NationStates Jolt Archive

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know where it came from. It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought. And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

Ummmmm ... care to support your assertions?

Your trolling is made of fail. Take lessons from Remote Observer.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know where it came from. It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought. And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

Whatever you say, honky. :p

Your racial slurs aside, I'm not even white. Multiculturalism is an insult to all Americans of foreign origin. All it provides for is the cultural degradation of nationstates and making it much harder for immigrants who actually attempt to assimilate. If you don't want to adopt a culture of another nation, it's damn simple to not. Just don't immigrate there.

The melting pot has been replaced by the Bento. Where separate cultures "co-exist" by being entirely separate and maintaining no contact or involvement. Multiculturalism victimizes immigrants by making it far harder to integrate into society. If you are from a different culture, you are separate from the rest of society. End of story. There is no damn way around it. Multiculturalism only contributes to the alienation of immigrants from the rest of society by persuading them against it by making it socially unacceptable to assimilate. Worst of all, it makes it harder for native-born Americans to accept immigrants as their fellows because of the stigma against assimilation. It seems no matter what you do, nobody will think of you as American, immigrant or native.

immigration is not the problem. undercooked meat is the problem.

immigration is not the problem. undercooked meat is the problem.

I suspected as much.

Your racial slurs aside, I'm not even white. Multiculturalism is an insult to all Americans of foreign origin. All it provides for is the cultural degradation of nationstates and making it much harder for immigrants who actually attempt to assimilate. If you don't want to adopt a culture of another nation, it's damn simple to not. Just don't immigrate there.

The melting pot has been replaced by the Bento. Where separate cultures "co-exist" by being entirely separate and maintaining no contact or involvement. Multiculturalism victimizes immigrants by making it far harder to integrate into society. If you are from a different culture, you are separate from the rest of society. End of story. There is no damn way around it. Multiculturalism only contributes to the alienation of immigrants from the rest of society by persuading them against it by making it socially unacceptable to assimilate. Worst of all, it makes it harder for native-born Americans to accept immigrants as their fellows because of the stigma against assimilation. It seems no matter what you do, nobody will think of you as American, immigrant or native.

Well, if anybody thinks like that, that's their problem. I'm native born, and I know this guy from Russia who moved here, I got no problem with him.

Your racial slurs aside, I'm not even white. Multiculturalism is an insult to all Americans of foreign origin. All it provides for is the cultural degradation of nationstates and making it much harder for immigrants who actually attempt to assimilate. If you don't want to adopt a culture of another nation, it's damn simple to not. Just don't immigrate there.

The melting pot has been replaced by the Bento. Where separate cultures "co-exist" by being entirely separate and maintaining no contact or involvement. Multiculturalism victimizes immigrants by making it far harder to integrate into society. If you are from a different culture, you are separate from the rest of society. End of story. There is no damn way around it. Multiculturalism only contributes to the alienation of immigrants from the rest of society by persuading them against it by making it socially unacceptable to assimilate. Worst of all, it makes it harder for native-born Americans to accept immigrants as their fellows because of the stigma against assimilation. It seems no matter what you do, nobody will think of you as American, immigrant or native.

But part of the joy of the melting pot is that everyone becomes American, while still holding on to your immigrant roots. Witness Holland, MI - a very American town that celebrates it's Dutch origins. Or, hell, my maternal grandmother - Born and raised in York and Cambridgeshire, emigrated and has been an American for nearly sixty years. But she still makes a great pot of tea and a mean Yorkshire pudding. Assimilation doesn't mean letting go of you roots, it means adding to them, for future generations.

Your racial slurs aside, I'm not even white. Multiculturalism is an insult to all Americans of foreign origin. All it provides for is the cultural degradation of nationstates and making it much harder for immigrants who actually attempt to assimilate. If you don't want to adopt a culture of another nation, it's damn simple to not. Just don't immigrate there.

