NationStates Jolt Archive

...OK, when me and Il Ruffino do the whole 'anti-semitic paranoid rant' thing, it's funny because it's satire.

...when you do it, it's pathetic because you hate Jews.I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them, so they are in fact an irrelevant group. What is really unfortunate for humanity is that their bad ideology was spread by Christianity to the global level (including their attitude towards sex).

I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them

Thank Yah? I think you mean thank Hitler.

And he never said he "hated" Jews either. No one hated Jews. With cool, "Aryan" feigned detachment he merely dehumanized and mass-murdered them.

So yeah, go on "rejecting" them, like a good little anti-semite. My point remains.

I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them, so they are in fact an irrelevant group. What is really unfortunate for humanity is that their bad ideology was spread by Christianity to the global level (including their attitude towards sex).

And yet you seem to have no qualms when some of the same issues pop up in relation to Catholicism.

Woah guys, is this about religion or sexuality now?

Let's stick to one volatile subject at a time, shall we?

Thank Yah? I think you mean thank Hitler.
And he never said he "hated" Jews either. No one hated Jews. With cool, "Aryan" feigned detachment he merely dehumanized and mass-murdered them.
So yeah, go on "rejecting" them, like a good little anti-semite. My point remains.You almost sound as if you considered anti-semitism a negative thing. And why do you refer to Hitler now? Or "Aryans" (as if something like Aryans in the nazi interpretation ever existed) ? Because you can think of no other reason to not find Judaism to have any value than what Hitler may have thought? Can you not imagine that someone rejects Judaism because of what's in the Tanakh, the Talmud, and ancient history? Judaism was a bad ideology way before anyone like Hitler existed. You see, the natural opposite of Judaism and subsequently Jewishness isn't national socialism, but emancipation from abrahamic religions.
And yet you seem to have no qualms when some of the same issues pop up in relation to Catholicism.What issues? Issues about sexuality? Well, guess where Catholics copied their positions on sexuality from. They use the same Old Testament, don't they? They pray to the Jew-ish god and follow his rules, don't they?

You almost sound as if you considered anti-semitism a negative thing.

You almost sound like you're convinced being an anti-semite is a negative thing - even when you clearly have no qualms being one. So, why the argument? Why not just nod and say, "Ja, I'm an anti-semite. I hate the Jews."

And why do you refer to Hitler now?

You referred to being thankful for the small number of Jews. Hitler contributed to the small number of Jews. You are an anti-semite. Hitler was an anti-semite.

Kinda seems relevant somehow. Maybe you can think about it with your ubermensch brain and connect the dots.

Because you can think of no other reason to not find Judaism to have any value than what Hitler may have thought?

Miss - see above.

Can you not imagine that someone rejects Judaism because of what's in the Tanakh, the Talmud, and ancient history? Judaism was a bad ideology way before anyone like Hitler existed.

And Jew-hating was a bad ideology before Hitler too.

But I don't expect you to see that, since you're fucked in the head, much like all anti-semitic garbage.

You see, the natural opposite of Judaism and subsequently Jewishness isn't national socialism, but emancipation from abrahamic religions.

And yet that's what National Socialism intended to do. Get rid of "Jewishness" and get back to the good old days of "Aryan" purity. So you may not be a socialist (though you probably are) or a nationalist (though you probably are) but you're certainly a nazi. I'm done with you.

*snip*

Your perspective is obviously somewhat narrowed to Jews and Nazis as making up the entire population on the planet, using Nazi synonymously for non-Jew. Very interesting. And one has to be "fucked in the head" to find Judaism disgusting? Very interesting as well. And so ridiculous. Read the Tanakh from a neutral point of view, and you'll quickly discover that it's complete ideological rubbish and everything that ever came from it ideologically is rubbish as well. The biblical god is (pretty obviously) a fabrication, and subsequently Judaism and Jewishness are vain and empty.

Oh, and your talk of "Aryan" purity (whatever that may be) is really stupid. Sounds a lot like you bought the Nazi shit for real.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, here's a handy little guide to get you through this current threadjack. Ready? Here we go.

We live in a world that is run by an oligarchy of Jews. Those Jews force out all other sexualities and put heterosexuality in the spotlight. The Jews are why heterosexuality is a big deal.

Satire.

Fine dining?

Are you a Jew?

Satire.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me. Get away from me.

http://abakim.fotopages.com/images/smilies/scared.gif

Obviously satire.

I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them, so they are in fact an irrelevant group. What is really unfortunate for humanity is that their bad ideology was spread by Christianity to the global level (including their attitude towards sex).

Horseshit.

You almost sound as if you considered anti-semitism a negative thing. And why do you refer to Hitler now? Or "Aryans" (as if something like Aryans in the nazi interpretation ever existed) ? Because you can think of no other reason to not find Judaism to have any value than what Hitler may have thought? Can you not imagine that someone rejects Judaism because of what's in the Tanakh, the Talmud, and ancient history? Judaism was a bad ideology way before anyone like Hitler existed. You see, the natural opposite of Judaism and subsequently Jewishness isn't national socialism, but emancipation from abrahamic religions.
What issues? Issues about sexuality? Well, guess where Catholics copied their positions on sexuality from. They use the same Old Testament, don't they? They pray to the Jew-ish god and follow his rules, don't they?

Horseshit.

Your perspective is obviously somewhat narrowed to Jews and Nazis as making up the entire population on the planet, using Nazi synonymously for non-Jew. Very interesting. And one has to be "fucked in the head" to find Judaism disgusting? Very interesting as well. And so ridiculous. Read the Tanakh from a neutral point of view, and you'll quickly discover that it's complete ideological rubbish and everything that ever came from it ideologically is rubbish as well. The biblical god is (pretty obviously) a fabrication, and subsequently Judaism and Jewishness are vain and empty.

Oh, and your talk of "Aryan" purity (whatever that may be) is really stupid. Sounds a lot like you bought the Nazi shit for real.

Aaaaaand horseshit.

I hope I've helped clear that up for any of you who might have wondered where the original topic went. Thanks, and so long!

Horseshit.
Horseshit.
Aaaaaand horseshit.Then the facts are horseshit. Some people just cannot accept the way things really are. Judaism and Jewishness are the horseshit, and have been for 2300+ years. The biblical god is a fabrication and thus Judaism is a lie. That puts all Jewishness and its chosen-seed-shit into the same category as national socialism and its Herrenmensch crap.

Then the facts are horseshit. Some people just cannot accept the way things really are. Judaism and Jewishness are the horseshit, and have been for 2300+ years. The biblical god is a fabrication and thus Judaism is a lie. That puts all Jewishness and its chosen-seed-shit into the same category as national socialism and its Herrenmensch crap.

Seems to me like you're the one with the reality problem.

You're basing your entire tirade on an opinion, and it's not even a very convincing version of anti-Semitism. Go peddle your unreasoning jackbooted hatred somewhere else.

Seems to me like you're the one with the reality problem.

You're basing your entire tirade on an opinion, and it's not even a very convincing version of anti-Semitism. Go peddle your unreasoning jackbooted hatred somewhere else.


What's funny is he pretends he has no emotional attachment yet he HAS to tell people about how important it is to destroy Judaism and everything that came from it. It doesn't matter if it's on topic or it's the middle of a couple of guys joking or how irrational it is to insert it.

Then when someone calls him out on it and compares his hatred for judaism to antisemitism he pulls a strawman out of his behind about how that person says you either have to be jewish or a nazi.

One wonders why, if his view is so rational, he makes such an effort to not express it rationally. Instead it's very important to him that he put a giant signature in about non-existence of the subject of those religions (which of course is impossible to prove) and he has to write everything in a way that is designed to keep the conversation away from the rational like "jew-ish" and the various other little UBisms we've come to count on.

Good thing he's emotionally detached from the whole thing.

What's funny is he pretends he has no emotional attachment yet he HAS to tell people about how important it is to destroy Judaism and everything that came from it. It doesn't matter if it's on topic or it's the middle of a couple of guys joking or how irrational it is to insert it.

Then when someone calls him out on it and compares his hatred for judaism to antisemitism he pulls a strawman out of his behind about how that person says you either have to be jewish or a nazi.

One wonders why, if his view is so rational, he makes such an effort to not express it rationally. Instead it's very important to him that he put a giant signature in about non-existence of the subject of those religions (which of course is impossible to prove) and he has to write everything in a way that is designed to keep the conversation away from the rational like "jew-ish" and the various other little UBisms we've come to count on.

Good thing he's emotionally detached from the whole thing.

Good Lord -- you know what this means, don't you?

DAVE SIM IS ON NSG!

Your perspective is obviously somewhat narrowed to Jews and Nazis as making up the entire population on the planet, using Nazi synonymously for non-Jew.

No, I use Nazi synonymously for ANTI-SEMITE. If you can't read English, don't bother replying.

And one has to be "fucked in the head" to find Judaism disgusting?

You're fucked in the head. I'm not making any hard rules, just an observation.I suppose there are others who might hate "Jewishness" without being fucked in the head, but that's irrelevant - you hate, and you're fucked in the head.

Oh, and your talk of "Aryan" purity (whatever that may be) is really stupid. Sounds a lot like you bought the Nazi shit for real.

