NationStates Jolt Archive

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

It's not original; many people have said this before me, and hopefully they will persist in informing the American people of the mortal peril of dissent.

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

You are on ignore. End of. I have had enough of your criminal stupidity and your willingness to follow George Bush off a bridge. Don't bother to respond because I won't be able to hear it.

*pulls in deckchair and grabs popcorn*

Another FAG original. They're absolute classics.

sorry, youll have to find someone else to suck george bush's dick. im not interested.

the government is here to serve the people, we are not here to serve the government.

when they do what is in our best interest, ill support them

If the US were to become a nation that punishes dissent it would cease to be a country worth defending.

http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Here's where FAG starts calling for Ben Franklin and Teddy Roosevelt to be reclassified in history as Vile Liberal Traitors.

*Starts setting up a barbeque grill*

I put him on ignore. You guys probably should too.

It's not original

This is true, this is what...the..4th name that you've used here on the forums for this shit?

I agree gimmie back my country, filthy colonist!

sorry, youll have to find someone else to suck george bush's dick. im not interested.

While I am partial to many of Bush's policies, my post was completely apolitical. Its content would have been the same had Nader been managing the war. The point is that dissent in war-time is unpatriotic, not that blind party allegiance is necessary.

It's not original; many people have said this before me, and hopefully they will persist in informing the American people of the mortal peril of dissent.

Actually that is true. I have heard this argument many times before. Although I don't like it when the troops suffer due to government actions I feel it necessary for a nation to be critical of their government. If people weren't critical do you really believe the government would not act on this and take more power therefore taking the one thing you value most? Your freedom.

A government is kept in check by the people it governs.

You need to either take more meds or fewer. I'm not sure which, but you're clearly in need some adjustment of your drugs. It might be nice for you to actually think for a change, instead of parroting a whole bunch of right wing drivel.

A government is kept in check by the people it governs.

And the people have the right to express their opinions via elections. However, their dissatisfaction should not manifest itself as open dissent against the administration's policies during a time of war -- such a regrettable eventuality would needlessly cause suffering among the troops. Sabotaging our war effort and indirectly killing American soldiers is not a proper way to keep a government in check.

While I am partial to many of Bush's policies, my post was completely apolitical. Its content would have been the same had Nader been managing the war. The point is that dissent in war-time is unpatriotic, not that blind party allegiance is necessary.

and my answer would be the same no matter who was president

well except for hillary clinton.

if the president isnt doing what is best for the country, he (or she) doesnt deserve my support.

if the president isnt doing what is best for the country, he (or she) doesnt deserve my support.

No, but the troops do. Don't hurt them because of a personal vendetta with their commander-in-chief.

"Patriotism is not blind acceptance of ones country, but the courage to call it to a higher standard."

That quote aside, it seems like what you want to do is execute everyone who disagrees with the war as a traitor. Great idea, now you've just violated one of America’s key ideals, Free Speech, the right to say what I want. Oh, in addition you've also just brought 1984 to life. Disagreeing with anything done by the gov’t is a crime, and rats will chew on your face for it. Nice job big bro.

I can't disagree with a war because it'll cause the troops to become disheartened and get more of them killed? If that’s the case, then someone fucked up their training a bit, and besides, wouldn't a mass public outcry leading to the withdrawal of troops save even more lives? You can't kill them if they're not there after all.

To paraphrase FreedomAndGlory... CONFORM AND OBEY!

If the US were to become a nation that punishes dissent it would cease to be a country worth defending.

http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

We've only made it to the 6th post and yet, I do believe we have a winner...

To paraphrase FreedomAndGlory... CONFORM AND OBEY!

Sigged.

I am not going to claim support or hate for bush.

What I will say is that there is a little thing that I like to call free speech. And the day that a population decides to stay silent, or is held in silence by fear is the day that democracy dies. It will be the day that everything our soldiers give their lives for is lost. It is when people like Hittler, and Hussien take power.

Government are accountable to the people that they govern, it those people have the right to express their opinion right or wrong. This is what we believe in, nothing else.

No, but the troops do. Don't hurt them because of a personal vendetta with their commander-in-chief.

according to my calculations, if we have no troops in iraq, no (us) troops will die in iraq.

To paraphrase FreedomAndGlory... CONFORM AND OBEY!

http://www.markpilbs3dgraphics.net/TV-Dalek.jpg

O-BEY!! O-BEY!! O-BEY!!

Sigged.

Ditto, but I have to do it after work... :(

Izz a good sig line, though.

*ears perk up, sees reactionary jingoistic claptrap*

Battle!!!!!!!!

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

You're sounding uncannily like Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin...

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

I'm wondering how the hell exercising free speech violates the law of conservation of mass/energy, and creates more bullets and bombs then would be fired otherwise.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

"Pessimistic outlooks"? "Bleak prognoses"? "Biased reports"? So apparently, if something goes wrong, we as the American people are supposed to just bend over, let the government and private military contractors bugger us until their satisfied, and then, when that's all done, we're supposed to ignore the clusterfuck our silence helped create.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

The "notion that they are fighting in vain?" What could be more vain than dying on the battlefield to allow the Project for a New American Centuries neo-colonialist jingoism to crystalize into into an American empire, complete with all the no bid contracts Lockheed Martin and Halliburton can ever want, non existent WMDs, and the general murder of 600,000 Iraqi civilians. So, when we as Americans find fault for the government sending out fellow Americans to die for in the name fo greed, somehow we become traitors?

What next? Are you going to line us up against a wall and shoot us? Is that what you'd have?

If this is defined as treason, then I will proudly call myself a traitor.

dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

I'd hate to break it to you, but Iraq is ruined preciesly becasue of America's military interventions. Naturally, now the Iraqis hate us for it. That's okay, we're supposed to be dull, obedient sheep while Bush plays Risk with real people.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

Of course, marching in uninvited into a foreign land with high tech weapons, bombing the people back to the middle ages, forcibly selling off Iraqi resources to US corporations and generally fucking up everyone's lives over there has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

Oscar Wilde once said that patiotism "is the virtue of the vicous." I'd like to give you a standing ovation for proving him right.

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill.

Really? I might just walk (figuratively) right up to you and criticize the way you write your posts, or insult your views on various things. Would you just fall over and die? Or do you need to say specific words? If you do, I'd like a list of them, please.

It's not original; many people have said this before me, and hopefully they will persist in informing the American people of the mortal peril of dissent.

In 1775 a certain colony engaged in a great deal of dissent during which a proportion of that colony calling themselves 'Patriots' took and held a large portion of that colony. Without that traitorous dissent of 1775 woul you be able to call yourself American today?

So, FnG, do you really believe this? I hope you didn't take all the time you did to write all of that out.

So... are you ready to call Martin Luther King Jr. a traitor? How about Geoge Washington or John Hancock? Or maybe even Thomas Jefferson?

If you are, read the portion of your history book that follows "American Independence." See, I do believe that we are a country founded on the principle of dissent to begin with.

I agree gimmie back my country, filthy colonist!

You win the thread!

according to my calculations, if we have no troops in iraq, no (us) troops will die in iraq.

Will the troops be withdrawn if you speak out? No. If you wish to show your support for such a plan, do it through a discreet and effective means: write a message to your elected representatives. Simply speaking out achieves nothing but the general disheartening of our troops.

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. I agree. Dissent is treason.

Your treasonous founding fathers, the terrorists they were, should all have been hung.

http://marc-blog.kataplop.net/images/divers/1984-Big-Brother-Poster.jpg
WAR IS PEACE!
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY!
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!

So, FnG, do you really believe this? I hope you didn't take all the time you did to write all of that out.

So... are you ready to call Martin Luther King Jr. a traitor? How about Geoge Washington or John Hancock? Or maybe even Thomas Jefferson?

If you are, read the portion of your history book that follows "American Independence." See, I do believe that we are a country founded on the principle of dissent to begin with.

Probably, what with it being the name of the continent and all...

If we are to believe what George W. Bush says about terrorists wanting to destroy us because "they hate our freedoms", then the following logic applies:

If we want to win the "war on terror", then removing freedoms is precisely the wrong thing to do. If we destroy our freedoms and liberties ourselves in the name of "fighting terrorism", then we are doing the terrorist's job for them and hence losing the "war on terror" by a massive exercise in scoring an own goal.

But then again, terrorists don't really want to kill us because "they hate freedom". That's a far too simplistic (and plain wrong) reason. The real reasons are far more complicated, and have a lot to do with perceived injustices in the world, most of which can be traced back to the failures of American or British foreign policies. Such as the policy of "support and fund Israel no matter what happens". I'm not personally against such a policy - I'm just pointing out that it does have some very nasty consequences (such as the entire Arab world hating our guts).

Terrorism is practiced by those who think they can't get their point across any other way. The way to respond to it is to consider the grievances of the terrorists so that they don't have to resort to violence to make themselves heard. I'm not advocating co-operation with terrorists, I'm just saying that if we were a bit more co-operative and our policies were better thought out (and less of a shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later style) then people wouldn't need to resort to terrorism. Of course there will always be some people who are completely nuts and can't be reasoned with (such as the Op of this thread) but there's not much you can do about that.

In the meantime, we should stop considering our fight against terrorism to be a "war" - because that's a bad analogy. We won't solve it with tanks and jet fighters. We will solve it with good intelligence and solid police work. Fighting terrorism in reality is much like fighting crime - where success is always relative and victory is never final. Removing civil liberties or banning dissent is not the answer.

I do so want to just dismiss this off hand as trollish nonsense. But I already come off as a 12 year old, so a little maturity wouldn't hurt.

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."
is·sent (d-snt)
intr.v. dis·sent·ed, dis·sent·ing, dis·sents
1. To differ in opinion or feeling; disagree.
2. To withhold assent or approval.
n.
1. Difference of opinion or feeling; disagreement.
2. The refusal to conform to the authority or doctrine of an established church; nonconformity.
3. Law A justice's refusal to concur with the opinion of a majority, as on a higher court. Also called dissenting opinion.

