NationStates Jolt Archive

My wife and I went to the emergency room tonight as she seems to have an infection in her gum line (and as it was 8 o' clock Sunday evening even if we could afford a dentist none in our area are open). It took an hour for a doctor to do an exam that lasted less than thirty seconds and hold the following conversation.

Doctor: Yep, looks like you have a mild infection. I'm prescribing Penicillin and you should take ibuprofen for the pain and inflammation.

Kbrook: I've been taking Ibuprofen and it hasn't been helping.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.

This seems to me to be a highly inappropriate response to being told that the medication he had just recommended was doing nothing to alleviate the symptoms he had recommended it for. Having just spent a freakin hour there just to get this much my wife was unwilling to wait more and possibly get this crap from another doctor (or even worse just get the same one back) so we wound up leaving with inadiquit (well I seem to have buggered that spelling past spellchecks capacity to deal . . .) pain medication and PO'ed at the hospital in question.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.

Wow.

My wife and I went to the emergency room tonight as she seems to have an infection in her gum line (and as it was 8 o' clock Sunday evening even if we could afford a dentist none in our area are open). It took an hour for a doctor to do an exam that lasted less than thirty seconds and hold the following conversation.

Doctor: Yep, looks like you have a mild infection. I'm prescribing Penicillin and you should take ibuprofen for the pain and inflammation.

Kbrook: I've been taking Ibuprofen and it hasn't been helping.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.

This seems to me to be a highly inappropriate response to being told that the medication he had just recommended was doing nothing to alleviate the symptoms he had recommended it for. Having just spent a freakin hour there just to get this much my wife was unwilling to wait more and possibly get this crap from another doctor (or even worse just get the same one back) so we wound up leaving with inadiquit (well I seem to have buggered that spelling past spellchecks capacity to deal . . .) pain medication and PO'ed at the hospital in question.

Has she been taking ibuprofen for a while? It can take time for the medicine to really start working.

maybe it'll work in conjuncton with the new meds.

Or he could have taken 45 minutes listening to her complain about a problem he easily diagnosed in the first 30 seconds and over medicated her...

when I was pregnant with my first kid my OB prescribed anti-nausea medication, and I took it and had a bad reaction, so I called the OB and he said "go to the ER now!" so I did

cut to 2 hours later at the ER and no doctor has seen me (but I am in a room finally) my husband finds a doctor and says "she isn't doing well, can you come see her?" and he says "we are waiting on tests" and hubby is like "no, you haven't seen her at all you didn't do any tests yet"

so the doctor comes to see me and takes blood and urine and such.......and comes back 20 minutes later with a diagnosis

what is it?

"you are pregnant"

:headbang:

when my husband mentions that I am heaving and broken out from a medication he says "she is probably having a bad reaction" and discharged me

:upyours:

Inadequate

If the infection is still raging, ibuprofen is going to have a hard time alleviating symptoms by itself. Let the penicillin deal with the infection and the ibuprofen deal with the swelling and pain.

Having said that, I do find doctor's often, not always, but often have quite the condescending attitude.

For example, I go in with a broken finger from playing football and the doctor says 'well that's what happens when you play contact sports', as if I deserved it. I don't need cuddles and a lollipop but I also don't need the blinding obvious stated in some sort of world-weary sigh as though every day the man is plagued by people playing sports, which..hello?...helps to keep me healthy?

For example, I go in with a broken finger from playing football and the doctor says 'well that's what happens when you play contact sports', as if I deserved it. I don't need cuddles and a lollipop but I also don't need the blinding obvious stated in some sort of world-weary sigh as though every day the man is plagued by people playing sports, which..hello?...helps to keep me healthy?

Ah, don't sweat it. The doc is probably just passively venting some prejudice against sports.

when I was pregnant with my first kid my OB prescribed anti-nausea medication, and I took it and had a bad reaction, so I called the OB and he said "go to the ER now!" so I did

cut to 2 hours later at the ER and no doctor has seen me (but I am in a room finally) my husband finds a doctor and says "she isn't doing well, can you come see her?" and he says "we are waiting on tests" and hubby is like "no, you haven't seen her at all you didn't do any tests yet"

so the doctor comes to see me and takes blood and urine and such.......and comes back 20 minutes later with a diagnosis

what is it?

"you are pregnant"

:headbang:

when my husband mentions that I am heaving and broken out from a medication he says "she is probably having a bad reaction" and discharged me

:upyours:
ERs are never a good place to go for any reason, unless you are brought in on a stretcher. And even then I probably wouldn't guarantee you a speedy processing.

Anyone complaining about the slow speed of foreign countries' medical groups have never been to an ER in the US.

My wife and I went to the emergency room tonight as she seems to have an infection in her gum line (and as it was 8 o' clock Sunday evening even if we could afford a dentist none in our area are open). It took an hour for a doctor to do an exam that lasted less than thirty seconds and hold the following conversation.

Doctor: Yep, looks like you have a mild infection. I'm prescribing Penicillin and you should take ibuprofen for the pain and inflammation.

Kbrook: I've been taking Ibuprofen and it hasn't been helping.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.

This seems to me to be a highly inappropriate response to being told that the medication he had just recommended was doing nothing to alleviate the symptoms he had recommended it for. Having just spent a freakin hour there just to get this much my wife was unwilling to wait more and possibly get this crap from another doctor (or even worse just get the same one back) so we wound up leaving with inadiquit (well I seem to have buggered that spelling past spellchecks capacity to deal . . .) pain medication and PO'ed at the hospital in question.
Ibuprofen isn't gonna do squat until you start taking the Penicillin.

Inadequate

If the infection is still raging, ibuprofen is going to have a hard time alleviating symptoms by itself. Let the penicillin deal with the infection and the ibuprofen deal with the swelling and pain.

Having said that, I do find doctor's often, not always, but often have quite the condescending attitude.

For example, I go in with a broken finger from playing football and the doctor says 'well that's what happens when you play contact sports', as if I deserved it. I don't need cuddles and a lollipop but I also don't need the blinding obvious stated in some sort of world-weary sigh as though every day the man is plagued by people playing sports, which..hello?...helps to keep me healthy?


Well they see people everyday with problems like that and much worse, what do you expect? Also, if you play a lot of football it is actually bad for your health (in the long run), so he has a point.

ERs are never a good place to go for any reason, unless you are brought in on a stretcher. And even then I probably wouldn't guarantee you a speedy processing.
when my doctor tells me to go to the Emergency room I go to the emergency room.

I really don't see how playing football (and I mean soccer to any Americans out there) has a detrimental effect over and above the benefits of running around all afternoon.
It is incredibly hard on your knees.

Well they see people everyday with problems like that and much worse, what do you expect?

Frankly I couldn't care less if the doctor saw worse, it's his freakin' job. He doesn't have to be a condescending ass about it.

Also, if you play a lot of football it is actually bad for your health (in the long run), so he has a point.

No, he has no point whatsoever. I really don't see how playing football (and I mean soccer to any Americans out there) has a detrimental effect over and above the benefits of running around all afternoon.

i all most lost my right foot as a kid as doctor who put stitches in did not clean the wound so when the normal doctor had to fix when it blew up he was mad about it

It is incredibly hard on your knees.

You're right, knees weren't designed for running...

After an hour in the ER and another wandering around trying to find an open pharmacy (Meijer has free antibiotics. Guess which pharmacy wasn't open?) I'm feeling somewhat close to human again. If my grandma weren't willing to let me have some of her painkillers, I might have pressed the issue, but I know ER's and clinics are probably flooded with addicts, and are paranoid about opiates. I consider myself lucky to have gotten out with the T3.

That said, everyone there completely ignored my complaints of panic attacks. The nurse asked if I was all right, and offered to send the doctor in 'to talk to me' after I complained that no one addressed the panic, but, again, I didn't figure it was worth it. Dear sweet suffering gods, I hate having to go to any kind of doctor.

In defense of doctors, stay out of the emergency room if you have something minor. You will spend hours there for a simple diagnosis and treatment. Go to your regular family doctor rather then waste the time in an ER.

Seriously, when we are taking in traumas left and right, potential heart attacks, stroke victims.....an ear infection or a broken finger is an absolute joke that actually is a waste of time.

And you'll have to forgive some condescending attitudes (unless it is truly a bad doctor) because of the simple frustration in being overworked and stretched thin. Believe it or not, doctors are also just pawns of a bigger system. When they are told they have to meet X amount of patients in an hour and properly diagnosis and treat those patients, it becomes a bit frustrating.

If that is the problem, you'll have to argue with hospital administrators....that's where the problem lies.

;)

You're right, knees weren't designed for running...Ours aren't. They were designed for climbing trees, with modifications for walking long distances. You might notice that most running animals major leg joint is the ankle because it bends the other way. This design is much better suited for running.

Frankly I couldn't care less if the doctor saw worse, it's his freakin' job. He doesn't have to be a condescending ass about it.



No, he has no point whatsoever. I really don't see how playing football (and I mean soccer to any Americans out there) has a detrimental effect over and above the benefits of running around all afternoon.

Well it's not nice that he had that attitude, but I was just explaining possible reasons.

Sorry about that, I thought you were talking about American football, which is detrimental to your health (in the long run). I don't know what he had against football.

In defense of doctors, stay out of the emergency room if you have something minor. You will spend hours there for a simple diagnosis and treatment. Go to your regular family doctor rather then waste the time in an ER.

Seriously, when we are taking in traumas left and right, potential heart attacks, stroke victims.....an ear infection or a broken finger is an absolute joke that actually is a waste of time.

And you'll have to forgive some condescending attitudes (unless it is truly a bad doctor) because of the simple frustration in being overworked and stretched thin. Believe it or not, doctors are also just pawns of a bigger system. When they are told they have to meet X amount of patients in an hour and properly diagnosis and treat those patients, it becomes a bit frustrating.

If that is the problem, you'll have to argue with hospital administrators....that's where the problem lies.

