NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=3897
http://www.ethericwarriors.com/main/index.php?page=forums&action=topic&t=906
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

So basically in NC(or at least Asheville) its illegal to desecrate the US or NC flag. A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair. Anyways, they took it down, and the officer then asked to see the couples' I.D.s, as if they were under arrest. They refused and shut the door on him. They say that after that he busted through the glass and opened up the door and came inside and assaulted the male, while the female called 911 for help. More police came and threatened to use tazers on the couple(according to one article). They were both arrested, and are facing over a year in prison. Part of the charges are that they injured a government official. Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?

Scary times we live in.:(

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

I don't know, I liked the East German flag more.

I don't know, I liked the East German flag more.

Fly both with a Chinese and a North Korean flag.

What about flying the Iraqi flag - that would be a nice gesture

What about flying the Iraqi flag - that would be a nice gesture

The Kurdish one more like, theres a cause everyone can support.

Democratic USA! Err, police state ...

Why are cops such mega douche?

Still, this proves what I told other people in those boring police brutality threads: it's not just protesters the cops treat like crap, it's everyone except other cops and senior government twunts.

It reminds of Fascist Japan when the Kempetai(sp) (military police) would roam the streets of Tokyo at night, and anyone not flying the flag outside their house would be deemed 'unpatriotic' and be beaten with a bamboo rod in the street.

What about flying the Iraqi flag - that would be a nice gesture

I had an Iraqi flag in my window for several months. Nobody said a word to me, although it may be because no one knew what it was.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=3897
http://www.ethericwarriors.com/main/index.php?page=forums&action=topic&t=906
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

So basically in NC(or at least Asheville) its illegal to desecrate the US or NC flag. A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair. Anyways, they took it down, and the officer then asked to see the couples' I.D.s, as if they were under arrest. They refused and shut the door on him. They say that after that he busted through the glass and opened up the door and came inside and assaulted the male, while the female called 911 for help. More police came and threatened to use tazers on the couple(according to one article). They were both arrested, and are facing over a year in prison. Part of the charges are that they injured a government official. Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?

Scary times we live in.:(

yeah cause until now I had no idea we were in despair ;)

I had an Iraqi flag in my window for several months. Nobody said a word to me, although it may be because no one knew what it was.

A sentence that makes me smile and a sentence that makes me sigh.

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

well even though it's not really the same, it's like when blacks were tired of undue harassment, nwa made the song fuck the police. It had negative effects when played, and a lot of heads got cracked.....buuut police brutality was different then I guess.( I miss the good ol days :()

Eh. Sounds kinda dubious to me. A link to a reputable source would be cool. ;) Unless your local codes prohibit it, e.g. homeowners' associations, you can probably fly whatever you like.

A sentence that makes me smile and a sentence that makes me sigh.

Although it could also have been the VFW sticker in the window of my car. Who knows.

Per TPC's request, a more neutral source: the local paper (http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118).

I've been having this discussion with some people on another board for a few days now. (Really, I'm surprised it took so long to be posted here.) Anyway, the thread title's not quite accurate. The violation of the flag desecration law was that they had pinned stuff to the flag, not that they were flying it upside down.

From what I'm reading, it sounds like the officer was trying to issue them a notice to appear when they refused to show ID, went back inside and closed the door. In North Carolina you're not required to show ID unless you're being arrested, but since the officer needs that information to write the citation, I'm not sure how that would be handled. Maybe one of the lawyers who post here could explain.

It seems to me though that he shouldn't have been trying to enforce this law at all. It's very obviously in violation of Supreme Court rulings and it shouldn't even be on the books anymore.

I'd like to see what FreedomAndGlory has to say about this.

Per TPC's request, a more neutral source: the local paper (http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118).

Excellent. Thanks. :)

Anyway, the thread title's not quite accurate. The violation of the flag desecration law was that they had pinned stuff to the flag, not that they were flying it upside down.

Nor is the OP.

Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?


Since you (or your sources) left out this:
Scarborough told Mark Kuhn he was going to be issued a citation and asked for identification. Kuhn refused, slammed the door on the deputy’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting Scarborough’s hand, the Sheriff’s Office said....

The Sheriff’s Office said a struggle ensued when Scarborough followed Kuhn back into the house. At that time, Deborah Kuhn also struck Scarborough in the face, authorities said in arrest reports.

So we have two versions of what happened.

It seems to me though that he shouldn't have been trying to enforce this law at all. It's very obviously in violation of Supreme Court rulings and it shouldn't even be on the books anymore.

Indeed, indeed. Although that does not excuse slamming a door on someone's hand or hitting them in the face.

Desecration law?!? Well what happens if you burn a US flag? Or spit on it?

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=3897
http://www.ethericwarriors.com/main/index.php?page=forums&action=topic&t=906
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

So basically in NC(or at least Asheville) its illegal to desecrate the US or NC flag. A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair. Anyways, they took it down, and the officer then asked to see the couples' I.D.s, as if they were under arrest. They refused and shut the door on him. They say that after that he busted through the glass and opened up the door and came inside and assaulted the male, while the female called 911 for help. More police came and threatened to use tazers on the couple(according to one article). They were both arrested, and are facing over a year in prison. Part of the charges are that they injured a government official. Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?

Scary times we live in.:(


The only point that I'll take the police's side on is the assault on the officer. It is perfectly normal and in fact, prudent that when an officer is injured in the process of apprehending a resisting suspect, that is an assault on the officer. I agree with that policy.

In every other way, this sounds like a grotesque abuse of power. *nod*

I'd like to see what FreedomAndGlory has to say about this.

Mind if I give it a shot? Let's see how I do.

