him stronger and more capable of hitting home runs, but it still required skill to hit those home runs in the first place. Without that skill, all the drugs in the world couldn't help him break Aaron's record.

I really don't know what to think, honestly.

Not to mention that many of the pitchers he hit them off of were also using a bit of artificial assistance. Barry's not the only guy in baseball to use steroids, even if he gets the most press for doing so. It's a pretty rampant problem.

The drug we know he took is HGH. Human Growth Hormone does not show up on current MLBPA tests. They would have to do a blood test to detect HGH. The MLBPA won't allow the Commissioner's Office to conduct that test.

Because like half of major league players will fail it.

Agreed. That is why I still contend that the true single season homerun record belongs to Roger Maris with 61. I don't think Sosa used steroids, but he did use corked bats.

Ah, the days when you put stuff in your bat, not your body, to cheat. How I wish baseball could return to that time.

Would you people stop it already? Records are meant to be broken. His will be broken one day also. Not to mention the fact that baseball is absolute rubbish...and barely, if at all, is a sport.

I'm torn. On one hand, I have absolutely no problem with performance enhancing drugs provided they are legal, safe, and standardized...but none of those three apply to what Bonds did. He used illegal, dangerous drugs to enhance his performance and that gave him an edge nobody else could counteract without endangering their health and career. It was a completely unfair advantage.

At the same time, however, he did earn that record; steroids made him stronger and more capable of hitting home runs, but it still required skill to hit those home runs in the first place. Without that skill, all the drugs in the world couldn't help him break Aaron's record.

I really don't know what to think, honestly.

Right. And having the answer key to your teacher's next test won't help unless you memorize it.

I remember when Aaron got the record. Every time he came up to bat for the tie and the win the TV networks cut into programing so everyone could watch.

Bonds will never have that type of respect. Aaron really stole the show by having the class to concede gracefully. People will remember that. The contrast in the class of Bonds and Aaron will be remembered.

Barroids (Mr. HGH, wifebeater, liar, etc) just hit juiced HR # 756. :mad:

I've just lost a lot of respect for Hank Aaron and Willie Mays for congratulating the cheating asshole. I can sort of understand Mays being a friend of Bobby and all, but Aaron should be pissed that his record would be broken by that fat headed buffoon.

You'd be defending him if he were wearing a White Sox uniform and you know it. Drop the holier than thou shit already.

I remember when Aaron got the record. Every time he came up to bat for the tie and the win the TV networks cut into programing so everyone could watch.

Bonds will never have that type of respect. Aaron really stole the show by having the class to concede gracefully. People will remember that. The contrast in the class of Bonds and Aaron will be remembered.

You know, the moment I flipped into the 'Barry Bonds Hater' column was the moment he tried to compare his struggles to Henry Aaron's. He started talking about how he was receiving hate mail because he was challenging the record and all that, except there's a difference.

People sent Aaron vile, despicable, racist tripe. They threatened him merely for the color of his skin, and what did Aaron do in the face of such hate, such vile human bigotry? He met it head on with dignity, and every swing he took was an act of defiance against those people who called him names like ******.

While entirely uncivil and uncalled for, Bonds received hate mail for an entirely different reason: the perception that he was cheating at the game. People sensed something was amiss and they bitched about it.

Bonds was also combative and uncooperative when the sports media started to question his role in the BALCO doping scandal. He was uncooperative and belligerent when he dealt with the media. He did not distinguish between legitimate concerns and bullshit. The same persona that would have gotten him voted off of the Arizona State team if the coach hadn't nullified the player's vote.

anyone explained to me yet how a grown man's head becomes larger after the age of 30? Then I'll agree he didn't take HGH. A cheat is a cheat. Giambi (and I'm a die hard Yankee fan) Sheffield (again) Sosa, etc. are all a bunch of cheats and have disparaged the game. I don't care what uniform you where, you cheat and I'll call you a no good cheat. Really, my hat size is 7 3/4, has been and will be for the rest of my days. How did Barry's head get so big and I'm not talking about his ego? Let's see where his indictment on perjury charges leads.

And don't get me wrong, I liked Bonds once upon a time. I was an avid baseball card collector through the end of middle school, so I kept up with the game as a side effect of that hobby. He was decidedly one of the greats of the game, 500 HR's, 500 steals was quite an accomplishment. And, regardless of the doping, he deserves in the Hall of Fame for what he did before the BALCO days.

My issue is that I feel the steroids did more than just bulk Bonds up. I feel that they extended his years of power, when it would have made more sense that he would be declining. Essentially the same argument that Bob Costas has made on national television.

And don't get me wrong, I liked Bonds once upon a time. I was an avid baseball card collector through the end of middle school, so I kept up with the game as a side effect of that hobby. He was decidedly one of the greats of the game, 500 HR's, 500 steals was quite an accomplishment. And, regardless of the doping, he deserves in the Hall of Fame for what he did before the BALCO days.

My issue is that I feel the steroids did more than just bulk Bonds up. I feel that they extended his years of power, when it would have made more sense that he would be declining. Essentially the same argument that Bob Costas has made on national television.

IMHO you are spot on.

