NationStates Jolt Archive

Or more specifically the Toronto police, who beat up Chile's under 20 FIFA world cup soccer team, who rioted after their 3-0 defeat to Argentina.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/20/soccer-melee.html

Question is Canada Racist? Yes or No?

They're not racist -- they were trying to stop a riot. Can't help if the assholes RIOTING OVER A FREAKING GAME just happen to be Latin American, can they?
That said, if there was excessive force used, those involved should be reprimanded/punished.

And you wonder why we don't want soccer in the US.

Why don't you have a link to a Chilean newspaper? I'll leave it at that for now.

Why don't you have a link to a Chilean newspaper? I'll leave it at that for now.

Why don't you provide one or say what you mean?

Why don't you have a link to a Chilean newspaper? I'll leave it at that for now.

Because it happened in Canada, in front of Canadian journalists, and about 10 thousand miles away from the nearest Chilean journalist?

Why don't you have a link to a Chilean newspaper? I'll leave it at that for now.
Because it happened in Canada?

Or more specifically the Toronto police, who beat up Chile's under 20 FIFA world cup soccer team, who rioted after their 3-0 defeat to Argentina.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/20/soccer-melee.html

Question is Canada Racist? Yes or No?

This is simply impossible to enjoy without photos. Or better yet, video clips. *nod*

And you wonder why we don't want soccer in the US.

It doesn't happen only with soccer. If anything, due to violence IN the game it would be more likely to happen in American Football. It's not about "soccer", it's about "some people being morons". As for "not wanting soccer", the biggest two rivals in women's soccer are Brazil and the USA. And your own male soccer team isn't an Italy, but it's not that bad.

Why don't you provide one or say what you mean?
It's NSG custom that the OP provides a link. We cannot be expected to search for it ourselves, instead we whine about not giving a link.

Is it just me or is there no use of the word racist anywhere in the article?

Ok, that's a rhetorical question, because I know there's no use of the word racist, race or racism. There isn't even an instance of the letters "rac" appearing on the page.

The real question is: where did the OP get this idea that race is involved, if not from the article?

And you wonder why we don't want soccer in the US.

Because there aren't enough commercial breaks.

At least the US supports the cultures that enter it. Canada just tries to assimilate everyone. It's awful.

Is it just me or is there no use of the word racist anywhere in the article?

Ok, that's a rhetorical question, because I know there's no use of the word racist, race or racism. There isn't even an instance of the letters "rac" appearing on the page.

The real question is: where did the OP get this idea that race is involved, if not from the article?

Anybody?

At least the US supports the cultures that enter it. Canada just tries to assimilate everyone. It's awful.

How so?

Well, in every school I've been in we were forced to learn French and we had to learn English. English I support, but if anything my secondary language should be of my heritage. The only history we learned through grade school and a quarter into high school is the unimpressive 100 years Canada has been around for, and some vague technological information about the Medieval Ages in England. Past that, you have to intentionally take courses for international history or for the language of your heritage, and at that point unless you intend to be a historian you might as well just spend a few nights on Wikipedia at your own leisure. Nothing is written in other languages anywhere ever. Hell, I don't even think French is the dominant minority (oxymoron?), and Quebec doesn't really count.
Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada.

"Well, in every school I've been in there has been no trace of any cultural influence other than Canadian. We were forced to learn French and we had to learn English. The only history we learned through grade school and a quarter into high school is the unimpressive 100 years Canada has been around for, and some vague technological information about the Medieval Ages in England. Past that, you have to intentionally take courses for international history or for the language of your heritage, and at that point unless you intend to be a historian you might as well just spend a few nights on Wikipedia at your own leisure. Nothing is written in other languages anywhere ever. Hell, I don't even think French is the dominant minority (oxymoron?).
Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada."

you must be a window licker. we are taught french and english because we are a bilingual country. this means we support not just the english culture, which is the overwhelming majority, but the french one as well. this clearly shows that canada is about multiculturalism, and i'm not even going to comment about what you said about no little italies, that's just retarded. i guess you have never been to any city in canada ever, and i'm even talking about some of the smaller cities with populations of less than 100,000.

why wouldn't we be taught about the origins of canada, impressive or not? this is where our nation came from, so we should learn about it, shouldn't we?
i don't like canadian history either, pretty dry compared to many other nations, but still, it's important to know. all in all, you basically have diarrhea from the mouth.

