NationStates Jolt Archive

Straight poll, two options. No tippytoeing, no ifs and no buts.

Well, one if and one but:

If you had to choose between a life with great financial and career success but total failure in your social life, or a great social life with no career prospects and poverty...what would you choose?

I came up with this question the other day as I was working at the pizza place. There is one guy there who is older than me but has no interest in getting a proper job or going back to uni. As far as I can see, he will never move up a career ladder (except at the pizza chain, I suppose) because he doesn't care. He's going to be 30 before he knows it and by then it will be too late.

On the other hand, the guy's got lots of friends, girlfriends (not that "lots" is necessarily a good thing, but I'm sure you understand what I mean), goes to parties, pubs and clubs and has all sorts of great experiences. He doesn't seem to have boring nights or even days because he's out doing stuff every minute of every day, spending all the money he earns at the pizza place on having fun (he still lives at home).

So I'm wondering how many people would think that's a superior choice to the way I'm apparently heading.

Money can't buy you everything but it can buy you a fast car, two girls and a bag of cocaine and that's good enough for me.

Alas not my line originally.

EDIT: To answer slightly seriously, the only good answer to this is to have lots of friends and little money - I've been there and good friends help you get through anything.

Straight poll, two options. No tippytoeing, no ifs and no buts.

Well, one if and one but:

If you had to choose between a life with great financial and career success but total failure in your social life, or a great social life with no career prospects and poverty...what would you choose?

I came up with this question the other day as I was working at the pizza place. There is one guy there who is older than me but has no interest in getting a proper job or going back to uni. As far as I can see, he will never move up a career ladder (except at the pizza chain, I suppose) because he doesn't care. He's going to be 30 before he knows it and by then it will be too late.

On the other hand, the guy's got lots of friends, girlfriends (not that "lots" is necessarily a good thing, but I'm sure you understand what I mean), goes to parties, pubs and clubs and has all sorts of great experiences. He doesn't seem to have boring nights or even days because he's out doing stuff every minute of every day, spending all the money he earns at the pizza place on having fun (he still lives at home).

So I'm wondering how many people would think that's a superior choice to the way I'm apparently heading.

Dude, that's his choice. You can choose to be jealous of him or lead your own life based on what you want to do. I don't know how this guy's getting any pussy if he lives at home. I did until I was 21, and it was the kiss of death -- I may as well have told a date that I was Jehova's Witness corpsefucker with a two-inch dick and random uncontrollable diarrhea.

Maybe the guy has stuff on the side you don't know about. Perhaps he plans to own the place. Perhaps he's got a kick-ass IRA he contributes to and keeps the McJob 'cause he digs the atmosphere. Regardless, it's his choice. Trust me, if he's still slingin' 'za at 30, his social life will tail off (no pun intended).

That said, perhaps he's a slow maturer. That's becoming more common. It doesn't mean that he's worthless. Our current president didn't get his shit together until he was 40. The obsession with "success" as defined by the accumulation of consumer goods is pretty pathetic, and certainly not the only path to happiness, if it's a path to happiness at all.

MY choice would be the career. I'd have money to travel, enlighten and educate myself. The friends would come once I'd pulled my head out of the consumerist sandpile. Besides, you make this choice a false dichotomy by insisting it's an either/or. Some stat I read somewhere led me to infer that many people change careers an average of 7 times over their working lifetime. So I guess my REAL choice is BOTH.

Straight poll, two options. No tippytoeing, no ifs and no buts.

Well, one if and one but:

If you had to choose between a life with great financial and career success but total failure in your social life, or a great social life with no career prospects and poverty...what would you choose?

I came up with this question the other day as I was working at the pizza place. There is one guy there who is older than me but has no interest in getting a proper job or going back to uni. As far as I can see, he will never move up a career ladder (except at the pizza chain, I suppose) because he doesn't care. He's going to be 30 before he knows it and by then it will be too late.

On the other hand, the guy's got lots of friends, girlfriends (not that "lots" is necessarily a good thing, but I'm sure you understand what I mean), goes to parties, pubs and clubs and has all sorts of great experiences. He doesn't seem to have boring nights or even days because he's out doing stuff every minute of every day, spending all the money he earns at the pizza place on having fun (he still lives at home).