The melting pot has been replaced by the Bento. Where separate cultures "co-exist" by being entirely separate and maintaining no contact or involvement. Multiculturalism victimizes immigrants by making it far harder to integrate into society. If you are from a different culture, you are separate from the rest of society. End of story. There is no damn way around it. Multiculturalism only contributes to the alienation of immigrants from the rest of society by persuading them against it by making it socially unacceptable to assimilate. Worst of all, it makes it harder for native-born Americans to accept immigrants as their fellows because of the stigma against assimilation. It seems no matter what you do, nobody will think of you as American, immigrant or native.

I love when people act like this is some thing that suddenly started happening. Pockets of immigrants have existed as long as there have been immigrants. In order to claim this is some new liberal phenomena you have to be completely ignorant of the past.

Multiculturalism only becomes a problem when mixed with PC maniacs, IMO. Coming from a very culturally diverse area, I have no problem with multiculturalism. I think it's what keeps North America from becoming a wasteland of fastfood burger restraunts and reality tv shows.

But part of the joy of the melting pot is that everyone becomes American, while still holding on to your immigrant roots. Witness Holland, MI - a very American town that celebrates it's Dutch origins. Or, hell, my maternal grandmother - Born and raised in York and Cambridgeshire, emigrated and has been an American for nearly sixty years. But she still makes a great pot of tea and a mean Yorkshire pudding. Assimilation doesn't mean letting go of you roots, it means adding to them, for future generations.

And let's not forget these people. All the craziness about immigrants now was directed at them, once. Now, they're as American as apple pie, without losing their heritage.

http://i.pbase.com/o4/54/682954/1/63585536.tUGLnNRu.StPatsDay042.jpg

But part of the joy of the melting pot is that everyone becomes American, while still holding on to your immigrant roots. Witness Holland, MI - a very American town that celebrates it's Dutch origins. Or, hell, my maternal grandmother - Born and raised in York and Cambridgeshire, emigrated and has been an American for nearly sixty years. But she still makes a great pot of tea and a mean Yorkshire pudding. Assimilation doesn't mean letting go of you roots, it means adding to them, for future generations.

Of course I don't have anything against people celebrating their roots or what not. There's absolutely nothing wrong against it. What I do have a problem with is when people blatantly refuse to learn English, refuse to associate with people outside of their ethnic group, and worst of all, refuse to label themselves as American at all. There's a HUGE difference between these two.

Of course I don't have anything against people celebrating their roots or what not. There's absolutely nothing wrong against it. What I do have a problem with is when people blatantly refuse to learn English, refuse to associate with people outside of their ethnic group, and worst of all, refuse to label themselves as American. There's a HUGE difference between these two.

Why is it they have to learn English? Cuz it's the official language?

When did Americans become so lazy. "If people don't all speak in tiny little English words and there isn't a McDonald's and a Starbucks on every corner I get confused. My brain isn't used to thinking and learning about things outside of my comfort zone."

You know what would fix the problem? If people who didn't want to act like the people already living in the places they move to would just slaughter everyone not like them by the millions. Because we all know the founders were all about the new people adopting the culture of the people already there.

Why is it they have to learn English? Cuz it's the official language?

When did Americans become so lazy. "If people don't all speak in tiny little English words and there isn't a McDonald's and a Starbucks on every corner I get confused. My brain isn't used to thinking and learning about things outside of my comfort zone."

English is the de facto official language. Almost everyone in the USA speaks it. If you don't learn to speak English, you simply cannot integrate into the rest of the USA. It's for EVERYONES benefit that an immigrant learn English. How the hell do you expect to get around in a country if you can't even speak the language?

English is the de facto official language. Almost everyone in the USA speaks it. If you don't learn to speak English, you simply cannot integrate into the rest of the USA. It's for EVERYONES benefit that an immigrant learn English. How the hell do you expect to get around in a country if you can't even speak the language?

So why don't you volunteer to teach poor, underprivileged immigrants English if it matters to you so?

Practically none of these people don't learn English because they don't want to. They don't learn because they can't.

