NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so this Wednesday night, Coast to Coast AM with George Noorey will be doing an Ouija Board Special, in which they'll actually use the board to try to contact the other side. So to get ready for this show (which should be awesome) let us talk about the Ouija Board, have you ever played around with it, what do you think about it, what happened when you played around with it etc.

I personally never played around with it and I have friends who did, and really I get mix stories about this, some say that nothing happened, others say that after they used it, they heard scratching sounds, smell sulfur etc. If I am going to use an Ouija Board, it's not going to be the plastic Parker Brother version, but really the old wooden version.

So what do you guys think?

My guess is the people involved move it(the pointer thingy) around consciously or subconsciously, however lacking any actual evidence I can only conclude that I lack evidence.

It's crap.

Well, that was simple.

Next question?

Maybe one way to shoot for accuracy would be to have the actual Ouija'ers do it with their eyes closed while a person not touching the lens quietly records everything.

When I was in fifth grade, one of my classmates told us what happened when she tried to get rid of a ouija board. She threw it away. It came back somehow. She buried it. It came back somehow. Hell (no pun intended), she even tried to burn it. She watched as it burned to ashes. It came back in mint condition somehow. There are some things science can not explain yet. That's why scientists are still employed.

Maybe one way to shoot for accuracy would be to have the actual Ouija'ers do it with their eyes closed while a person not touching the lens quietly records everything.

Hah! That's how I made a group at a party do it. Needless to say no answers to further questions were sought from a spirit who named itself "2-F-space between Q and R-no-7-W".

When I was in fifth grade, one of my classmates told us what happened when she tried to get rid of a ouija board. She threw it away. It came back somehow. She buried it. It came back somehow. Hell (no pun intended), she even tried to burn it. She watched as it burned to ashes. It came back in mint condition somehow. There are some things science can not explain yet. That's why scientists are still employed.

She "told" you all that, did she? :rolleyes:

When I was in fifth grade, one of my classmates told us what happened when she tried to get rid of a ouija board. She threw it away. It came back somehow. She buried it. It came back somehow. Hell (no pun intended), she even tried to burn it. She watched as it burned to ashes. It came back in mint condition somehow. There are some things science can not explain yet. That's why scientists are still employed.

You are lying or she was lying. Scientists not required.

When I was in fifth grade, one of my classmates told us what happened when she tried to get rid of a ouija board. She threw it away. It came back somehow. She buried it. It came back somehow. Hell (no pun intended), she even tried to burn it. She watched as it burned to ashes. It came back in mint condition somehow.
Stupid, she should have sold it! She would have an infinite source of income.

Ok, so this Wednesday night, Coast to Coast AM with George Noorey will be doing an Ouija Board Special, in which they'll actually use the board to try to contact the other side. So to get ready for this show (which should be awesome) let us talk about the Ouija Board, have you ever played around with it, what do you think about it, what happened when you played around with it etc.

I personally never played around with it and I have friends who did, and really I get mix stories about this, some say that nothing happened, others say that after they used it, they heard scratching sounds, smell sulfur etc. If I am going to use an Ouija Board, it's not going to be the plastic Parker Brother version, but really the old wooden version.

So what do you guys think?


if the board is marked OUIJA, it was made by parker brothers. they own the trademark and have since its beginning.

there are other similar boards that have been used throughout the centuries.

they are more a channel to your subconscious (if used correctly) than a channel to the spirit world.

george noory does a great job with coast to coast. even if it IS crap (which is it) he should be able to make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.

Once I consulted a Ouija Board to determine whether I would pass my exams or not that year. As I asked the question, I felt the room grow colder, and I swear I could smell a hint of sulphur in the air as my hands slowly moved under the guidance of unseen powers.
When I opened my eyes, I could hardly believe the response I had been given. "H", said the spirits.
"H", said I, "What the fuck does that mean?"
But the restless dead had already left me and were no doubt off curdling some poor old woman's cream or trying to uncurl the tail of my neighbor's Shi tzu.

Stupid, she should have sold it! She would have an infinite source of income.

Or hardwood flooring.

Stupid, she should have sold it! She would have an infinite source of income.

This is genius.

It's pyoor baws.

Stupid, she should have sold it! She would have an infinite source of income.

Or fuel.

When I was in fifth grade, one of my classmates told us what happened when she tried to get rid of a ouija board. She threw it away. It came back somehow. She buried it. It came back somehow. Hell (no pun intended), she even tried to burn it. She watched as it burned to ashes. It came back in mint condition somehow. There are some things science can not explain yet. That's why scientists are still employed.
Talking of which, I had three ouija boards, once. Peculiarly, I opened a cupboard to find one one day to discover just a pile of ashes. The others were equally damaged - one was slick with mud and the other covered in rotten garbage.

Most peculiar.

*nods knowingly* There are some things science can't explain.

¬.¬

Once I consulted a Ouija Board to determine whether I would pass my exams or not that year. As I asked the question, I felt the room grow colder, and I swear I could smell a hint of sulphur in the air as my hands slowly moved under the guidance of unseen powers.
When I opened my eyes, I could hardly believe the response I had been given. "H", said the spirits.
"H", said I, "What the fuck does that mean?"
But the restless dead had already left me and were no doubt off curdling some poor old woman's cream or trying to uncurl the tail of my neighbor's Shi tzu.

The Spirits have short attention spans. *nod*

The Spirits have short attention spans. *nod*
Well, I must admit. If I had to choose between answering some asshole's pointless questions or harassing a fluffy dog with a curly tail, I'd rather play with the dog.
Still, he could have at least bothered to say goodbye; the option is right there at the bottom of the board.

I prefer not to gamble with such things. It might be my subconscious, but then again, it might not and I prefer to avoid the chance of something bad happening.

Personally, I feel the board itself is irrelevant; like any attempt at summoning something with the intention of communicating (like automatic writing), that's merely a focus for both sides to communicate with one another in as convenient a manner as possible.

This is genius.
Why thank you for stating the truth! :D ;)

When I was in fifth grade, one of my classmates told us what happened when she tried to get rid of a ouija board. She threw it away. It came back somehow. She buried it. It came back somehow. Hell (no pun intended), she even tried to burn it. She watched as it burned to ashes. It came back in mint condition somehow.

Why do I get the feeling this friend of yours has older siblings who would've loved nothing more than to mess with her head? Assuming that she wasn't just making this up or taking something she'd seen in a movie and trying to pass it off as a personal experience.

Ok, so this Wednesday night, Coast to Coast AM with George Noorey will be doing an Ouija Board Special, in which they'll actually use the board to try to contact the other side. So to get ready for this show (which should be awesome) let us talk about the Ouija Board, have you ever played around with it, what do you think about it, what happened when you played around with it etc.

I personally never played around with it and I have friends who did, and really I get mix stories about this, some say that nothing happened, others say that after they used it, they heard scratching sounds, smell sulfur etc. If I am going to use an Ouija Board, it's not going to be the plastic Parker Brother version, but really the old wooden version.

So what do you guys think?

If you don't believe in the supernatural: you're getting in touch with your unconscious mind and that can be very uncomfortable and even mess you up if you uncover something you're not ready for.

If you do believe in the supernatural: It's a doorway, and you don't get to control what you invite in.