Well, to be honest its not really an either or answer. Some people may be happy with lots of friends but no money, others may find more statisfaction in material wealth, but no friends. Persoanlly, I would rather work at low paying job that allowed me to hang out with my friends, than make myself miserable trying to get rich.

So I'm wondering how many people would think that's a superior choice to the way I'm apparently heading.

Well I'm not one to tell you how to live your life. Although if a life of friends and fun is appealing to you then perhaps you ought to reexamine your priorities.

So I'm wondering how many people would think that's a superior choice to the way I'm apparently heading.

*Raises hand*

If you don't have fun and friends, what're you planning on doing with the money anyway? It has no intrinsic value, its only use is to be spent.

I'm not sure I'm too fond of either choice, moderation being good in all things, but the second is mildly more appealing than the first. We weren't made to slave behind a desk. If we are lucky, we love our carreer, but few are so lucky. A hundred million dollars is not worth a life of lonliness and misery.

Easy choice. What good is money if you have no time to spend it and no one to enjoy it with?

I'd rather be a househusband than a lone businessman.

I'll be the lone businessperson. People are a PITA.

I'd rather split 1 beer with 5 friends then drink a bottle of champagne by my lonesome.

I believe if having to choose between the two I would say lots of friends. If you take a poll of people that have lots of money it usually is because of the personal contacts they have. One that makes millions in their life did it with the help of a lot of people around them. So if I were starting from 0 again I would go with the friends first and then if I am smart enough and with a little luck money will follow.

unless you have one of those uber-important jobs (the kind where if you don't go to work people die) then working is pretty much pointless, it's something you do because you need the $$.

I don't think anyone wants to live without any money opportunities, because well, you would starve to death if you didn't die from exposure first. (probably you would die of dehydration before the other two, but that's a different thread)

The real question you are asking I think, is whether you would put your social life above your career, and my answer can't really be either/or.

I neglect my social life when I have to work a lot (like between January 1st and April 15th) but then I neglect my work sometimes when I am feeling particularly social.....like in August.

All things being equal though, I would rather have my relationship with my husband than to have a career.

Straight poll, two options. No tippytoeing, no ifs and no buts.

Well, one if and one but:

If you had to choose between a life with great financial and career success but total failure in your social life, or a great social life with no career prospects and poverty...what would you choose?
If you really mean POVERTY in your example, then that's a no-brainer: I'd choose to avoid poverty even at the expense of having friends. Real poverty sucks beyond my ability to describe it.

But if you mean "poverty" like the "poverty" of living as a grad student, then I'd take friends + poverty.

If you really mean POVERTY in your example, then that's a no-brainer: I'd choose to avoid poverty even at the expense of having friends. Real poverty sucks beyond my ability to describe it.

But if you mean "poverty" like the "poverty" of living as a grad student, then I'd take friends + poverty.

yeah. What kind of poverty are we talking? Like me and hubby living on Ramen and no cable? or like I grew up with no water and no heat?

Wow, nice 50 - 50...

I don't intend to do a job I don't like, like desk jobs. So if I could get a great career record, and make lots of money, I would be probably be happy at my job... Loss of a social life would be disappointing though...

With a good career, I have the chance of doing something that may make an impact on the world, like attempting to run a private space elevator... =) (I've dreamed of that sometimes...)

Lack of a career but a social life to compensate wouldn't be so hard either... I've never been that popular before so I dunno what its like... but it comes to me that perhaps human relations just won't cut it when it comes to doing something useful. Sure, you can help lots of people like aid workers do; you can be a joy to your friends. That's nice, its not enough for me...

Its like a party. You have a good time at it, but when you get home, things are still the same...

Its a close run thing though...

This is a subjective matter - it depends on what one prefers most. Personally, I'd rather have the career. I'd react differently if the option was between a boyfriend and a career.

With a good career, I have the chance of doing something that may make an impact on the world, like attempting to run a private space elevator... =) (I've dreamed of that sometimes...)

Careers don't work like that, though; they're propaganda, a way of tricking you into thinking that wasting your life doing a pointless, thankless job forty hours a week is somehow rewarding, or a way of bettering yourself, or meaning you're going to "make it big" in the future.

It's really just time consuming gambling and a way of persuading you that you go to work for more than the money you need to pay the bills.