Flame less and learn how to use quote tags.

This:
What someone wrote
becomes:
What someone wrote

Well, in every school I've been in we were forced to learn French and we had to learn English. English I support, but if anything my secondary language should be of my heritage. The only history we learned through grade school and a quarter into high school is the unimpressive 100 years Canada has been around for, and some vague technological information about the Medieval Ages in England. Past that, you have to intentionally take courses for international history or for the language of your heritage, and at that point unless you intend to be a historian you might as well just spend a few nights on Wikipedia at your own leisure. Nothing is written in other languages anywhere ever. Hell, I don't even think French is the dominant minority (oxymoron?), and Quebec doesn't really count.
Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada.

You don't think French is the dominant minority based on what exactly? and why doesn't Quebec count?

Wiki doesn't agree:

According to the 2001 census, it has 34 ethnic groups with at least one hundred thousand members each, with 83% (24,618,250 respondents out of 29,639,035 respondents) claiming they are white.[53] The largest ethnic group is English (20.2%), followed by French (15.8%), Scottish (14.0%), Irish (12.9%), German (9.3%), Italian (4.3%), Chinese (3.7%), Ukrainian (3.6%), and First Nations (3.4%); 40% of respondents identified their ethnicity as "Canadian."[54]

You're arguments aren't exactly convincing by any stretch of the imagination

EDIT : This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Twenty-seven_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms) is also pretty interesting

It doesn't happen only with soccer. If anything, due to violence IN the game it would be more likely to happen in American Football. It's not about "soccer", it's about "some people being morons". As for "not wanting soccer", the biggest two rivals in women's soccer are Brazil and the USA. And your own male soccer team isn't an Italy, but it's not that bad.

If it's so much more likely to happen with US football, why doesn't it happen more often at US football games? Strike one.

Strike two is that the biggest two rivals to the US are Denmark and China, which you would have known had you watched the last Women's World Cup in 2003. I'm not even sure those are the biggest rivalries in all of women's soccer. Incidentally, seeing as how the game was the U-20 men's World Cup, why did you even mention women's soccer?

Well, in every school I've been in we were forced to learn French and we had to learn English. English I support, but if anything my secondary language should be of my heritage. The only history we learned through grade school and a quarter into high school is the unimpressive 100 years Canada has been around for, and some vague technological information about the Medieval Ages in England. Past that, you have to intentionally take courses for international history or for the language of your heritage, and at that point unless you intend to be a historian you might as well just spend a few nights on Wikipedia at your own leisure. Nothing is written in other languages anywhere ever. Hell, I don't even think French is the dominant minority (oxymoron?), and Quebec doesn't really count.
Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada.

Let's see, it's fairly standard stuff to learn about the history of the country your in when you take a history class...uh...in the country...you're...in. Also the official languages of Canada are English and French -- or hadn't you noticed that from all the bilingual labels at the supermarket? Learning another one would require another class...or are there classes where...they teach...two languages...at...a time...?

Guess what? If I want to learn about other cultures here in the US, I must take a course specific to that culture, too! In fact, I did! My ancestors in Europe come from Hanover, so I took three years of German language in high school, which included a significant amount of cultural and historical stuff.

I honestly don't understand what you're complaining about.

Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada.

I take it you have never been to the little Italy or Chinatown areas in Toronto?

I take it you have never been to the little Italy or Chinatown areas in Toronto?

Or indeed the city of Vancouver.

Is it just me or is there no use of the word racist anywhere in the article?

Ok, that's a rhetorical question, because I know there's no use of the word racist, race or racism. There isn't even an instance of the letters "rac" appearing on the page.

The real question is: where did the OP get this idea that race is involved, if not from the article?

