NationStates Jolt Archive

Fascism is right-wing, fiercely nationalist, subjectivist in philosophy, and totalitarian in practice. It is an extreme reactionary form of capitalist government. Fascism began in Italy (1922-43), Germany (1933-45), Spain (1939-75), and various other nations, starting generally in the time between the first and second world war. The origin of the term comes from the Italian word fascismo, derived from the Latin fasces (a bundle of elm or birch rods containing an ax: once a symbol of authority in ancient Rome). Benito Mussolini adopted the symbol as the emblem of the Italian Fascist movement in 1919.

The social composition of Fascist movements have historically been small capitalists, low-level bureaucrats of all stripes (see petty bourgeoeis), with great success in rural areas, especially among farmers, peasants, and in the city, slum workers. Meanwhile, fascist leadership invariably comes to power through the sponsorship and funding of massive capitalists, without needing a revolution. These capitalists along with the top-tier leaders they create become fascism's ruling aristocracy.

Fascism has many different forms: the Italian fascism of Mussolini was often against Hitler’s Fascism, calling it “one hundred percent racism: Against everything and everyone: Yesterday against Christian civilization, today against Latin civilization, tomorrow, who knows, against the civilization of the whole world.” When Hitler began achieving impressive military conquests, which Mussolini had started in Ethiopia in 1935, the two formed an axis of power in June of 1940. The birth of fascism in Germany was aided by Western governments, who for two decades viewed it as the ideology that would successfully crush the Soviet Union. Not until Germany’s tanks were on the borders of England and France did those governments ‘switch’ sides: now it was their imperialist domination being threatened.

While Mussolini had once been a member of the Socialist party (banished from the party for his rampant support of World War I), Hitler fought leftists from the first. Thus it is not without irony, that in the name for his party Hitler used “socialist,” (Nazi = National Socialist) conceding to the engrained consciousness the German masses had for leftist ideals. It should be noted that fascism supported the community ideal, but not the grass-roots power of direct community democracy as Socialism demands, but the obideance and unity of the community to vanguard of the Nation. Further, orthodox fascism constantly parrots the Communist lexicon of working class struggle, etc, for reasons of populism. Neo-fascism, on the other hand, disdains any trace of Socialist/Communist terminology in thier labels, and instead appeals to new populist roots: the modern aspirations of many workers to be wealthly, to be stronger than others, etc.

Fascism championed corporate economics, which operated on an anarcho-syndicalist model in reverse: associations of bosses in particular industries determine working conditions, prices, etc. In this form of corporatism, bosses dictate everything from working hours to minimum wages, without goverment interference. The fascist corporate model differs from the more moderate corporatist model by eradicating all forms of regulatory control that protect workers (so-called "consumers"), the environment, price fixing, insider trading, and destroying all independent workers' organisations. In fascism, the corporate parliament either replaces the representative bodies of government or reduces them to a sham and the state freely intervenes in the activity of companies, either by bestowing favouritism, or handing them over to the control of rivals.

“to believe, to obey, to combat”

There are several fundamental characteristics of fascism, among them are:

1. Right Wing: Fascists are fervently against: Marxism, Socialism, Anarchism, Communism, Environmentalism; etc – in essence, they are against the progressive left in total, including moderate lefts (social democrats, etc). Fascism is an extreme right wing ideology, though it can be opportunistic.

2. Nationalism: Fascism places a very strong emphasis on patriotism and nationalism. Criticism of the nation's main ideals, especially war, is lambasted as unpatriotic at best, and treason at worst. State propaganda consistently broadcasts threats of attack, while justifying pre-emptive war. Fascism invariably seeks to instill in its people the warrior mentality: to always be vigilant, wary of strangers and suspicous of foreigners.

3. Hierarchy: Fascist society is ruled by an righteous leader, who is supported by an elite secret vanguard of capitalists. Hierarchy is prevalent throughout all aspects of society – every street, every workplace, every school, will have its local Hitler, part police-informer, part bureaucrat – and society is prepared for war at all times. The absolute power of the social hierarchy prevails over everything, and thus a totalitarian society is formed. Representative government is acceptable only if it can be controlled and regulated, direct democracy (e.g. Communism) is the greatest of all crimes. Any who oppose the social hierarchy of fascism will be imprisoned or executed.