Both extremes are bad. Me, I've got a sweet plum of a job at the moment, and good connections, so I'm doing well careerwise, despite knowing absolutely no one in my personal life. Lots of acquaintances, tons of co-workers and associates, but no real "friends." Works for me, though. It's a stress-free life.

Whether I could be solitary *forever* I have my doubts. :p

I'd rather split 1 beer with 5 friends then drink a bottle of champagne by my lonesome.

That's a fun way to put it. :p

success is the dawn of night mwahahaha

Careers don't work like that, though; they're propaganda, a way of tricking you into thinking that wasting your life doing a pointless, thankless job forty hours a week is somehow rewarding, or a way of bettering yourself, or meaning you're going to "make it big" in the future.

It's really just time consuming gambling and a way of persuading you that you go to work for more than the money you need to pay the bills.

Precisely, I don't intend to do that... pointless, thankless job? I'll quit...

Or actually, I'll find a better one, then quit.

Precisely, I don't intend to do that... pointless, thankless job? I'll quit...

Or actually, I'll find a better one, then quit.

That's always prudent, I've found. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, after all. :)

This is a subjective matter - it depends on what one prefers most. Personally, I'd rather have the career. I'd react differently if the option was between a boyfriend and a career.

...

That's why its a close run for me...

Careers don't work like that, though; they're propaganda, a way of tricking you into thinking that wasting your life doing a pointless, thankless job forty hours a week is somehow rewarding, or a way of bettering yourself, or meaning you're going to "make it big" in the future.

It's really just time consuming gambling and a way of persuading you that you go to work for more than the money you need to pay the bills.

Eh. Some careers make people happy, earn them enough money to pursue hobbies on the weekends, give their kids opportunities, etc. Careers can be rewarding, I think, especially if you work in a fun environment where you're of some help to others. :)

Well you can always borrow money off friends.

Eh. Some careers make people happy, earn them enough money to pursue hobbies on the weekends, give their kids opportunities, etc. Careers can be rewarding, I think, especially if you work in a fun environment where you're of some help to others. :)

That would be nice, though I would like it more if I could find a career that involved a hobby...

Easy choice. What good is money if you have no time to spend it and no one to enjoy it with?

I'd rather be a househusband than a lone businessman.

Money gets you women. You dont need to be smart, pretty, funny or anything else if you have money.

And you can do things with women that you cant do with your friends.

So, in my opinion, carreer comes first, but only if its something you like, you believe in or will help you get something you want (like women).

Friends are overrated. Even through the hapiest people I´ve met had tons of friends. Well, again, happiness is overrated.

Well, again, happiness is overrated.

But... What else is there?

The sort of success that matters is the kind where you get away with it.

Neither, you're successful if you're happy. What makes you happy is entirely up to you.

hmmm, I have no interest in "planning my life" or pursuing a career as the definition for my identity and existence. I want to be a signed rock musician, a cult following to live on nicely would be fine by me, mega platinum album sales would be nice too though. But thats all I want to do with my life. So success is doing what you want to do and being content with what your existence. Success for me isnt divisible to having wads of cash or whatever else is socially prescribed.

Careers don't work like that, though; they're propaganda, a way of tricking you into thinking that wasting your life doing a pointless, thankless job forty hours a week is somehow rewarding, or a way of bettering yourself, or meaning you're going to "make it big" in the future.

It's really just time consuming gambling and a way of persuading you that you go to work for more than the money you need to pay the bills.

Yeah, most "careers" means youre helping the factory run smoothly and managing to make its owner more rich, and able to produce even more products that will be bought by people who are helping factories run themselves.

