NationStates Jolt Archive

As any rational fellow would easily conclude, abstinence-only programs are not that effective, if at all. The thing is, HUMANS ARE FUCKING ANIMALS and cannot resist what is instinct. Sorry for the cursing...

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070803/hl_nm/abstinence_hiv_dc)

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - In high income countries, programs that encourage abstinence from sex as the only method of preventing HIV infection are not effective in achieving this goal, findings from a review of trial data suggest.

As reported in this week's issue of the British Medical Journal, Dr. Kristen Underhill and colleagues, from the University of Oxford in the UK, searched 30 electronic databases to identify studies that examined the effectiveness of abstinence-only programs as a means of preventing HIV infection. Data from 13 trials, containing nearly 16,000 U.S. youth, were included in their analysis.

Compared with no program, safer sex programs, and various other control programs, the abstinence-only programs did not seem to reduce HIV risk. Specifically, abstinence-only programs did not influence the rate of unprotected vaginal sex, the number of sexual partners, condom use, or initiation of sexual activity.

In one trial, there was evidence that abstinence-only programs may have had an adverse effect. Compared with a comparison group of young people who did not participate in an HIV prevention program, abstinence-only programs were associated with a rise in sexually transmitted infections and pregnancy. Still, the authors note that other trials did not show a significant link between abstinence-only programs and these outcomes.

In another trial, there was a suggestion that abstinence-only programs may reduce levels of vaginal sex, but the follow-up period was relatively short.

"In contrast to abstinence only programs, programs that promote the use of condoms greatly reduce the risk of acquiring HIV, especially when such programs are culturally tailored behavioral interventions targeting people at highest risk of HIV infection," Dr. Stephen E. Hawes, from the University of Washington in Seattle, and colleagues note in a relate editorial.

Not news, really. I've seen similar studies before looking at abstinence indoctrination.

They don't push for protection simply because they need more troops for Iraq.

As any rational fellow would easily conclude, abstinence-only programs are not that effective, if at all. The thing is, HUMANS ARE FUCKING ANIMALS and cannot resist what is instinct. Sorry for the cursing...

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070803/hl_nm/abstinence_hiv_dc)

abstinence only leads to ear sex...

And so does sex education. They are both equal in what they do. Which is nothing.

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

As any rational fellow would easily conclude, abstinence-only programs are not that effective, if at all. The thing is, HUMANS ARE FUCKING ANIMALS and cannot resist what is instinct. Sorry for the cursing...

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070803/hl_nm/abstinence_hiv_dc)

And this has been news since when? There were studies like this before.

And so does sex education. They are both equal in what they do. Which is nothing.

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

And give them dildos!

Thats not fair, I was never taught how to masturbate...I had to teach myself



I feel your pain.

And so does sex education. They are both equal in what they do. Which is nothing.

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

Thats not fair, I was never taught how to masturbate...I had to teach myself
:(:p

If it hurts when you masturbate you're doing it wrong.:D

I found out on accident.

I found out on accident.

Is that a Britishism? Because, Americans would say by accident...

If it hurts when you masturbate you're doing it wrong.:D

Rug burn on your penis? :eek:

Thats not fair, I was never taught how to masturbate...I had to teach myself
:(:p

I know,ain't it a shame!

I feel your pain.

Better be the only thing of his you are feeling :p

And give them dildos!

Dang, NSG is full of laughs tonight :D

Is that a Britishism? Because, Americans would say by accident...

Sadly, that's not the case. I always thought we said "by accident," but I've been hearing "on" more and more. It's not pleasant. :(

They don't push for protection simply because they need more troops for Iraq.

Surely you don't think we'll be there in 2025? I should hope not, at least. :p

Sadly, that's not the case. I always thought we said "by accident," but I've been hearing "on" more and more. It's not pleasant. :(

Really? Maybe it's regional?

Really? Maybe it's regional?

Could be. I'm from the mid-west originally, and never heard anyone say "on" until I lived in the south and west. But that's anecdotal, really. There might be something to it, though.

abstinence only leads to ear sex...

Link, dammit!

*I need another Meg fix*

I feel your pain.

Don't be so selfish.
Share your pain with us, both of you.

If it hurts when you masturbate you're doing it wrong.:D

Not a catsup bottle?
o.0

God is watching you masturbate.

And so does sex education. They are both equal in what they do. Which is nothing.

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

It's easy to figure out on your own.

God is watching you masturbate.

...I don't think I'm going to ever be able to do it again after reading that... and I'm an atheist...

...I don't think I'm going to ever be able to do it again after reading that... and I'm an atheist...

Personally, I'm more concerned about Santa Claus.
Old bearded fat guy watching people, especially kids, all the time.

...I don't think I'm going to ever be able to do it again after reading that... and I'm an atheist...

Someone's not much of an exhibitionist. :p

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/115/299002774_57eda594c3.jpg?v=0

God is watching you masturbate.

I'd be more worried about ceiling cat watching you masturbate... *nods*

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

:eek: That would have been gross if they had taught me to do weird things to myself that I don't want to do. I wasn't even sure what sex meant in middle school, and I didn't have any idea what masturbate meant until like this year, and it's still only vague, luckily.

As any rational fellow would easily conclude, abstinence-only programs are not that effective, if at all. The thing is, HUMANS ARE FUCKING ANIMALS and cannot resist what is instinct. Sorry for the cursing...

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070803/hl_nm/abstinence_hiv_dc)

ummm... not all fundies believe in abstinence...

:eek: That would have been gross if they had taught me to do weird things to myself that I don't want to do. I wasn't even sure what sex meant in middle school, and I didn't have any idea what masturbate meant until like this year, and it's still only vague, luckily.You are indeed fortunate to have been spared the most basic understanding of your own body. Oh how I envy you...

There's nothing weird or gross about it. You've just had your head filled with shit by assholes who definitely do not have your personal wellbeing at heart. Alas, you'll probably never figure out you don't have to be ashamed of yourself.

You are indeed fortunate to have been spared the most basic understanding of your own body. Oh how I envy you...

There's nothing weird or gross about it. You've just had your head filled with shit by assholes who definitely do not have your personal wellbeing at heart. Alas, you'll probably never figure out you don't have to be ashamed of yourself.

But I've never wanted to do that, so it's good that no one tried to teach me to do that. And when my own body is so ugly (at least those parts are) it's good that I don't have to know about it.

I'd be more worried about ceiling cat watching you masturbate... *nods*

yes. Cats pounce at movement.

yes. Cats pounce at movement.

My BF's cats are not allowed in the bedroom for just that reason ;)

There was an... incident, a while back

You are indeed fortunate to have been spared the most basic understanding of your own body. Oh how I envy you...

There's nothing weird or gross about it. You've just had your head filled with shit by assholes who definitely do not have your personal wellbeing at heart. Alas, you'll probably never figure out you don't have to be ashamed of yourself.

Took me some time to figure that out, but I came round eventually. There's always hope for everyone ;)

My BF's cats are not allowed in the bedroom for just that reason ;)

There was an... incident, a while back

yes, I know this. It happened to a friend once, apparently dangling scrot looks like toys for kitty

he was in a lot of pain, I was the only one who would medicate him....his wife was "afraid to touch it" :rolleyes: I feel so sorry for him.

Why does the study only concern HIV infection?

yes, I know this. It happened to a friend once, apparently dangling scrot looks like toys for kitty

he was in a lot of pain, I was the only one who would medicate him....his wife was "afraid to touch it" :rolleyes: I feel so sorry for him.

She was.... what now? :eek:

Smunkee, I'm sorry to say that, but you know some strange folks :D

Surely you don't think we'll be there in 2025? I should hope not, at least. :p

Remember, this is the abstinence only crowd we're talking about. They oppose pulling out. :D

Fuck abstinence...no paradox intended...

But I've never wanted to do that, so it's good that no one tried to teach me to do that. And when my own body is so ugly (at least those parts are) it's good that I don't have to know about it.

Why do you find your genitals ugly? o.O I mean, really, knowing your own body well and not being ashamed or repulsed by it or ANY part of it....that's pretty necessary for basic health.

yes, I know this. It happened to a friend once, apparently dangling scrot looks like toys for kitty

he was in a lot of pain, I was the only one who would medicate him....his wife was "afraid to touch it" :rolleyes: I feel so sorry for him.

His own wife was freaked out by it? *blink* oh dear.

She was.... what now? :eek:

Smunkee, I'm sorry to say that, but you know some strange folks :D

I couldn't figure out if she was afraid to touch it because it was hurt and she didn't want to hurt him (I could understand that maybe) or if she just never touched that part of his body......(which I don't understand so much since they have 3 kids.....)

There are lots of women who don't know that the scrotum can be a source of pleasure for a man.
Or a source of pain, as NutCracker Kitty demonstrated.

Seriously?
But how can they miss that? It's so obvious!

HUMANS ARE FUCKING ANIMALSEr...which humans do you know? <Backs away.>
:p

I couldn't figure out if she was afraid to touch it because it was hurt and she didn't want to hurt him (I could understand that maybe) or if she just never touched that part of his body......(which I don't understand so much since they have 3 kids.....)There are lots of women who don't know that the scrotum can be a source of pleasure for a man.
Or a source of pain, as NutCracker Kitty demonstrated.

