NationStates Jolt Archive

Or, life imitates art...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightwatch_(Babylon_5)

In the Babylon 5 science fiction universe, Nightwatch was a paramilitary organization set up during the Presidency of Morgan Clark. Like the Gestapo of Nazi Germany, Nightwatch became the secret police organization of Clark's New Order.

Nightwatch began by offering extra credits to various people to be their eyes and ears (See: In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum). Because of this, Babylon 5 security officer Zack Allan decided to join Nightwatch. He was in it for the extra money, but soon became more and more disturbed over the course of events, and the escalation of Nightwatch's activities. Zack became increasingly worried about the erosion of civil liberties that was happening with Nightwatch around.

And now, the FBI...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/07/fbi-proposes-bu.html

he FBI is taking cues from the CIA to recruit thousands of covert informants in the United States as part of a sprawling effort to boost its intelligence capabilities.

According to a recent unclassified report to Congress, the FBI expects its informants to provide secrets about possible terrorists and foreign spies, although some may also be expected to aid with criminal investigations, in the tradition of law enforcement confidential informants. The FBI did not respond to requests for comment on this story.

more...

To handle the increase in so-called human sources, the FBI also plans to overhaul its database system, so it can manage records and verify the accuracy of information from "more than 15,000" informants, according to the document. While many of the recruited informants will apparently be U.S. residents, some informants may be overseas, recruited by FBI agents in foreign offices, the report indicates.

So, why tap their phones illegally when you can just pay people to inform on them...

Heh!

It's like the Stasi!

Heh!

It's like the Stasi!

The question is, is this actually unconstitutional under US law?

Something tells me that paying people to be informants isn't illegal in a general sense.

It might ruin their credibility as witnesses in court (but then again, they use paid informants in regular criminal trials on occasion).

Anytime you create a system like this yuo start to set up an "us vs them" mentality and that's NEVER a good thing.

So the US is getting a secret police? Where is the outrage. Oh that's right, dogfighting. :rolleyes:

So the US is getting a secret police? Where is the outrage. Oh that's right, dogfighting. :rolleyes:That would probably be because we expect crap like that from our government. So we just think "There they go again."

So, why tap their phones illegally when you can just pay people to inform on them...

Point to me the bit where it says these informants will be paid, would you? I may just have gone selectively blind.

The Fascists that run this country must be getting desperate, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. This actually means that the Neo-Con Fascists are losing.

Point to me the bit where it says these informants will be paid, would you? I may just have gone selectively blind.

Traditionally, informants (such as police informants in the US) are paid some small sum of cash for information.

Considering that they want to start with 22 million to spend on the project (which includes a database, but that's not going to cost 22 million), they're going to be greasing some palms.

This site will probably get a lot of use then...

http://www.whosarat.com/index.php

Nightwatch is already happening on the local level in an appropriate form, it is called Neighborhood Watch which is perfectly fine with me. The problem is when it ceases being a crime fighting function and becomes a function of pure political control.

Considering that they want to start with 22 million to spend on the project (which includes a database, but that's not going to cost 22 million), they're going to be greasing some palms.

If you think a government agency can't spend 22 million dollars on a database, then you have obviously never been involved with government work.

Considering that they want to start with 22 million to spend on the project (which includes a database, but that's not going to cost 22 million),
I think you should ask which ever split personality of yours was a government contractor before you start spouting off about what things in government do and do not cost.

I thought this was going to be about that Russian movie...

I thought this was going to be about that Russian movie...
Nah, it's much more like Leben der Anderen.

Heh!

It's like the Stasi!

Or the StB, the GeStaPo, the KGB, the romanian Securitate...

Well, if it isn't anticonstitutional in the US, I don't think much of the US consitution.

I think you should ask which ever split personality of yours was a government contractor before you start spouting off about what things in government do and do not cost.

We've spent as little as half a million to create a database that would hold 15,000 entities (as this one seems to be).

Well aren't you lot fucked. 50 years spent opposing communism for freedom, and now you get a stasi replica. If only Brown was not determined to do much the same in Britain, following in the example of Tony, I'd laugh.

Well aren't you lot fucked. 50 years spent opposing communism for freedom, and now you get a stasi replica. If only Brown was not determined to do much the same in Britain, following in the example of Tony, I'd laugh.

Apparently, the FBI has had informants for a long time.

Long before this.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=1013538

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the government to pay $101.4 million to two men and the families of two others who spent decades in prison for a 1965 murder after the FBI withheld evidence of their innocence to protect an informant.
Peter Limone, Joseph Salvati and the families of the two other men who died in prison after being convicted in a 1965 slaying had sued the federal government for malicious prosecution.
They argued Boston FBI agents knew mob hitman Joseph "The Animal" Barboza lied when he named the four men as killers. They said Barboza wanted to protect a fellow FBI informant, Vincent "Jimmy" Flemmi, who was involved in the slaying.
"It took 30 years to uncover this injustice, and the government’s position is in a word absurd," said U.S. District Judge Nancy Gertner.
The government argued that federal authorities had no duty to share information with state officials who prosecuted Limone, Salvati, Henry Tameleo and Louis Greco. Federal authorities cannot be held responsible for the results of a state prosecution, a Justice Department lawyer argued.
Salvati and Limone were exonerated in 2001 after FBI memos dating back to the Deegan case surfaced, showing the men were framed by Barboza.
"No lost liberty is dispensible," the judge told a packed courtroom. "We have fought wars over this prinicpal. We are still fighting these wars."

While the FBI's position on this case is absurd, it does point out the fact that they've had informants for a long, long time. If it were illegal or unconstitutional to have informants at all, then I'm sure they would have mentioned this.

I thought this was going to be about that Russian movie...

Me too. Anyone seen Daywatch?

I thought this was going to be about that Russian movie...
Ditto.

Me too. Anyone seen Daywatch?
Yeah; it's ace. Improvement on the first film.

As to the subject of the OP; ridiculous authoritarian crap.