To disagree with the Glorious Government of these United States is treasonous. The Thought Police will execute on sight anyone who dares to disagree with our Lord and God, His Highness George Walker Bush the Second.

Are you actually reading what you type? Rebelling against a tyrannical government may not be patriotic, but it is right.
Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.
Prove it. Prove that speaking out against the war has lead to the death of US soldiers. If you can.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.
America is sabotaging itself by abandoning it's principles and sacrificing it's freedoms on the altar of.....who knows? What is the war all about this week?

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.
If you don't want your soldiers to lose morale because they're fighting a pointless war then don't send them to fight a pointless war. Simple. No need to restrict the freedom of speech or the freedom of the press.
But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.
Heroically carry out their noble duty to invade a sovereign country for reasons still unknown to them or the public. If that's their duty then I can't claim to care if speaking against them upsets them.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.
Yes. Never question the government. Give them carte blanche to ignore your rights. Smile and nod when they invade other nations. Turn over and bite the pillow, because they're going in dry.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

If kowtowing to the government while they strip away your rights is traitorous then America needs more traitors.

I shouldn't have wasted my time, this is trollish nonsense.

...during a time of war...

If this is a time of war, why did Congress not actually declare war on/in Iraq? You can't have a time of war without an actually, you know, declaration of war.

Will the troops be withdrawn if you speak out? No. If you wish to show your support for such a plan, do it through a discreet and effective means: write a message to your elected representatives. Simply speaking out achieves nothing but the general disheartening of our troops.

will the troops be withdrawn if i speak out?

yes.

If this is a time of war, why did Congress not actually declare war on/in Iraq? You can't have a time of war without an actually, you know, declaration of war.

/thread

3 pages in the time it takes me to respond to one post. Man I'm off today.

Quiet, troll

If this is a time of war, why did Congress not actually declare war on/in Iraq? You can't have a time of war without an actually, you know, declaration of war.

Not to implicitly agree with F 'n' G, but I thought they did declare war on Iraq?

will the troops be withdrawn if i speak out?

yes.

I have some harsh news to break to you. Actually, you might want to sit down for this. Are you sitting? Good, here it comes.

American policy does not revolve around what you think.

If the US were to become a nation that punishes dissent it would cease to be a country worth defending.

http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Well put. That's all I have to say.

I have some harsh news to break to you. Actually, you might want to sit down for this. Are you sitting? Good, here it comes.

American policy does not revolve around what you think.

Last time I looked America was still a democracy. Its policies do revolve around what the voters think.

Not to implicitly agree with F 'n' G, but I thought they did declare war on Iraq?

"Major combat operations" is not the same as a declaration of war. Plus, didn't the Bush administration claim "Mission Accomplished"?

Will the troops be withdrawn if you speak out? No. If you wish to show your support for such a plan, do it through a discreet and effective means: write a message to your elected representatives. Simply speaking out achieves nothing but the general disheartening of our troops.

FNG, you make it harder for someone to make a serious comment against you when you say these things.

Do you honestly believe that, youlittle puppet? Do you?

So, if I assume that you do, why would one bother taking the time writing a message to one's elected official. For one, they have no fucking patience for those writing in against Iraq. Why? They deal with DOMESTIC issues, not FOREIGN. Bang your head on a table until you fit this into your mind.

Also, if one was to get this through to an official, why would they even illicit a letter with a decent response? They'd have to take time out of their day to do so, considering the amount of people in the US that feel that we shouldn't be there? No. They have merger files for this. They take your name and address, merge that info into a pre-drafted paper, and return to sender.

Finally, FNG (the N to satisfy your repeated demands for the heads of those that call you FAG), flag burning is constitutionally protected by both conservative and liberal judges, so obviously dissent is protected and considered free in this country.

I have some harsh news to break to you. Actually, you might want to sit down for this. Are you sitting? Good, here it comes.

American policy does not revolve around what you think.

If he is American and in a majority (which he clearly is) then yes it does actually. Its called democracy. Remember that? The thing you "claim" to hold sacrosanct?

You fail AGAIN, go away troll

3 pages in the time it takes me to respond to one post. Man I'm off today.

Responding to FAG's posts is like watching Lidsville. You're strangely pulled to it, yet repulsed at the same time.

Last time I looked America was still a democracy. Its policies do revolve around what the voters think.

Voters are thinking for themselves? :eek: When did this happen?

as america is a democracy that is entirely false. The entire government revolves around what we the people think.
Though some days, we have to wonder if the people are actually engaging in the intricate thought process... ;)

I have some harsh news to break to you. Actually, you might want to sit down for this. Are you sitting? Good, here it comes.

American policy does not revolve around what you think.

as america is a democracy that is entirely false. The entire government revolves around what we the people think.

We're the ones that put them there.

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

Have you ever thought of packaging this stuff? I bet you could singlehandely fertilize the entire Sahara Desert. :)

3 pages in the time it takes me to respond to one post. Man I'm off today.

AND you actually took your time to respond to FNG.

What IS wrong with you today??

Prove it. Prove that speaking out against the war has lead to the death of US soldiers. If you can.

I can't point to a particular soldier and say that his death was due to media-induced demoralization. However, when taken as a aggregate quantity, several casualties were incurred due to substandard performance. The catalyst for this failure was, in some cases, the loss of heart.

Heroically carry out their noble duty to invade a sovereign country for reasons still unknown to them or the public.

No, their noble duty to rebuild a country from its squalor and to ensure that Iraq remains a haven for democracy, freedom, and goodwill in the future. Their just crusade to restore Iraq to its former glory and bring about a cessation to the sectarian hostilities which embitter the country and cause so much gruesome bloodshed.

Yes. Never question the government.

No, never question the government's handling of a war in a way that may be detrimental to the brave troops.

"Major combat operations" is not the same as a declaration of war.
I see. Well, since it's not war time this thread is even more ridiculous.
Plus, didn't the Bush administration claim "Mission Accomplished"?

I do remember that. Oh but I'm sure they meant a different mission. I mean, why would anyone end a war when your people will do anything you say for fear that the war will soon be fought on their doorstep. Orwell mentioned it in that guide on how to run a country, 1984.

I have some harsh news to break to you. Actually, you might want to sit down for this. Are you sitting? Good, here it comes.

American policy does not revolve around what you think.

yeah but it does revolve around what the voters think.

this is why the senate had a big slumber party last night.

the dems dont have the votes yet to end the war but they are trying to meet their duty to the public to do so. sooner or later they will succeed.

I don't hate America, but I would burn flags OFTEN, IN PUBLIC if flagburning was made illegal.

Dissent is as sexy as it gets.


If the US were to become a nation that punishes dissent it would cease to be a country worth defending.

http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Hey, I haven't seen you forever and I was just thinking about you yesterday for some unknown reason. Have a cookie. There's probably one somewhere in your general vicinity.

It is sad that the terrorists are winning. We were told the terrorists attacked because they didn't like the freedoms of the US. Then the same people that told us that turn around and take freedom away and say that freedom is unpatriotic.

In the US the least patriotic person is the person that doesn't protest. A person isn't much of a citizen if they can't find a single error in the government that they can protest. If you don't want to protest you could live under what ever Saddam is still out there. You would make a perfect citizen in a totalitarian regime. In the US if you don't protest, you are about as much use as mammary glands on a male swine.

Simply speaking out achieves nothing but the general disheartening of our troops.

No, never question the government's handling of a war in a way that may be detrimental to the brave troops.

Frankly speaking, and this is in response to all those who spout this tripe, if our soldiers, those who carry big guns and fight in mean nasty battles where bad things happen can't stand a few words and get their feelings hurt then to be truly honest they are not good enough to be soldiers.

It's the military for fucks sake. If our "brave troops" are bothered by criticism they are a far cry from brave, and don't deserve to be troops.

I don't hate America, but I would burn flags OFTEN, IN PUBLIC if flagburning was made illegal.

It's funny... when you tell people that, yes, you can burn our flag INISDE our country, they freak. I've told a few people that came in from places near Afghanistan (I can't remember the name of the country for the life of me <grr>) and they've flipped.

The beauty of America sometimes...

Frankly speaking, and this is in response to all those who spout this tripe, if our soldiers, those who carry big guns and fight in mean nasty battles where bad things happen can't stand a few words and get their feelings hurt then to be truly honest they are not good enough to be soldiers.

It's the military for fucks sake.

And who ever said the everyday soldier agrees with the war in the first place?

I was going to go point-by-point with FAG's regurgitated propaganda, but I'd rather quote the bumper sticker on my last car:

DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC.

I have five veterans in my immediate family. One bronze star winner. Y'know what? They ALL agree that the current administration's conduct of the war and the fact that we're even IN Iraq is a complete clusterfuck. My family sends letters and care packages to soldiers AND visibly displays their disgust with Bush. You CAN believe in and support the troops while pointing at the would-be Nero in the White House and yelling "the emperor has no clothes!"

And please, in the words of your own Vice-President, go fuck yourself if you try to tell me otherwise.

FAG isn't NM or RO. He's Frank Burns.

Here is a theoretical for you. Don't start answering it with "it'll never happen" its just theoretical.

1 - The US has an extreme change in social stability and economics and a coup takes place, led by a leading Mexican immigrant who institutes Communist policies.

2 - Due to severe economic depression these policies have a short term affect of bennefiting people, thus resulting in a public vote being held that endorses the new American government.

3- Mexico and Canada declare war on the USA to prevent the spread of communism (domino theory remember?)

Is it still dissent and treachery to stand up to this government that you disagree with even though you are at war?

It's the military for fucks sake.

They are men, not machines. They are not impervious to criticism.

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

By your reasoning, the United States was founded by traitors who dissented against the King of England. And apparently all dissent is, according to you, a very, very bad thing. What do you say to that?

As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

Huh? Didn't you ever think that this could also work the other way around?

Is it still dissent and treachery to stand up to this government that you disagree with even though you are at war?

If the government is democratically elected, it should be supported in its war effort, its ruinous economic policies notwithstanding. However, if it ascends to power via a coup as you stated, then it should be vehemently and scathingly decried.