Either way -- bad idea.

Under certain circumstances, I have had extremely accurate results with the Oujia board. No sulfur stink or anything, but then I've never asked the "other side" on the board to prove its presence. (Essentially inviting it into the physical room)

-My mother and aunt were using it, and challenged me to silently ask a question of it. So I thought "What will I get on my AP exam next month?". The reply from the board: "3-AP-STDI" I studied more than I usually did, and indeed got a 3 on the exam.
-My sister and I were using the board on a whim, and had someone on the other side ask about "106-7-KROQ" and asking to put it on. 106.7, better known as KROQ, is a fairly popular radio station in my area.
-Shortly after my friend's father died, my sister and I were using the board, with my friend in the room. Now, keep in mind that neither my sister nor I know a word of Russian, while my friend's recently deceased father did. The board proceeded to spell out several long strings of letters that to us looked like jibberish. We thought it was just nonesense until my friend burst into tears and translated it- from Russian to English. The "jibberish" was an encouragement addressed to my friend to be strong, that things would be alright, and that whoever was talking through the board was extremely proud of her.

If I am going to use an Ouija Board, it's not going to be the plastic Parker Brother version, but really the old wooden version.

So what do you guys think?

What difference does the board make? (assuming supernatural causes)

-My sister and I were using the board on a whim, and had someone on the other side ask about "106-7-KROQ" and asking to put it on. 106.7, better known as KROQ, is a fairly popular radio station in my area.
Even the goddamn spirit world is just a bunch of sell-outs these days.

-My sister and I were using the board on a whim, and had someone on the other side ask about "106-7-KROQ" and asking to put it on. 106.7, better known as KROQ, is a fairly popular radio station in my area.


I love when the spirit world helps to explain my feelings towards Ouija

Ok, so this Wednesday night, Coast to Coast AM with George Noorey will be doing an Ouija Board Special, in which they'll actually use the board to try to contact the other side.
You know what? I somehow understood that they are going to contact the other side of the USA (from one coast to another) :D. But wait - wouldn't it prove that the ouija board works?

You know what? I somehow understood that they are going to contact the other side of the USA (from one coast to another) :D. But wait - wouldn't it prove that the ouija board works?

doesnt matter that it sounds stupid "on paper". when george noory does it, you will get a tingle even if you ultimately arent convinced.

hes good at what he does.

doesnt matter that it sounds stupid "on paper". when george noory does it, you will get a tingle even if you ultimately arent convinced.

hes good at what he does.

I know and I can't wait to tune in to hear the show. I'm wondering if they're going to have a web cam set up so you can watch it. I hope so! :)

doesnt matter that it sounds stupid "on paper". when george noory does it, you will get a tingle even if you ultimately arent convinced. hes good at what he does.
OK, I haven't seen this guy, but I the 90s I watched this weird Russian healer Kashpirovski on tv and I must say that although I don't give a hoot about this whole supernatural business, after maybe 30 seconds of his recitations I felt my muscles relaxing - I had no idea how tense I was and how many individual muscles I had! Must be something in the voice I guess.
Funny thing was when he warned that the recorded transmissions of his programmes had no power and just a few months later proceeded to sell videos of them :D.

I think mostly any scary things that have happened were due to group hysteria, since I was always with about 10 girls at a slumber party......

I think there are real evil things, I just don't think they are so blatant as to come talk to 13 year old girls asking questions like "will I marry Bobby?"

those things are bad news. I personally witnessed a poltergeist caused by one. I don't know about 13 year old girls but I'd stay away from them if I were you. its like stopping in the middle of a crowded city street and asking the first person who hears you and agrees to come into your home an answer some questions for you. they'll probably lie and they'll probably screw you over.

those things are bad news. I personally witnessed a poltergeist caused by one. I don't know about 13 year old girls but I'd stay away from them if I were you. its like stopping in the middle of a crowded city street and asking the first person who hears you and agrees to come into your home an answer some questions for you. they'll probably lie and they'll probably screw you over.

oh, I am sure there are all kinds of ways to screw up, in my personal experience though it's mostly been for the lolz. I wouldn't do it now for a million bucks, I have seen and experienced more than I ever wanted to without inviting anything you know?

oh, I am sure there are all kinds of ways to screw up, in my personal experience though it's mostly been for the lolz. I wouldn't do it now for a million bucks, I have seen and experienced more than I ever wanted to without inviting anything you know?

yeah. there are better situations to talk to dead people in, if you're hell-bent on doing it. there are all sorts of fun shamanic sorts of things that do it in a more or less controlled setting. in the US latin american folk religions are probably the best bet - my favorite is afro-brazilian - most practitioners of santeria or candomble are also practitioners of a modified form of kardecian spiritism, they have "mesas" for the dead, masses that is, and these often involve medianic possession and some freaky shit. I've never been to one, just to the bembes for the actual deities and not random dead people, but I have sane friends who've told me about them, and probably will attend once I move back out of the bible belt.

you get in what you put out with ouija boards, at least in terms of degree, and I don't care if I sound like a nut, I once got a full blown bed-shaking light-flickering gravelly-voice-on-my-electronics poltergeist, and fuck if I'm doing that again. leave it to the professionals. (and as far as mesas I'm pretty sure none of them accept payment)

lol, its things like that that separate me from the strict atheist materialists...after that kind of thing people whining about logical inconsistencies in the bible "proving" spirituality doesn't exist just seem kind of ridiculous. I don't expect to convince them and I don't care to waste time doing it. if people want to keep their heads in the sand, let them. (that applies to religious fools as well as irreligious ones)

The spookiest thing I've done is "Rise Table Rise". A group sets around a small table in the dark with their little fingers touching so no one can cheat and chants "Rise Table Rise". And the d--- table starts to float.

MEH!

My sister and her friends were doing that whole "light as a feather, stiff as a board." thing when I walked up and said: "You are too fat for this to work, you are too old to be doing this shit."

They stopped.

Reminds me of Most Haunted, a 'ghost' show on TV here in the UK, almost entirely filmed using poor night vision.

On a fairly recent episode, the show's resident medium, Derek Acora, who manages to feel cold in all manner of rooms all over Britain, was describing a presence in the room to the presenter and viewers, when a chair mysteriously began to rise.

As Acora was describing the spirit(s) levitating the chair, some genius in the TV crew, obviously fed up after several seasons of Acora's wittering, turned on the lights....

...only to find Acora standing in the middle of the room, holding up the chair himself!

Later on, of course, he claimed he had been 'possessed'. :p

Reminds me of Most Haunted, a 'ghost' show on TV here in the UK, almost entirely filmed using poor night vision.

Most Haunted: Destroying respect for paranormal investigation since 2002.

lol, its things like that that separate me from the strict atheist materialists...after that kind of thing people whining about logical inconsistencies in the bible "proving" spirituality doesn't exist just seem kind of ridiculous. I don't expect to convince them and I don't care to waste time doing it. if people want to keep their heads in the sand, let them. (that applies to religious fools as well as irreligious ones)
I seriously LOL when I find atheists who believe in ghosts.

I seriously LOL when I find atheists who believe in ghosts.

