NationStates Jolt Archive

35W bridge over Mississippi collapsed

People were crawling to rescue Wednesday after the 35W bridge over the Mississippi River has collapsed. Cars were on fire.

Witnesses have told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that people are in the water.

5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crews estimate as many as 50 vehicles are in the crash.

Police began a rescue operation to save those people. Emergency crews are on the scene.

Witnesses tell us they heard a loud rubbling noise before the collapse.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S156329.shtml?cat=1

The 35W Bridge over the Mississippi River has just collapsed. No news yet on how many are injured or worse and how many escaped. I spotted at least one bus.

[Edit]
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=261140
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3946186&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

fuck!

"Now I do not believe you wanted to do that!":p

Yeah I saw this on CNN just a while ago. Sad.

You know though, this same thing can happen to nearly every bridge on the Miss. if the New Madrid fault releases a large quake, which many experts say may happen with in the next 30 yrs. :eek:

I guess right now we should try to figure out the cause of the bridge collapse. Right now my money is on poor maintenance but since we know little to nothing...

I did hear that every ambulance in the city is being rushed to the scene...kind of telling.

I bet this is due to the shoddy condition of US infrastructure. 30% of bridges are structurally deficient, and I have no doubt that played a role in this. Hopefully it will make people realize that you can't shortchange infrastructure without devastating effect,

The transportation adviser in Sim City 2000 was right...

Even aside from all the people who got hurt, the city is going to be defending lawsuits until the end of time. x-X

I guess right now we should try to figure out the cause of the bridge collapse. Right now my money is on poor maintenance but since we know little to nothing...

I did hear that every ambulance in the city is being rushed to the scene...kind of telling.

There was construction going on, at the time, from what one guy on the scene said. Evidently a jack hammer was being used at the time of the collapse

I bet this is due to the shoddy condition of US infrastructure. 30% of bridges are structurally deficient, and I have no doubt that played a role in this. Hopefully it will make people realize that you can't shortchange infrastructure without devastating effect,

The transportation adviser in Sim City 2000 was right...

Every time some one mentions that game, it makes me want to play. But i lost it and don't have it any more :'(

Every time some one mentions that game, it makes me want to play. But i lost it and don't have it any more :'(

Yeah, I accidentally broke my Sim City 3000 Unlimited cd in half when it fell to the bottom of my laptop bag...:(

I bet this is due to the shoddy condition of US infrastructure. 30% of bridges are structurally deficient, and I have no doubt that played a role in this. Hopefully it will make people realize that you can't shortchange infrastructure without devastating effect,

The transportation adviser in Sim City 2000 was right...
Suddenly this makes me even more glad I rarely go anywhere.

There was construction going on, at the time, from what one guy on the scene said. Evidently a jack hammer was being used at the time of the collapse
I don't see how a single jackhammer could cause an interstate to collapse. It might have set off some defect that then snowballed into the collapse, however.

Yeah, I accidentally broke my Sim City 3000 Unlimited cd in half when it fell to the bottom of my laptop bag...:(

Oh damn. I'd send you mine, but I can't find it.

But there's always the Internet!

Suddenly this makes me even more glad I rarely go anywhere.

There are some serious problems out there. Hopefully things like this will motivate improvements in roads and bridges just like the 2003 blackout led to huge improvements in the power infrastructure.


I don't see how a single jackhammer could cause an interstate to collapse. It might have set off some defect that then snowballed into the collapse, however.

My guess would be resonance frequency or something like that; it cause an already weakened bridge to give in for good, with disastrous results. Hopefully any losses and injuries are at a minimum.

Oh damn. I'd send you mine, but I can't find it.

But there's always the Internet!

That's probably what I'll do. ;)

I just talked to a friend of mine who goes UMN about this, actually. Apparently, yes, there was construction happening at the time. And, before the bridge collapsed, there was a sound like a jackhammer or something. I'm simply impressed that many bystanders, from what I've heard, jumped into the river to help people out of their cars and such.

There are some serious problems out there. Hopefully things like this will motivate improvements in roads and bridges just like the 2003 blackout led to huge improvements in the power infrastructure.


You'd think by this point with information so widely distributed humanity wouldn't need accidents like this telling us what we need to do. Sad.


My guess would be resonance frequency or something like that; it cause an already weakened bridge to give in for good, with disastrous results. Hopefully any losses and injuries are at a minimum.

We shall see.


That's probably what I'll do. ;)
Good idea.

There was construction going on, at the time, from what one guy on the scene said. Evidently a jack hammer was being used at the time of the collapse

That doesn't seem like it would matter.

There was construction going on, at the time, from what one guy on the scene said. Evidently a jack hammer was being used at the time of the collapse

Yeah won't that be some sad shit if come to find out it collapsed from that or something else going on from the work being done. I'm already asking why in the hell it and the pass beneath it wasn't closed off in the first place! Someone scared people might have to miss a day of work, or a kid miss a day of school while it's being repaired? Sad. :(

Yeah won't that be some sad shit if come to find out it collapsed from that or something else going on from the work being done. I'm already asking why in the hell it and the pass beneath it wasn't closed off in the first place! Someone scared people might have to miss a day of work, or a kid miss a day of school while it's being repaired? Sad. :(

Takes more than a day to do that. Anyways, they were resurfacing the road. Not like they were doing major repairs. They do not close off roads to put new pavement down.

But this just makes me hate crossing bridges all the more.

Yeah won't that be some sad shit if come to find out it collapsed from that or something else going on from the work being done. I'm already asking why in the hell it and the pass beneath it wasn't closed off in the first place! Someone scared people might have to miss a day of work, or a kid miss a day of school while it's being repaired? Sad. :(
You obviously have a optimistic view of state employed construction crews. They have been resurfacing a mile of road here for about a year. And there has been the same construction project going on on the roads around the Nashville Airport for the past decade..

Gee, it's only 40 years old. Whoever built it, did a terrible job.

Takes more than a day to do that. Anyways, they were resurfacing the road. Not like they were doing major repairs. They do not close off roads to put new pavement down.

But this just makes me hate crossing bridges all the more.