I was going to go point-by-point with FAG's regurgitated propaganda, but I'd rather quote the bumper sticker on my last car:

DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC.

I have five veterans in my immediate family. One bronze star winner. Y'know what? They ALL agree that the current administration's conduct of the war and the fact that we're even IN Iraq is a complete clusterfuck. My family sends letters and care packages to soldiers AND visibly displays their disgust with Bush. You CAN believe in and support the troops while pointing at the would-be Nero in the White House and yelling "the emperor has no clothes!"

And please, in the words of your own Vice-President, go fuck yourself if you try to tell me otherwise.

FAG isn't NM or RO. He's Frank Burns.

Frank Burns? He's not that literate. But true, it's been fifty years since he was last seen. I hope he hasn't made General.

And a soldier who can not do that does not deserve to be a soldier.

Have you ever served in our nation's (or any other nation's, for that matter) armed forces? If not, you have no right whatsoever to say who "deserves" to be a soldier.

Voters are thinking for themselves? :eek: When did this happen?
Well, that's how it's meant to work.
AND you actually took your time to respond to FNG.

What IS wrong with you today??
I must be sick or something.
I can't point to a particular soldier and say that his death was due to media-induced demoralization.
I expected as much.
No, their noble duty to rebuild a country from its squalor
The squalor that they created.
and to ensure that Iraq remains a haven for democracy, freedom, and goodwill in the future. Their just crusade to restore Iraq to its former glory and bring about a cessation to the sectarian hostilities which embitter the country and cause so much gruesome bloodshed.
Is that so? So why didn't America invade Northern Ireland?

No, never question the government's handling of a war in a way that may be detrimental to the brave troops.

The result of this: Never ending war.

If the government is democratically elected, it should be supported in its war effort, its ruinous economic policies notwithstanding. However, if it ascends to power via a coup as you stated, then it should be vehemently and scathingly decried.

Thanks for clearing that up. You just PROVED what a blind idiot you really are.:rolleyes:

Now on ignore.

They are men, not machines. They are not impervious to criticism.

nor are they impervious to bullets. And if they are incapable of not having their work efficiency deminished when facing the former, then how in hell can we expect them to be able to stand against the latter?

Bullets are more scary than words, they are more disenhearting than words, they are more dangerous than words. If a soldier can't withstand a hail of words then he certainly can't withstand a hail of bullets. And a soldier who can not do that does not deserve to be a soldier.

*the OP*
Give us back our bloody land, then, yer colonist bastard.

Is that so? So why didn't America invade Northern Ireland?

Because such an action would simply exacerbate the tensions as the scale of the violence was minute (at least in comparison to Iraq). You don't kill a fly with a hand grenade.

Give us back our bloody land, then, yer colonist bastard.

That's just what I mentioned in my post a few minutes ago.

Give us back our bloody land, then, yer colonist bastard.

Only when you give us back Northern Ireland! :p

Give us back our bloody land, then, yer colonist bastard.

The British government was not democratically elected by the American people and thus had no right to demand colonial obedience.

Have you ever served in our nation's (or any other nation's, for that matter) armed forces? If not, you have no right whatsoever to say who "deserves" to be a soldier.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


well...fuck that one right to hell huh?

If we were really concerned about taking out the most evil dictators we would have gone to Africa. We went for oil. Nothing patriotic about making the rich richer.

I can't point to a particular soldier and say that his death was due to media-induced demoralization.

If you can't do that...

However, when taken as a aggregate quantity, several casualties were incurred due to substandard performance. The catalyst for this failure was, in some cases, the loss of heart.

...then you cannot claim this. At least not without admitting that you're shamelessly exploiting soldiers' deaths to wave the flag and try to squelch opinions you don't like.

No, their noble duty to rebuild a country from its squalor...

Squalor which is largely our creation.

...and to ensure that Iraq remains a haven for democracy, freedom, and goodwill in the future.

Which is most easily done with bombs and bullets. Can you name any time in history where democracy was imposed on any nation by force from outside it where it actually worked? No. No you can't. Nobody can. Fail.

Their just crusade to restore Iraq to its former glory and bring about a cessation to the sectarian hostilities which embitter the country and cause so much gruesome bloodshed.

This post is so contorted with cognitive dissonance I'm surprised you haven't got carpal-tunnel or arthritis. You actually use the word "crusade" in context with a Middle-Eastern war? And in the same sentence chide those WE INVADED (supposedly out of Christian concern?) for being sectarian? That settles it. You're not in any way a person who believes this stuff. You're a troll performance artist in Greenwich Village with long hair and pack of clove ciggies, drawing NEA funds for these posts.

No, never question the government's handling of a war in a way that may be detrimental to the brave troops.

Frank Burns. I swear. See, I don't have to question it when the troops returning home and talking to journalists are doing it for me. I suspected something was wrong, they confirm it for me interview by interview.

well...fuck that one right to hell huh?

Silly things like facts won't make a difference.

Only when you give us back Northern Ireland! :p
You can fucking have Northern Ireland. Go for it. Nobody really wants the IRA remnants pootling about any more.
The British government was not democratically elected by the American people and thus had no right to demand colonial obedience.
Still our land, and patrotism isn't about democracy, it's about loving thine country.

See Soviet and Chinese patriotism. Can't pretend it's not there.

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

I am overloaded by the implications of this OP...

Time to whip out the Ignore Cannon.

Snip.

How did you know I wanted to test my new technique?

I show you, people...

The Musical!

This shall be your Requiem!

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGHa6XwJo54 - Begin from Cox saying "Do you know...")

Do you know friggin' wrong you are?

The answer is "a lot".

Should I list the reasons why?
Well, I don't see why not.

Your contention that their feelings would be hurt only by words
As opposed to lack of equipment, leadership or purpose
Is insane, it's incoherent, it is asinine at best!
Were you any other person I'd say surely you jest!

If troops existed to protect freedoms you claim to hold dear
They would not be fighting over there, they'd be fighting right here
That, assuming that you are indeed this kind of right wing nut
And not saying all these things, trolling, to avoid the rut.

Trolling, to avoid the rut?

(Cue to the Experienced Mod)

It all started with some trolling in a forum
That ended, 'cuz he caused a lack of quorum...
So now all the mods pray, each and every day
Hoping that this kind of guy shows up no more!

(End cue)

As you go on ranting about all the evils in dissent
You forget that your own country's birth had it as requirement
And if you keep on fapping about the glory of King George
You will make your forefather's spirits want to jump down a gorge!

(End)

So, people, enjoyed the arguing requiem I just sang for him? ;)

I am overloaded by the implications of this OP...

Time to whip out the Ignore Cannon.

Fuck the cannon, we'll have to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I agree. Dissent is treason.

Your treasonous founding fathers, the terrorists they were, should all have been hung.

But the British were, um, dissenting from the will of the American people!
Canada is so much more awesome: Timely Independence with Maximum Amiability Towards All Parties! :D

Oh, and F&G, I agree as well. Only our Leaders know what is best for us. The are needed to Guide the People. Even if they are Democrats.

Fuck the cannon, we'll have to nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Ignore Space Laser?

They are men, not machines. They are not impervious to criticism.

Nobody -- BUT NOBODY -- is criticizing them or the job they're doing. The higher-ups who are botching their supervisory and tactical duties, supply needs and overall maintenance of the force are worth criticizing. In spades.

Remember, it was Rumsfeld who dismissed the original general's (Shalikashvili?) assessment that we'd need something like 300,000 to 400,000 troops to do what we really wanted to do in Iraq.

Face it, FAG (and as long as your initials are shown to be F, A and G, I'll abbreviate your screen name that way), the soldiers are doing the very best they can, and the criticism is directed, as it always has been, at those who tell the soldiers what to do and where to go. The criticism, and the blood of those great young soldiers, are on their hands. NOT the hands of anyone who knows a bad idea when they see it.

If the government is democratically elected, it should be supported in its war effort, its ruinous economic policies notwithstanding. However, if it ascends to power via a coup as you stated, then it should be vehemently and scathingly decried.

"If."

Ignore Space Laser?

Ignore "Dividing by zero and ending existence"

OH SHI-

Have you ever served in our nation's (or any other nation's, for that matter) armed forces? If not, you have no right whatsoever to say who "deserves" to be a soldier.

Have you?

FAG, you are a worthless scumbag.

People like you are the reason Bush can get away with murdering 3000 soldiers via Iraq.

People like you are the reason why we have eight years under the most horrible president in the history of the US.

People like you are the reason why half the world hates us.

People like you are the reason why Bush can get away with ignoring Al Qaeda and fulfilling his personal vendetta against Saddam.

People like you are the reason why there'll probably be another 9/11.

People like you will turn into whiny bitches and report this topic I am currently typing.

Fortunately, however, the mods have enough sense to close your divisive message, not mine.

Get the hell out of NS, traitor.

Nobody -- BUT NOBODY -- is criticizing them or the job they're doing. The higher-ups who are botching their supervisory and tactical duties, supply needs and overall maintenance of the force are worth criticizing. In spades.

Remember, it was Rumsfeld who dismissed the original general's (Shalikashvili?) assessment that we'd need something like 300,000 to 400,000 troops to do what we really wanted to do in Iraq.

Face it, FAG (and as long as your initials are shown to be F, A and G, I'll abbreviate your screen name that way), the soldiers are doing the very best they can, and the criticism is directed, as it always has been, at those who tell the soldiers what to do and where to go. The criticism, and the blood of those great young soldiers, are on their hands. NOT the hands of anyone who knows a bad idea when they see it.

The troops aren't doing their job.

They're supposed to be a tool of the government, used to lose wars and give the government an excuse to grant itself more and more power. And once the dictator for life is voted in by a terrified public they'll be used to keep the war going permanently(to keep the people scared), and to defend the dictator from any rebellion that might begin.

At least, that's the impression I get from F'n'G's rantings.

How did you know I wanted to test my new technique?

I show you, people...

The Musical!

