NationStates Jolt Archive

A lot of things I've seen lately have had me thinking about our internet personas. Not how we project ourselves necessarily but how we're received.

You hit this stage of sorts on a forum where hundreds of people and they see something in us nearly right away. We're the clown or the brain or what have you and we're heard that way from then on. It's hard to imagine LG being particularly serious or to imagine TCT being particularly goofy.

I watched an interaction between Neo Arthais and Chandy yesterday and had I not known a little more about the voice of Chandy (I'm going to call voice everything that we can't hear or see about a person's comments), I would have reacted pretty similarly to NA. He was hearing her comments with a tone, a voice, that he'd created for her, not HER voice. A third party pointed it out to me and was quite angry with NA.

Then I got it. I hope. It's kind of like we're all characters from the breakfast club and because the forum is so, well, limited, we never get to know us as characters better than what we know of TBC characters in the first fifteen minutes. We think we know and we expect others to know, but we're operating and reacting to people based on a very limited knowledge of them. And it makes us angry, or hurts our feelings, or makes us bicker about stupid things, or inspires entire forums full of hate messages about some of us.

When I'm speaking I can't hear the person on the other side laughing or crying or see the shock or pain on their face from what I said, but more than likely they expect me to. And vice versa.

I have to admit I've resisted the idea that getting to know one another better was somehow a benefit to the things we do on this forum, but I've flipped on that point. When we get to know one another better we get closer to the true voice of the person, the proper context for our posts.

Thoughts?

Hmmm....interesting idea.

Very interesting idea. It certainly seems to make sense. Maybe it's a lack of socialisation among members. Maybe it's a symptom of the membership cycling, and we just haven't gotten to know the new roster of posters very well yet.

its much harder to get to know one another on a forum that limits "spam" threads like this one does. as soon as you let your personality show in a goofy thread its locked and months might go by before you have another chance.

it does annoy me when a long time poster is misunderstood (i didnt read the NA/chand exchange). sometimes i read a thread and i feel that the poster's real point is overlooked in favor of a more stereotypical point that would be made by a cartoon version of that poster.

and i cant remember reading anything goofy by TCT but im no longer surprised when LG writes up a thoughtful, spot-on post on a serious subject.

Isn't that what emoticons are supposed to be used for? I know lots of people have trouble interpreting the tone of email. Perhaps they are just not very happy people. :)

I guess I'm like Allison Reynolds, because none of you can understand me.

its much harder to get to know one another on a forum that limits "spam" threads like this one does. as soon as you let your personality show in a goofy thread its locked and months might go by before you have another chance.

it does annoy me when a long time poster is misunderstood (i didnt read the NA/chand exchange). sometimes i read a thread and i feel that the poster's real point is overlooked in favor of a more stereotypical point that would be made by a cartoon version of that poster.

and i cant remember reading anything goofy by TCT but im no longer surprised when LG writes up a thoughtful, spot-on post on a serious subject.

Actually that was part of my point but the opening post was getting too long.

At one time there were more threads with people playing a bit. The NSG Pub and that one I can't think of the name of where people were constantly killing peasants and Tribes and I had a huge ridiculous war. I think that the play helps the real purpose of this forum be realized and, honestly, I'm afraid I forgot that for far too long, and perhaps the mods and admins have as well.

A cartoon version? That's exactly it. It's like they're picturing you as some ridiculous exaggeration and fitting your posts into that instead of hearing your true voice. I don't think it's intentional and, for my part, I feel like I've missed out on a lot.

It's very hard to project your real personality and mood into just text. In person, most of our feelings are projected in our body language and the way we say things. You can type in certain ways to get across an attitude, but it is only ever a diminished version of the real thing, and is so limited in variety. I'm always explaining what I really mean on msn to people.

Jocabia, are you saying you want me to hug you?

Come on. Let's hug. It'll be good for both of us. :)

Jocabia, are you saying you want me to hug you?

Come on. Let's hug. It'll be good for both of us. :)

Yeah, a little bit, I am.

It's very hard to project your real personality and mood into just text. In person, most of our feelings are projected in our body language and the way we say things. You can type in certain ways to get across an attitude, but it is only ever a diminished version of the real thing, and is so limited in variety. I'm always explaining what I really mean on msn to people.

It really is a cartoon of what we really are or the image we have of the characters when TBC starts versus who they seem to "become" by the end.

A lot of things I've seen lately have had me thinking about our internet personas. Not how we project ourselves necessarily but how we're received.

You hit this stage of sorts on a forum where hundreds of people and they see something in us nearly right away. We're the clown or the brain or what have you and we're heard that way from then on. It's hard to imagine LG being particularly serious or to imagine TCT being particularly goofy.

I watched an interaction between Neo Arthais and Chandy yesterday and had I not known a little more about the voice of Chandy (I'm going to call voice everything that we can't hear or see about a person's comments), I would have reacted pretty similarly to NA. He was hearing her comments with a tone, a voice, that he'd created for her, not HER voice. A third party pointed it out to me and was quite angry with NA.

Then I got it. I hope. It's kind of like we're all characters from the breakfast club and because the forum is so, well, limited, we never get to know us as characters better than what we know of TBC characters in the first fifteen minutes. We think we know and we expect others to know, but we're operating and reacting to people based on a very limited knowledge of them. And it makes us angry, or hurts our feelings, or makes us bicker about stupid things, or inspires entire forums full of hate messages about some of us.

When I'm speaking I can't hear the person on the other side laughing or crying or see the shock or pain on their face from what I said, but more than likely they expect me to. And vice versa.

I have to admit I've resisted the idea that getting to know one another better was somehow a benefit to the things we do on this forum, but I've flipped on that point. When we get to know one another better we get closer to the true voice of the person, the proper context for our posts.