4. Anti-equality: Fascism loathes the principles of economic equality and disdains equality between immigrant and citizen. Some forms of fascism extend the fight against equality into other areas: gender, sexual, minority or religious rights, for example.

5. Religious: Fascism contains a strong amount of reactionary religious beliefs, harking back to times when religion was strict, potent, and pure. Nearly all Fascist societies are Christian, and are supported by Catholic and Protestant churches.

6. Capitalist: Fascism does not require revolution to exist in captialist society: fascists can be elected into office (though their disdain for elections usually means manipulation of the electoral system). They view parliamentary and congressional systems of government to be inefficent and weak, and will do their best to minimize its power over their policy agenda. Fascism exhibits the worst kind of capitalism where corporate power is absolute, and all vestiges of workers' rights are destroyed.

7. War: Fascism is capitalism at the stage of impotent imperialism. War can create markets that would not otherwise exist by wrecking massive devastation on a society, which then requires reconstruction! Fascism can thus "liberate" the survivors, provide huge loans to that society so fascist corporations can begin the process of rebuilding.

8. Voluntarist Ideology: Fascism adopts a certain kind of “voluntarism;” they believe that an act of will, if sufficiently powerful, can make something true. Thus all sorts of ideas about racial inferiority, historical destiny, even physical science, are supported by means of violence, in the belief that they can be made true. It is this sense that Fascism is subjectivist.

9. Anti-Modern: Fascism loathes all kinds of modernism, especially creativity in the arts, whether acting as a mirror for life (where it does not conform to the Fascist ideal), or expressing deviant or innovative points of view. Fascism invariably burns books and victimises artists, and artists which do not promote the fascists ideals are seen as “decadent.” Fascism is hostile to broad learning and interest in other cultures, since such pursuits threaten the dominance of fascist myths. The peddling of conspiracy theories is usually substituted for the objective study of history.

I thought I might use this definition article to start a debate and discussion on the nature of this political ideology.

You thought wrong. This thread will be about mushrooms.

Do you like mushroms on your pizza?

Gee whiz, that's not a biased definition at all.

You thought wrong. This thread will be about mushrooms.

Do you like mushroms on your pizza?
I do. :D

Are they... magical? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MagicShroom.gif

I do. :D

Are they... magical? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MagicShroom.gif

These things are better off a surprise. :)

You know, you really should reference your source, not just quote it as if you're the author.

Fascism - underrated as far as the Italian sense goes, and were it not for being Hitler's bumboy, Mussolini would be remembered as one of the best leaders of the 20th century.

At any pont where Italy wasn't ruled by some kind of despot, in some shape or other, nothing got done, almost everyone was poor and the peasants had a really, really shitty time of it.

Under fascist rule, Italy is a damned sight better. In almost every way.

Democracy is basically overrated.

You know, you really should reference your source, not just quote it as if you're the author.

it's marxist archive, that's where I quote most of my stuff from.

it's marxist archive, that's where I quote most of my stuff from.
Right. Well most of it is kind of bullshit.

For example, Mussolini was actually in favour of confiscating excessive gains from war from arms manufacturers etc. and redistributing it. He also wasn't expelled from the socialist party in Italy because of his excessive war views, it's mainly because they knew he'd fragment the party because of the fact that he had a great many supporters within the party who were also disfavourable to Italian neutrality in the Great War.

The fact that he spoke out in Il Populo, his own newpaper, about fascist violence and tried to get the Squadristi to tone it down, because he saw that instead of breaking the stranglehold of a socialist movement in the north that was brutal and elitist, as it had done in the early period of 1921/2, they were causing chaos and meting out revenge attacks, which was something he wanted to avoid if at all possible.

In fact, there are so many good things that he did compared to many at this time, and I can't really be arsed to list it all, but if you bring something up about Mussolini, I can probably kick your arse with it, to be honest.