*snip*


*THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!*

*THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE!*

*Bows* ;)

The troops aren't doing their job.

They're supposed to be a tool of the government, used to lose wars and give the government an excuse to grant itself more and more power. And once the dictator for life is voted in by a terrified public they'll be used to keep the war going permanently(to keep the people scared), and to defend the dictator from any rebellion that might begin.

At least, that's the impression I get from F'n'G's rantings.

"War is peace." Of course. How silly of me to have forgotten.

"War is peace." Of course. How silly of me to have forgotten.

Yes, we'll have to take you to be re-educated.

Yes, we'll have to take you to be re-educated.

Ooo, maybe this time I'll get over 300 volts! I'm looking to break the record.

I would rather have my account be closed by the mods than have it be open on a site where a troll stomps on everything our founding fathers worked for and everyone's too chicken to shut him up.

This troll isn't nearly as fun as Jessussaves.

I would rather have my account be closed by the mods than have it be open on a site where a troll stomps on everything our founding fathers worked for and everyone's too chicken to shut him up.

You shouldn't fret. Do it like me. I did it in rhyme, in song and verse, just to show him that - even under these constrains, metrics and so on - I can still beat him easily at arguing.

...a troll stomps on everything our founding fathers worked for and everyone's too chicken to shut him up.

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.

I would rather have my account be closed by the mods than have it be open on a site where a troll stomps on everything our founding fathers worked for and everyone's too chicken to shut him up.

But getting your account closed won't shut him up. It will accomplish exactly nothing. Only the Mods can actually force him to shut up, and they won't unless he breaks the rules severely enough.

I would rather have my account be closed by the mods than have it be open on a site where a troll stomps on everything our founding fathers worked for and everyone's too chicken to shut him up.

the irony of this is delicious.

This troll isn't nearly as fun as Jessussaves.
Or even MTAE :(

You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.

Aw, F&G, you're so sweet… the rest of us are flattered. :p

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right

Not on a private board it aint

I did it in rhyme, in song and verse

Nice work on the song -- you've won the battle, but not the war. When I think of a suitable lyrical reply, I'll post it.

International forum, people, some of us don't share your "founding fathers".

Incidentally, is this discussion about the war on Iraq, or the "war on terror"? I'd just like to clear up my own confusion.

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.
Weren't you the one that suggested that free speech only applied to speech literally? It doesn't matter really. You don't have the right to free speech here.
the irony of this is delicious.

I agree, it's going nicely with my popcorn.

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.

I find myself forced to basically agree, although I must point out the irony of you saying this, especially in this thread.

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.
Yeah, whatever, can we have our land back now, please?

Nice work on the song -- you've won the battle, but not the war. When I think of a suitable lyrical reply, I'll post it.
Right. My house will quite possibly have eroded from the friction of a breeze passing over it by then.

Nice work on the song -- you've won the battle, but not the war. When I think of a suitable lyrical reply, I'll post it.

By all means, no need to use song. Reply to me WITHOUT the constraints I forced upon myself - if you're capable. If you don't, you'll be admitting that I, constrained, am better at this than you, free.

International forum, people, some of us don't share your "founding fathers".

Incidentally, is this discussion about the war on Iraq, or the "war on terror"? I'd just like to clear up my own confusion.
Erm just to clear this up - FnG is possibly the worst debator ever, and he will claim either/or, or perhaps link it to Korea or something, to try and bolster and argument about as strong as a Trabant's windscreen wipers.

Cue picture of Bush with puppy dog eyes, and caption:

…Regardless of what the neo-Bolsheviks tell you, that isn't Bush's fault.

You know what? This guy is right.

It doesn't matter whether you're a peace-loving, gay, african-american, vegan, quadriplegic, blue-state atheist, because Islamofascists still want to murder you and your family.

And regardless of what the neo-Bolsheviks tell you, that isn't Bush's fault.

I don't know about you, but nobody but serial killers want to kill me and my family. One of the benefits of being Irish, everyone loves you.


Oh, and your post is bullshit.

You know what? This guy is right.

It doesn't matter whether you're a peace-loving, gay, african-american, vegan, quadriplegic, blue-state atheist, because Islamofascists still want to murder you and your family.

And regardless of what the neo-Bolsheviks tell you, that isn't Bush's fault.

You know what? This guy is right.

It doesn't matter whether you're a peace-loving, gay, african-american, vegan, quadriplegic, blue-state atheist, because Islamofascists still want to murder you and your family.

And regardless of what the neo-Bolsheviks tell you, that isn't Bush's fault.

Share and enjoy, kiddo. Let's see if you can dodge my Requiem.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12887539#post12887539

You know what? This guy is right.

It doesn't matter whether you're a peace-loving, gay, african-american, vegan, quadriplegic, blue-state atheist, because Islamofascists still want to murder you and your family.

And regardless of what the neo-Bolsheviks tell you, that isn't Bush's fault.
Right. Erm. I see.

What, all of them?

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.

Aw, we've shut you up so many time, I bet you look like a cupboard by now.

Yeah, whatever, can we have our land back now, please?

Actually I think the aboriginals have first claims in already. ;)

How many muslims do you actually know? Most of the muslims I know, don't want to kill me. Learn something about a culture, religion or whatever you want to bash, before you condemn everyone who is a part of it.

erm... It's aboriginies, aboriginals isn't a word.

Right. Erm. I see.

What, all of them?

Yes. Even the sweetest Islamofacist newborn baby is secretly hungry for your blood.

You know what? This guy is right.

It doesn't matter whether you're a peace-loving, gay, african-american, vegan, quadriplegic, blue-state atheist, because Islamofascists still want to murder you and your family.

And regardless of what the neo-Bolsheviks tell you, that isn't Bush's fault.

Not originally, but he hasn't done anything but make those Islamofascists want to kill every American even more than they did before. Sorry, but when you're pouring gas on an arson fire that started hours ago, you don't get points for pointing out who lit the match.

Actually I think the aboriginals have first claims in already. ;)
Drat!

Foiled again by my most feared enemy, Logic And Reasoning!

Right. Erm. I see.

What, all of them?

MODEDIT BY SCOLOPENDRA: DON'T LINK GRAPHIC THINGS HERE, PLEASE.

Those kinds of guys. Don't forget the 1994 World Trade Center bombing, the Cole, or the embassies in Africa. Or the barracks in Lebanon.

Or Saudi Arabia and Iran, which both still live in the 6th century under Islamic law.

How ironic how all the secular-progressives never like to rag on people still in the Middle Ages. But they give America's government hell because they don't agree with it, despite the freedoms of speech and press, civil rights, et cetera. It isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than in Iran or Saudi Arabia, I can guarantee you that.

Please don't quote the link in the above post. And I'd advise against watching the video.

How many muslims do you actually know? Most of the muslims I know, don't want to kill me. Learn something about a culture, religion or whatever you want to bash, before you condemn everyone who is a part of it.
This one will do well here. Welcome to NS.
Drat!

Foiled again by my most feared enemy, Logic And Reasoning!

You should try to be more like F'n'G, logic and reasoning bounce off his armour like a dodgeball off a slow-to-react child's face.


I like my simile :)

Those kinds of guys. Don't forget the 1994 World Trade Center bombing, the Cole, or the embassies in Africa. Or the barracks in Lebanon.

Or Saudi Arabia and Iran, which both still live in the 6th century under Islamic law.

How ironic how all the secular-progressives never like to rag on people still in the Middle Ages. But they give America's government hell because they don't agree with it.

I sang the Requiem for you too. Will you answer it or will you accept to be victimized by it?

erm... It's aboriginies, aboriginals isn't a word.

USAGE: Both Aboriginals and Aborigines are standard plural forms…

Ha. :D

*that last post
I bet I could totally convice them to stop attacking me and my family and go and burn a Synagogue down instead or something.

Anyway. Yes, I could totally shift away their anger, hence rendering your argument poorer than a Chadian monk.

I hate America.
I won't lie, there really isn't much I could possibly like that has come from it. Except for Apple Computing. But that point is negated by Microsoft's existence.
On second note, I'm making progress on designing my signature, and since nobody will check this post...
-Barcode

This post on page 1 is where I stopped. I'm sure the last 8 pages ave mostly reflected what I am about to say so I apoligize for the reiterated diatribe, as I'm sure "FreedomandGlory" will see it as such; I just couldn't take it any more ...

And the people have the right to express their opinions via elections. However, their dissatisfaction should not manifest itself as open dissent against the administration's policies during a time of war -- such a regrettable eventuality would needlessly cause suffering among the troops. Sabotaging our war effort and indirectly killing American soldiers is not a proper way to keep a government in check.

Our dissatisfaction in our government has every right to manifest itself in whichever form gets the job done. Voting is mearly one method. Here's a refresher course ...

"When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." ~Thomas Jefferson~

You should try to be more like F'n'G, logic and reasoning bounce off his armour like a dodgeball off a slow-to-react child's face.

I like my simile :)

:(

I liked your "Divisor by Zero" ignore one better.

*pulls in deckchair and grabs popcorn*

Another FAG original. They're absolute classics.

I would just like to add my condolences to those who live with him.

He should write for Private Eye.

This one will do well here. Welcome to NS.
Indeed.

Hullo, new poster!
You should try to be more like F'n'G, logic and reasoning bounce off his armour just like a dodgeball off his manchild's face.


I like my simile :)
I feel I have improved it somewhat :p

I would just like to add my condolences to those who live with him.

He should write for Private Eye.
I think the Daily Express is looking for new writers, he might fit right in as long as he could get Diana in somehow :)

C'est l'histoire d'une société qui tombe - elle répète sans cesse pour se rassurer :
Jusqu'ici, tout va bien, Jusqu'ici, tout va bien, Jusqu'ici, tout va bien.
Mais l'important, c'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.

I don't want to seem pedantic but since you're an active poster I see your sig all the time and I just had to correct it.

I bet I could totally convice them to stop attacking me and my family and go and burn a Synagogue down instead or something.