Fuck abstinence...no paradox intended...

I am surprised hearing that come from you.

Seriously?
But how can they miss that? It's so obvious!

it is kinda intimidating until you have someone who will let you explore......

Why do you find your genitals ugly? o.O I mean, really, knowing your own body well and not being ashamed or repulsed by it or ANY part of it....that's pretty necessary for basic health.

They just... are. I don't know exactly why. Just looks so weird I guess...

I hate American sex education.

They just... are. I don't know exactly why. Just looks so weird I guess...

Everything you're not used to seems weird. Don't worry about it, as long as it doesn't turn pathological (like BIID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotemnophilia)).

You will either grow used to them in time, or you won't. Personally, I can guarantee you that you'll be happier if you at some stage learn to accept yourself entirely, if not for the common bliss of love then simply for the relief of not fighting your own body constantly.
But that is something you will have to figure out yourself, and you will have to want to figure out. We can give you all the good advise in the world, but for being happy and content you have to want it first. Currently, from what I can tell from your postings so far, you want to be the outsider, the special case, the one who has to fight. :)

it is kinda intimidating until you have someone who will let you explore......

Huh... can't say I ever met a guy who was unhappy about me exploring ;)

Took me some time to figure that out, but I came round eventually. There's always hope for everyone ;)There isn't really, though. Having notions we can use to establish and maintain group identity and hierarchy is apparently too important for us to consider the implications and validity of those notions. That religion uses this particular notion that way, doesn't exactly help things either.

There isn't really, though. Having notions we can use to establish and maintain group identity and hierarchy is apparently too important for us to consider the implications and validity of those notions. That religion uses this particular notion that way, doesn't exactly help things either.

I never said there was certainty for everybody, but I do think that everyone has the potential to break out of the established and imprinted patterns of thinking and find their own individual way, be that in regards to sexuality or anything else really.

I never said there was certainty for everybody, but I do think that everyone has the potential to break out of the established and imprinted patterns of thinking and find their own individual way, be that in regards to sexuality or anything else really.Agreed, but the likelyhood of such realizations occuring seems purely theoretical for the majority of us.

I think abstinence should be classified as torture in the criminal code.

Agreed, but the likelyhood of such realizations occuring seems purely theoretical for the majority of us.

Oh, I've witnessed quite a few in my time. I can't say much about the likelihood without speculating, and that would be rather pointless.
But people can and do change. In many cases a change in attitude is facilitated by a change in the outer circumstances, say, by moving somewhere new, by getting a new job, or simply by discovering an online forum such as NSG. Anything that opens up new perspectives and brings one into contact with new opinions.

Everything you're not used to seems weird. Don't worry about it, as long as it doesn't turn pathological (like BIID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotemnophilia)).

You will either grow used to them in time, or you won't. Personally, I can guarantee you that you'll be happier if you at some stage learn to accept yourself entirely, if not for the common bliss of love then simply for the relief of not fighting your own body constantly.
But that is something you will have to figure out yourself, and you will have to want to figure out. We can give you all the good advise in the world, but for being happy and content you have to want it first. Currently, from what I can tell from your postings so far, you want to be the outsider, the special case, the one who has to fight. :)

It's just I don't think I should have to like it just because I was born with it. I accept that it's there of course, but it seems weird. I don't see how I'm fighting my body, and I am very happy without liking the way that the look, because they do look gross.

But people can and do change.We don't disagree at all, I'm just much less optimistic about it than you. But I hope yours is the more accurate guesstimate.I think abstinence should be classified as torture in the criminal code.Hardly. But I do think it's best viewed as racism, animal cruelty, and other similar screwed up ideas we encourage each other not to pass on to our offspring.

Hardly. But I do think it's best viewed as racism, animal cruelty, and other similar screwed up ideas we encourage each other not to pass on to our offspring.

:confused: What? Are you saying people shouldn't be able to choose to not have sex? I'm probably just too tired and misreading it...

:confused: What? Are you saying people shouldn't be able to choose to not have sex? I'm probably just too tired and misreading it...Of course not. It was in the context of teaching/indoctrinating children and teenagers.

What you do or don't do is your business. Which was sort of my point; teaching kids not to have sex, is a gross violation of their autonomy. Apart from the physical harm, it's right up there with teaching kids to develop Anorexia nervosa.

Of course not. It was in the context of teaching/indoctrinating children and teenagers.

What you do or don't do is your business. Which was sort of my point; teaching kids not to have sex, is a gross violation of their autonomy. Apart from the physical harm, it's right up there with teaching kids to develop Anorexia nervosa.

Ok. That makes more sense then. The post you responded to said that they thought abstinence should be in the criminal code, not abstinence indoctrination, so I got a bit confused.

Yeah, I like the way they taught about it here. They told us that abstinence was the best way to not get pregnant/not get an STD but they taught about other things, too.

In my sex education class, the teacher basically pulled down a graph with a bunch if statistics on it (likelihood of pregnancy and STD if you have unprotected sex, likelihood with condom (typical and perfect use), likelihood with condom with spermicide, ect. and said "this is the information. make your own choice."

It's just I don't think I should have to like it just because I was born with it. I accept that it's there of course, but it seems weird. I don't see how I'm fighting my body, and I am very happy without liking the way that the look, because they do look gross.

4 contradictions in one post ;)
Nobody says you have to like yourself. All I said is you'd be happier if you did, but that's a choice you have to make yourself.
Wouldn't you agree that people who accept themselves the way they are and are happy with their bodies as well as their minds are happier than people who think their bodies are gross? And wouldn't you say that considering something gross is not exactly accepting it but being mentally opposed to it at least?
I'm not saying you're not happy, I'm in no position whatsoever to judge that. People can be happy in virtually every circumstances, after all.

yes, I know this. It happened to a friend once, apparently dangling scrot looks like toys for kitty

he was in a lot of pain, I was the only one who would medicate him....his wife was "afraid to touch it" :rolleyes: I feel so sorry for him.

That must have been one really awkward wedding night your friend had.

Huh... can't say I ever met a guy who was unhappy about me exploring ;)

you don't live where I live. The land of "privates are dirty". :(

Luckily my man doesn't have that particular complex, so any time I want to explore he is very good with that. :cool:

4 contradictions in one post ;)
Nobody says you have to like yourself. All I said is you'd be happier if you did, but that's a choice you have to make yourself.
Wouldn't you agree that people who accept themselves the way they are and are happy with their bodies as well as their minds are happier than people who think their bodies are gross? And wouldn't you say that considering something gross is not exactly accepting it but being mentally opposed to it at least?
I'm not saying you're not happy, I'm in no position whatsoever to judge that. People can be happy in virtually every circumstances, after all.

Oh. I didn't see any contradictions. :(
I do like myself, but my genitals are not me, they're just one part of the body, and the body is not me, just a small part.
They probably are happier, but I'm very happy as I am now. And sometimes I don't see how bodies can be anything but gross. I mean, all the bones sticking out everywhere and sweat and other icky things...it just all seems so gross and awkward.
I accept its existence but I just think it's really gross.

Oh. I didn't see any contradictions. :(
I do like myself, but my genitals are not me, they're just one part of the body, and the body is not me, just a small part.
They probably are happier, but I'm very happy as I am now. And sometimes I don't see how bodies can be anything but gross. I mean, all the bones sticking out everywhere and sweat and other icky things...it just all seems so gross and awkward.
I accept its existence but I just think it's really gross.

Chan, seriously, if you were happy with the situation as it is, would you feel the need to keep posting and posting about it on NSG? You don't need to answer, but please think about it for a moment.

And, yes, you genitals are you. Just like your liver is you, and your hair is you, and your smile is you, and your fascination with the Phantom of the Opera is you. They are part of the whole. Without them, you wouldn't be you. You wouldn't be whole.

One question : Do you think your cats are gross? They're flesh and bone, they eat gross things, they poop and pee, they lick their own bums, I don't know if you let them out or not, but if you do they might come home with fleas and ticks. My guess is you still don't think they're gross... then why would humans be?

you don't live where I live. The land of "privates are dirty". :(

Luckily my man doesn't have that particular complex, so any time I want to explore he is very good with that. :cool:

*lol I still have a hard time believing that any guy would say no to a blowjob, even where you live. So there's no excuse to object to a little exploration ;)

Chan, seriously, if you were happy with the situation as it is, would you feel the need to keep posting and posting about it on NSG? You don't need to answer, but please think about it for a moment.

And, yes, you genitals are you. Just like your liver is you, and your hair is you, and your smile is you, and your fascination with the Phantom of the Opera is you. They are part of the whole. Without them, you wouldn't be you. You wouldn't be whole.

One question : Do you think your cats are gross? They're flesh and bone, they eat gross things, they poop and pee, they lick their own bums, I don't know if you let them out or not, but if you do they might come home with fleas and ticks. My guess is you still don't think they're gross... then why would humans be?

It's just confusing because how I feel about it keeps changing. Most of the time I don't really care about, so I don't post about it then, and then sometimes I even think that I might look good, but then other times I feel really bad, and that's usually when I post about it.

It's part of me but it's not who I am.

Cats are beautiful and graceful, and they're not gross. I think they're among the most beautiful creatures or things I've ever seen. But I tried on a dress the other day because my cousin wanted me too and you could see my hip bones through the dress. It looked so weird and gross. :(

It's part of me but it's not who I am.