I could actually see a legitimate defense of the existence of ghosts/survival after death that does not require any belief in the supernatural. However, I doubt most people go to such lengths to resolve inconsistencies in their belief system.

I could actually see a legitimate defense of the existence of ghosts/survival after death that does not require any belief in the supernatural. However, I doubt most people go to such lengths to resolve inconsistencies in their belief system.

My friend started rattling off why life exists after death via the electrical remnants from the brain. I wasn't listening, but it seemed more sound than 72 sturgeons.

Most Haunted: Destroying respect for paranormal investigation since 2002.
And ruining ex-Blue Peter presenters reputations.

I could actually see a legitimate defense of the existence of ghosts/survival after death that does not require any belief in the supernatural.
It would have to require a split between body and mind which, IMO, seems completely untenable.

I seriously LOL when I find atheists who believe in ghosts.
Mmmm, always found that funny as well.

Same with a lot of the 'New Age' movement; always seem to be talking about God in all but name.

yeah. there are better situations to talk to dead people in, if you're hell-bent on doing it. there are all sorts of fun shamanic sorts of things that do it in a more or less controlled setting. in the US latin american folk religions are probably the best bet - my favorite is afro-brazilian - most practitioners of santeria or candomble are also practitioners of a modified form of kardecian spiritism, they have "mesas" for the dead, masses that is, and these often involve medianic possession and some freaky shit. I've never been to one, just to the bembes for the actual deities and not random dead people, but I have sane friends who've told me about them, and probably will attend once I move back out of the bible belt.

you get in what you put out with ouija boards, at least in terms of degree, and I don't care if I sound like a nut, I once got a full blown bed-shaking light-flickering gravelly-voice-on-my-electronics poltergeist, and fuck if I'm doing that again. leave it to the professionals. (and as far as mesas I'm pretty sure none of them accept payment)

lol, its things like that that separate me from the strict atheist materialists...after that kind of thing people whining about logical inconsistencies in the bible "proving" spirituality doesn't exist just seem kind of ridiculous. I don't expect to convince them and I don't care to waste time doing it. if people want to keep their heads in the sand, let them. (that applies to religious fools as well as irreligious ones)

:confused: (http://www.hostilism.com/ht/misc/nigga_gone_crazy.jpg)

It would have to require a split between body and mind which, IMO, seems completely untenable.

Not necessarily, depending on what level consciousness occurs. Now, this would not mean memory/personality would survive (at least not significantly enough to totally recreate the person after death), but it would mean a conscious mind would survive.

And there are some practical reasons for such an ability if it were to have evolved along with the brain.

The spookiest thing I've done is "Rise Table Rise". A group sets around a small table in the dark with their little fingers touching so no one can cheat and chants "Rise Table Rise". And the d--- table starts to float.

And you confirmed this... how? It was, as you mentioned, dark, and tables can be lifted with more than just hands and arms.

Needless to say, I don't take the "supernatural" all that seriously. Memories are easy to fake, even to yourself, and the human psyche really isn't all that well-equipped to deal with certain situations, making it easily foolable.

Agreed. The show Ghost Hunters which features an organization known as TAPS does a good job, since they go into each haunting skeptical and try to disprove it.

I'm sure you've seen the show, if not check it out Wednesdays on SciFi.

I love Ghost Hunters...it's my favorite show on Sci-Fi.

Not necessarily, depending on what level consciousness occurs. Now, this would not mean memory/personality would survive (at least not significantly enough to totally recreate the person after death), but it would mean a conscious mind would survive.

And there are some practical reasons for such an ability if it were to have evolved along with the brain.
Sehr interessant.

Though to hijack for a tad longer, I'd need a lot of convincing. From my point of view, an active mind is not possible (non-existent) without body, and an alive body is not possible (non-existent) without mind.

To me, they're opposite sides of the same coin; separating the two at best confuses things, at worst causes some serious problems for human beans.

Cartesian dualism has done a lot of damage over the years, and has a lot to answer for.

Most Haunted: Destroying respect for paranormal investigation since 2002.



Agreed. The show Ghost Hunters which features an organization known as TAPS does a good job, since they go into each haunting skeptical and try to disprove it.

I'm sure you've seen the show, if not check it out Wednesdays on SciFi.

And you confirmed this... how? It was, as you mentioned, dark, and tables can be lifted with more than just hands and arms.

Needless to say, I don't take the "supernatural" all that seriously. Memories are easy to fake, even to yourself, and the human psyche really isn't all that well-equipped to deal with certain situations, making it easily foolable.

Not just foolable... it's human nature to want to be fooled.

Though to hijack for a tad longer, I'd need a lot of convincing. From my point of view, an active mind is not possible (non-existent) without body, and an alive body is not possible (non-existent) without mind.

I tend to agree, although I compromise by also taking the position that the root of consciousness itself occurs at a lower level than the structures of the brain, and so any substrate capable of performing the necessary calculations and patterns that generate a conscious mind may be able to continue it after death.

Of course, that doesn't help with memories or emotions, which are clearly rooted in the chemicals and processes of the brain itself. But then again, most older beliefs about the afterlife saw the dead as shadows of their former selves...perhaps they were on to something that was later lost.

To me, they're opposite sides of the same coin; separating the two at best confuses things, at worst causes some serious problems for human beans.

Cartesian dualism has done a lot of damage over the years, and has a lot to answer for.

It represents the extreme position in the mind-body debate, and like any extreme position it deals a lot of damage. Personally, I feel that both of the hard positions, monism and dualism, are incapable of resolving the question by themselves.

Memories are easy to fake, even to yourself, and the human psyche really isn't all that well-equipped to deal with certain situations, making it easily foolable.

Hence additional advanced optical/audio installments and solid state memory storage devices are imperative to dealing with the usual jibber jabber. *nods*

Try fooling a harddrive.

I tend to agree, although I compromise by also taking the position that the root of consciousness itself occurs at a lower level than the structures of the brain, and so any substrate capable of performing the necessary calculations and patterns that generate a conscious mind may be able to continue it after death.
Almost like an electrical charge (though obviously not necessarily not electrical) left over from your life?

A cool concept, and one, as you say, in line with many tales of afterlives.

It represents the extreme position in the mind-body debate, and like any extreme position it deals a lot of damage. Personally, I feel that both of the hard positions, monism and dualism, are incapable of resolving the question by themselves.
I wouldn't quite call myself a Monist (though I do find the position more attractive than the Dualist's), but I just can't see, yet, any possible separation of body/mind.

Try fooling a harddrive.
*passes a magnet over Non Aligned States' HDD*

:p

*passes a magnet over Non Aligned States' HDD*

:p

Bah. You're just erasing data. The experiment can be redone. In a magnetically shielded casing.

Bah. You're just erasing data. The experiment can be redone. In a magnetically shielded casing.
If it wasn't for you pesky kids!

*shakes fist*

If it wasn't for you pesky kids!

*shakes fist*

Foiling villains and petty crooks since forever.

Ok, if we're done with the hijack now....

She "told" you all that, did she? :rolleyes:

She did from the other side. Through the same board. And when she reclaimed the board, she did it through my TV set and other media for EVP.

Knowing i only use about 11% of my brain *on average*, she figured she could easily hide in my head until i allowed myself the opportunity to use another summoning medium of sorts, like tea leaves, scapulamancy or the magic eightball device i'd gotten in the mail.