The US Flag is a symbol of all that Americans cherish, celebrate and fight for. In that sense, it is not simply a piece of cloth, but a physical representation of the nation. Those that desecrate it are metaphorically attacking their nation, giving succor and comfort to the Islamo-Fascist terrorists and liberals who desire to see all that we hold dear to be annihilated. It is, in fact, a form of treason, and the guilty couple should be imprisoned for life, or perhaps executed by firing squad. Certainly, the police responded appropriately given the level of threat to national security shown by these law-breaking miscreants.

I feel dirty just typing that...

upside down [/B]isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair.

http://www.fotw.net/images/i/it.gif
That's what's nice about being Italian (or French or Belgian or Romenian or from any other country whose flag is upside-down symmetrical...) . We're never in despair. Or maybe always. Anyway, no one can tell for sure.:D

Scary times we live in.:(
Recte, mala tempora currunt.

The only point that I'll take the police's side on is the assault on the officer. It is perfectly normal and in fact, prudent that when an officer is injured in the process of apprehending a resisting suspect, that is an assault on the officer. I agree with that policy.
I assume that he should have arrested the pieces of glass who tried to resist his punch. Also, the police department should sue the glassmaker for lack of a warning on his products stating clearly "IF YOU BREAK THIS GLASS WITH A PUNCH,YOU MIGHT GET HURT.";)

I doubt they could lose if they took this to court.

After they overturn the flag "desecration" charge, all other charges become bullshit because they can't exist without without a reason to arrest them.

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

Then I guess you also oppose the slander and repression of the venezuelan goverment ruled by Hugo Chávez of the university students who also flew the venezuelan flag upside down?

Just for comparison.

Then I guess you also oppose the slander and repression of the venezuelan goverment ruled by Hugo Chávez of the university students who also flew the venezuelan flag upside down?

Just for comparison.

I oppose the endless fictitious garbage which comes from your mouth, Chavez has closed one tv station, RCTV, for supporting the military coup, and the Supreme Court upheld that decision. Their is more freedom of the press under Chavez than in any of the right-wing authoritarian regimes that preceded him, their are about 9 private stations (all are rabidly anti-Chavez - funded originates mostly from the US, and one 1 public one which Chavez occasionally uses for addresses and speeches). Hugo Chavez does not rule anything, he was democratically elected and given a mandate by the people to carry out socialism as policy, just because you don't like this theres no need to cry about it.

I oppose the endless fictitious garbage which comes from your mouth, Chavez has closed one tv station, RCTV, for supporting the military coup, and the Supreme Court upheld that decision. Their is more freedom of the press under Chavez than in any of the right-wing authoritarian regimes that preceded him, their are about 9 private stations (all are rabidly anti-Chavez - funded originates mostly from the US, and one 1 public one which Chavez occasionally uses for addresses and speeches). Hugo Chavez does not rule anything, he was democratically elected and given a mandate by the people to carry out socialism as policy, just because you don't like this theres no need to cry about it.

Nice dodge. Did you answer my question or barely refer to the situation I pointed at?

I am not talking at all about the not renewal of the concession of RCTV, (that is the official denomination, weren't you arguing that RCTV wasn't closed in another thread?)

I am not even talking about freedom of the press in Venezuela.

I am not saying Chávez wasn't democratically elected.

Avoiding to discuss about all the wrong facts that you have highlighted in your response regarding the venezuelan media... Can you please answer what I did ask or not? I do not want a babble about my position, or an ideological stance, I stated a pretty clear question, about a group of university students repressed by the goverment with Hugo Chávez in charge, for turning the venezuelan flag down in the same way as the couple described in the OP of this thread.

If you are not going to answer, just address your failure in knowing what happens in this country, accept your double standard and move on.

snip

lulz

Seriously, in regards to the OP, wtf? Ah, the good old land of the free and all that.

I doubt they could lose if they took this to court.

After they overturn the flag "desecration" charge, all other charges become bullshit because they can't exist without without a reason to arrest them.

it, once again, doesn't work that way.

it, once again, doesn't work that way.
If the charges pin upon the citation for flag desecration.

And are you yet a criminal lawyer?

If the charges pin upon the citation for flag desecration.

And yet the charge of assaulting an officer doesn't now, does it?

Hmmm?

And are you yet a criminal lawyer?

'Course not. But then again I DID go to law school, which is a lot more than can be said about you.

And yet the charge of assaulting an officer doesn't now, does it?

When I posted that I was under the impression the charged of assaulting an officer stemmed from damage received by the officer while they were 'resisting' arrest.

When I posted that I was under the impression the charged of assaulting an officer stemmed from damage received by the officer while they were 'resisting' arrest.

nah, if I walk up to a cop and punch him in the face it's still assaulting an officer, regardless of any arrest.

Although it does raise an interesting question. I admit this is out of my area of expertise, but I wonder. I have yet to hear any example at any time of a successful claim of wrongful imprisonment for being arrested under a law deemed unconstitutional, even though such law would be unconstitutional, theoretically, the moment it was written.

In a lot of ways police are given pretty large discretion when it comes to what they do in good faith. Since it's not the job of the police to craft, design or decide the constitutionality of laws, it is merely their job to enforce the law as written.

Since it's not the job of the police to decide whether a law is unconstitutional or not, one could argue, I presume, that an arrest done by an officer in good faith under a law later deemed unconstitutional was still valid. As such any resisting of that executed in good faith arrest would likewise be valid.

This is a large shot in the dark, I admit I don't really know, but I THINK that's how it would come out.

but remember! the military gave us dirty hippies the right to free speech in the first place! I wonder if he used that bullshit line on them when he was assaulting them?

It reminds of Fascist Japan when the Kempetai(sp) (military police) would roam the streets of Tokyo at night, and anyone not flying the flag outside their house would be deemed 'unpatriotic' and be beaten with a bamboo rod in the street.

May I see proof of this please? I would love to view it.

Let me get this straight...

Burning the flag is okay as it is covered under free speech, but flying it upside down is a crime?

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever!


The U.S. become a banana republic more and more with each of those "little" police state incidents.

Don't you all feel a lot safer already? No? Aw...