My use of the word day wasn't literal. I don't care if it took a week or two weeks. You don't have traffic going on and under a bridge that has cracks in it. By cracks I'm not talking about the pavement.. I just heard on the news station that there were some weakened/cracked parts to the structure. But this just happened not long ago and there will be different information coming from different sources until it's found out exactly what happened.

You obviously have a optimistic view of state employed construction crews. They have been resurfacing a mile of road here for about a year. And there has been the same construction project going on on the roads around the Nashville Airport for the past decade..

Yeah they are the same way here. Took almost a year for them to do some fix ups to highway 52 in Winston it wasn't close to a mile in length. Most of the time they (the day crew) were sitting around shooting the shit with the other 'workers' and smoking cigarettes, the night crew I believe is who actually did the work. The city near where I live has some of the shittiest roads I've ever driven on.


I just hope not many are terribly injured or dead. :(

Apparently the bridge was supported by "tubular concrete" pillars - that's hollow concrete pillar! No wonder the thing just collapsed.

.. I just heard on the news station that there were some weakened/cracked parts to the structure.


Kind of obvious if the bridge collapsed.. :p

Yeah I saw this on CNN just a while ago. Sad.

You know though, this same thing can happen to nearly every bridge on the Miss. if the New Madrid fault releases a large quake, which many experts say may happen with in the next 30 yrs. :eek:

That fault will be a disaster as the bridges over the Mississippi don't have the features of the bay area bridges.

Just be glad it didn't happen further down river. This bridge was small by Mississippi river standards. If one around St. Louis went, it would be a whole lot worse.

That fault will be a disaster as the bridges over the Mississippi don't have the features of the bay area bridges.

Just be glad it didn't happen further down river. This bridge was small by Mississippi river standards. If one around St. Louis went, it would be a whole lot worse.

Yah no kidding. It takes long enough to get into STL as it is now. With one less bridge...Jeez, i shudder at that though.:(

Yah no kidding. It takes long enough to get into STL as it is now. With one less bridge...Jeez, i shudder at that though.:(

I know you're just trying to be funny, but my first statement was poorly worded.

What I meant was it was small so there weren't as many cars on it as there could've been had it been one of the mile+ length bridges downstream.

Gee, it's only 40 years old. Whoever built it, did a terrible job.

Decades of underfunding will undo any project, no matter how well built it was...this is almost certainly going to be due to serious neglect in the funding and maintenance of this bridge, and it's really sad because things like this are easily prevented, even if it means paying more in taxes.

You obviously have a optimistic view of state employed construction crews. They have been resurfacing a mile of road here for about a year. And there has been the same construction project going on on the roads around the Nashville Airport for the past decade..

Wow. They completely redid the downtown of my town (about 5 miles of pavement) in less than a week.

Wow. They completely redid the downtown of my town (about 5 miles of pavement) in less than a week.

The ultimate irony, IMO, was the repaving of the Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway in Cincinnati. By the time they were done, the parts which had been repaved first needed to be repaved again.

Reagan would have been appalled...

The ultimate irony, IMO, was the repaving of the Ronald Reagan Memorial Highway in Cincinnati. By the time they were done, the parts which had been repaved first needed to be repaved again.

Reagan would have been appalled...

Sounds a lot like the Mackinack Bridge. It takes so long to repaint it that as soon as they're finished they start again. Apparently the maintenance of the Bridge is going to be Dirty Jobs this month.

I bet this is due to the shoddy condition of US infrastructure. 30% of bridges are structurally deficient, and I have no doubt that played a role in this. Hopefully it will make people realize that you can't shortchange infrastructure without devastating effect,

The transportation adviser in Sim City 2000 was right...

"You have too many roads. Remove some to save on maintenance". :p

"You have too many roads. Remove some to save on maintenance". :p

Actually I once cut road maintenance down and the road system got a bit trashed.
So I end up rerouting roads for fun.

But you shouldn't do these things in real life, but it happens.

It looks like the trusses collapsed. A fatigue and fracture problem worsened by hot weather I'd guess. Or possibly they just let the steel go to shit.

The transportation adviser in Sim City 2000 was right...

that is one of the most awesome things I have ever heard, though sad, your applicable use of SimCity 2000 was pretty rockin'....

hey remember the bridge in minniapolis really tragic:eek:

hey if u watched the news that was really tragic:eek::(

there were 7 fatalites and 32+ injured:( :( :(

I was less then 2 miles away when it collapsed I had just got past the exit to 35wwow:eek:

I was less then 2 miles away when it collapsed I had just got past the exit to 35w

hey if u watched the news that was really tragic:eek::(

Already a thread on it on the first page ...

1). You just created a thread about this.
2). There's already one (well now two) threads about this on the front page.

I was less then 2 miles away when it collapsed I had just got past the exit to 35w

FUCK! Talk about timing!

Were you able to hear or see anything?

DJRammy: Odds are that toll will increase. Those numbers aren't fully tallied yet.

Also, I've been paying attention to the various news channels, and I've noticed something: though they all pointed to structural weakness as one of the probable causes, not a one mentioned the severe lack of funding. Not a one.

I find that rather telling, don't you?

FUCK! Talk about timing!

Were you able to hear or see anything?

DJRammy: Odds are that toll will increase. Those numbers aren't fully tallied yet.

Also, I've been paying attention to the various news channels, and I've noticed something: though they all pointed to structural weakness as one of the probable causes, not a one mentioned the severe lack of funding. Not a one.

I find that rather telling, don't you?

Yep good timing though I did not go across the bridge as I did not actually get on 35w but rather was on 94/694

Yep good timing though I did not go across the bridge as I did not actually get on 35w but rather was on 94/694
Yeah. But were you close enough to hear anything or see anything? I don't know the layout of the highways there, so this may be a stupid question, but bear with us. You're the closest thing to a witness we've got.

Yeah. But were you close enough to hear anything or see anything? I don't know the layout of the highways there, so this may be a stupid question, but bear with us. You're the closest thing to a witness we've got.

Nope did not hear anything ... though my windows were up and radio up (too warm needed air conditioning lol) and I got through before the traffic jammed up more then normal so I really did not find out anything until I got to practice which was promptly canceled ... as far as I know no one I know was on the bridge

Nope did not hear anything ... though my windows were up and radio up (too warm needed air conditioning lol) and I got through before the traffic jammed up more then normal so I really did not find out anything until I got to practice which was promptly canceled ... as far as I know no one I know was on the bridge

Right then. Good to know no one you knew was on the bridge.