;)

when we were in the ER when my daughter had a needle in her foot, this lady got really pissed because we got there after her and went in for treatment before her..........her chief complaint? she had a cold.

I know for a fact that my doctor won't even see my kids with a cold unless there is reason to suspect it's something bacterial, because really she can't do anything about it, I accept that. I tried to explain this to the lady, that they can't do anything for a cold.........but she didn't listen. :(

In defense of doctors, stay out of the emergency room if you have something minor. You will spend hours there for a simple diagnosis and treatment. Go to your regular family doctor rather then waste the time in an ER.

Seriously, when we are taking in traumas left and right, potential heart attacks, stroke victims.....an ear infection or a broken finger is an absolute joke that actually is a waste of time.

And you'll have to forgive some condescending attitudes (unless it is truly a bad doctor) because of the simple frustration in being overworked and stretched thin. Believe it or not, doctors are also just pawns of a bigger system. When they are told they have to meet X amount of patients in an hour and properly diagnosis and treat those patients, it becomes a bit frustrating.

If that is the problem, you'll have to argue with hospital administrators....that's where the problem lies.

;)

QFT

I'm lucky my father is retired doctor. He can prescribe stuff for the family. :D

In defense of doctors, stay out of the emergency room if you have something minor. You will spend hours there for a simple diagnosis and treatment. Go to your regular family doctor rather then waste the time in an ER.

Seriously, when we are taking in traumas left and right, potential heart attacks, stroke victims.....an ear infection or a broken finger is an absolute joke that actually is a waste of time.

And you'll have to forgive some condescending attitudes (unless it is truly a bad doctor) because of the simple frustration in being overworked and stretched thin. Believe it or not, doctors are also just pawns of a bigger system. When they are told they have to meet X amount of patients in an hour and properly diagnosis and treat those patients, it becomes a bit frustrating.

If that is the problem, you'll have to argue with hospital administrators....that's where the problem lies.

;)

The last time I was in the emergency room, I had no choice. I had just slipped at work (sprained my knee), and my boss was adamant that I go there (I would have preferred the Urgent Care facility that was between where I slipped and the ER, as I would have gotten there quicker, and gotten out quicker).

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.
It's all the hot sex, dream sequences and crap moralising that doctors have to put up with these days.

Ours aren't. They were designed for climbing trees, with modifications for walking long distances. You might notice that most running animals major leg joint is the ankle because it bends the other way. This design is much better suited for running.

Science (http://www.physorg.com/news95954919.html) disagrees with you but what does science know?

To the other point - contrary to the OP, meaning I should have made clear, I was talking about GPs not ER doctors. I have no experience of ER.

In defense of doctors, stay out of the emergency room if you have something minor. You will spend hours there for a simple diagnosis and treatment. Go to your regular family doctor rather then waste the time in an ER.

Family doctors are for those with money or insurance. We have neither.

[/Quote]And you'll have to forgive some condescending attitudes (unless it is truly a bad doctor) because of the simple frustration in being overworked and stretched thin. [/QUOTE]

No, I don't have to forgive a condescending attitude anymore than I "have to" forgive any other sort of unprofessional behavior.

About 5 or so years ago my brother broke his arm (both bones in the forearm). It looked like it was going to break through the sick at any time. My mother had him in the ER, setting and waiting. Finally a doctor (who was working with another person at the time) walked through the waiting room saw him and told the nurse to get him in to see a doctor asap.


The doctor my brother got to see then ended up being a total ass. He would twist and pull on my brothers arm while he was x-raying it, which I can understand to get him in position for the x-rays, but he told my brother to quit his crying. Not only was my brother about 10 at the time but he ended up needing surgery to put in pins to help fix the bones.

People just have unreasonable expectations. Teeth are just about the most sensitive things in your body. There's no magic trick that'll make them stop hurting once they start. All you can do it take the edge off.

Alcohol (through a straw) and bags of ice on her face/neck may help.

Same goes for that shit about running... Knee joints are far from perfect for rapid shifts in direction, kicking and such. They can't cope with a person's weight without aid from the thigh muscles, so when you put yourself in situations where that sometimes happens, you'll sometimes get injuries. No big mystery there.

Family doctors are for those with money or insurance. We have neither.

And you'll have to forgive some condescending attitudes (unless it is truly a bad doctor) because of the simple frustration in being overworked and stretched thin. [/QUOTE]

No, I don't have to forgive a condescending attitude anymore than I "have to" forgive any other sort of unprofessional behavior.[/QUOTE]

Well when you work 10+ hours 5 days a week, 6+ hours on weekends, 335 days in a year, you're going to have some bad days. It doesn't make it right, but you should know that doctors go through a lot to do what they do, which is help people.

People just have unreasonable expectations. Teeth are just about the most sensitive things in your body. There's no magic trick that'll make them stop hurting once they start. All you can do it take the edge off.

It's not unreasonable to expect a little empathy.

Alcohol (through a straw) and bags of ice on her face/neck may help.

You must be a doctor

Same goes for that shit about running... Knee joints are far from perfect for rapid shifts in direction, kicking and such. They can't cope with a person's weight without aid from the thigh muscles, so when you put yourself in situations where that sometimes happens, you'll sometimes get injuries. No big mystery there.

Yes, best to use your knees for sitting on a couch, eating bags of Doritos and watching TV.

when my doctor tells me to go to the Emergency room I go to the emergency room.

:confused:

You're right, knees weren't designed for running...

In fact they weren't designed at all.

Science (http://www.physorg.com/news95954919.html) disagrees with you but what does science know?

Hmmm... can you point out where that article says human knees are well evolved for running? After reading through it twice, I didn't see anything at all about knees.

ERs are never a good place to go for any reason, unless you are brought in on a stretcher. And even then I probably wouldn't guarantee you a speedy processing.

It's my understanding that shortness of breath is the key to quick treatement. Whenever my grandparents had to go to ER and complained of shortness of breath, they'd be taken to a doctor straight away while everyone else in the room was ignored.

If you do have to go in on a stretcher, tell the paramedics you're short of breath, just in case. :D

:confused:

In fact they weren't designed at all.

Yes, this is true - it's a formality of language and although I know there are creationists here, please allow a little leeway, yours is a pedantic post.

Hmmm... can you point out where that article says human knees are well evolved for running? After reading through it twice, I didn't see anything at all about knees.

You're right, the article broadly describes running - I will need to go search for a cite but, for now, human knee joints and therefore cartilage are overly wide, allowing for the spread of pressure - the knee is also the largest joint in the body, due to the weight it needs to carry for bipedalism. This allows us to run as opposed to just walk or to climb trees for example. Our knees help us run as opposed to not being suitable for running.

The point is that for anyone to say playing sports is detrimental to your health is being obtuse, to say humans aren't 'designed' for running is wrong.

However, I owe a cite.

Science (http://www.physorg.com/news95954919.html) disagrees with you but what does science know.

It's called kinesiology, Barringtonia, and it's beyond the reach of your precious "science".

You're right, the article broadly describes running - I will need to go search for a cite but, for now, human knee joints and therefore cartilage are overly wide, allowing for the spread of pressure - the knee is also the largest joint in the body, due to the weight it needs to carry for bipedalism. This allows us to run as opposed to just walk or to climb trees for example. Our knees help us run as opposed to not being suitable for running.

The point is that for anyone to say playing sports is detrimental to your health is being obtuse, to say humans aren't 'designed' for running is wrong.

However, I owe a cite.

Thanks. :) I'm inclined to agree with the common wisdom that running is bad for your knees, hence they aren't well evolved for it, but sceptical enough of "common wisdom" in general to believe they might be

when I was pregnant with my first kid my OB prescribed anti-nausea medication, and I took it and had a bad reaction, so I called the OB and he said "go to the ER now!" so I did

cut to 2 hours later at the ER and no doctor has seen me (but I am in a room finally) my husband finds a doctor and says "she isn't doing well, can you come see her?" and he says "we are waiting on tests" and hubby is like "no, you haven't seen her at all you didn't do any tests yet"

so the doctor comes to see me and takes blood and urine and such.......and comes back 20 minutes later with a diagnosis

what is it?

"you are pregnant"

:headbang:

when my husband mentions that I am heaving and broken out from a medication he says "she is probably having a bad reaction" and discharged me

:upyours:

Doctors still seem to have the idea that if a woman is having a problem, it's trivial.

When I was pregnant with my daughter, I told my doctor, in the course of a routine checkup that I was having severe headaches (they were later determined to be migraines) and asked him what could be causing them. His response was, "you have them because you're pregnant." Then he prescribed codeine!

Thanks. :) I'm inclined to agree with the common wisdom that running is bad for your knees, hence they aren't well evolved for it, but sceptical enough of "common wisdom" in general to believe they might be

We're getting into degrees of description - absolutely, running causes greater wear and tear on the knees much as any action causes wear and tear. Yet the knee has partly evolved the way it has in homo sapiens with traits that enable us run, generally over long distances. It's not that running is contrary to the knees' purpose and I doubt a doctor would say 'don't run, it's bad for your knees' unless you had specifically bad knees.

However, admittedly light searching, hasn't resulted in a specific document on the evolution of the knee per se over and above its relation to bipedalism. The articles that do nearly always refer back to the original article cited.

# Larger (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041123163757.htm) surface areas in the hip, knee and ankle joints, for improved shock absorption during running by spreading out the forces.

Having said that, it did throw up a lot of articles pointing to the knee as an example of irreducible complexity - the supposed killer for Darwinism - which I hadn't heard before. In fact, creationists have really flooded the Internet lately with articles of this ilk - type in anything in relation to 'evolution' and woah!

Yet I digress :)

<snip> irreducible complexity - the supposed killer for Darwinism - <more snip>

Meh. Irreducible complexity doesn't really apply towards evolution. Doubters have come up with "irreducible" example such as the eye and Eukaryotic flagella (I think?) before. These organs are irreducible in the sense that removing any part causes the entire organ to fail… for its modern purpose. What kills that argument is that the organ remains useful for other things, (in the flagellum's case, as an attack mechanism), which in some cases still exist in other organisms.