Thoughts?

Being a part of said interaction, and someone who's 'voice' you probably aren't familiar with, I'll say that your comments ring true.

It's all to easy to forget that people on the other end of this text link may have a fundamentally different view of things than you do, and I think some of the participants in the aforementioned debate have done so, and are therefore misinterpreting comments.

I'll also welcome a call for more somewhat social threads, where you can just chat with people.

Bring back Paradise Club!

It really is a cartoon of what we really are or the image we have of the characters when TBC starts versus who they seem to "become" by the end.

having read through a particular thread dedicated to YOU on a different forum i think that you are especially prone to being hated for "the role you play" here.

it seems that people participate in threads here with you, going at it hammer and tong, then blame YOU for extending the debate as if they have no idea that they could have ended it themselves at any time. then they resent YOU for the way things went.

I guess I'm like Allison Reynolds, because none of you can understand me.

What, the lonely indie chick?

It really is a cartoon of what we really are or the image we have of the characters when TBC starts versus who they seem to "become" by the end.

Well, to be fair, they pretty much were what they seemed. Except for Judd Nelson's character, I suppose, and maybe Emelio Estavez's. The preppy bitch was still a preppy bitch, and admitted to being a preppy bitch, and really had no excuse for being so, as evidenced by the exchange between her and the nerd.

<snip>

Bring back Paradise Club!

is your name one of those picture anagrams where if you just look at it right it means something? and is it poetical?

Well, to be fair, they pretty much were what they seemed. Except for Judd Nelson's character, I suppose, and maybe Emelio Estavez's. The preppy bitch was still a preppy bitch, and admitted to being a preppy bitch, and really had no excuse for being so, as evidenced by the exchange between her and the nerd.

pffft

they were all what they were and more than what they were.

Perhaps we should all use Gabbly more. I admit I have not been on it for sometime, but remember having a few good chats with some people a while ago. The immediacy of it can add a better element of realism to the people's personas there.

is your name one of those picture anagrams where if you just look at it right it means something? and is it poetical?

Not really, no. It was taken because Universe had already gone.

I generally get abbreviated to Uni or UvV.

What, the lonely indie chick?

Yes. She likes vodka, too.

Meh. I generally try to approach intelligently written posts with some level of understanding. With rare exception, I don't try to actually create a concept of the person behind the poster. Sometimes though, the person is far too obvious to ignore.

I can be the janitor please.

Yes. She likes vodka, too.

No, she lied about that. She said she was a compulsive liar - really, I think she was just talking for the attention and reaction.

I've always wondered what NS thinks of me mostly because its refreshing to hear that you must be more than one person ;)

though I've never seen breakfast club because I'm 17 and English I suppose :confused:

All that's needed is a more prolific use of emoticons. http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

I've always wondered what NS thinks of me mostly because its refreshing to hear that you must be more than one person ;)

though I've never seen breakfast club because I'm 17 and English I suppose :confused:

being english is no excuse.

rent it.

I've always wondered what NS thinks of me mostly because its refreshing to hear that you must be more than one person ;)

though I've never seen breakfast club because I'm 17 and English I suppose :confused:
I saw it three times before I even knew it was the Breakfast Club. It randomly comes on Comedy Central. Though being English I don't think you get that.

No, she lied about that. She said she was a compulsive liar - really, I think she was just talking for the attention and reaction.

I like you, I really do.

Sure, I agree with you. We fill in the gaps in knowledge with what we think the other person might do, and usually it falls along black-and-white lines. That is, one person gets endowed with ideal characteristics for whatever reason, maybe your first big impression of them was positive, and another is invariably villainous for the same reason.

That is why I get so excited about meetups, it's fun but it's also thrilling and shocking to see the real people behind the names.

ok whos' got weed hidden in a locker

being english is no excuse.

rent it.

He isn't missing much.

is it really that good?

Oh, go ahead. What will it hurt? You'll understand a few more cultural references, at least. Like the lipstick trick. ;)

being english is no excuse.

rent it.

I saw it three times before I even knew it was the Breakfast Club. It randomly comes on Comedy Central. Though being English I don't think you get that.

is it really that good?

He isn't missing much.

Not enough to rent it.

is it really that good?

By "saw it three times" I mean "there was nothing else on and this was so I left the tv channel on the station."

By "saw it three times" I mean "there was nothing else on and this was so I left the tv channel on the station."

That's sort of the same reason I've seen "Twister" close to 7 or 8 times.

is it really that good?

its a part of movie history that you cannot consider yourself a movie fan without having seen.

dont watch a chopped up version. rent it some day when you are in the mood for a movie about US teens in the '80s.

I have to point out, and I don't believe I'm wrong in this, that the assumptions we make about other posters on here aren't simply colored by the facets of their personalities we see of them, but also by the nature of the posts we see, and the emotional investment we have in debate. It's far less pronounced and far less of a problem in social threads, where an "our side" and "their side" doesn't exist.

rent it some day when you are in the mood for a movie about US teens in the '80s.

You'll understand a few more cultural references, at least. Like the lipstick trick. ;)

will I be needing some tissue? :p

will I be needing some tissue? :p

I'm going to err on the side of caution and say yes.

Can't we just all post our MySpace accounts! http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

http://www.myspace.com/cra5h07

will I be needing some tissue? :p

only if you try the lipstick trick

is it really that good?

probably not. The only real reason to watch it is because of it's cultural significance (which is mostly true of anything with Molly Ringwald in it) if you want to understand Americans who were teens in the 80's you gotta watch the brat pack movies.

also "the world is an imperfect place, screws fall out all the time" and "if he gets up, we'll all get up, it will be anarchy!"

