NationStates Jolt Archive

So the Iraqi Parliment is taking August off because as Mr. Snow pointed out, it's going to be 130 degrees in Baghdad in August. Meanwhile troops on foot patrol carrying upwards of 60-80 pounds of gear will be outside quelling the clusterF that is Iraq. All of this when congress is set to get their full report in September. So they're taking all of August off and we've already received our first F in July. So that leaves them a whole...how the f is success even a possibility. Anyone else find this to be one of the most arrogant and idiotic statements of Snow's dismal career. Is the Bush administration even trying to make this thing work anymore? Or is this another big middle finger to our country and our troops? WTF isn't even the beginning of the explanation of this.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070713-5.html

What report? Which country? Whose troops?

What's an "F"? Is is the same as an "f"?

What are you on about?

What report? Which country? Whose troops?

What's an "F"? Is is the same as an "f"?

What are you on about?

Report: We've made slight progress on only 8 out of 18 benchmarks set forth by congress.

Coalition troops to be read 98% American troops

An F=failure

I'm on about Tony Snow stating it's too hot for legislators to sit inside and make political progress but not for troops to walk the streets outdoors. Are these answers sufficient?

So the Iraqi Parliment is taking August off because as Mr. Snow pointed out, it's going to be 130 degrees in Baghdad in August. Meanwhile troops on foot patrol carrying upwards of 60-80 pounds of gear will be outside quelling the clusterF that is Iraq. All of this when congress is set to get their full report in September. So they're taking all of August off and we've already received our first F in July. So that leaves them a whole...how the f is success even a possibility. Anyone else find this to be one of the most arrogant and idiotic statements of Snow's dismal career. Is the Bush administration even trying to make this thing work anymore? Or is this another big middle finger to our country and our troops? WTF isn't even the beginning of the explanation of this.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/07/20070713-5.html
Sounds like a SNOW job to me!! :D

Hey, the Iraqi Prime Minister said we can pull out anytime we want to, so let's take him up on it.

Did someone just watch the Daily Show? :confused:

Did someone just watch the Daily Show? :confused:

No, I read an article this morning and had to wait to get home from work to post it here. I'll have to use my DVR and watch the daily show now that you mentioned it.

No, I'm not kidding you. Its really hot there and if the government is forced to work they may get heat stroke and die. And then who would run the country? Think about it.

Sounds like a SNOW job to me!! :D

Someone had to say it. :p Although I kinda like Tony Snow anyway. ;)

As to 130 degree heat, I suppose it could delay the Iraqi legislators from meeting. The troops endure it, but if their leaders are anything like ours (read: average age of 75, and obese), I could see how they'd have some difficulty attending. ;)

Its really hot there and if the government is forced to work they may get heat stroke and die.

Heat stroke? If those men can't handle a little heat, indoors, with at least fairly good AC, then they don't deserve to represent the suffering peoples of their nation.

A little heat never hurt anybody and I'm proud of our troops for dealing with some of the air-headed government, here and in Iraq.

Heat stroke? If those men can't handle a little heat, indoors, with at least fairly good AC, then they don't deserve to represent the suffering peoples of their nation.

A little heat never hurt anybody and I'm proud of our troops for dealing with some of the air-headed government, here and in Iraq.

How do we know they have good AC though? They may just have a guy in a corner frantically waving a fan.

How do we know they have good AC though? They may just have a guy in a corner frantically waving a fan.

Dude, I know this is a joke, but could we move away from the stereotype that Iraqis are a bunch of backwoods tribesmen living in the goddamn stone age? Before the first Gulf War, Iraq was the Middle East's leader in people with college educations, including women. Make that, especially women.

Tony Snow just roundhouse kicked reality square in the face.

Dude, I know this is a joke, but could we move away from the stereotype that Iraqis are a bunch of backwoods tribesmen living in the goddamn stone age? Before the first Gulf War, Iraq was the Middle East's leader in people with college educations, including women. Make that, especially women.

Yes but you are forgetting that the country is a war zone, so while they may have good AC, and I'm sure they do espically if one of the government center used to belong to Saddam, but they may not have the juice for it because well, suicide bombers blew out a power line pole.

Also, yes it was a joke, no I don't really think that Iraqis are stone throwing caveman, learn to take a joke Nazz. Seriously.

Tony Snow just roundhouse kicked reality square in the face.

Somebody had to do it, and Chuck Norris had the day off.

Yes but you are forgetting that the country is a war zone, so while they may have good AC, and I'm sure they do espically if one of the government center used to belong to Saddam, but they may not have the juice for it because well, suicide bombers blew out a power line pole.

Also, yes it was a joke, no I don't really think that Iraqis are stone throwing caveman, learn to take a joke Nazz. Seriously.Read some Orwell, kid, especially his essays from his time in Burma and Marrakech, and maybe you'll understand why those sorts of jokes really aren't funny.