Oh great, now you've made me digress too. ;)

Meh. Irreducible complexity doesn't really apply towards evolution. Doubters have come up with "irreducible" example such as the eye and Eukaryotic flagella (I think?) before. These organs are irreducible in the sense that removing any part causes the entire organ to fail… for its modern purpose. What kills that argument is that the organ remains useful for other things, (in the flagellum's case, as an attack mechanism), which in some cases still exist in other organisms.

Oh great, now you've made me digress too. ;)

It's almost fundamental to evolution:

If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.
--Charles Darwin, in The Origin of Species

The eye and e.f. have been shown to be reducible.

Yet really, we digress from the point; that doctors are unfeeling bastards.

That they are.

I wonder if it's because most doctors are still male - female doctors tend to show more empathy. Tis only a wonder.

The eye and e.f. have been shown to be reducible.

Perhaps removing part of the knee would result in our ability to see through time… don't rule things out. :p (Besides, how would a creator come up with all this neat stuff?)

On the subject of doctors: my doctor was far from unfeeling. His feelings were just a bit more… squeamish?
"I think I have some kind of ear infection."
"Eewwwww…"

:D Best doctor ever.

It's almost fundamental to evolution:



The eye and e.f. have been shown to be reducible.

Yet really, we digress from the point; that doctors are unfeeling bastards.

That they are.

I wonder if it's because most doctors are still male - female doctors tend to show more empathy. Tis only a wonder.

I really don't know how you find all these mean doctors. I've never really had a doctor that I thought was an unfeeling bastard, in fact, I've liked a lot of my doctors.

Thanks. :) I'm inclined to agree with the common wisdom that running is bad for your knees, hence they aren't well evolved for it, but sceptical enough of "common wisdom" in general to believe they might be

Except that this "wisdom" isn't common. You've demanded posts saying the knee is perfectly suited for running because you believe that they're not. Where's your citation for that ludicrous statement? Now if you say that the human knee isn't suited for sprinting, you'd be more correct, especially with the reverse-joint mechanism in many animals.

I really don't know how you find all these mean doctors. I've never really had a doctor that I thought was an unfeeling bastard, in fact, I've liked a lot of my doctors.

A Short History of Medicine

I have an earache...

2000 B.C. - Here, eat this root.

1000 A.D. - That root is heathen. Here, say this prayer.

1850 A.D. - That prayer is superstition. Here, drink this potion.

1940 A.D. - That potion is snake oil. Here, swallow this pill.

1985 A.D. - That pill is ineffective. Here, take this antibiotic.

2000 A.D. - That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root.

A Short History of Medicine

I have an earache...

2000 B.C. - Here, eat this root.

1000 A.D. - That root is heathen. Here, say this prayer.

1850 A.D. - That prayer is superstition. Here, drink this potion.

1940 A.D. - That potion is snake oil. Here, swallow this pill.

1985 A.D. - That pill is ineffective. Here, take this antibiotic.

2000 A.D. - That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root.

2007 A.D. - Eating the root hurts the Earth. Listen to this music, and then harness the power of positive brainwaves.

A Short History of Medicine

I have an earache...

2000 B.C. - Here, eat this root.

1000 A.D. - That root is heathen. Here, say this prayer.

1850 A.D. - That prayer is superstition. Here, drink this potion.

1940 A.D. - That potion is snake oil. Here, swallow this pill.

1985 A.D. - That pill is ineffective. Here, take this antibiotic.

2000 A.D. - That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root.

Well that's a bit biased.

But I admit, I'm biased in this case as well, I am the offspring of two doctors.

Though really, I think that shows how medicine is constantly evolving and doing better. You can't deny that medicine is a hell of a lot more effective now then it was in the past.

2007 A.D. - Eating the root hurts the Earth. Listen to this music, and then harness the power of positive brainwaves.

Lol.

Did you know that doctor's have a higher suicide rate than dentists?

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

It's because they're miserable.

Then again, I wonder if too much empathy is a bad thing for doctors because...

Even more alarming is the rate of suicide among female doctors. A recent study found that 3.6 percent of white female doctors' deaths were suicides--higher than the rate for male doctors and many times the average for U.S. women (0.5 percent for 1990; source: Frank et al., cited above; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990). Women have entered medicine in huge numbers in recent decades, but progress has come at a price.

So maybe doctors need to be unfeeling to help them through the misery of their day.

Link (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010420.html)

Well that's a bit biased.

But I admit, I'm biased in this case as well, I am the offspring of two doctors.

Though really, I think that shows how medicine is constantly evolving and doing better. You can't deny that medicine is a hell of a lot more effective now then it was in the past.

I recently read a book that made the claim that we're simply speeding up the evolution of viruses and bacteria through modern medicine, making them more virulent because they need to spread quicker to survive.

Basic hygiene has saved more lives than medicine was the claim, including clean water and good waste disposal.

Not that I agree with it, it was just an interesting read.

I totally understand. I have a general distrust for ER doctors...

When I had just turned 18, I came down really ill. My mom, who is an LVN took me to the emergency room on a sunday night because it had gotten to the point she couldn't help me anymore. I was a pretty sick child and was always sick with pneumonia and she thought it might be that because of the symptoms (fluid in lungs, high fever, etc etc).

Well we get in there, and my mom tells the doctor what is up....he examines me for about a minute TOTAL, and diagnoses me with Laryngitis (spelling), gives me some meds and sends me home even to the persistence of my mom telling him the symptoms I had which had little to do with Laryngitis. Thankfully, she takes me next morning to the doctor where I was admitted with a temp of 104 and brinking on 105. They told me had my mom not taken me to the hospital that morning I could have very well died within the next day or so.

Then, to ADD to the ineptness of the ER doctor, I get a bill (remember I had just turned 18) for almost 500 bucks to which I replied with a letter stating if this charge was not dropped and all bills paid, I would be suing the hospital and the doctor for gross negligence and malpractice. Needless to say I got another letter saying my balance was adjusted to zero. I kept the letter...lol.

The one time I get a chance to take someone for all they are worth, and all I want to do is make it right. Damn it all...

Lol.

Did you know that doctor's have a higher suicide rate than dentists?

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

It's because they're miserable.

Then again, I wonder if too much empathy is a bad thing for doctors because...



So maybe doctors need to be unfeeling to help them through the misery of their day.

Link (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010420.html)
I think it's much simpler: doctors can get pills more easily, and are more aware of the working of those pills. Which means that it is easier for them to attempt suicide, and the chance on succes is greater.

Empathy may have something to do with it as well, but to get a better incdication for that you would have to compare them to other professions that require empathy or attract empathic people.

I recently read a book that made the claim that we're simply speeding up the evolution of viruses and bacteria through modern medicine, making them more virulent because they need to spread quicker to survive.

Basic hygiene has saved more lives than medicine was the claim, including clean water and good waste disposal.

Not that I agree with it, it was just an interesting read.

Well good hygiene is extremely important, my parents stressed it a lot. And while some bacteria have grown resistant, others have not, and they have perished. Also, we can treat many diseases that were once lethal, but no longer are, and the amount of new lethal diseases that have popped up do not match. And, if we continue to produce better medicines faster then bacteria and viruses can change, then we will stay ahead(like we are now). The serious problem however is when doctors prescribe a powerful medicine for a minor problem, if bacteria become resistant to our strongest drugs, then we're in trouble. I believe they might do this is because they don't want to make an incorrect diagnosis, but honestly, you don't need to use the bomb when the knife will do.

Hygiene has probably saved more lives than good medicine. Especially when good medicine is expensive or unavailable, like in the third world countries.

Then again, quarantine and strong medication can do wonders for epidemic control. Its hard to tell excatly which is more important but doesn't every extra bit help? We could have BOTH good medicine (and new ones too) and good hygiene... One's free...

That said, I do like the doctors I've seen so far... Never been to an ER though, I never had something serious enough before...

Perhaps those doctors are just pissed that you came to an ER when your problem is not an actual emergency.

ERs are never a good place to go for any reason, unless you are brought in on a stretcher. And even then I probably wouldn't guarantee you a speedy processing.

Anyone complaining about the slow speed of foreign countries' medical groups have never been to an ER in the US.

Depends on where. I've been in a waiting room at Coney Island Hospital for the blindingly obvious (someone had a bit of his cornea gouged out) for five HOURS before they were seen, and about ten minutes in Sarasota for a stingray slash in which (fortunately) the person was not actually poisoned.

Ibuprofen isn't gonna do squat until you start taking the Penicillin.Actually, when you're dealing with teeth and gums it's the other way around.

The Penicillin isn't going to do squat unless you're also taking an anti-inflammatory.

Gum infections are particularly nasty because when the tissue gets inflamed it cuts off circulation to the infection. Hence, antibiotics carried in the blood cannot actually get to their target. You need to take an anti-inflammatory just to give the Penicillin a SHOT at getting in there, and even then it's touch-and-go.

It's not unreasonable to expect a little empathy.Certainly, I meant the expected result of the painkillers, not the doctor.You must be a doctorFar from it. I do have an excessive amount of personal experience with toothaches though.Yes, best to use your knees for sitting on a couch, eating bags of Doritos and watching TV.Heh, you know the world's not black & white, yeh?

I don't think it's deafness so much as they hear tons of people trying to self-diagnose and therefore they tend not to listen.

In my case, I had a hella toothache and took a hydrocodone for it... and immediately had heart palpitations, clammy skin, dizziness, nausea, etc.

When I went to the doctor next and told him, when he tried to prescribe hydrocodone, that I could not take it as I was allergic, he said snidely, "It's not on your chart. How do YOU know you're allergic?"

So I told him the symptoms I'd had, and said, "Gee, Doc, I dunno, that sounds a lot like shock to me, doesn't it?"

