NationStates Jolt Archive

Please Note, This is a serious proposal suggestion.

From the USA to Cuba, the President of the USA
whoever he or she is, now in the short term future,
this includes President Bush, Will work with both
Democrats and Republicans in congress to
establish these relations with the Government of Cuba.

1. Scrap the wet foot, dry foot policy.

2. Scrap the Cuban Adjustment Act.

3. Scrap the Cuban American family Visit limits.

4. Allow Cuban American family remittances $ to
thier family and friends , which already exsists.

5. Meet the minimum 20,000 immigration Visas, mutually agreed.

6. Allwow American tourists to visit Cuba.

7. Allow American Loans and Credits.

8, Establish full Economic Trade, as mutually agreed.

9. Establish social relations, that means allow
American private social aid organizations to Cuba.

From Cuba to the USA

1. Allow Cuban Americans to visit thier family & Friends in Cuba,
similar to # 3 above, which already exsists.

2. Allow Cuban Citizens to visit thier Cuban American
family and friends in the USA, which already exsists.

3. Meet the minimum 20,000 emigration Visas, mutually agreed.

4. Establish full Economic Trade, as mutually agreed.

5. Release all political prisoners in Cuba not exile,
who have not commited any physical crimes.

6. Allow Cuban political dissidents to form legal political partys.

7. Allow multy party elections to the Municipal, Provincial and
National Assembly governments in the upcoming Democratic
Cuban elections.

8. Allow acces to the government media at least for the time
of those multy party elections.

9. Allow internationally monitored elections.

As for Cuban Economic Reforms that is up to President Raul
and the Cuban National Assembly as elected
by the Cuban People in multy party elections where all
diffrent economic, political and social views be represented.

Note that I do not include reforming the CDR S',
Committees for the Defense of the Revolution,
as such organization acts as a security and
social organization, if 5, 6, 7, and 8 USA to Cuba
suggestions on the list are adopted by the
Cuban government of President Raul the CDR
still continues to act as a general security organization.

Please Note This is a serious proposal suggestion.

I will put in an official request to the moderators to preferably delete,
the thread call President Raul Castro of Cuba, calls for Cuba, USA Relations
for this Thread with all the correct Poll options questions.
or at least to close it, I would prefer for it to be deleted.

Plese repost your posts on this Thread.

Thank You

La Habana Cuba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lach-Land
NO! the proposal calls for a lean to capitalism for Cuba and no loss for the USA

Please repost your post on the correct Thread,
the Proposal calls for multy party democratic elections in Cuba to
the Municiapal, Provincial and National Assembly Governments,
how President Raul runs the economy is up to President Raul,
a state economy, a mixed economy, eventually with input of all
Cuban Citizens including my own family members in Cuba through
the upcoming democratic elections in Cuba,
I cannot vote in those elections, I am an American Citizen now,
and yes a Cuban American, like Irish, German, Italian Americans and others,
posted in the correct Thread.

*snip*

I see someone wants Cuba to go the same way the Soviet Union did. Why do you hate Cuba so?

Opening up Cuba to that kind of economic trade without limitations is practically selling out Cuba to the corporations who will end up raping it again, buying assets for peanuts and under-declaring values to cheat their taxes.

I see someone wants Cuba to go the same way the Soviet Union did. Why do you hate Cuba so?

Opening up Cuba to that kind of economic trade without limitations is practically selling out Cuba to the corporations who will end up raping it again, buying assets for peanuts and under-declaring values to cheat their taxes.

I do not hate Cuba, I have family members in Cuba, I keep in touch through letters and an ocasional phone call, I used to communicate with a family member through my e-mail and her e-mail at her office job work center,
we never said anything bad about the Cuban Government or Fidel, but one day we must have said something the Cuban government did not like,
I get this message from Cuba, access denied for political reasons,
I am not the first Cuban American this has happend too.

President Raul can run Cuba's economy through a state economy or mixed economy if he wants, the proposal calls for the same kind of election options you have in your nation of origin, in the nation from which you are posting from, thank you for re-posting your post here.

I do not hate Cuba, I have family members in Cuba, I keep in touch through letters and an ocasional phone call, I used to communicate with a family member through my e-mail and her e-mail at her office job work center,
we never said anything bad about the Cuban Government or Fidel, but one day we must have said something the Cuban government did not like,
I get this message from Cuba, access denied for political reasons,
I am not the first Cuban American this has happend too.

So you say. Don't give me that "I don't hate Cuba" spiel when your proposals seem to be prime material for another post Soviet style economic collapse where everything of value is bought up by rich foreign interests for peanuts, leaving the people without anything. But at least the people don't get a Russian winter eh?

Either you're naive about the consequences of your proposals or just plain hate Cuba.


President Raul can run Cuba's economy through a state economy or mixed economy if he wants,


Definitely not the way you worded the proposal.


the proposal calls for the same kind of election options you have in your nation of origin, in the nation from which you are posting froom.

And how the heck would you know where I am from anyway? I could be a bleeding Martian for all you know. Or a sentient AI inhabiting Jolt servers.

So you say. Don't give me that "I don't hate Cuba" spiel when your proposals seem to be prime material for another post Soviet style economic collapse where everything of value is bought up by rich foreign interests for peanuts, leaving the people without anything. But at least the people don't get a Russian winter eh?

Either you're naive about the consequences of your proposals or just plain hate Cuba.



Definitely not the way you worded the proposal.



And how the heck would you know where I am from anyway? I could be a bleeding Martian for all you know. Or a sentient AI running amok in Japan.

I doubt very much that you are a Martian,
Cuba has upcoming Municipal, Provincial, and National Assembly elections
in a one political party state that is not democratic.

I doubt very much that you are a Martian,


Stop dodging the question then. How the heck would you know where I'm from? The US isn't the only place with internet, as much as some backward hacks I've met like to think so. Nor is proficiency in English an American trait.

So bubsy boy. Where am I from?


Cuba has upcoming Municipal, Provincial, and National Assembly elections
in a one political party state that is not democratic.

So? Not-democratic /= rubbish state. See Singapore.

And I see you dodged the point that your proposals are make Cuba very vulnerable with no cost to the US at all.

Stop dodging the question then. How the heck would you know where I'm from? The US isn't the only place with internet, as much as some backward hacks I've met like to think so. Nor is proficiency in English an American trait.

So bubsy boy. Where am I from?



So? Not-democratic /= rubbish state. See Singapore.

And I see you dodged the point that your proposals are make Cuba very vulnerable with no cost to the US at all.

I dont know from what nation you are from, please tell me.

I think my proposal is very well balanced, I have my views, you have your views.

I dont know from what nation you are from, please tell me.

You know what? No. I won't. If only to frustrate you. But I'll tell you one thing for certain. I'm not an American. So stop acting like I'm one.


I think my proposal is very well balanced, I have my views, you have your views.

What kind of balance is American loans, private organizations and complete free trade without mention of a single check or precaution to prevent corporate plundering?

And I don't see America's voting system open to international monitoring. I mention this because YOU, are a Cuban American, and are asking for extra measures when your nation won't even consider them for itself.

You know what? No. I won't. If only to frustrate you. But I'll tell you one thing for certain. I'm not an American. So stop acting like I'm one.



What kind of balance is American loans, private organizations and complete free trade without mention of a single check or precaution to prevent corporate plundering?

And I don't see America's voting system open to international monitoring. I mention this because YOU, are a Cuban American, and are asking for extra measures when your nation won't even consider them for itself.

Cuba 2003 Election Results :

What the United Block Option means is 91.35 % of the voters voted thier support for all the winning candidates and the Cuban government,
in all seperate municipal elections in Cuba.

What does that say?

Electoral results
By Maria Julia Mayora
609 deputies and 1 199 provincial delegates were elected. 91.35% of the voters chose the united vote(block) option. For the first time in Cuba, the amount of citizens that went to the polls exceeded the eight millions.

According to the information offered by Dr. Juan Vela, president of the National Electoral Commission(CEN), the updated voter's registry included 8 313 770 people, and 8 115 215 of them exercised their constitutional right, having a 97.61% of attendance.

Not only the high rate of participation is transcendent but also the quality of the elections. Vela indicated that 7 803 893 ballots were valid(96.14%), which surpasses last October's 241 378 valid ballots when the district delegates were elected.