Damn it. We need to hear from a witness...presuming said witness was willing to speak, of course.

CNN now has a security camera video
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/02/bridge.collapse/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Some engineer probably got his "minus signs" messed up. Oops.

Can someone with more time and greater Google-Fu skills tell me if they've released any of the names of the dead or injured?

I've got a lot of family in the Twin Cities, and I've been stuck at work all night with no word...I'm not too worried, but it would be nice to know.

First the CIA tells US that Lord Voldemort is back at the strength he had before 9-11 and now a bridge collapses? :eek:

This cannot be coincidence….. :(

And you misspelled Minneapoils in both of them.

First the CIA tells US that Lord Voldemort is back at the strength he had before 9-11 and now a bridge collapses? :eek:

This cannot be coincidence….. :(

This alarmist BS is not helping. I suppose Katrina was an act of terrorism, too? :rolleyes: We don't know how this happened yet, and to be making any speculation is irresponsible, to say the least. And if you just said this to be clever or funny, I'd suggest you grow up, noob.

This alarmist BS is not helping. I suppose Katrina was an act of terrorism, too? :rolleyes: We don't know how this happened yet, and to be making any speculation is irresponsible, to say the least. And if you just said this to be clever or funny, I'd suggest you grow up, noob.

meh :)

Current evidence points to terrorism as the most likely suspect; bridges don't collapse on their own. My theory is that this is simply a "test case" the terrorists are using to refine their technique. They want to gauge the effects of their devilish plot on a minor, relatively unimportant bridge prior to moving on to the "big game." As such, it would be prudent to beef up security at all major bridges and critical infrastructure targets in the US.

meh :)

Don't take it personally: he's often grouchy and intolerant. :)

Current evidence points to terrorism as the most likely suspect; bridges don't collapse on their own. My theory is that this is simply a "test case" the terrorists are using to refine their technique. They want to gauge the effects of their devilish plot on a minor, relatively unimportant bridge prior to moving on to the "big game." As such, it would be prudent to beef up security at all major bridges and critical infrastructure targets in the US.
What "Current evidence" ?

Don't take it personally: he's often grouchy and intolerant. :)

Lol you really should not be the one talking about tolerance ... or the lack there of.

What "Current evidence" ?

The recent strengthening of Al-Qaeda and the re-emergence of worldwide terrorism as a potent force, the elevated threat level, and the flurry of terrorist activity within the US for the past several month. It seems that it culminated in the bridge incident.

Don't take it personally: he's often grouchy and intolerant. :)

HAHA HA HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HA!

Woo.

Wow.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

Pots and kettles 'round the world are rendered obsolete.

Surely people have realised by now that there's no reason to argue with F.A.G. Deprive him of a willing opponent and he's no longer a problem

The recent strengthening of Al-Qaeda and the re-emergence of worldwide terrorism as a potent force, the elevated threat level, and the flurry of terrorist activity within the US for the past several month. It seems that it culminated in the bridge incident.

They sure seem to have their grip over you, they have you really terrorized ... even the homeland security department says there is no reason to suspect terrorism

Besides you can't really argue too well yet anyway. There really isn't enough evidence to support any theory yet.

Bridges don't just collapse? Wtf? Yes, they do, if engineered poorly and a set of unfortunate circumstances bring it about. Hell, poor engineering and the right amount of wind have lead to bridges collapsing due to resonating frequencies and that's recorded on video. o.O

Current evidence points to terrorism as the most likely suspect; bridges don't collapse on their own. My theory is that this is simply a "test case" the terrorists are using to refine their technique. They want to gauge the effects of their devilish plot on a minor, relatively unimportant bridge prior to moving on to the "big game." As such, it would be prudent to beef up security at all major bridges and critical infrastructure targets in the US.

Terrorism?! Everyone knows that collapsing bridges are definite signs of dark magic. :rolleyes:

8/1, Never Forget!

Current evidence points to terrorism as the most likely suspect; bridges don't collapse on their own. My theory is that this is simply a "test case" the terrorists are using to refine their technique. They want to gauge the effects of their devilish plot on a minor, relatively unimportant bridge prior to moving on to the "big game." As such, it would be prudent to beef up security at all major bridges and critical infrastructure targets in the US.

How did they make the bridge collapse then? Magic?

That means it was Voldermont's doing. Voldermont is a terrorist!

How did they make the bridge collapse then? Magic?

That means it was Voldermont's doing. Voldermont is a terrorist!

Finally someone who isn't afraid to see the truth... Voldemort has returned at full strength and is now destroying bridges *nod*

it's really sad. The fact is the highway system is in all sorts of disrepair and this will probably happen more often if something isn't done.

there is a group in my local area trying to get the bridges and roads fixed but everyone said "oh, they are fine, you just want money" until a bridge collapsed here not too long ago.......I hope some people realize now what a mess things are.

http://www.yarddogpress.com/images/Bridge_Collapse.jpg

Just confirmed that my family and friends in MN are all okay. Whew. My Dad used to drive that bridge every day.

Just confirmed that my family and friends in MN are all okay. Whew. My Dad used to drive that bridge every day.

Yay! I didn't know anyone in that area, but I know it sucks for something to happen and not know if your family/friends are okay.

This alarmist BS is not helping. I suppose Katrina was an act of terrorism, too? :rolleyes: We don't know how this happened yet, and to be making any speculation is irresponsible, to say the least. And if you just said this to be clever or funny, I'd suggest you grow up, noob.

I think that was a HP joke. ONe of the first things Voldemort does after his return is discovered is cause a bridge to collapse.

I think you need to grow up.

How did they make the bridge collapse then? Magic?

That means it was Voldermont's doing. Voldermont is a terrorist!

Personally I blame Cornelius Fudge.