Ouija boards are worthless crap. Penn & Teller had a show about them once where they had some people try it with their eyes first and then without and they moved the damn pointer to where they thought the Yes and No spots were. I think Houdini did the same thing. And I think James Randi. And just about every debunker on the face of the fuckin' planet.

Houdini didn't start doing it until after his mom died. Before that I geuss he just saw it as innocent fun but after he must have gotten pissed at folks trying to scam people by "contacting the other side" and give them false hope and a belief in something that isn't real.

I wouldn't quite call myself a Monist (though I do find the position more attractive than the Dualist's), but I just can't see, yet, any possible separation of body/mind.

you're not a Monist. Advaita (Hindu Monism) is extremely compatible with belief in the supernatural.

Ouija boards are worthless crap. Penn & Teller had a show about them once where they had some people try it with their eyes first and then without and they moved the damn pointer to where they thought the Yes and No spots were. I think Houdini did the same thing. And I think James Randi. And just about every debunker on the face of the fuckin' planet.

Houdini didn't start doing it until after his mom died. Before that I geuss he just saw it as innocent fun but after he must have gotten pissed at folks trying to scam people by "contacting the other side" and give them false hope and a belief in something that isn't real.

why are atheists always trying to simplify it down to wishful thinking? belief in the supernatural isn't automatically comforting. it's oftentimes far from it. eastern religions have a tendency to invalidate this sort of thing...buddhism is all about seeking oblivion because the supernatural and the immortality of the soul won't allow you a release from suffering. simple postmortem oblivion is a *goal* for millions of spiritualists who are convinced that spiritual reality won't let them have it unless they work for it. Samsara is nobody's pipe dream. people need to stop towing the secularist party line and realize that not every person who believes in the supernatural dreams of some all powerful bunny-rabbit in the sky because they just can't handle the fact that their loved ones kicked the bucket. it's not that fucking simple.

yeah. there are better situations to talk to dead people in, if you're hell-bent on doing it. there are all sorts of fun shamanic sorts of things that do it in a more or less controlled setting. in the US latin american folk religions are probably the best bet - my favorite is afro-brazilian - most practitioners of santeria or candomble are also practitioners of a modified form of kardecian spiritism, they have "mesas" for the dead, masses that is, and these often involve medianic possession and some freaky shit. I've never been to one, just to the bembes for the actual deities and not random dead people, but I have sane friends who've told me about them, and probably will attend once I move back out of the bible belt.


Like in angel heart...with yer woman.....

Like in angel heart...with yer woman.....

I'm not following you...

why are atheists always trying to simplify it down to wishful thinking? belief in the supernatural isn't automatically comforting. it's oftentimes far from it. eastern religions have a tendency to invalidate this sort of thing...buddhism is all about seeking oblivion because the supernatural and the immortality of the soul won't allow you a release from suffering. simple postmortem oblivion is a *goal* for millions of spiritualists who are convinced that spiritual reality won't let them have it unless they work for it. Samsara is nobody's pipe dream. people need to stop towing the secularist party line and realize that not every person who believes in the supernatural dreams of some all powerful bunny-rabbit in the sky because they just can't handle the fact that their loved ones kicked the bucket. it's not that fucking simple.
There is only one way to respond to this.

Every psychic that has ever been investigated has been found a fraud. There are even books that tell you how to do cold readings and other tricks to make you look psychic. Not one person claiming supernatural abilities or having witnessed paranormal phenomena have been able to prove their claims scientifically. If they had then Randi's million dollar prize (and others like it) would have been given out already.

Ghosts have been proven impossible by physicists. When the brain dies that's it. There is no mystcial energy that departs the body only to come back and screw with electronics, create drafts, make things go bump in the night, or otherwise just piss off surviving relatives. Think about it; why do ghosts always come back dressed? Do your old socks have a soul? Shouldn't all ghosts come back nekkid?

Those near death experiences have even been explained. It's just a trip caused by oxygen deprivation. People usually just get to have one when they die, but a few people get saved at the last second and get a preview of what will happen when their time really comes.

I'm not following you...

I'm lowering the tone...

There is only one way to respond to this.

Every psychic that has ever been investigated has been found a fraud. There are even books that tell you how to do cold readings and other tricks to make you look psychic. Not one person claiming supernatural abilities or having witnessed paranormal phenomena have been able to prove their claims scientifically. If they had then Randi's million dollar prize (and others like it) would have been given out already.

Ghosts have been proven impossible by physicists. When the brain dies that's it. There is no mystcial energy that departs the body only to come back and screw with electronics, create drafts, make things go bump in the night, or otherwise just piss off surviving relatives. Think about it; why do ghosts always come back dressed? Do your old socks have a soul? Shouldn't all ghosts come back nekkid?

Those near death experiences have even been explained. It's just a trip caused by oxygen deprivation. People usually just get to have one when they die, but a few people get saved at the last second and get a preview of what will happen when their time really comes.

did I say I believed in Ms. Cleo? Randi is a con-artist, and did it occur to you that offering money and press coverage to people who can actually prove this is like offering a lifetime supply of steak to a vegetarian? money is not a universal motivator. this is pointless, though, you'd argue it down if you saw something with your own eyes, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing this with you. have a blast believing whatever you want, I've said once that you're using simplistic arguments that don't accurately depict the beliefs you're criticizing, and going beyond that is futile. you may do a victory dance and erroneously assume I'm incapable of arguing with you now, because I have better things to do.

did I say I believed in Ms. Cleo? you'd argue it down if you saw something with your own eyes, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing this with you. have a blast believing whatever you want, I've said once that you're using simplistic arguments that don't accurately depict the beliefs you're criticizing, and going beyond that is futile. you may do a victory dance and erroneously assume I'm incapable of arguing with you now, because I have better things to do.

I preferred your post pre-edit rather than this attempt to justify running away

I'm lowering the tone...

oh, :fluffle:

That's fine. You just keep your head in the sand and avoid the truth of finality. You're entitled to your beliefs no matter how flawed they may be. Just don't cry foul when someone decides that they don't like people tricking people into believing in something as stupid as St. Nick (the saint of pawnbrokers), the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, or Mr. Hankey and publicly exposes it.

...Destroying respect for paranormal investigation...

That wound is pretty much self-inflicted.

its a board that young girls use to entertain themselves when at a slumber party.


if it turns out to be real and that is the way a spirit can contact the living im going to be pretty annoyed when im dead and the only conversation i can have with the living is talking to middle school girls about if a boy in their class thinks their cute or not

oh, :fluffle:

Bit vaguely though, depending on yer age.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Heart

have you ever played around with [a "ouija" board]


I prefer games that are fun, interesting and/or entertaining, while requiring some degree of thoughtful skill. Like Chess or Backgammon. Although when you play Chess or Backgammon on the computer, half the pieces move all by themselves! :eek:

Spooky.


what do you think about it


"A fool and his money are soon parted." (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum)

Which is why the Hasbro shareholders love the damn things (http://www.hasbro.com/games/default.cfm?page=Products/Detail&product_id=9470).


if it turns out to be real and that is the way a spirit can contact the living im going to be pretty annoyed when im dead and the only conversation i can have with the living is talking to middle school girls about if a boy in their class thinks their cute or not


There is a hell...

