NationStates Jolt Archive

Serious discussion. LULZ permitted:

Which is bigger? The Internet or the Universe?

Does myspace count?

Universe

The internet by definition and design is a physical and real invention that is completely contained within the universe both in physical size and information.

The Universe because the Universe doesn't rely on an finite source to keep running, the Internet does.

Does myspace count?

LULZ accepted.

John Smeaton.

It depends what you measure. If you measure distance than the universe is bigger. If you measure stupidity then it's a whole different matter ;)

It depends what you measure. If you measure distance than the universe is bigger. If you measure stupidity then it's a whole different matter ;)

The Universe contains the stupid people, no?

The Universe contains the stupid people, no?

No no no. Stupidity is a whole different dimension existing outside of the universe :)

No no no. Stupidity is a whole different dimension existing outside of the universe :)

In a place called...

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/ea/Im-in-sparta.jpg

Nevermind.

Well, seeing as the internet is within the universe...

LULZ...our universe is the internet of some higher alien beings...I bet Earth is like their WoW

LULZ...our universe is the internet of some higher alien beings...I bet Earth is like their WoW

I hope that whoever is playing me will continue paying subscription fees then *nod*

LULZ...our universe is the internet of some higher alien beings...I bet Earth is like their WoW

One day, this will be seen as the truth that it is *nod*

Well, seeing as the internet is within the universe...
It took ten posts for someone to state the obvious. For shame NSG. Cudos to Dinaverg for having a brain.

It took ten posts for someone to state the obvious. For shame NSG. Cudos to Dinaverg for having a brain.

Almost all the posts weren't serious anyways.

It took ten posts for someone to state the obvious. For shame NSG. Cudos to Dinaverg for having a brain.

Cudos...that's like a candy bar or something, right?

This thread was actually a device for *insert insidiousness here*.

Figures.

Serious discussion. LULZ permitted:

Which is bigger? The Internet or the Universe?

If you want to determine which is "bigger", you have to define a mathematical function, namely a measure (q.v.), so that such measure can be evaluated on both objects. Then, the object whose measure (it is a real number) is greater, is the bigger one.

Anyway, we can solve this in abstracto, without defining this measure.

The physical layer of Internet is a proper subset of the Universe (that is, non-void and not the whole Universe). If we assume that the Universe is finite (or, more significantly, that the number of particles in the Universe is finite), then the physical layer of the Internet is also finite, and necessarily "smaller" than the whole Universe (it has a lesser cardinality).

Since we are comparing the actual, not the future Internet to the actual, not the future Universe, it is quite a safe assumption to assume the finiteness of the Universe at the present time.

The non-physical layer of the Internet can be compared to the physical Universe only if we remember that the non-physical (information) layer of the Internet exists only if the physical layer exists, because every single bit of information must be represented and stored in a physical system (the smaller system imaginable is an electron, storing information with its spin state). Since an electron has a finite volume, again, we have that the Internet, even in its information layer, must be entirely enclosed in the Universe, and it is represented by a proper subset thereof. Hence, the Internet is entirely encloed in the Universe.

The theory of measure (q.v.) states that the measure of a proper subset A of finite set B must be smaller than the measure of set B. Hence, the Internet is smaller than the Universe.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.:D

Well, seeing as the internet is within the universe...

Damn, beat me to it.

The non-physical layer of the Internet can be compared to the physical Universe only if we remember that the non-physical (information) layer of the Internet exists only if the physical layer exists, because every single bit of information must be represented and stored in a physical system (the smaller system imaginable is an electron, storing information with its spin state). Since an electron has a finite volume, again, we have that the Internet, even in its information layer, must be entirely enclosed in the Universe, and it is represented by a proper subset thereof. Hence, the Internet is entirely encloed in the Universe.

The matter storing that information is more complicated than the information anyway. Sort of like how it's impossible to write 1 googolplex in full because not only it there supposedly less than 1 googol particles in the universe, our method of writing uses more than one particle per digit.

The matter storing that information is more complicated than the information anyway. Sort of like how it's impossible to write 1 googolplex in full because not only it there supposedly less than 1 googol particles in the universe, our method of writing uses more than one particle per digit.

Exactly: we could say that the bit/particle ratio is ALWAYS LESS THAN ONE.

My, we even managed looking serious. ...nerdage...

Isn't there a theoretical maximum amount of data storage in the universe? It was limited by the Plank length if I remember correctly. As the universe is expanding, so is the maximum storage.

Anyway, the universe makes the Internet look puny.

Which universe?

I also believe the internet to be within the greater category of the Universe. Just a guess, though, really. :p

I also believe the internet to be within the greater category of the Universe. Just a guess, though, really. :p

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/bandofclowns.gif

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/TheSteveslols/bandofclowns.gif

Wuh? :p

Heh. Someone's gotta re-do all Spielberg's movies like that. :p

John Smeaton.

He'll set aboot ye.