NationStates Jolt Archive

A couple months ago Ford reported it was losing on average, the price of a Mustang a minute. GM dazzled its jaded workers in Detroit with a surprisingly and blatantly offensive superbowl commercial featuring a morose a laid off robotic arm. Recently Chrysler was floundering in massive debts and was sold off.
In addition Toyota introduces its new and more huskier Toyota Tundra a popular line of pickup trucks aimed to rival and possibly surpass domestic pickups. Furthermore thousands of diehard biblebelt NASCAR fans were shocked and angered when Toyota became involved in the longtime domestic auto series. Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?

A couple months ago Ford reported it was losing on average, the price of a Mustang a minute. GM dazzled its jaded workers in Detroit with a surprisingly and blatantly offensive superbowl commercial featuring a morose a laid off robotic arm. Recently Chrysler was floundering in massive debts and was sold off.
In addition Toyota introduces its new and more huskier Toyota Tundra a popular line of pickup trucks aimed to rival and possibly surpass domestic pickups. Furthermore thousands of diehard biblebelt NASCAR fans were shocked and angered when Toyota became involved in the longtime domestic auto series. Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?


If we could get the efficiency everyone is pushing for and bring style back to cars, I think we might have a shot. I know I'd become alot more interested in the market.

Eh. I don't remember being offended by the robotic-arm ad. Everything's offensive to someone nowadays, it seems.

Anyway, it seems to me that Ford needs to expand its product line and focus on the foreign market, even if it means moving more production outside the country. They've been successful in Asia, I read recently, and, like Wal-Mart for example, they may want to set up shop there. Economy cars are big in India right now, and luxury is big everywhere. They need to focus on the high and low end, I would think.

Buy as many Chevrolet Suburbans you can possibly house.

Didn't Ford just post profits for the quarter?

Didn't Ford just post profits for the quarter?

Yep.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/26/news/companies/ford_earnings/?postversion=2007072608

And a good chunk of it came from overseas, they say. That seems to be a ripe plum right now.

Chevy has to shed its current image. While it completely deserved it during the 90's, it has begun to turn itself around. Production quality and reliability is starting to increase, and has reached a reasonable level. The bodies are starting to become more stylish and much less cookie-cutter (just look at a picture of a Cavalier and compare it to its replacement the Cobalt). Chevy probably needs to do some internal management cleanup, but I think that applies to all the domestics.

Chrysler has a pretty good public image right now. There is a group that is out and out against American cars, but as far as American cars go, Daimler Chrysler has the best image. However their vehicles are big and expensive. They are expensive to not only purchase, but to drive day to day. Every vehicle they produce is a gas guzzler. They are trying to force another horsepower war on the industry when the consumer wants fuel efficiency. If the did this in the 90's when gas prices where much lower, they would have probably been quite successful.

Ford, it needs a complete overhaul. While Chevy and Dodge have something of value to offer the few people buying from them, Fords have remained worthless. Their vehicles, with the Mustang being the only real exception, leave the lot a piece of shit, then fall apart instantly. They are basically only surviving on their base of loyal-beyond-reason fanboys. Everything they are currently doing now, they should be doing the exact opposite.

They need to get rid of the huge legacy costs that burden their vehicles and cost them huge sums of money, for starters. Secondly, they need to diversify and increase profitability in their car sector, including continuation of the trend towards smaller vehicles that they have focused on in recent years. The company needs to immediately axe badge engineering, increase spending on vehicle design and use aggressive warranties as a way of selling the quality of their products (a tactic which more than saved Kia).

Also, they need to keep working on hybrid of all classes as well as electric and flex-fuel vehicles. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if GM or Ford can build a large SUV that gets 40 miles per gallon, or even better one that requires almost no gasoline they will make more money than humanly possible.

In short: they need to move on from 1998.

What Can Ford or GM do?when they say "Quality is job 1".. they have to mean it.