This opportunity the balance of ballots in blank(243 431) and the spoilt ones(69 863), was smaller. In October they averaged the 2.78% and 2.54% respectively; this time they represented the 3% and 0.86%. This is a clear demonstration of the Cuban people position, even though U.S. employees persistent calls to sabotage the elections.

Our people, commented the university professor and President of CEN, knows what it wants, it is convinced of its principles and demonstrates this through the secret vote.

A 91.35% of the united vote, commented Ruben Perez, secretary of CEN, is a fact of extraordinary value. It means that some other 14 992 electors chose this alternative compared with the general elections of 1997-98. That percentage, he said, remarks the popular support that enjoys the Cuban democratic system, and expresses the level of unity and political culture that has been reached during this 44 years of Revolution.

SUCCESS IN THE TWO EVALUATIONS
What has happened this January is also evidence of the rigor that presided the nomination process of the 609 deputies candidates and the 1 199 provincial delegates candidates. Ernesto Freire, president of the National Candidacies Commission, pointed out that there were two important evaluations to be made for the representatives of the electoral commissions. One, derived from the fact that the municipal assemblies had the right to approve or reject the proposals, and the second one with the voting results because all nominees were elected, they need to win more than half of the valid votes.

In addition, Freire summarized the amplitude and meaning of the exchanges between the candidates and the people. Altogether, 11 102 meetings took place with the presence of more than 2 161 150 Cubans. (February, 2003)

More than eight million Cubans vote
Conclusive evidence of popular support for the homeland, the Revolution and socialism

BY MARÍA JULIA MAYORAL -Granma daily staff writer-WITH the participation of 8,115,215 voters in this Sunday's elections, the Cuban people once again offered conclusive evidence of their support for candidates for the National and Provincial Assemblies, but also for the homeland, the Revolution and socialism.

According to preliminary information given by Juan Vela, president of the National Electoral Commission (CEN), 97.61% of persons on the electoral rolls voted, on a day characterized by organization, the early attendance of millions of electors at the polling stations and the special patriotic spirit offered by the presence of thousands of young pioneers guarding the ballot boxes.

At the close of this bulletin the count was underway, beginning with the votes cast for deputies. Vela explained that once that was completed, they would proceed to validate the election of 609 candidates to the National Assembly and then the 1,199 provincial delegates. In the case of the former the responsibility lies with the CEN and, in the latter, with the corresponding provincial electoral commissions.

In order to be elected, each nominee must receive more than half of the valid votes cast in the municipality or district where they were proposed.

The CEN president emphasized the good functioning of communications systems in spite of heavy rain in parts of east Cuba, like Santiago de Cuba, Holguín, Granma and Las Tunas. He likewise praised the excellent labors of more then 180,000 citizens who voluntarily staffed the constituency tables, and the work of the commissions at all levels.

The most recent electoral process to elect municipal, and provincial delegates and members of the national Parliament, ended on January 19, 2003 with a voter turnout of 95.75 percent to elect the municipal and provincial delegates, and a 97.61 percent turnout when the elections for the national Parliament took place.

(Taken from: Granma)

I think that all sides would indeed benefit from more normalised relations and the increase in tourism, there is NO WAY that Bush or Raul would agree to most of the stuff you proposed. History is too big a thing in the eyes of these men.

IF (and that's a pretty big if) Cuba were to open up suddenly and unexpectedly to the world economy the their economy would be destroyed because the people have no experience in how to operate in a market economy (and you are assuming that a market economy works better than a command economy).

The whole idea is irrelevant anyway because the US and Cuba (and a large proportion of the populations of the countries) see themselves as enemies and any change in this attitude would take years and any wrangling over a deal for normalising relations would also take ages.

The only thing I don't get is how on earth the US manages to paint Cuba as such a terrible treat to them? Could anyone tell me?

The only thing I don't get is how on earth the US manages to paint Cuba as such a terrible treat to them? Could anyone tell me?

It's all the sugar Cuba produces. Diabetes you know. *nods*

I think that all sides would indeed benefit from more normalised relations and the increase in tourism, there is NO WAY that Bush or Raul would agree to most of the stuff you proposed. History is too big a thing in the eyes of these men.

IF (and that's a pretty big if) Cuba were to open up suddenly and unexpectedly to the world economy the their economy would be destroyed because the people have no experience in how to operate in a market economy (and you are assuming that a market economy works better than a command economy).

My proposal says establish full economic trade, mutually agreed,
just like all other nations, mutually agreed economic trade.

The whole idea is irrelevant anyway because the US and Cuba (and a large proportion of the populations of the countries) see themselves as enemies and any change in this attitude would take years and any wrangling over a deal for normalising relations would also take ages.

The only thing I don't get is how on earth the US manages to paint Cuba as such a terrible treat to them? Could anyone tell me?

The old cold war days, yes the cold war is over,
but I would think you would be in favor of multy party democratic elections in Cuba just as you have in the nation you are posting from,
I would think you would be in favor of releasing all Cuban political prisoners who have not committed any physical crimes,
I would think you would be in favor of a left wing media,
a right wing media, a moderate media, etc, etc.

What the United Block Option means is 91.35 % of the voters voted thier support for all the winning candidates and the Cuban government,
in all seperate municipal elections in Cuba.

What does that say?

(Taken from: Granma)

Absolutely nothing insofar as your proposals go. Maybe it says something about you, and goalposts running around. Cubans dissatisfied with their choices wouldn't vote. And I don't recall there being cases of people being forced to vote.

And definitely something about taking your news from your granma. :p

Absolutely nothing insofar as your proposals go. Maybe it says something about you, and goalposts running around.

And definitely something about taking your news from your granma. :p

If you beleive those results as democratic I dont know how to answer you.

We have diffrent views and I respect your right to your views.

If you beleive those results as democratic I dont know how to answer you.

And somehow, you believe they'll be different if there were other parties running?

I never stated Cuba was democratic. But you keep jumping around on your attempts to make points that you're starting to look like a Mexican jumping bean.

And somehow, you believe they'll be different if there were other parties running?

I never stated Cuba was democratic. But you keep jumping around on your attempts to make points that you're starting to look like a Mexican jumping bean.

If you dont think Cuba is democratic,
dont you think it should be?

As the host of this Thread, good night for now.

Granma

International
English edition.N A L



Havana. January 21, 2003


97.61% turn out in elections


• 8,115,215 Cubans vote • 91.35% choose block vote • 96.14% valid ballots


DR. Juan Vela, president of the National Electoral Commission (CEN), announced that 97.61% of the 8,313,770 registered voters went to the polls in the January 19 elections.

Speaking on Cuban television, Vela detailed that 8,115,215 Cubans exercised their constitutional right to elect National Assembly (Parliament) deputies and People’s Power Provincial Assembly delegates.

He highlighted that 91.35% of electors chose the united vote (block) option and 8.65% used the selective vote (one or various candidates).

The CEN president gave the voting figures for the country’s provinces: Pinar del Río, 97.08%; Habana, 99.49%; Havana City 95.22%; Matanzas, 96.37%; Villa Clara, 97.36%; Cienfuegos, 97.39%; Sancti Spíritus, 96.02%; Ciego de Avila, 96.55%; Camagüey, 97.29%; Las Tunas, 97.46%; Holguín, 95.44%; Granma, 97.72%; Santiago, 97.54%; Guantánamo, 96.05%; and Isle of Youth special municipality, 96.44%.

All the candidates for deputies and provincial delegates were elected (they needed to win more than half of the valid votes), added Vela, explaining that the number of votes obtained by each person would be published shortly, once the validation process was completed.

Vela also summarized votes cast: 96.14% were valid; 3% left blank; and 0.86% were spoilt.

If you dont think Cuba is democratic,
dont you think it should be?

It should be governed by a government that actually takes care of its people. Not by a eyes-closed-ears-plugged-democracy-solves-all-ignoring-poverty-and-destruction la-la-la land.

Doesn't matter if its communism, dictatorship or Unified Consciousness Matrice. As long as it fulfills the obligation of caring for the people.

If you dont think Cuba is democratic,
dont you think it should be?

Cuba is democratic in the true sense of the word.