I've spent a good few months lurking about and here's my take on it:

It seems as though you've finally hit the reality of this board. As a debate forum, it almost always forces one to classify people into those that agree and those that disagree (read: are wrong). Rather than seeing that others do not share you viewpoint on how things work, you're encouraged to essentially prove how wrong they are.

There's no need, in this type of environment, to go beyond that classification and, indeed, attempts to actually get to know people here are usually shipped off to the spam forum. So we're stuck and almost encouraged to see the other posters in this light: they're either with us (right) or against us (wrong). Rather than socialize and discuss, we're told to debate. In that, some start to lose sight of the fact that there are people on the other end of what we're saying.

Hell, this sounded a lot better in my head...

probably not. The only real reason to watch it is because of it's cultural significance (which is mostly true of anything with Molly Ringwald in it) if you want to understand Americans who were teens in the 80's you gotta watch the brat pack movies.

also "the world is an imperfect place, screws fall out all the time" and "if he gets up, we'll all get up, it will be anarchy!"

it also helps one to understand jay's rant in "dogma" when he goes on and on about fucking john hughes and fucking shermer illinois and why he and silent bob went to illinois in the first place.

http://www.myspace.com/cra5h07

you do know how bad it makes you look when you have to use layouts :p

Well, we have our ways of socializing anyway. There's always Gabbly, and a few of us are on offspring forums just for spamming and getting to know each other and having fun. Plus, the NS Meetups! I've met two NSers so far, and I am looking forward to meeting a few more at the end of August. :cool:

I have to point out, and I don't believe I'm wrong in this, that the assumptions we make about other posters on here aren't simply colored by the facets of their personalities we see of them, but also by the nature of the posts we see, and the emotional investment we have in debate. It's far less pronounced and far less of a problem in social threads, where an "our side" and "their side" doesn't exist.

I've spent a good few months lurking about and here's my take on it:

It seems as though you've finally hit the reality of this board. As a debate forum, it almost always forces one to classify people into those that agree and those that disagree (read: are wrong). Rather than seeing that others do not share you viewpoint on how things work, you're encouraged to essentially prove how wrong they are.

There's no need, in this type of environment, to go beyond that classification and, indeed, attempts to actually get to know people here are usually shipped off to the spam forum. So we're stuck and almost encouraged to see the other posters in this light: they're either with us (right) or against us (wrong). Rather than socialize and discuss, we're told to debate. In that, some start to lose sight of the fact that there are people on the other end of what we're saying.

Hell, this sounded a lot better in my head...

which is why we need more social threads. its better to understand that there is a (maybe interesting) person behind the posts instead of just that conservative bastard who wants to enslave women by disallowing abortions. (or whatever)

i like to remember a few things about the long term posters and to remember where they typically stand on the issues of threads i participate in. its boring to repeat the same points over and over again as if we had never debated the topic before.

That's sort of the same reason I've seen "Twister" close to 7 or 8 times.
Ah, the only thing that absolves me of the amount of times I've seen Megaforce is the even worse decision by the channels to show it that often, because I've never rented it and I've watched it a ton of times.


To The Breakfast Club thing-I think that it has allowed us, since that movie (and probably before it), but it has legitimized a notion I see in the opening post which I'm now going to use as an excuse to grind my ax about The Breakfast Club.

Here's the thing, and people have touched on it-no one is different at the end of that movie. At best the different 'groups' of people only managed to be half way civil towards each other kinda towards the end.

It's not a stretch for the preppy chick to date the 'outlaw.' The nerd still does everyone's homework, the jock will be the jock and the spazz will be the spazz.

What they learned about each other wasn't their 'true' natures anymore than the 'one diminsional' natures was 'true.' In fact, it might have even been less true. They want to think that they're a nice person. They want to think that they're more complex than the image that they project. No one wants to be a caricature, a stereotype.

But at the end of the day, and beginning again next Monday, they'll still be the jock, the outlaw, the preppy, the nerd, and the spazz. Because that's really what they are. But in close quarters they want to believe that there is more to them, and while there is obviously more to everybody, you are still who you are.

It's not that they discovered that Judd Nelson wasn't an asshole, they just learned to be civil with an asshole for a few hours on a Saturday.

To translate that here-I believe that people do project elements onto other people, it happens in fleshworld, too. However, if you're an asshole (for example) you're probably an asshole and what we're going to learn about you (the general you, not a specific you) is that you're an asshole who's good to his dog.

But you're still an asshole.

There was this cat I knew once. We all gave him more than the benefit of the doubt because he was in a wheel chair and had some obvious developmental disabilities. So we tried to be nice to him. But he was really kind a of a jerk. He'd make creepy and unwanted advances to a store clerk who was too nice to tell him to fuck off (even though we told her that we can ban him from the store, she just has to say that's what she wants, but then she would hem and haw...).

Well, I end up at a bus stop with this dude and he starts to go on and on about three or four other instances where he's been banned or even had restraining orders placed on him and he's trying to tell me that people just don't understand. What I wanted, and should have said, was that the only common denominator in all of this is you and there might be something to that. Should have.

To explain the relevance of the first story with a second (third?)-when I started playwrighting the teacher would tell us that it's alright to lose some of your audience. That was going to happen. But if you're in a room with a smart, engaged audience, and you lose a lot of them, then it's your fault.

You can only be so misunderstood before it's you who doesn't understand.

Can't we just all post our MySpace accounts! http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

http://www.myspace.com/cra5h07

That guy! Gilmore Girls! You!?

A lot of things I've seen lately have had me thinking about our internet personas. Not how we project ourselves necessarily but how we're received.
[elaboration deleted]
Thoughts?
It's interesting, but I was thinking about the same sort of thing, but in terms of Type I and Type II statistical errors.

For instance, I could be a friendly person and believe that everyone else wants to be nice to me. This would maximize the number of friends that I make, but it would also have a dark side. The undesirable outcome is that the number of opportunities to betray me is also maximized.