He looked like he wanted to swallow his tongue but then admitted, "You shouldn't take that again."


Similarly, my mom had some bad experiences with Lipitor and memory loss, muscle weakness, was forming cataracts and stuff -- she told the doc (a different one) that the symptoms started after he prescribed it, and he told her she was being ridiculous, those weren't the side effects, she was just getting older and should deal with it.

She goes to her Pill Book and.... guess what. Memory loss is a rare but SEVERE side effect, as is forming cataracts. And muscle weakness.

I almost felt sorry for him when she shoved it under his nose and told him he should have researched at the side effects when she told him what was going on rather than dismiss her and say it was all age-related.

when my doctor tells me to go to the Emergency room I go to the emergency room.
Then your doctor should have made arrangements so that you actually would have been seen when you got there.

Then your doctor should have made arrangements so that you actually would have been seen when you got there.

he claimed that he called ahead for me.

he claimed that he called ahead for me.

He probably did. If it's anything like here GPs aren't too well liked by hospital docs

actually, the OP's example is quite fine, as others pointed out. The medication alone won't do much to combat the infection, which is why it was not doing anything.

However now that she has an antibiotic, the OTC meds will help a bit.

So your complaint seems to be that your wife was taking a medication, without a perscription, and it wasn't doing anything, and you're complaining that the doctor told her to continue taking it, but now in conjuncture with the proper perscription?

What exactly is the problem here?

He probably did. If it's anything like here GPs aren't too well liked by hospital docs

I am sure if I were really dying they would have cared more, mostly I was having an allergic reaction and was really scared that it was going to affect my baby.

However now that she has an antibiotic, the OTC meds will help a bit.


It's not the OTC meds that will help. It's the ANTIBIOTIC that will help. If the Motrin isn't doing anything for the pain beforehand..it sure isn't going to do anything for it until it starts clearing up. Which is why a lot of dentists prescribe the Motrin along with a stronger painkiller and antibiotics.

You've demanded posts saying the knee is perfectly suited for running because you believe that they're not.

I absolutely did no such thing, and I will now demand that you either take that back or point out where I did.

Let's review my posts here:

Initially I made a request that Barringtonia point out where the article he posted as evidence at all addressed the question.



Science disagrees with you but what does science know?
Hmmm... can you point out where that article says human knees are well evolved for running? After reading through it twice, I didn't see anything at all about knees.

Then B. acceded that the article he posted did not. And promised a citation for his argument. I thanked him and expressed an opinon that the issue could go either way.

You're right, the article broadly describes running - I will need to go search for a cite but, for now, human knee joints and therefore cartilage are overly wide, allowing for the spread of pressure - the knee is also the largest joint in the body, due to the weight it needs to carry for bipedalism. This allows us to run as opposed to just walk or to climb trees for example. Our knees help us run as opposed to not being suitable for running.

The point is that for anyone to say playing sports is detrimental to your health is being obtuse, to say humans aren't 'designed' for running is wrong.

However, I owe a cite.
Thanks. I'm inclined to agree with the common wisdom that running is bad for your knees, hence they aren't well evolved for it, but sceptical enough of "common wisdom" in general to believe they might be


Where's your citation for that ludicrous statement?

Which of my "ludicrous" "statements" do you want a citation for: that B.'s article did not address knees or that I suspect the issue could go either way?

Now if you say that the human knee isn't suited for sprinting, you'd be more correct, especially with the reverse-joint mechanism in many animals.

Agreed and not in contradiction to anything I've posted.

Now go away, quit putting words in my mouth, and stop beating that strawman. :rolleyes:

It's not the OTC meds that will help. It's the ANTIBIOTIC that will help. If the Motrin isn't doing anything for the pain beforehand..it sure isn't going to do anything for it until it starts clearing up. Which is why a lot of dentists prescribe the Motrin along with a stronger painkiller and antibiotics.

Indeed. Pocket of infection = pain.

I'm not sure why some people don't understand that "better" painkillers aren't always "better".

After my wife's knee surgery, she was told to stay in bed for the first few days - and NOT MOVE.

She was still numb from the surgery (it was done outpatient) and she took this as a license to continue to walk around when she got home.

When the local anesthetic wore off, she was in excruciating pain - and only had a prescription for Vicodan, which did not work. And it didn't work because the doctor wasn't expecting the patient to walk around on a newly cut knee joint.

Even after getting a prescription of something "better" (Dilaudid), it didn't get any "better".

Took a couple of days for the pain to subside.

A year later, when she went in for shoulder surgery, she took the doctor's advice and didn't move for a couple of days after the surgery, other than the immediate physical therapy sessions (which were limited and short). The pain was easily controlled by ibuprofen.

Did you know that doctor's have a higher suicide rate than dentists?
Good. Now I know what fate has in store for me.

Well anyway, as for what the OP said, 'for a while' may be one day, or one week, or what. Many medications won't ease the pain immediately after taking one pill. Also, pain won't be eased if you don't remove the root cause.

However, I have to agree that there are doctors who are indeed heartless, considering that they heal not just cure.

Anyone complaining about the slow speed of foreign countries' medical groups have never been to an ER in the US.
After that, visit an ER in my country. Expect to be turned away if you don't have enough money.

My wife and I went to the emergency room tonight as she seems to have an infection in her gum line (and as it was 8 o' clock Sunday evening even if we could afford a dentist none in our area are open). It took an hour for a doctor to do an exam that lasted less than thirty seconds and hold the following conversation.You don't have the money for a dentist, but you do have the money for the ER?

Doctor: Yep, looks like you have a mild infection. I'm prescribing Penicillin and you should take ibuprofen for the pain and inflammation.

Kbrook: I've been taking Ibuprofen and it hasn't been helping.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.

This seems to me to be a highly inappropriate response to being told that the medication he had just recommended was doing nothing to alleviate the symptoms he had recommended it for. Having just spent a freakin hour there just to get this much my wife was unwilling to wait more and possibly get this crap from another doctor (or even worse just get the same one back) so we wound up leaving with inadiquit (well I seem to have buggered that spelling past spellchecks capacity to deal . . .) pain medication and PO'ed at the hospital in question.
It sounds like you and your wife were expecting the Ibuprofen to be some miracle cure on its own. He said it would help with the pain and swelling, which I can almost promise it did unless your wife somehow is the first known human born without the chemical receptors for the drug. The ibuprofen was only intended to help relive one or two symptoms.
The wait wasn't his fault. She had an easily diagnosed and treated problem, so the fact that he was only in there for 30 seconds is irrelevant. The fact that the ibuprofen didn't "help" (by which, I'm guessing it didn't get rid of the problem) is also irrelevant, as that isn't what the drug was intended to do.
The fact is, for a mild infection, they aren't about to give you an opiate or other strong pain killer. It isn't needed. Yes, infections hurt, and that sucks. She has an antibiotic, it will start working in 3-5 days, and untill then, use the ibuprofen to lessen the pain and swelling.

I don't think it's deafness so much as they hear tons of people trying to self-diagnose and therefore they tend not to listen.

In my case, I had a hella toothache and took a hydrocodone for it... and immediately had heart palpitations, clammy skin, dizziness, nausea, etc.

When I went to the doctor next and told him, when he tried to prescribe hydrocodone, that I could not take it as I was allergic, he said snidely, "It's not on your chart. How do YOU know you're allergic?"

So I told him the symptoms I'd had, and said, "Gee, Doc, I dunno, that sounds a lot like shock to me, doesn't it?"

He looked like he wanted to swallow his tongue but then admitted, "You shouldn't take that again."
I had that happen before...as much as I respect doctors, some seem to think that the chart is the gospel of your life

Similarly, my mom had some bad experiences with Lipitor and memory loss, muscle weakness, was forming cataracts and stuff -- she told the doc (a different one) that the symptoms started after he prescribed it, and he told her she was being ridiculous, those weren't the side effects, she was just getting older and should deal with it.

She goes to her Pill Book and.... guess what. Memory loss is a rare but SEVERE side effect, as is forming cataracts. And muscle weakness.

I almost felt sorry for him when she shoved it under his nose and told him he should have researched at the side effects when she told him what was going on rather than dismiss her and say it was all age-related.
It is definatly good that your mom looked it up, but I will partly defend the doctor here...Lipitor is a very common drug. As with anyone, when you are very familiar with the use of the drug and the common complaints, you can forget the more rare symptoms, or possibly have never known they exist. Often, explaining the side effects falls upon the pharmacist today. Additionally, every Rx you get should come with a drug information sheet that lists the possible side effects.
That all said, the doctor should not have just written it off to old age (although, both things are very common in the elderly), as the end of every side effects section says "If you notice other effects not listed above contact your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist".

Some good advice for everyone on here: It's your body. Educate yourself about what you are putting in to it. Read the drug info sheet provided, or look it up (webmd.com is a great resource). You know what is normal for you better than your doctor. If the doctor doesn't initially listen, make sure you are being very clear in what you are saying and be persistant.

actually, the OP's example is quite fine, as others pointed out. The medication alone won't do much to combat the infection, which is why it was not doing anything.

However now that she has an antibiotic, the OTC meds will help a bit.

So your complaint seems to be that your wife was taking a medication, without a perscription, and it wasn't doing anything, and you're complaining that the doctor told her to continue taking it, but now in conjuncture with the proper perscription?

What exactly is the problem here?

He didn't explain. He was rude. He didn't listen. He apparently didn't give a rat's ass about the panic attacks the pain was causing. Need I go on?

You don't have the money for a dentist, but you do have the money for the ER?

I'm getting on the Medicaid merry go round.