That's the main contradiction right now ;)


Cats are beautiful and graceful, and they're not gross. I think they're among the most beautiful creatures or things I've ever seen. But I tried on a dress the other day because my cousin wanted me too and you could see my hip bones through the dress. It looked so weird and gross. :(

Cats can be extremely gross indeed. Have you ever seen a cat give birth, lick the kittens clean and then eat the afterbirth?
And humans are beautiful. They can have smiles that warm your heart, they can be pure pleasure and joy to look at.
It's all a matter of choosing the perspective.

And if that dress didn't suit you, get a diffrent one. Nobody looks good in about everything, clothes are about showing off what you want to show off ;)

That's the main contradiction right now ;)

Cats can be extremely gross indeed. Have you ever seen a cat give birth, lick the kittens clean and then eat the afterbirth?
And humans are beautiful. They can have smiles that warm your heart, they can be pure pleasure and joy to look at.
It's all a matter of choosing the perspective.

And if that dress didn't suit you, get a diffrent one. Nobody looks good in about everything, clothes are about showing off what you want to show off ;)

I just don't see why it should be that important of a part. It's just for getting rid of wastes. Should I love my garbage cans too?

They can do some gross things, but it's different because they're so wonderful.

Maybe, but I don't see that. Well, usually I can recognie some level of beauty in everyone, but the more of the body is showing the harder that it is. So I guess since I've seen myself without clothes it's harder for me to see anything beautiful about myself. Seeing all the bones poking out and the skin is strange.

I thought bones weren't supposed to stick out that much though. :(

I just don't see why it should be that important of a part. It's just for getting rid of wastes. Should I love my garbage cans too?

They've got as much purpose as you let them have. Do you think your eyes are disgusting because they see gross things?


They can do some gross things, but it's different because they're so wonderful.

You have more integrity than that, come on.


Maybe, but I don't see that. Well, usually I can recognie some level of beauty in everyone, but the more of the body is showing the harder that it is. So I guess since I've seen myself without clothes it's harder for me to see anything beautiful about myself. Seeing all the bones poking out and the skin is strange.

I thought bones weren't supposed to stick out that much though. :(

Well, mine certainly don't. But I'm not going to start giving you advise on weight, I'm most definitely not qualified for that.

I just don't see why it should be that important of a part. It's just for getting rid of wastes. Should I love my garbage cans too?

*jumps in randomly*

Well, the genitals are kind of required for the survival of the human race. I understand this doesn't apply to you, but, well, that's what they do. I don't see why you should love your garbage cans, but they are pretty damn important.

They've got as much purpose as you let them have. Do you think your eyes are disgusting because they see gross things?

You have more integrity than that, come on.

Well, mine certainly don't. But I'm not going to start giving you advise on weight, I'm most definitely not qualified for that.

No. Though I think they'd be kind of disgusting to touch. They look like they'd feel slimy...

It's just with cats I love them so much that I can overlook it when they do gross things.

Ok. It just feels weird to be able to see all of those bones. :(

*jumps in randomly*

Well, the genitals are kind of required for the survival of the human race. I understand this doesn't apply to you, but, well, that's what they do. I don't see why you should love your garbage cans, but they are pretty damn important.

Like you said, not to me. Well, they're fine as long as they get rid of the waste fine. Other than that I see no purpose for them that would apply to me.

Yeah, I like the way they taught about it here. They told us that abstinence was the best way to not get pregnant/not get an STD but they taught about other things, too.Abstinence isn't the best way to avoid anything, it's a way not to do something. Teaching kids abstinence in sex-ed is worse than teaching kids to wear blindfolds and earplugs in English Lit.

Why? Because it is teaching them that normal human sexuality, is neither human or normal. Your body and all you can do with it, is an integral part of who and what you are. If you've been taught to think, or by yourself come to think otherwise, you're not fully human. Since you're physically a human being, chances are it's gonna make you miserable to try to be something else. Since you're a social critter, chances are even better that you're gonna experience problems and discomfort in your interactions with other human beings.

It's bullshit, and it's a fucking cruel path to send kids down in life. Even if you're perfectly fine with yourself, you should not endorse your peers are spoonfed shit in school. They've done nothing to deserve that kind of abuse.

Abstinence isn't the best way to avoid anything, it's a way not to do something. Teaching kids abstinence in sex-ed is worse than teaching kids to wear blindfolds and earplugs in English Lit.

Why? Because it is teaching them that normal human sexuality, is neither human or normal. Your body and all you can do with it, is an integral part of who and what you are. If you've been taught to think, or by yourself come to think otherwise, you're not fully human. Since you're physically a human being, chances are it's gonna make you miserable to try to be something else. Since you're a social critter, chances are even better that you're gonna experience problems and discomfort in your interactions with other human beings.

It's bullshit, and it's a fucking cruel path to send kids down in life. Even if you're perfectly fine with yourself, you should not endorse your peers are spoonfed shit in school. They've done nothing to deserve that kind of abuse.

It's not something I want though, so trying to teach me that I should do things I don't want to do would make me feel like I'm not a human, and it has before. Maybe you're saying I'm some sort of subhuman creature just because I don't have sexual desires. I wouldn't like being taught that the only choice is to have sex when I feel no desire to have sex and have no reason to have sex. They didn't teach only about abstinence, but they did talk about it. That was before I realized that I'm asexual, and I assumed that everyone else felt the same way I did and didn't feel sexual attraction, because how was I to know otherwise? So I should have been told that I'm some sort of freak just because I'm not like everyone else?

There were a lot of things I didn't like about my sex ed class, like how they banned discussion of homosexuality because a lot of the kids were homophobes who were making rude comments about it. I hated that.

My lack of sexual attraction is an integral part of who I am. It doesn't matter what my body is physically capable of doing. I lack the attraction and the desire to do those things, so that my body could be physically able to do them is irrelevant.

As any rational fellow would easily conclude, abstinence-only programs are not that effective, if at all. The thing is, HUMANS ARE FUCKING ANIMALS and cannot resist what is instinct. Sorry for the cursing...

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070803/hl_nm/abstinence_hiv_dc)

"In contrast to abstinence only programs, programs that promote the use of condoms greatly reduce the risk of acquiring HIV"

Are you trying to tell me that NOT HAVING SEX CAUSES SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES? Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense:

Me: "Doctor, what do you mean, I'm HIV-positive? I can't be; I've never had sex with anybody!"
Doctor: "Well, that explains it. The only way to avoid getting infected with HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases is to have frequent sex."
Me: "But, Doctor, that doesn't make sense!"
Doctor: "I know it doesn't, but that's what the news media say, and you know the unwritten law of the 21st century: 'If the news media say it, it's automatically true, even if scientifically unfeasible.'"

And so does sex education. They are both equal in what they do. Which is nothing.

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

LMAO at your spelling of "masterbate" :D

Are you trying to tell me that NOT HAVING SEX CAUSES SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES? Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense:

Me: "Doctor, what do you mean, I'm HIV-positive? I can't be; I've never had sex with anybody!"
Doctor: "Well, that explains it. The only way to avoid getting infected with HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases is to have frequent sex."
Me: "But, Doctor, that doesn't make sense!"
Doctor: "I know it doesn't, but that's what the news media say, and you know the unwritten law of the 21st century: 'If the news media say it, it's automatically true, even if scientifically unfeasible.'"


It's probably because the kids have sex anyway, but they haven't been taught to use protection...

It's not something I want though, so trying to teach me that I should do things I don't want to do would make me feel like I'm not a human, and it has before.Not what I said. Not teaching kids it's bad to have sex, is not the same as teaching kids they should have sex. Maybe you're saying I'm some sort of subhuman creature just because I don't have sexual desires.No. Some people don't, for whatever reason. However, it's a one in a million condition, and teaching kids that it's good or normal is not only dishonest, but harmful to them. I wouldn't like being taught that the only choice is to have sex when I feel no desire to have sex and have no reason to have sex.I said nothing of the sort. I only said teaching kids abstinence is bullshit. Whether or not you feel like having a sex life is your business, not mine and not your teachers'. They didn't teach only about abstinence, but they did talk about it.What's the point of 'teaching' about abstinence in sex-ed? I'd see the point if it was anti-sex education, but it isn't, is it? So I should have been told that I'm some sort of freak just because I'm not like everyone else?You are the exception from the rule if you're asexual. Any value judgement you heap on yourself because of it, however, is of your own making. But just like I don't go around promoting the idea that kids should be taught to be bisexual, you shouldn't endorse the idea that kids should be asexual. There were a lot of things I didn't like about my sex ed class, like how they banned discussion of homosexuality because a lot of the kids were homophobes who were making rude comments about it. I hated that.So basically, your sex-ed classes was about anti-sexuality? Yea, that makes sense. And I'm sure it cleared things up for a lot of your peers :rolleyes: It doesn't matter what my body is physically capable of doing.It does matter. It matters that you come to terms with what you are and can do. Whether or not you choose to engage in various activities isn't the point, nor does it matter. What matters is you don't end up compelled not to do certain things because of social conditioning, because that will make you unhappy.

Don't be so selfish.
Share your pain with us, both of you.

...what?

Of course not. It was in the context of teaching/indoctrinating children and teenagers.