People need to understand if we can't live with (aka next to) each other, we will all end up killing each other off and destroying roots rather than changing or building them.

Raw meat is also a killer...

And let's not forget these people. All the craziness about immigrants now was directed at them, once. Now, they're as American as apple pie, without losing their heritage.

http://i.pbase.com/o4/54/682954/1/63585536.tUGLnNRu.StPatsDay042.jpg

The link doesn't work, but I can assume it's the Irish. Anyways, I agree. That's the beauty of the melting pot. The problem is, the Irish came to America in a time when multiculturalism was not as rampant as it is today. And unsurprisingly, Irish-Americans are extremely well adjusted and integrated into American society. This wouldn't have happened if the Irish cut themselves off from the rest of society.

English is the de facto official language.

No, it is not. It was intentional that there is not an official language. The UNITED States was essentially intended to be one country that incorporates a bunch of other smaller countries much like the EU. Speaking a single language is convenient, but it wasn't an oversight that an official language was declared.

Almost everyone in the USA speaks it. If you don't learn to speak English, you simply cannot integrate into the rest of the USA. It's for EVERYONES benefit that an immigrant learn English. How the hell do you expect to get around in a country if you can't even speak the language?

You've already explained exactly how they get around without learning the language. And people have been doing it since the origin of this country. You're rant ignores history and is founded on fearmongering and absurdity. Pockets of immigrants have been here for 600 years and the country and the immigrants have done very well.

There are many places in the US where knowing English will not help you one bit. You can't order gum in places in Chicago if you only know English.

The link doesn't work, but I can assume it's the Irish. Anyways, I agree. That's the beauty of the melting pot. The problem is, the Irish came to America in a time when multiculturalism was not as rampant as it is today. And unsurprisingly, Irish-Americans are extremely well adjusted and integrated into American society. This wouldn't have happened if the Irish cut themselves off from the rest of society.

Again, this is completely ignorant of history. At the time when there were mass Irish imigrations the first and second generation Irish tended to live in pockets. Germans, Greeks, Polish people, Chinese, various scandanavian groups. Hell, my family when they immigrated went to places being settled by only people from their region of the world. A pocket in a city wasn't good enough for them. They needed their own area of the country.

So why don't you volunteer to teach poor, underprivileged immigrants English if it matters to you so?

Practically none of these people don't learn English because they don't want to. They don't learn because they can't.

I don't live near any poor, underprivileged immigrants. All the immigrants I know are ridiculously affluent, likely because I live in an affluent version of an ethnic ghetto.

Of course, I'm only speaking about the immigrants I know, I can't speak for immigrants everywhere. But I can tell you clearly that multiculturalism has wrought horrible things. I know people who make 6-figure incomes by running businesses that cater exclusively to members of the same race because they refuse to learn English. My parents are absolutely shameful. They openly discouraged my education in English and flatly refused. I ignored them completely. They flatly forbade me from associating with anybody not from their racial group. I flatly ignored them again. They're going back to the homeland in a few years and I'm not going with them. I like it here better.

No, it is not. It was intentional that there is not an official language. The UNITED States was essentially intended to be one country that incorporates a bunch of other smaller countries much like the EU. Speaking a single language is convenient, but it wasn't an oversight that an official language was declared.

Most individuals states have English as the sole official language, with a few that have both Spanish and English as official languages. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it a good thing to make it socially acceptable.

Multiculturalism is the radical new idea of tolerating other peoples and cultures, instead of oppressing and/or exterminating them.

Flat out wrong. It's absolutely ridiculously and idiotic to compare the melting pot to extermination and oppression.

Of course I don't have anything against people celebrating their roots or what not. There's absolutely nothing wrong against it. What I do have a problem with is when people blatantly refuse to learn English, refuse to associate with people outside of their ethnic group, and worst of all, refuse to label themselves as American at all. There's a HUGE difference between these two.