Exclusive photo's complements of some friends of mine in mnbrass. These are some they took and as far as I am aware they did not post them to a news source

NSG special!

http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge1.jpg
http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge2.jpg
http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge3.jpg
http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge4.jpg
http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge5.jpg
http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge6.jpg

it's really sad. The fact is the highway system is in all sorts of disrepair and this will probably happen more often if something isn't done.

there is a group in my local area trying to get the bridges and roads fixed but everyone said "oh, they are fine, you just want money" until a bridge collapsed here not too long ago.......I hope some people realize now what a mess things are.

http://www.yarddogpress.com/images/Bridge_Collapse.jpg
Although you are absolutely correct about the condition of the bridges and roads on the interstate system, the culprit in the Oklahoma bridge collapse is visible in that photo. Even the best engineered bridge is likely to go down when rammed by a boat of sufficient size.

The Minnesota bridge collapse is shaping up to be a result of materials fatigue and bad engineering. But hey, if we can pass it off as terrorists, then we don't have to take responsibility for siphoning federal transportation funds into expensive Alaskan pork and war games for a tin pot president.

Hope the death toll stays low and everyone's friends and family are spared.

Current evidence points to terrorism as the most likely suspect; bridges don't collapse on their own. My theory is that this is simply a "test case" the terrorists are using to refine their technique. They want to gauge the effects of their devilish plot on a minor, relatively unimportant bridge prior to moving on to the "big game." As such, it would be prudent to beef up security at all major bridges and critical infrastructure targets in the US.

Right. That's why absolutely NONE of the report mention terrorism, and absolutely ALL of them mention the fact that there was construction on the bridge, leaving traffic down to two lanes out of four on each side of the bridge.

Take your trolling elsewhere.

Wow, amazing pics. thanks U.T.

Great pictures. It looks like the steel in one of the trusses in manky. Can't really tell though.

I really doubt this is terrorism though. Most likely the blame can be laid at the feet of city government.

Bridges don't just collapse? Wtf? Yes, they do, if engineered poorly and a set of unfortunate circumstances bring it about. Hell, poor engineering and the right amount of wind have lead to bridges collapsing due to resonating frequencies and that's recorded on video. o.O

"Galloping Gertie" Tacoma Narrows Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Skyway_Bridge
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=1585dfb7-0c6e-494a-809b-82e74b258145


Don't confuse the issue with facts, Liminus. ;) OBVIOUSLY Al-Quaeda had something to do with the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and others.

Dammit, you're right! I feel so foolish and shamed to not have seen that the terrorists have wind and sea controlling technologies. I must go cleanse myself of my intellectual deficiencies. :(

They had some bridge issues in Montreal, Canada not too long ago - that may have been built around the same time - of course this bridge is much larger it seems. I was originally told that there was a train track (and have again been told there was a train track under it) It could have been a variety of issues ... but max load and previous stress to the bridge such as vibrations from trains - the load the bridge was bearing with construction equipment.

The conspiracy is that the steel support girders (one or more were severed) perhaps by accident by the construction crew...

anyway - --- the things are suppose to survive stress - what it could have been was "weight distrobution" that is a redistrobution of weight to one part of the road causing misalignment (maybe) with added weight from vehicles and construction vehicles if applicable --- the bridge moved enough to snap a supporter then it was a like dominos.

I just heard that a 2005 USDOT report found it structurally deficient. Probably they ignored it because so many other bridges are classified that way.

Wow, amazing pics. thanks U.T.

No problems ... if they get more I will put them on my server as well

Well I just found out someone in Drum Corps with me was on the bridge when it went down ... She is fine no major injuries and apparently has pictures of her car close up ... waiting for her to get them to me

Right. That's why absolutely NONE of the report mention terrorism

The liberal media downplays, yet again, the threat of terrorism? What a shocker! :eek:

and absolutely ALL of them mention the fact that there was construction on the bridge

So the bridge, by some cosmic coincidence, just happens to fall when its structural integrity is in the process of being improved?

leaving traffic down to two lanes out of four on each side of the bridge.

Not only that, but traffic volume was decreased at this point, putting significantly less strain on the bridge. I'm simply not buying the "it fell on its own" explanation; terrorism seems to be the more likely candidate. Of course, it is pure conjecture at this point until firmer evidence surfaces (although it may have been lost in the river).

Careful FAG, you're starting to sound quite funny.

Starting to get to comfy in your role, methinks.

The liberal media downplays, yet again, the threat of terrorism? What a shocker! :eek:



So the bridge, by some cosmic coincidence, just happens to fall when its structural integrity is in the process of being improved?



Not only that, but traffic volume was decreased at this point, putting significantly less strain on the bridge. I'm simply not buying the "it fell on its own" explanation; terrorism seems to be the more likely candidate. Of course, it is pure conjecture at this point until firmer evidence surfaces (although it may have been lost in the river).
:headbang: What? You can't seriously believe any of that? It makes sense that, while working on the admittedly poor structure of the bridge, that it collapsed...because they were screwing with its structure, omg! And the traffic on the bridge was packed bumper to bumper at a dead stop. It may have been decreased, but it was definitely more concentrated.

Careful FAG, you're starting to sound quite funny.

Starting to get to comfy in your role, methinks.

If by "funny" you mean "conscientiously applying logic to plumb the depths of this harrowing problem," then I'm a regular clown. Do you honestly believe that the bridge would fall down at the exact moment when it was being structurally strengthened and the traffic volume was lower?

If by "funny" you mean "conscientiously applying logic to plumb the depths of this harrowing problem," then I'm a regular clown. Do you honestly believe that the bridge would fall down at the exact moment when it was being structurally strengthened and the traffic volume was lower?

It was not being "structurally strengthened" do your homework. It was being resurfaced it had nothing to do with the infrastructure.

...because they were screwing with its structure

I disagree with the usage of the term "screwing." It implies that they were mischieviously tinkering with the structure, which they were not; they were simply upgrading and repairing it to withstand greater strains. It's like not getting bullied in school until the day you should up with a baseball bat -- it just doesn't happen.

It may have been decreased, but it was definitely more concentrated.

And if you compact a single car into a one foot by one foot cube and place it on the middle of the bridge, then it would be even more concentrated. However, it would certainly not lead to the collapse of the bridge. Why? Because total weight is the critical factor, not concentration.