Another person could be the opposite -- They could see the flaws in my first example and decide that they would treat everyone as a potential enemy until they prove themselves to be friendly. That minimizes the number of betrayers, but it also leaves this person nearly friendless.

I thought about that for a while, then I came to the realization ( and this is the part that actually ties into your post ) I came to the realization that there is a third possibility...

No one gives a damn about me one way or the other.

So, Joco, in terms of your request for thoughts, I don't think we really care about one another at all. We truly are just characters operating on what we see in front of us and that's it. And what we do is only for our self-interest. We want to be petty if that makes our day, and some days it does. Other days we want to be kind or instructive and coming across with that kind of voice is what floats our boat.

But we never do it for the others. We don't really give a damn and we're lying if we say differently.

Perhaps we should all use Gabbly more. I admit I have not been on it for sometime, but remember having a few good chats with some people a while ago. The immediacy of it can add a better element of realism to the people's personas there.

I can't use Gabbly.:(

To explain the relevance of the first story with a second (third?)-when I started playwrighting the teacher would tell us that it's alright to lose some of your audience. That was going to happen. But if you're in a room with a smart, engaged audience, and you lose a lot of them, then it's your fault.

You can only be so misunderstood before it's you who doesn't understand.

all im saying is that if you dont like the way someone dances, you dont dance with him. its stupid to complain afterwards about how much your feet hurt from being stepped on when you knew it was going to happen before you started.

But we never do it for the others. We don't really give a damn and we're lying if we say differently.

This I would say isn't true, and it's a lot of that, "I can be okay with being a dick if I just assure myself that everyone else is a dick, too."

It's disingenuous (see, I did it too...) to say that 'we don't give a damn' about others. That flies in the face of pretty much everything we know about how we wandered off the plain and built civilization. We're a social animal and that social-network is important to us. Clubs, 'scenes', MySpace, festivals, conventions, bars, stylish clothing, underarm deodorant, these things all exist because we do give a damn.

I may not want the life story of the clerk ringing up my burger or even know where that dude in the golden skin suit on the unicycle is going, but if I engage someone, even while working towards my self interest, it is in my self interest to give a damn about that person to some degree. It's hardwired in.

Very interesting idea. It certainly seems to make sense. Maybe it's a lack of socialisation...

Why does everything, even non-political issues, have to come to down your socialist ideology?

all im saying is that if you dont like the way someone dances, you dont dance with him. its stupid to complain afterwards about how much your feet hurt from being stepped on when you knew it was going to happen before you started.

I haven't been following your comments (sorry, I got tunnel vision with the mention of the Breakfast Club) so I don't know what you're responding to, exactly, I have to go back and figure out what you're talking about here.

Why does everything, even non-political issues, have to come to down your socialist ideology?

lol

you are so goofy!

you do know how bad it makes you look when you have to use layouts :p

I'm lazy, so?

Why does everything, even non-political issues, have to come to down your socialist ideology?

D'oh. I meant social interaction.

I haven't been following your comments (sorry, I got tunnel vision with the mention of the Breakfast Club) so I don't know what you're responding to, exactly, I have to go back and figure out what you're talking about here.

well i really wanted to comment on how nerdy it was to have to rant about a 20 year old movie but i decided i didnt mean it.

how about if i say

"you were enabling the creepy wheelchair guy" and leave it at that.

This I would say isn't true, and it's a lot of that, "I can be okay with being a dick if I just assure myself that everyone else is a dick, too."

It's disingenuous (see, I did it too...) to say that 'we don't give a damn' about others. That flies in the face of pretty much everything we know about how we wandered off the plain and built civilization. We're a social animal and that social-network is important to us. Clubs, 'scenes', MySpace, festivals, conventions, bars, stylish clothing, underarm deodorant, these things all exist because we do give a damn.

I may not want the life story of the clerk ringing up my burger or even know where that dude in the golden skin suit on the unicycle is going, but if I engage someone, even while working towards my self interest, it is in my self interest to give a damn about that person to some degree. It's hardwired in.
First of all, the "we don't give a damn" part is aimed at this forum alone. Clearly there are many people that do care about others. Away from this forum and using my friend example, the idea that no one gives a damn about me one way or the other is a good way to circumvent the Type I/II conundrum. Do I have friends and risk betrayal, or do I minimize those friendships in favor of security? If I realize that most people are far more interested in themselves than in me, I'm far more likely to enter into friendships without worrying about the faithfulness of that friend. That can work itself out in time. If you think about it a little, you'll see I'm right...

The most reliable assumption, in terms of the conduct of one's life, is to assume that generally people don't care about you one way or another. It's a mistake to assume everyone is a friend or everyone is an enemy, or people are out to help you, or people are out to hurt you.

Maybe this is obvious stuff. As I write it, I'm struck by how mundane it sounds. But when you think about how many of us really worry about how others perceive us, maybe it isn't as obvious...

well i really wanted to comment on how nerdy it was to have to rant about a 20 year old movie but i decided i didnt mean it.

how about if i say

"you were enabling the creepy wheelchair guy" and leave it at that.

Well, I was murmuring non-commitally most of the time. But we should have just booted the dude for being a creepy bastard, in that respect you're right.

EDIT 1&2: First, the depths of nerdiness I can get on almost any given movie is a depth no one should plum. I was already prone to doing it, then I went to college almost to specifically nerd out on any movie and cite sources while doing it. I could have learned a job skill, but I chose that instead.

The 2 was that I was at a bus stop so all I could do was murmur non-commitally...but we still should have banned him from the store.

I haven't been following your comments (sorry, I got tunnel vision with the mention of the Breakfast Club) so I don't know what you're responding to, exactly, I have to go back and figure out what you're talking about here.