The Myth of Cuban Dictatorship

Charles McKelvey
Professor of Sociology
Presbyterian College
Clinton, South Carolina

as published in Global Times, July/August, 1998

I have been to Cuba four times since 1993. Last summer, I was there for ten weeks, and my activities included in-depth interviews of university professors and leaders in the Popular Councils concerning the political process in Cuba. In addition, I talked to many different people that I met informally, sometimes through families with which I was connected and other times with people I met as I traveled about Havana by myself. I do not consider myself an expert on Cuba. I would describe myself as someone who is knowledgeable about Third World national liberation movements and is in the process of learning about the Cuban case. My general impression is that the revolutionary government enjoys a high degree of legitimacy among the people. Occasionally, I came across someone who was alienated from the system. There disaffection was not rooted in the political system but in the economic hardships that have emerged during the "special period." The great majority seemed to support the system and seemed very well informed about the structures of the world economy and the challenges that Cuba faces. Many defended the system with great enthusiasm and strong conviction. I had expected none of this prior to my first trip, recalling my visit to Tanzania in 1982, by which time many had come to view "ujamaa socialism" as a faded dream, at least according to my impressions during my brief visit. But to my surprise, I found much support for the revolutionary project in Cuba. I could not help but contrast this to the United States, where there is widespread cynicism in regard to political and other institutions.

The Cuban political system is based on a foundation of local elections. Each urban neighborhood and rural village and area is organized into a "circumscription," consisting generally of 1000 to 1500 voters. The circumscription meets regularly to discuss neighborhood or village problems. Each three years, the circumscription conducts elections, in which from two to eight candidates compete. The nominees are not nominated by the Communist Party or any other organizations. The nominations are made by anyone in attendance at the meetings, which generally have a participation rate of 85% to 95%. Those nominated are candidates for office without party affiliation. They do not conduct campaigns as such. A one page biography of all the candidates is widely-distributed. The nominees are generally known by the voters, since the circumscription is generally not larger than 1500 voters. If no candidate receives 50% of the votes, a run-off election is held. Those elected serve as delegates to the Popular Councils, which are intermediary structures between the circumscription and the Municipal Assembly. Those elected also serve simultaneously as delegates to the Municipal Assembly. The delegates serve in the Popular Councils and the Municipal Assemblies on a voluntary basis without pay, above and beyond their regular employment.

The Municipal Assemblies elect the chief executives of the Municipality, who have supervision over the various ministries, such as health and education, within the Municipality. The Municipal Assemblies also elect an electoral commission, which develops a slate of candidates for the Provincial Assembly for ratification by the voters in the province. The Provincial Assemblies have responsibilities in the Province which parallel those of the Municipal Assembly in the Municipality, including electing an electoral commission which develops a slate of candidates for the National Assembly for ratification by the voters in the nation. The National Assembly is the legislative branch, and as such it makes the laws. It also elects the President of the Council of State, who appoints a cabinet and makes a government. The President of the Council of State is Fidel Castro, a position to which he has been re-elected since, I believe, 1975, when the Constitution was established.

The role of the Communist Party in the political process is very different from what I had previously thought. The Cuban Communist Party is not an electoral party. It does not nominate or support candidates for office. Nor does it make laws or select the head of state. These roles are played by the national assembly, which is elected by the people, and for which membership in the Communist Party is not required. Most members of the national, provincial, and municipal assemblies are members of the Communist Party, but many are not, and those delegates and deputies who are party members are not selected by the party but by the people in the electoral process. The party is not open to anyone to join. About fifteen percent of adults are party members. Members are selected by the party in a thorough process that includes interviews with co-workers and neighbors. Those selected are considered model citizens. They are selected because they are viewed as strong supporters of the revolution; as hard and productive workers; as people who are well-liked and respected by their co-workers and neighbors; as people who have taken leadership roles in the various mass organizations of women, students, workers, and farmers; as people who take seriously their responsibilities as spouses and parents and family members; and as people who have "moral" lives, such as avoiding excessive use of alcohol or extramarital relations that are considered scandalous. The party is viewed as the vanguard of the revolution. It makes recommendations concerning the future development of the revolution, and it criticizes tendencies it considers counterrevolutionary. It has enormous influence in Cuba, but its authority is moral, not legal. The party does not make laws or elect the president. These tasks are carried out by the National Assembly, which is elected by the people.

Prior traveling to Cuba, I had heard that the Cuban Communist Party is the only political party and that in national elections the voters are simply presented with a slate of candidates, rather than two or more candidates and/or political parties from which to choose. These two observations are correct. But taken by themselves, they given a very misleading impression. They imply that the Cuban Communist Party develops the slate, which in fact it does not do. Since the slate makers are named by those who are elected, the ratification of the slate by the voters is simply the final step in a process that begins with the voters. The reason given for using a slate rather than presenting voters with a choice at this stage was that the development of the slate ensures that all sectors (such as women, workers, farmers, students, representative of important social service agencies in the jurisdiction, etc.) are represented.

As I indicated, Cubans tend to enthusiastically defend their system. They point out that the elected members of the assemblies are not professional politicians who must rely on fund-raising to be elected, as occurs in the United States. Moreover, it avoids excessive conflict among political parties, at the expense of the common good. As my good friend Professor Guzman observed, "it is a system which avoids the absurdities and distortions of bourgeois democracy." They seem to believe in it. I think it makes sense. I also think that the political system in the United States is experiencing a legitimation crisis, so I am not inclined to recommend it to Cubans. It seems to me that they have developed a system carefully designed to ensure that wealthy individuals do not have greater voice than working class individuals, and therefore it is a system that is more advanced in protecting the political rights of citizens.

Although I have not had the experience, I suppose it would be possible to encounter a Cuban who feels alienated and who might say, "The Communist Party controls everything." This is true, because a majority of those elected are members of the Communist Party, and the higher up you go, the more likely it is to be so. Nevertheless, the selection of leadership is based on local elections. The Communist Party occupies a position of authority in the political institutions because the people support it. Our hypothetical alienated person is really expressing a frustration over the widespread support of the people for the Communist Party. The mechanism for the removal of members of the Communist Party from positions of authority in the government is in place, should that desire be the popular sentiment.

It is ironic that while many in the West assume that Cuba is less protective of political rights, in fact they are developing a system that is deliberately designed to ensure that the right of the people to vote does not become manipulated in a process controlled by the wealthy, and it therefore is more protective of political rights. Many in the West make the same kind of false assumption in regard to the issue of freedom of the press. Take the case of newspapers. Many in the West think that the state controls the newspapers. In fact, the state prohibits the private ownership of newspapers. The various newspapers are operated by the various organizations: the Communist Party, the federations of workers associations, the federation of farmers associations, the federation of student associations, etc. In the United States, the newspapers are owned by corporations. In Cuba, those with financial resources to do so are not allowed to form a newspaper. This is a restriction on the right of property ownership, a restriction imposed for the common good, in particular to ensure that the people have a voice and that the wealthy do not have a voice disproportionate to their numbers. By prohibiting private ownership of newspapers, the system ensures that the various newspapers will be under the control of the various mass organizations. So it is a system which pushes the principle of freedom of the press to a more advanced level than what occurs in capitalism, ensuring that all exercise this right equally and avoiding a situation where the wealthy exercise freedom of the press but the workers and farmers possess it only as an abstract right.

So the Cuban revolutionary project has many gains, not only in the area of social and economic rights, but also in the area of political and civil rights. Because of these achievements, the system enjoys wide popular support, in spite of the hardships caused by U.S. opposition and by the collapse of the Soviet Union. Drawing upon the institutions that they have developed over the last forty years, they are responding to the present challenges and are surviving in a post-Cold War world. The strength and vitality of these institutions is worthy of our investigation, for Cuba may represent an important case as we seek to understand how peripheral and semi-peripheral states can overcome the legacy of underdevelopment.

For those of us on the Left, Cuba's achievements represent the fullest attainment of our hopes. The Cuban revolutionary project is deserving of our active and engaged support.

Oh pipe down AP. You're starting to sound as bad as that UN Abassadorship guy, and he was a really shitty troll.

Persolly I think Cuban-American Relations are not something that can be fixed over night. I think that if Cuba is going to become a free democratic state with good reations with the US, we should allow it to happen gradually.

Some of the posters made a good point that to demand Cuba sudenly shift from a strict controled authoritarian system to a democratic free market one would only be transfuring power from the communist to corperations and orginized Crime.