Remember:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/SafeState.jpg

I oppose the endless fictitious garbage which comes from your mouth, Chavez has closed one tv station, RCTV, for supporting the military coup, and the Supreme Court upheld that decision. Their is more freedom of the press under Chavez than in any of the right-wing authoritarian regimes that preceded him, their are about 9 private stations (all are rabidly anti-Chavez - funded originates mostly from the US, and one 1 public one which Chavez occasionally uses for addresses and speeches). Hugo Chavez does not rule anything, he was democratically elected and given a mandate by the people to carry out socialism as policy, just because you don't like this theres no need to cry about it.

*dies of laughter*

Thank the Lord you are joining the ADF. They will knock this crap right from your head.

*dies of laughter*

Thank the Lord you are joining the ADF. They will knock this crap right from your head.

So you want a commie with ability to use deadly firearms now? :p

So you want a commie with ability to use deadly firearms now? :p

LOL!! Nah. The military will knock his ideas of communism right out of his head.

*dies of laughter*

Thank the Lord you are joining the ADF. They will knock this crap right from your head.
I'm glad the military allows people to think what they want as opposed to damned fascist Venezuela where they cut off people's opinions they don't like... oh wait...

I'm glad the military allows people to think what they want as opposed to damned fascist Venezuela where they cut off people's opinions they don't like... oh wait...

We all know that communism is evil and the military will prove to him that it is evil.

*dies of laughter*

Thank the Lord you are joining the ADF. They will knock this crap right from your head.

I still want him to address my point...

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

Call a company that puts up flags. Surely looking in the phone directory and dialing is simple enough.

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

Until all the idiots in your neighborhood called the police and vandalized your house.

Desecration law?!? Well what happens if you burn a US flag? Or spit on it?

Burning a flag is the proper way, in the US flag code, to dispose of it.

Burning a flag is the proper way, in the US flag code, to dispose of it.

That's odd, that happens to a lot to US flags in some parts of the Middle East. I guess they know how dispose of US flags legally.

he was democratically elected and given a mandate by the people ...just because you don't like this theres no need to cry about it.

Amazing about how when this is said of Bush, people foam at the mouth.

That's odd, that happens to a lot to US flags in some parts of the Middle East. I guess they know how dispose of US flags legally.

Regardless, look it up. It's there.

Amazing about how when this is said of Bush, people foam at the mouth.

Not trying to defend the Bush administration, but that's my point regarding the Andaras Prime's double standard.

Not trying to defend the Bush administration, but that's my point regarding the Andaras Prime's double standard.

You'd have a hard time finding me defending Bush or his administration as well.
I just find the PRECISE WORDING justifying Bush's actions being used to defend Chavez as hilarious.

We all know that communism is evil and the military will prove to him that it is evil.

....

Riiiiight.

Amazing about how when this is said of Bush, people foam at the mouth.

He didn't win the popular vote the first go round.

Not trying to defend the Bush administration, but that's my point regarding the Andaras Prime's double standard.
Then I hope you people have a better stage to stand on because that one is rotting.

He didn't win the popular vote the first go round.


Then I hope you people have a better stage to stand on because that one is rotting.

And what public television stations did Bush shut down?

........

I'll wait.

And what public television stations did Bush shut down?
Irrelevant.
What does that have to do with the democratic election results?
...
I'll wait.

What does that have to do with a republic which uses the electoral college to decide which fraud's in office?

...

I'll wait.

What does that have to do with a republic which uses the electoral college to decide which fraud's in office?

...

I'll wait.
You quoted him in making the point that people supported Chavez being democratically elected then fumed when people pointed out Bush was as well.
I corrected you in that Bush wasn't democratically elected the first time. You then proceeded to question me about what tv stations Bush had shut down.

What does shutting down tv stations have to do with democratic election results?

Sooo confusing. I'm not sure what TPH and Kat are arguing about at this point.

I still want him to address my point...

He won't.

He won't.

Or rather, he'll just say something along the lines of "We can't trust anything you say, you went to University."

Then I hope you people have a better stage to stand on because that one is rotting.

My stage, or point, is why is nothing wrong with turning american flags upside down, but it is wrong to do it with the venezuelan flag. According to Andaras, it is ok to punish the people involved in certain cases, and in others it isn't.

He has dodged my point so far, although.

Or rather, he'll just say something along the lines of "We can't trust anything you say, you went to University."

and by extension of going to a university, an elitist.

it would own.

No. No it wouldn't. It would be pretty fucking lame and sick, actually.

No. No it wouldn't. It would be pretty fucking lame and sick, actually.

Let the little commie think what he wants. After all, in a free country he can.

Could we get another source? Etheric Warriors, and blacklisted news aren't reliable to me...

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

I have one in my room… does that count?

Let the little commie think what he wants. After all, in a free country he can.

Win! :D

Still, this proves what I told other people in those boring police brutality threads: it's not just protesters the cops treat like crap, it's everyone except other cops and senior government twunts.

Anyone that they're not taking money from...which is probably just about everybody anyway.

Injuring a government official? He committed breaking-and-entering and assault, too bad he didn't get shot.

Could we get another source? Etheric Warriors, and blacklisted news aren't reliable to me...

Read, its already been provided.

Let the little commie think what he wants. After all, in a free country he can.

Coming from the person supporting and touting military suppression of free thought.

So you want a commie with ability to use deadly firearms now? :p

Ha, well I had no problems getting the Irish Army to teach me, and I retained my commie views! :sniper:

Besides the obvious free speech issue, there is also a point to be made here about police brutality.

Police officers will tell you that when arresting/pursuing a suspect they will "escalate" force until the person is subdued and captured. Therefore, assuming this counts as resisting arrest (a somewhat dubious claim in the first place, but let's run with it), apologists for the police will insist that the cop's behavior was appropriate: the two should have taken the citation, after all, and let the courts handle it.