I do. :D

Are they... magical? http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/MagicShroom.gif

Jesus Christ, what don't you have a smiley for?

Jesus Christ, what don't you have a smiley for?

The king of babylon bestowing the nation's highest honour upon a poor slave girl named celeste.

The king of babylon bestowing the nation's highest honour upon a poor slave girl named celeste.

Be weird if he did.

Fascism - underrated as far as the Italian sense goes, and were it not for being Hitler's bumboy, Mussolini would be remembered as one of the best leaders of the 20th century.
When everybody forgets the invasion of Ethiopia, of course.

Under fascist rule, Italy is a damned sight better. In almost every way.
You know, if I close my eyes, you could almost be Chris!

Yeah, I actually don't like mushrooms. I think I am a cheese pizza, or canadian bacon pizza person.

It's always funny/sad when ideologues try to redefine, rewrite the definitions and criteria of terms they use as attacks or labels in their propaganda. Rewritten in a way that can only include those of whom they disagree with and emphatically exclude themselves. All to try and prove the Ev!LnesS!!1! of said other group or view.

Mushrooms on Pizza is awesome...

Mushrooms on Pizza is awesome...

I prefer my pizzas plain.. or with doner meat! Mmmmmmmm... Suspect meat..

Jesus Christ, what don't you have a smiley for?
I'm amazing myself time and again. :p
The king of babylon bestowing the nation's highest honour upon a poor slave girl named celeste.
Now that might be little tricky considering that this forum is PG-13...
Be weird if he did.
Who says I don't? :eek:

When everybody forgets the invasion of Ethiopia, of course.
Which was quietly supported by both France and England, which cost both their Foreign Ministers' jobs, and the integrity of the whole of the League of Nations.

Still yes, it was bad, and to be honest, by the time Hitler had been in power for a couple of years, it was all bad again in Italy as Mussolini tried to be more like Hitler and less like...errm... Mussolini.

Bit of a shame, especially with what the Second World War also did to Italy.
You know, if I close my eyes, you could almost be Chris!
*shrugs*

It's just true. Outside of the Romans and the more despotic city states (esp. Venice), as well as Mussolini, Italy has generally been in a mess.

I think Italy's a bit of a special case though, and Britain wouldn't really suit fascism that much. We kind of get along with our lives in something of a moderate-ish way, and don't go in for flag-waving etc. because we find it distasteful and quite embarrassing.

You thought wrong. This thread will be about mushrooms.

Do you like mushroms on your pizza?
I love mushrooms on my everything. It doesn't matter where I am, or what I am eating, if I can, I will arder mushrooms. Consequently Italian and chinese foods are my favourite, due to their consistent mycophilia. Not only are Italian mushrooms big and springy, but chinese mushrooms are often weirds and funky (don't you just like the idea of eating 'black fungus?!).

Yes, win is made of mushrooms, and seeinf this thread is now about them, I suppose this thread would therefore be made of win.

Fascism - underrated as far as the Italian sense goes, and were it not for being Hitler's bumboy, Mussolini would be remembered as one of the best leaders of the 20th century.

At any pont where Italy wasn't ruled by some kind of despot, in some shape or other, nothing got done, almost everyone was poor and the peasants had a really, really shitty time of it.

Under fascist rule, Italy is a damned sight better. In almost every way.

Democracy is basically overrated. Plus I look like Mussolini, and as noted mussolini was Italian, and thus possessing a direct cultural connection to mushrooms.

It's always funny/sad when ideologues try to redefine, rewrite the definitions and criteria of terms they use as attacks or labels in their propaganda. Rewritten in a way that can only include those of whom they disagree with and emphatically exclude themselves. All to try and prove the Ev!LnesS!!1! of said other group or view.... wait.. what do you mean?

Che vuoi dice?

tu tutti piaci funghi?

When everybody forgets the invasion of Ethiopia, of course.How would that take anything away from the good leadership that Yootopia mentioned?

How would that take anything away from the good leadership that Yootopia mentioned?