Like Dowsing, Ouija boards are an excellent example of the Ideomotor Effect (http://skepdic.com/ideomotor.html). They can be fun, but don't take them too seriously.

Randi is a con-artist

Bullshit, provide some evidence or take your slander elsewhere. A con-artist wouldn't use double-blind testing.

lol, its things like that that separate me from the strict atheist materialists...after that kind of thing people whining about logical inconsistencies in the bible "proving" spirituality doesn't exist just seem kind of ridiculous.

Can you show me even one atheist who's said that?

...provide some evidence...

Easy. Randi arrived at a conclusion the sheeple don't like.

QED. :D

I can prove they work because I'M A GHOST! WHOOOO....

*moves thread a little to the left*

Seriously they should make an online multi-player version of the board so that we can ask the board if it works or not. (I love doing that; FYI, more then half of em don't believe in themselves.)

Easy. Randi arrived at a conclusion the sheeple don't like.

QED. :D

Zing! :)

Can you show me even one atheist who's said that?

I'm sure many have, not that I know any names or support his previous general statement.

...There's no such thing as denial....

I can prove they work because I'M A GHOST! WHOOOO....

*moves thread a little to the left*

Seriously they should make an online multi-player version of the board so that we can ask the board if it works or not. (I love doing that; FYI, more then half of em don't believe in themselves.)

:eek:

*sprinkles thread with holy water*

Seriously they should make an online multi-player version of the board so that we can ask the board if it works or not. (I love doing that; FYI, more then half of em don't believe in themselves.)


Ceci n'est pas une Ouija


*sprinkles thread with holy water*


The burning is love.

I'm sure many have, not that I know any names or support his previous general statement.

...There's no such thing as denial....

I'm sure there are many atheists who've said that contradictions in the Bible disprove the Christian God, but I doubt that anyone who's had any exposure to other religions and philosophies would say that Biblical errors disprove all gods or 'spirituality'.

That said, 'Spirituality' is a very poorly defined word.

:eek:

*sprinkles thread with holy water*

What kind of holy water? :p

What do people who aren't Christian do to get rid of ghosts and stuff? Cause all the supernatural cures seem to be either the cross or holy water.

What do people who aren't Christian do to get rid of ghosts and stuff?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Ghostbusterspeople.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters)

What kind of holy water? :p

This particular water has passed through the bladders of seven Popes, two chief Rabbis, one Grand Mufti, and a small hedgehog called Derek: it don't get much holier. :D

it don't get much holier. :D

Short of an actual hole, anyway. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ice_fishing_in_miljoonapilkki_fishing_competition.jpg)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Ghostbusterspeople.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters)

ROFL! Oh yah....

This particular water has passed through the bladders of seven Popes, two chief Rabbis, one Grand Mufti, and a small hedgehog called Derek: it don't get much holier. :D

Oh, Ok so I'm dead then... again... or whatever happens to ghosts whenh you throw water at them.

What do people who aren't Christian do to get rid of ghosts and stuff? Cause all the supernatural cures seem to be either the cross or holy water.[/QUOTE]

Sage and a feather!

There was a woman on 'Haunted' who called in a Native American Shaman, he told her to use a feather and burn some sage. She had to call the Shaman up a couple of times, he never came back to the house, just told her to use more sage and be a bit more vigorous with the feather. (Somehow I got the feeling he was humouring her) but it worked!
I was left wondering if 'Glade' or 'Ambi-Pur' would have worked quicker though.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/Ghostbusterspeople.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters)

Damn right! Christians have to make do with their holy water, but we get NUCLEAR POWERED RAY GUNS! Oh yeah!

Janine Melnitz: Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?
Winston Zeddemore: Ah, if there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say.

There is a hell...

New Jersey. :p

I've never played with one, I'd like to try in full daylight though. Minimize backfiring effects:rolleyes:

New Jersey. :p

Hey!

Oh wait, you're right :(

this is pointless, though, you'd argue it down if you saw something with your own eyes, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by arguing this with you. have a blast believing whatever you want, I've said once that you're using simplistic arguments that don't accurately depict the beliefs you're criticizing, and going beyond that is futile. you may do a victory dance and erroneously assume I'm incapable of arguing with you now, because I have better things to do.

This entire section of post (it's idea, to be specific) could be turned right back to you with, say, just as much relevance as it has now...

Ghosts have been proven impossible by physicists. When the brain dies that's it. There is no mystcial energy that departs the body only to come back and screw with electronics, create drafts, make things go bump in the night, or otherwise just piss off surviving relatives. Think about it; why do ghosts always come back dressed? Do your old socks have a soul? Shouldn't all ghosts come back nekkid?


Citations, please?

I find it funny how anyone can claim to know what happens and doesn't happen after someone dies, since the only ones who know for sure are dead.

If you don't believe in the supernatural: you're getting in touch with your unconscious mind and that can be very uncomfortable and even mess you up if you uncover something you're not ready for.

If you do believe in the supernatural: It's a doorway, and you don't get to control what you invite in.

Either way -- bad idea.

If you do believe in the supernatural, then why wouldn't you get to control what you invite in? I control what forces I invite whenever I cast a circle after all . . .

I seriously LOL when I find atheists who believe in ghosts.

Why would ghosts require a god?

If you do believe in the supernatural, then why wouldn't you get to control what you invite in? I control what forces I invite whenever I cast a circle after all . . .

Do most thirteen year old girls know the first thing about protective circles?

Why would ghosts require a god?

they don't, neither does being religious require a god, but most of the rabid atheists I meet are very "you can't prove it so it's illogical to believe it" and then they turn around and are "ZOMG! My room is haunted!" and I have to LOL because like yeah.

What kind of holy water? :p

What do people who aren't Christian do to get rid of ghosts and stuff? Cause all the supernatural cures seem to be either the cross or holy water.

Many religions bless water, oil, wine, or other substances. As for the cross, substitute the holy symbol of the religion in question in most cases. Or sacrifice a goat/chicken/other small animal for those few religions that still practice blood sacrifice (in this case one would usually transfer the spirit/curse/illness/whatever into the animal before sacrificing it. In this case the sacrifice would not be cooked and eaten as is common practice in such ceremonies).

Do most thirteen year old girls know the first thing about protective circles?

I suppose that would depend on the 13 year old girl in question. Bottom line, if you think you have a device that will connect you with ghosts or other non-physical beings then treat it like any other device that requires specialized training to use safely.

What kind of holy water? :p

What do people who aren't Christian do to get rid of ghosts and stuff? Cause all the supernatural cures seem to be either the cross or holy water.

my friend who is a native American burns herbs and crap to chase away bad spirits......he uses a drum for something too.....

Citations, please?

I find it funny how anyone can claim to know what happens and doesn't happen after someone dies, since the only ones who know for sure are dead.
Penn & Tellers Bullshit!
Season 1
Episode 12
Ouija Boards / Near Death Experiences
April 11, 2003
Challenges the Ouija board and investigates the nature of near-death experiences.