Oh yes, I'm a Jewish Nazi. How'd you guess? Damn, you're fucking smart.

Seems to me like you're the one with the reality problem.
You're basing your entire tirade on an opinion, and it's not even a very convincing version of anti-Semitism. Go peddle your unreasoning jackbooted hatred somewhere else.What's an opinion? That the biblical god is a fabrication? Yes, just as calling the sky blue is one.
Judaism is the same kind of crap as Mormonism or Scientology, only that the texts with the made-up stuff were written somewhat earlier than the Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard shit. It has the exact same quality and exact same value: null.
And as for the issue of this thread: would there be such a discussion if the values of Judaism had not been spread by Christianity? All the sexual morals derive from the narrow-mindedness of the bible and its originators, we didn't get sexual restrictions from Romans, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Sumerians, but from a tiny group of fanatic Jews who happened to have their ideology brought to the global scale by the followers of one particular Jew. Why are people cursing the Vatican and its restrictive views on sexuality? And also other churches? It's because of the old biblical Jewish teachings, nothing more.

Then the facts are horseshit. Some people just cannot accept the way things really are. Judaism and Jewishness are the horseshit, and have been for 2300+ years. The biblical god is a fabrication and thus Judaism is a lie. That puts all Jewishness and its chosen-seed-shit into the same category as national socialism and its Herrenmensch crap.

Thats a meaningless statement. It's 100% based on opinion, you should not go around making meaningless assertions like that on an internet forum like this, because it's going to be picked apart straight away.

Protestancy is actually horse shit. King Henry made it up because he couldn't stand that the Pope wouldn't let him divorce his wives, and for some reason people still follow it today.
I mean, you can do it today without getting too much shit about it in normal Catholicism anyway, so why bother?

Protestancy is actually horse shit. King Henry made it up because he couldn't stand that the Pope wouldn't let him divorce his wives, and for some reason people still follow it today.

Hahahaha you make me laugh.

1) Henry was catholic

2) Martin Luther made Lutheranism, which is identified today as the first major protestant movements. Henry didn't despised this movement and certainly did not tolerate it. The Henrician church was nothing more then a catholic church without connection to the papacy.

3) UB is an atheist, so your post is irellavent.

I wasn't arguing about any specific board members.
And never mind, I was misinformed. Or at least I'm talking about the wrong King Henry...

Thats a meaningless statement. It's 100% based on opinion, you should not go around making meaningless assertions like that on an internet forum like this, because it's going to be picked apart straight away.If this is based on opinion and has no meaning then Judaism itself has no meaning because it 100% based on opinion as well, which is the unique opinion expressed in the bible (OT). History and archeology are devoid of any sources to support any of the claims that the bible makes in theological terms. Judaism popped into existence in that time when the bible was first assembled (in the Septuagint), there is no indication whatsoever that prior to that time anyone had worshiped Yah or El in the Jew-ish fashion, which subsequently means that nobody had interactions with the divine on the level that the bible claims. How do you explain the complete absence of anything that might hint at a kind of proto-Judaism and the abundance of evidence for worship in the style that was common throughout the Levant in ancient times? I have asked many times on this forum that someone may provide anything that would confirm any of the biblical statements on people's beliefs in ancient Israel and adjacent territories. Where is the evidence that YHVH was ever worshiped in Solomon's temple, and not rather Yah, El, Shamash, or Baal? Where is the evidence that Solomon's temple existed at all?

3) UB is an atheist, so your post is irellavent.I am not an atheist, even if you would label all who do not follow the abrahamic religions thusly.

-snip-

I wasn't talking about you calling Judaism a lie. I was referring to you equating believing in something untrue (assuming it is) as the same as being a Nazi. This is completely subjective to opinion, and is nonsensical anyway.

I am not an atheist, even if you would label all who do not follow the abrahamic religions thusly.

Could have fooled me, but whatever, you certainly arn't a protestant which is the main point.

I wasn't talking about you calling Judaism a lie. I was referring to you equating believing in something untrue (assuming it is) as the same as being a Nazi. This is completely subjective to opinion, and is nonsensical anyway.Why? Nazis also believe(d) in something untrue. And how is the chosen-seed concept in Judaism any different form the Herrenmensch-concept of the Nazis? Isn't it basically the same insubstantial racist bs?

Why? Nazis also believe(d) in something untrue. And how is the chosen-seed concept in Judaism any different form the Herrenmensch-concept of the Nazis? Isn't it basically the same insubstantial racist bs?

I'm assuming by why you mean why is it nonsensical and not why is it subjective. They are different because Nazis support genocide, Judaism doesn't, I doubt you will find many Jew's at all that support genocide.

I'm assuming by why you mean why is it nonsensical and not why is it subjective. They are different because Nazis support genocide, Judaism doesn't, I doubt you will find many Jew's at all that support genocide.So the biblical Conquest of Canaan, which Jews hold true and righteous, is not genocide?
And I never considered the genocide aspect of the two ideologies, because that would only be the effect of the belief in the inequality of humans, which is at the core of both teachings. And given the chance, who knows what Jews would do (hint at modern Israel).

So the Conquest of Canaan, which Jews hold true and righteous, is not genocide?


Firstly, if you were to believe in this, you would have to literally believe that the people killed were deserving of death. You can either believe both or neither, you can't believe that they killed innocents. Secondly, it has nothing to do with what Jews support today.


And I never considered the genocide aspect of the two ideologies, because that would only be the effect of the belief in the inequality of humans, which is at the core of both teachings. And given the chance, who knows what Jews would do (hint at modern Israel).

The Jews from what I have seen seem to be less radical then Christians and Muslims in a political sense, they tend to very much stay out of politics. They don't believe that anything should be done to the non Jews, unlike Nazis who at least believe something should be done to non whites and Jew's etc...

Firstly, if you were to believe in this, you would have to literally believe that the people killed were deserving of death. You can either believe both or neither, you can't believe that they killed innocents. Secondly, it has nothing to do with what Jews support today.Oh, genocide comes in different qualities? It is the teaching of Judaism that the biblical Conquest of Canaan was right because it was the biblical God's will and because the victims were not of the right descent. In other words their ethnicity made them unworthy and indeed deserving of death. Isn't that what Judaism teaches? The entire ideology that only the chosen seed is inside God's grace is not any different than the Nazi's ideology that only the members of an assumed "Aryan" race are worthy of living.

The Jews from what I have seen seem to be less radical then Christians and Muslims in a political sense, they tend to very much stay out of politics. They don't believe that anything should be done to the non Jews, unlike Nazis who at least believe something should be done to non whites and Jew's etc...However, they believe that non-Jews are outside of God's grace and will be punished subsequently. So in a way both groups believe that those outside of their respective group do actually deserve death (cf. Elijah). That is the common attitude, and it really does not matter much that Jews wait for their God to do away with the gentiles instead of doing it themselves. It's the mindset that counts.

Il Ruffino blamed the Jews for heterosexuality Well, they are to blame for many resentments against other forms of sexuality. It is very unfortunate that Jewish "values" have become so popular through Christianity.
Some orthodox Jews would even consider someone with no kids a murderer.

In other words their ethnicity made them unworthy and indeed deserving of death.

Thats your interpretation, 99% of Jews believe differently. That makes your point pointless.


Isn't that what Judaism teaches? The entire ideology that only the chosen seed is inside God's grace is not any different than the Nazi's ideology that only the members of an assumed "Aryan" race are worthy of living.


Yes it is different, because the Jews do not believe any race is not worthy of living.


However, they believe that non-Jews are outside of God's grace and will be punished subsequently. So in a way both groups believe that those outside of their respective group do actually deserve death (cf. Elijah).

Not all Jews believe in an afterlife, i'm not even sure if the majority do.


That is the common attitude, and it really does not matter much that Jews wait for their God to do away with the gentiles instead of doing it themselves. It's the mindset that counts.

Yes it does, they don't make themselves judge jury and executioner, the Nazi's do.

What's an opinion? That the biblical god is a fabrication? Yes, just as calling the sky blue is one.

False analogy. Particularly since by its very nature you can't actually see the biblical God not existing. You can, in fact, see a blue sky. You got any other nonsense or would like to tuck your tail now and save us all the time of picking apart your hatred?

I love that you started out by saying you weren't an anti-semite and then talked about how Jews shouldn't exist and all support genocide. Nice and rational. Thanks for being so consistent.

Thats your interpretation, 99% of Jews believe differently. That makes your point pointless.So the biblical Conquest of Canaan was not according to the biblical god's will? It was actually (morally) wrong? Is that what Jews believe?
Either they follow the biblical god and view his decisions as morally right (which includes genocide then) or they don't.
And what if the biblical god does not exist as I tell you? Then Jews still believe this genocide to be right because the bible says so, and they do support this genocide, be it fictitious or not.

Yes it is different, because the Jews do not believe any race is not worthy of living. Then why does their god have no problem with killing some of them or having them killed? And don't Jews follow their god in everything? Or rather, does th biblical god not reflect what Jews want?

Not all Jews believe in an afterlife, i'm not even sure if the majority do.What does afterlife have to do with that?

Yes it does, they don't make themselves judge jury and executioner, the Nazi's do.Judge and jury is too much already.