Please, elucidate to me who is doing this. If you're referring to Latino immigrants, nearly every one of those I've met has been working hard to both learn English and earn enough money to live. Yes, many of them spoke Spanish amongst themselves, but every time I approached a Latino immigrant in Denver to ask a question, they tried their damnedest to answer it. In English.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know where it came from.

Multiculturalism is the radical new idea of tolerating other peoples and cultures, instead of oppressing and/or exterminating them.

Pretty wacko, I know.

It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought.

Those same years of "western" thought lead to the Holocaust, fascism, two world wars.

But I guess it's automatically good anyway?

And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

Flat-out wrong. The problem is people like you who want others to "assimilate" into your "culture."

Oh that's funny. Your OP praised "two hundred years of Western thought." But now you're saying that the length of time something (i.e, Western thought) has existed doesn't make it good.

Western thought is not better because its been along longer because...it hasn't. Western thought is better because Western thought corresponds to our beliefs. It's natural to draw your viewpoints and ideas of good and bad from your beliefs.

Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it a good thing to make it socially acceptable.

Oh that's funny. Your OP praised "two hundred years of Western thought." But now you're saying that the length of time something (i.e, Western thought) has existed doesn't make it good. Which is it? I guess it's good if it supports your ranting, and bad if it doesn't.

Please, elucidate to me who is doing this. If you're referring to Latino immigrants, nearly every one of those I've met has been working hard to both learn English and earn enough money to live. Yes, many of them spoke Spanish amongst themselves, but every time I approached a Latino immigrant in Denver to ask a question, they tried their damnedest to answer it. In English.

Actually, I'm not referring to Latino immigrants, my limited experience with Latino immigrants has been extremely positive. It seems Asian immigrants seem to do this more so often than not...

And that's what I see. There's nothing wrong with speaking your home language. That's fine. As long as they speak English to some extent or another...

Most individuals states have English as the sole official language, with a few that have both Spanish and English as official languages. Just because something has been around for a long time doesn't make it a good thing to make it socially acceptable.

It's always been socially acceptable. You're acting like this is a new idea. It's the exact thing we founded the country on. The melting pot takes a long time. You keep saying that this behavior will have consequences that have NOT happened. History proves you wrong. People come, hide in pockets because the change is to radical, then their children spread out, and their children do, etc. They don't stay in pockets. The pockets remain, but the peoples that come from there spread out around the country. Unless you think all the Polish in Chicago are only in the pocket of Chicago where all the signs are in Polish.

I don't live near any poor, underprivileged immigrants. All the immigrants I know are ridiculously affluent, likely because I live in an affluent version of an ethnic ghetto.

Of course, I'm only speaking about the immigrants I know, I can't speak for immigrants everywhere. But I can tell you clearly that multiculturalism has wrought horrible things. I know people who make 6-figure incomes by running businesses that cater exclusively to members of the same race because they refuse to learn English. My parents are absolutely shameful. They openly discouraged my education in English and flatly refused. I ignored them completely. They flatly forbade me from associating with anybody not from their racial group. I flatly ignored them again. They're going back to the homeland in a few years and I'm not going with them. I like it here better.

Sounds like a problem with your parents. Your parents are not representative of immigrants in general. And, again, stores have always catered to ethnic groups they way you're talking about. Again, go to any city in the country and you will find ethnic neighborhoods that have existed since the founding.

Please, elucidate to me who is doing this. If you're referring to Latino immigrants, nearly every one of those I've met has been working hard to both learn English and earn enough money to live. Yes, many of them spoke Spanish amongst themselves, but every time I approached a Latino immigrant in Denver to ask a question, they tried their damnedest to answer it. In English.

I'm not referring to Latino immigrants at all, I've never seen this with Latinos. I'm actually referring to extremely affluent Asian (predominantly East and North Asian) immigrants.

What "problem"? Seriously, you're not even trying and you're not worth an effort.

I'm not referring to Latino immigrants at all, I've never seen this with Latinos. I'm actually referring to extremely affluent Asian (predominantly East and North Asian) immigrants.