A couple months ago Ford reported it was losing on average, the price of a Mustang a minute. GM dazzled its jaded workers Detroit with a surprisingly and blatantly offensive superbowl commercial featuring a morose a laid off robotic arm. Recently Chrysler was floundering in massive debts and was sold off.
In addition Toyota introduces its new and more huskier Toyota Tundra a popular line of pickup trucks aimed to rival and possibly surpass domestic pickups. Furthermore thousands of diehard biblebelt NASCAR fans were shocked and angered when Toyota became involved in the longtime domestic auto series. Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?

Find some engineers and executives with imagination. Take a few risks. Remember that Ford rejected the minivan and it saved Chrysler for a while. Also, quality. Give me a car that will go 100,000 with no repairs and 200,000 with no engine or transmission problems. When a car needs warranty work, make sure the dealers do it right away and correctly without hassling the customer. Have a vision of the future rather than the next quarter. It was obvious 20 years ago that energy would be a problem.

I'll think of a few more obvious changes but this should get them started.

Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?
... here's a hint. They gotta change their image.

American cars have an image of being big, fuel inefficent, gas guzzlers.

instead of focusing on their rich history as being an American Car maker, try showing how much their cars improved on gas milage, affordability, and versitility without loss of performance.

If I was buying a car, I won't care about any drop test, or how much crap it can haul, I'd care about fuel efficency, milage and affordability.

Efficiency, quality and style. But, above all, image.

Massive downsizing, strategic alliances with Toyota, Honda and Nissan-Renault and better design. They still look too much like companies that were set up in the Fifties, they're too big and too slow.

And what is it with all these different brands? Someone needs to clear the table and ditch most of them.

And what is it with all these different brands?
It's called "capitalism". It's all the rage these days.

It's called "capitalism". It's all the rage these days.

I believe he's referencing the phenomenon of [for example] having Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo and Jaguar all being produced by one, single company.

It's called "capitalism". It's all the rage these days.
:p
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/25/news/companies/pluggedin_taylor_deadbrands.fortune/index.htm

What I mean to say is that there is no sense to the branding strategies used by US carmakers at home. It must cost horrendous sums to go through the effort to brand one Ford a Lincoln and another a Mercury. I realise that there's a historical reason for it, but surely a few decades are enough to properly integrate after taking over a competitor?

:p
http://money.cnn.com/2007/04/25/news/companies/pluggedin_taylor_deadbrands.fortune/index.htm

What I mean to say is that there is no sense to the branding strategies used by US carmakers at home. It must cost horrendous sums to go through the effort to brand one Ford a Lincoln and another a Mercury. I realise that there's a historical reason for it, but surely a few decades are enough to properly integrate after taking over a competitor?

I thought GM was starting to show some sense when they finally removed the Oldsmobile lineup from the GM brand list, but there have yet to be any further sensible steps in that direction since.

Ford has some really nice autos down in Australia. I read about this really nice Aussie Ford Falcon real nice sports sedan and could possibly compete with the Imprezas and Lancer Evos. Why not sell them here in the US??? Ford needs massive restructuring. Get rid of those old hardliners and get some fresh blood in there. GM has to many bland auto companies. Chevy, Dodge, Cadillac, Saturn, Opel, Saab, and Vauxhall are all GM needs. Get rid of Pontiac! and GMC! I loved Pontiac back during the muscle car era but ever since the dawn of the 80s they have been in a slump. That GTO they made recently was horrible. All they did was plop a massive engine into a bland 2 door coupe. At least try to keep the image of the old GTO's. Now most of there cars besides the Solstice is just bland and the same designs. WTF was that Pontiac Aztec SUV a couple years ago???

The America auto industry is the only auto industry where the sale of SUV and pickups dominate the market. Domestic automakers need to make a drastic shift from these overdone SUV's and pickups to more sporty attractive unique sedans like BMW and Mercedes Benz make. Or like the affordable yet spacious hatchbacks Japan is known for. A sedan can still have a massive engine as in BMW's or MB's but their very efficient due to their weight, good engineering, better aerodynamics. The domestic automakers are losing ground to foreign automakers. After years of sub par products and an obsession of making cars cheaper yet sacrificing reliability, efficiency, and styling.