Judge and jury is too much already.

Oh, the irony.

So the biblical Conquest of Canaan was not according to the biblical god's will? It was actually (morally) wrong? Is that what Jews believe?
Either they follow the biblical god and view his decisions as morally right (which includes genocide then) or they don't.
And what if the biblical god does not exist as I tell you? Then Jews still believe this genocide to be right because the bible says so, and they do support this genocide, be it fictitious or not.


The part where you say God killed them based on race is what 99% of Jews will disagree with you about. Not that he thought it was morally correct.


Then why does their god have no problem with killing some of them or having them killed? And don't Jews follow their god in everything? Or rather, does th biblical god not reflect what Jews want?


I don't see God killing any races today, so if God really did kill people based on race, there must not be a race alive which God still despises, as they are all still living.


What does afterlife have to do with that?


If there is no afterlife, there is no hell and thus no punishment for gentiles.


Judge and jury is too much already.

But they arn't even Judge and jury, they leave their decisions to God on who deserves life and death not themselves.

The part where you say God killed them based on race is what 99% of Jews will disagree with you about. Not that he thought it was morally correct.



I don't see God killing any races today, so if God really did kill people based on race, there must not be a race alive which God still despises, as they are all still living.



If there is no afterlife, there is no hell and thus no punishment for gentiles.



But they arn't even Judge and jury, they leave their decisions to God on who deserves life and death not themselves.

Why do you bother? You can't convince religious radicals? He's no different than the guy who shows saying we're all going to hell for using computers? It's not just irrational, but hypocritical.

No wait. Ask him this (he ignores me because I point out how silly and hypocritical his statements are) - If he's not an atheist then what god or gods does he believe in. And ask him if he believes the Jews will be judged for their behavior? He'll either lie or admit that he believes that if judgement exists at all that Jews will be punished, which of course means he believes it's perfectly acceptable to believe that other people will be judged as unacceptable just as long as you agree with him.

Why do you bother? You can't convince religious radicals? He's no different than the guy who shows saying we're all going to hell for using computers? It's not just irrational, but hypocritical.

Well I do find it quite interesting actually. I hate to admit it but UB does raise an interesting point, if you believe in a God that punishes people for not practicing your religion, does that make you have a similar mindset to that of a nazi?

Well I do find it quite interesting actually. I hate to admit it but UB does raise an interesting point, if you believe in a God that punishes people for not practicing your religion, does that make you have a similar mindset to that of a nazi?

Because unlike Nazis you allow for a being that is incapable of being wrong to actually carry out the judgement and if you are wrong, then nothing happens. For the Nazis, they carried out their own justice which may or may not have been wrong and it happened right or wrong.

It's like saying that if I believe in law and order that I'm a vigelante.

EDIT: Oh, and see my edit on the post you replied to.

EDIT: Oh, and see my edit on the post you replied to.

m'kay

The part where you say God killed them based on race is what 99% of Jews will disagree with you about. Not that he thought it was morally correct.Throughout the bible the followers of YHVH are the 'chosen seed', a 'people' distinct from all others, a different 'race'. And when God kills folks or has them killed because they are not of the chosen seed (and thus don't follow him) that's racist.
Or are you trying to tell me that the biblical god is not the one that Jews follow?

I don't see God killing any races today,that is because that god does not exist.

so if God really did kill people based on race, there must not be a race alive which God still despises, as they are all still living.You don't get it. Don't Jews believe what the Tanakh tells them? They take it for real. It is of no relevance if it is in fact real or not. It is their attitude that is reflected in the bible and it is the bible that has formed their attitude ever since. It's a short circuit of morality. When Elijah has 450 priests killed, is that not viewed as righteous by Jews? But how would you judge that from your own perspective? It's just a mass slaughter, nothing more. So how can you be a Jew and believe in these things and find them worthy of following and at the same time despise them for the sheer inhumanity?

If there is no afterlife, there is no hell and thus no punishment for gentiles.God cannot punish before the afterlife?

But they arn't even Judge and jury, they leave their decisions to God on who deserves life and death not themselves.The problem is that the biblical god is only an idea that sums up what Jews have wanted, it's a reflection on the Jewish view how the world and god ought to be.

... if you believe in a God that punishes people for not practicing your religion, does that make you have a similar mindset to that of a nazi?Definitely. Although there should be a distinction between believing and following.

Definitely.

Only if you don't recognize the difference between thought and actions. You are literally claiming there is no difference between thinking someone is wrong and killing them for disagreeing with you.

And when God kills folks or has them killed because they are not of the chosen seed (and thus don't follow him) that's racist.
Or are you trying to tell me that the biblical god is not the one that Jews follow?


For the last time, there are many many other reasons why God may have killed, it never says that he killed them based on race.


that is because that god does not exist.


I thought you said you wern't an atheist :rolleyes:


You don't get it. Don't Jews believe what the Tanakh tells them? They take it for real. It is of no relevance if it is in fact real or not. It is their attitude that is reflected in the bible and it is the bible that has formed their attitude ever since. It's a short circuit of morality. When Elijah has 450 priests killed, is that not viewed as righteous by Jews?


Firstly, have you ever heard of the concept "do as I say not as I do?" There is not a single law that says that you must kill anyone based on ethnicity.


God cannot punish before the afterlife?


He doesn't punish Gentiles before the afterlife either.


The problem is that the biblical god is only an idea that sums up what Jews have wanted, it's a reflection on the Jewish view how the world and god ought to be.

Incorrect, it sums up what the Jews believed a few thousand years ago, today Jews really do believe that God does the deciding and no mortal non perfect being on earth.

For the last time, there are many many other reasons why God may have killed, it never says that he killed them based on race.In the bible when it comes to Israelites there is no distinction between adherence to the biblical god and membership in the chosen people.

I thought you said you wern't an atheist :rolleyes:And? Is the biblical god the only possible god? In your mind?

Firstly, have you ever heard of the concept "do as I say not as I do?" There is not a single law that says that you must kill anyone based on ethnicity.But in the bible there are people and peoples killed because of their ethnicity or non-YHVH-adherence. That impresses far more and conveys the biblical message far more effective than any law. There are many laws, however, that tell the Israelites/Jews to stay away from other peoples, and as I read them I find them pretty racist, no matter what their motivations may have been.

He doesn't punish Gentiles before the afterlife either.??

Incorrect, it sums up what the Jews believed a few thousand years ago, today Jews really do believe that God does the deciding and no mortal non perfect being on earth.So today's Jews believe what ancient Jews have fabricated. Very convincing. The bible tells what are the criteria and Jews apply them as they pursue their belief. It does not really matter what their god does or not, as long as they believe in what the bible says (which is the only source that tells anything about the biblical Jewish god). And because they believe in the biblical god they are automatically following the bible and its categorization of humans.

*snip*

But everyone who ever believed in any religion always believed that they believe in the right one. Before the world became as globalized as it currently is religion was always a matter of race simply because races were isolated within their own geographic area and their culture and religions reflected their environments. This is as true of Jews as it is of anyone else. Why single them out? The problem you have with Jewish history is the common history of all races and religions.

But everyone who ever believed in any religion always believed that they believe in the right one. Before the world became as globalized as it currently is religion was always a matter of race simply because races were isolated within their own geographic area and their culture and religions reflected their environments.What are you talking about? No religion in the ancient Middle East or in the adjacent areas was bound to a certain people or even race, except Judaism. And as I understand it Judaism today is still what could be called ethnocentric, as Jews consider themselves not just as a religious group but also as a people. Of course that is only true in the biblical sense.

This is as true of Jews as it is of anyone else. Why single them out? The problem you have with Jewish history is the common history of all races and religions.No it isn't. Only Jews have written the Tanakh and have created the cause for the existence of Christianity and Islam. The abrahamic religions are built on one common source and basic ideology that is very much unlike any other (religious) ideology. And in their animosity towards non-followers it is only matched by modern political ideologies, such as fascism, communism, and their multitude of variations.

What are you talking about? No religion in the ancient Middle East or in the adjacent areas was bound to a certain people or even race, except Judaism.

No it isn't. Only Jews have written the Tanakh and have created the cause for the existence of Christianity and Islam. The abrahamic religions are built on one common source and basic ideology that is very much unlike any other (religious) ideology. And in their animosity towards non-followers it is only matched by modern political ideologies, such as fascism, communism, and their multitude of variations.

And of course, yours. Don't forget the animosity upon which your ideology is founded.

What are you talking about? No religion in the ancient Middle East or in the adjacent areas was bound to a certain people or even race, except Judaism.Regardless of whether or not it is spelled out in any specific way, teh Romans thought of themselves as superior as did the egypitians as did everyone else and as does everyone else that is involved in resource pressure from other races and groups. It's a common thread in humanity. In fact, it's a common thread in mammals. Even monkeys and apes get involved in resource disputes by group identity.

No it isn't. Only Jews have written the Tanakh and have created the cause for the existence of Christianity and Islam. The abrahamic religions are built on one common source and basic ideology that is very much unlike any other (religious) ideology. And in their animosity towards non-followers it is only matched by modern political ideologies, such as fascism, communism, and their multitude of variations.