Please explain to me what exactly is the problem? They're affluent so they're not a drain. They successfully contribute to their neighborhoods and to our GDP. They educate their children. They're healthy and happy.

I'm not sure why it's so upsetting that people don't agree to be perfect little cookie cutter Americans. Or is this really about your ire for your parents behavior and you're just blaming an ideology you don't really seem to understand?

Please explain to me what exactly is the problem? They're affluent so they're not a drain. They successfully contribute to their neighborhoods and to our GDP. They educate their children. They're healthy and happy.

Not necessarily. Considering the fact that so many are somewhat stingy, no money goes into the economy (as it's not being spent), or charity (I don't need to extrapolate), or anything like that. Then considering the fact that so many are literally going back to their countries of origin and taking all of that money and affluence with them, I'd say they are the exact definition of a drain. And the happy part is also not always true as many of their children grow up in deprived social environments due to a household reluctance to associate with other ethnicities.

Western thought is not better because its been along longer because...it hasn't.

Ha! So, I guess you whined about "going against over 200 years of Western thought" for no real reason?

Or...

Western thought is better because Western thought corresponds to our beliefs.

Multiculturalism corresponds to the beliefs and policies of a good many modern democracies. Tolerance instead of persecution and "assimilation." Multiculturalism is a part, now, of "Western thought."

Just not yours.

It's natural to draw your viewpoints and ideas of good and bad from your beliefs.

Simply because it's natural doesn't make it right.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous.

Explain.

It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought.

Explain.

And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic.

Explain.

Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...

Explain.

all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

Explain.

Multiculturalism corresponds to the beliefs and policies of a good many modern democracies. Tolerance instead of persecution and "assimilation." Multiculturalism is a part, now, of "Western thought."

That is completely false, the vast majority of democracies refuse to incorporate multiculturalism such as almost all of Europe. Multiculturalism is official policy in very few democracies simply because a liberal democracy cannot be multicultural because multiculturalism is an ideology and a democracy has no official ideology.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know where it came from. It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought. And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Where separate cultures "co-exist" by being entirely separate and maintaining no contact or involvement.
You mean like skaters, punks, metalheads, hippies, hip-hoppers, rednecks, yuppies and so on?

Let's face it - "culture" is a word that's often misused. All it means is a common set of beliefs and assumptions about the world, often expressed in various cultural artifacts, like clothing.

Of course when people of different cultures come together there can be some tensions, afterall these people often act differently, have different assumptions about things and sometimes even speak very different languages. Whether the difference in culture has something to do with geography, age group or the music you listen to is not important.

So I ask you, who is so keen on assimilation: do you want out outlaw skateboarding and force all skaters to start knitting? Afterall, knitting old ladies were here first, right? And there's conflict pretty much whenever the two meet!

If I may offer a partial justification for the position being argued:

Governments do not just happen. Good governments do not just happen. Rather, societies choose which governments they accept and consider valid in no small part as a consequence of the cultural fabric they are raised in and the cultural institutions that surround them. If you look at the thoroughly egalitarian nature of the American frontier society in the 18th century: the fact that men of different social classes would shake each other's hand, the fact that they sat in the same churches, the fact that those churches prized individual interpretation of Scripture rather than rigid adherence to the claims of a superior scholar, the fact that gentlemen at a restaurant referred to the waitor of an unquestionably lower class as "sir". Each of these things suggests a thoroughly egalitarian streak in American civic life, and given that, it's not surprising Americans picked, with a relative paucity of difficulty, the most egalitarian form of mass government.

By contrast, France of the 18th century was thoroughly inegalitarian in ways that Americans today and then could scarcely fathom. Differing social classes never interacted willingly with another, groups like the Hugeonots (sp wrong, I know) were routinely persecuted for the slightest real or imagined divergence from adherence to the teachings of the Pope, and aristocrats would die before they treated the hired help with anything approaching respect. Given that, it's also not surprising that the French attempts to create an egalitarian government met with somewhat more limited success.