What to do, What to do.....:fluffle:

Its a monopoly I tells ya!

Back when Henry Ford was still producing Model T's. GM was more or less a collection of individual automakers. Buick, Olds, Cadillac, and Chevy were all independent automakers each making their own styling of car. Perhaps more than a hundred car companies existed during that era. Yet Ford boomed and GM began swallowing up those individual automakers. Decades later competition was virtually between GM and Ford and I don't believe those companies were fierce rivals. Now all we have is these two bloated sameness automakers. There's no uniqueness. GM creates a platform and its virtually used in all its subsidiaries. Don't brand it a Chevy Tahoe when there's a GMC Yukon prowling about! Who do they think we americans are idiots?!?!

I read about this really nice Aussie Ford Falcon real nice sports sedan and could possibly compete with the Imprezas and Lancer Evos. Why not sell them here in the US???
[...]
That GTO they made recently was horrible. All they did was plop a massive engine into a bland 2 door coupe.
You do realise that the Pontiac GTO is a Holden, meaning it's virtually the same thing as the Ford Falcon, right?

That being said, I'm in love with the current HSV's here in Oz. It's not usually the sort of car I go for, but they look and sound the part. And considering that they've got the engine from the Corvette Z06 in there, they're probably decent in a straight line too.

http://www.hsv.com.au/index_eseries.asp

Also, yay, my car at the dyno: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjTicMzhhws

Quit now. They've fallen so far behind because they've refused to give people the efficiency or style that America wants, there's little to no point in continuing to operate.

They seriously need to change their cheap ways!:upyours:

courtesy of a BMW driver

a mustang a minute! how much is that? got to be 27,000 something. I like Cadillac. But I am not a Chrysler fan. They seem to hit jackpot every couple years like with the PT-Cruiser and 300. But the 300 is so ugly

I really like that ME-412 concept kind of like a pre Saleen S7. Come on America needs some superexotics!
The seem to stand more of a chance of surviving the immient implosion of the american auto market. Along with Dodge, Chevrolet, and Cadillac thats if GM doesn't take them down along with them.

They seriously need to change their cheap ways!:upyours:

courtesy of a BMW driver

:D I have some good jokes about BMW drivers

Here's one....

The other day I was cruising along as usual in my BMW coming onto one of my motorways, which was very busy with inferior cars.

First off, I couldn't believe that the volume of traffic DIDN'T slow down for me AT ALL as I came off the entrance ramp! I had to squeeze into a barely big enough gap between two cars in order to get onto my motorway! (The driver of the car behind me did realise his mistake though and honked an apology to me with a long blast of his horn.)

Unbelievably, I had to do the same again before I could get to the BMW lane. (Why do underlings use this lane? Surely everyone knows it is for BMW drivers only?)

Anyway, once I was in the BMW lane and posing along at 110mph enjoying the adulation that the inferior car drivers were giving me, I noticed an inferior car ahead of me which was not only in the BMW lane of my motorway, but was driving at a ridiculous 70 mph!

Naturally, I got to within a foot or so of his rear bumper and flashed my headlights to remind him he shouldn't be in the BMW lane of my motorway and to get out of my way.

Of course, once he realised it was a BMW behind him, he did just that, but I could hardly believe it when he pulled straight back out behind me! He also tried to keep up with me and when he realised I would out-run him, he put on some blue lights in his front grill and urged me to get onto the hard shoulder so that he could congratulate me on my excellent car.

Needless to say, I was eager oblige and when we had stopped, the man gave me a piece of paper confirming what I already knew - that my car goes fast! Apparently he wants everyone to know what a superior car I have, so I had to take my driver's licence to a police station to be sent away to have some points put on! (They're not free points either - they're $20 each and I was only allowed 3.) But the man at the police station said that because I drive a BMW, it won't be much longer before I earn the full 12 points, and then I won't even NEED a driving licence, so they will take it off me! See, now THAT's the sort of respect you get when you buy and drive a BMW.

here's one....