I'm never said that all religions resulted in Christianity. I said all races and religions have a history of believing that they are superior and that their way is the right way. These tendencies only seem to diminish in the face of shared prosperity.

Regardless of whether or not it is spelled out in any specific way, teh Romans thought of themselves as superior as did the egypitians as did everyone else and as does everyone else that is involved in resource pressure from other races and groups. It's a common thread in humanity. In fact, it's a common thread in mammals. Even monkeys and apes get involved in resource disputes by group identity.



I'm never said that all religions resulted in Christianity. I said all races and religions have a history of believing that they are superior and that their way is the right way. These tendencies only seem to diminish in the face of shared prosperity.

I love how he blames them for Christianity when they don't agree with Christianity and absolutely without doubt would have stopped it from forming if they could have. Ditto with Islam. It's like blaming the pope for Jehovah's Witnesses. It simply doesn't make any sense.

I love how he blames them for Christianity when they don't agree with Christianity and absolutely without doubt would have stopped it from forming if they could have. Ditto with Islam. It's like blaming the pope for Jehovah's Witnesses. It simply doesn't make any sense.

People have a very uncanny way of making their hate seem so logical. It's like when you blast your horn at someone on teh road for doing something you do with regularity.

People have a very uncanny way of making their hate seem so logical. It's like when you blast your horn at someone on teh road for doing something you do with regularity.

It's really the jews fault anti-semites exist. If they'd just all die people could stop hating them already.

Protestancy is actually horse shit. King Henry made it up because he couldn't stand that the Pope wouldn't let him divorce his wives, and for some reason people still follow it today.
I mean, you can do it today without getting too much shit about it in normal Catholicism anyway, so why bother?

Hey hey hey, that's Anglican Church or C of E.
Lutheranism (among others) is also Protestant, but it wasn't created because of King Henry.

No, I use Nazi synonymously for ANTI-SEMITE. If you can't read English, don't bother replying.



You're fucked in the head. I'm not making any hard rules, just an observation.I suppose there are others who might hate "Jewishness" without being fucked in the head, but that's irrelevant - you hate, and you're fucked in the head.



Oh yes, I'm a Jewish Nazi. How'd you guess? Damn, you're fucking smart.

COOL IT.

COOL IT.

I should read the whole thread, huh?

Somewhere in there it went from the nice mod asking for attention to her sexuality, to the left testicle claiming to be a jewish nazi, to a shout of "cool it!"

You're fucked in the head. I'm not making any hard rules, just an observation.I suppose there are others who might hate "Jewishness" without being fucked in the head, but that's irrelevant - you hate, and you're fucked in the head.


Listen to me boy. I'm fucked in the head. I used to be a genius, now I'm just a Therapist. (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/therapist.htm)

You hate. What you hate is irrelevant, your hate will end up harming someone.

The left testicle in men is almost always larger than the right. Just like the left breast in women is almost always larger than the right. Meditate apon this, realize that we of the left have a natural advantage over they of the right ... and have mercy.

Look away from the monitor. Look to the the left, not the right.
Meditate. (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/blissninny.htm)

Listen to me boy. I'm fucked in the head. I used to be a genius, now I'm just a Therapist. (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/therapist.htm)

You hate. What you hate is irrelevant, your hate will end up harming someone.

The left testicle in men is almost always larger than the right. Just like the left breast in women is almost always larger than the right. Meditate apon this, realize that we of the left have a natural advantage over they of the right ... and have mercy.

Look away from the monitor. Look to the the left, not the right.
Meditate. (http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/blissninny.htm)

I want what you're smoking.

I want what you're smoking.

Kid, you are never getting my beard.

EDIT: It was another thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=533420)which did this to me. And it's old.

Regardless of whether or not it is spelled out in any specific way, teh Romans thought of themselves as superior as did the egypitians as did everyone else and as does everyone else that is involved in resource pressure from other races and groups. It's a common thread in humanity. In fact, it's a common thread in mammals. Even monkeys and apes get involved in resource disputes by group identity.

I'm never said that all religions resulted in Christianity. I said all races and religions have a history of believing that they are superior and that their way is the right way. These tendencies only seem to diminish in the face of shared prosperity.In polytheistic religions it is pointless to claim that one's religion is superior to another, because a polytheistic approach automatically includes all other gods, even those of the monotheistic religions. And the mentioned peoples surely didn't think they were superior (if they did at all) because of religion, as Jews do.

In polytheistic religions it is pointless to claim that one's religion is superior to another, because a polytheistic approach automatically includes all other gods, even those of the monotheistic religions. And the mentioned peoples surely didn't think they were superior (if they did at all) because of religion, as Jews do.

Look, kids, generalizations. They do still happen and they're still nearly always ridiculous. Cherish it, children, because we don't know how much longer silly generalizations will be around.

WhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCARES!?!

Aw, c'mon. Let him have his moment. He doesn't get so many.
:)

In polytheistic religions it is pointless to claim that one's religion is superior to another, because a polytheistic approach automatically includes all other gods, even those of the monotheistic religions. And the mentioned peoples surely didn't think they were superior (if they did at all) because of religion, as Jews do.

I'm unaware which polytheist you've spoken to, but that has to be the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever heard. Nothing about polytheistic theology necessitates allowing for the existence of other gods, and nothing about monotheistic theology necessarily precludes it.

Whoa if this thread isn't getting more dynamic post-per-post.
o.0

I'm unaware which polytheist you've spoken to, but that has to be the biggest pile of horseshit I've ever heard. Nothing about polytheistic theology necessitates allowing for the existence of other gods, and nothing about monotheistic theology necessarily precludes it.

Duh, once heard from his cousin's friend's girlfriend's little brother that a polytheistic religion incorporated the existence of other gods, therefore all polytheistic religions do it.

Duh, once heard from his cousin's friend's girlfriend's little brother that a polytheistic religion incorporated the existence of other gods, therefore all polytheistic religions do it.

My parents believe in a tradition of Hinduism that is monotheistic in its beliefs. There is, though, the belief in a supreme deity. He personally believes that all other gods of all other religions are just the same supreme deity with a different name.

So, somehow I think something I was taught, growing up, trumps something UB talked to some guy who talked to some guy about.

My parents believe in a tradition of Hinduism that is monotheistic in its beliefs. There is, though, the belief in a supreme deity. He personally believes that all other gods of all other religions are just the same supreme deity with a different name.

So, somehow I think something I was taught, growing up, trumps something UB talked to some guy who talked to some guy about.

A, technically I am the head vampire of GM. B, how dare you, sir? Clearly, you can paint all polytheistic religions with a single brush even if you can't and even you're not actually talking about polytheist religions. How dare you insert reason and fact into a good anti-semitic rant. What are you hoping for? Reasonable debate?

Then the facts are horseshit. Some people just cannot accept the way things really are. Judaism and Jewishness are the horseshit, and have been for 2300+ years. The biblical god is a fabrication and thus Judaism is a lie. That puts all Jewishness and its chosen-seed-shit into the same category as national socialism and its Herrenmensch crap.

You know, I fail to see the difference between this and Kimchi's "n00k t3h /\/\05|3/\/\z" rants. Really, I tried.

A, technically I am the head vampire of GM. B, how dare you, sir? Clearly, you can paint all polytheistic religions with a single brush even if you can't and even you're not actually talking about polytheist religions. How dare you insert reason and fact into a good anti-semitic rant. What are you hoping for? Reasonable debate?

I'll give you that. Hmm...does that make me head Spy?

I'll give you that. Hmm...does that make me head Spy?

Sorry, again, but I'd give that to Chandy. You were kind of head gangleader, if that helps. Now, stop trying to hijack the hijack. Back to the anti-semitism.

Back to the anti-semitism.

Jews=lose

sorry I suck at this.

Sorry, again, but I'd give that to Chandy. You were kind of head gangleader, if that helps. Now, stop trying to hijack the hijack of the copycat. Back to the anti-semitism.

Fixed.

Sorry, again, but I'd give that to Chandy. You were kind of head gangleader, if that helps. Now, stop trying to hijack the hijack of a copyKat. Back to the anti-semitism.

More fixed.

More fixed.

:D Kat is the most awesome Mod EVAR.

Well it's interesting that most American born Jews and even most in Israel support a rational discourse to establishing the two-state solution with Palestine and Israel. It's just that this process has been poisoned by messianic fundamentalists who build the West Bank settlements and believe in this 'Greater Israel', plus fundamentalist Christians in the US who believe Jesus will return soon and kill everyone who doesn't agree with him. Both are extreme minorities yet because their are so loud they get more power, and this distracts from the peace process.

I think fundamentalist Judaism needs to be confronted though, just as fundamentalist Christianity and Islam also need to be confronted.

:D Kat is the most awesome Mod EVAR.

Absolutely. A thread split takes work. If it had been me, I'd have just closed it.

surely didn't think they were superior (if they did at all) because of religion, as Jews do.

What makes you think Jews think they're superior because of religion? You know, I think it's because they control the global media and banking systems. Don't you?

Then the facts are horseshit. Some people just cannot accept the way things really are. Judaism and Jewishness are the horseshit, and have been for 2300+ years. The biblical god is a fabrication and thus Judaism is a lie. That puts all Jewishness and its chosen-seed-shit into the same category as national socialism and its Herrenmensch crap.

