NationStates Jolt Archive

Federal Election Commission, that is.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/07/23/210842.php

I think I agree with the person who posted this in his blog.

It's not that I believe that all blogs should be subject to the FEC - but if you organize one with the avowed intent to support and promote one party with the intent to get more of that party elected, it sounds like a political committee to me.

I'm sure there are some right-wing blogs that also fall into this category - and if they're organized and declared in the same way, then they should also be subject to the law.

I first thought of this complaint during the Cindy Sheehan debacle over at Daily Kos, where Cindy pledged to run as an independent against Nancy Pelosi, and the Daily Kos basically turned on her. While some conservatives took great delight in this, I really didn't care because it's politics as usual. The right has thrown their fair share of people under the bus for not drinking the Kool-aid too.

I remember this. They threw her under the bus because "this site is all about electing Democrats".

However, the statement that the DailyKos was about electing Democrats stuck with me. I always assumed it was a standard left-wing group blog spouting the latest and greatest in left-wing diatribe. However, the statement that the blog exists to get Democrats elected is repeated in various places around the site, including statements by Kos himself.


Well, Kos says:

This is a Democratic blog, a partisan blog. One that recognizes that Democrats run from left to right on the ideological spectrum, and yet we're all still in this fight together. We happily embrace centrists like NDN's Simon Rosenberg and Howard Dean, conservatives like Martin Frost and Brad Carson, and liberals like John Kerry and Barack Obama. Liberal? Yeah, we're around here and we're proud. But it's not a liberal blog. It's a Democratic blog with one goal in mind: electoral victory. And since we haven't gotten any of that from the current crew, we're one more thing: a reform blog. The battle for the party is not an ideological battle. It's one between establishment and anti-establishment factions. And as I've said a million times, the status quo is untenable

Partisan, and "Democratic" - not liberal or Left.

Federal Election Commission rules apply for organizations that spend or contribute an equivalent of $1,000 per year in trying to influence elections for federal office. DailyKos is owned by Kos Media, a company, which makes it fit the definition of an organization. It surely spends at least $1,000 per year in hosting and based on what they charge (and get) for advertising, their support of candidates is certainly worth over $1,000 per year. Lastly, their self-identified purpose is to influence elections in the Democrats favor. They fit the criteria.

This will be interesting to watch.

This will be interesting to watch.

hi and welcome to two years ago

Interesting stuff indeed, but:

In the end, the DailyKos is bound by its own statement that it exists to elect Democrats. They've made themselves subject to the FEC when they decided to be an arm of the Democratic Party.
Has DailyKos actually become an arm of the Democratic Party, rather than a blog run for and by Democratic supporters?

hi and welcome to two years ago

Now that someone has filed a complaint with the FEC against the Daily Kos. ;)

Now that someone has filed a complaint with the FEC against the Daily Kos. ;)

and the fec already explicitly sided with kos in particular several years ago

DailyKOS is a media site run by private parties that has put forth its opinion on politics.

This is no more an "arm" of the democratic party than a newspaper that runs an editorial about an author who is pro McCain is an arm of the republican party.

This blogger is made of fail, and so is RO for posting this tripe.

DailyKOS is a media site run by private parties that has put forth its opinion on politics.

This is no more an "arm" of the democratic party than a newspaper that runs an editorial about an author who is pro McCain is an arm of the republican party.

This blogger is made of fail, and so is RO for posting this tripe.

Ah, so I can run a PAC by starting a blog and taking donations and then posting the party line...

Hey Nazz, do you have a list of those talking points for me?

How does one define "worth at least $1000" and apply it to a website?

Didn't the hard rightwing court go "haha, no way sucka' " to that idea a short while back?

Find out how much money they take in for advertising.

It's way more than 1000 dollars for Daily Kos.

And it's all spent on advocating the election of Democratic Party candidates.
Yeah, they couldn't possibly have any other expenses :rolleyes:

If you were a normal blog, and spent, say, less than half your effort promoting candidates, and weren't paid for it, I could see that you weren't a PAC.

But this looks like a PAC to me. Complete with their threats to stand behind or not stand behind certain candidates during election time. Claiming that they can mobilize voters.
Shit, FOX News is its own PAC.

How does one define "worth at least $1000" and apply it to a website?

Find out how much money they take in for advertising.

It's way more than 1000 dollars for Daily Kos.

And it's all spent on advocating the election of Democratic Party candidates.

If you were a normal blog, and spent, say, less than half your effort promoting candidates, and weren't paid for it, I could see that you weren't a PAC.

