NationStates Jolt Archive

I was curious to see if anyone liked him?

He's like Grandpa Simpson--fun to watch, but you don't actually want him in charge of anything.

Nah. But I don't vote Democrat anyway. :p

I liked him, back when he was a former Senator who was key in exposing the Pentagon Papers. As Grumpy the Dwarf... Not so much.

I liked him, back when he was a former Senator who was key in exposing the Pentagon Papers. As Grumpy the Dwarf... Not so much.

He and Byrd as running mates - I'd go for it. :p

He has the most motivational campaign video i've ever seen.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3263318624897204673&q=Mike+Gravel&total=758&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


That's good enough reason alone to like him.

He has the most motivational campaign video i've ever seen.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3263318624897204673&q=Mike+Gravel&total=758&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0


That's good enough reason alone to like him.
You know he only did that as a favor to some film students, right?

He's a nice old man and he was brilliant in his prime, but he's just too old now.

You know he only did that as a favor to some film students, right?

Makes me curious about what other favours he's keen on.
Mmm-hmmm.

Grampa: "Welcome home, Son. I broke two lamps and lost all your mail. What's wrong with your wife?"

Homer: "Never mind, you wouldn't understand."

Grampa: "Flu?"

Homer: "No."

Grampa: "Protein deficiency?"

Homer: "No."

Grampa: "Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis?"

Homer: "No."

Grampa: "Unsatisfying sex life?"

Homer: "N- yes! But please, don't you say that word!"

Grampa: "What, seeeex? What's so unappealing about hearing your elderly father talk about sex? I had sex."
...
Grampa: " Lemme sell it, you idjit. Step right up, folks, and witness the magnificent medicinal miracle of Simpson & Son's patented revitalizing tonic. Put some ardor in your larder with our energizing, moisturizing, tantalizing, romanticizing, surprising, her prizing, revitalizing tonic."
.
Grampa: "Hurry up! We've got a lot of tonic to sell and a lot of towns to visit: Frigid Falls, Mount Seldom, Lake Flaccid."

Makes me curious about what other favours he's keen on.
Mmm-hmmm.
Oh, God. I forgot how much I used to love the Simpsons.

* a guaranteed annual income (dubbed the "Citizen's Wage"),
* public financing of elections,
* progressive tax with no deductions or exemptions,
* steps against the military-industrial complex (which he calls the "Warfare State"),
* a national law to do away with voter registration and other barriers to voting,
* abolition of the death penalty,
* universal health care, school vouchers,
* a drastic reduction in government secrecy, and an end to America's imperialistic foreign policy.

I can't argue with those policies, they are all sound good, unlike you Americans I judge politicians based on their policy, not on ridiculous personal characteristics and the like Americans like to do, that's just stupid.

Oh, God. I forgot how much I used to love the Simpsons.

Yay! I'm useful!


...er, was.
:(

I can't argue with those policies, they are all sound good, unlike you Americans I judge politicians based on their policy, not on ridiculous personal characteristics and the like Americans like to do, that's just stupid.

That's cute, troll. Maybe if he actually took the time to talk about those issues, rather bitching about the amount of time he gets at debates, and asking "Who're you gonna bomb, Barack?", he might be taken seriously. Until such a time, he clearly is not interested in running on his policies.

ut he's just too old now.

...

How old is he, hmm? Seventy-five? Eighty? Are you going to start practicing ageism?! I don't think so! Not on my watch!

Look, I don't know anything about this person, but I will not put up with ageism. Ageism is just as disgusting as any other form of discrimination, and should not be practiced, because people only become "too old" by everyone treating them as if they are.

That's cute, troll. Maybe if he actually took the time to talk about those issues, rather bitching about the amount of time he gets at debates, and asking "Who're you gonna bomb, Barack?", he might be taken seriously. Until such a time, he clearly is not interested in running on his policies.

Well considering Obama's recent statements, that's a good question, plus not giving candidates equal time in debates etc is anti-democratic at heart. I just oppose the 'stand-up-for-nothing' smiling 'both parties are the same' politicians that seem to dominate the US, it's laughable.

I can't argue with those policies, they are all sound good, unlike you Americans I judge politicians based on their policy, not on ridiculous personal characteristics and the like Americans like to do, that's just stupid.

Kucinich supports the same and more, and he's not, you know, about to die.

I just don't think we should consider electing someone to the office of president after they've reached an age where the onset of sudden inexplicable lethal illness is probable.

Just occurred to me ... isn't there an inherent conflict of interest by voting everyone in who's gonna have some focus with retirement-age benefits? :p

Terrible, just terrible.