In addition to conventional weaponry, Badoglio's troops also made substantial use of mustard gas, in both artillery and aerial bombardments. In total, the Italians deployed between 300 and 500 tonnes of mustard gas during the war, despite having signed the 1925 Geneva Protocol. The deployment of gas was not restricted to the battlefield, however, as civilians were also targeted by the Italians, as part of their attempt to terrorise the local population. Furthermore, the Italians carried out gas attacks on Red Cross camps and ambulances.[6]

The armed forces disposed of a vast arsenal of grenades and bombs loaded with mustard gas which were dropped from airplanes. This substance was also sprayed directly from above like an "insecticide" onto enemy combatants and villages. It was Mussolini himself who authorized the use of the weapons:

"Rome, 27 October '35. A.S.E. Graziani. The use of gas as an ultima ratio to overwhelm enemy resistance and in case of counterattack is authorized. Mussolini."

"Rome, 28 December '35. A.S.E. Badoglio. Given the enemy system I have authorized V.E. the use even on a vast scale of any gas and flamethrowers. Mussolini."

Mussolini and his generals sought to cloak the operations of chemical warfare in the utmost secrecy, but the use of gas was revealed to the world through the denunciations of the International Red Cross and of many foreign observers. The Italian reaction to these revelations consisted in the "erroneous" bombardment (at least 19 times) of Red Cross tents posted in the areas of military encampment of the Ethiopian resistance. The orders imparted by Mussolini, with respect to the Ethiopian population, were very clear:[7]

"Rome, 5 June 1936. A.S.E. Graziani. All rebels taken prisoner must be killed. Mussolini."

"Rome, 8 July 1936. A.S.E. Graziani. I have authorized once again V.E. to begin and systematically conduct a politics of terror and extermination of the rebels and the complicit population. Without the lex talionis one cannot cure the infection in time. Await confirmation. Mussolini."

The predominant part of the work of repression was carried out by Italians who, besides the bombs laced with mustard gas, instituted forced labor camps, installed public gallows, killed hostages, and mutilated the corpses of their enemies. Graziani ordered the elimination of captured guerrillas by way of throwing them out of airplanes in mid-flight. Many Italian troops had themselves photographed next to cadavers hanging from the gallows or hanging around chests full of detached heads. One episode in the Italian occupation of Ethiopia was the slaughter of Addis Ababa of February, 1937 which followed upon an attempt to assassinate Graziani. In the course of an official ceremony a bomb exploded next to the general. The response was immediate and cruel, as he said "Avenge me! Kill them all!". The Black Shirts of the Fascist Militia fired randomly into the Ethiopians present at the ceremony killing large numbers, and immediately after poured out into the streets of Addis Ababa where they killed the Ethiopian civilians that they encountered. They also set fire to homes in order to prevent the inhabitants from leaving and organized the mass executions of groups of 50-100 people.
source: wiki
Yeah UB, reactionary as usual it seems, the Ethiopians loved the great and benevolent fascist rule of Mussolini, those that survived that is. Gassing the Red Cross, that truly is the work of a great and wonderful leader, he is an example to all of us.

All extremist ideologies are bad. Moderate is the way to go.

As Erik Von Kuehnelt-Leddihin irrefutably proved in Leftism Revisited: From De Sade and Marx to Hitler and Pol Pot, fascism is actually a left-wing ideology.

As Erik Von Kuehnelt-Leddihin irrefutably proved in Leftism Revisited: From De Sade and Marx to Hitler and Pol Pot, fascism is actually a left-wing ideology.

Lol, I am not sorry but the right most definitely has the rights for military juntas, fascist states and oppressive monarchies, they are pretty much reactionary by definition. The last source you quoted believed that for 'libertarianism' to prevail - all homosexuals, communists, environmentalists and those opposed to 'family conservative values' had to be 'removed from society'. I am sorry but I am wary to take any of your sources at face value.

All extremist ideologies are bad. Moderate is the way to go.The moderate's favoured economic system directly and indirectly kills millions of people each year. Clearly moderate is only the way to go if youharbour some fanatical, irrational hatred of peoples and planet.