What you do or don't do is your business. Which was sort of my point; teaching kids not to have sex, is a gross violation of their autonomy. Apart from the physical harm, it's right up there with teaching kids to develop Anorexia nervosa.

Indeed.

My (first) abstinence-only class consisted of to women from the maternity/gynecology ward in the nearest NC hospital teaching us that sex can kill someone and to never ever do it unless we are married. It was fortunate that I already knew about the vulva, clitoris, labia, and contraception prior to the class... however I can't say that the rest of the people in my grade knew about all that, which is very bad.

Indeed.

My (first) abstinence-only class consisted of to women from the maternity/gynecology ward in the nearest NC hospital teaching us that sex can kill someone and to never ever do it unless we are married. It was fortunate that I already knew about the vulva, clitoris, labia, and contraception prior to the class... however I can't say that the rest of the people in my grade knew about all that, which is very bad.

Wow...see, that's why it's in a shitheap. Nutters like that in charge of children. Now, I don't plan to have sex before I'm married, but that's for personal reasons. If people ask, I tell them that it's simply the way I feel - if I love someone enough to marry them, then I love them enough to have intercourse with them - they'll just have to be understanding. I do, however, understand the use of contraceptives, even at that stage, and wouldn't dream of not using them. More to the point however, I would never enforce that (quote) style of thinking upon anyone. I mean, that's downright shameful.

Wow...see, that's why it's in a shitheap. Nutters like that in charge of children. Now, I don't plan to have sex before I'm married, but that's for personal reasons. If people ask, I tell them that it's simply the way I feel - if I love someone enough to marry them, then I love them enough to have intercourse with them - they'll just have to be understanding. I do, however, understand the use of contraceptives, even at that stage, and wouldn't dream of not using them. More to the point however, I would never enforce that (quote) style of thinking upon anyone. I mean, that's downright shameful.

The anti-sex classes were split up into boys' classes and girls' classes, and in seventh grade we girlies were taught that all boys are teh ebil, that we are weak submissive sluts who give in to teh ebil secks-crazed boys, and that in order for us to truly have any self-respect we would wait until we were married. The only time they mentioned birth control was when they told us that condoms were ineffective. And the teachers told us horror stories of teenage girls who had gotten pregnant and had passed down STDs to their children, and insisted that it happened to every girl. The only reason it would happen to every girl is because they are ignorant, and uneducated abou sex and frankly I blame the (surprise!) anti-sex classes for people being horrendously uneducated.

In eighth grade my guy friends told me that the teacher (whose name was Mrs. Meade, I think... I was sick that day and didn't attend the classes) had said that all middle school boys were pressuring all the middle school girls to have sex. That's BS right there.

The anti-sex classes were split up into boys' classes and girls' classes, and in seventh grade we girlies were taught that all boys are teh ebil, that we are weak submissive sluts who give in to teh ebil secks-crazed boys, and that in order for us to truly have any self-respect we would wait until we were married. The only time they mentioned birth control was when they told us that condoms were ineffective. And the teachers told us horror stories of teenage girls who had gotten pregnant and had passed down STDs to their children, and insisted that it happened to every girl. The only reason it would happen to every girl is because they are ignorant, and uneducated abou sex and frankly I blame the (surprise!) anti-sex classes for people being horrendously uneducated.

In eighth grade my guy friends told me that the teacher (whose name was Mrs. Meade, I think... I was sick that day and didn't attend the classes) had said that all middle school boys were pressuring all the middle school girls to have sex. That's BS right there.

I'm glad I'm not american. God Bless the Queen, damnit.

More to the point, however:

I feel so sorry for all those kids that go through that crap when they school. I mean, I cannot imagine what the hell people are thinking voting for nutjobs that actually approve of this tommyrot. Do they really believe it, or are they just sickos looking for cheap kicks?

I mean, Sex Ed classes over here (we've still gotten them in A-Level Biology) usually consist of a teacher getting out a display from the local family planning clinic, usually various models and items of contraception. The class then goes through with the teacher what each is for (usually not getting a woman pregnant), how it works, etc, and usually ends with students trying to put a condom on a cucumber or a model penis. Which, I have to admit, is better than what you got, if way more embarrasing.

The "weak submissive sluts" thing shocked me, actually. That's just plain psychologically warping, and really does nothing for the equality thing. Way to follow the bible, there. I mean, hell, seriously? They (if only effectively) said that?

The "weak submissive sluts" thing shocked me, actually. That's just plain psychologically warping, and really does nothing for the equality thing. Way to follow the bible, there. I mean, hell, seriously? They (if only effectively) said that?

They didn't actually say that, but they did say something along the lines of "boys will always pressure girls into having sex, and girls are often too weak to resist the pressure because they are insecure and want affection, so they have sex." They seemed to imply that gilrs only had sex because they were pressured into it.

They didn't actually say that, but they did say something along the lines of "boys will always pressure girls into having sex, and girls are often too weak to resist the pressure because they are insecure and want affection, so they have sex." They seemed to imply that gilrs only had sex because they were pressured into it.

Wow...gotta love that there christian logic, huh.

Indeed.

My (first) abstinence-only class consisted of to women from the maternity/gynecology ward in the nearest NC hospital teaching us that sex can kill someone and to never ever do it unless we are married. It was fortunate that I already knew about the vulva, clitoris, labia, and contraception prior to the class... however I can't say that the rest of the people in my grade knew about all that, which is very bad.

Pancake, I know grown women who can't decipher their labia from their clitoris from their labia minora ...... etc. They can't even talk about it without whispering and being embarrassed. It's pretty sick if you ask me, grown women with children that can't even talk about their body.

Pancake, I know grown women who can't decipher their labia from their clitoris from their labia minora ...... etc. They can't even talk about it without whispering and being embarrassed. It's pretty sick if you ask me, grown women with children that can't even talk about their body.

How is it sick? Sad, maybe, but sick?

Mind you, young "ladies" 'round here can't shut up about them...*shudder*

Pancake, I know grown women who can't decipher their labia from their clitoris from their labia minora ...... etc. They can't even talk about it without whispering and being embarrassed. It's pretty sick if you ask me, grown women with children that can't even talk about their body.
Indeed. :(

How is it sick? Sad, maybe, but sick?

Mind you, young "ladies" 'round here can't shut up about them...*shudder*

It's sick cause it means they are actually ashamed of their own body.
It's sad because it probably means that they have no clue as to what makes them happy in bed, and it's even sadder cause that means they have no way of communicating to their partner what they like.
Sick, sad world indeed. :(

It's sick cause it means they are actually ashamed of their own body.

Not necessarily. They may just feel that it's inappropriate for public discussion. After all, do you want to be listening in a cafe to the lady on the next table discussing her genitalia with her friend?

Not what I said. Not teaching kids it's bad to have sex, is not the same as teaching kids they should have sex.

No. Some people don't, for whatever reason. However, it's a one in a million condition, and teaching kids that it's good or normal is not only dishonest, but harmful to them.

I said nothing of the sort. I only said teaching kids abstinence is bullshit. Whether or not you feel like having a sex life is your business, not mine and not your teachers'.

What's the point of 'teaching' about abstinence in sex-ed? I'd see the point if it was anti-sex education, but it isn't, is it?

You are the exception from the rule if you're asexual. Any value judgement you heap on yourself because of it, however, is of your own making. But just like I don't go around promoting the idea that kids should be taught to be bisexual, you shouldn't endorse the idea that kids should be asexual.

So basically, your sex-ed classes was about anti-sexuality? Yea, that makes sense. And I'm sure it cleared things up for a lot of your peers :rolleyes:

It does matter. It matters that you come to terms with what you are and can do. Whether or not you choose to engage in various activities isn't the point, nor does it matter. What matters is you don't end up compelled not to do certain things because of social conditioning, because that will make you unhappy.

But it's teaching kids that it's ok to want sex without teaching them that it's ok if you don't even want it. It just feels really alienating, because when you say that it's natural to want sex is feels like it implies that the way I feel is unnatural, when I've always been this way. And it's more like 1 in 100 rather than one in a million. I'm not saying they should be taught to be asexual, but it'd be nice to be told that it's all right to feel the way you feel rather than them assuming that you have feelings that you don't have.

And by "teaching abstinence", I mean that they took about a minute or two to say that it's the only way that has 100% chance of not getting you pregnant or with an STD, and that was it. They didn't spend like the whole time talking about it, not by a long shot.

It's not of my own making when it's the way society tries to make people feel when they don't feel the same way that everyone else does.

Yes, and by coming to terms with who I am, someone who has no desire for sex, it makes the fact the my body could be physically capable of that irrelevant. It would make me more unhappy to be compelled into it through social conditioning...

Not necessarily. They may just feel that it's inappropriate for public discussion. After all, do you want to be listening in a cafe to the lady on the next table discussing her genitalia with her friend?