...

How old is he, hmm? Seventy-five? Eighty? Are you going to start practicing ageism?! I don't think so! Not on my watch!

Look, I don't know anything about this person, but I will not put up with ageism. Ageism is just as disgusting as any other form of discrimination, and should not be practiced, because people only become "too old" by everyone treating them as if they are.
I just don't think we should consider electing someone to the office of president after they've reached an age where the onset of sudden inexplicable lethal illness is probable.

I just don't think we should consider electing someone to the office of president after they've reached an age where the onset of sudden inexplicable lethal illness is probable.

Medical technology can prevent that sort of thing, and part of the problem is stress created by society considering them to be too old. Think that isn't stress? Believe me, I know from watching my dad. He's almost sixty-five, and he's the only one in our family who is earning the money we need to keep our family housed, clothed, fed, and so on, yet he's constantly having to fight against ageism.

Really, it's sickening...and what's worse, it's almost universally accepted!

On that same token, I would agree that if someone IS in poor health they probably should not seek an important office.

But we cannot deem them to be in poor health simply because their age is a large number. Just remember that.

Kucinich supports the same and more, and he's not, you know, about to die.

Wow, nice not-so-subtle ageism.

...

How old is he, hmm? Seventy-five? Eighty? Are you going to start practicing ageism?! I don't think so! Not on my watch!

Look, I don't know anything about this person, but I will not put up with ageism. Ageism is just as disgusting as any other form of discrimination, and should not be practiced, because people only become "too old" by everyone treating them as if they are.

Eh. The neurons in his brain fire about 15% more slowly than yours or mine, and he's butting up against the average age of death for the general population. So we're just as much voting for his VP if he chooses to run. That'd be a bit odd. ;)

I'd have to see some sort of study on this.


Yeah, that did sound odd. Regardless, the presidency is a very stressful job - endless travel, meetings, speeches, etc. We've all seen the before-and-after photos of the presidents: looks like it adds about 30 years to their faces. :p

Medical technology can prevent that sort of thing
We aren't that advanced yet. Old people are all in poor health merely because their parts are older, and that's something organic things do as they age. Get worse eventually.
and part of the problem is stress created by society considering them to be too old.
I'd have to see some sort of study on this.
Wow, nice not-so-subtle ageism.
It's a legitimate factor to consider in a leader. I wouldn't vote for someone with a malignant tumor, either.

Neo Undelia honestly that's lame and undermines the use of a vote, would you vote differently if a candidate picked his nose or had massive back-hair? Of course not. My political system in my country may have many flaws, but I am grateful that personal issues are not as important as policy.

Maybe if the guy's nose-picking was life threatening or suggested brain damage. :p

That said, I don't personally mind an older candidate. Rudy and Newt are in their mid 60s, I believe, and Fred Thompson is about 70. They'd be acceptable to me, old or not. ;)

Neo Undelia honestly that's lame and undermines the use of a vote, would you vote differently if a candidate picked his nose or had massive back-hair? Of course not. My political system in my country may have many flaws, but I am grateful that personal issues are not as important as policy.

Well considering Obama's recent statements, that's a good question, plus not giving candidates equal time in debates etc is anti-democratic at heart. I just oppose the 'stand-up-for-nothing' smiling 'both parties are the same' politicians that seem to dominate the US, it's laughable.

Actually, it's a stupid question, given that Obama said, very clearly, that Nuclear weapons were off the table. It was just Gravel being crazy old Gravel.

At least Kucinich isn't Grumpy....

Actually, it's a stupid question, given that Obama said, very clearly, that Nuclear weapons were off the table.
Wow, nuclear weapons were off the table, well thank goodness for that, I'd say people should be just as afraid of conventional ones thanks. The US literally can't use nuclear weapons ever except if nuked first, without the entire world abandoning it that is, so that admission isn't exactly radical, it's taken pretty much for granted.

It was just Gravel being crazy old Gravel.

At least Kucinich isn't Grumpy....

Also, more ageism.

Neo Undelia honestly that's lame and undermines the use of a vote, would you vote differently if a candidate picked his nose or had massive back-hair? Of course not. My political system in my country may have many flaws, but I am grateful that personal issues are not as important as policy.
Dude, personal issues are more important than policy to this country's voting population. Stupid personal issues like how good their hair looks and how they dress and if they look "presidential".

And some personal issues are important. Financial interests for instance, and yes, age and other medical information.
Anyway, I just don't feel comfortable putting that much power into someone that old. I've known too many old people who went from fine to nearly dieing in a few days.