Now, as a matter of practical wisdom that may be true: the courts should handle this, and if there is but a bare wisp of justice in the system the two would be acquitted--and the law itself thrown out.

Still, that doesn't change the fact that the officer's use of force was, if not out of proportion to the couple's resistance, certainly out of all proportion with the alleged crime. I have no problem with police aggressively taking down criminal suspects accused of violent crimes, serious property crimes, or other major disruptions of civil life.

But... come on. This is absurd. Breaking into a couple's home, using physical force and pepper spray... all for allegedly desecrating the flag?

Obviously this particular officer has... well, "issues." The real tragedy will be if his behavior is nevertheless upheld as in some sense an adequate response to the abstract notion of "resisting arrest."

I'm sure there are people defending him right now.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=3897
http://www.ethericwarriors.com/main/index.php?page=forums&action=topic&t=906
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

So basically in NC(or at least Asheville) its illegal to desecrate the US or NC flag. A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair. Anyways, they took it down, and the officer then asked to see the couples' I.D.s, as if they were under arrest. They refused and shut the door on him. They say that after that he busted through the glass and opened up the door and came inside and assaulted the male, while the female called 911 for help. More police came and threatened to use tazers on the couple(according to one article). They were both arrested, and are facing over a year in prison. Part of the charges are that they injured a government official. Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?

Scary times we live in.:(

Jesus. If they felt like it, they can do it.

Besides the obvious free speech issue, there is also a point to be made here about police brutality.

Police officers will tell you that when arresting/pursuing a suspect they will "escalate" force until the person is subdued and captured. Therefore, assuming this counts as resisting arrest (a somewhat dubious claim in the first place, but let's run with it), apologists for the police will insist that the cop's behavior was appropriate: the two should have taken the citation, after all, and let the courts handle it.

Now, as a matter of practical wisdom that may be true: the courts should handle this, and if there is but a bare wisp of justice in the system the two would be acquitted--and the law itself thrown out.

Still, that doesn't change the fact that the officer's use of force was, if not out of proportion to the couple's resistance, certainly out of all proportion with the alleged crime. I have no problem with police aggressively taking down criminal suspects accused of violent crimes, serious property crimes, or other major disruptions of civil life.

But... come on. This is absurd. Breaking into a couple's home, using physical force and pepper spray... all for allegedly desecrating the flag?

Obviously this particular officer has... well, "issues." The real tragedy will be if his behavior is nevertheless upheld as in some sense an adequate response to the abstract notion of "resisting arrest."

I'm sure there are people defending him right now.
Of course the police's story is different than the couples. According to the second source provided, one page 2 I think, the man slammed his glass door on the police officers hand so hard that the glass shattered and cut his hand.

That is bullshit for a number of reasons.
1) Assuming they have glass "doors" how we do here, they are storm doors and are one a spring or some such that make it really hard to close the door. Main doors do not have a significant amount of glass and I doubt any glass would have shattered when being closed against a person's hand - a non-stationary object that would have more than likely moved with the door.
2) To close a door hard enough to shatter glass on the hand, there would have to have been some sort of pressure differential - like a back door was open. Otherwise even slamming the door wouldn't have done that much damage.

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

*support*

That's ridiculous, although an upsidedown flag is really for a ship in distress...

We all know that communism is evil and the military will prove to him that it is evil.

We all know that the military are thoughtpolice, and you just proved that.

;)

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

You mean it wouldn't own. The People would own. :D

For petes sake, it's a piece of colored cloth, get over it already. I'd fly a Soviet flag over my place if I knew where to get a pole and stuff, it would own.

Yeah, the soviet flag does look pretty cool actually. No denying that.

Yeah, the soviet flag does look pretty cool actually. No denying that.

Not this awesome! (http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/new_malachite_square.jpg)

[/egoistic vanity]

LOL!! Nah. The military will knock his ideas of communism right out of his head.How will the Military an organization that asks a people to give their life for the State, going to knock the idea communism which is state forced altruism out of his head?

That's something I kind of like about the German flag... fly it upside down and the worst that can happen to you is that some people might think you're Belgian :D

That's something I kind of like about the German flag... fly it upside down and the worst that can happen to you is that some people might think you're Belgian :D

What an extremely horrific consequence that might be! :eek:

;)

What an extremely horrific consequence that might be! :eek:

;)

Compared to cops breaking my windows and facing time in jail, I'd rather be mistaken for a Belgian, thank you ;)

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=3897
http://www.ethericwarriors.com/main/index.php?page=forums&action=topic&t=906
http://www.mountainx.com/news/2007/flagged_down_activists_arrested_in_row_over_protest_flag_allege_abuse_by_bu

So basically in NC(or at least Asheville) its illegal to desecrate the US or NC flag. A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair. Anyways, they took it down, and the officer then asked to see the couples' I.D.s, as if they were under arrest. They refused and shut the door on him. They say that after that he busted through the glass and opened up the door and came inside and assaulted the male, while the female called 911 for help. More police came and threatened to use tazers on the couple(according to one article). They were both arrested, and are facing over a year in prison. Part of the charges are that they injured a government official. Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?

Scary times we live in.:(

Yes, these ARE scary times we live in. This country IS in distress, so the flag NEEDS to be flown upside down.

Letting it drag the ground or burning it would be desecration (but even then they should not be thrown in prison for it), but flying it upside down? That's not desecration; that's exercising your First Amendment right of free speech. I personally make a point, whenever I mail something and I use a stamp with the American flag on it, to put the stamp on UPSIDE DOWN, because our nation IS in deep trouble, what with this incident and Bush's domestic wiretapping.

How will the Military an organization that asks a people to give their life for the State, going to knock the idea communism which is state forced altruism out of his head?

The fact that if he opens his mouth in support of communism and denounces capitalism, he is going to be in for a very rough ride and a nice little history lesson.