Knowing Smunkee, that probably wasn't in "public discussion", but rather in consultation.
And, to be honest, I usually love listening to converstations like that. I find it extremely amusing, and sometimes quite instructive.
Not that I'd actively eavesdrop... but some people are just louder than others. And some people don't seem to realise that talking on a mobile doesn't mean the rest of the train can't hear you. And some people just don't suspect that there'd be other German-speakers on the train :D

Knowing Smunkee, that probably wasn't in "public discussion", but rather in consultation.
And, to be honest, I usually love listening to converstations like that. I find it extremely amusing, and sometimes quite instructive.
Not that I'd actively eavesdrop... but some people are just louder than others. And some people don't seem to realise that talking on a mobile doesn't mean the rest of the train can't hear you. And some people just don't suspect that there'd be other German-speakers on the train :D


True.
Really? I can't stand it...makes me go off my food. But that's me, a prude beyond all comparism.
I know what you mean...you always get the one that can't help but let the whole carriage know.
RE: German-speaking: Pwnt.

But it's teaching kids that it's ok to want sex without teaching them that it's ok if you don't even want it. It just feels really alienating, because when you say that it's natural to want sex is feels like it implies that the way I feel is unnatural, when I've always been this way. And it's more like 1 in 100 rather than one in a million. I'm not saying they should be taught to be asexual, but it'd be nice to be told that it's all right to feel the way you feel rather than them assuming that you have feelings that you don't have.

And by "teaching abstinence", I mean that they took about a minute or two to say that it's the only way that has 100% chance of not getting you pregnant or with an STD, and that was it. They didn't spend like the whole time talking about it, not by a long shot.

It's not of my own making when it's the way society tries to make people feel when they don't feel the same way that everyone else does.

Yes, and by coming to terms with who I am, someone who has no desire for sex, it makes the fact the my body could be physically capable of that irrelevant. It would make me more unhappy to be compelled into it through social conditioning...

Well, if they didn't tell you that nobody should ever have sex unless they themselves want to, they've been negligent.

Other than that, nobody's trying to condition you. Nobody's trying to force you to have sex. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise.

Well, if they didn't tell you that nobody should ever have sex unless they themselves want to, they've been negligent.

Other than that, nobody's trying to condition you. Nobody's trying to force you to have sex. It's dishonest to pretend otherwise.

I can't remember if they did or not.

Well, my mom wants me to get married someday. That sounds like trying to force me to have sex someday. And it's not so much trying to force me to have it as it is trying to make me feel weird for not wanting it, because it's all in the ads and movies and everything, and it's annoying.

I can't remember if they did or not.

Well, my mom wants me to get married someday. That sounds like trying to force me to have sex someday. And it's not so much trying to force me to have it as it is trying to make me feel weird for not wanting it, because it's all in the ads and movies and everything, and it's annoying.

Well, my mom wants me to find a job in a bank and make some grandchildren for her. Neither of which I've got planned. Moms will always want you to do things you don't want, that's one of the certainties in life. Have a chat with a gay or lesbian and find out what their moms wanted them to do.
The thing about that is, it's emotional pressure. It will only influence as far as YOU let it.
And ads and movies will always show happy, skinny girls getting everything they want, and fat girls are their funny sidekicks. That would annoy me no end if I wanted to waste that energy. You should know better than to listen to your mom or Hollywood movies, really.

But it's teaching kids that it's ok to want sex without teaching them that it's ok if you don't even want it.The world isn't all black. There's a bit of gray and white in there too.

Sex-ed should be focused on teaching kids about their sexuality, and how to behave responsibly. That includes teaching them that a bit less than 1 in 50 won't want to have sex, a bit less than 1 in 25 will want to screw people of either gender, and all the other various things kids will need to understand. It just feels really alienating, because when you say that it's natural to want sex is feels like it implies that the way I feel is unnatural, when I've always been this way.All manner of shit is natural. Not all of it is normal. I'm bisexual. That's just roughly twice as common as asexuality. Neither is normal by any definition of that word, but both are perfectly natural. Sex education obviously needs to include such information, if it's to be considered education at all. And by "teaching abstinence", I mean that they took about a minute or two to say that it's the only way that has 100% chance of not getting you pregnant or with an STD, and that was it.Your initial comments made it sound differently. Still, it's bullshit to teach kids the only way not to put themselves in harm's way, is to suppress their own sexuality. If a sex-ed course throws out info like that, it also needs to offer up some info on how much more likely it is to contract STDs, unwanted pregnancies, have miserable marriages and sex lives, and spend thousands on couples therapy, when you've become convinced abstinence is a nifty concept, but like virtually everyone, can't actually practice it. I'd say include some statistics on how much earlier people die from stress, but I don't think anyone's bothered to try studying that. They didn't spend like the whole time talking about it, not by a long shot.That's something, I guess, but abstinence is not a solution. Knowledge and confidence is the solution. It's not of my own making when it's the way society tries to make people feel when they don't feel the same way that everyone else does.I'm not quite sure what you're talking about? Yes, and by coming to terms with who I am, someone who has no desire for sex, it makes the fact the my body could be physically capable of that irrelevant.So why be weirded out by it? There's plenty of shit I'm capable of but choose not to do, because I don't feel like it. Doesn't mean I think it's creepy that I could if I wanted to. It would make me more unhappy to be compelled into it through social conditioning...And if you possessed an ounce of empathy, that alone would make it blindingly obvious to you why talking about abstinence in a sex-ed class is a fucking terrible idea.

How is it sick? Sad, maybe, but sick?

Mind you, young "ladies" 'round here can't shut up about them...*shudder*

sad and sick. People without a basic knowledge of their bodies probably shouldn't be having sex.

Well, my mom wants me to find a job in a bank and make some grandchildren for her. Neither of which I've got planned. Moms will always want you to do things you don't want, that's one of the certainties in life. Have a chat with a gay or lesbian and find out what their moms wanted them to do.
The thing about that is, it's emotional pressure. It will only influence as far as YOU let it.
And ads and movies will always show happy, skinny girls getting everything they want, and fat girls are their funny sidekicks. That would annoy me no end if I wanted to waste that energy. You should know better than to listen to your mom or Hollywood movies, really.

That's true...

The world isn't all black. There's a bit of gray and white in there too.

Sex-ed should be focused on teaching kids about their sexuality, and how to behave responsibly. That includes teaching them that a bit less than 1 in 50 won't want to have sex, a bit less than 1 in 25 will want to screw people of either gender, and all the other various things kids will need to understand.

All manner of shit is natural. Not all of it is normal. I'm bisexual. That's just roughly twice as common as asexuality. Neither is normal by any definition of that word, but both are perfectly natural. Sex education obviously needs to include such information, if it's to be considered education at all.


Yeah, I think it should include stuff like that, but it doesn't here. It's only like a few weeks out of the semester anyway for sex ed.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about?

I can't remember what I was talking about, exactly...sorry.


So why be weirded out by it? There's plenty of shit I'm capable of but choose not to do, because I don't feel like it. Doesn't mean I think it's creepy that I could if I wanted to.

Because I don't like the idea of my body being used like that. I don't want to think about it.


And if you possessed an ounce of empathy, that alone would make it blindingly obvious to you why talking about abstinence in a sex-ed class is a fucking terrible idea

Yeah, but they shouldn't teach us that we shouldn't not have sex either. It's an option that people choose. I wouldn't want to be forced to learn how to use contraceptives when I have no reason to know about that either.

I wouldn't want to be forced to learn how to use contraceptives when I have no reason to know about that either.

But surely, from a common sense sort of view, if your feeling should change at some point through your life, that it would be better to know about it?

How are you by the way?

Yeah, but they shouldn't teach us that we shouldn't not have sex either. It's an option that people choose. I wouldn't want to be forced to learn how to use contraceptives when I have no reason to know about that either.

Sorry, but that's like saying you don't want to be taught about road saftey cause you're never going to leave the house anyway.
If you don't want to use it, fine. But it's the teachers'/parents' responsibility to make sure you know how to use it should the situation ever arise.

sad and sick. People without a basic knowledge of their bodies probably shouldn't be having sex.

That, I will admit, is undoubtably true. It's unfortunate that so many people show such little care as to what constitutes their body, but give it away so freely... :(

That, I will admit, is undoubtably true. It's unfortunate that so many people show such little care as to what constitutes their body, but give it away so freely... :(

Give it away? What, to scientific research?
Most people I know still have their bodies... :confused:

Give it away? What, to scientific research?
Most people I know still have their bodies... :confused:

I think he means they aren't charging for sex........they are just giving it away for free :p

Give it away? What, to scientific research?
Most people I know still have their bodies... :confused:

Stupid old-fashioned mind of mine. :headbang: I apologise. At 18, I speak like I'm 80.

Give it away...as in to have sexual intercourse.

Stupid old-fashioned mind of mine. :headbang: I apologise. At 18, I speak like I'm 80.

Give it away...as in to have sexual intercourse.

*lol
That's kind of cute... my BF sure enjoys giving himself away.
But I agree, unless people know their own body, it's not the best idea for them to have sex. I can't imagine it would be much fun that way, anyway...

But surely, from a common sense sort of view, if your feeling should change at some point through your life, that it would be better to know about it?

How are you by the way?

Yeah, but it'd be icky to learn about it.:(

I'm great. Up in Michigan visiting with cousins, went to a wedding yesterday. :)

Sorry, but that's like saying you don't want to be taught about road saftey cause you're never going to leave the house anyway.
If you don't want to use it, fine. But it's the teachers'/parents' responsibility to make sure you know how to use it should the situation ever arise.

Well...they didn't teach us that anyway. They taught us the names of stuff and told us a little bit about them.