Wow, nuclear weapons were off the table, well thank goodness for that, I'd say people should be just as afraid of conventional ones thanks. The US literally can't use nuclear weapons ever except if nuked first, without the entire world abandoning it that is, so that admission isn't exactly radical, it's taken pretty much for granted.

The quote in question was about nukes. You can twist it however you like, troll, but the fact remains that you were wrong.

Also, more ageism.

That's nice, dear.

Dude, personal issues are more important than policy to this country's voting population. Stupid personal issues like how good their hair looks and how they dress and if they look "presidential".

And some personal issues are important. Financial interests for instance, and yes, age and other medical information.
Anyway, I just don't feel comfortable putting that much power into someone that old. I've known too many old people who went from fine to nearly dieing in a few days.

Dude, take France for example, the 'Conservative' Sarkozy who just got elected has a wife like half his age, and he only ever sees here like few times in holidays a year, he also used to have several mistresses, also they say 'Socialist' without looking uncomfortable.

So US, be more like France! :)

Dude, take France for example, the 'Conservative' Sarkozy who just got elected has a wife like half his age, and he only ever sees here like few times in holidays a year, he also used to have several mistresses, also they say 'Socialist' without looking uncomfortable.

So US, be more like France! :)

By electing Fred Thompson? :p Sounds like he'd get along with Sarkozy. :)

I'm not saying vote for this man or someone else of equal age. I'm simply saying that such ageism is ridiculous and unacceptable.

We have plenty of elderly who are healthier than a large portion of our youth in this country. The problem with age has been shown in many studies to be much less significant when the person is in a positive state of mind about their health and well-being. State of mind can affect quite a bit of our health, in fact.

State of mind can also be affected quite significantly by others, hence why we have emotional problems. People are told all their lives that when they are a certain age they must have their health deteriorate.

Obviously, it's not all a state of mind. One has to keep up healthy habits, when it comes to eating, exercise, sleeping, and the like as well, and they are extremely important. But that state of mind is as well.

Think about it. How often do we have people seriously affected by emotional disorders? How often are people berated by verbal abuse changed negatively, with worsening health and so on? It's the same thing. You're told constantly that you MUST be in such health when you are of a certain elderly age, and thus because you have that state of mind, you alter your habits unconsciously and stress builds up more rapidly, and your health will worsen.

My father is in as excellent health as one who used to have bad habits(only twelve years ago he quit smoking and started up much better eating and exercise habits) can be expected to be. He's also extremely good at what he does, and highly specialized. (One of the problems he has when it comes to finding work, unfortunately.)

Yet, again, he is considered oftentimes to be too old to do the work, despite the fact that he is perfectly fit to do it for another twenty years. Hell, even he has a problem keeping in a positive mental state because of it. I have watched that ageism affect him horribly, and frankly? It pisses me off.

Now think about it. Do you, when you are my father's age, want to be considered "too old"? I know I wouldn't. So why should you or I treat them the same way?

Do not judge by age. Judge by the state of their health. Judging by age is stupid no matter what age we are judging by. Most of our youth are either overweight or obese, and are in worse health than my father is. Hell, I'M in worse health than my father is, and I'm twenty! (This has been solely my fault when it comes to my eating habits and exercise habits, and I am working on it.)

Just remember what I've said. Ageism is just as bad as racism, homophobia, sexism, and every other form of discrimination. It unfairly targets a group of people, and it's just not right.

Just remember what I've said. Ageism is just as bad as racism, homophobia, sexism, and every other form of discrimination. It unfairly targets a group of people, and it's just not right.

Nice rant. So it's all in their minds, is it?

Nice rant. So it's all in their minds, is it?

...

No, certainly it's not ALL in their minds.
Is there deterioration? Absolutely. Will your health decline naturally as you age? Of course.

Does it have to? Certainly not. We might not be able to prevent every last possible medical problem, but with our understanding of nutrition, exercise, and the problems that one encounters when they age makes those problems far less relevant.

But we cannot underestimate how much affect one's mental state has! It can keep them from doing the things they need to do to help themselves. I offer myself up as an example. I'm an extremely emotionally sensitive person with clinical depression. I am also an emotional eater. Consequentely, I have a tendency to consume far more than I ought to and I also laze around. Why do you think I weigh 240 pounds when I should weigh at most 175 for my build?

Sure, you could just say "he needs to stop being so lazy." And I should. But what most people don't realize is how much of an effect emotional states have. My depression has kept me from having any real interest in exercising or improving my health. I can know intellectually everything I'm doing wrong and I won't give a damn about myself because--and this is a question I have honestly asked myself often--"What's the point?" I'm changing myself now, but only because of hard work and therapy and a refusal to give up. Not everyone has those solutions.