I think what Cuba should do, if it has not done so already is to privatize all none essentail industries. That way you begin to have people who understand a maket economy. Then you move to educate the populouse about democracy. No democracy can flourish if it people do not understand how it works. Then allow the formation of alternative parties and free elections.

I'd like to make the process as painless as possible becuase if shit hits the fan in Cuba and it does collapse then that would mean troop commitment to yet another area. I seriously dout Cubans wan US boots back on their soil and I dout we in a poition where we can commit to another conflict.

We already support a much worse dictatorship, Saudi Arabia. So why not Cuba? They're only 90 miles away!

I would support
Raul won't
American President will

I would support
Raul won't
American President will

Sure you would. Cuba has everything to lose, and America has everything to gain.

Sure you would. Cuba has everything to lose, and America has everything to gain.that is why I vote other in this Poll.

I support the lifting of this disgraceful Embargo.

I dont see any reason for an embargo against Cuba.

And definitely something about taking your news from your granma. :p

I love how it's called Granma. I think it should be delivered with some cookies, or maybe some pie. That would be awesome. I'd even sign up for it then.

I love how it's called Granma. I think it should be delivered with some cookies, or maybe some pie. That would be awesome. I'd even sign up for it then.

I don't know...wouldn't it come with mandatory nagging by the delivery agent?

I don't know...wouldn't it come with mandatory nagging by the delivery agent?

To get married to a nice girl and make lot's of nice grandchildren. Yeah, that would be involved.

Granma is actually named after the American yacht which Castro used to return to Cuba from exile in Mexico after his first attempted coup. IIRC it was only designed to hold about a dozen passengers, and Castro loaded it with 80+ guerrillas, including Raul and Che.

As the host of this Thread, thank you to all who have voted and posted and those that may yet do so.

There is nothing wrong in being a Socialist in the European Socialist Democratic tradition, and in the Socialist Democratic sense of Presidents Ricardo Lagos Escobar & Michelle Bachelet of Chile, nor in the NS Socialist Democratic sense.

But it is wrong to be a Socialist Dictator for life in the sense of Fidel Castro, who passes power for life to his brother Raul, in a one political party state where other economic, political and social views are not allowed.

Note : The Cuban National Assembly later changed the word untouchable
to irrevocable to make it more precise.

NEWS

Millions of workers get two days off to watch National Assembly session on television

Associated Press June 24, 2002 Monday 8:57 AM Eastern Time

By ANITA SNOW; Associated Press Writer


HAVANA-Millions of workers across this communist island were being given the day off Monday and Tuesday to allow them to watch a special televised parliamentary session to consider inscribing Cuba's socialist system in the constitution as "untouchable."

The communist leadership's decision to close all offices, factories and stores for two full days during its current cash crunch underscored the importance it is placing on the proposed constitutional amendment that states Cuba's economic, political and social systems cannot be changed.

Hospitals, transportation and other essential services will not be interrupted, but school classes will be canceled for those two days and previously scheduled semester-end examinations will be postponed. Fidel Castro called the special parliamentary session over the weekend.

The entire session both days will be broadcast live on state television and radio.

The measure had been expected to be considered during a regular session of the National Assembly, Cuba's unicameral parliament, on July 5. But National Assembly President Ricardo Alarcon on Friday asked Castro to call a special session because he believed the proposal is so historically significant.

The constitutional change was the subject of a campaign by the communist system's national support groups, which say they gathered 8.1 million signatures - more than 99 percent of the island's legal voters aged 16 and older.

Opposition leaders say the signature campaign was the government's response to their own petition, which collected more than 11,000 signatures. They have also questioned whether all of those signing the official petition did so of their own free will.

Known as the Varela Project, the opposition's petition seeks a referendum asking voters if they favor reforms such as freedom of expression, the right to own a business and an amnesty for political prisoners.

Most Cubans first heard of Varela Project last month in a speech by former President Jimmy Carter when he visited the island. But its contents have not been published in the state media.

Organizers of Varela Project campaign delivered their petitions to the National Assembly on May 10 and have received no response. It still remained unclear what impact the government's own constitutional amendment would have on the Varela Project.

The government maintains it is protesting statements last month by President George W. Bush that American travel and trade restrictions with the communist island would not be eased unless Cuba embraces democracy.

Copyright 2002 Associated Press


While I think my proposal suggestion is a fairly good peace treaty for Cuba, USA relations, the problem is getting President Raul to accept it, release of all political prisoners who have not committed any physical crimes withinn Cuba not exile, allow multy party elections to the Municipal, Provincial and National Assembly governments in the upcoming Cuban elections in a one political party state.

As for Cuban economic reforms that would be up to President Raul and the National Assembly as elected by the Cuban people in multy party elections with many diffrent economic, political and social views represented.

And Full economic relations with the USA as mutually agreed.

From the USA to Cuba, the President of the USA whoever he or she is, now in the short term future, this includes President Bush, Will work with both Democrats and Republicans in congress to establish these relations with the Government of Cuba.

1. Scrap the wet foot, dry foot policy.

2. Scrap the Cuban Adjustment Act.

3. Scrap the Cuban American family Visit limits.

4. Allow Cuban American family remittances $ to
thier family and friends , which already exsists.

5. Meet the minimum 20,000 immigration Visas, mutually agreed.

6. Allwow American tourists to visit Cuba.

7. Allow American Loans and Credits.

8, Establish full Economic Trade, as mutually agreed.

9. Establish social relations, that means allow
American private social aid organizations to Cuba.

From Cuba to the USA

1. Allow Cuban Americans to visit thier family & Friends in Cuba,
similar to # 3 above, which already exsists.

2. Allow Cuban Citizens to visit thier Cuban American
family and friends in the USA, which already exsists.

3. Meet the minimum 20,000 emigration Visas, mutually agreed.

4. Establish full Economic Trade, as mutually agreed.

5. Release all political prisoners in Cuba not exile,
who have not commited any physical crimes.

6. Allow Cuban political dissidents to form legal political partys.

7. Allow multy party elections to the Municipal, Provincial and
National Assembly governments in the upcoming Democratic
Cuban elections.

8. Allow acces to the government media at least for the time
of those multy party elections.

9. Allow internationally monitored elections.

As for Cuban Economic Reforms that is up to President Raul and the Cuban National Assembly as elected by the Cuban People in multy party elections with all diffrent economic, political and social views represented.

Note that I do not include reforming the CDR S', Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, as such organization acts as a security and social organization, if 5, 6, 7, and 8 USA to Cuba suggestions on the list are adopted by the Cuban government of President Raul the CDR still continues to act as a general security organization.

Please Note This is a serious proposal suggestion.


If you think that elections where according to the government under President for life Fidel, 97.61 % Percent of all egibile voters voted and 91.32 % Percent choose the united vote block option of support for all of the above winning candidates in all seperate Municipal elections in Cuba.

And approved a national referendum amendment to the Cuban constitution by over 99 Percent of all elegible voters to declare Cuba's economic, political and social system as irrevocable was fair, correct and democratic in a one political party state where other economic, political and social views are not allowed, than I dont know how to answer you.

Cuba should be a democratic nation where all diffrent economic, political and social views are represented in its National Assembly, just like it is your nations of origin on this forum.

There are over 2,000,000 million Cuban exiles all over the world, mostly Cuban Americans, who where once Cuban Citizens under Fidel, including all recent Cuban Balseros.

As for the so-called embargo hurting Cuba so much, Cuba trades with Canada, The EU Nations, Latin American Nations, China and others and even buys agricultural products from the USA on a COD basis and millions of Cubans directly and indirectly receive and depend on Cuban American family remittances $.


Posted on Wed, Jul. 18, 2007


Legless Cuban survivor finally reaches U.S.

After 15 years and the loss of both legs, a Cuban rafter finally arrived in Miami to tell about his harrowing escape.

BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA

El Nuevo Herald

He had managed to crawl through the third barrier between Cuban territory and the U.S. Naval Base at Guantánamo when the warning flares lit the night sky.

Amado Veloso Vega thought he'd stay there till dawn, confident the Cuban guards could not enter the mine-laden strip dubbed ''no-man's land.'' But then he heard shots, and when he tried to move, a mine exploded, destroying his legs and flinging him 15 feet.