Well, I was murmuring non-commitally most of the time. But we should have just booted the dude for being a creepy bastard, in that respect you're right.

unless you really want to talk about TBC...

it seems to me that you are commenting on it based on living in a post breakfast club world.

perhaps before TBC (and considering that it was aimed at teens) it was inconceivable to an audience that the stereotypical characters might have an inner life. granting humanity to a stereotype isnt common in highschool or in the movies.

yes they are all the same people in the end and will not talk to each other in the hallways come monday but at least they know that there is a PERSON inside the stereotype they are shunning and that they are hurting someone by doing it.

Well, I was murmuring non-commitally most of the time. But we should have just booted the dude for being a creepy bastard, in that respect you're right.

EDIT 1&2: First, the depths of nerdiness I can get on almost any given movie is a depth no one should plum. I was already prone to doing it, then I went to college almost to specifically nerd out on any movie and cite sources while doing it. I could have learned a job skill, but I chose that instead.

The 2 was that I was at a bus stop so all I could do was murmur non-commitally...but we still should have banned him from the store.

i decided to let it go because *I* can go into a rant on "terms of endearment" or the song "wind beneath my wings" (among others) at the drop of a hat.

but i try to restrain myself on a medium where my words persist.

well i really wanted to comment on how nerdy it was to have to rant about a 20 year old movie but i decided i didnt mean it.

how about if i say

"you were enabling the creepy wheelchair guy" and leave it at that.

Eh?

Snafturi, your sig. My God.

Eh?

many assholes are assholes because people let them get away with it.

if they had treated the creepywheelchair guy like a typical creepy guy they wouldnt have had to put up with his creepiness at all. he would either have shaped up so that he would be allowed into the store or he would have been banned.

to bring it to HERE, people whine about trolls but they never take responsibility for the threads where they engage the troll on his own terms. if they refused to debate a troll, he would either shape up and debate normally or he would go somewhere where he could get the response he craves.

First of all, the "we don't give a damn" part is aimed at this forum alone. Clearly there are many people that do care about others. Away from this forum and using my friend example, the idea that no one gives a damn about me one way or the other is a good way to circumvent the Type I/II conundrum. Do I have friends and risk betrayal, or do I minimize those friendships in favor of security? If I realize that most people are far more interested in themselves than in me, I'm far more likely to enter into friendships without worrying about the faithfulness of that friend. That can work itself out in time. If you think about it a little, you'll see I'm right...

The most reliable assumption, in terms of the conduct of one's life, is to assume that generally people don't care about you one way or another. It's a mistake to assume everyone is a friend or everyone is an enemy, or people are out to help you, or people are out to hurt you.

Maybe this is obvious stuff. As I write it, I'm struck by how mundane it sounds. But when you think about how many of us really worry about how others perceive us, maybe it isn't as obvious...

Maybe I'm in a story telling mood...

What others think does matter and does effect your day to day life.

I'm what I've called a 'scruffy.' Long hair, long goatee, a particular look. Once upon a time I cleaned all that up, styled my hair, wore fancy pants. It changed dramatically how people reacted to me and treated me. My brother went through the same experiment.

We both decided that we didn't like the people that were now okay with us and the people that liked us when we were scruffies where just cooler to be around. We start to regard our hair and beards as 'filters.' They filter out the annoying people who are bothered by it.

Even in my day to day, I want the waiter to like me so I get my food promptly and my water glass refilled. I want the people I work for to like me so that the job will go easy. Hell, I want to at least maintain the indifference of the people on the street just so they don't stop me.

Ultimately, your revelation that 'they're not all out to get you' should be more liberating than you've made it.

I don't go in for crowds, and I already talked about how I artificially limit the people who will interact with me, and even given that, I'm not looking for people to hate, I'm looking for people to like. I would argue that that is the baseline for more people than not. I don't need a Machiavellian construct to make me okay to be indifferent to them, I'm going to like them or not (or not have an opinion at all), but my preference is going to be like.

The ones who are looking for people to hate or disregard are the people we call 'dicks' or 'assholes,' depending on how aggressively they pursue it.

unless you really want to talk about TBC...

it seems to me that you are commenting on it based on living in a post breakfast club world.

perhaps before TBC (and considering that it was aimed at teens) it was inconceivable to an audience that the stereotypical characters might have an inner life. granting humanity to a stereotype isnt common in highschool or in the movies.

yes they are all the same people in the end and will not talk to each other in the hallways come monday but at least they know that there is a PERSON inside the stereotype they are shunning and that they are hurting someone by doing it.
Well, and this is sad, I was the character's age when that movie came out. And everything from other crappy teen movie to after school specials banged the drum that there was someone else behind that stereotype. It was hackneyed when it came out.

That's a lot harsher than it should be. I do really hate that movie. But even at the time I don't remember that message being new or changing the landscape of teen life at the time.

Except that preppies started going for outlaw lookin' dudes...which worked in my favor despite the fact that I was hardly a 'bad boy' or an 'outlaw.' I was like a pair of non-corrective glasses...

Snafturi, your sig. My God.

:D

many assholes are assholes because people let them get away with it.

if they had treated the creepywheelchair guy like a typical creepy guy they wouldnt have had to put up with his creepiness at all. he would either have shaped up so that he would be allowed into the store or he would have been banned.

to bring it to HERE, people whine about trolls but they never take responsibility for the threads where they engage the troll on his own terms. if they refused to debate a troll, he would either shape up and debate normally or he would go somewhere where he could get the response he craves.
Okay, that makes sense. Another problem with the trolls, is some people like having them around. As soon as the trolls leave, there's a "who's your favorite troll" or "what makes a good troll" thread.

many assholes are assholes because people let them get away with it.

if they had treated the creepywheelchair guy like a typical creepy guy they wouldnt have had to put up with his creepiness at all. he would either have shaped up so that he would be allowed into the store or he would have been banned.

to bring it to HERE, people whine about trolls but they never take responsibility for the threads where they engage the troll on his own terms. if they refused to debate a troll, he would either shape up and debate normally or he would go somewhere where he could get the response he craves.