Anyway. Yes, I could totally shift away their anger, hence rendering your argument poorer than a Chadian monk.

Really? What about the time the Iranians captured a boatload of soldiers a few months ago? Thankfully (for his own sake) Ahmadinejad may have a shred of sense about him and didn't kill the hostages - but he put them on show as if in a zoo.

Oh, and great to know you're an anti-Semite, too. Joy! :rolleyes: If you can convince an Islamofascist not to kill a Westerner given the chance, then I am a Bolshevik and you a Republican.

Really? What about the time the Iranians captured a boatload of soldiers a few months ago? Thankfully (for his own sake) Ahmadinejad may have a shred of sense about him and didn't kill the hostages - but he put them on show as if in a zoo.

Oh, and great to know you're an anti-Semite, too. Joy! :rolleyes: If you can convince an Islamofascist not to kill a Westerner given the chance, then I am a Bolshevik and you a Republican.

Three strikes, he accepts my Requiem, ladies and gentlemen!

<violent video snip>

Those kinds of guys. Don't forget the 1994 World Trade Center bombing, the Cole, or the embassies in Africa. Or the barracks in Lebanon.

Or Saudi Arabia and Iran, which both still live in the 6th century under Islamic law.

How ironic how all the secular-progressives never like to rag on people still in the Middle Ages. But they give America's government hell because they don't agree with it, despite the freedoms of speech and press, civil rights, et cetera. It isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot better than in Iran or Saudi Arabia, I can guarantee you that.

People expect more from a country that considers itself a shining beacon of freedom and democracy than they expect of Iran or Saudi Arabia.

And I haven't watched it yet, but if that video shows that man being executed you should take it down NOW.

Evidently it does.

Wait. He's complaining about the hostages put on display? What about the Ahu Grahib (Ghraib? Grhaib? Grhonestabe?) Or, possibly, that article that was in Maclean's a few months ago about the house-storming tactics as explained by a deserting soldier trying to seek refuge in Canada?

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.

Fine, FnG, we'll shut you up for good by unraveling (yet again) your utter incompetence.

Your thread title is "Dissent is NOT Patriotic," yet by saying "free speech is a fundamental right" in your first sentence contradicts the argument you made in your first post - that free speech is harmful. See, the media uses free speech to get their point about Iraq out to the public; people who protest the war in Iraq use free speech to get their point across; you're using (particularly disastrously) your "fundamental right" to free speech right now.

Yet that wasn't the point you originally made and, thusly, are retracting your first argument, no? That argument was, essentially, dissent against the United States was not patriotic, but traitorous. Now, by saying that we are denying you your right to free speech and "not respecting your opinion," you acknowledge that it was and is good and necessary to have dissent in America - because, then, we "respect everyone's opinions." Not respecting everyone's opinion, which is exactly what you did in your OP, contradicts the high judgement that you place on America's founding fathers and discredits your point.

You WILL be detracting said point, no?

You WILL be detracting said point, no?

And on that day Satan will be driving to work on a snow plough

:(

I liked your "Divisor by Zero" ignore one better.

That wasn't a simile.

I think the Daily Express is looking for new writers, he might fit right in as long as he could get Diana in somehow :)

I think the Mail would be better, if only they didn't treat criticising government policy as an art form.

Wait. He's complaining about the hostages put on display? What about the Ahu Grahib (Ghraib? Grhaib? Grhonestabe?) Or, possibly, that article that was in Maclean's a few months ago about the house-storming tactics as explained by a deserting soldier trying to seek refuge in Canada?

Because putting panties on a prisoner's head is so worse than having their heads cut off, right?

(And if the mods have a problem with the link - to which I posted a warning - than they can go ahead and delete it.)

I don't want to seem pedantic but since you're an active poster I see your sig all the time and I just had to correct it.
Thank you kindly. Sort of misquoted La Haine. Whoops.
Really? What about the time the Iranians captured a boatload of soldiers a few months ago? Thankfully (for his own sake) Ahmadinejad may have a shred of sense about him and didn't kill the hostages - but he put them on show as if in a zoo.
Ermm I was unaware that this led to Islamofascists killing my entire family with shish kebab skewers or whatever you claimed.
Oh, and great to know you're an anti-Semite, too. Joy! :rolleyes: If you can convince an Islamofascist not to kill a Westerner given the chance, then I am a Bolshevik and you a Republican.
Erm I'm not really anti-Semitic so much as levelling your argument. I could fairly easily convince an 'Islamofascist' to kill a Jew instead of me, just as I could convince the Janjaweed to attack a village full of black Africans instead of burning down Bishopthorpe down the road.

If I was you I'd also take down the video of the guy getting executed unless you want to be certainly permabanned instead of it merely being a 90+% chance.

Thank you kindly. Sort of misquoted La Haine. Whoops.

Language pedants UNITE!

I think the Mail would be better, if only they didn't treat criticising government policy as an art form.
Quite.

"Oh, I see, they've reduced house prices - THE IMMIGRANTS WILL COME AND OUR HOUSES WILL REDUCE IN VALUE AND ERM TEENAGE PREGNANCY WILL RISE DUE TO A LACK OF NATIONAL SERVICE!"

"Oh, look, they've increased house prices - OH HOW WILL WHITE, MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES AFFORD TO LIVE? TRULY THIS IS THE DISPICABLE LEGACY OF TONY 'NANNY STATE' BLAIR"

Alright, here's my counter-song.

Our soldiers are dying in a foreign land,
Fighting for freedom: ain't it grand?
Yeah, that's the reason for this war;
That's what we're all striving for.

But then you say, "Let's pull out!
Not retreat, but a total rout."
Our soldiers are shot at from everywhere,
Not just on the ground, but on the air.
For the couple of you who are thinking, "The insurgents don't have planes! Wt-," I am referring to the "air" in the media sense.
They're losing their faith because of you,
But without it, what can we do?
They're in a desert, all alone,
Oh so far from their home.

You tell them that they're doing naught,
That all their sacrifices are for squat.
At some point they will lose their heart
If you keep saying, "Do depart."

They will slow to a halt
And their death will be your fault.

"Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism"
-Thomas Jefferson

If Dissent was traiterous, then this could be no more then a despotism, where King George could throw you in jail indefinatly.... oh.. wait...
:upyours:

Erm I'm not really anti-Semitic so much as levelling your argument. I could fairly easily convince an 'Islamofascist' to kill a Jew instead of me, just as I could convince the Janjaweed to attack a village full of black Africans instead of burning down Bishopthorpe down the road.

If I was you I'd also take down the video of the guy getting executed unless you want to be certainly permabanned instead of it merely being a 90+% chance.

Well, you certainly did a poor job of levelling my argument. All you stated is that you could possibly save yourself from being killed by one of those sickos. Even if you could, what about the rest of us who didn't come up with that idea? Perhaps what if it didn't always work? Best to get rid of the extremists - elsewhere - rather than in your own front yard.

And again if the mods have a problem with it, delete it. But I posted fair warning.

Because putting panties on a prisoner's head is so worse than having their heads cut off, right?

(And if the mods have a problem with the link - to which I posted a warning - than they can go ahead and delete it.)

They can also go ahead and delete your account....

Incidentally, are you really trying to claim the moral high ground by citing abuse of prisoners? Thats inspired.

Language pedants UNITE!
Yes, they do.

I think you meant "Language pendants, UNITE!" :p

I think you meant "Language pendants, UNITE!" :p

+5 Pendant of Language? I would so unite with that.


*awkward*

+5 Pendant of Language? I would so unite with that.


*awkward*

Adds +5 to tongue dexterity.

You WILL be detracting said point, no?

No. Just because free speech is a fundamental right does not imply that its employment cannot be traitorous.

They can also go ahead and delete your account....

Incidentally, are you really trying to claim the moral high ground by citing abuse of prisoners? Thats inspired.

Doesn't matter. I never said Abu Gharib was a good thing. However, a panty hose is far better than ahem...a machete.

Incidentally, are you really trying to claim the moral high ground by citing abuse of prisoners? Thats inspired.

No, the moral high ground claim is based on a comparison of prisoner abuse. That's slighter more inspired (0.01%), but a weaker argument.

FreedomAndGlory - if you feel so inspired about this, go join the army instead of just sitting in front of computer complaining about others.

Alright, here's my counter-song.

Our soldiers are dying in a foreign land,
Fighting for freedom: ain't it grand?
Yeah, that's the reason for this war;
That's what we're all striving for.

But then you say, "Let's pull out!
Not retreat, but a total rout."
Our soldiers are shot at from everywhere,
Not just on the ground, but on the air.
For the couple of you who are thinking, "The insurgents don't have planes! Wt-," I am referring to the "air" in the media sense.
They're losing their faith because of you,
But without it, what can we do?
They're in a desert, all alone,
Oh so far from their home.

You tell them that they're doing naught,
That all their sacrifices are for squat.
At some point they will lose their heart
If you keep saying, "Do depart."

They will slow to a halt
And their death will be your fault.

Nice poem. Even assuming it as a song, even with all the metrics.

Too bad you fail to take into account that the central supposed point of your song was brought on its knees in the first stanza of mine. Nice that you chose to do it in song, but you failed to deliver a point there.

Alright, here's my counter-song.

Our soldiers are dying in a foreign land,
Fighting for freedom: ain't it grand?
Yeah, that's the reason for this war;
That's what we're all striving for.

But then you say, "Let's pull out!
Not retreat, but a total rout."
Our soldiers are shot at from everywhere,
Not just on the ground, but on the air.
For the couple of you who are thinking, "The insurgents don't have planes! Wt-," I am referring to the "air" in the media sense.
They're losing their faith because of you,
But without it, what can we do?
They're in a desert, all alone,
Oh so far from their home.

You tell them that they're doing naught,
That all their sacrifices are for squat.
At some point they will lose their heart
If you keep saying, "Do depart."

They will slow to a halt
And their death will be your fault.

Where's the melody?

Alright, here's my counter-song.

Our soldiers are dying in a foreign land,
Fighting for freedom: ain't it grand?
Yeah, that's the reason for this war;
That's what we're all striving for.