With no strength to shout, Veloso lay there until he heard the soldiers approach.

It was the beginning of a 15-year odyssey to get to the United States that ended this week. Veloso, 36, arrived in Miami on Monday with a U.S. State Department humanitarian visa.

Veloso is headed for Louisville, Ky., where the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which sponsored him, has found him a home.

''I'm still pinching myself, because I can't believe it. I'm in Miami!'' he said this week at his Miami hotel. ``I want to laugh because I believe I suffered enough. In Cuba, I was a walking dead man.''

The details of his horrific 1992 experience with the mine remain vivid today. ''Strips of flesh dangled from my legs. I was disfigured and my mouth was torn,'' he recalled. ``I couldn't react, though I didn't lose consciousness altogether.''

He'll never forget one man and what he said. Vega, a short man in uniform, told another that Veloso ''wouldn't make it alive'' to the hospital in Guantánamo.

''They started to play with me. They bayoneted me in the hand and in the leg and then pulled me off the fence,'' Veloso said, showing his scars.
Veloso was taken directly to the morgue. There, a doctor wouldn't give up, injecting him with adrenaline. Veloso was revived.

He slowly returned to health, but his nightmare wasn't over. For the attempted escape, Cuban authorities sentenced Veloso to two years of detention at his Havana home. A mystery remains: The mine that did so much damage was in Cuban territory, but at the time, some U.S.-planted mines were in the area, too.

Veloso said he tried to remake his life but that even relatives and friends turned their backs on him.

He sought prosthetic legs at a Havana hospital. ``They concluded that my accident was due to my attempt to leave the country illegally and told me the [prostheses] they had were for revolutionaries and fighters back from Angola.''

Then he met activist Francisco Chaviano -- now a political prisoner in Cuba -- who arranged for the Cuban American National Foundation to send him a wheelchair. The chair was presented to Veloso in the name of Jorge Mas Canosa, the organization's founder. Veloso and a medical specialist friend fashioned a pair of plaster prostheses.

Early in 1994, Veloso applied for a refugee visa at the U.S. Interests Section in Havana, but he says the office turned him down. He then wrote to U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, who answered his letter and agreed to support his application, as did Rep. Lincoln Díaz Balart.

The association with Miami exile politicians caught the attention of the Cuban government. 'State Security constantly visited my home. `Who are you? First, Mas Canosa. Then, Ros-Lehtinen and Díaz-Balart. What are you up to?' they would ask me,'' Veloso said.

During the 1994 Cuban rafter crisis, Veloso tried to escape on a makeshift boat, but he was caught. Ensuing attempts failed as well.

``I lost track of all the arrests and fines. Something compelled me to look for what I couldn't find in Cuba: respect for a human being, respect for life and the right to overcome my handicap.''

In September 2006, during the police raids that preceded the Summit of Non-Aligned Countries in Havana, Veloso made his final attempt to flee. With 15 others he bought a homemade boat made of aluminum tubes. Police intercepted the others before they arrived at the beach, so he decided to travel alone from Cajío Beach in Havana.

'The boat was known as a `tube of toothpaste.' They are made of six aluminum tubes and cost about $4,000,'' he said.

The U.S. Coast Guard intercepted him 27 miles from the Mexican island of Cozumel and sent him to the place that reminded him of his personal tragedy: the U.S. Navy base at Guantánamo.

There he remained for nine months, working as a bowling alley assistant. Part of the money he earned he sent to his mother, wife and two children who remain in Cuba.

''That people would risk their lives, like Amado did, that they would risk everything, clearly demonstrates the desperation of Cubans on the island,'' Ros-Lehtinen, R-Miami, told El Nuevo Herald on Tuesday.

Today Veloso wants to place flowers on Mas Canosa's grave. ''When I look at it from afar, I feel it was worth it,'' he said of his odyssey. ``It's a high price, but it's the price of liberty.'

WCancio.Miami Herald.

Am I making any sense to you
as to what is really needed in Cuba?
Yes or No ? You may explain.

Perhaps this new Cuba could be run by great and 'democratic' Miami men like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Carmona

Why on earth, when Cuba has perfected their majoritarian socialist state, and is on eave of making it untouchable, should they accept immigrants from that crime-ridden den of drug-dealers, anti-social criminals and gangs? Cuba has struggled for over 50 years to be free of foreign imperialist capital and it's cronies. Cuba has freedom of the press, private ownership of media is illegal and papers are distributed state money proportionate to the number of people their mass organization represents. Cuba has democracy, they elect all their representatives in the congress, and even at devolved local levels they have elections.




The Myth of Cuban Dictatorship

Charles McKelvey
Professor of Sociology
Presbyterian College
Clinton, South Carolina

as published in Global Times, July/August, 1998

I have been to Cuba four times since 1993. Last summer, I was there for ten weeks, and my activities included in-depth interviews of university professors and leaders in the Popular Councils concerning the political process in Cuba. In addition, I talked to many different people that I met informally, sometimes through families with which I was connected and other times with people I met as I traveled about Havana by myself. I do not consider myself an expert on Cuba. I would describe myself as someone who is knowledgeable about Third World national liberation movements and is in the process of learning about the Cuban case. My general impression is that the revolutionary government enjoys a high degree of legitimacy among the people. Occasionally, I came across someone who was alienated from the system. There disaffection was not rooted in the political system but in the economic hardships that have emerged during the "special period." The great majority seemed to support the system and seemed very well informed about the structures of the world economy and the challenges that Cuba faces. Many defended the system with great enthusiasm and strong conviction. I had expected none of this prior to my first trip, recalling my visit to Tanzania in 1982, by which time many had come to view "ujamaa socialism" as a faded dream, at least according to my impressions during my brief visit. But to my surprise, I found much support for the revolutionary project in Cuba. I could not help but contrast this to the United States, where there is widespread cynicism in regard to political and other institutions.

The Cuban political system is based on a foundation of local elections. Each urban neighborhood and rural village and area is organized into a "circumscription," consisting generally of 1000 to 1500 voters. The circumscription meets regularly to discuss neighborhood or village problems. Each three years, the circumscription conducts elections, in which from two to eight candidates compete. The nominees are not nominated by the Communist Party or any other organizations. The nominations are made by anyone in attendance at the meetings, which generally have a participation rate of 85% to 95%. Those nominated are candidates for office without party affiliation. They do not conduct campaigns as such. A one page biography of all the candidates is widely-distributed. The nominees are generally known by the voters, since the circumscription is generally not larger than 1500 voters. If no candidate receives 50% of the votes, a run-off election is held. Those elected serve as delegates to the Popular Councils, which are intermediary structures between the circumscription and the Municipal Assembly. Those elected also serve simultaneously as delegates to the Municipal Assembly. The delegates serve in the Popular Councils and the Municipal Assemblies on a voluntary basis without pay, above and beyond their regular employment.

The Municipal Assemblies elect the chief executives of the Municipality, who have supervision over the various ministries, such as health and education, within the Municipality. The Municipal Assemblies also elect an electoral commission, which develops a slate of candidates for the Provincial Assembly for ratification by the voters in the province. The Provincial Assemblies have responsibilities in the Province which parallel those of the Municipal Assembly in the Municipality, including electing an electoral commission which develops a slate of candidates for the National Assembly for ratification by the voters in the nation. The National Assembly is the legislative branch, and as such it makes the laws. It also elects the President of the Council of State, who appoints a cabinet and makes a government. The President of the Council of State is Fidel Castro, a position to which he has been re-elected since, I believe, 1975, when the Constitution was established.

The role of the Communist Party in the political process is very different from what I had previously thought. The Cuban Communist Party is not an electoral party. It does not nominate or support candidates for office. Nor does it make laws or select the head of state. These roles are played by the national assembly, which is elected by the people, and for which membership in the Communist Party is not required. Most members of the national, provincial, and municipal assemblies are members of the Communist Party, but many are not, and those delegates and deputies who are party members are not selected by the party but by the people in the electoral process. The party is not open to anyone to join. About fifteen percent of adults are party members. Members are selected by the party in a thorough process that includes interviews with co-workers and neighbors. Those selected are considered model citizens. They are selected because they are viewed as strong supporters of the revolution; as hard and productive workers; as people who are well-liked and respected by their co-workers and neighbors; as people who have taken leadership roles in the various mass organizations of women, students, workers, and farmers; as people who take seriously their responsibilities as spouses and parents and family members; and as people who have "moral" lives, such as avoiding excessive use of alcohol or extramarital relations that are considered scandalous. The party is viewed as the vanguard of the revolution. It makes recommendations concerning the future development of the revolution, and it criticizes tendencies it considers counterrevolutionary. It has enormous influence in Cuba, but its authority is moral, not legal. The party does not make laws or elect the president. These tasks are carried out by the National Assembly, which is elected by the people.