Come on, Ifreann, everybody knows that when a white cop arrests a non-white person it's always because they're evil racists. *nod*

Come on, Ifreann, everybody knows that when a white cop arrests a non-white person it's always because they're evil racists. *nod*

Oh yes, how silly of me.

Well I've been working for Canadians for more than five years now. Never been there, but my job is to get big media files through a network out of Canada. In that time I've found them to be the most racist, violent, puppy-killing, raping and pillaging, thoughtless, selfish, dishonest, smelly, gaseous, bloated, water-retaining, potty-mouthed, perverted people on the face of the planet. Also, they say "a boot" instead of "about." :)

To bad Kryozerkia's on her honeymoon, I think she'd make this thread really interesting.

It doesn't happen only with soccer. If anything, due to violence IN the game it would be more likely to happen in American Football. It's not about "soccer", it's about "some people being morons". As for "not wanting soccer", the biggest two rivals in women's soccer are Brazil and the USA. And your own male soccer team isn't an Italy, but it's not that bad.

Do not believe we are talking about violence in the game. This is about what happens in the stands and around the stadiums after the game. Soccer or "Futbol" is known for the violence from the spectators. It does not happen at every single game but there are more then enough incidents of violence. There simply is no comparison with American Football vs Soccer matches. It may not be about "Soccer" however it is about the fans that attend "Soccer" matches.
As it may be with the rioting Chileans. What the hell did they expect rioting in a foreign nation? Don't be so stupid next time.

It doesn't happen only with soccer. If anything, due to violence IN the game it would be more likely to happen in American Football. It's not about "soccer", it's about "some people being morons". As for "not wanting soccer", the biggest two rivals in women's soccer are Brazil and the USA. And your own male soccer team isn't an Italy, but it's not that bad.

Except we don't generally have riots after American Football games, do we?

It's NSG custom that the OP provides a link. We cannot be expected to search for it ourselves, instead we whine about not giving a link.

Well, someone whined about "why didn't you provide a link to a Chilean paper?"
If they want us to have different information than the link the OP provided, then give it instead of telling us to go look for it.

Better yet, give an opinion.

Come on, Ifreann, everybody knows that when a white cop arrests a non-white person it's always because they're evil racists. *nod*
Two strikes:

1. The article does not suggest that Canadians are racists.

2. The cops that made the arrests were ALL white?

FYI, the Toronto Police employs many people from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.

hmm.. where to start?

usually in this Forum -NSG- most posts are made by people who know what they are talking about.

for some reason this thread is made of fail (all around) The OP and -most of- the people bashing Canada.. the posters bashing Football.. the the people countering them.

The only statements (ive seen) that correspond to rality are the ones saying that All Canadian Big Cities do have a Chinatown and a Little Italy.

BTW is Canada racism free? of course not.
but this incident is not proof of racism. These young football players did not -could not- want to calm down.

Two strikes:
Not really

1. The article does not suggest that Canadians are racists.
I pointed that out in the post being quoted

2. The cops that made the arrests were ALL white?

FYI, the Toronto Police employs many people from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.

It was meant to be humourous. At least I took it to be.

Even the victims don't claim this was racist.

They quite clearly know what they were angry about.

Can't help if the assholes RIOTING OVER A FREAKING GAME just happen to be Latin American, can they? Fail
Suggesting riots/violence happen because of the race of the fans.


That said, if there was excessive force used, those involved should be reprimanded/punished. Ive seen the Videos and the spanish statements, so far one player has been taser-ed and others have been peper sprayed..

This is standart riot control, nothing to do with race.
So far Ive seen nothing to consider reprimanding these policemen.

Because it happened in Canada, in front of Canadian journalists, and about 10 thousand miles away from the nearest Chilean journalist?there was plenty of Chilean Journalists at hand.