So, culture affects government. As Americans are often rather fond of their government in theory if not always in practice, and certainly with the notions of democracy and representative government, they therefore have an interest in maintaining the culture that makes it fruitful. Hence they have an interest in things like language, as which language you speak is one of the main cultural institutions that determines what group you belong to and what ideas you are instilled with, and immigration, or making sure that future citizens carry on the acceptance of the basic cultural premises that make democracy possible.

Now, I said partial justification, and I meant just that. Every scholarly analysis of immigrants finds that while the first generation tends to closet themselves off, the second and third generation become thoroughly integrated into society. In point of fact, by the third generation use of the English language and other important factors that seperate "them" from "us" in the first generation are virtually identical with the larger population. So immigrant-bashing is not only flat out bigotry, but its also empirically inaccurate as well.

But I don't think that the author was trying to justify bigotry. I think he was trying to make the same point, albeit in looser form, that I made above. A point, mind you, that operates as the central thesis of the foremost text on American civic life to this day: Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville. That central thesis does gainsay a lot of what multiculturalism has to say, and I think with good measure. If you were to take multiculturalism seriously, you would have to reject, for instance, the idea that there is anything substantively different between, say, a family structure wherein family relations are relatively egalitarian between husband and wife and the children are considered wards of the family until they can function as adults themselves, and a family structure wherein the wife and children are considered property of the husband. Different yes, but not unequal. The problem of course is that they are unequal in one crucial respect: one is antithetical to the ideological underpinnings of our society and government. As such, yes Virginia, we do have a right to act in ways that restrict such a system and prohibit its spread into the larger culture.

I was going to say stuff but Xenophobialand kinda said it all better.

That is completely false, the vast majority of democracies refuse to incorporate multiculturalism such as almost all of Europe. Multiculturalism is official policy in very few democracies simply because a liberal democracy cannot be multicultural because multiculturalism is an ideology and a democracy has no official ideology.

What is your definition of multiculturalism.

Of course when people of different cultures come together there can be some tensions, afterall these people often act differently, have different assumptions about things and sometimes even speak very different languages. Whether the difference in culture has something to do with geography, age group or the music you listen to is not important.


Erm... lets not kid ourselves here.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know where it came from. It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought. And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

Screw your 'two hundred years of Western thought' which you obviously mean to refer to 'North American' thought, since the other Western thought has been around much longer.

Canada and the US have been muliticultural from the very first...especially one we let you whiteys on our soil. So suck it up princess.

Erm... lets not kid ourselves here.
Where is the actual difference? How is a an Anglo-American person being annoyed by a few immigrants speaking Spanish any different than some old lady being annoyed by a bunch of skater kids speaking their particular slang?

There is no actual difference. It's just that some people think they have the right to force others to do what they want, and immigrants are a particularly easy group to target.

Where is the actual difference? How is a an Anglo-American person being annoyed by a few immigrants speaking Spanish any different than some old lady being annoyed by a bunch of skater kids speaking their particular slang?

There is no actual difference. It's just that some people think they have the right to force others to do what they want, and immigrants are a particularly easy group to target.

I think there is a difference, people don't get segregated and isolated purely on music taste or age group alone. Also, when was the last time you saw huge riots with burning cars lasting several days over whether the clash or the sex pistols were better? etc...

I'd suggest both are equally problematic; immigration not conducted selectively, only admitting those for whom thee is a genuine necessity, is nothing short of folly, whilst multiculturalism only serves to irritate those indigenous citizens who have already had a multitude of immigrants foisted upon them.

Your trolling is made of fail. Take lessons from Remote Observer.
Anything that contradicts your opinions is now trolling?

So... who is responsible for this Tartar puppet?

Anyone know? :confused:

I think there is a difference, people don't get segregated and isolated purely on music taste or age group alone.
Of course they do. Haven't you ever been to high school? And have you ever seen a grandma hang out with a bunch of metalheads?