Well...they didn't teach us that anyway. They taught us the names of stuff and told us a little bit about them.

So they didn't teach you about contraception and safe sex?
Just what did they teach you?

Yeah, but it'd be icky to learn about it.:(

A lot of things in life are icky - trust me, learning about contraception is pittance compared to some things. And at least this would be useful.

I'm great. Up in Michigan visiting with cousins, went to a wedding yesterday. :)

Is that the wedding you had to wear the dress for?

A lot of things in life are icky - trust me, learning about contraception is pittance compared to some things. And at least this would be useful.

Is that the wedding you had to wear the dress for?

How would it be useful? :confused:

And yes, it was that wedding. The dress was fine, although it was kind of uncomfortable.

So they didn't teach you about contraception and safe sex?
Just what did they teach you?

They taught us about it, but not in detail and not what they looked like or how to use them or anything. I really can't remember exactly what they taught us. It was back in freshman year.

So they didn't teach you about contraception and safe sex?
Just what did they teach you?

my "health" class was filled with misinformation, so, probably that.

they told me things like "a guy can't pee if he has an erection" and "guys don't get erections unless they like you" and "girls can't have orgasms"

see? lies! all lies!

How would it be useful? :confused:

In case you should change your mind in regards to your sexuality in the future. You might not be asexual all your life, after all.

And yes, it was that wedding. The dress was fine, although it was kind of uncomfortable.


Good. I'm sure you looked lovely. [/sincerity]

Yeah, but they shouldn't teach us that we shouldn't not have sex either. It's an option that people choose. I wouldn't want to be forced to learn how to use contraceptives when I have no reason to know about that either.

Look, here's a scenario. Let's say you run into some guy at a bar, who's so hammered even his almost equally drunk buddies think he's insane. And he doesn't understand the concept of asexuality, or no, or stop. You're gonna have to know about contraceptives then.

How would it be useful? :confused:
maybe when you grow up you will adopt a daughter and need to tell her? or maybe you will be like a mentor to another girl and she will need to know?

"a guy can't pee if he has an erection"

We can't. It's a built-in evolutionary doo-wicky. Stops the semeniferous tubules getting contaminated with urea.

Look, here's a scenario. Let's say you run into some guy at a bar, who's so hammered even his almost equally drunk buddies think he's insane. And he doesn't understand the concept of asexuality, or no, or stop. You're gonna have to know about contraceptives then.

or Kung Fu......

:cool:

In case you should change your mind in regards to your sexuality in the future. You might not be asexual all your life, after all.

Good. I'm sure you looked lovely. [/sincerity]

Hmm. Don't think I will, and even if I do it doesn't mean I'll have to have sex.

Yeah, they said I did. It felt awkward, but it was fun. The groom, who is one of my cousins, is a really friendly and funny guy and he looked so happy. They left this morning for their honeymoon in Hawaii, which will last like 3 weeks...

my "health" class was filled with misinformation, so, probably that.

they told me things like "a guy can't pee if he has an erection" and "guys don't get erections unless they like you" and "girls can't have orgasms"

see? lies! all lies!

Well, it does make it rather more difficult to aim...

We can't. It's a built-in evolutionary doo-wicky. Stops the semeniferous tubules getting contaminated with urea.

Yes you can, I have seen hubby do it. First thing in the morning, penis is awake when he wakes up, he has to pee, aiming is....... difficult.

You can't pee while you are having an orgasm.....but you can most def. pee with an erection.

They taught us about it, but not in detail and not what they looked like or how to use them or anything. I really can't remember exactly what they taught us. It was back in freshman year.

I need a smilie with really, really big eyes now...
You mean sex ed was only a few lessons in just one year? Wow. That's.... I'm speechless.
Sex ed for us started in 5th grade (when we were 9/10), and continued all the way to our Abitur (when we were 17/18). It was part of the biology curriculum, and the subject would come up every single year.

Look, here's a scenario. Let's say you run into some guy at a bar, who's so hammered even his almost equally drunk buddies think he's insane. And he doesn't understand the concept of asexuality, or no, or stop. You're gonna have to know about contraceptives then.

That's encouraging. I should know about contraceptives because some random guy will rape me. I'm going to have to know about self-defense then, not contraceptives...

Hmm. Don't think I will, and even if I do it doesn't mean I'll have to have sex.

Hmm...someone I know said "Don't think I will [change sexuality]" when he was straight at 17. He's 18 now and has a boyfriend called Steve. He'd had girlfriends before and was pretty damned serious about his relationships.

Just remember, everything can change - it's best to be prepared.

Yeah, they said I did. It felt awkward, but it was fun. The groom, who is one of my cousins, is a really friendly and funny guy and he looked so happy. They left this morning for their honeymoon in Hawaii, which will last like 3 weeks...

Ah, it always feels awkward at a wedding.

And a 3-week honeymoon sounds nice...now all I need is a wife...

Hmm. Don't think I will, and even if I do it doesn't mean I'll have to have sex.



There's no harm in knowing. But there is a lot of potential harm in not knowing.

Yes you can, I have seen hubby do it. First thing in the morning, penis is awake when he wakes up, he has to pee, aiming is....... difficult.

Hmm...maybe OCR* books are wrong...it's claimed there's a sphincter valve which stops urine flow in an erection. Still, it didn't come up on the exam (no pun intended, I swear), so I'm good.

*for those not in the know, OCR (Oxford, Cambridge, and RSA Examinations Board) are, well, an examination board.

That's encouraging. I should know about contraceptives because some random guy will rape me. I'm going to have to know about self-defense then, not contraceptives...

I understand your point of view, but it's always best to be prepared.

And so does sex education. They are both equal in what they do. Which is nothing.

Know what they should do? Teach kids in jr. high to masterbate instead of teaching them how to put a condom on.

The stats would seem to argue with your blind assessment

That's encouraging. I should know about contraceptives because some random guy will rape me. I'm going to have to know about self-defense then, not contraceptives...

Whats the harm in knowing both?

Hmm...someone I know said "Don't think I will [change sexuality]" when he was straight at 17. He's 18 now and has a boyfriend called Steve. He'd had girlfriends before and was pretty damned serious about his relationships.

Just remember, everything can change - it's best to be prepared.



Ah, it always feels awkward at a wedding.

And a 3-week honeymoon sounds nice...now all I need is a wife...

Ok...kind of too late to learn now anyway. I'm not in sex ed anymore. I wouldn't have anywhere to ask about it, and I don't have any need to learn about it.

It was a fun reception. :)

There's no harm in knowing. But there is a lot of potential harm in not knowing.

Ok...I just don't know how I'd learn it.

I understand your point of view, but it's always best to be prepared.

I'd rather kill myself than let someone rape me. But it'd be much better to prevent it. Not planning on going to bars anyway.

Whats the harm in knowing both?

How would knowing about contraceptives stop someone from raping me? :confused:

Ok...kind of too late to learn now anyway. I'm not in sex ed anymore. I wouldn't have anywhere to ask about it, and I don't have any need to learn about it.

It was a fun reception. :)



Ok...I just don't know how I'd learn it.




Well, as my teachers would always tell me : You can't teach someone who's unwilling to learn.

Well, as my teachers would always tell me : You can't teach someone who's unwilling to learn.

I just don't see why I should learn about that.

Whats the harm in knowing both?

I seem to recall hearing about a case (ages ago) where the rapist was found not guilty because the victim begged him to use a condom. The defense argued that it constituted consent.

I seem to recall hearing about a case (ages ago) where the rapist was found not guilty because the victim begged him to use a condom. The defense argued that it constituted consent.

I was going to raise that point...but I thought it compounded what to me is already extremely uncomfortable subject...

Just like your liver is you

Your liver might be gross. You'd have to see it to know. :p

By the way, I see you're back

I don't see why you should love your garbage cans, but they are pretty damn important.

I wouldn't love a garbage can, be everyone should give their recycling and green waste bins a hug now and then.

Hmm...maybe OCR* books are wrong...it's claimed there's a sphincter valve which stops urine flow in an erection.It's not wrong, it's just not that simple. You can take a piss, if you force it. It won't flow by itself.

The 'valve' helps prevent irritation and infections, so I imagine it'd be a good idea to wank when you're done. Might be there's a golden shower enthusiast on the boards who can help clear that up for you, if you're curious. I'm not entirely sure I want to know :p I just don't see why I should learn about that.Because the harmless, if mildly uncomfortable information, may just be the difference between you destroying your life (or that of another), and you continuing your life as you see fit.
Do you understand why people are required to obtain a drivers license before they're allowed to drive around in public? It's the same thing. Cars just hit harder.

Because the harmless, if mildly uncomfortable information, may just be the difference between you destroying your life (or that of another), and you continuing your life as you see fit.
Do you understand why people are required to obtain a drivers license before they're allowed to drive around in public? It's the same thing. Cars just hit harder.

But if my orientation doesn't change, I won't have any use for the information. If I do change that much, which I doubt will happen, I can learn about it then, but I have no reason to learn about it now. I don't even know how I would learn about it.

But if my orientation doesn't change, I won't have any use for the information. If I do change that much, which I doubt will happen, I can learn about it then, but I have no reason to learn about it now. I don't even know how I would learn about it.

Human sexuality is something that will dramatically impact your life whether or not you choose to join in it. This makes knowledge of it important, whether or not you're interested or just think it's icky.