I'm just going to form a long list of my posts for no good reason...apparently...

There is truth and for the here I'm constantly fascinated/frustrated by it. You know the dude is just fucking around to get a reaction, or just playing games with what you're saying for the sake of argument, why bother following that person down that rabbit hole? If you know the person is troll, or if the post is comically outrageous why bother? What are you hoping for? Even the people who say they like 'spanking trolls with logic,' Wha? They don't care, they're not spanked, you're doing what they came for. If someone's a jackass don't engage them, you're not going to get anything out of it. You just have to have some faith in the smarter people that they know he's an asshole, too, and leave it at that.

I don't get their fascination either, "I said something offensive or outrageous and people were offended or outraged." I wonder if they get the same giddy satisfaction when they turn a door knob and the door opens...

This forum is very dry. You can barely customize your "avatar" (which I´m considering as a way people view you visualy). You cant choose pics for yourself, you cant change your title, signatures usually arent visible.

Also, there is a lot of people here.

So, I dont see people here as individuals. I only see their ideas, and dont really care about their emotional reactions to what is writen or readed. And I dont expect others to care about my emotional reactions too.

There are forums for that, where everybare knows your name, you can use funny/interesting/personalized avatars, change your title, mess with your signature, and get all crazy. That is where I value the emotions of others, because I know who they are, and I know their personality.

But here? Just a bunch of words together. The two people I know the name of is Chandelier, because of all her deals, and Sandra West (or something like that), because she does an amazing blowjob (at least she says so).

A lot of things I've seen lately have had me thinking about our internet personas. Not how we project ourselves necessarily but how we're received.

You hit this stage of sorts on a forum where hundreds of people and they see something in us nearly right away. We're the clown or the brain or what have you and we're heard that way from then on. It's hard to imagine LG being particularly serious or to imagine TCT being particularly goofy.

I watched an interaction between Neo Arthais and Chandy yesterday and had I not known a little more about the voice of Chandy (I'm going to call voice everything that we can't hear or see about a person's comments), I would have reacted pretty similarly to NA. He was hearing her comments with a tone, a voice, that he'd created for her, not HER voice. A third party pointed it out to me and was quite angry with NA.

Then I got it. I hope. It's kind of like we're all characters from the breakfast club and because the forum is so, well, limited, we never get to know us as characters better than what we know of TBC characters in the first fifteen minutes. We think we know and we expect others to know, but we're operating and reacting to people based on a very limited knowledge of them. And it makes us angry, or hurts our feelings, or makes us bicker about stupid things, or inspires entire forums full of hate messages about some of us.

When I'm speaking I can't hear the person on the other side laughing or crying or see the shock or pain on their face from what I said, but more than likely they expect me to. And vice versa.

I have to admit I've resisted the idea that getting to know one another better was somehow a benefit to the things we do on this forum, but I've flipped on that point. When we get to know one another better we get closer to the true voice of the person, the proper context for our posts.

Thoughts?

Dooooon't you......Forget about meeeeeee.....

I constantly struggle not to put a false voice to the online speaker. I think we are compelled to do so because of our need to feel that we are operating in the same reality as someone else. I'm too stoned to explain that last sentence.

Don't you forget about me...Don't, don't, don't, don't... Don't you forget about me...

Don't you forget about me...Don't, don't, don't, don't... Don't you forget about me...

Look two posts above you.

Being a part of said interaction, and someone who's 'voice' you probably aren't familiar with, I'll say that your comments ring true.

It's all to easy to forget that people on the other end of this text link may have a fundamentally different view of things than you do, and I think some of the participants in the aforementioned debate have done so, and are therefore misinterpreting comments.

I'll also welcome a call for more somewhat social threads, where you can just chat with people.

Bring back Paradise Club!

There is no prohibition on the Paradise Club, and there is the NS Pub, too.
If you don't care for the contents -- well, that's another kettle of fish.

See, Jocabia? I told you it was a problem of perspective! Glad to see you're coming around. Now let's just hope she does.

I agree with him completely, even if I don't do this myself. As I try to see from all perspectives/sides of whatever is being discussed all the time, be it online, offline, or anywhere inbetween, I rarely try to make someone a character or assign them a personality in my head...I simply do my best to understand what they are saying and why they are saying it, rather than pretending to know they mean something completely different.

Well, and this is sad, I was the character's age when that movie came out. And everything from other crappy teen movie to after school specials banged the drum that there was someone else behind that stereotype. It was hackneyed when it came out.

That's a lot harsher than it should be. I do really hate that movie. But even at the time I don't remember that message being new or changing the landscape of teen life at the time.

Except that preppies started going for outlaw lookin' dudes...which worked in my favor despite the fact that I was hardly a 'bad boy' or an 'outlaw.' I was like a pair of non-corrective glasses...

its not harsh, it just ends the discussion.

see the problem?

I see older posters as individuals; Pure Metal, LG, Ruffy and the like. Perhaps they have developed a character over a sustained period of posting?

I must confess most posters seem to be fairly non-descript though.

Well, we have our ways of socializing anyway. There's always Gabbly, and a few of us are on offspring forums just for spamming and getting to know each other and having fun. Plus, the NS Meetups! I've met two NSers so far, and I am looking forward to meeting a few more at the end of August. :cool:
And the IRC, not forget the IRC! #nationstates_general on irc.esper.net

I see older posters as individuals; Pure Metal, LG, Ruffy and the like. Perhaps they have developed a character over a sustained period of posting?