It's fairly clear that he used illegal performance enhancing drugs. He probably did
.

It's also becoming rapidly more clear that the prosecutors will get the perjury indictment against Bonds for that misbegotten statement fairly soon.I dont see it happening.

Congratulations Barry Bonds.
seconded
Congratulations Barry.


May the record stand for as long as it did this time around.I am looking forward for A-Rod to go all the way.

I am looking forward for A-Rod go all the way.

Same here. I may loathe the Yankees, but A-Rod is just such a good player I can't help but root for him. I hope he does live up to his 850 HR potential, such a high number would be absolutely phenomenal.

To all of those who say that Bonds used Steriods, please prove it.:rolleyes:

that would be as difficult as to prove that Armstrong was juiced.

and way more difficult than to prove that OJ was the killer.

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

That's only in a court of law, guy. The court of public opinion and certainly my opinion has no such stringent rules; we can't send any one to jail.

All you need to convince me? Look at the fucker's neck.
But I don't really care about this. It's baseball, a sport I've never been able to sit through for more than an inning.

Please prove-beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt that Bonds used performance Enhancing Drugs illegally.LOL
beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt ???

dude I cant prove-beyond-the-shadow-of-a-doubt that I ate all my vegetables today, how the hell do you expect me to prove you what Barry bonds is taking for breakfast?

BTW welcome back Corny :D
I hope I am not being too rough on your first day back ;)

You know, the moment I flipped into the 'Barry Bonds Hater' column was the moment he tried to compare his struggles to Henry Aaron's. He started talking about how he was receiving hate mail because he was challenging the record and all that, except there's a difference.

People sent Aaron vile, despicable, racist tripe. They threatened him merely for the color of his skin, and what did Aaron do in the face of such hate, such vile human bigotry? He met it head on with dignity, and every swing he took was an act of defiance against those people who called him names like ******.

While entirely uncivil and uncalled for, Bonds received hate mail for an entirely different reason: the perception that he was cheating at the game. People sensed something was amiss and they bitched about it.

Bonds was also combative and uncooperative when the sports media started to question his role in the BALCO doping scandal. He was uncooperative and belligerent when he dealt with the media. He did not distinguish between legitimate concerns and bullshit. The same persona that would have gotten him voted off of the Arizona State team if the coach hadn't nullified the player's vote.

Bonds got shitloads of racist hate mail as well. Don't for a moment think that there's not a racist element to this.

Sportswriters have been taking their pounds of flesh out of Bonds since well before the steroids allegations started--they never liked him and he returned their disdain--but the less than evenhanded way they've singled him out in this has been beyond ridiculous. They make gestures toward the whole "presumption of innocence" while simultaneously putting asterisks after his name. But in the end, no one will remember them, but baseball fans, for better or worse, will remember Barry Bonds..

I hope he hits 50 this season and comes back for more. I hope he breaks 800 before it's all over.

Bonds got shitloads of racist hate mail as well. Don't for a moment think that there's not a racist element to this.

Sportswriters have been taking their pounds of flesh out of Bonds since well before the steroids allegations started--they never liked him and he returned their disdain--but the less than evenhanded way they've singled him out in this has been beyond ridiculous. They make gestures toward the whole "presumption of innocence" while simultaneously putting asterisks after his name. But in the end, no one will remember them, but baseball fans, for better or worse, will remember Barry Bonds..



Sportswriters disliked Bonds because of how he treated them, how he treated his teammates and how he treated fans in general. You don't treat the media like their some sort of inborn opponent, you meet them with good humor and congeniality. He has historically been mean-spirited and combative. He's haughty and full of himself.

More than that, his struggles cannot even be remotely compared to the shit Aaron put up with. Boo-hoo, poor unhappy Barry Bonds gets hate mail that's sometimes racist. Hardly what Aaron had to deal with.

And don't pull that 'if he was on your team, you'd love him' deal with me. Back in the day the Indians had Albert/Joey Bell who was a great homerun hitter, but a total douche. I loathed him, and cheered when he went to Baltimore.

Sportswriters disliked Bonds because of how he treated them, how he treated his teammates and how he treated fans in general. You don't treat the media like their some sort of inborn opponent, you meet them with good humor and congeniality. He has historically been mean-spirited and combative. He's haughty and full of himself.

More than that, his struggles cannot even be remotely compared to the shit Aaron put up with. Boo-hoo, poor unhappy Barry Bonds gets hate mail that's sometimes racist. Hardly what Aaron had to deal with.

Aaron also didn't have the 24/7 sports coverage to deal with like Bonds does. Bonds is hardly the first player to treat the media with disdain, but he has taken more than his share of shit for doing so. But even if he were, why should baseball players be forced to bow and scrape before the media? There's at least as many asshole sports reporters as there are asshole athletes, but the reporters control the medium, control the way these athletes are presented to the public. I'm not saying that Bonds is really a cuddly human being--obviously he isn't--but he's certainly not alone in that category.

The only baseball player I have any respect for (in our day and age) is Cal Ripken, Jr.

Cheating, drugs, and gambling appear so pervasive in most modern sports, that I don't bother to watch them.