You thought wrong. This thread will be about mushrooms.

Do you like mushroms on your pizza?

mushrooms are amazin!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D

As Erik Von Kuehnelt-Leddihin irrefutably proved in Leftism Revisited: From De Sade and Marx to Hitler and Pol Pot, fascism is actually a left-wing ideology.

Then would you care to explain why Mussolini's rise to power was strongly supported by the Papacy, the bourgeoisie, and the army (all of which are traditionally reactionary and conservative); and why opposition to him came largely from the PSI (socialist party)? Was the King of Italy, who refused to declare martial law and instead appointed Mussolini Prime Minister after the March on Rome, a leftist?

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a goose...

-snip-

Quoting large blocks of text without including a link is a breach of copywright law, not to mention dishonest.

Then would you care to explain why Mussolini's rise to power was strongly supported by the Papacy, the bourgeoisie, and the army (all of which are traditionally reactionary and conservative); and why opposition to him came largely from the PSI (socialist party)? Was the King of Italy, who refused to declare martial law and instead appointed Mussolini Prime Minister after the March on Rome, a leftist?

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a goose...

Just ignore him, he's basically a DK/MTAE clone with a apparachek conservative agenda.

Quoting large blocks of text without including a link is a breach of copywright law, not to mention dishonest.

Are you saying the International Marxist Archive are going to sue me for breach of copyright? That's almost funny in it's irony, plus I said where I got it if you actually bother to read threads that is.

Are you saying the International Marxist Archive are going to sue me for breach of copyright? That's almost funny in it's irony, plus I said where I got it if you actually bother to read threads that is.

I read the thread, and you only ever said that you quote "most' of your stuff" from there. It's poor form to post material without a link, as it makes it difficult for for other people to read the source for themselves.

When everybody forgets the invasion of Ethiopia, of course.

While using Chemical Weapons in the process.

It's always funny/sad when ideologues try to redefine, rewrite the definitions and criteria of terms they use as attacks or labels in their propaganda. Rewritten in a way that can only include those of whom they disagree with and emphatically exclude themselves. All to try and prove the Ev!LnesS!!1! of said other group or view.

Indeed as my recent discussion with him on populism proves.

All extremist ideologies are bad. Moderate is the way to go.

I agree with you 100%

How would that take anything away from the good leadership that Yootopia mentioned?
Erm to be fair it was bad of him.

I just disagree that Fascism is always bad, or indeed always right wing (although this is predominantly the case).

Then would you care to explain why Mussolini's rise to power was strongly supported by the Papacy, the bourgeoisie, and the army (all of which are traditionally reactionary and conservative); and why opposition to him came largely from the PSI (socialist party)? Was the King of Italy, who refused to declare martial law and instead appointed Mussolini Prime Minister after the March on Rome, a leftist?
Seemingly you forget the ten or so years for which he wrote for Socialism not only in Italy but for a great many Italian-language papers in the US, and the fact that Lenin himself pointed out to the socialists that he would be an excellent leader for a revolution on their side, as well as his support up until the Great War within the socialist party itself.

I'm amazing myself time and again. :p

Who says I don't? :eek:

That's weird, man.

Seemingly you forget the ten or so years for which he wrote for Socialism not only in Italy but for a great many Italian-language papers in the US, and the fact that Lenin himself pointed out to the socialists that he would be an excellent leader for a revolution on their side, as well as his support up until the Great War within the socialist party itself.Wouldn't that be like calling neoConservatism a leftwing ideology, if Bush has flirted with the US Socialists in his youth?

Wouldn't that be like calling neoConservatism a leftwing ideology, if Bush has flirted with the US Socialists in his youth?
Not really, since Mussolini spent a fair amount of taxpayers' money on electrifying the villages, building the main roads up etc. and basically, up until Hitler got involved in his life, wasn't too bad a leader of his country.

As described earlier, though, when Hitler arrived on the scene it was basically an instant loss for Italy. 1934 onwards in Italy = a mess of the highest, because Il Duce was spending more time cavorting with Hitler and less focussing on running his own country.