I must confess most posters seem to be fairly non-descript though.

Who else is a person to you? Am I person to you? I'm honestly curious because we've had a lot of arguments that I wish we hadn't had, because you seem like a nice person...you're just seriously misguided about a large number of political issues.

Who else is a person to you? Am I person to you? I'm honestly curious because we've had a lot of arguments that I wish we hadn't had, because you seem like a nice person...you're just seriously misguided about a large number of political issues.

No, you're a big blue kipper....;)

I just put down the first few names to come to mind to be honest.

Misguided and nice I can deal with:)

No, you're a big blue kipper....;)

I just put down the first few names to come to mind to be honest.

Misguided and nice I can deal with:)

I will keep trying to change you for the better though...don't think I won't. I'll get through to you...someday.

The OP is spot on. I've been lurking the General forum for time immemorial and when I finally started posting, the realisation that the others (sometimes people I had in high esteem) don't know shit about me (hardly surprising) but are nevertheless quite ready to fill in the gaps with whatever makes me a better target was... painful. But I'm here to stay. I even made me a signature!
There is no better way to get to know each other than by posting your thoughts. Well, except perhaps meeting in RL, but many times I was sorely disappointed (on entirely different forum) seeing how the physical forms of my online friends distorted their so well known personalities. Some people just can't communicate properly when offline.

The OP is spot on. I've been lurking the General forum for time immemorial and when I finally started posting, the realisation that the others (sometimes people I had in high esteem) don't know shit about me (hardly surprising) but are nevertheless quite ready to fill in the gaps with whatever makes me a better target was... painful. But I'm here to stay. I even made me a signature!
There is no better way to get to know each other than by posting your thoughts. Well, except perhaps meeting in RL, but many times I was sorely disappointed (on entirely different forum) seeing how the physical forms of my online friends distorted their so well known personalities. Some people just can't communicate properly when offline.

well you better get that post count up so we will respect you if you truly intend to stay!

as to your sig, i sometimes like to leave points unmade so that the next guy can fill them in.

not that they do, but they could if they ever actually read my posts.

well you better get that post count up so we will respect you if you truly intend to stay!
Quantity has a quality all its own eh? I'd rather be respected for what I say, not how many times! :)
as to your sig, i sometimes like to leave points unmade so that the next guy can fill them in.
That's just a reminder. To me as well as to the people answering.
not that they do, but they could if they ever actually read my posts.
Hey, I just did! I even filled a hole.

Quantity has a quality all its own eh? I'd rather be respected for what I say, not how many times! :)

It's just for sample size, when we have a broader sampling of your thoughts when you say, "We should eat babies" we can differentiate between you being a Jonathan Swift fan or a monster...

Actually a large post count can work against you because the person might argue with your count instead of your argument, dismissing you from some past whatever. "That's the kind of claptrap I expect from you" or "Aren't you the one who..." (usually you're not, which makes the whole thing more angering.)

A well worded post by a person with a low count has sometimes a better chance of being seriously regarded.

Or some assmunch could butcher it. It is the internet.

Quantity has a quality all its own eh? I'd rather be respected for what I say, not how many times! :)

That's just a reminder. To me as well as to the people answering.

Hey, I just did! I even filled a hole.

yes but who can remember only 200 posts? we need at least 5000 posts containing bits of personal info before we can remember what part of the world you live in and what gender you are.

"not retarded just a little slow" should perhaps be the social motto of nsg

yes but who can remember only 200 posts? we need at least 5000 posts containing bits of personal info before we can remember what part of the world you live in and what gender you are.



And I don't even track posters I know and like, so you might have to say "I live under the sea in an Octopus' garden" seven or eight times before I actually see it. i don't read everything, I don't know if that's more common or if more people read every thread. I wouldn't be able to handle that...

yes but who can remember only 200 posts? we need at least 5000 posts containing bits of personal info before we can remember what part of the world you live in and what gender you are.
I'm doing about 100 posts per month, it will take me exactly four years to tell you that I'm a guy from Poland :D.

I'm doing about 100 posts per month, it will take me exactly four years to tell you that I'm a guy from Poland :D.

you need to mention that in every post you make!

you mean you have been playing this game faithfully for almost 3 years and have only recently started posting? do you love the game that much?

I think this theory is actually fairly accurate. I have assigned one-dimensional traits to a good number of posters who I only interact with by way of posting, such as "nice guy" and "fool" and "mean" and the like. Past that, I really don't have any perception of them.

you need to mention that in every post you make!
Awww come on, is it really so important? I mean, the fact that I love Monty Python's Flying Circus tells much more about me than the aforementioned circumstances beyond my control that happen to influence my life.
you mean you have been playing this game faithfully for almost 3 years and have only recently started posting? do you love the game that much?
THREE YEARS? It's been that long? :P
Well, it's fun to read what people think and NS provides a good selection of interesting individuals. So it became a habit of mine.

It's kind of like we're all characters from the breakfast club........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWXqCNaG634

Awww come on, is it really so important? I mean, the fact that I love Monty Python's Flying Circus tells much more about me than the aforementioned circumstances beyond my control that happen to influence my life.

THREE YEARS? It's been that long? :P
Well, it's fun to read what people think and NS provides a good selection of interesting individuals. So it became a habit of mine.

expecting us to remember monty python is out of the question.

how many people does your (ns) country have?

and have you been lurking all this time? why start posting now?

expecting us to remember monty python is out of the question.
Verily, it is absolutely unforgettable. That's what you wanted to say, I presume?
how many people does your (ns) country have?
5.946 billion. Why don't you click the link and see by yourself? We have a duck quartet waiting for every visiting VIP!
and have you been lurking all this time? why start posting now?
I have more free time and I have somewhat recovered from my previous online forum addiction.