But this looks like a PAC to me. Complete with their threats to stand behind or not stand behind certain candidates during election time. Claiming that they can mobilize voters.

DailyKOS is a media site run by private parties that has put forth its opinion on politics.

This is no more an "arm" of the democratic party than a newspaper that runs an editorial about an author who is pro McCain is an arm of the republican party.

This blogger is made of fail, and so is RO for posting this tripe.

It's one of the very few issues that liberal and conservative bloggers agree on--no less a right-ing hack than Instapundit wrote this morning "this is a terrible idea," and the National Review Online's The Corner called it "an outrage against the First Amendment that every conservative should fight vigorously."

But let's put it out there for everyone to see--the liberals have been and continue to kick ass on the internet. We're doing online what right-wingers did to talk radio, and it scares people like RO shitless, because we're the new wave of opinion makers.

Well, given that I generally loathe FEC regulation of political speech, why would I feel any different about this case?

Oh, so there are ZERO right-wing blogs and sites.... lol

Oh, there are. All of which combined don't get the hits the dailykos alone gets.

Sure there are right wing blogs out there, they're the internet blogging community equivalent of air america.

But let's put it out there for everyone to see--the liberals have been and continue to kick ass on the internet. We're doing online what right-wingers did to talk radio, and it scares people like RO shitless, because we're the new wave of opinion makers.

Oh, so there are ZERO right-wing blogs and sites.... lol

Oh, there are. All of which combined don't get the hits the dailykos alone gets.

Sure there are right wing blogs out there, they're the internet blogging community equivalent of air america.

Last time I saw the numbers, liberal blogs were 9 of the top 10 in traffic. The one conservative in the top 10 was Instapundit, and he was 2nd behind Kos, but by a considerable margin. I'd be surprised if things have changed much, considering how badly conservatives are polling these days.

Ever wonder where some of the traffic comes from?

We're reading your blogs.
Then that just makes you all look stupid doesn't it?

Last time I saw the numbers, liberal blogs were 9 of the top 10 in traffic. The one conservative in the top 10 was Instapundit, and he was 2nd behind Kos, but by a considerable margin. I'd be surprised if things have changed much, considering how badly conservatives are polling these days.

Ever wonder where some of the traffic comes from?

We're reading your blogs.

Last time I saw the numbers, liberal blogs were 9 of the top 10 in traffic. The one conservative in the top 10 was Instapundit, and he was 2nd behind Kos, but by a considerable margin. I'd be surprised if things have changed much, considering how badly conservatives are polling these days.

http://technorati.com/pop/blogs/

Looks fairly well distributed here.

Wait. Let me get this straight, because maybe you just don't understand election finance law. Are you saying that dKos donates any money directly to a candidate? The answer is no. All "donations" come from members (who are legally capped in donation amount most recently by the McCain-Feingold Election Reform Act). Unless The New Republic and Mother Jones are PACs, this is absolute tripe.

Strike that, this is absolute tripe. Almost as stupid as Bill O'rly's weeklong bullshit spewing contest regarding yKos.

seriously dk, are you even trying anymore?

Sorry, I don't have to donate to them to help them.

Was that intentionally non-sensical, or just accidentally that way?

Wait. Let me get this straight, because maybe you just don't understand election finance law. Are you saying that dKos donates any money directly to a candidate? The answer is no. All "donations" come from members (who are legally capped in donation amount most recently by the McCain-Feingold Election Reform Act). Unless The New Republic and Mother Jones are PACs, this is absolute tripe.

Strike that, this is absolute tripe. Almost as stupid as Bill O'rly's weeklong bullshit spewing contest regarding yKos.

Sorry, I don't have to donate to them to help them.

Then that just makes you all look stupid doesn't it?
Not really--there's a dialogue of sorts between the two sides. Given, the dialogue usually consists of linking to someone from the other side and saying the equivalent of "what a dumbass!" but it's still a dialogue. So even though RO is correct, that there are some right-wingers visiting liberal sites, the converse is true as well. Doesn't change anything in terms of the liberal dominance of the internet in US politics.

seriously dk, are you even trying anymore?

Seriously, the FEC could rule that Daily Kos is a PAC.

And not just a blog.

Seriously, the FEC could rule that Daily Kos is a PAC.

And not just a blog.