Now I'm only using myself as an example because I don't have an impartial one at hand. (I'd use one if I did.) Emotional stress affects people harshly. Hell, men are a great example. Despite the fact that we don't have to deal with the stresses of pregnancy and child birth, our lifespans are still five to ten years behind the lifespans of women. Why?

Because we don't talk about our emotions .We refuse to face emotional stress. We bottle up our problems and allow anger or frustration or whatever else have you to fester, and that makes things worse. That's why men tend to be more violent as well, because due to that bottled up emotion will we occasionally SNAP and let it out suddenly with tragic results.

You cannot underestimate emotional states. You cannot.

...

No, certainly it's not ALL in their minds.
Is there deterioration? Absolutely. Will your health decline naturally as you age? Of course.

Does it have to? Certainly not. We might not be able to prevent every last possible medical problem, but with our understanding of nutrition, exercise, and the problems that one encounters when they age makes those problems far less relevant.

But we cannot underestimate how much affect one's mental state has! It can keep them from doing the things they need to do to help themselves. I offer myself up as an example. I'm an extremely emotionally sensitive person with clinical depression. I am also an emotional eater. Consequentely, I have a tendency to consume far more than I ought to and I also laze around. Why do you think I weigh 240 pounds when I should weigh at most 175 for my build?

Sure, you could just say "he needs to stop being so lazy." And I should. But what most people don't realize is how much of an effect emotional states have. My depression has kept me from having any real interest in exercising or improving my health. I can know intellectually everything I'm doing wrong and I won't give a damn about myself because--and this is a question I have honestly asked myself often--"What's the point?" I'm changing myself now, but only because of hard work and therapy and a refusal to give up. Not everyone has those solutions.

Ahhh, old people are clinically depressed. Ageism, much? :p

Nah, kidding. Though depression is a rather extreme end, no?

Now I'm only using myself as an example because I don't have an impartial one at hand. (I'd use one if I did.) Emotional stress affects people harshly. Hell, men are a great example. Despite the fact that we don't have to deal with the stresses of pregnancy and child birth, our lifespans are still five to ten years behind the lifespans of women. Why?

Because we don't talk about our emotions .We refuse to face emotional stress. We bottle up our problems and allow anger or frustration or whatever else have you to fester, and that makes things worse. That's why men tend to be more violent as well, because due to that bottled up emotion will we occasionally SNAP and let it out suddenly with tragic results.

Nice hypothesis.

Ahhh, old people are clinically depressed. Ageism, much? :p

Nah, kidding. Though depression is a rather extreme end, no?
It is, certainly, but it's an extreme amongst extremes. I'm hardly the only example of what emotional stress can do to people. Even lower levels can have serious repercussions over time.



Nice hypothesis.
Yes, isn't it? I like to think it's worthwhile as a full out theory, but I haven't been able to really test it beyond my own family. Maybe psychologists have been...it's worth checking into, certainly.

Just remember what I've said. Ageism is just as bad as racism, homophobia, sexism, and every other form of discrimination. It unfairly targets a group of people, and it's just not right.
Absolutely correct.

It is, certainly, but it's an extreme amongst extremes. I'm hardly the only example of what emotional stress can do to people. Even lower levels can have serious repercussions over time.

Over time? Was that a subconscious age comment? :D

Well, here's the thing. Assuming macular degeneration and the like can be chalked up largely to ageism itself...What do you proscribe? Let's say...TV campaign to remoralize Old people. Fine?

Well, see, you've already gone on about how "there's old guys in better health than our youth". At that rate, innit our youth already rather screwed? We may have to wait a century or so for our complete batch of equally healthy old people, eh?

Yes, isn't it? I like to think it's worthwhile as a full out theory, but I haven't been able to really test it beyond my own family. Maybe psychologists have been...it's worth checking into, certainly.

Over time? Was that a subconscious age comment? :D

Well, here's the thing. Assuming macular degeneration and the like can be chalked up largely to ageism itself...What do you proscribe? Let's say...TV campaign to remoralize Old people. Fine?

Well, see, you've already gone on about how "there's old guys in better health than our youth". At that rate, innit our youth already rather screwed? We may have to wait a century or so for our complete batch of equally healthy old people, eh?
I'm not a doctor. I can only tell you what I do know and what I've observed.

So what would I prescribe? Err...healthy eating, healthy amounts of exercise, decent sleeping habits, and other habits that help you ease stress without negatively harming yourself--so basically, don't smoke or drink to make yourself feel better, since you're actually doing more harm.