It sounds like you and your wife were expecting the Ibuprofen to be some miracle cure on its own. He said it would help with the pain and swelling, which I can almost promise it did unless your wife somehow is the first known human born without the chemical receptors for the drug. The ibuprofen was only intended to help relive one or two symptoms.
The wait wasn't his fault. She had an easily diagnosed and treated problem, so the fact that he was only in there for 30 seconds is irrelevant. The fact that the ibuprofen didn't "help" (by which, I'm guessing it didn't get rid of the problem) is also irrelevant, as that isn't what the drug was intended to do.
The fact is, for a mild infection, they aren't about to give you an opiate or other strong pain killer. It isn't needed. Yes, infections hurt, and that sucks. She has an antibiotic, it will start working in 3-5 days, and untill then, use the ibuprofen to lessen the pain and swelling.

I'm not a dumbfuck. I know damn well the pain won't go away without addressing the infection. Last I checked, many hospitals had adopted pain management strategies that required them to address pain levels above four or five. Mine was an eight. My pain threshold is very, very high. But when it gets past that threshold, I'm useless. For him to not even ask what my tolerance is for painkillers, or if I had a preference, was rude in the extreme.

T3 is not my preferred painkiler. I like vicodin, because I know how I react to it and the dosage needed to address my pain. It has nothing to do with addiction, and everything to do with knowing my reactions. And, you know, being a raging control freak.

It's not the OTC meds that will help. It's the ANTIBIOTIC that will help. If the Motrin isn't doing anything for the pain beforehand..it sure isn't going to do anything for it until it starts clearing up. Which is why a lot of dentists prescribe the Motrin along with a stronger painkiller and antibiotics.

As the doctor clearly pointed out, ibuprofen is good for inflammation as well. Even if it isn't doing much for the pain (and the dosage would be important to know here - you can generally take at least 800 mg at a time of ibuprofen without fearing adverse affects), it will still be affecting the level of inflammation. Pain is only a single symptom of inflammation.

The doctor may very well have had a poor bedside manner, but there's nothing to suggest that he wasn't listening or did anything medically wrong.

As the doctor clearly pointed out, ibuprofen is good for inflammation as well. Even if it isn't doing much for the pain (and the dosage would be important to know here - you can generally take at least 800 mg at a time of ibuprofen without fearing adverse affects), it will still be affecting the level of inflammation. Pain is only a single symptom of inflammation.

The doctor may very well have had a poor bedside manner, but there's nothing to suggest that he wasn't listening or did anything medically wrong.

If he'd just explained this... Well, I probably would have complained that he treated me like a moron. I'm hard to please that way. But there is no reason for someone working in an ER to have a poor bedside manner. I'm a customer, and it's rude to treat customers like that.

EDIT: And I'm taking 800mg four times a day, and I'm going to add aspirin because of the swelling - I don't like blood thinners, but that should help get the antibiotic to the site faster.

If he'd just explained this... Well, I probably would have complained that he treated me like a moron. I'm hard to please that way. But there is no reason for someone working in an ER to have a poor bedside manner. I'm a customer, and it's rude to treat customers like that.

...So...the doctor didn't actually say anything wrong or ignore you or anything, he just had better ways to use his time, being a doctor in the ER and all?

...So...the doctor didn't actually say anything wrong or ignore you or anything, he just had better ways to use his time, being a doctor in the ER and all?

Are you gargling bong water? He was rude. He was condescending. He didn't ask any questions about my preferences or feelings. He ignored my complaints of panic attacks! I know he had limited time, but it's beyond rude and unprofessional to treat patients like CPR dummies, unable to express an opinion or ask questions.

Or he could have taken 45 minutes listening to her complain about a problem he easily diagnosed in the first 30 seconds and over medicated her...

According to my dad, it's a medical thing. They prescribe meds to everyone and their uncle to give the illusion of helping.

According to my dad, it's a medical thing. They prescribe meds to everyone and their uncle to give the illusion of helping.

Its bad medicine even though it's prevalent

It is definatly good that your mom looked it up, but I will partly defend the doctor here...Lipitor is a very common drug. As with anyone, when you are very familiar with the use of the drug and the common complaints, you can forget the more rare symptoms, or possibly have never known they exist. Often, explaining the side effects falls upon the pharmacist today. Additionally, every Rx you get should come with a drug information sheet that lists the possible side effects.
That all said, the doctor should not have just written it off to old age (although, both things are very common in the elderly), as the end of every side effects section says "If you notice other effects not listed above contact your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist".

Some good advice for everyone on here: It's your body. Educate yourself about what you are putting in to it. Read the drug info sheet provided, or look it up (webmd.com is a great resource). You know what is normal for you better than your doctor. If the doctor doesn't initially listen, make sure you are being very clear in what you are saying and be persistant.

You're kidding, right?
"Doc, since you prescribed this, I've had these symptoms."
"Don't worry your pretty little head about it, it's not related."

That's basically what he said, without pulling his desk reference and looking it up.

That's amazingly lazy, condescending, and bloody stupid.

Its bad medicine even though it's prevalent

Yeah. My dad seems unhelpful as a doctor because he usually says that this too shall pass (and he's right) But he knows when something's really wrong. He once got me to a hospital just in time. (Not actually 'just' but within a good timeframe)

Okay, folks, this is getting tiresome. I am not a moron. I did not expect advil to make the problem go away. I know damn well what an infection feels like, having had more than my share of the damn things. I also know what it takes to treat them, and what my tolerances and reactions are. I didn't go in expecting red carpet treatment or a miracle cure for my pain. I went in expecting to be treated, at a minimum, like a human being. I expected the doctor to consult with me rather than dictate. I expected the doctor to address all of my complaints, rather than the obvious.

I understand that the ER is not the best place to take these kinds of complaints. I really do. But I have no money and no insurance as of yet, and I have not been able to find a doctor in the area who will take uninsured patients. So I have to go clog up the system because I don't have any alternative. this sucks. But it's not an excuse to treat people badly, nor to ignore them and treat them like idiots.

Yeah. My dad seems unhelpful as a doctor because he usually says that this too shall pass (and he's right) But he knows when something's really wrong. He once got me to a hospital just in time. (Not actually 'just' but within a good timeframe)

I'd honestly rather have an over reactive doctor than an under reactive one. It's amazingly frustrating to be told that, frex, your cough will go away, don't worry about it, and then come back a week later, trying to cough up a lung, and be told you have bronchitis. Or that your ankle pain is 'all in your head' despite the fact that it's been swollen for years. Altho I don't want a doc over prescribing antibiotics. One doc in the campus clinic started to explain to me, in two year old sentences, why he wasn't going to give me antibiotics until my throat culture came back. My response, "Well, duh! I wouldn't ask for one unless you knew it was bacterial, no one needs resistant infections," shocked the hell out of him.

One doc in the campus clinic started to explain to me, in two year old sentences, why he wasn't going to give me antibiotics until my throat culture came back.

What's wrong exactly with a doctor explaining something in very very simple terms?

What's wrong exactly with a doctor explaining something in very very simple terms?

It's not so much the terms I object to, it's the tone (should have been more specific...) I think doctors get so used to dealing with people who have no clue what they're talking about that they forget that there are educated people out there, who are biologists or their offspring, who actually follow medicine and understand some of the complexities involved.

For another example, when my mother in law was in the hospital with carcinogenic meningitis (the only time I ever felt sorry for that bitch, that's an evil thing to have). The doc came in while we were there, and explained that they hadn't found any cancer cells in the last spinal tap, but they didn't think she had bacterial or viral meningitis, because her pain would have gone down by then. He said something about waiting for virus test results, and I replied that it must be hard to test for viruses anyway, because you can't just culture a virus, you have to know the antibody you're looking for. He gave me this look, like I'd sprouted two heads or something. Or the neurologist, who came in to explain that they wanted to take a biopsy of her meninges to test for cancer. He explained the process, and when he paused for breath, I asked, "You mean you're going to trepinate her, and you're not sure that you'd even be drilling over the right spot?" That one had the grace to pause for a second, then say that that's essentially what they were proposing. Pat turned that particular procedure down.

It's not so much the terms I object to, it's the tone (should have been more specific...) I think doctors get so used to dealing with people who have no clue what they're talking about that they forget that there are educated people out there, who are biologists or their offspring, who actually follow medicine and understand some of the complexities involved.


They have to do it that way. That's the way they're trained to deal with patients. You start by assuming complete ignorance of a subject and modify your explanation from there to ensure you are completely understood. It's a necessary precaution. Don't take it the wrong way

I'd honestly rather have an over reactive doctor than an under reactive one. It's amazingly frustrating to be told that, frex, your cough will go away, don't worry about it, and then come back a week later, trying to cough up a lung, and be told you have bronchitis. Or that your ankle pain is 'all in your head' despite the fact that it's been swollen for years. Altho I don't want a doc over prescribing antibiotics. One doc in the campus clinic started to explain to me, in two year old sentences, why he wasn't going to give me antibiotics until my throat culture came back. My response, "Well, duh! I wouldn't ask for one unless you knew it was bacterial, no one needs resistant infections," shocked the hell out of him.

Yeah. It's a cultural norm. We expect medication to cure everything.

I knew there was a good reason why I was the only one wearing a black lab coat...

And this is yet another reason why I usually end up in the ER unconscious. Gets you seen pretty damn quick.

Initially I made a request that Barringtonia point out where the article he posted as evidence at all addressed the question.

Then B. acceded that the article he posted did not. And promised a citation for his argument. I thanked him and expressed an opinon that the issue could go either way.

Generally agree, the discussion was utterly civil - however, I'd like to address one aspect as it piques my sensitivities :)

The article did address the question to some extent though not specifically the knee, for which I later added a cite, though admittedly a poor one - I simply have issue with the 'at all' - it smacks of the same overstatement that Intangelon is somewhat guilty of.

And although Intangelon was a little abrasive, his point does remain - to say running is bad for the knees is similar to saying turning on your laptop and running a game is bad for the battery - well yes technically, but you're not utilizing the battery's potential unless you do - it was designed to cope.