A lawyer opened the door of his BMW 745i, when suddenly a car came along and hit the door, ripping it off completely. When the police arrived at the scene, the lawyer was complaining bitterly about the damage to his precious BMW.
"Officer, look what they've done to my Beeeemer!!!", he whined.

"You lawyers are so materialistic, you make me sick!!!" retorted the officer, "You're so worried about your stupid BMW, that you didn't even notice that your left arm was ripped off!!!"

"Oh my gaaad!....", replied the lawyer, finally noticing the bloody left shoulder where his arm once was, "Where's my Rolex???!!!!!"

Eh. I don't remember being offended by the robotic-arm ad. Everything's offensive to someone nowadays, it seems.

You don't live in a state that has been in a recession since 2001 due to layoffs in the auto industry, do you? Trust me, to people here, it was offensive. And the recession here is only going to get worse before it gets better.

Anyway, what Vetalia, Andaluciae and Neu Leonstein said.

Ford has some really nice autos down in Australia. I read about this really nice Aussie Ford Falcon real nice sports sedan and could possibly compete with the Imprezas and Lancer Evos. Why not sell them here in the US??? Ford needs massive restructuring. Get rid of those old hardliners and get some fresh blood in there. GM has to many bland auto companies. Chevy, Dodge, Cadillac, Saturn, Opel, Saab, and Vauxhall are all GM needs. Get rid of Pontiac! and GMC! I loved Pontiac back during the muscle car era but ever since the dawn of the 80s they have been in a slump. That GTO they made recently was horrible. All they did was plop a massive engine into a bland 2 door coupe. At least try to keep the image of the old GTO's. Now most of there cars besides the Solstice is just bland and the same designs. WTF was that Pontiac Aztec SUV a couple years ago???

The America auto industry is the only auto industry where the sale of SUV and pickups dominate the market. Domestic automakers need to make a drastic shift from these overdone SUV's and pickups to more sporty attractive unique sedans like BMW and Mercedes Benz make. Or like the affordable yet spacious hatchbacks Japan is known for. A sedan can still have a massive engine as in BMW's or MB's but their very efficient due to their weight, good engineering, better aerodynamics. The domestic automakers are losing ground to foreign automakers. After years of sub par products and an obsession of making cars cheaper yet sacrificing reliability, efficiency, and styling.

What to do, What to do.....:fluffle:

Dodge is NOT a GM company. :mad:

Dodge is NOT a GM company. :mad:
Oh, before I forget...when I made the thread about my new car you asked me how big it was. If you click the youtube link I posted above, you'll see.

Oh, before I forget...when I made the thread about my new car you asked me how big it was. If you click the youtube link I posted above, you'll see.

I totally forgot I'd asked you that. Thanks. :)

the best thing any car maker can do now if they want to stay alive as a company is seriously invest in creating and perfecting an alternative fuel powered vehicle. this vehicle no matter what route they choose to go needs:

1. to be just as powerful or more as a car in its same model class is now.
2. affordable.

as long they keep creating these fuel efficient cars with higher price tags they wont catch on too fast.

bring back the Edsel!

They need to get rid of the huge legacy costs that burden their vehicles and cost them huge sums of money, for starters. Universal health care would save them a shitload. Now why aren't they pushing for it?

Secondly, they need to diversify and increase profitability in their car sector, including continuation of the trend towards smaller vehicles that they have focused on in recent years. The company needs to immediately axe badge engineering, increase spending on vehicle design and use aggressive warranties as a way of selling the quality of their products (a tactic which more than saved Kia). Easy to say, harder to do. The big image problem they face, besides the feeling that they're always making yesterday's car tomorrow, is that their vehicles don't last. You don't hear people talking about how their Pontiac never dies, but you hear about how a Toyota will run forever. In initial quality surveys, US cars actually do pretty well--but they don't hold up.

Also, they need to keep working on hybrid of all classes as well as electric and flex-fuel vehicles. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if GM or Ford can build a large SUV that gets 40 miles per gallon, or even better one that requires almost no gasoline they will make more money than humanly possible.