For the record, I am not a Jew, I am an agnostic. You are a troll. You are now on my ignore list.

I won't get into a debate about Judaism with you, UB - it is clear that my arguments are not penetrating at all. I merely ask a question.

On another thread, you said that you would not care if the government started persecuting Jews a la Hitler (if you like, I'll go and find the post in question). In fact, IIRC you stated that you would not save a Jew who was in danger of dying. This indicates that you do not care about Jews as human beings.

Yet here you claim not to hate Jews, only Judaism. Now, unless your callousness towards Jewish life extends to the majority of mankind, these two positions seem incompatible.

To help illustrate my point, the contempt you seem to have for Judaism is mirrored by my contempt for Nazism. Yet I would be prepared to save the life of a Neo-Nazi - say, for instance, he had a stroke and I was conveniently nearby, I would immediately administer first aid (which I am certified to do).

Either I have a greater sense of mercy than you, or you hate Jews, and can be called an anti-Semite. If you hate Judaism, but not Jews, I will remove you from my list of anti-Semites.

Now, I will answer the issue of Jews believing themselves to be better than others. While many Jews do believe that they are better than other people simply because they are Jews, this position is not supported by the Torah or the Talmud. Jews are a Chosen People, but they have been chosen to be a "light unto the nations". We are to teach by example.

Oh.. my... god.

>.>

Oh.. my... god.

>.>

Conflatulations .... the inevitable consequence of Ruffy Unfettered.

Oh yes, I'm a Jewish Nazi. How'd you guess? Damn, you're fucking smart.


TISM - The Ballad Of The Semetic Nazi (Lyrics)

They called my dad the only Rabbi in jackboots;
They called my mum the wife of my dad;
They circumcised me at the Nuremburg rally:
That's how I became a Semitic Nazi for life.

My mum always told me not to annex Poland;
My dad always told me not to invade Russia;
That's what you get for being a rebel -
Stuck in a bunker, eating unleaven bread.

I'm as popular as a Jew in Beirut;
I'm responsible for millions of deaths;
I've decimated more than half of Europe;
Kinda makes you want to boogie.

I don't hate Jews, I just don't like most of their religion. Same goes with Christians and Muslims.

Then the facts are horseshit. Some people just cannot accept the way things really are. Judaism and Jewishness are the horseshit, and have been for 2300+ years. The biblical god is a fabrication and thus Judaism is a lie. That puts all Jewishness and its chosen-seed-shit into the same category as national socialism and its Herrenmensch crap.

Yep, every Jew (without exception) is a right wing zealot, determined to ram their unleavened bread down our gullets till we choke. Then they will feed us to the lizard people, their allies in evil, while cackling and stroking their beards.

I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them, so they are in fact an irrelevant group. What is really unfortunate for humanity is that their bad ideology was spread by Christianity to the global level (including their attitude towards sex).

Actually, Jews are quite liberal towards sex. In fact, marital sex is a commandment- one of the 613 Mitzvot. Non-merital sex where there is still an emotional connection (such as two people in a relationship) is still considered a good thing, and even social sex barely hits a gray area. It's not until you get into things like "conquests" and using people that it becomes a definitevely bad thing.

It was not until the 4th century B.C.E, when the Roman (Christian) St. Augustine deemed sex to be a sin as a result of some of his own internal struggles regarding the Roman philosophies of the time. After him, monks for centuries debated whether marital sex with the intent of producing a child (as per the Biblical commandment "Be fruitful and multiply.") was a minor sin or a mortal sin worthy of landing one an eternity in Hell...

I don't know whether or not you can tell, but my opinions of Saint Augustine are, as a result of that, not particularly high.

What have Jews got to do with it?

Yep, every Jew (without exception) is a right wing zealot, determined to ram their unleavened bread down our gullets till we choke. Then they will feed us to the lizard people, their allies in evil, while cackling and stroking their beards.

You know...unleavened bread isn't even that bad...

You know...unleavened bread isn't even that bad...

I ate it once when I was a kid, but can't really remember now. I don't remember the woman who gave it to me cackling while stroking her beard either, but I presume they used Hebrew Mind Control on me to blank it out.

In polytheistic religions it is pointless to claim that one's religion is superior to another, because a polytheistic approach automatically includes all other gods, even those of the monotheistic religions. And the mentioned peoples surely didn't think they were superior (if they did at all) because of religion, as Jews do.

Actually, that's not polytheism, that's pantheism (big difference), and Jews certainly don't think themselves any better than any other religions. Period. There are bound to be a few extremists in any religion, but not only are those extemists a shriveled minority, but Jews actually hit the rating of "supertolerant" by demographic.

I ate it once when I was a kid, but can't really remember now. I don't remember the woman who gave it to me cackling while stroking her beard either, but I presume they used Hebrew Mind Control on me to blank it out.

Yeah. We do that. Sorry.


And we've poisoned the world's supply of humentashins, so you'd better be careful.

Hmm.
I am a Jewish Convert to Islam (The peaceful kind) and I have read many things about how Extreme Zionism contradicts Judaism. Other than that, can you give me any other bad things about Judaism?

"Umm, they killed Jesus": It is not fair to say that ALL the jews killed Jesus. SOME, maybe, but still. Jesus was Ethnicly Jewish, and religious to an extent.

"they invented the modern concept of Terrorism"umm, no. many non jewish gangs were doing that way before, bombing cafes and so on, and the concept of "terrorism" is bullshit, its just another word coined by tabloid newspapers for something that had already been happening a long time ago. Still terrible though.

so why do you hate jews? Maybe its because you're some uneducated redneck from the bible belt or a part of Germany or Finland or whatever way off from any civilisation and you've got nothing better to do with your time.

Hmm.
I am a Jewish Convert to Islam (The peaceful kind) and I have read many things about how Extreme Zionism contradicts Judaism. Other than that, can you give me any other bad things about Judaism?

"Umm, they killed Jesus": It is not fair to say that ALL the jews killed Jesus. SOME, maybe, but still. Jesus was Ethnicly Jewish, and religious to an extent.

"they invented the modern concept of Terrorism"umm, no. many non jewish gangs were doing that way before, bombing cafes and so on, and the concept of "terrorism" is bullshit, its just another word coined by tabloid newspapers for something that had already been happening a long time ago. Still terrible though.

so why do you hate jews? Maybe its because you're some uneducated redneck from the bible belt or a part of Germany or Finland or whatever way off from any civilisation and you've got nothing better to do with your time.

I was with you till the ad hominems.

Well I am all against extreme minorities of all religions, especially Islam, but apparently those Messianic settler types in the West Bank colonies are like nuts.

I'm sorry UB, you seem to have accidentally started your rant in the wrong forums.

Here you go: www.nazinow-jewhating.org/free

Sorry for this mix up guys.

(As a Jew I find most of what he had to say amusingly stupid, but I'm a bit tired of his ranting.)

Indeed, but that shower of shites are unrepresentative of humanity in general, let alone Jews. UB seems to think that within every Jewish comedian, mother or IT dude lurks some Uzi wielding, sets-the-dog-on-Arabs, right-wing asshole out to rob land for the chosen people. Its annoying.

What makes you think Jews think they're superior because of religion?The Tanakh and the behavior of the Jew-ish god in it.

Again, hard to tell the difference between UB's rants and Kimchi's other than which religion it's aimed at.

I don't hate Jews, I just don't like most of their religion. Same goes with Christians and Muslims.But Judaism is not just the same crap as Christianity and Islam, it is the source of the crap.

I'm sorry UB, you seem to have accidentally started your rant in the wrong forums.

Here you go: www.nazinow-jewhating.org/free

Sorry for this mix up guys.

(As a Jew I find most of what he had to say amusingly stupid, but I'm a bit tired of his ranting.)Why do you assume that it takes a Nazi to despise Judaism, although reading the Old Testament is completely sufficient
The really stupid thing is to think that there can be no reason at all to not like Jews except being a Nazi, as if Judaism were something naturally agreeable.

"...I did no more than you let me do." -The Hangman

But Judaism is not just the same crap as Christianity and Islam, it is the source of the crap.

I love your idea of fault. "You don't like this ideology and would have stopped it if you were capable and even tried to, but because they took from your ideology and made another one, you're at fault."

Don't you claim to be a follower of Yah? So wouldn't your religion be at fault for all of them?

I love your idea of fault. "You don't like this ideology and would have stopped it if you were capable and even tried to, but because they took from your ideology and made another one, you're at fault."

Don't you claim to be a follower of Yah? So wouldn't your religion be at fault for all of them?

Not if "Yah" is the one true god.

You know, kinda like how Amun is the one true god.

Or Ahura Mazda

Or Brahm

Not if "Yah" is the one true god.

You know, kinda like how Amun is the one true god.

Or Ahura Mazda

Or Brahm

Nope. If you have a connection to the original religion, even if the original religion rejects that connection or that you're a valid offshoot at all, the original religion is at fault for all of your actions.

That's why UB is so angry. Because he knows it's all his fault. Kind of like that guy who served salsa from NYC.

Nope. If you have a connection to the original religion, even if the original religion rejects that connection or that you're a valid offshoot at all, the original religion is at fault for all of your actions.