The fact that if he opens his mouth in support of communism and denounces capitalism, he is going to be in for a very rough ride and a nice little history lesson.
Ah yes, the military giving people lessons in not suppressing people's free thought by suppressing free thought. Genius!

Ah yes, the military giving people lessons in not suppressing people's free thought by suppressing free thought. Genius!

NOt like there is not examples to show why communism is evil and why it is unsuited for civilized people.

NOt like there is not examples to show why communism is evil and why it is unsuited for civilized people.

Not like there arn't any examples why unbridled capitalism is evil and unsuited for civilized people.

The fact that if he opens his mouth in support of communism and denounces capitalism, he is going to be in for a very rough ride and a nice little history lesson.

So you support the idea of the organization designed to protect our most cherished ideals actively supressing an individual's freedom of speech and association?

That says a lot about you corny, it really does.

NOt like there is not examples to show why communism is evil and why it is unsuited for civilized people.

you mean like child labor, slavery, violent suppression of labor unions, and hazardous enviornments that lead to situations like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire)?

Wait...fuck.

... flying a flag upside down is not desecration. As I recall, flying a flag upside-down is a request for aid.

Oh, and I can't be the only one who thought of this, can I?

http://www.availableimages.com/images/previews/Last%20Castle,%20The%20(2001).jpg

That is a bit silly really. Still, with comrade Gordon in charge in the UK, and all the artificial pride he seeks to create, I fear we may be taking the same course.

The fact that if he opens his mouth in support of communism and denounces capitalism, he is going to be in for a very rough ride and a nice little history lesson.

Oddly enough I became interested in social democracy while I was in the Army. Of course, political discussion is often frowned upon unless it's with your close friends behind closed doors. Much of the military tries to take it's apolitical role in society very seriously.

... flying a flag upside down is not desecration. As I recall, flying a flag upside-down is a request for aid.

Oh, and I can't be the only one who thought of this, can I?

http://www.availableimages.com/images/previews/Last%20Castle,%20The%20(2001).jpg

You weren't. But then, I'm a fan of Robert Redford.

We all know that communism is evil and the military will prove to him that it is evil.

You mean the people willing and eager to kill for an abstraction will teach him about the evils of an egalitarian system that has never been tested?

Let's see how well you argue to try and pull THAT one off.

Let the little commie think what he wants. After all, in a free country he can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red_army_soldiers_raising_the_soviet_flag_on_the_roof_of_the_reichstag_berlin_germany.jpg
It will soon be flying over Washington Lancaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red_army_soldiers_raising_the_soviet_flag_on_the_roof_of_the_reichstag_berlin_germany.jpg
It will soon be flying over Washington Lancaster.

Shh! Comrade, we are not ready to reveal ze secret plan yet!!

I find it interesting that there are some who are defending the officer, despite the fact that all the neighbors and witnesses are providing details which confirm the Kuhn's story.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=3897

I find this rather amusing...

Mark and Deborah Kuhn of Asheville, North Carolina made headlines last week when they were arrested for flying an upside down U.S. flag

...

The Kuhn's case is similar in many ways to that of Kelly Rushing, a man from Lyon County Kentucky, who was arrested and charged for handing out videotapes of Ron Paul videos to police officers

...

It also mirrors the case of an Alabama man, who was arrested in 2004 for displaying a sign in his yard that read "Our Courts System is a Joke," under the pretext that it was illegal to criticize the authorities.

God...it's like the South just wants to be the butt of every joke.

...and it's the authorities that are confirming the stereotypes. Pathetic, really.

Scary times we live in.

Indeed...sadly, my sig says it all. :(

I find it interesting that there are some who are defending the officer, despite the fact that all the neighbors and witnesses are providing details which confirm the Kuhn's story.

Indeed. There was one witness who saw it all and was saying that the officer kicked the door 5-6times and then punched through the glass. Sure, it's their neighbour but he must a reliable witness?
Anyway, here in New Zealand it's pretty rare to find people who have flags outside their houses. I've seen it probably less than a dozen times.

Indeed. There was one witness who saw it all and was saying that the officer kicked the door 5-6times and then punched through the glass. Sure, it's their neighbour but he must a reliable witness?
Anyway, here in New Zealand it's pretty rare to find people who have flags outside their houses. I've seen it probably less than a dozen times.

Considering the officer's story about what happened is absurd, I would believe the neighbor's is a reliable witness.

I'm no forensics expert, but surely the injuries from having a hand slammed in a door, and those from punching a pane of glass, are easy to tell apart from each other?

Hand caught in door: straight line of bruising, probably two matching each other on either side of hand.

Hand used to punch hard object: bruised knuckles.

This is reason enough to take up your AK with your friends, and start shooting.
Ave Revolution!

I find this part of the article interesting:




"This is a distress signal, we're not trying to desecrate the flag," Kuhn told Scarborough when he told the couple they were violating a statute. Police claimed the messages attached to the flag were the problem, but the notes merely pointed out that the upside down flag represented a distress signal and a warning that the country was in danger.

Even though Kuhn took the flag down, the officer immediately demanded that the couple show their ID's and when they refused told them to put their hands behind their back and was about to arrest them before the couple shut and locked the door.


So, the couple had something pinned to the flag, as well as having it upside down (whether having something pinned to the flag is desecration or not, I don't know). After the flag was taken down, they refused to show the officer their IDs, then when informed that they were under arrest, resisted by shutting and locking the door. Then the officer got hurt gaining entrance to the home.

While the officer may not be innocent in this debacle, it seems the homeowners aren't either.

This is reason enough to take up your AK with your friends, and start shooting.
Ave Revolution!

Have you considered becoming a hippy? It's not hard.

Instead of "revolution" you have to say "world spiritual awakening" or perhaps "transcendence."
No more nasty, oily AK's. Crystals, brother, that's all you need. They're real cheap, too.

Escapism, you say ??