The liberal media downplays, yet again, the threat of terrorism? What a shocker! :eek:

The Homeland Security Department said the collapse did not appear to be terrorism-related, but Hennepin County Sheriff Richard Stanek said Thursday that the cause of the collapse was still unknown.

"All indications are that it was a collapse, not an act of someone doing it," Stanek said.

Yes, it's such a strong bias that even the Homeland Security Dept. and a local sheriff's office are downplaying terrorism as a cause! Amazing, the reach of liberals, these days.

So the bridge, by some cosmic coincidence, just happens to fall when its structural integrity is in the process of being improved?

Not only that, but traffic volume was decreased at this point, putting significantly less strain on the bridge. I'm simply not buying the "it fell on its own" explanation; terrorism seems to be the more likely candidate. Of course, it is pure conjecture at this point until firmer evidence surfaces (although it may have been lost in the river).

The White House said Thursday that an inspection two years ago found structural deficiencies in the bridge. White House press secretary Tony Snow said the Interstate 35W span rated 50 on a scale of 120 for structural stability.

...

Sloan said his crew was placing concrete finish on the bridge for what he called a routine resurfacing project. "It was the final item on this phase of the project. Suddenly the bridge gave way," he said.

This was a bridge in poor shape getting resurfaced. No structural improvements, just heavy machinery stripping and replacing a layer of concrete, which can place quite a bit of strain on a bridge already rated poorly in structural integrity. Best guess for now is structural failure due to poor maintenance, not the terrorist bogeyman you're so paranoid about.

I honestly believe you ain't what you used to be.

*shakes head sadly*

Well, in that case, I'm sorry. However, I honestly believe that if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, you should politely stay out of it and not spam. Just a general pointer.

I disagree with the usage of the term "screwing." It implies that they were mischieviously tinkering with the structure, which they were not; they were simply upgrading and repairing it to withstand greater strains. It's like not getting bullied in school until the day you should up with a baseball bat -- it just doesn't happen.


They were not improving the structure
You fail

If by "funny" you mean "conscientiously applying logic to plumb the depths of this harrowing problem," then I'm a regular clown. Do you honestly believe that the bridge would fall down at the exact moment when it was being structurally strengthened and the traffic volume was lower?
I honestly believe you ain't what you used to be.

*shakes head sadly*

Well, in that case, I'm sorry. However, I honestly believe that if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, you should politely stay out of it and not spam. Just a general pointer.
His post was on par with the quality contribution as yours.

They were not improving the structure
You fail

They were resurfacing the bridge; the surface of the bridge bears a substantial part of the normal "wear and tear" associated with regular traffic flow. As such, it slowly degraded with the passage of time and becomes less reliable. The construction focused on this structural aspect of the bridge. I don't wish to play semantics with you regarding what constitutes "structural improvement" -- almost anybody would call the re-paving of a road to be a "structural improvement."

They were resurfacing the bridge; the surface of the bridge bears a substantial part of the normal "wear and tear" associated with regular traffic flow. As such, it slowly degraded with the passage of time and becomes less reliable. The construction focused on this structural aspect of the bridge. I don't wish to play semantics with you regarding what constitutes "structural improvement" -- almost anybody would call the re-paving of a road to be a "structural improvement."

Except you know the experts this has nothing to do with semantics you claimed that they were improving the structure to take increased load

That is simply false

The repair they were doing had nothing to do with the structure and was to have no impact on the "strain" it can take as you claimed

Its clear as day you are either incompetent or purposely being obtuse either is pathetic.

Well, in that case, I'm sorry.
And so you should be!

His post was on par with the quality contribution as yours.
.....hey! :p

*joins al Qaeda super bridge destroyer action team*

...the repair they were doing had nothing to do with the structure

So you believe the surface of the bridge to be completely unrelated to its structure? And you're calling me "obtuse"?

So you believe the surface of the bridge to be completely unrelated to its structure? And you're calling me "obtuse"?

The US department of transportation apparently does not consider it structure

"The bridge was undergoing nonstructural re-decking work, U.S. Transportation Department spokesman Brian Turmail said."

Again not only was it non structural work it was not work designed to increase its ability to withstand "strain" as you put it.

The US department of transportation apparently does not consider it structure

A sluggish, inefficient, and astoundingly uninformed bureaucratic office errs once again? Stop the presses!

A sluggish, inefficient, and astoundingly uninformed bureaucratic office errs once again? Stop the presses!

Could be ... but they are a lot more of an expert on the matter then you are. Care to show someone with an actual informed opinion backing YOUR statements of structural improvements?

Either way bridge with noted structural deficiencies that were NOT being repaired collapsed. logically its the terrorists :rolleyes:

logically its the terrorists :rolleyes:

It may have collapsed on its own, but considering the evidence, the verdict must be in favor of terrorist malice. Think about it: if you were fervently dedicated to destroying a bridge and wished to perfect your technique, would you attempt to level a strong, structurally sound bridge or a weaker one in order to allay suspicion? To catch these abhorrent creeps, you must think like them.

It may have collapsed on its own, but considering the evidence, the verdict must be in favor of terrorist malice. Think about it: if you were fervently dedicated to destroying a bridge and wished to perfect your technique, would you attempt to level a strong, structurally sound bridge or a weaker one in order to allay suspicion? To catch these abhorrent creeps, you must think like them.

I posted this earlier, but it seems to have been overlooked, so:

The Homeland Security Department said the collapse did not appear to be terrorism-related, but Hennepin County Sheriff Richard Stanek said Thursday that the cause of the collapse was still unknown.

"All indications are that it was a collapse, not an act of someone doing it," Stanek said.

The department of the U.S. government designed to defend against terrorism doesn't think the collapse is terrorism. What makes you more qualified to call it terrorism?

The department of the U.S. government designed to defend against terrorism doesn't think the collapse is terrorism. What makes you more qualified to call it terrorism?

He's in the Internet Army, duh. "Fighting them online instead of volunteering for the real Army."

Another interesting one from a friend.
http://www.youdontevenrealize.com/pictures/bridge/bridge7.jpg

The department of the U.S. government designed to defend against terrorism doesn't think the collapse is terrorism.