Other than that--which is really just sound advice that any doctor would suggest--I'm not going to say anything.

Actually, I will say one more thing: I encourage research into this matter. For all I know my observations on the limited number of people may be a case of my misinterpreting data and I'm actually talking a bunch of crap.

But I could be right too. You and I don't know, but we should try to find out.

Oh, and another one more thing, just to clarify: I'm not trying to blame most age related problems on emotional states. I'm saying that emotional states are the main cause of people not taking advantage of the methods used to prevent those problems. Serious difference.,

Oh, and another one more thing, just to clarify: I'm not trying to blame most age related problems on emotional states. I'm saying that emotional states are the main cause of people not taking advantage of the methods used to prevent those problems. Serious difference.,

Hmm, how much can we prevent, anyhow? Not just correct, mind you.

Hmm, how much can we prevent, anyhow? Not just correct, mind you.

As I said, I'm not a doctor. I honestly don't know.

But simple logic plus what I've seen dictates that a lot of it is preventable--or at least reduceable--through healthy habits that I've mentioned many times. I've seen men and women in their eighties outplay teens at bloody soccer.

...

Though that was probably a special case and is most likely not indicative of what to expect from the overall population.

But medical science is advancing every day. Just ask Dempublicents when it comes to stem cell research, for instance.

* progressive tax with no deductions or exemptions

Well, I guess I won't be voting for him for sure now. Without deductions and exemptions we wouldn't as a family be able to afford my husband's and my tuition, or our family health care. I guess health care and education aren't important to the "compassionate liberal" though right?

Well, I guess I won't be voting for him for sure now. Without deductions and exemptions we wouldn't as a family be able to afford my husband's and my tuition, or our family health care. I guess health care and education aren't important to the "compassionate liberal" though right?

I think the idea is to try to cut down on deductions and exemptions for the rich--a good idea--but going overboard and saying absolutely no exemptions or deductions is ridiculous.

geee i suppose i could have read the ageism rants but really

77 (79 the year he would take office) is far too old to be president of the united states.

take a look at a picture of the current president from 2001 when he took office and then look at him today? he's aged about 20 years. they all do.

gravel is too old (and too awful), john mccain is too old, ron paul is too old.

geee i suppose i could have read the ageism rants but really

77 (79 the year he would take office) is far too old to be president of the united states.

take a look at a picture of the current president from 2001 when he took office and then look at him today? he's aged about 20 years. they all do.

gravel is too old (and too awful), john mccain is too old, ron paul is too old.
True, true. POTUS is an extremely stressful job. That's why people who run ought to be quite healthy.

But age shouldn't be considered a factor except to make you look closer at the person's health. If their health is satisfactory, then the age is meaningless.

True, true. POTUS is an extremely stressful job. That's why people who run ought to be quite healthy.

But age shouldn't be considered a factor except to make you look closer at the person's health. If their health is satisfactory, then the age is meaningless.

age and aging is a fact of life that cannot be overlooked.

age and aging is a fact of life that cannot be overlooked.

And with modern understanding of nutrition, the benefits of exercise, reducing stress, as well as modern medicine, the problems of age can be significantly reduced, and with further medical development, eliminated entirely.

Ageism made sense when we didn't have this knowledge. It makes no sense now, however, especially when you take into account--if we're talking about electing people to high offices--that people running for those offices are typically rich and thus able to afford superb health care.

I think the idea is to try to cut down on deductions and exemptions for the rich--a good idea--but going overboard and saying absolutely no exemptions or deductions is ridiculous.

The rich don't get many deductions or exemptions, most of them cap out at about $250,000 a year and many start to decline in value well before that. Deductions and exemptions are for the middle class and the working class to be able to live while still paying taxes. The only deduction that the rich really still have is charitable giving, which I doubt anyone wants to really squash, I mean if the rich aren't giving millions and millions to charity who is taking care of the poor?

The rich don't get many deductions or exemptions, most of them cap out at about $250,000 a year and many start to decline in value well before that. Deductions and exemptions are for the middle class and the working class to be able to live while still paying taxes. The only deduction that the rich really still have is charitable giving, which I doubt anyone wants to really squash, I mean if the rich aren't giving millions and millions to charity who is taking care of the poor?

Oh.

Well in that case this guy is a complete and total idiot.

Oh.

Well in that case this guy is a complete and total idiot.

meh, he appeals to the masses who know nothing about anything and only care about what sounds good I suppose.

I was curious to see if anyone liked him?

Not really, but I really don't like any of the canidates from any of the parties.
In fact I don't even really like the last 43 presidents.