Not really, since Mussolini spent a fair amount of taxpayers' money on electrifying the villages, building the main roads up etc.So... Not really, because yes? :p

No, I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I just don't get what you think the difference is.

So... Not really, because yes? :p

No, I'm not trying to get a rise out of you, I just don't get what you think the difference is.
Mussolini stayed relatively left-wing as far as public works etc. went for the first 10 years of his proper political career. Hitler swung him to the right, but he still wasn't on the same scale as Bush is in terms of right wing-hood.

The two are rather different in terms of the level of change from left to right, and also in the time spent in both ideologies.

Mussolini was a socialist for about 15 years, in the middle for another 5-10, and then right wing up until his death, which was, by that time, pretty deserved.

Seemingly you forget the ten or so years for which he wrote for Socialism not only in Italy but for a great many Italian-language papers in the US, and the fact that Lenin himself pointed out to the socialists that he would be an excellent leader for a revolution on their side, as well as his support up until the Great War within the socialist party itself.

Yes, he was a Socialist when he was younger, where did I deny that?

You seem to be forgetting that he unleashed the Arditi on Socialist unions; had Matteotti, the leader of the PSI, murdered (or at the very least turned a blind eye to the murder); and that the main reason he was supported by the Papacy and the bourgeoisie was that he promised to smash Socialism. His pre-fascist views are interesting, but irrelevant. Electrifying the odd village does not a socialist make, especially when one considers that the Fascist syndicates which replaced the Socialist unions were heavily weighted in favour of industrialists and employers.

Yes, he was a Socialist when he was younger, where did I deny that?
True, fair play.
You seem to be forgetting that he unleashed the Arditi on Socialist unions
In 1921-22 the PSI and various other groups gave easily as good as they got, in addition he wrote constantly in his papers about how they should have stopped the violence.

Keep in mind that until it became the actual Fascist Party, he had very little control over local leaders, which is why the pacts to stave off violence between fascists and socialists were frequently broken (although again, it wasn't a one-way fight by any means).
had Matteotti, the leader of the PSI, murdered (or at the very least turned a blind eye to the murder)
Which was bad indeed.
and that the main reason he was supported by the Papacy and the bourgeoisie was that he promised to smash Socialism.
True. On the other hand, the Socialists in the north in '21-22 were actually pretty fascistic themselves.

Yes, the workers controlled the price and production rates. But you were in a lot of trouble were you not in one of the Socialist parties, or indeed if you didn't want to conform for whatever reason - you were basically ostracised by the local community under the orders of the local leader.
His pre-fascist views are interesting, but irrelevant. [QUOTE]
Meh, I'm not really sure they were that irrelevant.

I would disagree, for in the period of the 1920s and '30s, he was one of the more socialist leaders in Europe, albeit in a way that most actual socialists would find a bit disgraceful.
[QUOTE]Electrifying the odd village does not a socialist make
It wasn't just 'the odd village', he started a huge electrification campaign similar to that taking place in the USSR at the very same time, in addition to building roads, improving the railways and so on and so forth.
especially when one considers that the Fascist syndicates which replaced the Socialist unions were heavily weighted in favour of industrialists and employers.
To be honest, considering the period of 1918-22 in Italy, it's not very surprising that people didn't want any more of the PSI. Not only were the continually splitting up and reforming new parties, they were weak in government and basically there were 2 sides to parliament locking horns, which led to nothing getting done at all to help the general population.

Hence why fascism was perhaps for the best, at that time, in Italy.

Although a good amount of that article is BS, it does make some accurate descriptions of Fascism.

The fact is, it is a inherently right-wing, totalitarian ideology, just as Communism is inherently a left-wing, totalitarian ideology.

Although a good amount of that article is BS, it does make some accurate descriptions of Fascism.

The fact is, it is a inherently right-wing, totalitarian ideology, just as Communism is inherently a left-wing, totalitarian ideology.

snap!