People tend to want to hang around people who see the world the same way and share their beliefs. Of course in the case of some immigrants the language barrier adds to that, but the principle isn't changed. Do you really think that a skater from London would get along better with the head of the British Lawn Bowls Association than with a skater from Tehran?

Also, when was the last time you saw huge riots with burning cars lasting several days over whether the clash or the sex pistols were better? etc...
Well, I have seen riots about whether one football club was better than another one.

Though you somehow seem to think that the Paris riots were about immigration. They weren't - they were about young people feeling like they had no chance of a decent future and being pissed off at the police and the authorities. The percentage of immigrants in the banlieues is high (not so much because they want to live there but because they can't afford to move anywhere else) but not 100%. There were plenty of poor white kids rioting alongside.

Your racial slurs aside, I'm not even white. Multiculturalism is an insult to all Americans of foreign origin. All it provides for is the cultural degradation of nationstates and making it much harder for immigrants who actually attempt to assimilate. If you don't want to adopt a culture of another nation, it's damn simple to not. Just don't immigrate there.

The melting pot has been replaced by the Bento. Where separate cultures "co-exist" by being entirely separate and maintaining no contact or involvement. Multiculturalism victimizes immigrants by making it far harder to integrate into society. If you are from a different culture, you are separate from the rest of society. End of story. There is no damn way around it. Multiculturalism only contributes to the alienation of immigrants from the rest of society by persuading them against it by making it socially unacceptable to assimilate. Worst of all, it makes it harder for native-born Americans to accept immigrants as their fellows because of the stigma against assimilation. It seems no matter what you do, nobody will think of you as American, immigrant or native.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous. I don't even know where it came from. It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought. And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.

Exactly; I agree wholeheartedly. I couldn't have said it better myself.

But the problem I have with foreigners/immigrants is not racial, ethnic, religious, nationalistic, or cultural, as much as it is LINGUISTIC: they don't speak English fluently/intelligibly enough for me to understand their words, or if I understand the words, then I can't comprehend the message they are trying to convey to me, or if I comprehend their message, then more often than not they phrase it in such a way as if they expect me to say something in response, but, given their choice of words, I don't know how to respond, and consequently am made to feel very awkward.

immigration is not the problem. undercooked meat is the problem.

Well, THAT is also a problem.

(*five-second pause*)

Wait a minute. Who's undercooking their meat? :confused:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

But that would be inconceivable!

The link doesn't work, but I can assume it's the Irish. Anyways, I agree. That's the beauty of the melting pot. The problem is, the Irish came to America in a time when multiculturalism was not as rampant as it is today. And unsurprisingly, Irish-Americans are extremely well adjusted and integrated into American society. This wouldn't have happened if the Irish cut themselves off from the rest of society.

Please tell me you don't think the Irish had an easy time of it. Yes, the Irish are extremely well adjusted an integrated into American society, but they are still distinctly Irish. They haven't been melted into the pot, and probably never will. If anything, with the near universal celebration of St. Patrick's Day and general acceptance of trappings of Irish culture, the pot melted into them.

If anything, with the near universal celebration of St. Patrick's Day and general acceptance of trappings of Irish culture, the pot melted into them.

That's kinda the same thing.

The entire POINT of the melting pot analogy is to show that if you put something in a melting pot, the entire pot will change. If you put onions into beef soup, don't expect the soup to taste exactly the same. Irish-Americans do hold onto their roots, but they're still more American than Irish. The difference between an Irish-American, German-American, and Polish-American are highly superficial because all three are far more American than Irish, German, or Polish. It's symbolic ethnicity, and there's nothing wrong with symbolic ethnicity. Saying the Irish never melted into the pot is ridiculous. Irish-Americans are mostly indistinguishable from most Americans, symbolic ethnicity aside. For all intents and purposes, they are American.