Basicaly, after the factories, they and machinery do most of the work and we mainly work to make them more effective, which makes their owners more rich.

i lost all my friends due to social axiety and depression. well, i say i blame those things, but it really comes down to me being to blame.

so i currently have no friends other than my lovely girlfriend and my parents. and i'm ok. some days i wish i still had friends, but most days i just don't care and remember all the bad times and bad feelings with friends in the last few years. when i meet up with old friends these days its just disappointing and i don't feel i'll ever get back to how comfortable i felt with friends back when i was a teenager before the depression/social phobia.

so i voted for career. i'd rather have money and be able to live the way i want. i don't really give two shits about the job (apart from this one i got now, but only cos its a family business and i care about my family), just the money.

that said i can't really think about the future too much without just spiralling into a sea of despair, and am just no good at planning my future. so i want career but probably am unable to pursue one, especially if in competition with a confident person who's "got it all planned out"....


basically, i don't really care about either.

i lost all my friends due to social axiety and depression. well, i say i blame those things, but it really comes down to me being to blame.

so i currently have no friends other than my lovely girlfriend and my parents. and i'm ok. some days i wish i still had friends, but most days i just don't care and remember all the bad times and bad feelings with friends in the last few years. when i meet up with old friends these days its just disappointing and i don't feel i'll ever get back to how comfortable i felt with friends back when i was a teenager before the depression/social phobia.

so i voted for career.


At least you're comfortable with yourself.:(

I'd choose friends any day of the week. Ultimately, nothing the majority of us ever accomplish will endure more than a century or so; I would rather enjoy a life of laughs, friendship and social memories than a life of offices, coffee breaks and gauging one's success by the model of Mercedes one drives.

The poll sucks. I've got both friends and a career.

Well, living in the UK, poverty isn't going to be much of a worry, so definitely friends and no money.

I've always thought that. Just like I'd rather do a job that I loved but paid badly than a job I didn't like but paid brilliantly.

At least you're comfortable with yourself.:(


well what i said was largely something i just tell myself to make it seem ok, if i'm truly honest. i did used to care a lot, but as time goes on with no friends i guess i am just getting used to it, even though it does still get to me a bit now and then.

god i sound pathetic :p

But... What else is there?

Pleasure
Power
Achievements
Women
Money
Fame
Purpose
Vocation

Plenty of options.

Pleasure
Power
Achievements
Women
Money
Fame
Purpose
Vocation

Plenty of options.
Surely they make you happy, though, or you wouldn't bother?

Surely they make you happy, though, or you wouldn't bother?

Not always.

In my opinion, the key to happiness is simplicity, and people. You can be pretty damn poor, but if you have a good family, good friends and a good wife/husband, you can be pretty damn happy (I´ve met plenty of people like this here in Brazil).

Now, if you want to become richer, you will have to strugle. And that means you wont be happy (at least for a while). If you want power, you will have to struggle too.

Also, just look at our current society. We acquire a lot of stress due to our jobs and responsabilities only to make ourselves look richer, better or more powerfull than others. Insteat, we could just be as happy if we didnt had as many responsabilities. But humans are social animals, and the way others look at us is very important, at least to most. And that usually means we struggle, work a lot just to "fit" inside the society, even through we could be much happier otherwise.

Of course, most people dont have choices. One of the things that REALLY scare me is people that dont read, travel or learn. Their sole way of ataining information and to understand reality is through their own lives and television. And in our current society, what most people learn is that you´re suposed to get money, and if you dont have money, you´se useless/a loser. That is far from being the universal truth, and reality is far more complex and interesting than that. And you can learn that if you are wise or cultured enough. But most people only have the knowledge they got from living, and some people are so ignorant they arent even willing to learn from others.

Yet, at the same time, if you are aware of the world and want to achieve something inside it, strugling for fame, power, wealth or knowledge as a life goal is pretty damn impressive, even through these people could be happier otherwise (or not at all).

I've had this question asked of me before.

Now, I'm a bit of a pessimist. I assume everything will eventually stop working. So I asked myself, when the shit hits the fan, what do you need?

A big wad of cash, or someone to watch your back?

Now, I've never really had a big wad of cash to get me out of my problems, so I can't really compare which of the two is better, but I can say this:

That friend watching me back has always helped me out. I trust them more than I trust whatever or whoever I can buy with that wad of cash.

You're working at the same pizza joint, right? and you don't have friends , girlfriends, socializing etc buzzing around you?
One friend of mine was for a long time an underachieving 30-ish-year-old bookstore clerk and college dropout, but didn't have many friends of any sort.

obviously it has nothing to do with career trajectroy. that is, not at this stage. People who work so much that they never see anybody may be a different story, but there's plenty of space in between.