Human sexuality is something that will dramatically impact your life whether or not you choose to join in it. This makes knowledge of it important, whether or not you're interested or just think it's icky.

Yeah, but I don't need to know about it in great detail or anything...

Yeah, but I don't need to know about it in great detail or anything...

Luckily schools aren't to the point of giving kids 'the 10 Rules of She'll Call You Back Cunnilingus' so, we're not nearly there. Knowing what your clit is, that is important.

How would knowing about contraceptives stop someone from raping me? :confused:

They wouldent but things like knowing about the morning after pill may stop a lot of the effects

Luckily schools are to the point of giving kids 'the 10 Rules of She'll Call You Back Cunnilingus' so, we're not nearly there. Knowing what your clit is, that is important.

This thread is accomplished. :)

Yeah, but I don't need to know about it in great detail or anything...

Currently, you refuse to learn or know anything at all about it, so all this arguing is simply pointless.
You've been provided with the information, you've had lessons, you've got access to the internet, and I'm sure there's a library around somewhere, too. Taking in the provided information would be your responsibility.

You're no child any more, you know that people can and do change. Assuming that you will never change and therefore not learning about things that might become important in one way or another one day is highly irresponsible. But at the end of the day, nobody can force you to act responsibly, so it's up to you really. *shrugs*

Currently, you refuse to learn or know anything at all about it, so all this arguing is simply pointless.
You've been provided with the information, you've had lessons, you've got access to the internet, and I'm sure there's a library around somewhere, too. Taking in the provided information would be your responsibility.

You're no child any more, you know that people can and do change. Assuming that you will never change and therefore not learning about things that might become important in one way or another one day is highly irresponsible. But at the end of the day, nobody can force you to act responsibly, so it's up to you really. *shrugs*

If it does become important someday, then I can learn about it then. And what do you mean by lessons? The sex ed class? I didn't refuse to learn about them then...why do you think that I did?

And I can't look it up on the internet or else my mom will see that I looked it up and get mad at me. I wouldn't know where to start, either, or what it is that I'd need to know beyond what I learned in sex ed... I just don't see the need to learn anymore about it than what I learned then.

I'd rather kill myself than let someone rape me.

And when you are in a private bedroom, alone, with no available weapons, how do you propose to kill yourself before being sexually assaulted? Gonna just hold your breath until you die?

It's not that easy in reality, my friend.

If you really think you've got the ovaries to pull it off, I recommend that you look the would-be rapist in the face and laugh at him, then say, "Go ahead, asshole. I'm HIV positive." Worked for me once.


But it'd be much better to prevent it. Not planning on going to bars anyway.
You've bought into some dangerous myths. You're actually much more likely to be raped by a male friend or family member. Being a "good girl" and avoiding pubs, clubs, and dark alleys isn't going to protect you against the most common situations where rape occurs.

If it does become important someday, then I can learn about it then.

Do you have friends or family members who are sexually active? Do people you care about have sex? Then guess what: it's important.

I learn about sex not only for myself, but for those I care about. If somebody I care about comes to me with a question, I want to be able to answer it correctly, to help keep them safe and healthy. Every source of information helps. Particularly if you have younger people in your life who look up to you and trust you.


And I can't look it up on the internet or else my mom will see that I looked it up and get mad at me.

Oy, internets...try books. You know, those things at the library?


I wouldn't know where to start, either, or what it is that I'd need to know beyond what I learned in sex ed... I just don't see the need to learn anymore about it than what I learned then.
I don't understand lack of curiosity, I guess. I can't imagine there being anything I don't want to learn about.

And when you are in a private bedroom, alone, with no available weapons, how do you propose to kill yourself before being sexually assaulted? Gonna just hold your breath until you die?

It's not that easy in reality, my friend.

If you really think you've got the ovaries to pull it off, I recommend that you look the would-be rapist in the face and laugh at him, then say, "Go ahead, asshole. I'm HIV positive." Worked for me once.


You've bought into some dangerous myths. You're actually much more likely to be raped by a male friend or family member. Being a "good girl" and avoiding pubs, clubs, and dark alleys isn't going to protect you against the most common situations where rape occurs.

The situation he was talking about was in a bar, though, so I was responding to that.

I don't see how knowing about contraceptives would help with that, either.

But I don't think I'd be capable of killing myself, but if it's true that it's mostly friends then I guess I should just stop having friends and stop trusting anyone, if it's safer that way. But I'd rather not have to do that, because I like my friends, but if I have to give them up then I guess I have to. :( I mean, what else can I do? I have no idea what I'd do if that happened to me. I'd probably just waste away if it happened and I couldn't stop it, because I don't think I'd see any point in living anymore.

Do you have friends or family members who are sexually active? Do people you care about have sex? Then guess what: it's important.

I learn about sex not only for myself, but for those I care about. If somebody I care about comes to me with a question, I want to be able to answer it correctly, to help keep them safe and healthy. Every source of information helps. Particularly if you have younger people in your life who look up to you and trust you.


Oy, internets...try books. You know, those things at the library?


I don't understand lack of curiosity, I guess. I can't imagine there being anything I don't want to learn about.

I don't know if any of them are sexually active. It's not like they'd tell me.

But then I'd have to give my mom a reason that I'm going so that I could get permission to go to the library, and she'd probably want to see what book I'm reading. And I still wouldn't know where to start.

I am curious about it a bit, but I don't want to have to touch the things or anything and I feel like I learned enough about it in sex ed.

Clearly you're not asexual because it's not that you don't care about sex - you do, you're very afraid of it.

I'm asexual because I'm not attracted to anyone. I am terrified of the idea of sex, but that doesn't change that I'm not attracted to anyone.

The situation he was talking about was in a bar, though, so I was responding to that.

I don't see how knowing about contraceptives would help with that, either.

Knowing about medical options will help you deal with the aftermath of rape. It will help you know what you can do to protect your health and your body, and possibly prevent a horrible situation from becoming even worse.


But I don't think I'd be capable of killing myself, but if it's true that it's mostly friends then I guess I should just stop having friends and stop trusting anyone, if it's safer that way.

You should also stop crossing the street, to reduce your chances of being hit by a car.


But I'd rather not have to do that, because I like my friends, but if I have to give them up then I guess I have to. :( I mean, what else can I do? I have no idea what I'd do if that happened to me. I'd probably just waste away if it happened and I couldn't stop it, because I don't think I'd see any point in living anymore.
Exactly.

The fact is, most rapes are committed by friends or family (or partners) of the victim. That's the reality of our world.

Does this stop me from being close to men in my life? Hell no. I'm very close with my father, brother, and uncle. Most of my closest friends are male (just happened to work out that way). My partner is a man, and I am deeply fond of him.

Since I refuse to give up having men in my life, I do the best I can to protect myself. The best possible way to protect myself is through education and information. Knowing what do to is 9/10ths of the battle.

I don't know if any of them are sexually active. It's not like they'd tell me.

But then I'd have to give my mom a reason that I'm going so that I could get permission to go to the library, and she'd probably want to see what book I'm reading. And I still wouldn't know where to start.

I am curious about it a bit, but I don't want to have to touch the things or anything and I feel like I learned enough about it in sex ed.
Well, if you're curious about it a bit, feel free to ask anything that springs to mind. I find human sexuality fascinating, so I've done a lot of reading and...um...field work.

I'm asexual because I'm not attracted to anyone. I am terrified of the idea of sex, but that doesn't change that I'm not attracted to anyone.

Aiya I tried to delete but, since we're here.

The concept of aversion in asexuality does not mean 'terrified'. Terrified indicates something else and, to be honest, there's no way of knowing what that might be without knowing your particular circumstances.

Nothing I say here has any validity but if you need permission to go to the library then it would sound like you're a victim of over-protective parents, though that doesn't add up since you're merrily typing away on the Internet.

My only advice would be to use the Internet since you have it, the best protection against anything is knowledge.

Well, if you're curious about it a bit, feel free to ask anything that springs to mind. I find human sexuality fascinating, so I've done a lot of reading and...um...field work.

I don't know what to ask...

Knowing about medical options will help you deal with the aftermath of rape. It will help you know what you can do to protect your health and your body, and possibly prevent a horrible situation from becoming even worse.

You should also stop crossing the street, to reduce your chances of being hit by a car.

Exactly.

The fact is, most rapes are committed by friends or family (or partners) of the victim. That's the reality of our world.

Does this stop me from being close to men in my life? Hell no. I'm very close with my father, brother, and uncle. Most of my closest friends are male (just happened to work out that way). My partner is a man, and I am deeply fond of him.

Since I refuse to give up having men in my life, I do the best I can to protect myself. The best possible way to protect myself is through education and information. Knowing what do to is 9/10ths of the battle.

Ok. I don't know how to respond, other than that I'm not quite sure what I would need to know that I didn't learn in sex ed.

Aiya I tried to delete but, since we're here.

The concept of aversion in asexuality does not mean 'terrified'. Terrified indicates something else and, to be honest, there's no way of knowing what that might be without knowing your particular circumstances.

Nothing I say here has any validity but if you need permission to go to the library then it would sound like you're a victim of over-protective parents, though that doesn't add up since you're merrily typing away on the Internet.

My only advice would be to use the Internet since you have it, the best protection against anything is knowledge.