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/9575/storm004zr3.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Un-AmericansAs indicated by the name, the Un-Americans differed from previous incarnations of Team Canada in that they were anti-American rather than pro-Canadian. As a result of this, the emblem of the stable was not the Canadian flag, but an American flag flown upside down. This upside down flag was emblazoned on their t-shirts.Maybe the cop was just a wrasslin' fan?

Have you considered becoming a hippy? It's not hard.

Instead of "revolution" you have to say "world spiritual awakening" or perhaps "transcendence."
No more nasty, oily AK's. Crystals, brother, that's all you need. They're real cheap, too.

Escapism, you say ??

Na, I'd actually prefer to learn some Spanish and join Chavez's boys, that would be fun, even better if I get some AK action on an RCTV protest, classic.

Na, I'd actually prefer to learn some Spanish and join Chavez's boys, that would be fun, even better if I get some AK action on an RCTV protest, classic.

So you would fire an assault rifle against unarmed protestors. Actually, it is some kind of dream for you.

Classy.

So, the couple had something pinned to the flag,
Supposedly.

After the flag was taken down, they refused to show the officer their IDs,
I doubt the officer has the right to demand people show him their papers in their own home.

then when informed that they were under arrest,
Without doing anything arrestable.

Then the officer got hurt gaining entrance to the home.
It totally feel bad for him. Oh wait, he was trying to arrest them for a non-offense and then broke into their home and lied about it trying to frame them for assault. No, no I don't feel bad at all.

Na, I'd actually prefer to learn some Spanish and join Chavez's boys, that would be fun, even better if I get some AK action on an RCTV protest, classic.

You want to shoot protestors? People protesting the closure of a television station?

There's a little bit of revolutionary still in my withered hide. Yes, I have been grudgingly persuaded that revolution never achieves what the revolutionaries thought it would. Yeah, it usually does more harm than good. Yet a little bit of me refuses to rule it out. Someday, in the unknown future, there may be a revolution I have faith in.

Uh, did I mention that hippies have sex more often? And enjoy it more.

Exhibit 1: Che Guevara. Permanent revolution, cult status. Not a lot a bonkin'. Got killed.
Exhibit 2: Cher. American musician; famous, but minimal talent. Could bonk almost anyone on planet Earth.

[QUOTE

So basically in NC(or at least Asheville) its illegal to desecrate the US or NC flag. A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair. Anyways, they took it down, and the officer then asked to see the couples' I.D.s, as if they were under arrest. They refused and shut the door on him. They say that after that he busted through the glass and opened up the door and came inside and assaulted the male, while the female called 911 for help. More police came and threatened to use tazers on the couple(according to one article). They were both arrested, and are facing over a year in prison. Part of the charges are that they injured a government official. Since when does an officer hurting his hand from busting through glass to break into a house, equal out to the couple using physical action against a government official?

Scary times we live in.:([/QUOTE]

actually its disturbing the peace

flying the flag upside down is an international signal for distress a police officer would then have to respond to it as such taking away from other possible emergencies

but in this case its a overzelous red neck P.O. with a political bent

i feel that i must point out that cher really could NOT bonk almost anyone on planet earth......however i'm sure she would blend in well on Mars

maybe he thought they were illegals?

flag upside down, aversion from producing ID's.

None the less I think that unless he thought they were al qaeda with a biobomb or anthrax inside I think that maybe he was a little extreme.

It's not nice to close doors --- but I do think it is legal without a warrant --- but once you call 911 that situation changes. (oh and they were cited, even though it was an unconstitutional law - and 'required' to produce ID's the premise was a false law though) - it wasn't "friendly" to close the door though. If they would have produced ID in cooperation with the officer and then were charged then it would have potentially ended peacefully - but clearly the National Gaurdsman was trying to enforce and unconstitutional law. - and they uncooperative with providing the information to the court - as they should have did - so that they could correct the issue through civil discourse.


The injury was self inflicted though.. he could have just tried to kick the door down instead of breaking the glass.

At least they weren't tazered.


I think freedom of expression should be totally allowed.

I remember when the American's at like the World Series of Baseball flew the Canadian Flag upside down. - the honour gaurd said - he didn't know what way was up.



http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html



Section 8a. "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

http://www.usa-flag-site.org/forum/american-flag-upside-down-916.html


I think 1 year is redicoulous on this though - I think citizenship classes would be a more fitting rendering - including what they missed in their civics classes.

Raising false public alarm is a form of mischeif.

But reasonably I don't think 1 year for an act that didn't have public effect - other than the police officer..

but if it was a sign of distress and say someone was being held hostage inside.. etc..

but really I think it was just a bad situation - many people probably don't know - something was up maybe but 1 year ---- no way.


http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000008----000-.html


http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

<-- bear in mind though there are no prescribed penalties for breach of the US code.. as far as I am aware - but instead left to other bodies or laws.

HENCE CODE rather than LAW


For North Carolina
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111

from what the story says though - it was a sign of political protest so freedom of speech would be at risk contitutionally - but the sign clearly should not have been mistaken and was a political act - not one threatening public safety.

Supreme law of the US is the United States Constitution, under the Constitution's Supremacy Clause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause


also see
http://www.landmarkcases.org/texas/amend.html
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

Raising false public alarm is a form of mischeif.
I doubt anyone would have noticed a flag flown upside down as being an alarm signal.

I don't really see why flying a flag upside down is such huge issue. surely the police have better things to do with their time than creating a crime where none really existed.

can you be arrested for hanging a crucifix upside down?

I don't really see why flying a flag upside down is such huge issue. surely the police have better things to do with their time than creating a crime where none really existed.

can you be arrested for hanging a crucifix upside down?

Go to Vatican City and try it?

I don't really see why flying a flag upside down is such huge issue. surely the police have better things to do with their time than creating a crime where none really existed.

can you be arrested for hanging a crucifix upside down?