But then you say, "Let's pull out!
Not retreat, but a total rout."
Our soldiers are shot at from everywhere,
Not just on the ground, but on the air.
For the couple of you who are thinking, "The insurgents don't have planes! Wt-," I am referring to the "air" in the media sense.
They're losing their faith because of you,
But without it, what can we do?
They're in a desert, all alone,
Oh so far from their home.

You tell them that they're doing naught,
That all their sacrifices are for squat.
At some point they will lose their heart
If you keep saying, "Do depart."

They will slow to a halt
And their death will be your fault.

I'm assuming that, whilst singing this, you pretend all those nasty "arguments" that disagree with you should be burnt on the fire in front of you?

Adds +5 to tongue dexterity.

Which boosts your skill as a cunning linguist.

I'm assuming that, whilst singing this, you pretend all those nasty "arguments" that disagree with you should be burnt on the fire in front of you?

The fire is in a propane barbeque (not an old left-wing-union-sympathizer oil drum), and F&G's fellows have gathered around it, signing the chorus.

FreedomAndGlory - if you feel so inspired about this, go join the army instead of just sitting in front of computer complaining about others.

If you bothered to read my original post, you would have realized that I stated that the enemy who detracts most from our war effort is not the insurgent, but he who spews anti-war propaganda. Conversely, he who contributes most to our war effort is not the soldier, but he who advocates a pro-war stance. Although I am certain that our men and women in uniform are much more crucial to the war effort than I, I feel that my service can best be rendered thusly and not by joining the army.

(And if the mods have a problem with the link - to which I posted a warning - than they can go ahead and delete it.)

I don't think a warning will make any difference, you linked to a video of a man being beheaded.

I'm assuming that, whilst singing this, you pretend all those nasty "arguments" that disagree with you should be burnt on the fire in front of you?

In his defense, I started the song thing. That he couldn't argue a point is another thing entirely.

Doesn't matter. I never said Abu Gharib was a good thing. However, a panty hose is far better than ahem...a machete.

If only the insurgents were intending to take those they abducted prisoner, and not simply use them as hostages, eh?

There is a fundamental difference between the taking of a prisoner as a hostage, and for internment. The latter is the action of a civilised, reasoned society, the former of insurgents and terrorists; however, if you seek to suggest that you're being terribly gracious not beheading prisoners for crimes such as theft, feel free.

Freedom, watch out you don't go and step on an IED.

Well, I'm out for a while - I have other things that need to get done. I'll be back later.

Until then have fun running in circles, I guess.

Alright, here's my counter-song.

Our soldiers are dying in a foreign land,
Fighting for freedom: ain't it grand?
Yeah, that's the reason for this war;
That's what we're all striving for.

But then you say, "Let's pull out!
Not retreat, but a total rout."
Our soldiers are shot at from everywhere,
Not just on the ground, but on the air.
For the couple of you who are thinking, "The insurgents don't have planes! Wt-," I am referring to the "air" in the media sense.
They're losing their faith because of you,
But without it, what can we do?
They're in a desert, all alone,
Oh so far from their home.

You tell them that they're doing naught,
That all their sacrifices are for squat.
At some point they will lose their heart
If you keep saying, "Do depart."

They will slow to a halt
And their death will be your fault.
Sorry to be rude
But that wasn't very g[ew]d
You gave it a try,
But please let the song die,
Exactly just like it sh[ew]d.

See what I did there?

Kicked your arse with a song including 2 half-rhymes. That's how easy it is.
Well, you certainly did a poor job of levelling my argument. All you stated is that you could possibly save yourself from being killed by one of those sickos.
Which kills your argument in a single stroke more deadly than a machine gun which fires angry scorpions.
Even if you could, what about the rest of us who didn't come up with that idea?
I'd lol, because it took me about 3 milliseconds to think up.
Perhaps what if it didn't always work?
There aren't really that many 'Islamofascists' to go around, though, let's be honest.
Best to get rid of the extremists - elsewhere - rather than in your own front yard.
What, by blowing them up?

Yeah, works every time. See the VC in Vietnam.
And again if the mods have a problem with it, delete it. But I posted fair warning.
Haha you're so fucked.

Kicked your arse with a song including 2 half-rhymes. That's how easy it is.

Your song has absolutely no rhythm.

And on that day Satan will be driving to work on a snow plough

Yeah, I like to dream... big.

Like Nader-becoming-president (no, I don't want that to happen) big.

FreedomAndGlory - if you feel so inspired about this, go join the army instead of just sitting in front of computer complaining about others.

I've already asked him if he had ever served. No answer yet. Surprise.

Which boosts your skill as a cunning linguist.

I always thought that my aptitude as a cunning linguist left a lot to be desired… people kept telling me that, even after the tongue exercises.
…
…
…
The tongue exercises were for PRONUNCIATION, okay?

This war is an atrocity! (Iraq, not Afganistan) George Bush and his cronies have led us to an abyss, we'll never fully recover our integrity in the international community. We're despised across the world! Do you wonder why? If Bush keeps his shit up, before you know it the Terrorists will be stronger then they ever were! And no one in favor of a war can claim Moral high ground!:upyours: That's all the angry words I had to say.,..

Gee. A) George W. B) George III. Your choice FnG. attach message.
" Sorry bub, I won't tol your tryanny "

If you bothered to read my original post, you would have realized that I stated that the enemy who detracts most from our war effort is not the insurgent, but he who spews anti-war propaganda. Conversely, he who contributes most to our war effort is not the soldier, but he who advocates a pro-war stance. Although I am certain that our men and women in uniform are much more crucial to the war effort than I, I feel that my service can best be rendered thusly and not by joining the army.

Holy shit.

I'm posting this to every military site I can find. You've just fucked yourself royally, son.

If you bothered to read my original post, you would have realized that I stated that the enemy who detracts most from our war effort is not the insurgent, but he who spews anti-war propaganda. Conversely, he who contributes most to our war effort is not the soldier, but he who advocates a pro-war stance. Although I am certain that our men and women in uniform are much more crucial to the war effort than I, I feel that my service can best be rendered thusly and not by joining the army.

Ah, so your valiently taking the fight to the evil denizens of NSG is heroic, not just pitiable?

Incidentally, why are anti-war sentiments propaganda, and their pro-war opposites a stance?

No. Just because free speech is a fundamental right does not imply that its employment cannot be traitorous.

No, THAT wasn't the point. The point was you made the argument that America's founding fathers believed in freedom of ideas, irregardless if they were in dissent, contrary to your argument that dissent is traitorous.

Way to *snip* my post so unsuccessfully, again...

Which kills your argument in a single stroke more deadly than a machine gun which fires angry scorpions.

Possibly not very deadly? The gun would have to fire them very slowly, otherwise the scorpions would lose their anger along with all of their internal organs.
But it would create a recreational sport far more entertaining for onlookers than paintball.

I'm assuming that, whilst singing this, you pretend all those nasty "arguments" that disagree with you should be burnt on the fire in front of you?
I can imagine it now like a perverse version of a jazz band. Playing in a smokey Green Zone barracks

"Yo... *inhales cigarette* - ma man RO's on drums."
"Coooool"
"Yo, this one goes out to ma cats in the 10th Mountain, sluggin' it out with the Taliban"
*tish-tish-ter-tish-tish etc.*

Your song has absolutely no rhythm.
Never heard a limerick?

Your song has absolutely no rhythm.

The word you're looking for is "meter". It's asymmetrical, and thus unusual for song form. Yours did have an even meter, but your words were obliterated by Hekioku's.

Stick to flinging cowardly pro-war, "I'm more important to the war effort than the soldier" posts, okay?

contrary to your argument that dissent is traitorous.

Actually, I only said that dissent against a democratically-elected administration's conduct of a war is traitorous. But I couldn't fit all that in the title.

FreedomandGlory deserves neither freedom nor Glory.

The word you're looking for is "meter". It's asymmetrical, and thus unusual for song form. Yours did have an even meter, but your words were obliterated by Hekioku's.

Stick to flinging cowardly pro-war, "I'm more important to the war effort than the soldier" posts, okay?

Indeed, his metrics worked well. His argument didn't, but I do have to compliment him on the effort of putting his (poor) points in song.

Possibly not very deadly? The gun would have to fire them very slowly, otherwise the scorpions would lose their anger along with all of their internal organs.
But it would create a recreational sport far more entertaining for onlookers than paintball.
Keep in mind these are scorpions crossbred with the Pamplona bulls to make them extra angry, and Michael Moore, so that their organs can take utterly incomprehendible damage.

Keep in mind these are scorpions crossbred with the Pamplona bulls to make them extra angry, and Michael Moore, so that their organs can take utterly incomprehendible damage.

Hmm, yes, I see now… *adds technical appendix to schematics*

Scorpions crossed with Michael Moore? What's the calibre of these weapons?

Jeez... not so much that I have anything to contribute to this, but I gotta say that this really went crazy somewhere around page 2 (I'm on 40 posts/page)... and in the time it's taken me to read every post it's increased faster than I can refresh the page....

Anyway, FNG, all I gotta say is listen, eh? And if you enjoy not being allowed to speak out, I'm sure there's a country out there other than America that's just perfect for you. Besides, I really like America as a country, I don't want to have to give it back to the Aboriginals (no offense anyone who affiliates themselves with Aboriginals or is one)!

But yeah, listen to reason FAG.

Keep in mind these are scorpions crossbred with the Pamplona bulls to make them extra angry, and Michael Moore, so that their organs can take utterly incomprehendible damage.

Crossbreed them with roaches. Nothing can kill roaches.

Pretty good sendup of conservative arguments against dissent, FAG, but you might want to slip a little something in there mocking liberals as well. Any good satire skewers both sides.

Scorpions crossed with Michael Moore? What's the calibre of these weapons?

About 2000mm.

Edit: Ha! Beat you to it, Yootopia, and I've got Jolt's kooky word for it!

Crossbreed them with roaches. Nothing can kill roaches.