Generally agree, the discussion was utterly civil - however, I'd like to address one aspect as it piques my sensitivities :)

The article did address the question to some extent though not specifically the knee, for which I later added a cite, though admittedly a poor one - I simply have issue with the 'at all' - it smacks of the same overstatement that Intangelon is somewhat guilty of.

And although Intangelon was a little abrasive, his point does remain - to say running is bad for the knees is similar to saying turning on your laptop and running a game is bad for the battery - well yes technically, but you're not utilizing the battery's potential unless you do - it was designed to cope.

Yeah, but some activities are a lot harder on the knees than others. The legs, including the knees, were designed specifically for running long distances. Once you add other factors, such as sudden turns, kicking, and in American football, tackling that could potentially permanently cripple a knee, you start seeing some additional wear and tear. The key is to balance the needs of your individual body parts. Once the knees are crippled, your legs are practically useless for walking. Then you start worrying about blood clots. And the pain could, itself, further cripple the body. Maybe not as bad as back problems, such as my sometimes painful scoleosis (I know I misspelled it), but potentially crippling.


As for doctors, you have to try to understand. When you are expected to save lives in a field where mistakes can easily be deadly and you work long hours with the stress that a single mistake could kill your patient and your career, you're going to be under a lot of stress. Doctors don't have time to determine your listening skills. Their job is to make sick and hurt people get better, not feel smarter.

My wife and I went to the emergency room tonight as she seems to have an infection in her gum line (and as it was 8 o' clock Sunday evening even if we could afford a dentist none in our area are open). It took an hour for a doctor to do an exam that lasted less than thirty seconds and hold the following conversation.

Doctor: Yep, looks like you have a mild infection. I'm prescribing Penicillin and you should take ibuprofen for the pain and inflammation.

Kbrook: I've been taking Ibuprofen and it hasn't been helping.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation.

This seems to me to be a highly inappropriate response to being told that the medication he had just recommended was doing nothing to alleviate the symptoms he had recommended it for. Having just spent a freakin hour there just to get this much my wife was unwilling to wait more and possibly get this crap from another doctor (or even worse just get the same one back) so we wound up leaving with inadiquit (well I seem to have buggered that spelling past spellchecks capacity to deal . . .) pain medication and PO'ed at the hospital in question.

KNEEL before your Doctor! :p lol j/k

(*ten-second pause*)

I SAID I WAS JUST KIDDING! STOP KICKING ME!

Seriously, all kidding aside, I know a man who had to go to the hospital a few years ago, and the doctor said to him "Now, about your diabetes..." The man had (and has to this day) never had diabetes, and he called the doctor on it. The man said, "You didn't read my chart; I've NEVER been a diabetic". The man says that then the doctor went to a sink, wahsed his hand as if preparing for a surgery, and left the room.

Some doctors (not all, but definitely some) ARE jerks.

*snip*

Some doctors (not all, but definitely some) ARE jerks.

See this doesn't say much, it's whether doctors are more jerks than any other profession.

I contend that because the nature of the job makes them miserable, whether that's because they consider most patients idiots or whether sickness is simply a miserable experience to go through every day, that they do tend to be jerks.

As someone has said, doctors are in the business of curing whatever ails you, and I'm sure there's a debate that they should be concerned with your well-being overall, and therefore part of their job is to be understanding and nice.

It's the same thing with IT administrators, who are plagued by endless, repetitive questions concerning basic computer issues. I think 1 poster has talked of the simple lying that people undertake in regards to what they've done, what caused the problem in the first place - and I suspect doctors have to deal with the same.

For IT people, I can partly understand, but doctors should damn well be sympathetic to people's health concerns and not be asses about it.

...the nature of the job makes them miserable...

yeah this makes sense. There are also some idiots out there who think they should get treated first because they have some pain somewhere. Idiots can drive you nuts.

IIRC, I've been to the ER on three occasions in my life. The first two times I was having a severe asthma attack that led to hospitalization, so I got in very quick.

The other time I think the wait was about an hour, but it was just some pain that turned out to be nothing, so it wasn't that big a deal, aside from it being late at night.

As the doctor clearly pointed out, ibuprofen is good for inflammation as well. Even if it isn't doing much for the pain (and the dosage would be important to know here - you can generally take at least 800 mg at a time of ibuprofen without fearing adverse affects), it will still be affecting the level of inflammation. Pain is only a single symptom of inflammation.

The doctor may very well have had a poor bedside manner, but there's nothing to suggest that he wasn't listening or did anything medically wrong.

Nor did I say that he did do anything wrong.

The whole point of my post was in regard to the statement that the Motrin will help now with the antibiotic.

You guys keep posting about your bad doctor experiences. Haven't you ever had any good ones? Or is your life just really that miserable? Or maybe it's because the bad experiences are the ones your remember? But seriously, I think that bad doctors are the exception, not the norm. Does anyone disagree with that?

You guys keep posting about your bad doctor experiences. Haven't you ever had any good ones? Or is your life just really that miserable? Or maybe it's because the bad experiences are the ones your remember? But seriously, I think that bad doctors are the exception, not the norm. Does anyone disagree with that?

I used to like the lollipops :)

People will naturally associate doctors with bad stories to compensate for the natural fear of seeing doctors - let's face it, rarely a pleasant experience if only because you're going for the sole reason that something is wrong with you - unless you're pregnant I suppose.

The debate, in my own selfish eyes, is whether doctors tend to be jerks over and above other professions - of course bad doctors are the exception to the norm in the same way you get angry at the post office when a letter arrives late, despite letters arriving on time 90% of the time.

I imagine your parents are wonderful doctors and doctors in general are to be admired - it's just some are jerks and where your health is concerned, you really don't want a jerk.

and where your health is concerned, you really don't want a jerk.

I really couldn't care less about his disposition unless it actually affects my health. I'm mean, sure, if he's such a jackass that he decides to make me run around a bit after shattering my leg, that's an issue. Are we dealing with something like that?

I'll bring a book, there's my pleasantness quota filled.

I really couldn't care less about his disposition unless it actually affects my health. I'm mean, sure, if he's such a jackass that he decides to make me run around a bit after shattering my leg, that's an issue. Are we dealing with something like that?

I'll bring a book, there's my pleasantness quota filled.

No, we're dealing with the fact that when people are sick, they can be emotionally fragile due to concern, and a little sympathy, a little reassurance, is often all they need - and if they don't get that, then BAD doctor, BAD.

Or maybe it's because the bad experiences are the ones your remember?

Pretty much. Or hardly anyone talks about the good ones... doesn't make for good drama..

I used to like the lollipops :)

People will naturally associate doctors with bad stories to compensate for the natural fear of seeing doctors - let's face it, rarely a pleasant experience if only because you're going for the sole reason that something is wrong with you - unless you're pregnant I suppose.

The debate, in my own selfish eyes, are whether doctors tend to be jerks over and above other professions - of course bad doctors are the exception to the norm in the same way you get angry at the post office when a letter arrives late, despite letters arriving on time 90% of the time.

I imagine your parents are wonderful doctors and doctors in general are to be admired - it's just some are jerks and where your health is concerned, you really don't want a jerk.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. Although, I never really fear seeing doctors, you get used to it after I while I suppose. And it's nice to be able to get a good check-up at home too.

But as for doctors being jerks, the philosophy my parents have always preached to me is one of helping others. They(doctors) have to work hard, learn and study far more for then the average person, and they usually do it for the benefit of others. In my mind, being a doctor is one of the most noble professions out there, it's extremely difficult work, but it's for a great cause. Seriously, how many of you guys think you could handle it? The constant studying and keeping up with the latest medicines and practices. The training that goes on for years and years. And doctors go to work just about everyday, for long hours, with peoples lives on the line(not always, but it depends on your field). Is that your dream career?

Basically, as I've said before, I think you guys are letting a few bad doctors spoil your opinions of the whole bunch, but it is good to know that people are keeping up with medicine, as well as asking their doctors questions.

Mo, we're dealing with the fact that when people are sick, they can be emotionally fragile due to concern, and a little sympathy, a little reassurance, is often all they need - and if they don't get that, then BAD doctor, BAD.

Yup..when I delivered my son..I remember the doctor yelling at me that I wasn't pushing good enough. He then walked out telling the nurse to come fetch him when I start pushing right. (sheesh..I had an intrathecal..I couldn't FEEL anything!) And when my son was starting to pop out..the nurse went to fetch him..and he slloowwlly walked back (he was in the middle of watching a basketball game)

Needless to say..BAD DOCTOR! I told everyone that I knew never to go to him.

So..if you want to make money at that profession..you damn well better have a good bedside manner..because it could end up hurting you.

:confused:



In fact they weren't designed at all.

What do you mean they "weren't designed"? God most certainly DID design them. Not for running, but nonetheless they were designed. For kneeling.

KNEEL before God! :D

See this doesn't say much, it's whether doctors are more jerks than any other profession.

I contend that because the nature of the job makes them miserable, whether that's because they consider most patients idiots or whether sickness is simply a miserable experience to go through every day, that they do tend to be jerks.

As someone has said, doctors are in the business of curing whatever ails you, and I'm sure there's a debate that they should be concerned with your well-being overall, and therefore part of their job is to be understanding and nice.

For IT people, I can partly understand, but doctors should damn well be sympathetic to people's health concerns and not be asses about it.

I understand that feeling very well. I realize not everybody is an idiot, but just enough people are that it drives me insane and i BECOME one myself.

You guys keep posting about your bad doctor experiences. Haven't you ever had any good ones? Or is your life just really that miserable? Or maybe it's because the bad experiences are the ones your remember? But seriously, I think that bad doctors are the exception, not the norm. Does anyone disagree with that?I've only had a couple of bad experiences. The point through, I think, is that pissy or uncaring medical personnel is unacceptable, because such behaviour is counter-productive to the well-being of the patients that they're responsible for.

It's part of the job description. If they don't have the temperament to satisfy the patients concerns in a friendly and confidence-inspiring manner, they're in the wrong line of work. You're not fit to be a public school teacher if you hate kids with all your heart either.