Actually if they were "just" flying it upside down 'I could' see it as an issue - but from the story they clearly were attaching other things to it such as a picture of President Bush and stated why they had it flying upside down - clerarly a political protest - and clearly imo it would be en par to freedom of speech clause protections.

But the flag alone yes - it is a military and generally known signal for people who know flag ettiquette (patriots - hopefully military and anyone who was in boy scouts)

at a distance I could see it that way but on closer inspection of course it would be reveiled it was - so it does depend if it could be seen at a distance without being able to read the reason for the flag being upside down (potentially) I think a torn flag would have been safer than confusing the upside down usage --- but it was a political protest, not criminally minded - IMO.

But I think some level of negligence may have been involved - that is since "they knew" it was a sign of despair --- because they had it written down on the flag - if they also knew it was a distress signal then for anyone that saw it as distress rather than being able to see it was "political" after reading it - may have caused public mischeif -imo and that would be a more suitable charge - and constitutional I think.

A couple had a US flag upside down and was approached by an officer and told they were desecrating it, which as we know flying the flag upside down isn't desecration, its an act of patriotism showing that the country is in despair.

Well, not really. While if this was the case, I would be flying the Polish Flag upside down right now (blame Lech Kaczyński). But in reality, if I were to fly my country's flag up-side down, it would look like we were invaded by the indonesians.

Well, not really. While if this was the case, I would be flying the Polish Flag upside down right now (blame Lech Kaczyński). But in reality, if I were to fly my country's flag up-side down, it would look like we were invaded by the indonesians.

Good point. :p Or Monaco.

Actually if they were "just" flying it upside down 'I could' see it as an issue - but from the story they clearly were attaching other things to it such as a picture of President Bush and stated why they had it flying upside down - clerarly a political protest - and clearly imo it would be en par to freedom of speech clause protections.
I demand to know where it says they are "clearly" attaching anything to it.
But it is obviously political protest.

But the flag alone yes - it is a military and generally known signal for people who know flag ettiquette (patriots - hopefully military and anyone who was in boy scouts)
I would like to point out here that flag etiquette is almost never enforced for a reason.

I demand to know where it says they are "clearly" attaching anything to it.
But it is obviously political protest.


I would like to point out here that flag etiquette is almost never enforced for a reason.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111

the article in my first link states that they pinned signs to it. (that aritcle is about this story)

It's not nice to close doors --- but I do think it is legal without a warrant ---

Not once you're under arrest, then it becomes resisting.

<-- bear in mind though there are no prescribed penalties for breach of the US code.. as far as I am aware - but instead left to other bodies or laws.

HENCE CODE rather than LAW

Wait, what?

No...for example see Title 18

I demand to know where it says they are "clearly" attaching anything to it.

It does say they affixed a note and a picture of pres. Bush to it. Of course, while I don't have the case on hand right now, there was a specific Supreme Court case involving affixing something to a flag. Guess what? It's unconstitutional to have laws against doing so!

I would like to point out here that flag etiquette is almost never enforced for a reason.

Because enforcement would be blatantly unconstitutional and has been declared as such by the Supreme Court in more than one case?

The second they try to enforce it, any law that allows them to do so will be struck down by the courts on an instant appeal that any civil rights group in the country would happily fund.

*Flies upside-down the following flags: Libya, Japan, Switzerland, Austria, Jamaica, Scotland and Laos.*

Then I guess you also oppose the slander and repression of the venezuelan goverment ruled by Hugo Chávez of the university students who also flew the venezuelan flag upside down?Yes.

yes I would oppose any slander-and-oppression by any policeman.
I oppose any slander-and-oppression by any US or Venezuelan policeman.

Supposedly.

In all 3 links to the story in the OP, it was stated that there were signs pinned to the flag.

I doubt the officer has the right to demand people show him their papers in their own home.

An officer has every right to demand a persons ID when they are citing that person for an offense.

Without doing anything arrestable.

Refusing to give ID to an officer when he is writing a citation is cause for arrest. It is considered interfering with an investigation (according to my uncle, who is a police sergeant).


It totally feel bad for him. Oh wait, he was trying to arrest them for a non-offense and then broke into their home and lied about it trying to frame them for assault. No, no I don't feel bad at all.

Whether it was an offense or not is for the court to decide. Refusing to show ID, then resisting arrest, just made things worse for them. As to your assertation that the cop lied about how he was hurt, that is something I hope is investigated as well.

Whether it was an offense or not is for the court to decide. Refusing to show ID, then resisting arrest, just made things worse for them. As to your assertation that the cop lied about how he was hurt, that is something I hope is investigated as well.

What about the part in which they resisted arrest for something that IS NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY A CRIME?

What about the part in which they resisted arrest for something that IS NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY A CRIME?

The N.C. law is on the books. Therefore, the police must enforce it. The couple WOULD have only gotten a citation to appear in court (where they could point out the unconstitutionality of that law), but they decided to refuse to show the officer their IDs (which translates to interferring with a police investigation, which is a crime that is constitutitonal). After the officer informed them that they were under arrest (for the aforementioned refusal to show their IDs), they compounded their problems by resisting (by closing and locking the door).

Oddly enough I became interested in social democracy while I was in the Army. Of course, political discussion is often frowned upon unless it's with your close friends behind closed doors. Much of the military tries to take it's apolitical role in society very seriously.

Social democracy is one thing. Communism is a totally different animal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Red_army_soldiers_raising_the_soviet_flag_on_the_roof_of_the_reichstag_berlin_germany.jpg
It will soon be flying over Washington Lancaster.

Over my dead body and several others who would gladly give their lives to fight off communism.

BTW: it is a red x so I can not see the picture. I guess that says something about it :D

The N.C. law is on the books. Therefore, the police must enforce it. The couple WOULD have only gotten a citation to appear in court (where they could point out the unconstitutionality of that law), but they decided to refuse to show the officer their IDs (which translates to interferring with a police investigation, which is a crime that is constitutitonal). After the officer informed them that they were under arrest (for the aforementioned refusal to show their IDs), they compounded their problems by resisting (by closing and locking the door).