I'm on vacation at my cousin's house. I'm not at home. But when I'm home I can't just leave the house without permission...and I definitely can't drive anywhere without permission.

It shouldn't be that weird to be terrified of rape...but since I wouldn't consent to sex, any sex that happened to me would be rape.

Wow, so I see yet another thread vaguely aligned with the topic of sex has been derailed by "I'm so completely indifferent to sex let me tell you how indifferent I am to sex" Chandelier.

At some point it does become a case of the lady protesting a bit too much. But what the hell, since we're here

It shouldn't be that weird to be terrified of rape...

Yeah, kinda, it is. Knowedgeable about it yes. Taking necessary safeguards about it, yes. Being smart about it, yes.

But not terrified. It's posts like this that make me especially believe you're not asexual, which is to say, indifferent to sex. Rather you are sex-phobic, which is entirely different

Wow, so I see yet another thread vaguely aligned with the topic of sex has been derailed by "I'm so completely indifferent to sex let me tell you how indifferent I am to sex" Chandelier.

At some point it does become a case of the lady protesting a bit too much. But what the hell, since we're here



Yeah, kinda, it is. Knowedgeable about it yes. Taking necessary safeguards about it, yes. Being smart about it, yes.

But not terrified. It's posts like this that make me especially believe you're not asexual, which is to say, indifferent to sex. Rather you are sex-phobic, which is entirely different

I didn't say I'm indifferent to sex, and that's not what asexual means. Asexual means not attracted to anyone. I'm not attracted to anyone, so I'm asexual. And I wasn't trying to derail it, but I responded to something and people responded to me, and I don't like not responding when people respond to me.

So it's unreasonable to be afraid of something that ruins people's lives and could happen to me?

I didn't say I'm indifferent to sex, and that's not what asexual means. Asexual means not attracted to anyone. I'm not attracted to anyone, so I'm asexual. And I wasn't trying to derail it, but I responded to something and people responded to me, and I don't like not responding when people respond to me.

So it's unreasonable to be afraid of something that ruins people's lives and could happen to me?

That is pretty unreasonable. You afraid of cars?

That is pretty unreasonable. You afraid of cars?

No, but I'm afraid of car accidents.

I didn't say I'm indifferent to sex, and that's not what asexual means. Asexual means not attracted to anyone. I'm not attracted to anyone, so I'm asexual.

Asexual, in its common terminology, means "a designation or self-designation for people who lack feelings of sexual attraction and/or sexual desire"

One who lacks feelings of sexual attraction and/or sexual desire does not want sex.

If you don't want sex, you are indifferent to sex. That's the meaning. Asexuality however does not mean "no attraction", it means "no sexual attraction".

However ignoring that, it's quite obvious you don't have a lack of sexual attraction and desire. You have an extreme aversion to sexual attraction and desire. That doesn't sound like asexuality. That doesn't sound like a simple lack of desire. That doesn't sound like "i don't feel like having sex".

It is "I am terrified of sex". And that's something entirely different. And somehow you seem to have managed to convince yourself that your terror of sex and your lack of general attraction to people are somehow not directly linked to one another.

Being terrified of sex isn't asexuality.

So it's unreasonable to be afraid of something that ruins people's lives and could happen to me?

You didn't say "afraid", you said "terrified". And yes, it is. Being murdered ruins people's lives. Being rendered a quadrapalegic in a car accident ruins people's lives. Getting hit by lightning ruins peoples' lives. All can happen to you.

Are you terrified of them?

But seriously folks, am I alone here? Am I the only one who gets a really uncomfortable vibe from her posts?

No, but I'm afraid of car accidents.

So all sex ruins people's lives?

But seriously folks, am I alone here? Am I the only one who gets a really uncomfortable vibe from her posts?

Nope.
But as I said before, you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink. There's very little we can do on an internet forum, so I really don't want to bother any more.

Asexual, in its common terminology, means "a designation or self-designation for people who lack feelings of sexual attraction and/or sexual desire"

One who lacks feelings of sexual attraction and/or sexual desire does not want sex.

If you don't want sex, you are indifferent to sex. That's the meaning. Asexuality however does not mean "no attraction", it means "no sexual attraction".

However ignoring that, it's quite obvious you don't have a lack of sexual attraction and desire. You have an extreme aversion to sexual attraction and desire. That doesn't sound like asexuality. That doesn't sound like a simple lack of desire. That doesn't sound like "i don't feel like having sex".

It is "I am terrified of sex". And that's something entirely different. And somehow you seem to have managed to convince yourself that your terror of sex and your lack of general attraction to people are somehow not directly linked to one another.

Being terrified of sex isn't asexuality.

You didn't say "afraid", you said "terrified". And yes, it is. Being murdered ruins people's lives. Being rendered a quadrapalegic in a car accident ruins people's lives. Getting hit by lightning ruins peoples' lives. All can happen to you.

Are you terrified of them?

I'm afraid of those things, too. I'm also afraid of elevators, dogs, and certain types of moss. I'm afraid of lots of things.

And I don't have sexual attraction, so I can identify as asexual. It's not like there's any other orientation I could be in.

Being terrified of sex isn't asexuality, but it doesn't stop you from being asexual if you're not sexually attracted to anyone.


But seriously folks, am I alone here? Am I the only one who gets a really uncomfortable vibe from her posts?

What do you mean?

So all sex ruins people's lives?

I was referring to rape. In my case any sex would be rape since I wouldn't consent to it.

I was referring to rape. In my case any sex would be rape since I wouldn't consent to it.

Take someone who chooses not to drive cars. Now, there's nothing wrong with not driving a car. However, if that person had a fear of driving cars because the only situations in which they'd actually be driving a car would be when they were forced to (and hence involving kidnap or something similar)... it seems rather silly.

To use a more coherent analogy, heterosexual people having homosexual sex or vice versa might generally be classified as rape, as they wouldn't consent to it (they might for money or something, but meh, the point still stands) but it's silly for heterosexuals to be afraid of homosexual sex.

Take someone who chooses not to drive cars. Now, there's nothing wrong with not driving a car. However, if that person had a fear of driving cars because the only situations in which they'd actually be driving a car would be when they were forced to (and hence involving kidnap or something similar)... it seems rather silly.

Well, sorry for not being able to suddenly stop being afraid of something just because you say it's silly to be afraid of it. A lot of people say it's silly to be terrified of dogs, too, but I am anyway, unless they're really small or extremely calm.

I'm also afraid of...certain types of moss.

Yeah some lichens can be really frightening too...

Well, sorry for not being able to suddenly stop being afraid of something just because you say it's silly to be afraid of it. A lot of people say it's silly to be terrified of dogs, too, but I am anyway, unless they're really small or extremely calm.

I'm not really suggesting that. I have plenty of silly fears too, since I'm extremely paranoid. I do recognise that they are silly, though.

Yeah some lichens can be really frightening too...

That fear has mostly faded...but when I was little I was told that they contained scary bugs, so I was always frightened when I saw that type of moss, and I still get a bit uncomfortable around it and don't want to touch it.

I'm not really suggesting that. I have plenty of silly fears too, since I'm extremely paranoid. I do recognise that they are silly, though.

But I was under the impression that it happens to a lot of women, so it doesn't seem silly to me to be afraid of that.

I was referring to rape. In my case any sex would be rape since I wouldn't consent to it.
I think perhaps that is where the disconnect is.

It is completely rational to fear and dislike being raped. That's completely sane.

However, a whole lot of sex is NOT rape. That's what other people are talking about. It's a bit strange to hear somebody saying that they fear or hate the idea of having consensual sex. Hearing somebody say that they fear engaging in mutually-pleasurable physical contact is, at the very least, a bit off-putting.

But if you are conceptualizing all sex with you as rape, because you believe you would never consent to sex, then your position makes a lot more sense. At least to me.

But I was under the impression that it happens to a lot of women, so it doesn't seem silly to me to be afraid of that.

42 million people are in car accidents each year as opposed to about 250,000 who suffer rape or attempted rape. Yes, the statistics are from Wikipedia, and they're not particularly accurate, but fear of car accidents is a lot more statistically justifiable than fear of rape.

42 million people are in car accidents each year as opposed to about 250,000 who suffer rape or attempted rape. Yes, the statistics are from Wikipedia, and they're not particularly accurate, but fear of car accidents is a lot more statistically justifiable than fear of rape.

I'm afraid of car accidents too...


But if you are conceptualizing all sex with you as rape, because you believe you would never consent to sex, then your position makes a lot more sense. At least to me.

I can't see it in any other way.

*pats Chandelier* It's alright. I feel your pain. I don't care much for the ol' hackeysack either. Always thought it would be more convenient(and probably less resource intensive) to have them housed inside the body by making them better able to cope with higher temperatures. Proof that there is no God. Or at least, that if there is a designer, he's far from intelligent.:rolleyes:

I like cats too. Shame that they're kind of hard to keep in an apartment.

Back on topic, the explosion of AIDS in Africa is a combination of abstinence training(which fails), and rampant circumcision(with recycling of tools) spreading AIDS to previously uninfected persons. At the current rate, if one were to say, isolate them for about 100 years, the area would be devoid of human life(that or we'd have a cure for AIDS, as various peoples evolve the mutations necessary to become immune to it).;)