Speaking of different cultures, I think Chinese culture is great, especially their language when sung (March of the Volunteers) is quite beautiful and uplifting, I also like that comradery type culture that emerged in the civil war with the communists etc.

That is completely false, the vast majority of democracies refuse to incorporate multiculturalism such as almost all of Europe.

Nonsense.

Multiculturalism is official policy in very few democracies simply because a liberal democracy cannot be multicultural because multiculturalism is an ideology and a democracy has no official ideology.

Hogwash.

Seriously, read what you just wrote. "A democracy has no official ideology." Democracy IS an ideology. It encompasses many facets. Multiculturalism - tolerance of different cultures - is just one of them.

Immigration isn't the problem. It never has been. Illegal immigration is the problem. Legal immigrants in my experience tend to try to integrate into society. And they at least try to talk in English in public. (what they do in their private lives is their own business). Illegal immigrants try to drain our society more often then not(over 80%), and they tend to keep to their own language...most refuse to speak anything else. Imagine you're a cashier for a moment and some no-speak-English person comes up to buy something from you. Unless you can actually speak their language...you usually have to turn on your little light and wait for someone who can to come an help them. Or worse your in a small store and there is no one who can. Just a small sample of the problem.

Note before I said "integrate" which is decidedly different then "assimilate". At least as I understand it. Assimilate pretty much means to conform to the ideals, philosophy's and beliefs of someone else. Integrate is more like staying your own person and culture but still being able to interact with others in a friendly manner.

As far as I'm concerned LET THEM IMMIGRATE. Just as long as they do so legally. And are at least willing to TRY to learn English. In fact I'm very Pro-immigration. Where would America be without immigrants? Oh wait....it wouldn't.

Illegal immigrants on the other hand. Are no different than invasion. And should be treated as such. Our government is just filled with cowards. If I was a governor I'd be paying people $10 a pop. Cheaper than shipping them back if you ask me.

Immigration isn't the problem. Multiculturalism isn't the problem. Racist bigots are the problem.

Well, being a true immigrant, born and raised in Mexico, I know that the Melting Pot analogy is correct. Yes, I was born and raised in somewhere different, but I still consider myself very American.

And as others have said before me, it's not the immigrants, but the people who wish not to accept the immigrants, the racist, that produce the problem. They believe that the Melting Pot does not need more "ingredients". They think that it is fine the way it is. Sure, you can see it that way, but there is always something that you can add that makes it better than it was originally.

The concept of multiculturalism is absolutely ridiculous.That's no way to begin a serious argument. Tsk.

I don't even know where it came from.And what point, exactly, did you hope to convey by calling attention to your own ignorance?

It goes against the very concept of more than two hundred years of Western thought.The "very concept"? I'd like to know what that is. Certainly there are significant strains of modern thought antagonistic toward multiculturalism, but surely an emphasis on "liberty" has been a powerful influence as well?

So now you know where it comes from: it derives from the value accorded to liberty in modern society. To value liberty is to allow other people to live their own lives, to make their own decisions, to determine how to identify themselves culturally. Multiculturalism is the natural result of a strong belief in liberty.

And worst of all, it makes immigration extremely problematic. Illegal immigration wouldn't be a problem if not for multiculturalism, because more Americans won't do anything negative...all it does is encourage more tension between natives and immigrants.Well, you're right that there's a trade-off.

Anyone who has thought seriously about the meaning of liberty has realized that it comes with certain pitfalls: when you let people control their own lives, sometimes they make mistakes; sometimes they make very destructive and horrible mistakes. Who wouldn't want to help them, to set things right, to make sure everyone gets along?

We want that. We want people to learn to get along. But we cannot justify forcing innocent people to conform with the majority simply to avoid conflict. We can hope that people mature, that multicultural societies eventually settle their tensions. And we can work in many ways toward furthering that goal.

The one thing we won't do is force that to happen by turning to totalitarianism.

Why worry about multiculturalism in the first place? American pop-cultural Imperialism will assimilate the entire species soon enough. Thankfully I should be long dead by then.