Season 3
Episode 10
Ghostbusters
July 11, 2005
Accuses ghosthunters of conducting pseudoscience. Dr. Steven Novella, an academic neurologist at Yale and president of the NESS and Frank Wilczek, a Nobel prize-winning theoretical physicist appear.

Nearly as informative as a documentary and much more entertaining because of the excessive profanity and magic tricks. It turns out that you can get the same high of a NDE by huffing.

Why would ghosts require a god?

Why would one not believe in one set of supernatural things but believe in a different type of supernatural things?

I tried once with my mom and started moving it myself. Didn't really get aswers either way...or we gave up quickly. I think it's a load of bull.

Penn & Tellers Bullshit!
Season 1
Episode 12
Ouija Boards / Near Death Experiences
April 11, 2003
Challenges the Ouija board and investigates the nature of near-death experiences.

Season 3
Episode 10
Ghostbusters
July 11, 2005
Accuses ghosthunters of conducting pseudoscience. Dr. Steven Novella, an academic neurologist at Yale and president of the NESS and Frank Wilczek, a Nobel prize-winning theoretical physicist appear.

Nearly as informative as a documentary and much more entertaining because of the excessive profanity and magic tricks. It turns out that you can get the same high of a NDE by huffing.

A single source, of which I'm not concerned about Ouija Boards or NDE, since your claim was ghosts were proven to not exist.

And I assume this source concretely proves that after death there is no residual energy of a persons "life force" or "soul" that lingers? I also assume this source conducts its own investigation of sites deemed "haunted" in an effort to show conflicting evidence or lack thereof?

And I assume this source concretely proves that after death there is no residual energy of a persons "life force" or "soul" that lingers?

What should they be looking for, anyways? Do they run around with ECGs looking for brainwaves? What? How would it be proved to you there's no residual energy?

I obviously don't believe Ouija boards really work. I've used one before with friends after a nice night of drinking and I was the asshole who freaked them out by spelling out messages.

I obviously don't believe Ouija boards really work. I've used one before with friends after a nice night of drinking and I was the asshole who freaked them out by spelling out messages.

And for that you have gained several cool points.

Why would one not believe in one set of supernatural things but believe in a different type of supernatural things?

I believe in gods but not unicorns. Why would somebody who's never been to either believe Cleavland exists but not Narnia?

What should they be looking for, anyways? Do they run around with ECGs looking for brainwaves? What? How would it be proved to you there's no residual energy?

Perhaps a better question is, what proof is there that there ISN'T residual energy? If someone is going to make a claim that ghosts are fake, then presenting some evidence to support that claim is required, no?

For that matter, I don't believe anyone can prove or disprove ghosts existing, though the former does seem easier to be able to. There are just certain things in this world that cannot be explained in places like supposedly haunted castles, where there are no electronic devices in the structure that give off EMF's that mess with your head or anything of the sort.

I just find it hard to believe that science and self proclaimed 'experts' can definitively say that ghosts do not exist, and usually they themselves do not conduct an investigation to be able to come to that conclusion. They themselves do not run their own tests to gather data, but if I'm wrong I'd certainly love to see their results.

I believe in gods but not unicorns. Why would somebody who's never been to either believe Cleavland exists but not Narnia?

There is more evidence for gods than unicorns?

EDIT: I'll take this no further for fear of thread jacking

I believe in gods but not unicorns. Why would somebody who's never been to either believe Cleavland exists but not Narnia?

But believing and not believing are two different animals. If you're an atheist then one assumes you have a good reason for being so. Why would the reasoning that leads you to believe there are no gods/not believe in gods not also lead you to believe there are no ghosts, etc/not believe in ghosts, etc?

A single source, of which I'm not concerned about Ouija Boards or NDE, since your claim was ghosts were proven to not exist.

And I assume this source concretely proves that after death there is no residual energy of a persons "life force" or "soul" that lingers? I also assume this source conducts its own investigation of sites deemed "haunted" in an effort to show conflicting evidence or lack thereof?
Actually...yes. Yes, the episode on ghostbusters/ghosthunters does investigate the claims of people who claim to chase ghosts. One of the favorite tools of the ghosthunter is the EMF detector but the places that are investigated have lights that are turned on and wall sockets lining the walls.

The only "evidence" of ghosts are poor photos with some lense flair (that they claim are something called orbs), electrical fields common throughout the world, apparent sounds and paterns that some people hear in background noise and see in shadows, failure of unreliable electronic equipment, readings from uncalibrated beeping meters not designed to detect ghosts, and other easily explained shit.

Not only are there factual inaccuracies in the claims of ghosthunters/ghostbusters, there are also logical ones. Ghosts should not come back clothed because clothing does not have a soul unless its a zombie t-shit. If un-baptized aborted kids and your pets go to hell then why should your pants get into the afterlife with you? And if you do get to take your clothes with you then shouldn't you be stuck with what you were wearing when you died, bullet holes and bloodstains or whatever?

If you hear hoof beats do you immediately think zeebra or horse?

Perhaps a better question is, what proof is there that there ISN'T residual energy? If someone is going to make a claim that ghosts are fake, then presenting some evidence to support that claim is required, no?
No, burden of proof is on the person claiming there are ghosts. People who set out to disprove the existence of ghosts are, to use the vernacular, doin it rong.

For that matter, I don't believe anyone can prove or disprove ghosts existing, though the former does seem easier to be able to. There are just certain things in this world that cannot be explained in places like supposedly haunted castles, where there are no electronic devices in the structure that give off EMF's that mess with your head or anything of the sort.
What makes you so sure they can't be explained?

I just find it hard to believe that science and self proclaimed 'experts' can definitively say that ghosts do not exist, and usually they themselves do not conduct an investigation to be able to come to that conclusion. They themselves do not run their own tests to gather data, but if I'm wrong I'd certainly love to see their results.
If they make such claims without evidence then they're pretty crappy scientists.

they don't, neither does being religious require a god, but most of the rabid atheists I meet are very "you can't prove it so it's illogical to believe it" and then they turn around and are "ZOMG! My room is haunted!" and I have to LOL because like yeah.

I know what you mean. When I first became an atheist I replaced for my belief in God with belief in just about everything else: ghosts, UFOs, pretty much every conspiracy theory ever made (Kennedy, Roswell, the 'faked' moon landings). In my defense, I was only eleven at the time and I didn't know any better. :p As I got older I began to apply my scepticism more consistently and eventually became the hardened, cynical person I am today. :)

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/2f/Brick_trinity.jpg
Obi-Wan, Santa Claus, and the Holy Ghost.

Ouija Board should be made into a competitive sport.

Or a drinking game.

Assign a drink to each letter of the alphabet.

Ouija Board should be made into a competitive sport.

Or a drinking game.

I can go to Cleveland if I want, show me Narnia.

The key point here is the possibility of falsification: my claim that Cleveland exists can be falsified because if someone travels to the place where it's supposed to be and finds nothing then we know it doesn't exist; there's no way to falsify the existence of Narnia.

Start checking the wardrobes of old houses in England and Ireland!


OH GOD! MY POST MOVED! THIS THREAD IS HAUNTED!

I believe in gods but not unicorns. Why would somebody who's never been to either believe Cleavland exists but not Narnia?

I can go to Cleveland if I want, show me Narnia.