I've only had a couple of bad experiences. The point through, I think, is that pissy or uncaring medical personnel is unacceptable, because such behaviour is counter-productive to the well-being of the patients that they're responsible for.

It's part of the job description. If they don't have the temperament to satisfy the patients concerns in a friendly and confidence-inspiring manner, they're in the wrong line of work. You're not fit to be a public school teacher if you hate kids with all your heart either.

Well if you find a doctor you don't like, all you have to do is make sure you don't go to them again. And if they were really bad, you could tell all the people you are close with not to go to them either. You can't fish out all the bad people, it's pretty hard to do, but you can easily avoid them. Also, some people start a job loving it, and over time they kind of lose their zest for it, but I agree, it's no excuse, all doctors should always treat their patients nicely.

What do you mean they "weren't designed"? God most certainly DID design them. Not for running, but nonetheless they were designed. For kneeling.

KNEEL before God! :D

In soviet Russia, knees design God!

Has she been taking ibuprofen for a while? It can take time for the medicine to really start working.

I've got some experience with this, and the problem isn't time it's doctors. most of them are like judges, and think they've heard it all before so you're no different. basically they don't care until it's them or theirs, so they practice cookie cutter medicine. :gundge:

Well they see people everyday with problems like that and much worse, what do you expect? Also, if you play a lot of football it is actually bad for your health (in the long run), so he has a point.

no he's a dick. it's not his place to put you in check, cause realistically thats how he gets paid. and with that rationalle that would be like if he fucked up a surgery and got sued, and then after he lost his lawyer said...well that's what you get when you practice medicine. the doctor, I'm sure would love to hear that from someone he paid to do a job. :mad:

You guys keep posting about your bad doctor experiences. Haven't you ever had any good ones? Or is your life just really that miserable? Or maybe it's because the bad experiences are the ones your remember? But seriously, I think that bad doctors are the exception, not the norm. Does anyone disagree with that?

yes because the more complacent they become, the less they care about treating, vs going through the motions. Just like any other job :(

I really couldn't care less about his disposition unless it actually affects my health. I'm mean, sure, if he's such a jackass that he decides to make me run around a bit after shattering my leg, that's an issue. Are we dealing with something like that?

I'll bring a book, there's my pleasantness quota filled.

bad attitudes cause stress, and stress affects the heart and brain. remember that when a doctor pisses on you, ON YOUR DIME!!!:mad:

Yeah, I know what you're saying. Although, I never really fear seeing doctors, you get used to it after I while I suppose. And it's nice to be able to get a good check-up at home too.

But as for doctors being jerks, the philosophy my parents have always preached to me is one of helping others. They(doctors) have to work hard, learn and study far more for then the average person, and they usually do it for the benefit of others. In my mind, being a doctor is one of the most noble professions out there, it's extremely difficult work, but it's for a great cause. Seriously, how many of you guys think you could handle it? The constant studying and keeping up with the latest medicines and practices. The training that goes on for years and years. And doctors go to work just about everyday, for long hours, with peoples lives on the line(not always, but it depends on your field). Is that your dream career?

Basically, as I've said before, I think you guys are letting a few bad doctors spoil your opinions of the whole bunch, but it is good to know that people are keeping up with medicine, as well as asking their doctors questions.

if they were so concerned then you explain to me how, about 5 years ago a child was sent home from a chicago hospital, where he later that night died from pneumonia, because he didn't have insurance. I can't figure it, can you :confused:

bad attitudes cause stress, and stress affects the heart and brain. remember that when a doctor pisses on you, ON YOUR DIME!!!:mad:

Except, again, the fact I don't care prevents the whole stressing out, getting mad and making a thread on NSG part.

I've got some experience with this, and the problem isn't time it's doctors. most of them are like judges, and think they've heard it all before so you're no different. basically they don't care until it's them or theirs, so they practice cookie cutter medicine. :gundge:

Somone seems not to like doctors...

if they were so concerned then you explain to me how, about 5 years ago a child was sent home from a chicago hospital, where he later that night died from pneumonia, because he didn't have insurance. I can't figure it, can you :confused:

That's horrible, and it's sad that theirs hospitals out there like that. I'm thinking it was a private practice. A private practice is profit driven, so someone being an asshole really doesn't surprise me, but if that was a public hospital then that would be extremely sad. In either case though, it's wrong and horrible. But as for as doctors being concerned, how often does something like this happen? So many people end up sick each day, and go to a hospital. It's rare that you hear about things like this, and I don't think you can deny that.

no he's a dick. it's not his place to put you in check, cause realistically thats how he gets paid. and with that rationalle that would be like if he fucked up a surgery and got sued, and then after he lost his lawyer said...well that's what you get when you practice medicine. the doctor, I'm sure would love to hear that from someone he paid to do a job. :mad:

Well I thought it was originally about American football, so I took back the statement. I don't see why your getting mad at me about that.

That's horrible, and it's sad that theirs hospitals out there like that. I'm thinking it was a private practice. A private practice is profit driven, so someone being an asshole really doesn't surprise me, but if that was a public hospital then that would be extremely sad. In either case though, it's wrong and horrible. But as for as doctors being concerned, how often does something like this happen? So many people end up sick each day, and go to a hospital. It's rare that you hear about things like this, and I don't think you can deny that.

well maybe not across the board, but county hospitals, more times than not give inadequate care, my sister died of a curable form of cancer at 32, because of lackluster care :(

Well I thought it was originally about American football, so I took back the statement. I don't see why your getting mad at me about that.

no no the mad face wasn't toward you, it's that my family is a lot smaller because we grew up poor and had to rely on bad doctors, who acted like they didn't want to be there. that kind of stirred up a little red blood cells. sorry for not being more clear.:)

well maybe not across the board, but county hospitals, more times than not give inadequate care, my sister died of a curable form of cancer at 32, because of lackluster care :(

Well was she diagnosed early?

Somone seems not to like doctors...

my numbers are diminishing, I'm currently beating my head against the wall, trying to get my wifes current doctor to pull his head out of his bedpan and start looking for other things that are causing my wife to lose her motor skills, besides diabetes. I mean it's like I truly believe that if we came in and she had a knife stuck in the top of her head, he would say it's the diabetes, and she just needed to get her blood sugar under control :rolleyes:

Well was she diagnosed early?

yeah AND, the told her at one point it was in remission, and a month later...on my birthday she died. Apparently it got into her lympf nodes and they missed it entirely. go figure:(

yeah AND, the told her at one point it was in remission, and a month later...on my birthday she died. Apparently it got into her lympf nodes and they missed it entirely. go figure:(

That's horrible, I'm sorry for your loss.

my numbers are diminishing, I'm currently beating my head against the wall, trying to get my wifes current doctor to pull his head out of his bedpan and start looking for other things that are causing my wife to lose her motor skills, besides diabetes. I mean it's like I truly believe that if we came in and she had a knife stuck in the top of her head, he would say it's the diabetes, and she just needed to get her blood sugar under control :rolleyes:

Well first of all, if your wife has diabetes and her blood sugar is not under control, then it's very bad. A lot of things can happen from there, although I do believe it takes some time(for all the bad things to start happening). Secondly, if you feel your doctor is not giving a correct diagnosis, you could always go to a different one. Also, since I have some very reliable sources in the medical field, I'll see if they say diabetes can effect your motor skills.

It's weird how being poor makes you something unnecessary in the eyes of so many, especially considering that they make up more than 70 percent of the reason that rich people are rich. :rolleyes:

It's weird how being poor makes you something unnecessary in the eyes of so many, especially considering that they make up more than 70 percent of the reason that rich people are rich. :rolleyes:

???
Explain please

???
Explain please

well for example who buys more replica jerseys or more nike shoes, or go to sporting events etc.

well for example who buys more replica jerseys or more nike shoes, or go to sporting events etc.

Ok, but what did this have to do with anything we were talking about before?

poor people at least the ones I am familiar with spend all of their time trying to to display wealth, rather than really aquiring it. which makes them easy to exploit.

Ok, but what did this have to do with anything we were talking about before?

well as a result they usually don't have proper healthcare and have to depend on substandard treatment.

don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's anyones fault but their own, it's their kids that suffer

I've only had a couple of bad experiences. The point through, I think, is that pissy or uncaring medical personnel is unacceptable, because such behaviour is counter-productive to the well-being of the patients that they're responsible for.

It's part of the job description. If they don't have the temperament to satisfy the patients concerns in a friendly and confidence-inspiring manner, they're in the wrong line of work. You're not fit to be a public school teacher if you hate kids with all your heart either.

no, but you could be barney, or bozo the clown :D

well as a result they usually don't have proper healthcare and have to depend on substandard treatment.

Well I think it really depends on the hospital. My mother works at a hospital in a poorer area, and they treat people whether they can pay or not. But I know that's not the case everywhere.

Sadly, I think it would be accurate to say that sometimes there just aren't enough good people to go around, and that's how we end up with bad doctors. Though really, I think it depends more on the management how those without insurance are treated at a hospital.

Personally though, I think that everyone should be able to go to a hospital and get treated, regardless of whether they have money or not, and I know my parents, who are doctors, agree with that as well.

Well if you find a doctor you don't like, all you have to do is make sure you don't go to them again.I know. Not exactly the point though, is it ;) You can't fish out all the bad people, it's pretty hard to do, but you can easily avoid them.Unfortunately that's not quite true. A GP with assholeish bedside manners is easy to avoid. Staff at a hospital, especially at the ER, isn't.Also, some people start a job loving it, and over time they kind of lose their zest for it, but I agree, it's no excuse, all doctors should always treat their patients nicely.Burning out is a big problem in the health sector in most (all?) first world countries. That, however, does not make pissy medical personnel acceptable. It just means we ought to improve the shitty conditions they work under.