That's why UB is so angry. Because he knows it's all his fault. Kind of like that guy who served salsa from NYC.

Ah, I see your point.

True, it's all that made-up god Yah's fault.

Does that make UB a member of the Yah-Yah sisterhood?

...sorry...I couldn't help it. :D

Ah, I see your point.

True, it's all that made-up god Yah's fault.

Does that make UB a member of the Yah-Yah sisterhood?

...sorry...I couldn't help it. :D

First of all, you're dumb.

Second, does anyone else notice that UB starts these rants and anything that pokes a hole in his swiss-cheese logic, he just pretends he didn't hear?

But Judaism is not just the same crap as Christianity and Islam, it is the source of the crap.

And Jews are the source of Judaism, but Jews could not exist had not the women given birth to them in the first place, therefore Women are the source of the crap and must be eradicated immediately.


L0gic rul3z!

And Jews are the source of Judaism, but Jews could not exist had not the women given birth to them in the first place, therefore Women are the source of the crap and must be eradicated immediately.


L0gic rul3z!

Yes but aparently Yah made women, so Yah is evil and so all who follow Yah are evil. UB is EVIL by his own logic. :)

Yes but aparently Yah made women, so Yah is evil and so all who follow Yah are evil. UB is EVIL by his own logic. :)

Damn logic and all it has spawned. Now back to hating Jews.

I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them, so they are in fact an irrelevant group. What is really unfortunate for humanity is that their bad ideology was spread by Christianity to the global level (including their attitude towards sex).1) there are 15 million Jews, yes. There is on the other hand a much smaller number of Jews who subscribe to the ideas that you object to. Please do not ascribe Judaism as some sort of a racial trait of Jews. It is offensive.

2) Yes, certain tenets of Judaism have been incorporated into Christianity over the past 2000 years. Some of them are oppressive, but others are downright humanistic. In fact some of the humanistic ideas have either not made it into or have fallen out of many Christian sects. Others have been misinterpreted and warped beyond recognition. Some of the nasty things in Christianity can also be traced to old Roman and other non-Judaic traditions. Others may well be original. Go figure.

3) First you call us 'irrelevant' and then you lay centuries of Christian and Muslim atrocities at our doorstep. Interesting.

It's ok UB, just think: WWHD? (What would Hitler do?)

My guess is start having a temper tantrum, declaring that you've won the argument, and then commit suicide with your collection of cats.

It's ok UB, just think: WWHD? (What would Hitler do?)

My guess is start having a temper tantrum, declaring that you've won the argument, and then commit suicide with your collection of cats.

Thats awful. Those poor cats will be missed.

Actually, I think UB was a little hard done by here. UB seems to be a 'rational anti-semite'. That is, he bases his anti-semitism upon some kind of rational objection to judaisim (in this case their moral impact upon society). Valid or not, his basis is rational, at least in theory (i.e. Judaism effects this change> I dislike this change> I dislike Judaism).

I don't actually agree with UB, nor do I hold any 'anti' towards semitism (beyond the ridicule I hold for all religions). However, stringing him up as a nazi is a shameless character assassination which completely demeans the sincerity of those doing so. It is very clear that UB is not a nazi, or even a racist. I'm not even sure he hates jews personally or as a group (at least from what little I have seen in this thread). UB's problem seems to be with judaism as a religion, fair or not. Much like many of the posters here have a problem with Islam as a religion (feeling it demeans women, promotes hate, and is generally barbaric). The only difference is that it is taboo to publically hold issue with judaism as a faith.

Why even step up? Why set my self up for the same shit? Because I am sick to shit of judaism's immunity to criticism (in threat of public deploring). Not the people, not the 'race' (whatever the fuck a race is supposed to mean anyhow), the religion, the ideaology, the moral code. The fact of the matter is, Judaism is just as fucked up as christianity and Islam. Yet it is ok to be anti-islamic or anti-christian, but not anti-semetic.

Actually, I think UB was a little hard done by here. UB seems to be a 'rational anti-semite'. That is, he bases his anti-semitism upon some kind of rational objection to judaisim (in this case their moral impact upon society). Valid or not, his basis is rational, at least in theory (i.e. Judaism effects this change> I dislike this change> I dislike Judaism).

Yeah, you forgot the parts where he has zero sympathy for a human if they happen to be Jewish and would stand by and watch them die rather than lift a finger to save them.

He wants to paint a picture of "detachment" and "objectivity" and "rational" but by reading his stinking drivel enough you get a clear picture of just your average Jew-hating nazi fuck.

1) there are 15 million Jews, yes. There is on the other hand a much smaller number of Jews who subscribe to the ideas that you object to. Please do not ascribe Judaism as some sort of a racial trait of Jews. It is offensive.Then who are those folks who claim to be "ethnic Jews"? What is the number exactly of Jews who do not adhere to Judaism, i.e. do not follow the "god" that is the issue of the bible? And why does descent matter so much in Judaism if Jews consider it only a religion?

2) Yes, certain tenets of Judaism have been incorporated into Christianity over the past 2000 years. Some of them are oppressive, but others are downright humanistic. In fact some of the humanistic ideas have either not made it into or have fallen out of many Christian sects. Others have been misinterpreted and warped beyond recognition. Some of the nasty things in Christianity can also be traced to old Roman and other non-Judaic traditions. Others may well be original. Go figure.Christians and Muslims believe in the same Jew-ish "god" and in what he does according to the Tanakh and consider it righteous. If you believe in and follow a "god" who is practically a genocidal maniac (cf. the Flood) you are no different from someone following a human leader with similar aims.

3) First you call us 'irrelevant' and then you lay centuries of Christian and Muslim atrocities at our doorstep. Interesting.All atrocities that were committed in the name of the biblical "god" or with the mindset/attitude created by the bible can appropriately put on the doorstep of those who fabricated said "god" or still hold it true and right.

Yeah, you forgot the parts where he has zero sympathy for a human if they happen to be Jewish and would stand by and watch them die rather than lift a finger to save them. That would be a 'dick move'. Definitely came in half-way there then.

He wants to paint a picture of "detachment" and "objectivity" and "rational" but by reading his stinking drivel enough you get a clear picture of just your average Jew-hating nazi fuck. How disappointing.

Yeah, you forgot the parts where he has zero sympathy for a human if they happen to be Jewish and would stand by and watch them die rather than lift a finger to save them.I also said I wouldn't help a Mormon, Scientologist, or Nazi either. But to have mentioned that would have ruined your point, I guess.

He wants to paint a picture of "detachment" and "objectivity" and "rational" but by reading his stinking drivel enough you get a clear picture of just your average Jew-hating nazi fuck.It's so convenient to call me a Nazi, isn't it? Because then you don't have to actually defend Judaism or its fabricated "god" and tell everybody why anybody should ever think it an acceptable ideology. I really wonder what you would have called someone who like me despised Judaism 100 or 200 years ago.

I really wonder what you would have called someone who like me despised Judaism 100 or 200 years ago.

A scoundrel, I'd imagine. A fool, wastrel and indecent, not to mention certainly not a gentleman.

It's not so much that you would actively persecute them, but that you would allow for someone to be persecuted for what they believe. I fully believe that in any decent and civilized society one should be free, and protected, to believe whatsoever they may desire, just so long as their actions resulting from those beliefs do not cross the boundaries set by society.

Without the freedom to hold disagreeable beliefs, we might as well have no freedom at all. For in whose absolute moral judgment can we rest to hold the truth? I know of none who can lay that claim.

Instead, we allow for the free interaction of ideas, popular and unpopular, sane and crazy, and all along the gamut.

A scoundrel, I'd imagine. A fool, wastrel and indecent, not to mention certainly not a gentleman.

It's not so much that you would actively persecute them, but that you would allow for someone to be persecuted for what they believe. I fully believe that in any decent and civilized society one should be free, and protected, to believe whatsoever they may desire, just so long as their actions resulting from those beliefs do not cross the boundaries set by society.

Without the freedom to hold disagreeable beliefs, we might as well have no freedom at all. For in whose absolute moral judgment can we rest to hold the truth? I know of none who can lay that claim.

Instead, we allow for the free interaction of ideas, popular and unpopular, sane and crazy, and all along the gamut.

Does posting this really matter? He'll just selectively answer what he can cobble together an attempt at a response to, and ignore anything beyond his ability anyway.

I also said I wouldn't help a Mormon, Scientologist, or Nazi either. But to have mentioned that would have ruined your point, I guess.

It's so convenient to call me a Nazi, isn't it? Because then you don't have to actually defend Judaism or its fabricated "god" and tell everybody why anybody should ever think it an acceptable ideology. I really wonder what you would have called someone who like me despised Judaism 100 or 200 years ago.

His point is that you're basically a person with no respect for human life. How would leaving out that your disrespect for life is broader than he said helpful to you?

His point is that you're basically a person with no respect for human life. How would leaving out that your disrespect for life is broader than he said helpful to you?

Well, think about it. "All these people, 100-200 years ago, were hateful and anti-semitic, so it's ok if I'm anti-semitic too."

You know, kinda like "All these people, 100-200 years ago, owned slaves, so it's ok if I-...oh wait a minute, no. My line of reasoning is made of pure, unfiltered horeshit."