Because it happened in Canada?same

At least the US supports the cultures that enter it. Canada just tries to assimilate everyone. It's awful.Fail,
Both the US and Canada support "cultures" with the left hand.. and try to assimilate with the right hand.

there is degrees to this but (you may argue that these policies are more aggressive in this or that country.. but they exist)

Well, in every school I've been in we were forced to learn French and we had to learn English. English I support, but if anything my secondary language should be of my heritage. The only history we learned through grade school and a quarter into high school is the unimpressive 100 years Canada has been around for, and some vague technological information about the Medieval Ages in England. Past that, you have to intentionally take courses for international history or for the language of your heritage, and at that point unless you intend to be a historian you might as well just spend a few nights on Wikipedia at your own leisure. Nothing is written in other languages anywhere ever. Hell, I don't even think French is the dominant minority (oxymoron?), and Quebec doesn't really count.
Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada.Fail
multiple entries.

you must be a window licker. we are taught french and english because we are a bilingual country. this means we support not just the english culture, which is the overwhelming majority, but the french one as well. this clearly shows that canada is about multiculturalism, and i'm not even going to comment about what you said about no little italies, that's just retarded. i guess you have never been to any city in canada ever, and i'm even talking about some of the smaller cities with populations of less than 100,000.Fail
Canadian -Constitution- having 2 official languages.. is absolutely NOT proof that Canada is not racist.

and more important, please learn to use the quote function.

Come on, Ifreann, everybody knows that when a white cop arrests a non-white person it's always because they're evil racists. *nod*Fail
Racism exist in many Police Corps.
Your mocking post is an insult to any victims of a racist Cop.

Well I've been working for Canadians for more than five years now. Never been there, but my job is to get big media files through a network out of Canada. In that time I've found them to be the most racist, violent, puppy-killing, raping and pillaging, thoughtless, selfish, dishonest, smelly, gaseous, bloated, water-retaining, potty-mouthed, perverted people on the face of the planet. Also, they say "a boot" instead of "about." :)LOL..
funny guy

As it may be with the rioting Chileans. What the hell did they expect rioting in a foreign nation? Don't be so stupid next time.Fail,
Rioting for a sport is wrong, No matter if you do it in your own country or overseas.

Am I the only one who read the paper?

It wasn't the Chilean fans who were rioting. In fact, some witnesses claim that the 'riot' started because the Toronto police wouldn't allow the Chilean soccer team to meet their fans.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070721.SOCCER21/TPStory/TPNational/Ontario/

This link tells the story from the cops' side. Like every other story dealing with police brutality, the cops apparently did nothing wrong. And like every other story, witnesses claim otherwise.

However, some witnesses say the altercation began when police prevented Chilean players from meeting a group of their own fans outside the stadium and signing autographs, and that police and security used a disproportionate amount of force against a group of teenagers.

You all seem to forget that many of these young men spent a good part of their lives growing up in a police state. They are used to seeing the police as the enemy of the people. So if they witnessed a police officer attacking a member of their team, I can understand why they would wish to defend him.

I am not saying the Chilean team was blameless. Even the Chileans admit that they were not sure what caused the violence. But at least I am not simply going to assume that they were at fault and the cops were completely in the right.

The whole team was detained overnight in the stadium. Those of you who know about the first few days under Pinohet will appreciate the bitter irony.

I overreacted. Sorry.
I knew I wasn't making a convincing argument from the start.

Two strikes:

1. The article does not suggest that Canadians are racists.

2. The cops that made the arrests were ALL white?

FYI, the Toronto Police employs many people from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds.

Methinks your sarcasm detector is on the fritz

Fail
Racism exist in many Police Corps.
Your mocking post is an insult to any victims of a racist Cop.

Too bad I never said racism didn't exist. Now I'm sure you're going to prattle on about insinuations, in which case refer to the above.


It was meant to be humourous. At least I took it to be.

At least someone gets it...

Except we don't generally have riots after American Football games, do we?

We don't generally have riots here either. Back in the '90s they were a problem, yes.

Fail
Suggesting riots/violence happen because of the race of the fans.

Ive seen the Videos and the spanish statements, so far one player has been taser-ed and others have been peper sprayed..