Prior traveling to Cuba, I had heard that the Cuban Communist Party is the only political party and that in national elections the voters are simply presented with a slate of candidates, rather than two or more candidates and/or political parties from which to choose. These two observations are correct. But taken by themselves, they given a very misleading impression. They imply that the Cuban Communist Party develops the slate, which in fact it does not do. Since the slate makers are named by those who are elected, the ratification of the slate by the voters is simply the final step in a process that begins with the voters. The reason given for using a slate rather than presenting voters with a choice at this stage was that the development of the slate ensures that all sectors (such as women, workers, farmers, students, representative of important social service agencies in the jurisdiction, etc.) are represented.

As I indicated, Cubans tend to enthusiastically defend their system. They point out that the elected members of the assemblies are not professional politicians who must rely on fund-raising to be elected, as occurs in the United States. Moreover, it avoids excessive conflict among political parties, at the expense of the common good. As my good friend Professor Guzman observed, "it is a system which avoids the absurdities and distortions of bourgeois democracy." They seem to believe in it. I think it makes sense. I also think that the political system in the United States is experiencing a legitimation crisis, so I am not inclined to recommend it to Cubans. It seems to me that they have developed a system carefully designed to ensure that wealthy individuals do not have greater voice than working class individuals, and therefore it is a system that is more advanced in protecting the political rights of citizens.

Although I have not had the experience, I suppose it would be possible to encounter a Cuban who feels alienated and who might say, "The Communist Party controls everything." This is true, because a majority of those elected are members of the Communist Party, and the higher up you go, the more likely it is to be so. Nevertheless, the selection of leadership is based on local elections. The Communist Party occupies a position of authority in the political institutions because the people support it. Our hypothetical alienated person is really expressing a frustration over the widespread support of the people for the Communist Party. The mechanism for the removal of members of the Communist Party from positions of authority in the government is in place, should that desire be the popular sentiment.

It is ironic that while many in the West assume that Cuba is less protective of political rights, in fact they are developing a system that is deliberately designed to ensure that the right of the people to vote does not become manipulated in a process controlled by the wealthy, and it therefore is more protective of political rights. Many in the West make the same kind of false assumption in regard to the issue of freedom of the press. Take the case of newspapers. Many in the West think that the state controls the newspapers. In fact, the state prohibits the private ownership of newspapers. The various newspapers are operated by the various organizations: the Communist Party, the federations of workers associations, the federation of farmers associations, the federation of student associations, etc. In the United States, the newspapers are owned by corporations. In Cuba, those with financial resources to do so are not allowed to form a newspaper. This is a restriction on the right of property ownership, a restriction imposed for the common good, in particular to ensure that the people have a voice and that the wealthy do not have a voice disproportionate to their numbers. By prohibiting private ownership of newspapers, the system ensures that the various newspapers will be under the control of the various mass organizations. So it is a system which pushes the principle of freedom of the press to a more advanced level than what occurs in capitalism, ensuring that all exercise this right equally and avoiding a situation where the wealthy exercise freedom of the press but the workers and farmers possess it only as an abstract right.

So the Cuban revolutionary project has many gains, not only in the area of social and economic rights, but also in the area of political and civil rights. Because of these achievements, the system enjoys wide popular support, in spite of the hardships caused by U.S. opposition and by the collapse of the Soviet Union. Drawing upon the institutions that they have developed over the last forty years, they are responding to the present challenges and are surviving in a post-Cold War world. The strength and vitality of these institutions is worthy of our investigation, for Cuba may represent an important case as we seek to understand how peripheral and semi-peripheral states can overcome the legacy of underdevelopment.

For those of us on the Left, Cuba's achievements represent the fullest attainment of our hopes. The Cuban revolutionary project is deserving of our active and engaged support.

Perhaps this new Cuba could be run by great and 'democratic' Miami men like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Carmona

Why on earth, when Cuba has perfected their majoritarian socialist state, and is on eave of making it untouchable, should they accept immigrants from that crime-ridden den of drug-dealers, anti-social criminals and gangs? Cuba has struggled for over 50 years to be free of foreign imperialist capital and it's cronies. Cuba has freedom of the press, private ownership of media is illegal and papers are distributed state money proportionate to the number of people their mass organization represents. Cuba has democracy, they elect all their representatives in the congress, and even at devolved local levels they have elections.



Andaras Prime,
There is nothing wrong in being a Socialist in the European Socialist Democratic tradition, and in the Socialist Democratic sense of Presidents Ricardo Lagos Escobar & Michelle Bachelet of Chile, nor in the NS Socialist Democratic sense.

But it is wrong to be a Socialist Dictator for life in the sense of Fidel Castro, who passes power for life to his brother Raul, in a one political party state where other economic, political and social views are not allowed.

Let see if I understand you correctly, So you would like to live in a Socialist Cuba, where other Cuban Citizens diffrent economic, political and social views are not allowed by its government because Cuba is a Democratic Socialist Nation.

Perhaps this new Cuba could be run by great and 'democratic' Miami men like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Posada_Carriles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Carmona

Why on earth, when Cuba has perfected their majoritarian socialist state, and is on eave of making it untouchable, should they accept immigrants from that crime-ridden den of drug-dealers, anti-social criminals and gangs? Cuba has struggled for over 50 years to be free of foreign imperialist capital and it's cronies. Cuba has freedom of the press, private ownership of media is illegal and papers are distributed state money proportionate to the number of people their mass organization represents. Cuba has democracy, they elect all their representatives in the congress, and even at devolved local levels they have elections.

Once again, AP does not provide a link to what is quoted.

Let see if I understand you correctly, So you would like to live in a Socialist Cuba, where other Cuban Citizens diffrent economic, political and social views are not allowed by its government because Cuba is a Democratic Socialist Nation.

That is pretty much it.

Raul Again offers an olive branch to the USA, and A
Cuban love story of prison, seperation and reunion,
articles follows my coments.

While President Bush reacted in a negetive way to President Raul's offer of talks, President Bush 's adminstraton has only a few months left in office anyways, Cuban Municipal elections which form the base to choose Provincial and National Assembly candidates have already been chosen in a one political party state where the results of the elections are obvious.

Still I think President Bush should have offered something along the lines I suggested to see what kind of reactions President Raul would have with this US President and the next future President.

That said, I think the White House response was also appropriate,
''The only real dialogue that's needed is with the Cuban people,'' U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington, according to The Associated Press.

As for the so-called embargo hurting Cuba so much,
Cuba trades with Canada, the EU Nations, Latin American Nations,
China and others, even buys agricultural products from the USA on a Cod Basis, and millions of Cubans receive and depend directly and indirectly on Cuban American family remittances $.

Posted on Fri, Jul. 27, 2007reprint or license print email Digg it del.icio.us CUBA
Raúl again offers 'olive branch' to U.S.
At the annual July 26 anniversary celebration to mark the start of the Cuban Revolution, interim leader Raúl Castro again called for dialogue with the U.S.
BY FRANCES ROBLES
frobles@MiamiHerald.com

Javier Galeano / AP Photo
Cuba's acting President Raul Castro holds up a Cuban flag during a ceremony to mark the 54th anniversary of the Revolution in Camaguey, Cuba, Thursday, July 26, 2007.
» More Photos
Slide show | History stands still in Cuba
Video | Raúl Castro's speech at July 26 rally
Opinion | Speak up online: The end of Castro era
More Cuba news
El Nuevo Herald | Videos on Cuba (Spanish)
El Nuevo Herald | Author contradicts The Moncada historic account (Spanish)
Slide show | Pinar del Rio carnival, El Nuevo Herald (Spanish)
In Raúl Castro's most important speech since he replaced ailing brother Fidel, the interim Cuban leader Thursday bluntly admitted during the island's July 26 celebrations that Cuba faces myriad problems and little hope of quick fixes.