That's horrible, and it's sad that theirs hospitals out there like that. I'm thinking it was a private practice. A private practice is profit driven, so someone being an asshole really doesn't surprise me, but if that was a public hospital then that would be extremely sad. In either case though, it's wrong and horrible. But as for as doctors being concerned, how often does something like this happen? So many people end up sick each day, and go to a hospital. It's rare that you hear about things like this, and I don't think you can deny that.

did you know in several states, they no longer take insurance. it's cash only, I didn't even know that was legal. :eek:

did you know in several states, they no longer take insurance. it's cash only, I didn't even know that was legal. :eek:

Well when doctors value money more then patients, I suppose that happens. The field of medicine however, is not supposed to be like that, ever. Greed should not get in the way of taking care of people.

I have a friend who managed to get seen immediately, at 9pm on a friday night at the emergency room of one of the big 3 hospitals here in Melbourne.
When they arrived the driver was doing about 80kph round the corner, stopped in the ambulance only bay, left the car running, doors open and lights on as they ran into the ER wearing lab coats...

Granted the patient had been in a lab accident where some neuro-toxin had been spilt on his hand and it was known to possibly have some skin/plastic penetration properties. The person in question had been double gloved when the incident happened and it went straight through the gloves.

Moral of the story if you leave the car running and run in waving Material Safety Data Sheets and wearing a lab coat you are almost guaranteed immediate attention. (In the end they were able to prevent contamination, luckily)

my numbers are diminishing, I'm currently beating my head against the wall, trying to get my wifes current doctor to pull his head out of his bedpan and start looking for other things that are causing my wife to lose her motor skills, besides diabetes. I mean it's like I truly believe that if we came in and she had a knife stuck in the top of her head, he would say it's the diabetes, and she just needed to get her blood sugar under control :rolleyes:

What makes you think it isn't the diabetes?

Let me make this clear at the off. I am not a doctor, I am an ex-paramedic turned social worker (my late wife was the doctor in our family) and I used to work for an NHS hospital trust. Doctors are often very busy, and while they can be condescending, usually manage to put the patients safety first. The problem is that patients and friends/relatives usually think that the tiniest thing that has happened must be life threatening and requires a whole host of consultants, surgeons and Greg House. Trust me, they see far worse then you can imagine, and generally know what they are doing. If they tell you to take something do so. In the case mentioned in the very first post, maybe your wife had been taking Ibuprofen with little effect, but in quite a few cases of infection, the Ibu' alone will do very little to help. The combination of an anti-inflammatory and antibiotics will help greatly.

As for the A&E (ER in America) thing is concerned, from experience I can tell you that everywhere is different when it comes to waiting times (although in the UK it is supposed to be sub-4 hours). When you book in the person on reception will take a few questions, and do a quick triage. If you are blue in the face, have blood spurting everywhere or a limb hanging off you will be seen very quickly. If you have a more minor injury you are lower down the list. It is common sense.

yeah AND, the told her at one point it was in remission, and a month later...on my birthday she died. Apparently it got into her lympf nodes and they missed it entirely. go figure:(

I'm sorry for your loss. My wife died of cancer, and it was one of the hardest things to happen. But she was also a doctor, and was still working at her hospital the day before she went into cardiac arrest.
Anyway the point I was going to make is that it is not always easy to find cancer, even in supposedly high-tech hospitals. It is an insidious blemish on our health, and can be an absolute bugger to find.

Oh and one more point, while the NHS might be in a major crisis every other day, it does mean that everyone can get the emergency care they require. When I was in the States, a friend of mine explained to me how it worked in his hospital (a "County" hospital in Mass.). He said that the private hospitals will take an emergency patient just long enough to stabilise them, then will bounce them straight to General, or even just discharge them, if they don't meet the high insurance rates. Call me a Communist if you want, but that seems the wrong way to go about providing healthcare. But I'm sure this is a debate for another thread.

when we were in the ER when my daughter had a needle in her foot,

I got a nail in my knee once.

I got a nail in my knee once.

How do you manage that? :eek:

I got a nail in my knee once.

I had a wire hanger sticking out of my head once, luckily it didn't hit the skull, just that smushy layer of smush just before you get to the skull.

Pretty much. Or hardly anyone talks about the good ones... doesn't make for good drama..

Or that when you get ones who know you have a broken arm (because the bones are clearly deformed) and grab your wrist and twist it to get the x-ray (happened to my mom) they really need mental help or a kick in the nuts.

That's horrible, and it's sad that theirs hospitals out there like that. I'm thinking it was a private practice. A private practice is profit driven, so someone being an asshole really doesn't surprise me, but if that was a public hospital then that would be extremely sad. In either case though, it's wrong and horrible. But as for as doctors being concerned, how often does something like this happen? So many people end up sick each day, and go to a hospital. It's rare that you hear about things like this, and I don't think you can deny that.

Not as rare as we'd hope: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

Well when doctors value money more then patients, I suppose that happens. The field of medicine however, is not supposed to be like that, ever. Greed should not get in the way of taking care of people.

This is, I believe, what the rest of us have been trying to say. :)

Personally my experience of hospitals and doctors has been pretty good. My GP has a great attitude to his patients and the doctors i've met in A&E have reassured me (and ,more often than not, those i've taken there) with a great bedside manner and sensitivity to their patients needs.

I've also heard some very very coarse jokes about patients in staff rooms, lectures, etc but to be honest I don't begrudge them that

Personally my experience of hospitals and doctors has been pretty good. My GP has a great attitude to his patients and the doctors i've met in A&E have reassured me (and ,more often than not, those i've taken there) with a great bedside manner and sensitivity to their patients needs.

I've also heard some very very coarse jokes about patients in staff rooms, lectures, etc but to be honest I don't begrudge them that

oh, my new GP is wonderful, she is intelligent and caring and logical and she even calls to check up on me when she prescribes new medication. I didn't know there were still doctors like her.

oh, my new GP is wonderful, she is intelligent and caring and logical and she even calls to check up on me when she prescribes new medication. I didn't know there were still doctors like her.

My medical school has introduced a new syllabus (my year are the first year using it) that places a heavy emphasis on the patient centred approach. We have communication skills classes twice a week (with simulated patients coming in to help us practice), we visit patients in the community as part of a GP attachment and follow their progress for 3 years to build up a good relationship, we visit patients regularly on the wards by ourselves to take a history and improve our bedside manner. These are only a few examples though. The whole course has been centred on the patient and their experiences in hospital

Honestly I think that the kind of doctor many are describing are on the decrease thanks to measures like this

Doctor: Yep, looks like you have a mild infection. I'm prescribing Penicillin and you should take ibuprofen for the pain and inflammation.

Kbrook: I've been taking Ibuprofen and it hasn't been helping.

Doctor (emphasis mine): That's good. Keep taking that, Ibuprofen is good for inflammation..

In my own experience, Dentists are extremely reluctant to prescribe pain medication. I think it's because they are so used to being completely in control of the treatment that they hate giving you stuff to take away. I have been in the same position (abscess) but did get the dentist to prescribe 800mg Ibuprofen. The pharmacy only had 600mg but I was also told that Ibuprofen and paracetamol combine without side effects. The mixture does work, at least long enough for the anti-biotics and your own immune system to get rid of the infection.

she has my sympathy :(

People will naturally associate doctors with bad stories to compensate for the natural fear of seeing doctors - let's face it, rarely a pleasant experience if only because you're going for the sole reason that something is wrong with you - unless you're pregnant I suppose.

Not really, I've had to go in for some surgery on a painful area. They gave me an IV for the pain and I got in quick. After that I was out like a light.

Doctors still seem to have the idea that if a woman is having a problem, it's trivial.

When I was pregnant with my daughter, I told my doctor, in the course of a routine checkup that I was having severe headaches (they were later determined to be migraines) and asked him what could be causing them. His response was, "you have them because you're pregnant." Then he prescribed codeine!


Migraines here too --- I was told I was too young to be getting them, though my symptoms have been observed since I was a baby, and it's been PROVEN that even infants can suffer from migraine headaches! Now they just say "you're on your period" --- I'm on birth control, which totally negates the period comment! (A withdrawal bleed is hormonally NOTHING like a normal period.) Plus I get them when I'm *gasp* NOT BLEEDING! *grumble* stupid freaking doctors....

One clinician finally understood,though, and gave me a cocktail of Reglan (antihistamine for nausea) and Flexeril (a muscle relaxer/sedative) that knocked me right out for about 4 hours and sent the migraine packing.

In my own experience, Dentists are extremely reluctant to prescribe pain medication. I think it's because they are so used to being completely in control of the treatment that they hate giving you stuff to take away. I have been in the same position (abscess) but did get the dentist to prescribe 800mg Ibuprofen. The pharmacy only had 600mg but I was also told that Ibuprofen and paracetamol combine without side effects. The mixture does work, at least long enough for the anti-biotics and your own immune system to get rid of the infection.

she has my sympathy :(

My dentist hands out Darvocet like freaking candy. Doesn't help that I hate the stuff,though.

The best thing I have had for a migraine is some crazy mixture of ibuprofen, tylenol and caffeine in a Dollar General generic drug. Damned if I could find it again.

The best thing I have had for a migraine is some crazy mixture of ibuprofen, tylenol and caffeine in a Dollar General generic drug. Damned if I could find it again.

Sounds like Excedrine Migraine. It's roughly the same cocktail.

Find a local apothecary...

I got a nail in my knee once.

I had a nail stuck in my foot, but then when I tried to pull it off the tip was still stuck in my bone! And this was on christmas day!

my numbers are diminishing, I'm currently beating my head against the wall, trying to get my wifes current doctor to pull his head out of his bedpan and start looking for other things that are causing my wife to lose her motor skills, besides diabetes. I mean it's like I truly believe that if we came in and she had a knife stuck in the top of her head, he would say it's the diabetes, and she just needed to get her blood sugar under control :rolleyes:

Hey Sess, sorry if you already know, but I verified that having high blood sugar with diabetes (generally for an extended period of time) can decrease a person's motor skills.