What issues? Issues about sexuality? Well, guess where Catholics copied their positions on sexuality from. They use the same Old Testament, don't they? They pray to the Jew-ish god and follow his rules, don't they?

Except this guy, Jesus, came along, and the rules were effectually changed...

Then who are those folks who claim to be "ethnic Jews"? Atheists, Christians, agnostics, Muslims, Buddhists, Cthulhu cultists, secular humanists etc:rolleyes:
What is the number exactly of Jews who do not adhere to Judaism, i.e. do not follow the "god" that is the issue of the bible?You don't know too many Jews do you? A goodly portion of your 15 million I believe.

And why does descent matter so much in Judaism if Jews consider it only a religion?Judaism is an old school tribal religion. It was by no means the first of its kind though it is one of the largest and oldest surviving ones. Unlike Christianity and Islam, it does not seek to convert the world at swordpoint. There's one bit of idiocy that you can't rationalize as a 'Jewish taint' of some sort.
If you believe in and follow a "god" who is practically a genocidal maniac (cf. the Flood) you are no different from someone following a human leader with similar aims. And if you directly blame the German people for all the dumb ass Neo-Nazi punks in the world then you are a silly git:p


All atrocities that were committed in the name of the biblical "god" or with the mindset/attitude created by the bible can appropriately put on the doorstep of those who fabricated said "god" or still hold it true and right.Those who created it are long dead and a large percentage of your '15 million' have nothing to do with him. And your interpretation of the old testament has nothing to do with the actual beliefs of many who do. To single out the Jews specifically out of all those who worship that god smacks of something foul. The Christian idea of 'God' has taken as much from other religions and philosophical traditions such as the old Roman religion and platonic idealism. For someone with no emotional interest, you seem quite obsessed with a 'Jewish taint.' So much so in fact that you seem to ignore equally essential sources of Christian doctrine.

I also said I wouldn't help a Mormon, Scientologist, or Nazi either. But to have mentioned that would have ruined your point, I guess.

Nope, hating Scientologists or Mormons doesn't negate your hate for Jews. Just like hating homosexuals, Gypsies and Slavs didn't negate Nazi hatred for Jews.

My point remains. Cute attempt though.

It's so convenient to call me a Nazi, isn't it?

If accuracy can be considered convenience, sure.

Because then you don't have to actually defend Judaism or its fabricated "god"

I don't have to "defend" the Jewish god just to point out that you're a mindless bigot. Or to indulge your apparent need to dress up your hatred as some sort of dispassionate and reasonable theological disagreement.

and tell everybody why anybody should ever think it an acceptable ideology. I really wonder what you would have called someone who like me despised Judaism 100 or 200 years ago.

Alas, for the good old days when anti-semitism was politically correct!

I guess I wouldn't have called you anything then, because people like you would have made sure I didn't have that right. What with my "Jewishness" and all.

Judaism is an old school tribal religion. It was by no means the first of its kind though it is one of the largest and oldest surviving ones. Unlike Christianity and Islam, it does not seek to convert the world at swordpoint. There's one bit of idiocy that you can't rationalize as a 'Jewish taint' of some sort.
No, Judaism didn't want to convert any of the non-believers.They wanted them all dead.Count up all the times in the Old Testament God tells his chosen people to kill all the unbelievers. Every man,woman and child.

And anyone who thinks only the fundamentalists of a particuliar religion are dangerous needs to look at the fundamentals. I don't think fundamentalist Jainists are much danger. All three of the Abrahamic religions are scary.

No, Judaism didn't want to convert any of the non-believers.They wanted them all dead.Count up all the times in the Old Testament God tells his chosen people to kill all the unbelievers. Every man,woman and child.

And anyone who thinks only the fundamentalists of a particuliar religion are dangerous needs to look at the fundamentals. I don't think fundamentalist Jainists are much danger. All three of the Abrahamic religions are scary.

You haven't met pissed off Jain. I have. They can be pretty frightening.

Pissed off anybody can be frightening.

UB, if you followed your rants to their logical conclusion it would mean that all Jews are crazy murderers.
This can be compared to actual Jews who are... pretty normal.
That automatically means your logic is flawed, the only problem is where.
I think you're not taking the Talmud into account. Religious Jews follow the Talmud as much as the tanach, which makes them quite a bit more peaceful then the ancient Israelites mentioned in the OT.
Nonreligious Jews follow neither, so there's no problem.
And about your rants on ethnic Jews:
From the OT it's pretty obvious that Judaism was originally intended as the state religion for ancient Israel.
So, anyone descended from an ancient Hebrew is an ethnic Jew, even if they're not technically Jewish.
For example:
Norway used to follow the old Norse gods.
Anyone descended from one of the followers of the old Norse gods is ethnically Norse even if they don't worship Thor.

Why even step up? Why set my self up for the same shit? Because I am sick to shit of judaism's immunity to criticism (in threat of public deploring). Not the people, not the 'race' (whatever the fuck a race is supposed to mean anyhow), the religion, the ideaology, the moral code. The fact of the matter is, Judaism is just as fucked up as christianity and Islam. Yet it is ok to be anti-islamic or anti-christian, but not anti-semetic..

For the record: all Muslims who suicide bomb and all that shit aren't following the Koran and are therefore not really Muslim, and all Christians who... PAT ROBERTSON isn't following the bible and probably has never read it and so isn't really Christian. Therefore to be anti- any religion based on the people who don't actually follow it is wrong. Therefore I put to you that none of the three religions are 'fucked up'.



No, Judaism didn't want to convert any of the non-believers.They wanted them all dead.Count up all the times in the Old Testament God tells his chosen people to kill all the unbelievers. Every man,woman and child.

And anyone who thinks only the fundamentalists of a particuliar religion are dangerous needs to look at the fundamentals. I don't think fundamentalist Jainists are much danger. All three of the Abrahamic religions are scary.

God telling people to do something in a book is different then actually doing something in real life. The point is Jews have never converted by force and that's what he meant.

No, Judaism didn't want to convert any of the non-believers.They wanted them all dead.Count up all the times in the Old Testament God tells his chosen people to kill all the unbelievers. Every man,woman and child.No, that is in fact not the case. This monstrous edict only applied to several tribes that happened to live on the land that 'God had chosen for the sons of Abrahan, Isaac and Jacob' during particular periods. As bad as it is, it falls far from 'all unbelievers.'

And just as such genocidal attitudes are no more common amongst Jews today then any other people, the Jews were by no means unique amongst the ancient nations in their periodic practice of genocide.
All this 'sins of the father' shit is funny coming from folks who are heartily denouncing the 'Jewish taint':rolleyes:

You know...unleavened bread isn't even that bad...

Try eating it for 8 days and tell me that.

It's actually OK if you eat it with charosets, tuna, or pretty much any spread. It also is great with pizza sauce and cheese in a microwave.

But back on the subject. UB is a clear anti-semite and a moron. People gave me crap for months when I called him an anti-Semite. Let this just be another example of SEE I TOLD YOU SO.

He is an ignorant fool who knows little of the religion he attacks. Judaism is very liberal in terms of how it commands you to live your social life. It doesn't allow forced conversions and has no problem with people having other beliefs. It doesn't condemn non believers to hell because hell doesn't even exist. It also doesn't expect non Jews to follow the 613 Mitzvot. It just asks them to follow a few of the 10 commandments (mainly the ones about not killing or stealing). Most of those are part of any country's legal code anyways.

No, Judaism didn't want to convert any of the non-believers.They wanted them all dead.Count up all the times in the Old Testament God tells his chosen people to kill all the unbelievers. Every man,woman and child.
Find me the relevant passage from the Tanakh that says this. Also, find me a culture from the same or similar period that hasn't waged some sort of brutal war, then we'll talk. That's how war was fought in ancient times, not with surgical strikes but with slaughtering your enemies.

Also, surely you don't think that, deep down, we all want to 'kill all the unbelievers'? Please.

It doesn't condemn non believers to hell because hell doesn't even exist. It also doesn't expect non Jews to follow the 613 Mitzvot. It just asks them to follow a few of the 10 commandments (mainly the ones about not killing or stealing). Most of those are part of any country's legal code anyways.
I agree with this completely. For reference, the 'few of the ten commandments' outlined in the Talmud are the Noahide Laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah) or Laws of Noah. Interesting reading for all the people who seem to think Jews want forced conversion, etc.

I should also note that the Lord doesn't want genocide carried out in his name.

If I may reference Shemot, the slaying of the 1st born was carried out as a last resort. When angels were celebrating the deed, G-d was angered by the actions of the angels and wept for the Egyptians who were killed (and didn't believe in him) were just as much his children as the Jews were.

We are also commanded during the Pesach Seder to remember the horrible burden paid by the Egyptians because of the 10 plagues. We spill wine on our plates because we can't drink and be happy for the suffering of others. Any good Haggadah has a good 5-10 pages of Rabbinical discussions questioning G-ds motives and stating that he should've found a better way.

It's so convenient to call me a Nazi, isn't it? Because then you don't have to actually defend Judaism or its fabricated "god" and tell everybody why anybody should ever think it an acceptable ideology. I really wonder what you would have called someone who like me despised Judaism 100 or 200 years ago.