In short: they need to move on from 1998.
Hybrids, perhaps. Flex-fuel I've long thought was a bad idea, at least the way we're doing it in the US, but that's a problem with corn-based ethanol more than anything else, and auto manufacturers don't have much control over that. As far as the forward thinking bit is concerned, you're right, but they'd have to overcome 60-70 years of industry stagnation to do it. I don't have much faith in their ability to do that.

Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?

They could learn to build cars instead of junkheaps. As several people before me have already pointed out.
You live in a capitalist society ? Then do not whine about having competition. Compete or die.

You do realise that the Pontiac GTO is a Holden, meaning it's virtually the same thing as the Ford Falcon, right?

Except Holden is a GM brand. It's the same as a Holden Monaro and Commodore.

Except Holden is a GM brand. It's the same as a Holden Monaro and Commodore.
I know. But really, how different are the Ford Falcon and the Holden Commodore? I've been driven around in both and the answer is: not all that much.

yeah I've heard of Holden.

A couple months ago Ford reported it was losing on average, the price of a Mustang a minute. GM dazzled its jaded workers in Detroit with a surprisingly and blatantly offensive superbowl commercial featuring a morose a laid off robotic arm. Recently Chrysler was floundering in massive debts and was sold off.
In addition Toyota introduces its new and more huskier Toyota Tundra a popular line of pickup trucks aimed to rival and possibly surpass domestic pickups. Furthermore thousands of diehard biblebelt NASCAR fans were shocked and angered when Toyota became involved in the longtime domestic auto series. Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?

They could start building more fuel efficient, higher quality, less expensive cars. :p

A couple months ago Ford reported it was losing on average, the price of a Mustang a minute. GM dazzled its jaded workers in Detroit with a surprisingly and blatantly offensive superbowl commercial featuring a morose a laid off robotic arm. Recently Chrysler was floundering in massive debts and was sold off.
In addition Toyota introduces its new and more huskier Toyota Tundra a popular line of pickup trucks aimed to rival and possibly surpass domestic pickups. Furthermore thousands of diehard biblebelt NASCAR fans were shocked and angered when Toyota became involved in the longtime domestic auto series. Here's the question what can American automakers do to be more competitive than the popular foreign brand?

Two things: Jack and shit. And I hear the jack option crapped out.

The GM and Ford executives need to get their heads out of their asses.

Universal health care would save them a shitload. Now why aren't they pushing for it?

Good question. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the lack of a UHS and/or insurance system is costing our economy billions and making us sicker and less productive than workers in other countries. The free market is only a good solution if the benefits outweigh the costs, and I can't see how anyone can claim with a straight face that our system works as well or better than the ones used in the rest of the developed world.

Easy to say, harder to do. The big image problem they face, besides the feeling that they're always making yesterday's car tomorrow, is that their vehicles don't last. You don't hear people talking about how their Pontiac never dies, but you hear about how a Toyota will run forever. In initial quality surveys, US cars actually do pretty well--but they don't hold up.

That's true; they have made real progress in quality, but it's not lasting enough to change the public's impression of their vehicles. If they want to really sell the quality of their cars, they need to offer the best, longest warranties in the business on all models of their vehicles...that's the only way they will be able to recover their reputation.

Hybrids, perhaps. Flex-fuel I've long thought was a bad idea, at least the way we're doing it in the US, but that's a problem with corn-based ethanol more than anything else, and auto manufacturers don't have much control over that. As far as the forward thinking bit is concerned, you're right, but they'd have to overcome 60-70 years of industry stagnation to do it. I don't have much faith in their ability to do that.

Flex-fuel is almost certainly going to be a lot better in energy and environmental terms once crop-based biofuels are phased out in favor of cellulosic sources in the next decade, but for now they're mostly a way to avoid CAFE standards. They should expand them and make that option standard, of course, but it's not a solution in and of itself.

They need to get themselves out of the 1950's (or, sadly, 1990's) mindset of cheap, zero-responsibility oil consumption and start making vehicles competitive in a world where conventional fossil fuels are not going to be cheap ever again and will eventually become constrained to the point where cars and trucks will have to use something else.