How do we know they have good AC though? They may just have a guy in a corner frantically waving a fan.

At least they should have portable crappy ACs in each window. All I'm saying is that there are too many important things going on for them to just sit around for a month. They could at least change the place of there meetings, if they really do have no AC.

In the middle of the 1700's the US congress always met, it may not of been as hot, but with those wigs and multi-layered suits, it must of been rough. They may not of liked it, but they got everything that needed to be done.

Read some Orwell, kid, especially his essays from his time in Burma and Marrakech, and maybe you'll understand why those sorts of jokes really aren't funny.

They're aren't funny to people who people who forget that life is too short to take everything seriously and that you need to laugh every once in awhile. I mean hell I laugh at myself every morning when I look into the mirror. :p

At least they should have portable crappy ACs in each window. All I'm saying is that there are too many important things going on for them to just sit around for a month. They could at least change the place of there meetings, if they really do have no AC.

In the middle of the 1700's the US congress always met, it may not of been as hot, but with those wigs and multi-layered suits, it must of been rough. They may not of liked it, but they got everything that needed to be done.

Portable AC still needs electricity

You may not have noticed but it isn't 1700's US it's modern day Iraq you were talking about

They're aren't funny to people who people who forget that life is too short to take everything seriously and that you need to laugh every once in awhile. I mean hell I laugh at myself every morning when I look into the mirror. :pDude--I just posted a thread about some idiots who doused their kid in olive oil in order to get the demons out of her, and I closed the OP with a joke. I forget to laugh once in a while?

Portable AC still needs electricity

You may not have noticed but it isn't 1700's US it's modern day Iraq you were talking about

They aren't that bad off that they doesn't have any electricity at all. I'm just giving an example...and relating it to the Iraqis that should be able to do there job. You ever heard of analogies?

Hey Nazz, could you recommend any specific essays from Orwell? I've heard of him before, but never got into anything of his.

Dude--I just posted a thread about some idiots who doused their kid in olive oil in order to get the demons out of her, and I closed the OP with a joke. I forget to laugh once in a while?

Fair enough.

So when the military tells the 100 or so families why their sons died in August, they can say 'To give the parliament some R&R'.

who put sand in your virgina today?
Today? I'm fairly humorless when it comes to jokes about Iraq. That ought to be pretty clear by now.

I wonder where there planning on going this August?

Read some Orwell, kid, especially his essays from his time in Burma and Marrakech, and maybe you'll understand why those sorts of jokes really aren't funny.

who put sand in your virgina today?

Tony Snow just roundhouse kicked reality square in the face.

Less a "roundhouse kick", more a "face-humping bat" impression.

Seems to me that sticking a bunch of bickering politicians in a sweltering room with no air conditioning until they come up with a plan is a great way to encourage compromise. :)

Seems to me that sticking a bunch of bickering politicians in a sweltering room with no air conditioning until they come up with a plan is a great way to encourage compromise. :)

The bottom line is that it is up to the Iraqis to come to terms with their newfound power and make the critical decisions needed to ensure some sort of order in their country. The brave men and women of our armed forces can do it with gear and weapons outdoors, but they can't handle it indoors? At this rate the September report will be a dismal failure and even those who cautiously remained loyal to W will be calling for redeployments pronto. Perhaps Bush is just waiting to be forced to draw down troop levels so it can look like he stood his ground and was forced by congress to do so. If that's the case then so be it. Whatever it takes to get brave men and women out of theater and back to their families is all right with me. It is way past time for the Iraqis to "stand up as we stand down."

Portable AC still needs electricity

You may not have noticed but it isn't 1700's US it's modern day Iraq you were talking about
They aren't that bad off that they doesn't have any electricity at all. I'm just giving an example...and relating it to the Iraqis that should be able to do there job. You ever heard of analogies?

Thanks to the US's wonderful handling of the situation, modern day Baghdad has electricity on for approximately 2 hours per day, on average. However, I would assume that the main offices of the government could be provided with generators to run AC off of.

But that's not the point. The OP is the point, and makes the point - Tony Snow's idiotic comment effectively tells US troops (and their families) that they are worthless crap who can be left to keep fighting and dying while the people they are supposed to be supporting take a vacation because the heat is a bit much for them.

If I had my way, Tony Snow would be instantly transported - in his underwear - to the toughest spot in Iraq and left there, with not so much as a personal fan to ease the heat. But then, I'd do that with the whole Bush administration, and not just for this latest faux pas.

I wonder where there planning on going this August?
Apparently not home since it would obviously be really hot there. Maybe they are taking at trip to Germany.

This is crap.
Snow: "We refuse to make any decisions on Iraq until the September report regardless of the Iraqis miserably failing every bench mark we have set for them so far."
Reporter: "Wouldn't the report be exactly the same in September as July if they are taking the whole month off?"
Snow: "No, that is ridiculous. I have no idea where you got that information. They will progress throughout August despite not doing anything at all."