YUP!!

And the case is closed.

Charges dropped in flag desecration case
by Mike McWilliams
updated August 2, 2007 8:12 pm

Asheville – Buncombe County Sheriff Van Duncan today said charges have been dropped against a couple accused of flag desecration and assaulting a deputy last week.

"After consulting with our legal counsel, and after talking with the District Attorney Ron Moore, we decided to ask for voluntary dismissal on all the criminal charges against the Kuhns," Duncan said. "They're being dropped because after reviewing the initial reason why we were at the Kuhn's residence to begin with, it's pretty apparent to us where the Supreme Court stands on this issue (flag desecration) and also it has been dealt with in this state in 1971, and we do not feel like we can successfully prosecute the desecration of the flag statute."

Sounds like an appropriate ending.

Supposedly.

I demand to know where it says they are "clearly" attaching anything to it.

Just to back up the reposting of the article:

Deborah Kuhn said the signs pinned to the flag included an explanation on the meaning of an upside-down flag and asked to “help our country.” One of the signs was a photo of President Bush with “Out Now” written on it, they said.

http://cmsimg.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=B0&Date=20070726&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=70725118&Ref=AR&maxW=313&border=1
credit: John Coutlakis, JCOUTLAKIS@CITIZEN-TIMES.com
Mark and Deborah Kuhn display signs they attached to an American flag flying upside down at their home on Brevard Road.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118

Actually reading the article about the case under discussion will help prevent embarassing yourself like this in the future. ;)

I doubt the officer has the right to demand people show him their papers in their own home.


SOCUS says they can. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57604-2004Jun21.html)

Without doing anything arrestable.

Which was not the case here. The law is on the books, even if it is most likely unconstitutional and rarely enforced.

It totally feel bad for him. Oh wait, he was trying to arrest them for a non-offense and then broke into their home and lied about it trying to frame them for assault. No, no I don't feel bad at all.

Please provide evidence that he lied.

I doubt anyone would have noticed a flag flown upside down as being an alarm signal.

Deborah Kuhn said an Asheville police officer stopped by last week to make sure the couple was OK, after recognizing the upside-down flag as a distress signal.

The N.C. law is on the books. Therefore, the police must enforce it.

Not true at all. Most officers practice enforcement discretion, as is obvious from this previously posted article: http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770726111

This really is scary, but frankly, not something that is all that surprising.

Fantastic name

*does a Matador bow*

I doubt the officer has the right to demand people show him their papers in their own home.


SOCUS says they can. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57604-2004Jun21.html)

Actually that case doesn't say what you think it says. Read your own source more carefully. Hiibel was about a law that required disclosure of ones name "under circumstances which reasonably indicate that the person has committed, is committing or is about to commit a crime".

However it only required disclosure of ones NAME. Not provide identification. It said one can be required to give his name when there was reasonable reasons to believe that individual was engaged in criminal activity.

-snip-

Fantastic name

Yes.

yes I would oppose any slander-and-oppression by any policeman.
I oppose any slander-and-oppression by any US or Venezuelan policeman.

Thank you. That is pretty honest.

An officer has every right to demand a persons ID when they are citing that person for an offense.
They didn't do anything illegal. Therefore he can't cite them and can't arrest them for not giving him ID.

SOCUS says they can. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57604-2004Jun21.html)
The Supreme Court yesterday upheld a state law that makes it a crime to refuse to tell the police one's name when stopped for suspicious behavior


Which was not the case here. The law is on the books, even if it is most likely unconstitutional and rarely enforced.
If it is unconstitutional, it doesn't matter what books it is on. If it goes to trial, their charges will be overturned because they are based on a non-crime. The fact they tried to enforce it at all knowing it would never hold up in court is beyond me.



Please provide evidence that he lied.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770725118
Kuhn refused, slammed the door on the deputy’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting Scarborough’s hand, the Sheriff’s Office said.
Besides the fact the logistics for that are completely absurd, it would be blatantly obvious the different between punching through glass and glass breaking because of a slamming door.

Then stack that with corroborating eye witness statements that the officer busted into the house...

Thank you. That is pretty honest.Gracias a ti.. por todo lo que nos informas, de ese pais tan lindo.


--
interesting,
Its the second time someone calls me honest this week.

Gracias a ti.. por todo lo que nos informas, de ese pais tan lindo.


--
interesting,
Its the second time someone calls me honest this week.

Thank you, for defining my country that way.

You exposed an honest posture. It's natural to call you honest.

It's also my posture. Flags are a piece of cloth, and little else. And people should have the freedom to express dissent in every way, in every place of the globe, even if that means using said pieces of cloth in whatever way they see fit. In my opinion, that policeman was wrong, very wrong.

And the case is closed.link to the article please?

I wonder if they will sue for damages.

http://www.fotw.net/images/i/it.gif
That's what's nice about being Italian (or French or Belgian or Romenian or from any other country whose flag is upside-down symmetrical...) . We're never in despair. Or maybe always. Anyway, no one can tell for sure.:D


Recte, mala tempora currunt.

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6348/flag6ed2.jpg

The Peruvian flag is also upside-down symmetrical.

I wonder if they will sue for damages.

They should sue the cop to the point in which he has to sell his two kidneys (which are doing nothing useful anyways, keeping alive someone like him) to pay.

Then stack that with corroborating eye witness statements that the officer busted into the house...


These corroborating witnesses who agree wityh the deputy?
"The stories of the people who saw the incident and the deputy's stories are very, very close," Duncan said.

(Same source as below.)

I've gotta run. I'll try to deal with the rest of your mass of mistakes later.

link to the article please?

Doh! (>_<)

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007708030306

I wonder if they will sue for damages.