Which is bullshit. Is The New Republic a PAC? The reason we designate something a PAC is because it limits direct,hard money contributions to campaigns. dKos makes no direct contributions to any candidate. Even taking the author's twisted, nosensical logic seriously, all that Kos makes is a soft money sort of contribution by providing "fundraising" assistance. If that even counts it is unregulated money, like all soft money, and PAC status STILL does not apply.

Seriously, the FEC could rule that Daily Kos is a PAC.

And not just a blog.

Oh please. If anything could be ruled a PAC just for advocating the election of a certain party, there would be more PACs than anyone knew what to do with.

Seriously, the FEC could rule that Daily Kos is a PAC.

And not just a blog.

no, they couldn't, not according to the rules. this was all handled in the past. several years ago, in fact.

Absolutely not. Even though I definitely don't like the majority of what Daily Kos promotes, their rights to free speech should be protected. The FEC should be eliminated.

no, they couldn't, not according to the rules. this was all handled in the past. several years ago, in fact.

No, this aspect was NOT handled.

I see you didn't read the blog entry at all.

He's filed paperwork. We'll see who is right.

The most reasonable reading of the OP is:

"I, RO / Blogger pissant, am incapable of comprehending political bias in media without an explicit admission, such as the one made by daily kos."

No, this aspect was NOT handled.

yes, it was. these exact same complaints were made and rejected before.

It's no more in need of being regulated by the FEC than MoveOn.org is.



Also: IT'S OVER FOUR-THOUSAAAAAAND - WHAT, FOUR-THOUSAND?!

While it would be incredibly ironic for a liberal blog to be regulated, I do not think that the government has any right to regulate what people do with their property. Politics is so whorish anyway that trying to regulate it is like putting a rosary on a street walker.

If someone wanted the FEC to designate Little Green Footballs a PAC, you can be sure Kimchi would have raised a stinker about that.

If someone wanted the FEC to designate Little Green Footballs a PAC, you can be sure Kimchi would have raised a stinker about that.

And let me tell you, it felt awful dirty to be on the same side of an issue with those pieces of shit, but it's a necessary position to take.

It's one of the very few issues that liberal and conservative bloggers agree on--no less a right-ing hack than Instapundit wrote this morning "this is a terrible idea," and the National Review Online's The Corner called it "an outrage against the First Amendment that every conservative should fight vigorously."

But let's put it out there for everyone to see--the liberals have been and continue to kick ass on the internet. We're doing online what right-wingers did to talk radio, and it scares people like RO shitless, because we're the new wave of opinion makers.
Frankly, I think you're completely and totally wrong. The Daily Kos ought to be subject to the FEC. With the amount of money that it gathers for Democrats, it's just ridiculous.

Same thing for Fox News and the Republicans, by the way, and any other blog or media form that gathers that much money for a party.

To be frank, the idiocy and partisan hackery of the Daily Kos makes me sick, no matter what points they advocate. I could completely agree with every position they hold on issues and they would still make me sick, because they're all about keeping the current power structure of two super-parties when this country does not need that pathetic power structure anymore.

Frankly, I think you're completely and totally wrong. The Daily Kos ought to be subject to the FEC. With the amount of money that it gathers for Democrats, it's just ridiculous

Kos itself never hands any money. That's utter nonsense. The FEC exists to regulate the people who handle money. There is absolutely no reason for the FEC to oversee dKos. It would just be adding stupid and unnecessary bureaucracy.

To be frank, the idiocy and partisan hackery of the Daily Kos makes me sick, no matter what points they advocate. I could completely agree with every position they hold on issues and they would still make me sick, because they're all about keeping the current power structure of two super-parties when this country does not need that pathetic power structure anymore.

I really, really despise the pretension of "third party" advocates. Ours is a two party system like every Democracy. Stop whining about it and either work to change the dialogue or just give up.

Edit: And I'd be shocked if you have ever read dKos more than once. The only disgusting partisanship there is the Pro-Edwards Faction, and they're fading fast.

I really, really despise the pretension of "third party" advocates. Ours is a two party system like every Democracy. Stop whining about it and either work to change the dialogue or just give up.


No, not every democracy is a two party system. Not even close. In fact, the whole notion is rather undemocratic.

Kos itself never hands any money. That's utter nonsense. The FEC exists to regulate the people who handle money. There is absolutely no reason for the FEC to oversee dKos. It would just be adding stupid and unnecessary bureaucracy.


Yes, I see that now, having read the rest of the thread. Forgive my urge to jump down throats.

I really, really despise the pretension of "third party" advocates. Ours is a two party system like every Democracy. Stop whining about it and either work to change the dialogue or just give up.