The key point here is the possibility of falsification: my claim that Cleveland exists can be falsified because if someone travels to the place where it's supposed to be and finds nothing then we know it doesn't exist; there's no way to falsify the existence of Narnia.

Actually...yes. Yes, the episode on ghostbusters/ghosthunters does investigate the claims of people who claim to chase ghosts. One of the favorite tools of the ghosthunter is the EMF detector but the places that are investigated have lights that are turned on and wall sockets lining the walls.

The only "evidence" of ghosts are poor photos with some lense flair (that they claim are something called orbs), electrical fields common throughout the world, apparent sounds and paterns that some people hear in background noise and see in shadows, failure of unreliable electronic equipment, readings from uncalibrated beeping meters not designed to detect ghosts, and other easily explained shit.

Not only are there factual inaccuracies in the claims of ghosthunters/ghostbusters, there are also logical ones. Ghosts should not come back clothed because clothing does not have a soul unless its a zombie t-shit. If un-baptized aborted kids and your pets go to hell then why should your pants get into the afterlife with you? And if you do get to take your clothes with you then shouldn't you be stuck with what you were wearing when you died, bullet holes and bloodstains or whatever?

If you hear hoof beats do you immediately think zeebra or horse?

One theory behind your pants argument is called a "residual haunting", which is basically an event that replays itself over and over again without any sort of awareness of its surroundings. Somewhere, somehow this imprint of energy is left usually after a traumatic event, which is why people who visit Gettysburg say they see soldiers marching about and whatnot, same goes for other claims of these kinds of activity. A residual ghost will repeat its motions without knowledge that a location has changed and doesn't interact with anything. Which means if someone got brutally murdered and that event somehow got imprinted on the space-time whateverthefucknerdscallit, they would appear as they were, bullet holes and all.

Another explaination is that those people are simply lying. Since ghosts logically are energy (lacking a physical body), they would appear as more or less a blob of some sort, though I suppose physical features would remain and be visible. But since I'm no 'expert', I can't say.

But I've heard accounts of footsteps on wooden floors inside stone castles were there are no wood floors, lights appearing where there are no sources, and other shit that I suppose could be easily explained....if it were not for the usual sources being strangely lacking.

I do believe in ghosts, but I don't believe every story I hear because I do think most people who claim to have seen ghosts are shitheads who lie and want attention, or there is a simple explaination. I happen to be a somewhat skeptical believer in that I don't believe certain evidence and think no ghost photos are real, since 'orbs' are dust particles and 'ectoplasm' is exhaled breath or cigarette smoke. I usually don't put much faith into a claim of activity unless there's some pretty compelling evidence that's hard to explain, because I do think there are things in this world that science simply cannot make a ruling on one way or another.

If they make such claims without evidence then they're pretty crappy scientists.

If you have links I would definately be interested in seeing what they have.

If you have links I would definately be interested in seeing what they have.

As would I, but I lack any links.

because I do think there are things in this world that science simply cannot make a ruling on one way or another.


.........yet

This just in! Professor Montgomery just disproved ghosts using a molecular detachment scanner!

Then he died and came back as a ghost to tell us he made a miscalculation.

Sorry Atheists, looks like ghosts win this round. ;)

But believing and not believing are two different animals. If you're an atheist then one assumes you have a good reason for being so. Why would the reasoning that leads you to believe there are no gods/not believe in gods not also lead you to believe there are no ghosts, etc/not believe in ghosts, etc?

The reasoning that if there were a god or gods that it or they would not allow the evil and suffering that goes on in this world (which is the reasoning of many of the Atheists I know) does not preclude the existence of other supernatural beings or forces.

Well my thinking is, if power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, then Gods are the most corrupt entities in the universe. Therefore, why not allow evil every once in a while? As a show of force perhaps.

I thought the topic was about Ouija Boards....

Opps.. Your right.

Sorry for threadjacking. :(

One theory behind your pants argument is called a "residual haunting", which is basically an event that replays itself over and over again without any sort of awareness of its surroundings. Somewhere, somehow this imprint of energy is left usually after a traumatic event, which is why people who visit Gettysburg say they see soldiers marching about and whatnot, same goes for other claims of these kinds of activity. A residual ghost will repeat its motions without knowledge that a location has changed and doesn't interact with anything. Which means if someone got brutally murdered and that event somehow got imprinted on the space-time whateverthefucknerdscallit, they would appear as they were, bullet holes and all.
Ya. Sure. Okay. Heh heh. What kind of energy is that; electical, potential, nuclear, thermal, chemical, or kinetic? Oh wait, it must be spiritual because that is sooo scientific and has sooo much evidence backing it up. In fact, you can cure cancer, make your dick bigger, and get rich quickly just by thinking positively.

What makes you think that just because civilized humans think and event is tragic and traumatic the rest of the universe will? How does the manner in which someone is killed make a holographic video replay of their death? Why should that even matter? And if that were true then why would you be able to see it? The Earth rotates on axis and revolves around a star that revolves around a galaxy that is moving through the universe. If there is a play by play of rape deaths then shouldn't they be going on way out in the black?

Another explaination is that those people are simply lying. Since ghosts logically are energy (lacking a physical body), they would appear as more or less a blob of some sort, though I suppose physical features would remain and be visible. But since I'm no 'expert', I can't say.
A vast, seemingly meteorlogical lifeform on a Jovian I could believe because cells of a feather stick together and there is no knowledge of extrasolar systems (though its unlikely). Pure energy is another matter (sorry for the pun). Since it doesn't come from nowhere there has to be something producing it, something that stored it, something material.

But I've heard accounts of footsteps on wooden floors inside stone castles were there are no wood floors, lights appearing where there are no sources, and other shit that I suppose could be easily explained....if it were not for the usual sources being strangely lacking.
LIEZ! and trickery. Sounds can be mistaken for similar ones. I'd 'liek 2 c' those accounts and the investigation that determined it such things couldn't be explained away.

I do believe in ghosts, but I don't believe every story I hear because I do think most people who claim to have seen ghosts are shitheads who lie and want attention, or there is a simple explaination. I happen to be a somewhat skeptical believer in that I don't believe certain evidence and think no ghost photos are real, since 'orbs' are dust particles and 'ectoplasm' is exhaled breath or cigarette smoke. I usually don't put much faith into a claim of activity unless there's some pretty compelling evidence that's hard to explain, because I do think there are things in this world that science simply cannot make a ruling on one way or another.
You see, in science extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Science is all about meticulous observation of the world to understand the mechanisms that "make it go" as the Pakleds would say. Everything can be explained by science. If you took the time to investigate every claim of a ghost it could be easily explained away as a lie, a hoax, or a misunderstanding due to a lack of knowledge of the physical world. There are a lot of things that people used to and still do claim are paranormal or supernatural events that can be done in a lab with gadgets and would appear to be magic or mysticism to those that don't understand the principles behind their operation.

Start checking the wardrobes of old houses in England and Ireland!


OH GOD! MY POST MOVED! THIS THREAD IS HAUNTED!

Winner of thread? :D

.........yet

Amen to that.
*bows*

Science can't and never will be able to explain everything. That's when faith is required. Scientists have been working on ways to disprove ghosts for centuries and have come up with very little. For now when dealing with ghosts I take the approach that until science has dis-proven their existence we must rely on other sources.