Your clever and subtle distortion of the message hasn't passed unnoticed. The official claimed that it did not appear to be terrorism-related; you stated that he doesn't think it was terrorism-related. Do you see the difference? Recall the old statement: "appearences may be deceiving." Although he may rationally believe the act to be terrorism-related due to his logical capacity, the event does not appear so.

For example, say you watch a magic trick and it appears that a coin is in the magician's left hand. You can state that it appears to be there. Then the magician repeats the same exact trick once more. This time, you are absolutely certain that the coin is not in the magician's left hand, but it nonetheless appears to be there. Can you comprehend this significant distinction?

Another interesting one from a friend.
Blimey!

It's amazing 'only' seven people have died, IIRC.

Blimey!

It's amazing 'only' seven people have died, IIRC.

Last I heard the number is actually down to 4 according to the corners there was some screwup in the numbers (still 20 missing apparently)

Last I heard the number is actually down to 4 according to the corners there was some screwup in the numbers (still 20 missing apparently)
Still, between four and twenty-five people dying is still a much smaller amount from what the initial pics seemed to be telling.

Oh, and lawlzerz on the 'corners' [/spelling nazi]

Your clever and subtle distortion of the message hasn't passed unnoticed. The official claimed that it did not appear to be terrorism-related; you stated that he doesn't think it was terrorism-related. Do you see the difference? Recall the old statement: "appearences may be deceiving." Although he may rationally believe the act to be terrorism-related due to his logical capacity, the event does not appear so.

For example, say you watch a magic trick and it appears that a coin is in the magician's left hand. You can state that it appears to be there. Then the magician repeats the same exact trick once more. This time, you are absolutely certain that the coin is not in the magician's left hand, but it nonetheless appears to be there. Can you comprehend this significant distinction?

Of course. For example, you appear to be making an argument that you think this is terrorism when official sources are saying it probably isn't. The significant distinction here is that you are pulling everything you say out of the cavernous pit of your own ass, while the Department of Homeland Security is actually qualified to make judgments, albeit loose ones, about whether or not this is terrorist activity. I'll take their qualified suppositions much more seriously than your bullshit arguments any day, thank you.

See the distinction?

Well, in that case, I'm sorry. However, I honestly believe that if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion at hand, you should politely stay out of it and not spam. Just a general pointer.
Go away troll. If it was terrorism, I honestly think Bush would've said so when he spoke this morning.

Go get a fucking clue.

If it was terrorism, I honestly think Bush would've said so when he spoke this morning.

Bush does not make hasty assumptions without adequate verification and consultation of the available data. It would be premature to state that it was terrorism as there is insufficient corroborating evidence. He wants to ensure that his rational line of thinking is factually accurate prior to committing himself to a decisive statement.

Bush does not make hasty assumptions without adequate verification and consultation of the available data. It would be premature to state that it was terrorism as there is insufficient corroborating evidence. He wants to ensure that his rational line of thinking is factually accurate prior to committing himself to a decisive statement.

Wow.

Just. Wow.

I work at the Star Tribune newspaper (which is located just three blocks away from the bridge) and there have been reports from a few years ago that the bridge was "structurally deficient," and had a rating of just 50 percent, the threshold for replacement.

This is the sort of thing that is being debated as we speak on how our Governor who has had the policy of "no new taxes" has hurt the state of Minnesota much more than it has helped. With taxes (which I too agree I am not a fan of...) does helps build and repair roads, helps with the local public school system, health care, and local police so society ends up getting a higher standard of living.

I feel the public around the Twin Cites are getting fed up with the nickle and dime approach of our great state and that we SHOULD invest into the state to make it better.

-NRJ

latest I've heard was 4 confirmed dead and 70+ injured. anyone has an update?

He's in the Internet Army, duh. "Fighting them online instead of volunteering for the real Army."

... do you really want him armed with military grade weapons?

I still want to know how the terrorists did it with no one being able to tell.

... do you really want him armed with military grade weapons?

"Here's your weapon son."

"Why is it plastic?"

"New lightweight guns."

"What about the orange tip?"

"Safety precaution. GET OUT THERE SOLDIER!"

:D

(He's the one who said he's more beneficial to the war arguing on an internet forum.)

What "Current evidence" ?

The evidence currently in F&G's head.

I work at the Star Tribune newspaper
Dude, the Strib sucks donkey balls.

This is the sort of thing that is being debated as we speak on how our Governor who has had the policy of "no new taxes" has hurt the state of Minnesota much more than it has helped. With taxes (which I too agree I am not a fan of...) does helps build and repair roads, helps with the local public school system, health care, and local police so society ends up getting a higher standard of living.
Except that new transit amendment didn't allocate all cash to roads, a lot of it went into 'transit' which is just another name right now for the LRT lines that the big cities have been pushing. I'd say that the lack of funds has a hell of a lot more to do with the money being mismanaged by the local and state governments. Look at it this way, the metro buses have never turned a profit. Ever. So why do you think LRT would be any different? If no one is riding buses that have changeable routes then why would anyone ride trains stuck on set tracks? And what has the met council done that they haven't screwed up royally?

You know, maybe if half of the state's budget weren't tied up in public the education with more being piled on it every year and didn't have a certain mayor proposing to throw away millions for rooftop gardens there might be some money left over for roads and cops

I feel the public around the Twin Cites are getting fed up with the nickle and dime approach of our great state and that we SHOULD invest into the state to make it better.

-NRJ
I'm from EP and you should know we're not all on your side.

Now let's remember to stay on the topic of the bridge collapse people.

If no one is riding buses that have changeable routes then why would anyone ride trains stuck on set tracks?
I don't know, ask the east coast. Changeable routes is the problem, you hardly know where they will be or when they will be there. Trains have a schedule. You show up in a specific place, wait for it to get there, then go to where you are going.

I still want to know how the terrorists did it with no one being able to tell.

They used psychic powers DUH.

latest I've heard was 4 confirmed dead and 70+ injured. anyone has an update?Twenty-Thirty are missing.:(

I don't think there is much hope there. Visibility is under a foot and divers can't go in because the current is shifting the position of the bridge wreckage.

Twenty-Thirty are missing.:(

I don't think there is much hope there. Visibility is under a foot and divers can't go in because the current is shifting the position of the bridge wreckage.
There are 30 missing and at least 7 dead last I heard on the radio.