Soon you will truly understand what your statement will mean to the human race! *manical laughter*

Scorpions crossed with Michael Moore? What's the calibre of these weapons?
8000mm.

They make Anzio Annie look like a peashooter.
Crossbreed them with roaches. Nothing can kill roaches.
I have yet to kill either Michael Moore or indeed a Pamplona Bull with my shoe. Roaches are a different matter :p

I've already asked him if he had ever served. No answer yet. Surprise.

Just like the people who sent the troops to Iraq, cowards who like to argue their pro-war stance but send others to die.

http://diy.despair.com/output/poster86909069.jpg
Is this treacherous Freedom?

I have yet to kill either Michael Moore or indeed a Pamplona Bull with my shoe. Roaches are a different matter :p

You don't really need to kill them, just get a blood sample.
You may need one of those needles John Travolta used on Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction for Michael Moore, though.
As for roaches, I disagree. It's already going to be a raging, cholestorol-ravaged bull-MichaelMorpion.

Actually, I only said that dissent against a democratically-elected administration's conduct of a war is traitorous. But I couldn't fit all that in the title.

Yet, your point still fails! You've already said that you agree with our founding fathers that dissent and free speech is necessary, yet you ignore it and say that anti-war dissent is traitorous.

There was even anti-war dissent among people in the united States before the American revolt even began. And, yet, our founding fathers said that all dissent and free speech is necessary to a functioning democracy. Do you mean to disagree with the founding fathers, whom you hold in such high regard?

They make Anzio Annie look like a peashooter.

Yay! :D

Yay! :D
It's not so much Anzio Annie as ANZIO ARNIE!

Oh, and nice sig, FNG. So representative of you. :rolleyes:

You don't really need to kill them, just get a blood sample.
You may need one of those needles John Travolta used on Uma Thurman in Pulp Fiction for Michael Moore, though.
As for roaches, I disagree. It's already going to be a raging, cholestorol-ravaged bull-MichaelMorpion.

.l. Or the needle that they used to get John Travolta into Hairspray.

:D

If the US were to become a nation that punishes dissent it would cease to be a country worth defending.

http://www.necroticobsession.com/bb/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Dang right! This country is founded on dissent. The Declaration of Independence was, in fact, illegal. But that doesn't make it wrong. I think FAG owes some words to Washington and Jefferson. And Jesus for that matter. Going against the establishment is what drives society to new heights, bringing greater ways of thinking to the world. Blind obedience is the opposite of Liberty. For this reason, FAG is unpatriotic. (Look out- goin' topsy-turvy all ova da place! :eek:)

Just like the people who sent the troops to Iraq, cowards who like to argue their pro-war stance but send others to die.

politicians hide themselves away
.l. Or the needle that they used to get John Travolta into Hairspray.Wasn't that a gun?

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

Sometimes I wonder if you just enjoy being controversial and don't really think these things. But if you do, I'm certain you'd make great friends with Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco.

While I am partial to many of Bush's policies, my post was completely apolitical. Its content would have been the same had Nader been managing the war. The point is that dissent in war-time is unpatriotic, not that blind party allegiance is necessary.

So maybe supreme court justices are traitors when they write dissenting opinion? This is not even a debate. If you remove the freedoms we fight for then you are a traitor to America. Soldiers die so freedom of speech can remain. You are the traitor.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/

http://www.markpilbs3dgraphics.net/TV-Dalek.jpg

O-BEY!! O-BEY!! O-BEY!!

LOL that was exactly what I was thinking.

YOU WILL O-BEY OR YOU WILL BE EX-TER-MIN-AT-ED! THE DALEK SUP-REME (aka George W. Bush) WILL NOT BE DIS-O-BEYED!

Wait a minute, weren't the entire American Revolution and the origins of our Constitution itself rooted in the Founding Fathers' dissent.

I mean, that was the ver-...OH SHIT DALEKS...I'm going to run now. These robots don't listen to my dreams like the others!

Wait a minute, weren't the entire American Revolution and the origins of our Constitution itself rooted in the Founding Fathers' dissent.

And in their treason.

Sometimes I wonder if you just enjoy being controversial and don't really think these things. But if you do, I'm certain you'd make great friends with Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco.

He certainly does think these things through--and too many posters give him just what he's looking for, which is serious attention.

And in their treason.

Hey, I have no problem with treason if they're commiting it for ends I see as right and justified.

Isn't it obvious what's going on? Freedom and Glory is (as he has been for all 818 of his posts) been using reductio ad absurdum; he is in fact extremely left-wing and simply enjoys making such ridiculous threads as this to see whom he can tempt into yelling at him.

Isn't it obvious what's going on? Freedom and Glory is (as he has been for all 818 of his posts) been using reductio ad absurdum; he is in fact extremely left-wing and simply enjoys making such ridiculous threads as this to see whom he can tempt into yelling at him.

OR!
He is a respected forumgoer who realized we need some hardline rightwinger to counter our massive leftwing player base, so our debates are more varied and don't turn into Liberal vs. Libertarian.

Isn't it obvious what's going on? Freedom and Glory is (as he has been for all 818 of his posts) been using reductio ad absurdum; he is in fact extremely left-wing and simply enjoys making such ridiculous threads as this to see whom he can tempt into yelling at him.

Dude--don't even try to pawn his sorry ass off on our side.

And in their treason.
So then:
Yes, by protesting against how things are currently being done, we are committing treason. But is treason such a bad thing? For example, England's queen(king?) paid ships to go and pillage other nations' ships; as you know, these were the fabled pirates (I'm personally pro-ninja, but anyway) of old. Hell, a(some) pirate(s) was(were) even knighted.

One of the most infuriating messages......
Is the utter bullshit that you have posted here. I would take it apart line by line but that would take too much time.

So then:
Yes, by protesting against how things are currently being done, we are committing treason. But is treason such a bad thing? For example, England's queen(king?) paid ships to go and pillage other nations' ships; as you know, these were the fabled pirates (I'm personally pro-ninja, but anyway) of old. Hell, a(some) pirate(s) was(were) even knighted.

Protest=/=treason. Armed insurrection=treason. There are cases where armed insurrection/treason can be justified, though the justification usually only occurs if the insurrection is successful. But while insurrection can be looked at as a form of protest, not all protest is insurrection.

Oh, and nice sig, FNG. So representative of you. :rolleyes:
And the best part is, he took it completely out of its original context. *sighs* And if I squawk about its usage, we all know we'd hear about freedom of expression being all sacred and shit.

Freedom is like a fuel mix, with gasoline being restriction, the engine being society or the subject of freedom, and air being freedom. Too much gasoline and you will lose performance, even if your engine remains intact. Too much air and, while you will get more performance as you lean the fuel mix, the higher chance of overheating (which would subsequently cause damage to the engine). Yes, I realize this is entirely unnecessary this analogy is.
Plus, freedom contradicts itself. If I'm free to kill somebody, I'm restricting that other person's freedom to life. An example is that right now the US has the freedom to be waging its war in Iraq, restricting everybody down there's freedom to life.
There is a perfect balance out there- it's just that many of those with more freedom than they should be allowed do not want to give up their extra freedoms to benefit those with too little freedoms to force this policy of balance upon the more fortunate.

*pulls in deckchair and grabs popcorn*

Another FAG original. They're absolute classics.

I thought he was gone I had not seen his brand of bullshit in a bit

OR!
He is a respected forumgoer who realized we need some hardline rightwinger to counter our massive leftwing player base, so our debates are more varied and don't turn into Liberal vs. Libertarian.

A respected forumgoer would realize that the overboard rightwing stance does not "add" to this board anything constructive

They should know that a moderate rightwinger would be much more effective and add more to the forum then any hard line stance would... they would get discussion then of a much higher caliber

You know, I'm a big believer in the all-consuming power of human stupidity, but even I have to say that I'm pretty sure no one is this stupid. My pet theory is that he's politically apathetic and just loves the attention.

As the death toll of the US forces in Iraq mounted, so too did the disaffection of the American people -- that tells us something.:p


Fixed:D

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike)

Right about there is where I stopped paying attention.

2.2/10 - Find something better to do with your time...I'm sure you can think of something.

As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.


This tells me that the government should have indeed heeded its people's words.

if anything, it is patriotism that is treason. to all of humanity and every other living thing.

even to those who live in that country which surrounds me also, that considers itself god's gift to the universe.

=^^=
.../\...

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

trolling for teh lulz

One of the most infuriating messages which I have seen ubiquitously splashed about on bumper stickers is the following: "dissent IS patriotic," or some other variant thereof. Under the current circumstances with which we are faced (namely, the terrible specter of Islamo-fascism, silently hovering above us and patiently awaiting a chance to strike), the statement should read: "dissent IS traitorous."

Perhaps you recall the elementary school rhyme: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me." Unfortunately, when applied to the modern conditions, this is patently false. Not only can words hurt, but they can kill. Speeches decrying the war in Iraq are deadly, fatal to our just cause and injurious to the American people.

Enemy combatants employ many techniques to wound our troops. Some use rifles, others use IEDs; some use machine guns, others use grenade launchers. However, the most maleficent foes take advantage of a more subtle, far-reaching, and corrosive method: anti-war commentary. They sabotage the American nation stealthily, slowly poisoning those who are oblivious to their vile intent. They spew treacherous pronouncements with impunity. The morale of our troops ebbs as they are subjected to this constant, unceasing onslaught of pessimistic outlooks, bleak prognoses, and biased reports.

The constant barrage of slanted media commentary imbues our troops with the notion that they are fighting in vain: that the cause is lost and their mission is meaningless. Perhaps unsurprisingly, many are neglecting to endeavor in performing their duties to their utmost capacity; as a result, the enemy is strengthened and more American troops die. The security of the mainland US cannot be guaranteed if the only thing standing between us and another 9/11 is a line composed of disgruntled and disillusioned soldiers, continuously tormented and harried by the barbaric media.