Edit: And I'd be shocked if you have ever read dKos more than once. The only disgusting partisanship there is the Pro-Edwards Faction, and they're fading fast.

No. No it isn't like "every Democracy." Try paying attention to some European nations, or even our lovely neighbor, Canada. They're not two party systems, yet they're democracies, in that they espouse a democratic system of government. (And technically our government is a republic, not a democracy. But that's playing for semantics, and I hate those kind of games.)

For the record, I'm usually not fond of parties at all. What I want is representation of people's viewpoints fairly, rather than this stupid mentality the United States has of there being only two sides, two specific viewpoints to every issue, with one superparty trying to represent one side and the other the other side. It's asinine and one of the largest reasons we have voter apathy, that singular lack of decent representation, along with the first past the post system and the inability of other parties and Independents to run for any major political office.

Basically, I just want political fairness and representation in the manner that we should have. Is that too much to ask?

Yes, I see that now, having read the rest of the thread. Forgive my urge to jump down throats.

I shant. Nostrils are much more pleasant.


No. No it isn't like "every Democracy." Try paying attention to some European nations, or even our lovely neighbor, Canada. They're not two party systems, yet they're democracies, in that they espouse a democratic system of government. (And technically our government is a republic, not a democracy. But that's playing for semantics, and I hate those kind of games.)

While there are technically more than two parties in Canada, in practice, there are two ideological blocs (pun intended).

For the record, I'm usually not fond of parties at all. What I want is representation of people's viewpoints fairly, rather than this stupid mentality the United States has of there being only two sides, two specific viewpoints to every issue, with one superparty trying to represent one side and the other the other side. It's asinine and one of the largest reasons we have voter apathy, that singular lack of decent representation, along with the first past the post system and the inability of other parties and Independents to run for any major political office.

Basically, I just want political fairness and representation in the manner that we should have. Is that too much to ask?

Yes. Next question?

I shant. Nostrils are much more pleasant.
...

What?


While there are technically more than two parties in Canada, in practice, there are two ideological blocs (pun intended).

Meanwhile, you ignore my example of the European nations. Taking a page from RO's book?


Yes. Next question?
Why?

...

What?

I've had 3 hours of sleep in the last 2 days. That was my attempt at humor. Don't try to understand it, just laugh.

Meanwhile, you ignore my example of the European nations. Taking a page from RO's book?

Nope. I just wasn't reading for details and I missed the other examples. How about Britain? Power changes hands between two coalitions: the left and the right. France? Two coalitions: The "Presidential Majority" and the "United Left". The only real difference between those countries and America is that our parties are significantly broader coalitions because getting a seat at the table is tougher.


Why?

We got to the polling place with the world that exists, not the world we wish existed.

I've had 3 hours of sleep in the last 2 days. That was my attempt at humor. Don't try to understand it, just laugh.

Oh damn. My sympathies. Seriously. And get some sleep when you can.


Nope. I just wasn't reading for details and I missed the other examples. How about Britain? Power changes hands between two coalitions: the left and the right. France? Two coalitions: The "Presidential Majority" and the "United Left". The only real difference between those countries and America is that our parties are significantly broader coalitions because getting a seat at the table is tougher.



Point.

But I'm sure there are some examples of what I'm talking about actually working. I can think of a few countries that might be it...Belgium...Netherlands...Germany...and so on, but I'm feeling about as enthusiastic as you are about checking on them.

I do really dislike partisanship though...such association with one faction to the point of refusing to contemplate anything from any other is xenophobic and, in my mind, is a form of bigotry, hence my willingness to jump down throats about it.

Oh damn. My sympathies. Seriously. And get some sleep when you can.

Thanks.


Point.

But I'm sure there are some examples of what I'm talking about actually working. I can think of a few countries that might be it...Belgium...Netherlands...Germany...and so on, but I'm feeling about as enthusiastic as you are about checking on them.

I do really dislike partisanship though...such association with one faction to the point of refusing to contemplate anything from any other is xenophobic and, in my mind, is a form of bigotry, hence my willingness to jump down throats about it.

I'd vote for a Republican... If the Democrat was a criminal or if I felt the Dem wasn't better for America, but I've rarely met a Dem who I was less in line with me than his Republican opponent. As to criminals, those happen in politics, and I've seen some in both parties.

Did some more checking: Germany has essentially two coalitions. The Netherlands is a bit odd, and I couldn't find coalition information. Maybe one of the locals here on NSG could fill us in? Belgium, I didn't check, because I got lazy.

Thanks.