Science and Faith are like the shoes you wear; you can get farther on both then with one alone.

Science can't and never will be able to explain everything. That's when faith is required. Scientists have been working on ways to disprove ghosts for centuries and have come up with very little. For now when dealing with ghosts I take the approach that until science has dis-proven their existence we must rely on other sources.

Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot)

Change the wording a bit and it applies to this as well

Science can't and never will be able to explain everything. That's when faith is required. Scientists have been working on ways to disprove ghosts for centuries and have come up with very little. For now when dealing with ghosts I take the approach that until science has dis-proven their existence we must rely on other sources.
That's not how science or faith work. Science demands that something be proven. Faith demands that you believe in something in the face of proof to the contrary. Science can explain everything that can be observed and even some things that cannot.

Don't forget, tonight is Coast to Coast AM Ouija Board night!

Link to site! (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/)

Faith demands that you believe in something in the face of proof to the contrary.
Faith demands that you belief without direct proof, not that you believe in the face of proof to the contrary.

Faith demands that you belief without direct proof, not that you believe in the face of proof to the contrary.
There was a time when I would have made tha very statement. Then I learned about the Shroud of Turin and how even in the face of overwhelming evidence (carbon dating) that it was a forgery from the middle ages (or was it Middle Earth?:p) it still gets called the real deal.

What do people who aren't Christian do to get rid of ghosts and stuff? Cause all the supernatural cures seem to be either the cross or holy water.


A nice little invention called a shotgun. Or a chainsaw. Or both.

Lets see... Religion had the right idea about life after death. Humans are basically energy in shells, and energy can't be destroyed. Everything else is a pure load od BS

There was a time when I would have made tha very statement. Then I learned about the Shroud of Turin and how even in the face of overwhelming evidence (carbon dating) that it was a forgery from the middle ages (or was it Middle Earth?:p) it still gets called the real deal.

that's not faith, that's stupidity. I haven't ever heard anything other than "fraud" about the shroud.

also, look at it like this

my husband has faith that I won't cheat on him, even though he doesn't have a way to prove I won't.

my cousin's wife has "faith" that he won't cheat on her even though he does, frequently.

one of those is good faith, the other is stupidity masquerading as faith.

Bah! He didn't go through with it!

Smunkee, that's not faith, it's trust. I often find myself lacking both. Some say it makes me a cold-hearted bastard but the jokes on them. I've got both parents.

Lets see... Religion had the right idea about life after death. Humans are basically energy in shells, and energy can't be destroyed. Everything else is a pure load od BS
What kind of energy? How has that even been proven? What about other life?

You can't just make up shit and say it's for real, you need evidence supporting it or what you're doing is blind faith and that is really stupid.

Bah! He didn't go through with it!

What?!

Seriously, he was in the room with his three buddies fully prepared to do it. Some guy cast a spell of protection and his other was wimpering in the corner, "Don't do this! This is wrong! I'm only here because you ask me to be here! Et cetra." The he pussed out.

Lets see... Religion had the right idea about life after death. Humans are basically energy in shells, and energy can't be destroyed. Everything else is a pure load od BS

Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but it can change from one kind of energy to another. After death, the energy contained in the body is released into the soil as it's broken down by bacteria; there's nothing supernatural about it.

Smunkee, that's not faith, it's trust. I often find myself lacking both. Some say it makes me a cold-hearted bastard but the jokes on them. I've got both parents.

yeah, I picked a poor analogy/example thingy.

lets say I have faith in God despite direct truth, I have no evidence to the contrary.

Once you have evidence to the contrary it's really not faith so much anymore.

Seriously, he was in the room with his three buddies fully prepared to do it. Some guy cast a spell of protection and his other was wimpering in the corner, "Don't do this! This is wrong! I'm only here because you ask me to be here! Et cetra." The he pussed out.

I know, and what's worse is that he thinks that a bunch of coincidences was caused because of him wanting to play with the Ouija Board. I mean comon, those people would've got stuck on top of the stupid Arc no matter what George Noorey was doing!

Bah, what....a....ripoff! Ever since June I've been hearing about this great show, oh tune in tonight, George is going to play with an Ouija Board, and on and on, and then the night comes and he doesn't do it! Bah!

Ya. Sure. Okay. Heh heh. What kind of energy is that; electical, potential, nuclear, thermal, chemical, or kinetic? Oh wait, it must be spiritual because that is sooo scientific and has sooo much evidence backing it up.

So it is your asertation that we are capable, with modern equipment, of detecting every form of energy in the universe and that there are no forms of energy that have yet to be discovered?

It's all about method, really. To claim the mass-produced toy has power in and of itself is ridiculous. The notion of it involving the unconscious mind - as well as the notion of it involving spirits - isn't a good idea without (depending on your belief) someone with skill in that area around. Bottom line, the people that could and would be able to use an Ouija board to ACTUALLY do anything worthwhile without harm wouldn't NEED said board to either access their subconscious or summon (and prevent damage from) spirits.

It's all about method, really. To claim the mass-produced toy has power in and of itself is ridiculous.
I've been through numerous Ouija-related sites and have found that many people claim that you can make your own Ouija board and have it work just as accurately, and thus the mass-produced version is no better than any others, assuming you believe that they work. I think Ouija boards are fun, but not to be taken seriously. Even if they are really working, the spirit is probably just trying to screw with your thoughts. :rolleyes:

Personally if I was a ghost, and I got summoned up to a teenage girl's sleepover party because Brittney wanted to see if Brad "like-likes" her, Ohh boy I would just traumatized them for the rest of their lives.

Yes, I am a cynical reclusive bastard in this life, and I will be a cynical reclusive bastard in the next. *nods*

Personally if I was a ghost, and I got summoned up to a teenage girl's sleepover party because Brittney wanted to see if Brad "like-likes" her, Ohh boy I would just traumatized them for the rest of their lives.

Yes, I am a cynical reclusive bastard in this life, and I will be a cynical reclusive bastard in the next. *nods*

Oh this could be a LOT of fun in the next life assuming that this were true.
"No Britney, Brad hates you because you are a fake whiny whore. Also, you're ugly. Goodbye and stop asking dumbass questions.":p

Oh this could be a LOT of fun in the next life assuming that this were true.
"No Britney, Brad hates you because you are a fake whiny whore. Also, you're ugly. Goodbye and stop asking dumbass questions.":p

Nah, I would find some way for them to be at each other throat and just sit back and laugh.

Nah, I would find some way for them to be at each other throat and just sit back and laugh.
Whatever. Either way would be funny. I would simply enjoy mentally torturing the little girls and giving them useless, not to mention false, "advice". :)

Why would one not believe in one set of supernatural things but believe in a different type of supernatural things?
Why should ghosts be supernatural?

If ghosts would exist there would logically have to be a natural mechanism that allows them to exist.

Coincidentally, same goes for g/God(s): If g/God(s) exist she/he/it/they have to be of natural world in a sense that the mechanic which would allow such a being to exist would have to be, well, natural.

In vein of the quote by A. C. Clarke: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

A theory I've come up with is that God is collective humanity from the far future, similar to the Transcendence in Stephen Baxter's Transcendent.