As for the reason for the collapse, it wasn't terrorism. My money is on either corrosion or fatigue.

Bush does not make hasty assumptions without adequate verification and consultation of the available data. It would be premature to state that it was terrorism as there is insufficient corroborating evidence. He wants to ensure that his rational line of thinking is factually accurate prior to committing himself to a decisive statement.

HAHAHAHA!!!!! That's hilar... HAHAHAHA!!!!! No, stop, you're killing me... Bush does not want to... HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!:D

A virtually undetectable method of hastening the bridge's collapse would be to undermine its underwater supports.

One can only presume its the same substance that was used to dissolve your synapses.......

They used psychic powers DUH.

A virtually undetectable method of hastening the bridge's collapse would be to undermine its underwater supports.

A virtually undetectable method of hastening the bridge's collapse would be to undermine its underwater supports.

It's nearly impossible for divers to operate down there.

The bridge is built between two spillways where there is fairly rapid waterflow.

Mix in the fact that you would need a lot of equipment and that visibility is 6 inches in that water.

Go get yourself a fucking clue. You give conservatives a bad name, but then again I figure you're really a liberal and a troll who is trying to do that. Either that or you have been out in the sun too long.

Professional divers can't even get in the water just to look in the windows of submerged cars to see if anyone is in there. I can't imagine how terrorists would be able to get in there with tons of heavy equipment when the bridge is in full view of thousands of people.

This must be a bad accident - some one from our local city news station (in Alabama) is there reporting.

This is what happens when a country doesn't have an economy that can maintain basic infrastructure. We haven't had such an economy since we started tinkle down economics. Sooner or later the chickens come home to roost.

This is what happens when a country doesn't have an economy that can maintain basic infrastructure. We haven't had such an economy since we started tinkle down economics. Sooner or later the chickens come home to roost.

The % of GDP that government spending comprises is higher now than when all this infrastructure was built. It's got nothing to do with economic theory, and everything to do with misplaced spending priorities.

The % of GDP that government spending comprises is higher now than when all this infrastructure was built. It's got nothing to do with economic theory, and everything to do with misplaced spending priorities.

i wonder if they actually had built that giant bridge to nowhere whether they would have invested any money maintaining it or not

It's nearly impossible for divers to operate down there.

The bridge is built between two spillways where there is fairly rapid waterflow.

Mix in the fact that you would need a lot of equipment and that visibility is 6 inches in that water.

Go get yourself a fucking clue. You give conservatives a bad name, but then again I figure you're really a liberal and a troll who is trying to do that. Either that or you have been out in the sun too long.

Professional divers can't even get in the water just to look in the windows of submerged cars to see if anyone is in there. I can't imagine how terrorists would be able to get in there with tons of heavy equipment when the bridge is in full view of thousands of people.

They don't have to be underawater with tons of equipment. They have psychic powers.


Shanananananana

i wonder if they actually had built that giant bridge to nowhere whether they would have invested any money maintaining it or not

Probably. Up there in alaska you need more frequent scheduled maintenance because of the weather.

The NTSB just said that they were going to be looking at the cement, amongst other things. That hardly inspires confidence.

The NTSB just said that they were going to be looking at the cement, amongst other things. That hardly inspires confidence.

After a bridge spontaneously collapses there's not a lot of confidence to lose.

Hopefuly the government will spend the money on bridge inspection.

no, this is all part of the plan to shrink the government down small enough so it can drown you in the mississippi.

More action needs to be taken to insure that this never happens again.

Hopefuly the government will spend the money on bridge inspection.

After a bridge spontaneously collapses there's not a lot of confidence to lose.

Apparently it was a bad design. No redundancy in the main trusses, and fatigue cracking was not very well understood back then.

Still, a bridge collapsing is not unprecedented. It happens every couple of years or so. (I don't have an exact figure). The big deal here is that it happened in a major urban area, at rush hour.

If it had the decency to collapse in the wee small hours of the morning on a busy news day like the west side highway in NYC, no-one would give it all that much thought.

More action needs to be taken to insure that this never happens again.

Hopefuly the government will spend the money on bridge inspection.

The bridge was inspected twice in the last 3 years and was just about to have another one.

Spending money on bridge inspections doesn't work.

What the hell does it matter when the Federal government inspects bridges and the state of Minnesota refuses to act on the reports. (It is their responsibility as it was their bridge on their road.) In the end it won't be because of a funding issue. I can pretty much guarantee it will be an engineering issue.

Now this is just speculation on my part, but my bet is that a detailed inspection will show there was some defect in the steel or concrete that was the result of something that went wrong during the construction in 1967.

Like I said, this is just speculation, but it is usually the case when a bridge spontaneously collapses. Either that or there was an engineering flaw in the design, but I would figure that would've caused an earlier disaster on this bridge or one of the many similar bridges out there.

The % of GDP that government spending comprises is higher now than when all this infrastructure was built. It's got nothing to do with economic theory, and everything to do with misplaced spending priorities.

A per cent of a rotten economy is meaningless.

When the economy was good the US rebuilt Europe, fought Korea and Nam, built the entire Interstate Highway System, sent men to the moon, gave out student loans at 3%, started the space shuttle.......

Since the adoption of tinkle down the US.......well we....we let the interstate deteriorate (along with every other road and every other infrastructure), we still use the shuttles and have no plans to build an equal replacement (last I heard they were going to build a modified Apollo) student loans are at 8%............. Basically the US has done nothing except go into massive debt and tell people that the stock market has made the rich richer and the middle and bottom squeezed. There is no money to even keep up what was built when the economy was good.

Free Soviets, shut the fuck up. It's been beyond old for a long time now. This wasn't the result of a failure of government because of underfunding, it was the result of poor bridge design and material failure. If you lived in Minnesota you'd know firsthand that there should be no reason for anything to be underfunded in this state given the excessive taxes. Maybe if the DFL didn't insist on growing the budget every session and instead focused on current distribution of funds the state government would be able to more efficiently manage the cash it rakes in hand over fist over hand every year. In this state half of the budget is spent on public education yet we have disapointingly low test scores and standards and there is almost never any improvement. A good chunk of the state's transit budget (for roads and bridges) actually goes to a commuter train system for the Twin Cities called the Light Rail Transit system. A train that few ride. The reason that this state is constantly coming up short on funds is not a result of low taxes, we've got the highest taxes in the Midwest; the reason is the out of control spending of the state legislature every session, usually because the Met Council (a panel of appointed officials who have the power to override local government authority) decides to shove some new civil engineering nightmare down the throats of the suburban communities or just feels like setting large piles of money on fire.