Castro, 76, told the tens of thousands convened in the eastern city of Camagüey that while salaries and food production are too low, inefficiency and prices are way too high. He added that Cuba's days of inefficiency, graft and dependence on foreign imports must come to an end.

Castro, also for the third time, called for a dialogue with Washington and made only passing mention of Fidel -- whose absence at the ceremony marking the 54th anniversary of the start of the Cuban Revolution reinforced the belief that Fidel will not return to active rule after his emergency surgery for intestinal bleeding last July.

The flag-waving crowds chanted ''¡Ra-úl! Ra-úl!,'' underscoring that an era had ended, and a new one begun.

Castro started his hour-long speech much as his brother would have: with attacks on the United States. He blasted the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba and the lack of visas issued to Cuban migrants, said Cuba's military was readier than ever for any U.S. intervention and held out hope that the next U.S. presidential elections will lead to better relations.

`FAILED POLICY'

''Whatever new administration emerges will have to decide if it will maintain the absurd, illegal and failed policy toward Cuba, or if it will accept the olive branch that we extended,'' he said. ``If the new U.S. authorities finally put aside their arrogance and decide to talk in a civilized manner, they're welcome. If not, we are willing to continue confronting their policy of hostility, even for another 50 years, if that becomes necessary.''

The Bush administration quickly dismissed Castro's offer of talks, as it has done after Castro's two previous offers.

''The only real dialogue that's needed is with the Cuban people,'' U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in Washington, according to The Associated Press. ``If the Cuban people were able to express their opinion on the question of whether or not they would like to freely choose their leaders, the answer would be yes.

``Unfortunately that's not a dialogue that is taking place in Cuba at the moment.''

July 26 marks the anniversary of Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada army barracks in Santiago in 1953. It is commemorated each year as the start of the revolution.

It was long a signature affair for Fidel, who used it to launch hours-long rants on the evils of imperialism. His last public appearance was at last year's twin celebrations in the eastern cities of Bayamo and Holguín. Five days later, he announced he had undergone surgery and ceded power to Raúl.

FRAIL

Although he has not been seen in public since, the nearly 81-year-old Fidel has appeared somewhat recovered in recent photos and videos, though still too frail to return to full-time work.

''If he didn't come today, he's never coming,'' dissident journalist Ahmed Rodríguez said by telephone from Havana. ``The entire country was expecting Fidel today. You can't create a nation around the image of one man -- Fidel -- and then after 47 years send in his brother.''

The speech was a critical one for Raúl Castro, who has spent the past 12 months avoiding the limelight.

Andy Gómez, a senior fellow at the University of Miami's Institute for Cuban and Cuban American Studies, said Castro blew the chance to lay out his domestic strategy: ``It lacked vision, it lacked leadership and lacked any sense of direction where the Cuban Revolution will continue with him at the helm.''

But Baruch College Latin American studies professor Ted Henken, who travels often to Cuba, said he was ``in general . . . impressed with Raúl's confidence, sense of humor and energy. . . . He spent an inordinate amount of time talking about milk production, but did so with humor and data.''

And the data is daunting.

Cuba will spend some $340 million to import powdered milk next year, up from $105 million three years ago, Castro said -- one of the food items that should be produced in Cuba ``with tractors or oxen.''

Henken noted that ``He is almost openly calling for renovation and reform within the socialist system.''

Miami Herald translator Renato Pérez contributed to this report.



A Cuban love story of prison, separation and reunion
BY ANA VECIANA-SUAREZ
aveciana@MiamiHerald.com

DONNA E. NATALE PLANAS / MIAMI HERALD STAFF
Lino Fernandez, a former political prisoner, and his wife, Emilia Fernandez, were separated from their three children for almost 20 years when Emilia decided to stay in Cuba to watch over her husband in jail. Her children were raised by her parents here in Miami. They were reunited in 1979.
» More Photos
On the Web | Excerpts of the book at Kay Abella's website
IF YOU GO

What: Presentation of Fighting Castro: A Love Story

Where: Books & Books, 265 Aragon Ave., Coral Gables

When: 8 p.m. Sept. 5

Cost: Free
Imagine this: Your husband, a young psychiatrist, is imprisoned by Fidel Castro as a resistance leader. Your three children -- all under 3 -- hold the promise of freedom in the United States.

What do you do? Abandon your husband on the island and raise your kids in Miami? Or stay in Cuba to help your husband survive and send your children away with your parents?

This heart-wrenching choice is at the crux of a new book about a real-life couple, Emy and Lino Fernandez. Published this year, Fighting Castro: A Love Story (WingSpan, $18) tells the harrowing tale of how one man survived 17 years as a political prisoner in Cuba and how one woman lived with the difficult decision she made when she was only 23.

''It is their love story,'' says author Kay Abella, a former journalist who lives in Connecticut, ''but it's also a story of their love for their country'' and their willingness to sacrifice to oppose the Castro government.

And the story has a happy ending.

Emy, 69, and Lino, 76, live in Coral Gables. He still practices, with his younger daughter, while Emy tends to the house and the parade of relatives who visit for coffee and hugs. Their children are grown now, with children of their own. A great-grandchild is due in the fall. One would expect that all is well that ends well.

But when the Fernandezes talk about those years, about the cruelty of prison and the anguish of separation, the emotion -- and tension -- remain palpable. Emy's eyes water. She escapes to the kitchen for a drink of water. When she returns, Lino reaches out to pat her hand.

Emy's decision to stay in Cuba to tend to her husband is best described in one paragraph after she sees her parents and three kids off at the airport: ``She had to let go. They were with people who loved them -- safe and free. They were in her heart; they could not be in her life. Her life would center on Lino, on his survival.''

Until they began collaborating with Abella on the book in 2000, the past was . . . well, past. The Fernandezes rarely spoke about the decision Emy had made and the suffering Lino had endured. When the couple arrived in Miami in 1979 as part of a general amnesty granted by the Cuban government, Lino wanted to make up for lost time and rushed through his medical license revalidation. Emy took a job as a secretary to make ends meet.

''When we came, we had to remake our lives,'' Emy explains. ``We were busy reacquainting ourselves with the children.''

PAINFUL MEMORIES

But interviews for the book forced the painful memories out. ''A lot of things came out that we had never talked about,'' Emy says. ``It was like reliving what we had left behind.''

During the seven years of research and interviews, Lino worried that ''the real story'' would be lost in the telling. ''This is not just an emotional story,'' he explains. ``I am part of a larger story.''

And he is right. Abella skillfully manages to weave the tale of a young family with a panoramic view of the last 45 years of Cuban history. She recognized that sometimes the best way to recreate the past is through the eyes of an individual.

''You can take this story and put it in East Germany, and it would still be a great story about a couple determined to survive,'' Abella says. ``This is about the Cuban revolution and what it has done to families, but it's also about endurance and steadfastness.''

Lino and Emy met when she was 16 and he was in medical school. They married in 1958, when he was 27 and she 20. Children arrived soon after.

But so did politics. Fed up with the increasingly totalitarian government, Lino became second in command to the anti-Castro Movement to Recuperate the Revolution, or the MRR. Emy helped him in the underground. Captured in February 1961, he was sentenced to 30 years.

While her husband was in the Isla de Pinos prison, Emy had to make a decision that would forever alter not only her life, but also the lives of her children and her parents, who were already raising Emy's three younger brothers. ''She was really the one who suffered most,'' Lino now says. ``I was in prison, living a reduced life. She made that tough decision alone.''

WHEN LOVE COUNTS

But, he admits, ''knowing that she loved me in this way'' helped him endure isolation, meager food rations, scarce medical care, swarms of bedbugs, dirty drinking water and psychological torture that included, among other things, sporadic family visits. He was luckier than others, however, because as a doctor he was not forced into the work gangs and instead helped in a clinic for a while.

In one May 1967 letter smuggled from La Cabana prison, where he was moved after Isla de Pinos prison closed, he wrote in minuscule letters: `I told you I was reasonably well, but after reading your letter it is so different. I cannot live without you. I have had you every instant inside me, very deeply inside me. I am not worried, but I am dying to see you. The only thing that hurts is not being able to embrace you.''