As for me, as long as I'm fairly comfortable (a warm dry place to hang out, a place to cook, enough healthy food, some extra money for books and shows) I'd choose friends. Money and material luxuries don't make people happier on average. Spending my life boosting GDP for no good reason isn't appealing. Hopefully I will end up doing something productive and sustainable with my life - whether that leads to traditional "career advancement" or not I have no idea and I don't know that I especially care.

Money gets you women. You dont need to be smart, pretty, funny or anything else if you have money.

And you can do things with women that you cant do with your friends.

I don't think I'd want any women that was bought with money.

I'd rather split 1 beer with 5 friends then drink a bottle of champagne by my lonesome.

Amen

wow... both are better than my current situation! :eek:

I'd rather split 1 beer with 5 friends then drink a bottle of champagne by my lonesome.

but what if that 'beer' was Zima?

He's going to be 30 before he knows it and by then it will be too late.


I beg your pardon?
but what if that 'beer' was Zima?
You wouldn't do that to people you call friends...

You wouldn't do that to people you call friends...

Considering my taste in brews? :p

my friend did home brewing. all the solid beer drinkers loved his successes... all of us non-beer drinkers loved his failures. it was helarious... and we all were friends. ;)

The 30 comment is that this guy will be living his life of social acceptance and career bliss until it is too late (when his friends have moved onto full-time jobs from important part-time jobs)...I think the rest says itself.

The 30 comment is that this guy will be living his life of social acceptance and career bliss until it is too late (when his friends have moved onto full-time jobs from important part-time jobs)...I think the rest says itself.

Still doesn't hold up.

Given how the options are defined, no ifs ands or buts, I would have to go with poverty. NO friends is too few and almost unimaginable over a life time. Few friends is more reasonable and an acceptable bargain. I mean, I like importance and status, but I would have to have something I can call friend at the end of it all.

You're working at the same pizza joint, right? and you don't have friends , girlfriends, socializing etc buzzing around you?
Well, I do, but nothing like the close friends I had in school. And it looks as though my path will take me to investment banking or something of the sort, and those are 70-80 hour weeks. Not much time for social life beyond with the people you work with.

I beg your pardon?
Old people are useless.

*nods*

:p

If you had to choose between a life with great financial and career success but total failure in your social life, or a great social life with no career prospects and poverty...what would you choose?

This is a no brainer for me, because I've been there and done that. In 1969 I was working as a salesman and taking home about $360.00 a week which was damn good money back then. I was working my ass off, getting frustrated at work, and had only one thing on my mind...money. I finally had a physical breakdown (lots of stomach trouble) and ended up quiting my job. I didn't know it at the time, but my wife was ready to take our son and leave me before I quit.

I ended up going back in the military and took a pay cut of $ 240.00 a week. It was worth it. I became a human being again instead of a money grubbing, workaholic son of a bitch.

Folks, there are things in life that are much more important than money.

He's going to be 30 before he knows it and by then it will be too late.

Consider my 30+ year old eyebrow raised quizzically, pup.

I may as well have told a date that I was Jehova's Witness corpsefucker with a two-inch dick and random uncontrollable diarrhea.

Wow. Thanks. I just got spit all over my keyboard. Again, thanks. I'm being serious here, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. :D

As for the rest of your post, I'm in agreement. And once again, you people need to stop pulling the words right out of my mouth... Or fingers, as I was going to post almost exactly what you did. A bit different it would've been, sure, but it was the same basic thing regardless.

You people make me sick.

Consider my 30+ year old eyebrow raised quizzically, pup.

Mine as well...and "pup" is too kind for insolence like that. I prefer "whelp".

Wow. Thanks. I just got spit all over my keyboard. Again, thanks. I'm being serious here, that's the funniest thing I've heard all week. :D

As for the rest of your post, I'm in agreement. And once again, you people need to stop pulling the words right out of my mouth... Or fingers, as I was going to post almost exactly what you did. A bit different it would've been, sure, but it was the same basic thing regardless.

You people make me sick.

Thank you kindly! I was beginning to think I'd lost my touch...nobody else replied to either that dark poetry or the opinion. I think it's the current administration and all the neocon talk radio in Bismarck that makes me hate false dichotomies so much.

Sorry about your keyboard...:D

niether! the kind of world we all have to live in.

=^^=
.../\...