I'm glad we worked that out, because when I first posted in this thread I was ridiculously aggressive.



I'd vote for a Republican... If the Democrat was a criminal or if I felt the Dem wasn't better for America, but I've rarely met a Dem who I was less in line with me than his Republican opponent. As to criminals, those happen in politics, and I've seen some in both parties.

Well, I won't vote for any Republican period for anything anymore, but that's more a case of not wanting the kind of idiots that are the Republican "base"--the evangelical fundies who'd love to fuck over an atheist like me-- have control of anything via their chosen candidate.

Dems I'm willing to vote for, but only just, and usually only to defeat the Republican. I'd avoid voting for them too if I could.

Did some more checking: Germany has essentially two coalitions. The Netherlands is a bit odd, and I couldn't find coalition information. Maybe one of the locals here on NSG could fill us in? Belgium, I didn't check, because I got lazy.

I really hope there aren't two coalitions everywhere, because it'll make me look like an ideologue.

I'm glad we worked that out, because when I first posted in this thread I was ridiculously aggressive.

Don't stress. I do that all the time.

Well, I won't vote for any Republican period for anything anymore, but that's more a case of not wanting the kind of idiots that are the Republican "base"--the evangelical fundies who'd love to fuck over an atheist like me-- have control of anything via their chosen candidate.

Honestly, in local politics, sometimes I prefer to vote Conservative/Republican. At State and Federal level, I'm of a different opinion, but my town really, really needs fiscal responsibility.

I really hope there aren't two coalitions everywhere, because it'll make me look like an ideologue.

That's the nature of Democracy, tbh. I sometimes wish we had proprtional representation, so that everyone got a seat at the table, but dualist systems reflect the tension between modernity and traditionalism in all societies.

Don't stress. I do that all the time.

So I've noticed. It seems to be somewhat of a common trait between you and I...initial aggressiveness followed by mellowing out. Like we're on crack or something.


Honestly, in local politics, sometimes I prefer to vote Conservative/Republican. At State and Federal level, I'm of a different opinion, but my town really, really needs fiscal responsibility.

This presumes said Republican/conservative is actually fiscally responsible, which does not follow with anyone local here, especially since many of the school board seem intent on favouring the athletics programs over everything else, which is ridiculous because the Platte Canyon High School speech team is the best speech team in the state, hands down. If you're going to support something extracurricular, support that. It's educational, fun, and gets you thinking.

Plus, I have to deal with Tom Tancredo. You think I'd ever vote for a Republican representative after dealing with him for six or so years?

That's the nature of Democracy, tbh. I sometimes wish we had proportional representation, so that everyone got a seat at the table, but dualist systems reflect the tension between modernity and traditionalism in all societies.
The problem is human limitations, I suspect. Our brains simply can't handle the bigger picture without a lot of training and learning, and most are simply unwilling to do the work required, instead allowing baser instincts rule, fostering xenophobic and bigoted viewpoints.

It's one reason I'm eager for being able to transfer my consciousness into a computer, so I can utilize its resources rather than my own limited brain's resources.

...

Though of course I won't be rid of the instincts. For all I know being outside of my body like that might drive me insane.

So I've noticed. It seems to be somewhat of a common trait between you and I...initial aggressiveness followed by mellowing out. Like we're on crack or something.

<.<

That's... Er... Sugar! Yeah! That's it! >.>
:p

This presumes said Republican/conservative is actually fiscally responsible, which does not follow with anyone local here, especially since many of the school board seem intent on favouring the athletics programs over everything else, which is ridiculous because the Platte Canyon High School speech team is the best speech team in the state, hands down. If you're going to support something extracurricular, support that. It's educational, fun, and gets you thinking.

Absolutely. Locally, the school boards are split more along the lines of pro-ID and anti-ID, so I support Liberals for School Board, but city counsel is different.

Plus, I have to deal with Tom Tancredo. You think I'd ever vote for a Republican representative after dealing with him for six or so years?

Poor bastard.

The problem is human limitations, I suspect. Our brains simply can't handle the bigger picture without a lot of training and learning, and most are simply unwilling to do the work required, instead allowing baser instincts rule, fostering xenophobic and bigoted viewpoints.

Tribal species behavir being what it is, it's a sad truth.

It's one reason I'm eager for being able to transfer my consciousness into a computer, so I can utilize its resources rather than my own limited brain's resources.

...

Though of course I won't be rid of the instincts. For all I know being outside of my body like that might drive me insane.

Short putt, not a long drive. :p