Now, in the comfort of his Coral Gables home, he laughingly points to the stack of mail, particularly those he received in prison, signed ''Siempre, Emy'' -- ``Always, Emy.''

''Over the years, I realized it was a real expression, not just something to sign a letter with,'' he says.

During those 17 long years, Emy lived with different friends. Her experience was not uncommon; many Cuban families were separated because the government would allow some members to leave and would force others to stay. Some wives sent their children to relatives and waited for their imprisoned husbands. Others had fled the island with their kids.

For Emy, any news from the children -- in letters or through friends and the rare phone call -- was savored for months. One time a diplomat's daughter was able to bring Emy a construction paper drawing of three cats: ''De tus tres gatitos. Te amamos.'' From your three little kittens. We love you.'' A friend who lived in Colombia would also send her information after visiting Miami.

Knowing her children were growing up without her was ''very painful,'' but she said she also knew that ``they were having a normal childhood, not afraid or hidden away.''

In Miami, Emilia Maria, Lino Jr. and Lucia skinned knees, graduated school, discovered love. The letters from Cuba were treasured, but ''we always wondered why they weren't here, why my mother couldn't come with us,'' says Emilia Maria, now 48. ``It was a hard way to grow up.''

They had no memories of Cuba, nor of their young parents, because Emilia Maria, the eldest, was 2 ½ when she left Cuba. But their grandparents, extended family and friends kept their parents alive through stories.

`LIKE HEROES'

''They were like heroes to us,'' says Lucia Fernandez-Silveira, who was only 6 months old when she left Cuba. ``Everybody spoke of them so highly.''

What's more, the children knew others who were in the same situation. But, admits Fernandez-Silveira, every day she would ask herself why her mother had chosen as she had. She says she doesn't know if she could have done the same.

''Their absence was like a presence in our childhood,'' she adds. `It's a pain you carry with you because of all the things you missed out on.''

When they returned, it took many months for the family to bond again. ''We would automatically go to my grandparents to ask for something because that's what we had always done,'' recalls Emilia Maria. 'But my grandparents were very smart. They would tell us, `Go ask your mother.' ''

Lucia remembers a few clashes. Her parents, she said, were still living in the 1950s. They were aghast at ''the liberties we had, especially the girls.'' But they acclimated quickly. ''They worked real hard at it and were always there. It was like they were making up for lost time,'' Lucia adds.

Now the book has provided the Fernandez children with details of their parents' lives that supplemented the stories their grandparents told them. Emilia Maria says. ``Theirs is a great love story.'


Please Note, This is a serious proposal suggestion.

From the USA to Cuba, the President of the USA
whoever he or she is, now in the short term future,
this includes President Bush, Will work with both
Democrats and Republicans in congress to
establish these relations with the Government of Cuba.

1. Scrap the wet foot, dry foot policy.

2. Scrap the Cuban Adjustment Act.

3. Scrap the Cuban American family Visit limits.

4. Allow Cuban American family remittances $ to
thier family and friends , which already exsists.

5. Meet the minimum 20,000 immigration Visas, mutually agreed.

6. Allwow American tourists to visit Cuba.

7. Allow American Loans and Credits.

8, Establish full Economic Trade, as mutually agreed.

9. Establish social relations, that means allow
American private social aid organizations to Cuba.

From Cuba to the USA

1. Allow Cuban Americans to visit thier family & Friends in Cuba,
similar to # 3 above, which already exsists.

2. Allow Cuban Citizens to visit thier Cuban American
family and friends in the USA, which already exsists.

3. Meet the minimum 20,000 emigration Visas, mutually agreed.

4. Establish full Economic Trade, as mutually agreed.

5. Release all political prisoners in Cuba not exile,
who have not commited any physical crimes.

6. Allow Cuban political dissidents to form legal political partys.

7. Allow multy party elections to the Municipal, Provincial and
National Assembly governments in the upcoming Democratic
Cuban elections.

8. Allow acces to the government media at least for the time
of those multy party elections.

9. Allow internationally monitored elections.

As for Cuban Economic Reforms that is up to President Raul
and the Cuban National Assembly as elected
by the Cuban People in multy party elections where all
diffrent economic, political and social views be represented.

Note that I do not include reforming the CDR S',
Committees for the Defense of the Revolution,
as such organization acts as a security and
social organization, if 5, 6, 7, and 8 USA to Cuba
suggestions on the list are adopted by the
Cuban government of President Raul the CDR
still continues to act as a general security organization.

Please Note This is a serious proposal suggestion.

The poll options suck.

That said, I think it's pretty funny that we hear on one hand that "Cuba is doing quite well despite the embargo, due to its great implementation of socialism, and the people love living there and the standard of living is good, and the medical system is the best" while on the other hand, usually from the same people, we hear that "the embargo is crippling and hurts Cuba and is just more evil stuff from the US".

Hmm. Which one is it? Does the embargo and lack of relations between the US and Cuba really hurt either one? I think not. Over the years, Cuba has adapted, and so has the US. So fuck it.

Oh, and I don't think that the people of Cuba are all that fucking happy. Otherwise, they wouldn't want to run:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6920955.stm

Cuban athletes have made a hurried departure from the Pan-American games in Brazil, apparently amid fears of possible mass defections.

The delegation was rushed at short notice to Rio de Janeiro's airport, leaving the men's volleyball team no time to collect their bronze medals.

The athletes were said to have been ordered to leave the games before the finishing ceremony on Sunday.

It follows the defection of four Cuban athletes earlier in the tournament.

I think the Cuban people have a right to be angry at the arrogant and patronizing way the US deals with it, as if it's talking over there heads and it knows best. If I were Raul I would give the US the figurative finger.

I think the Cuban people have a right to be angry at the arrogant and patronizing way the US deals with it, as if it's talking over there heads and it knows best. If I were Raul I would give the US the figurative finger.

Just like the Cuban people have a right to be angry at the elitist government who cracks down on dissidents by throwing them in jail for daring to disagree with the party line.

Just like the Cuban people have a right to be angry at the elitist government who cracks down on dissidents by throwing them in jail for daring to disagree with the party line.

You're right. There is some awful abuse of prisoners on the island of Cuba. I hear there is even a gulag-style prison camp, where foreign citizens are held without being tried for indefinite periods, have dogs set on them, and are locked in cages in the baking sun. It's all pretty archaic really.

Guantanamo Bay, I think they call it. :rolleyes:

You're right. There is some awful abuse of prisoners on the island of Cuba. I hear there is even a gulag-style prison camp, where foreign citizens are held without being tried for indefinite periods, have dogs set on them, and are locked in cages in the baking sun. It's all pretty archaic really.

Guantanamo Bay, I think they call it. :rolleyes:

And this has what to do with the thread? Oh yea...nothing.

And this has what to do with the thread? Oh yea...nothing.

I assumed that the claptrap about Cuba's government being "elitist" and oppressive had a similar relevence. Complaining about the human rights regime in Cuba as some form of justification for US imperialism there needs to be put into a real perspective; it's hypocrisy.

I assumed that the claptrap about Cuba's government being "elitist" and oppressive had a similar relevence.

Considering this thread is about Cuba, it is very relevent.

Complaining about the human rights regime in Cuba as some form of justification for US imperialism there needs to be put into a real perspective; it's hypocrisy.

US Imperialism there? Funny. I did not know we are trying to take over the country and make it part of the US. Care to point out where I missed that?

Actually most of the so called 'human rights' abuses in Cuba were trumped up by the US.

Actually most of the so called 'human rights' abuses in Cuba were trumped up by the US.

Link?

Considering this thread is about Cuba, it is very relevent.

As it is, in fact, a thread about the US relationship with Cuba, my point is all the more relevent.



US Imperialism there? Funny. I did not know we are trying to take over the country and make it part of the US. Care to point out where I missed that?

Ah, such a narrow understanding of the term. If you really are so uninformed about the United States' role in Cuba, and the history behind, you needn't bother to post. It seems you've missed years of American attempts to economically crush and isolate Cuba so that it can regain its lost economic hegemony there.. and that's quite a big thing to miss, when writing in a thread about Cuba.

According to dictionary.com:

Imperialism - The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.

Rings a bell.

I think Carops agrees with Andaras prime's views.

Rings a bell.

Which, unfortunately for you, is not the case here.