NationStates Jolt Archive

I came across this article:

http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm

And a more recent version:

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/anything-oil/

This seems really interesting, especially if it works as well as they claim. Any chemists here know anything more about this or heard anything?

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No idea.

I'm not much into chemistry. Physics? Maybe. Quantum Mechanics? Maybe.

I've heard it works. I don't know how efficient or cost effective it is though. The greenhouse nutters will probably try and stop it too. (But they won't be happy until we are living in caves).

I've heard it works. I don't know how efficient or cost effective it is though. The greenhouse nutters will probably try and stop it too. (But they won't be happy until we are living in caves).

From everything I've read, the only thing keeping it from being cost effective here was the US hasn't banned using turkey and chicken offal as feed.

I dunno really, I've only read a few articles (one of dubious value) and the wiki entry. I just read the two above articles and was thinking "That's so cool! Does it really work?"

Yeah, it works. It's not really new either. Unless you consider being developed for commercial use in 1996 to be new.

The problem with it now is inefficiency. Just... read the wiki page or something. Tells you all you need to know.

Oh, it's all sound really..but it's old hat. That, and when the tree-huggers finally catch on, it's going down. Especially when they go all Animal Liberation Front on us and start firebombing people who are delivering packages for a company that occasionally delivers packages for the guy involved.

Yeah, that's gibberish.

The process works fine and can woprk commercially, but only if you use waste meat. It's not economical to grow cows, chickens, ducks, turkeys or pigs to turn into oil. If you have waste from a meat packing facility then you have free input in the sense that the input will exist whether you use it or not. As such, it has an upper limit to production that is set by how much meat we eat.

edit: as for the greenhouse stuff, since any carbon released will be reabsorbed by growing plants for feed to grow more pig, chicken and cow for food and fuel there is theorhetically no addition to GHGs in the process.

Yup. Me and a couple other folks had a great thread about this a year or two back.

Turkey giblets and milk cartons! Yay!

They've been hounded by people complaining about the odor. Funny thing is, the complaints keep coming from the same people who seem to disappear soon after the complaint and so does the odor. Nevertheless, the powers that be seem to take such anonymous complaints about phantom odors seriously enough to shut down the plant repeatedly and force them to install expensive air scrubbing equipment. It's amazing how swift government can be sometimes when it amuses them to be. :p

No idea, of course. :p Maybe a science-minded volunteer could put it into plain English for us? ;)

They've been hounded by people complaining about the odor. Funny thing is, the complaints keep coming from the same people who seem to disappear soon after the complaint and so does the odor. Nevertheless, the powers that be seem to take such anonymous complaints about phantom odors seriously enough to shut down the plant repeatedly and force them to install expensive air scrubbing equipment. It's amazing how swift government can be sometimes when it amuses them to be. :p

Don't you see? These people are like Foul Ole Ron. They get around to people's offices and make their complaints, and before you know it, the officials in charge will be begging to make those checks, so long as Ron and his Smell go away. :p

No idea, of course. :p Maybe a science-minded volunteer could put it into plain English for us? ;)

I'll do my best.

Most organic compounds consist of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and occasionally nitrogen in complex molecules called polymers. When these organic compounds are superheated at very high pressure, they break down into simpler, stabler compounds. The simpler compounds end up being mostly oil, natural gas, water, leftover carbon, and nitrogenated trace minerals. It's almost exactly the same process that oil and natural gas is produced naturally but at a much faster scale.

Efficiency depends greatly on the composition of the waste being fed into it. But waste with high amounts of organic compounds(sewage, rubber, plastics, animal waste) can produce enough natural gas to self-power the process with a net 'profit' of significant amounts of oil, carbon and high grade fertilizer. *nod*

I'll do my best.

Most organic compounds consist of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and occasionally nitrogen in complex molecules called polymers. When these organic compounds are superheated at very high pressure, they break down into simpler, stabler compounds. The simpler compounds end up being mostly oil, natural gas, water, leftover carbon, and nitrogenated trace minerals. It's almost exactly the same process that oil and natural gas is produced naturally but at a much faster scale.

Efficiency depends greatly on the composition of the waste being fed into it. But waste with high amounts of organic compounds(sewage, rubber, plastics, animal waste) can produce enough natural gas to self-power the process with a net 'profit' of significant amounts of oil, carbon and high grade fertilizer. *nod*

Aha. That's cool. Some of it sounds familiar from way back. Thanks! :p

I used to suffer from thermal depolymerisation but I got some ointment and now I wear gloves so it's much better thanks.

I have a modest proposal - perhaps if the US wishes to continue its dependence on oil and not have any social security system they could grind up the poor and use this process to turn them into oil.

I have a modest proposal - perhaps if the US wishes to continue its dependence on oil and not have any social security system they could grind up the poor and use this process to turn them into oil.

Tell it like it is Swift

Reminds me of this canard some time ago, even went through the news agencies until it was discovered to be a hoax:

A German inventor has angered animal rights activists with his answer to fighting the soaring cost of fuel -- dead cats.
Christian Koch, 55, from the eastern county of Saxony, told Bild newspaper that his organic diesel fuel -- a home-made blend of garbage, run-over cats, and other ingredients -- is a proven alternative to normal consumer diesel.

"I drive my normal diesel-powered car with this mixture," Koch said. "I have gone 170,000 km (106,000 miles) without a problem."

The Web site of Koch's firm, "Alphakat GmbH," says his patented "KDV 500" machine can produce what he calls the "bio-diesel" fuel at about 23 euro cents (30 cents) a litre, which is about one-fifth the price at petrol stations now.

Koch said around 20 dead cats added into the mix could help produce enough fuel to fill up a 50-litre (11 gallon) tank.

But the president of the German Society for the Protection of Animals, Wolfgang Apel, said using dead cats for fuel was illegal.

"There's no danger for cats and dogs in Germany because this practice is outlawed in Germany," Apel told Bild on Wednesday in a story entitled "Can you really make fuel out of cats?"

"We're going to keep an eye on this case," Apel said.

It may not be a perfect solution, but even if all it does is produce oil that can be used for heating I think it's a pretty cool idea.

It may not be a perfect solution, but even if all it does is produce oil that can be used for heating I think it's a pretty cool idea.

Even if all it does is create a way to recycle sewage, it's a pretty cool idea! :p