Wait! I thought you had no emotional connection to this issue. Despise mmm...

Lets see:

Despise

TRANSITIVE VERB:
de·spised , de·spis·ing , de·spis·es

1. To regard with contempt or scorn: despised all cowards and flatterers.
2. To dislike intensely; loathe: despised the frigid weather in January.
3. To regard as unworthy of one's interest or concern: despised any thought of their own safety.


Now that's not right... that word seems awfully... emotional.. GASP! :eek:

I think our crazy Nazi Vulcan turned out to be a Nazi Romulan!

I think our crazy Nazi Vulcan turned out to be a Nazi Romulan!
"Beware of Romulans bearing gifts."

United Beleriand isn't a Nazi.

He's less than a Nazi. Nazis had organization, they had action and they were on the move. They were evil, and they were delusional. But, they were containable, they were an evil that could be, and eventually was, defeated. They were the villain whose end was nigh inevitable.

What United Beleriand is, though, is something that is far more terrifying than a Nazi. What he professes to believe is a far, far darker than the consuming madness of Nazism. What United Beleriand professes is a cold, uncaring ideology. Dehumanizing other individuals, simply because they believe differently from himself. Believing that they are irredeemable, simply because of what they believe is such an absurd proposition that there are barely words to describe it.

He claims to be a champion of humanism and rational thought, yet he has thrown out the key tenant of such: doubt. The ability to question one's own belief, and to realize that you, yourself might indeed be wrong. That another person might, indeed, have the answer. In many ways, his are the words of the Inquisitors, hunting heresy within the Church, and burning them alive.

He claims to have cast down the old gods, yet it would seem he has done little more than to change their names.

United Beleriand isn't a Nazi, he is less than a Nazi. Barely the pathetic bootlickers who couldn't muster the courage to stand up, and give their lives in the cause of something good and decent.

There is one thing to remember about all the countless human monsters throughout history: They only committed as many crimes as we let them. I would admonish United Beleriand to remember that.

What United Beleriand is, though, is something that is far more terrifying than a Nazi. What he professes to believe is a far, far darker than the consuming madness of Nazism. What United Beleriand professes is a cold, uncaring ideology. Dehumanizing other individuals, simply because they believe differently from himself. Believing that they are irredeemable, simply because of what they believe is such an absurd proposition that there are barely words to describe it.

In other words, a Dalek-wannabe.

I should also note that the Lord doesn't want genocide carried out in his name.

If I may reference Shemot, the slaying of the 1st born was carried out as a last resort. When angels were celebrating the deed, G-d was angered by the actions of the angels and wept for the Egyptians who were killed (and didn't believe in him) were just as much his children as the Jews were.

We are also commanded during the Pesach Seder to remember the horrible burden paid by the Egyptians because of the 10 plagues. We spill wine on our plates because we can't drink and be happy for the suffering of others. Any good Haggadah has a good 5-10 pages of Rabbinical discussions questioning G-ds motives and stating that he should've found a better way.Ummm... I think that our friend was referring to 'the clearing of Canaan.'

There is one thing to remember about all the countless human monsters throughout history: They only committed as many crimes as we let them. I would admonish United Beleriand to remember that.Or only the crimes that the powerful and wealthy 'good people' did not see as hurting profits:rolleyes:

I should also note that the Lord doesn't want genocide carried out in his name.

No... he just commands it repeatedly. :rolleyes:

Except this guy, Jesus, came along, and the rules were effectually changed...

Who? Mithra? Horus?
Ah, amalgamations and permeations.

Find me the relevant passage from the Tanakh that says this.

Not all unbelievers. Just some.

16 Howbeit of the cities of these peoples, that the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth, 17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.'

There are lots of others.

Not all unbelievers. Just some.

There are lots of others.You rock. *bows*

Not all unbelievers. Just some.





There are lots of others.

That's from the 'Old Testament'. The Christians have reworded and reworked a lot of what was once the Torah. Besides Hebrew doesn't translate very well to English. There are too many ways to mistranslate a Hebrew word, especially in biblical connotations.

Anyways I'm not trying to deny that the God in the Torah seems less then friendly. He does order some crazy stupid things. Point is tho, no Jews ever go out and start killing people in the name of God based on any of the parts you just quoted.

In any event it certainly does not give support for UB to go around saying Jews are evil and must be stopped before the full moon comes out and they all start hunting for Goy children.

Btw, I can't believe your defending what UB is saying here. The very basis of modern morality and ethics were derived from the Torah.

Btw, I can't believe your defending what UB is saying here. The very basis of modern morality and ethics were derived from the Torah.

That's BS and you know it.
The idea that people have to be religious to be moral has been contradicted too many times to count.

United Beleriand isn't a Nazi.

He's less than a Nazi. Nazis had organization, they had action and they were on the move. They were evil, and they were delusional. But, they were containable, they were an evil that could be, and eventually was, defeated. They were the villain whose end was nigh inevitable.

What United Beleriand is, though, is something that is far more terrifying than a Nazi. What he professes to believe is a far, far darker than the consuming madness of Nazism. What United Beleriand professes is a cold, uncaring ideology. Dehumanizing other individuals, simply because they believe differently from himself. Believing that they are irredeemable, simply because of what they believe is such an absurd proposition that there are barely words to describe it.

He claims to be a champion of humanism and rational thought, yet he has thrown out the key tenant of such: doubt. The ability to question one's own belief, and to realize that you, yourself might indeed be wrong. That another person might, indeed, have the answer. In many ways, his are the words of the Inquisitors, hunting heresy within the Church, and burning them alive.

He claims to have cast down the old gods, yet it would seem he has done little more than to change their names.

United Beleriand isn't a Nazi, he is less than a Nazi. Barely the pathetic bootlickers who couldn't muster the courage to stand up, and give their lives in the cause of something good and decent.

There is one thing to remember about all the countless human monsters throughout history: They only committed as many crimes as we let them. I would admonish United Beleriand to remember that.

/thread

Btw, I can't believe your defending what UB is saying here. The very basis of modern morality and ethics were derived from the Torah.

Just plain idiotic

Btw, I can't believe your defending what UB is saying here. The very basis of modern morality and ethics were derived from the Torah.

Actually most. of it was derived from Greek thought, a la Aristotle and Plato.

Fail.

Edit: And then filtered down into a "Christianized" version of both schools of thought, a la Augustine and Aquinas.

Oh yeah, we use Torahic morality, would that include the willingness to commit infanticide because your hearing schizophrenic voices in your head?

The very basis of modern morality and ethics were derived from the Torah.Rubbish. Modern morality and ethics derive from movements that sought to reduce the influence of the church and thus OT teachings. Renaissance, Humanism, Enlightenment, civil revolutions.

I notice that certain people in this thread refuse to admit the ethical absurdity of the biblical God. Other folks here refuse to admit the very substantial Judaic contribution to the development of Western ethics. Both groups really ought to make an attempt to drop their emotional-ideological baggage for just one moment. Please try to take a step back and assess the situation more reasonably.

The Judaic tradition is an ancient, rich and diverse one. It is neither without flaw nor without merit. If fact it possesses a great deal of both on a monumental scale. It is well worth studying and debating but either to accept it whole cloth or to condemn it as nothing but worthless and poisonous trash is not a constructive position.

The Judaic tradition is an ancient, rich and diverse one. It is neither without flaw nor without merit. If fact it possesses a great deal of both on a monumental scale. It is well worth studying and debating but either to accept it whole cloth or to condemn it as nothing but worthless and poisonous trash is not a constructive position.
That can be said for the contributions of almost every ethnic group in the world.

That can be said for the contributions of almost every ethnic group in the world.Indeed. I don't even think that the 'almost' is necessary to make that a true statement. I am talking specifically of a religion and not an ethnic group though.

I have no emotional connexion to the issue, thus I don't hate Jews. I only reject what they represent. They are the offspring of a bad ideology, that's all. But thank Yah there's only 15 million or so of them, so they are in fact an irrelevant group. What is really unfortunate for humanity is that their bad ideology was spread by Christianity to the global level (including their attitude towards sex).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA HAHAHAHA!!!!
You, sir, are a comedic genius.

Well in terms of lasting cultural or tradition impacts, the Abrahamic tradition is only felt in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar etc, although to a lesser extent in fundamentalism in the US and elsewhere. Primarily our world is built upon Greek philosophical traditions of democracy and social justice, built in with the rationalist thinkers of the enlightenment, and (believe it or not) Marxism though the French revolution, unionism and the industrial revolution and liberalism.

That's from the 'Old Testament'. The Christians have reworded and reworked a lot of what was once the Torah.

It's all the word of God.

Besides Hebrew doesn't translate very well to English.

Virtually any translation says the same.

Point is tho, no Jews ever go out and start killing people in the name of God based on any of the parts you just quoted.

Actually, both those verses have been fodder for right-wing extremist Israeli nationalists, who have actually gone out and killed people.

In any event it certainly does not give support for UB to go around saying Jews are evil and must be stopped before the full moon comes out and they all start hunting for Goy children.

That's not what UB has been saying... and in any case, my concern is not defending what UB is saying.

The very basis of modern morality and ethics were derived from the Torah.

Um, not really... the ideas that are common to both are pretty universal.