@ the OP:

I think that's an interesting way of looking at online forums. We often take the tone of others during discussion, but that's simply part of being human. I notice that every time I find myself sipping coffee at the same time as a co-worker, simply because the brain is vulnerable to suggestion and is set up to show favorable attitudes toward others by mimicking their actions or style.

However, most of us, I think, take the most joy in presenting arguments or viewpoints and proceeding from that point with a sort of advocacy for it. So in some sense, we're all a bit like salesmen, which sort of limits how personally we want to get involved, after all. I'm on a first-name basis with my insurance agent, for example, but I don't attend his barbeques or his kids' weddings. Friendship doesn't develop because there's still a rep/client thing going on - similarly, if I start a thread on politics, or in favor of eggs, etc., I'm presenting a set of beliefs to be considered critically and perhaps rejected. You try to soften this by asking general questions and seeking opinions, but if you're *too* general and un-opinionated, you just get chaos. So there's a balance in place there, I think. :p

Verily, it is absolutely unforgettable. That's what you wanted to say, I presume?

5.946 billion. Why don't you click the link and see by yourself? We have a duck quartet waiting for every visiting VIP!

I have more free time and I have somewhat recovered from my previous online forum addiction.

hmmmmmm i have 8 billion. some days i vaguely wonder how that works.

most days i dont care. in my opinion the biggest flaw of the game is that i cant taylor the maximum number of citizens. id rather have an island nation of about 100,000.

Verily, it is absolutely unforgettable. That's what you wanted to say, I presume?


I think it's that being a fan of Python doesn't distinguish you much from everyone else. Now if you weren't a fan that might be a distinguishing factor, but as it is it's like saying "I have two arms." It's presumed true until you tell us it isn't...

Can't we just all post our MySpace accounts! http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

http://www.myspace.com/cra5h07

u look like a blond Jack Black

I think it's that being a fan of Python doesn't distinguish you much from everyone else.
See? It's simple! I'm like everyone else! :D
Except the duck.

See? It's simple! I'm like everyone else! :D
Except the duck.

huh?

Hm, I'm not exactly sure how I'm percieved here, or if at all.


Oh well, the earth keeps on a spinin' anways.:cool:

Can I be Molly Ringwald? cause Breakfast Club was about the last time she looked hot and I could get to fondle my boobies and everything.

About the OP - mayhaps someone could start a thread about what 'voice' each NS'er has when you read their posts. for example I think Ruffy writes with the voice of Bill Bailey and Nazz sounds like Anthony Head from Buffy.

all im saying is that if you dont like the way someone dances, you dont dance with him. its stupid to complain afterwards about how much your feet hurt from being stepped on when you knew it was going to happen before you started.

Then, there is not wanting to dance with someone who ignores your request and insists. Again. And again. And again.

Not all of the responsibility for that should be on the person who can't run away fast enough from the insistent dancer.

I had my 'breakthrough' a long time ago here on NSG, when I stopped seeing the other posters as just anonymous people I didn't have to give a shit about. Don't get me wrong...I still don't know a lot of the posters here very well, and some, I really don't give a shit about. They are some I don't want to know better, in any context.

But I HAVE gotten to know quite a few, fairly well, either just here on NS, or outside. And you know what? Just like REAL people, in REAL life...you find out that some people are sensitive to certain things, or not so much to other things. And just like in real life, I don't go out of my way to push things when I know someone is actually really vested in something, or upset by it.

So, you had people who know Chandy better, sticking up for her. Because they understand where she's coming from having interacted with her more. And you have me, sticking up for various, hated posters...because they are more than the sum of their posts here.

But then there are people you TRY to connect with...and you find out, once again, just like in real life...that you can't. Something isn't right, you can't see eye to eye. Oh well. That's just the way it goes. Nothing mathematical or scientific or logical about it. You click, or you don't.

Some people come here just to role play, or spam, or troll, or vent on strangers. Hell, maybe we do a bit of all of that once in a while. But others come here and are surprised to find that they've become a part of a community.

I agree...we need more socialising threads. The fact that many people are moving off site to do that is rather sad.

Wait...isn't this all what the jolt.co.uk spam forums are for?

Then, there is not wanting to dance with someone who ignores your request and insists. Again. And again. And again.

Not all of the responsibility for that should be on the person who can't run away fast enough from the insistent dancer.

I had my 'breakthrough' a long time ago here on NSG, when I stopped seeing the other posters as just anonymous people I didn't have to give a shit about. Don't get me wrong...I still don't know a lot of the posters here very well, and some, I really don't give a shit about. They are some I don't want to know better, in any context.

But I HAVE gotten to know quite a few, fairly well, either just here on NS, or outside. And you know what? Just like REAL people, in REAL life...you find out that some people are sensitive to certain things, or not so much to other things. And just like in real life, I don't go out of my way to push things when I know someone is actually really vested in something, or upset by it.

So, you had people who know Chandy better, sticking up for her. Because they understand where she's coming from having interacted with her more. And you have me, sticking up for various, hated posters...because they are more than the sum of their posts here.

But then there are people you TRY to connect with...and you find out, once again, just like in real life...that you can't. Something isn't right, you can't see eye to eye. Oh well. That's just the way it goes. Nothing mathematical or scientific or logical about it. You click, or you don't.

Some people come here just to role play, or spam, or troll, or vent on strangers. Hell, maybe we do a bit of all of that once in a while. But others come here and are surprised to find that they've become a part of a community.

I agree...we need more socialising threads. The fact that many people are moving off site to do that is rather sad.

you just won this thread

I hated the Breakfast Club for two reasons.

Don't ask what they were. I get Jocabia's point though.