The poll sucks.

Still doesn't hold up.

Of course it does.

When youre 30, most people already are married or have kids. If you are living on a part job, you have a real hard time keeping a family and kids. And if you DO get married or get a kid, you will spend most of your time maintaining it and wont be able to grow professionaly.

Which means you would be too old to get into a career, already has tons of responsabilities and wouldnt have money to study.

I don't think I'd want any women that was bought with money.

Then you´re too young or too naive.

Anyway, you dont buy women, you buy pussy.

Then you´re too young or too naive.
Can you say "false dilemma"?

I may as well have told a date that I was Jehova's Witness corpsefucker with a two-inch dick and random uncontrollable diarrhea.
:eek: Hell of a thing to read first thing in the morning. Thank you for giving me something to smile about.

Old people are useless.

*nods*

:p

Hey I resemble that remark.

*steals young kid's cookies* :eek:

Of course it does.

When youre 30, most people already are married or have kids. If you are living on a part job, you have a real hard time keeping a family and kids. And if you DO get married or get a kid, you will spend most of your time maintaining it and wont be able to grow professionaly.

Which means you would be too old to get into a career, already has tons of responsabilities and wouldnt have money to study.

How old are you? I ask because very few people who are 30 or older would agree with you. You make far too many baseless assumptions in this post. I know plenty of people with thriving careers and thriving families. It takes planning and flexibility, but it is far from impossible.

When youre 30, most people already are married or have kids. If you are living on a part job, you have a real hard time keeping a family and kids. And if you DO get married or get a kid, you will spend most of your time maintaining it and wont be able to grow professionaly.

Which means you would be too old to get into a career, already has tons of responsabilities and wouldnt have money to study.

30 compared to what? 26 as the average age for getting married in the USA?

Four years is a blip, nothing more, nothing less, or do you really consider the 30+ side of the bell curve to be one step away from the nursing home.

30 compared to what? 26 as the average age for getting married in the USA?

Four years is a blip, nothing more, nothing less, or do you really consider the 30+ side of the bell curve to be one step away from the nursing home.

Very true. For men in the U.S. at least, the average age at first marriage is 27 years and climbing - being married at 30 or even 40 isn't anything unusual. Given the divorce rate, it might be better to hold off until you're financially stable and have your education completed anyway, I think. :)

Very true. For men in the U.S. at least, the average age at first marriage is 27 years and climbing - being married at 30 or even 40 isn't anything unusual. Given the divorce rate, it might be better to hold off until you're financially stable and have your education completed anyway, I think. :)

You probably won't be financially stable until you are in your 50's and the kids are grown and gone.
It took me 10 years to complete my BA on a part time basis, what with working a full time job and a family with two kids education was kind of a lower priority. Working a part time job to keep up with the bills was a bit higher than that. I didn't complete my MS until I was 56 years old but managed to get that done on a 3/4 time basis as my kids were grown and gone.

I got married at age 25, and have been married to the same woman for 39 years.

My point is, if you wait until you are financially stable and have completed your education to do anything you will be waiting for the rest of your life.

A SIDE NOTE: You should never consider your education COMPLETE. If you don't learn something new every day you are not living.

You probably won't be financially stable until you are in your 50's and the kids are grown and gone.
It took me 10 years to complete my BA on a part time basis, what with working a full time job and a family with two kids education was kind of a lower priority. Working a part time job to keep up with the bills was a bit higher than that. I didn't complete my MS until I was 56 years old but managed to get that done on a 3/4 time basis as my kids were grown and gone.

I got married at age 25, and have been married to the same woman for 39 years.

My point is, if you wait until you are financially stable and have completed your education to do anything you will be waiting for the rest of your life.

Eh. I'll be pretty stable financially before I'm out of my twenties, and I'm no whiz with finance. :p Maybe if I'd taken out some insane loan or had a pile of creditcard debt or kids at age 20 it would have been another story, I guess. Anyway, few people are ever *completely* stable financially, I'm sure - what I meant was stable enough to marry without risking collapse for financial reasons. Debt seems to be a marriage-killer from what I've seen.

A SIDE NOTE: You should never consider your education COMPLETE. If you don't learn something new every day you are not living.

Yeah, I figured someone would say that when I typed it. ;)