In the opening you deal with typical properties of facism. I think, that does not match in general.
Hitler is an example. Although he really hated socialists his viewpoint was comparable social before he won the elections 1933. Of course he defined "society" different. But his plitics were to benefit the workers first. Maybe cause he wanted to win the elections. But end of the 1920ies in Europe and especially in Germany there was extreme unemployment and aswell extreme differences between poor and rich. So equalizing income for a main part of "the society" was (i) quite close to socialism, and (ii) gladly recognized by the electors.
I agree, racism was indeed a major part in Hitlers challange, "Mein Kampf" was written 1922 (!) where he exactly posted what will happen to jews, communists ect. But unfortunately, a lot of the "intelligence" and of the economic power (e.g. Thyssen, Krupp, IG Farben..) and of the "forgotten military power from WW I, the old generals) just ignored that. Their main aspect was hailing economy to open up new markets. And as lots of governers before Hitler failed, they gave finally support to him.
Conclusion: The intrinsic evil face of facism has sometimes a gladly recognised smile, especially if you are part of a kind of population that will not suffer after the over take of power.
See, even IBM deliverd Hitler logistics to run the concentrations camps.

The problem with facism is - my viewpoint - not the suffering of minorities. It is the expected win-win situation of the others that will not suffer.
Ban facism
Ban intolerance
Ban violence
And please, ban national feelings of pride ! It is just good luck if you were born in a "civilized" country.

I can't agree more with Red Tide2.

Leftwingers say fascism is right-wing, and rightwingers say it's left-wing. Interesting, ain't it?

I can't agree more with Red Tide2.

Leftwingers say fascism is right-wing, and rightwingers say it's left-wing. Interesting, ain't it?

Can't it be both?

Not really, since Mussolini spent a fair amount of taxpayers' money on electrifying the villages, building the main roads up etc. and basically, up until Hitler got involved in his life, wasn't too bad a leader of his country.

As described earlier, though, when Hitler arrived on the scene it was basically an instant loss for Italy. 1934 onwards in Italy = a mess of the highest, because Il Duce was spending more time cavorting with Hitler and less focussing on running his own country.
And mustard gas bombing Red Cross camps, that's something to be proud of to, plus mass purges of Ethiopians etc, the man is a hero, saying 'Hitler made him do it' is remarkably poor form.

Ban facism
Ban intolerance
Ban violence
And please, ban national feelings of pride ! It is just good luck if you were born in a "civilized" country.

A society that bans thoughts isn't desirable either.

Not sure if I'm off topic or not, but here's my comments on Italy during Fascism:

Italy only beat Ethiopia because they were weak, their version of an armored Brigade was basically a horse mounted Rifleman, and the closest thing they had to a bomber was a paper airplane with paper bombs.

Italy's army wasn't anywhere near professional they were mere amatures, because when they fought the Brits they got thier arses kicked all the way back to Italy.

I'm not sure if someone already made this point but I'm just putting in my comments, and now I'm shutting up.

Fascism is a near total lack of beer.

...hey, I'm at least nearly as accurate as AP's original post.

Can't it be both?

Centrist due to two equal extremes?

The king of babylon bestowing the nation's highest honour upon a poor slave girl named celeste.

That emoticon will exist, however, in 3... 2... 1...

Can't it be both?

Yes, yes it can, and at the exact same time, it is neither.

The only way fascism can be right- or left-wing is if you use the cock-and-bull bipolar scale for politics, and only then when you want to associate your opponents with something mean and violent.

Most folks would be fully willing to admit that politics is not a sliding scale, rather that it is a vast, multi-dimensional space with various points representing different beliefs.

Heck, the only reason that the left-right dichotomy ever came into existence was because of how some people sat in a room, at one point in time.

And mustard gas bombing Red Cross camps, that's something to be proud of to, plus mass purges of Ethiopians etc, the man is a hero, saying 'Hitler made him do it' is remarkably poor form.
Erm, no I did say that they were extremely poor things of him to do ;)

He wasn't perfect by any means whatsoever, but I think he was the right thing for Italy at the time.