On another note, I was listening Amy's speech today on the radio and I noticed that she said bridges in America shouldn't collapse more than once. Well Mrs. Klobuchar, where in the world is it okay for bridges packed with people to collapse? I honestly liked Keith Ellison's much better.

A per cent of a rotten economy is meaningless.

When the economy was good the US rebuilt Europe, fought Korea and Nam, built the entire Interstate Highway System, sent men to the moon, gave out student loans at 3%, started the space shuttle.......

Since the adoption of tinkle down the US.......well we....we let the interstate deteriorate (along with every other road and every other infrastructure), we still use the shuttles and have no plans to build an equal replacement (last I heard they were going to build a modified Apollo) student loans are at 8%............. Basically the US has done nothing except go into massive debt and tell people that the stock market has made the rich richer and the middle and bottom squeezed. There is no money to even keep up what was built when the economy was good.You need to look at the US's economic numbers. Our economy is larger now than at any point in our history. I can show you our GDP numbers, but you seem like too much of a fool to interpret them if you honestly think our economy is shittier now than it was when we built the Interstate system. (We actually had a recession when we built the Interstate Highway System)

You fail.

A per cent of a rotten economy is meaningless.
The market is higher today than it ever has been, except for last week. Pretty damn good.

When the economy was good the US rebuilt Europe, fought Korea and Nam, built the entire Interstate Highway System, sent men to the moon, gave out student loans at 3%, started the space shuttle.......
The US rebuilt Europe after WW2 when there was huge demand from everyone coming home; Korea, Nam, and the Moon were all done during the Cold War...of 1812. It was very cold in 1812. They had nothing to do with high taxes.

Since the adoption of tinkle down the US.......well we....we let the interstate deteriorate (along with every other road and every other infrastructure), we still use the shuttles and have no plans to build an equal replacement (last I heard they were going to build a modified Apollo) student loans are at 8%............. Basically the US has done nothing except go into massive debt and tell people that the stock market has made the rich richer and the middle and bottom squeezed. There is no money to even keep up what was built when the economy was good.
That span bridge was 40 years old and had no redundancy. The interstate isn't any worse off today than it was when it was built, the only thing that has changed is our standards. NASA had a chance to get a replacement low orbiter, the Delta Clipper but crashed the scale prototype. Incomes and quality of life are both higher today for all people than they were 60 years ago. It's very simple, oppressive taxes damage an economy while lax taxation allows it to do its own thing. Sometimes it's own thing involves slumping or skyrocketting, it all depends on how many investors decide to take get in or out at the same time.

Now get back on the topic of the 35W bridge collapse.

A per cent of a rotten economy is meaningless.

When the economy was good the US rebuilt Europe, fought Korea and Nam, built the entire Interstate Highway System, sent men to the moon, gave out student loans at 3%, started the space shuttle.......

Since the adoption of tinkle down the US.......well we....we let the interstate deteriorate (along with every other road and every other infrastructure), we still use the shuttles and have no plans to build an equal replacement (last I heard they were going to build a modified Apollo) student loans are at 8%............. Basically the US has done nothing except go into massive debt and tell people that the stock market has made the rich richer and the middle and bottom squeezed. There is no money to even keep up what was built when the economy was good.

It has nothing to do with trickle down. And everything to do with the mammoth misallocation of funds by the government and society on stupid feel good shit.

And there is plenty to keep up with what was built, but that would mean spending less on the stupid feel good shit and making a lot of useless manure producing terminally unemployable mouth breathers permanently redundant.

Bottom line. We are a nation of useless retards on the whole who are not fit for purpose. That's why shit falls down. Not because of the Reagan tax cuts.

Just got todays Strib and lo and behold there was nary a peep about the LRT expansion that's costing taxpayers somewhere in the ballpark (also being funded by taxpayer money) of somewhere between seven-hundred-million to nine-hundred-million dollars. With the cost of the new Twins (impossible to stop now), Vikings (proposed and likely to pass), and Gopher stadiums the pile of cash that could have been saved by prioritizing roads and bridges over stadiums and low capacity passenger trains runs well over a billion dollars. Yet only the Twins stadium got a passing mention in todays Strib editorial section. I wonder how many bridges and roads could have been inspected and repaired had the money not been mismanaged. I for one think it is clear that the problem isn't a lack of funds but poor prioritization.

I wonder how many bridges and roads could have been inspected and repaired had the money not been mismanaged. I for one think it is clear that the problem isn't a lack of funds but poor prioritization.

They're really one and the same, though. The government is swimming in cash but prefers to throw it away on bread-and-circuses and foreign adventures rather than the real economic backbone of this country. Without infrastructure, there wouldn't be a United States and we wouldn't be an economic superpower.

Yeah I saw this on CNN just a while ago. Sad.

You know though, this same thing can happen to nearly every bridge on the Miss. if the New Madrid fault releases a large quake, which many experts say may happen with in the next 30 yrs. :eek:

Hey, whatever helps slow the sky rocketing population crisis.

The bridge collapse is largely due to benign neglect. Americans have the idea that things will last forever. Even our democracy. But the sad truth is that all things deteriorate if they are not maintained.
When the bridge was constructed it was built by the lowest bidder, who had to find materials at the lowest cost, who had to pay for labor at its most expensive, because of unionism.
In the end many people suffered: the people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or make that the right place at the wrong time. The people who have lost economically, because river traffic is halted in that area. The good folks who depend on the bridge for a time-saving and fuel saving route to their jobs; or to their homes and families. And the good people of the US gov. Especially those at the NTSB who we depend on to keep transportation safe in America.
Now that there are so many looking after the investigation of the bridge, who is keeping an eye on the airlines. Who want to make the most money by filling airline schedules to over-capacity, skimp on aircraft maintenance, and buy planes from the lowest bidder?