But the media isn't the only wrongdoer here; all those who speak out against the war are giving succor to the enemy. They are actively contributing to the climate of hostility towards our mission in Iraq which currently exists; thus, they are allowing the media to air their disturbing coverage of the war in Iraq. They are even tainting those who previously supported the war with their insidious message of despair and gloom. Our troops need a stable platform on the home front if they are to persist in heroically carrying out their noble duty, yet this very platform is being chipped away at by those who condemn the war, and the soldiers are suffering. They're dying and the American populace does not appreciate their effort -- they're saying that despite the tireless work of American forces, Iraq is ruined, destroyed, desolate, irrevocably damaged.

If you insult the way the war is being handled, you might as well be taking up arms against the American forces yourself. Now, I'm not saying that the war has been handled well -- that's not the point. The fact of the matter is that whether or not the war has been smoothly and properly executed, saying that the war is a failure, that American troops should withdraw, or that the commanders are misjudging the situation imperils troop morale and the lives of American soldiers. As the disaffection of the American people mounted, so too did the death toll of the US forces in Iraq -- that tells us something.

I find it despicable that the very men and women who are so busily engaged in bedeviling US forces claim to be patriots. Those who are contributing to the deaths of our soldiers say that they love their country. No, they are not patriots, but rather in a league with the insurgents and bin Laden.

Thank you for your ongoing work in undermining the single greatest American right, that of freedom of expression and freedom to dissent. This very freedom is one of many that our troops fight to maintain, yet you, well meaning as you may be, are undermining them by saying that this is not a right they should fight for.

Last time I looked America was still a democracy. Its policies do revolve around what the voters think.

This country hasn't been a democracy in at least 6 years.

Also, to F&G, how do you manage to be so consistently pedantic? Do you not realize how you sound to others? Here's a debate tip: merely stating the same hypothesis over and over without anything to back it up does not prove that hypothesis. Calling into question the patriotism of any who disagree with you does not prove the hypothesis. Your air of smug superiority does not prove the hypothesis. You have become nothing but a joke and a parody around here. Perhaps you should change your tactics.

You know, I'm a big believer in the all-consuming power of human stupidity, but even I have to say that I'm pretty sure no one is this stupid. My pet theory is that he's politically apathetic and just loves the attention.

I agree. He's espoused a number of beliefs that seem calculated to offend the largest majority of Generalites possible. Still, as a troll he's less fun than others we've had in the past.

I'm quite patriotic and want what's best for this country and that's why I cannot support a war that never should have happened. Anything unjustified that makes people die is wrong and it is a very sad day in history when people will actually argue otherwise.

I think what FAG fails to even realize, along with many of the right-wingers out there and that 23% that still support our "President", is that we are not even at war.

Technically, America has not been at war since the end of World War II. War has not been declared by Congress since that period (which is another thing FAG misses, is that ONLY Congress has the right to declare war). Korea, a conflict. Vietnam, a conflict. All our petty little dealings in Central and South America, conflicts. In Africa? Conflicts. Desert Shield/Storm? Congress still never declared war.

And Congress still hasn't declared war for the "War" on Terrorism. So, all this talk of "war-time dissent" is unfounded, seeing as how we aren't even at war.

And don't even get me started on how you can't fight terror at all (since it's a feeling) and also how you can't fight terror while funding and causing terror, and how the US could be considered terrorists themselves by the very definition of the word.

Oh, and I live in NY, so don't even begin to tell me I don't love my country.

And the people have the right to express their opinions via elections. However, their dissatisfaction should not manifest itself as open dissent against the administration's policies during a time of war

Actually, the First Amendment that you like having diarrhea over gives me the right to do both.

You know, I'm a big believer in the all-consuming power of human stupidity, but even I have to say that I'm pretty sure no one is this stupid. My pet theory is that he's politically apathetic and just loves the attention.

Mine too. His name should be "TakingThePiss."

I agree. He's espoused a number of beliefs that seem calculated to offend the largest majority of Generalites possible. Still, as a troll he's less fun than others we've had in the past.

I think it's more that his act has gotten old. You can only tell the same joke so many times--FreedomAndGlory is the Joe Piscopo of NSG.

Freedom your OP makes no sense, how does people having anti-war opinions damage the war effort, keeping in mind that most of them aren't really saying it publicly until they are polled, and even then how is it that saying they oppose or support the war to a pollster a treacherous act, isn't it just answering a question and giving your opinion, if this is a treasonous act I am quite amazed then. Even if your talking about the Democrats in Congress or public figures saying publicly the war is wrong, how does that make US soldiers who may hear it on the news or whatever less effective in combat, do they instantly loose heart when people voice an opinion and just let themselves be killed in combat? That makes absolutely no sense, you'd think US marines have a ld 5 like imperial guardsmen or something:)

I think it's more that his act has gotten old. You can only tell the same joke so many times--FreedomAndGlory is the Joe Piscopo of NSG.

You think he'd take notes from the premier Busheviks of NSG for how to troll.

I would ask why F&G has such a low opinion of our troops. He obviously thinks they are rather fragile wnd weak-willed if he thinks knowing there is dissent would make them unabled to carry out their duties. Does he really think that some soldier is curled up in the fetal position because a majority of people in this country think he should not have been sent over there to be shot at?

Hah, nice that Andaras showed up. He and FAG are worth each other; they're kinda like opposite sides of the same coin (although AP is less likely to be a trolling puppet, as he seems to also have other interests than preaching). :)

I think it's more that his act has gotten old. You can only tell the same joke so many times--FreedomAndGlory is the Joe Piscopo of NSG.

I dare say MTAE was more fun. At least he was original.

I can't point to a particular soldier and say that his death was due to media-induced demoralization. However, when taken as a aggregate quantity, several casualties were incurred due to substandard performance. The catalyst for this failure was, in some cases, the loss of heart.

So no. You have no proof. Not one shred.

You argued that because dissent could demoralize troops leading to their deaths, therefore dissent is unpatriotic "in a time of war." You spent a lot of words making that case, but that is essentially your case.

Well, that debate is over. It's done. You just conceded.

Let's have a look at your interlocutor's reply:

If you can't do that...

...then you cannot claim this. At least not without admitting that you're shamelessly exploiting soldiers' deaths to wave the flag and try to squelch opinions you don't like.

Squalor which is largely our creation.

Which is most easily done with bombs and bullets. Can you name any time in history where democracy was imposed on any nation by force from outside it where it actually worked? No. No you can't. Nobody can. Fail.

This post is so contorted with cognitive dissonance I'm surprised you haven't got carpal-tunnel or arthritis. You actually use the word "crusade" in context with a Middle-Eastern war? And in the same sentence chide those WE INVADED (supposedly out of Christian concern?) for being sectarian? That settles it. You're not in any way a person who believes this stuff. You're a troll performance artist in Greenwich Village with long hair and pack of clove ciggies, drawing NEA funds for these posts.

Frank Burns. I swear. See, I don't have to question it when the troops returning home and talking to journalists are doing it for me. I suspected something was wrong, they confirm it for me interview by interview.

And your reply to that ?

Nothing. Zip. Nullo.

That's a concession. Dissent against the war does not kill, nor contribute to the killing, of US troops. The thesis of the OP fails.

Perhaps the people who are "too chicken" to shut me up recognize that free speech is a fundamental right for which our founding fathers strived and they, unlike you, respect everyone's right to their own opinion, no matter how much they might disagree with it. You, unfortunately, are not as high-minded as the other people on this forum who exemplify the virtues for which our founding fathers worked.

There, everybody. FreedomAndGory really DID concede the point. Fundamental rights cannot be abridged. No ifs, no buts.

Sure, it would be nice is he/she would just say "I was wrong" but that's a lot to ask on NSG.

What would be even nicer is if he/she doesn't come back and do it all again.

No. Just because free speech is a fundamental right does not imply that its employment cannot be traitorous.

Oh dear. FreedomAndGory has forgotten that he conceded. Already.

If you bothered to read my original post, you would have realized that I stated that the enemy who detracts most from our war effort is not the insurgent, but he who spews anti-war propaganda. Conversely, he who contributes most to our war effort is not the soldier, but he who advocates a pro-war stance. Although I am certain that our men and women in uniform are much more crucial to the war effort than I, I feel that my service can best be rendered thusly and not by joining the army.

You cannot even debate with integrity or any degree of honesty.
I believe you really just do this to attract attention, in the form of hostility.

I can't see you being much of an asset to your country as a soldier, frankly.

*snip*
I can't see [FAG] being much of an asset to your country as a soldier, frankly.

Dud grenade detector?

Anyone else getting sick of FAG's 'drive-by shooting' threads?

I dare say MTAE was more fun. At least he was original.

MeansToAnEnd, from what I've read of his topics, was "fun" due to his incessant posting of preposterous ideas and ridiculous schemes. They bore no semblance to reality; not even the most gossamer ties connected them to real life. But, because of that, they were "fun."

I, on the other hand, am not trying to be original. Many people have previously espoused my viewpoints. I am not trying to be "fun." I am trying to communicate my stance on war-time dissent effectively and clearly.

Anyway, most of the threads on this board repeat in a one-month cycle, so you can't really claim that "originality" is even remotely attained on this forum.

I would ask why F&G has such a low opinion of our troops. He obviously thinks they are rather fragile wnd weak-willed if he thinks knowing there is dissent would make them unabled to carry out their duties. Does he really think that some soldier is curled up in the fetal position because a majority of people in this country think he should not have been sent over there to be shot at?

Sadly, you're using a straw-man argument in an attempt to enhance a valid point. Did I ever suggest that American soldiers would curl up in the fetal position as a reaction to dissent? No. I simply stated that some would no longer perform their duties to their utmost capacity. Common sense dictates this. Let me ask you the inverse of my thesis: do you believe that a man who devoutly believes in a cause will more staunchly fight for it than a man who does not? If so, then it follows that as confidence in the war drops, so too does the effort expended by our troops decrease.

...I'm certain you'd make great friends with Benito Mussolini and Francisco Franco.

I love the way you cleverly avoided invoking Godwin's Law by saying Franco instead of Hitler.

Patriotism is for chumps.