This is standart riot control, nothing to do with race.
So far Ive seen nothing to consider reprimanding these policemen.

FAIL. Perhaps you need lessons in reading comprehension. Can't help if the assholes RIOTING OVER A FREAKING GAME just happen to be Latin American, can they?

Where does it say they rioted because they were Latin American? It didn't. It said they were rioters who happened to be Latin American.

If you're going to be arrogant, make sure you know what the hell you're talking about.

Methinks your sarcasm detector is on the fritz

All fixed now.....

http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/sarcasmotron.gif

Occeandrive3,

You sound exactly like a very smart person I know who has absolutely no social skills and tries to make up for such by being right about EVERYTHING . . . except that he frequently isn't.

What I'm saying is that your terse, know-it-all tone makes you sound (um--read?) like a complete asshole, which makes other people more likely to attack your person and dismiss your statements without listening to them. It also doesn't help that, as Katganistan pointed out, you don't appear to have fully understood the posts that you MONOPOLIZED a WHOLE PAGE responding to.

In short, if you read this, I suggest you criticize more politely and re-read the relevant posts before doing so.

Well, in every school I've been in we were forced to learn French and we had to learn English. English I support, but if anything my secondary language should be of my heritage. The only history we learned through grade school and a quarter into high school is the unimpressive 100 years Canada has been around for, and some vague technological information about the Medieval Ages in England. Past that, you have to intentionally take courses for international history or for the language of your heritage, and at that point unless you intend to be a historian you might as well just spend a few nights on Wikipedia at your own leisure. Nothing is written in other languages anywhere ever. Hell, I don't even think French is the dominant minority (oxymoron?), and Quebec doesn't really count.
Some proof of this is you don't see any Little Italies or whatever in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=little+italy&fulltext=fulltext&sourceid=mozilla-search

If you take a look at the page, the is a Little Italy Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, and Winnipeg.

http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/sarcasmotron.gif

That's a low count.

:D

Occeandrive3,

You sound exactly like a very smart person I know who has absolutely no social skills and tries to make up for such by being right about EVERYTHING . . . except that he frequently isn't.

What I'm saying is that your terse, know-it-all tone makes you sound (um--read?) like a complete asshole, which makes other people more likely to attack your person and dismiss your statements without listening to them. It also doesn't help that, as Katganistan pointed out, you don't appear to have fully understood the posts that you MONOPOLIZED a WHOLE PAGE responding to.

In short, if you read this, I suggest you criticize more politely and re-read the relevant posts before doing so.I dont know all, no one does.

these are the things I have seen:
I have seen the game, The Agentineans are heavy favorites to win the World championship, they are the Class of the Tournament.. they have more skill and they were showing it.

the better team won.

one of the ways to stop a more skilled team is to play a robust game.

The Chileans were trying to play a robust type of game and they collected yellow cards and 2 reds.

had the ref not started pulling yellows and reds, the Chileans would have had a better shot.

The Chileans were talking very aggressively to the ref after the game was over..

at that point the police was called in to protect the German ref.
The Police told the exalted Chilean players to aboard the hotel Bus.. the Chileans refused.. and shit happened.

BTW, Kat has a point I did misread her post.
But i cant say the same for other posts (unless they say it was sarcasm)

Why don't you have a link to a Chilean newspaper? I'll leave it at that for now.http://diario.elmercurio.com/2007/07/21/deportes/_portada/noticias/1921FAAC-3552-4456-B007-97C39A619490.htm?id=

This is simply impossible to enjoy without photos. Or better yet, video clips. *nod*here.. some random photos
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070720/i/ra2873434524.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070720/ids_photos_sp/r1648287077.jpg

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/sp/060605worldcupsoccer/im:/070720/ids_photos_sp/r909713455.jpg

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070720/capt.bf9754a44a2d4baab085b93ae48b7b99.wcup_u20_world_cup_soccer_pch124.jpg
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070720/photos_ca_afp/68e5ebced315313ae00c4a1bc472ea1d

and here some video

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/news/story?id=579890&s=fut&type=story