*ff to September*
Snow: "We refuse to make any decision on Iraq and abandon our good, hard-working Iraqi pals in government until the next report in say... January."

Thanks to the US's wonderful handling of the situation, modern day Baghdad has electricity on for approximately 2 hours per day, on average. However, I would assume that the main offices of the government could be provided with generators to run AC off of.

But that's not the point. The OP is the point, and makes the point - Tony Snow's idiotic comment effectively tells US troops (and their families) that they are worthless crap who can be left to keep fighting and dying while the people they are supposed to be supporting take a vacation because the heat is a bit much for them.

If I had my way, Tony Snow would be instantly transported - in his underwear - to the toughest spot in Iraq and left there, with not so much as a personal fan to ease the heat. But then, I'd do that with the whole Bush administration, and not just for this latest faux pas.

Thank you for redirecting the conversation back to the original point I made. By this the administration are not verbally saying "you're cheap, expendable, and cannon fodder" to the troops but essentially that is what they are saying. Forming a new government is hard work that requires persistence, patience, and a strong will to succeed. What message are the lawmakers sending by taking the month off? Tony Snow has basically given the middle finger to every military member and their family telling them it's all right for them to die in the heat while the Iraqis take a break. The troops have to muddle on during August so why not the legislature?

I read the transcript and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Why bitch now?

Thank you for redirecting the conversation back to the original point I made. By this the administration are not verbally saying "you're cheap, expendable, and cannon fodder" to the troops but essentially that is what they are saying. Forming a new government is hard work that requires persistence, patience, and a strong will to succeed. What message are the lawmakers sending by taking the month off? Tony Snow has basically given the middle finger to every military member and their family telling them it's all right for them to die in the heat while the Iraqis take a break. The troops have to muddle on during August so why not the legislature?
I agree. Also, if I had my way again, the US Congress and President would not be allowed to take a vacation as long as the war is going on, either. If the citizens are dying so the leaders can work, then the leaders better damned well get to work.

I read the transcript and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Why bitch now?

Because it's Tony Snow. It wouldn't matter what he said.

Because it's Tony Snow. It wouldn't matter what he said.

Especially when he is being full of shit.

Especially when he is being full of shit.

That's two things that amaze me:

1. Pantless reads foxnews online (and maybe even watches it).

I don't.

2. Pantless listens to Tony Snow.

I don't.

why do i have to be the one to remind everyone that tony snow isnt the boss of the iraqi government? all he does is try to put a good face on bad news. yeah it makes him sound like a dick but thats his job eh?

if the iraqi government feels the need to take august off, isnt that their right to decide? even if we disagree with it, its their decision to make, not ours.

why do i have to be the one to remind everyone that tony snow isnt the boss of the iraqi government? all he does is try to put a good face on bad news. yeah it makes him sound like a dick but thats his job eh?

if the iraqi government feels the need to take august off, isnt that their right to decide? even if we disagree with it, its their decision to make, not ours.

Well, if there were a Democrat in the White House, I'm sure that the President would be telling the Iraqi government when to wipe their asses.

That's two things that amaze me:

1. Pantless reads foxnews online (and maybe even watches it).

I don't.

2. Pantless listens to Tony Snow.

I don't.

He never answers questions directly anyway.

Well, if there were a Democrat in the White House, I'm sure that the President would be telling the Iraqi government when to wipe their asses.

they very well might be but the iraqis would still be wiping on their own schedule.

That's two things that amaze me:

1. Pantless reads foxnews online (and maybe even watches it).

I don't.
1) *insert flame*. If you didn't have your head located in a dark orifice, you would have seen me say it was linked from Major Geeks.
2) Of course reading the news part of FOX News would be far too fact checked for you. You scour the internets for hard-rightwing editorials to plagiarize and recite as gospel.


2. Pantless listens to Tony Snow.

I don't.
You don't have to listen to Tony Snow to know he is full of bullshit. All the people mocking him, ie Jon Stewart, and topics like this make it self-evident.

they very well might be but the iraqis would still be wiping on their own schedule.

True, but that's not the story we would get over here. I'm sure we would get fanciful tales of on-schedule ass-wiping.

1) *insert flame*. If you didn't have your head located in a dark orifice, you would have seen me say it was linked from Major Geeks.
2) Of course reading the news part of FOX News would be far too fact checked for you. You scour the internets for hard-rightwing editorials to plagiarize and recite as gospel.

You don't have to listen to Tony Snow to know he is full of bullshit. All the people mocking him, ie Jon Stewart, and topics like this make it self-evident.

Ah, so Jon Stewart is the fount of facts? He's said on TV more than once that if you're taking him seriously, you're an idiot.

So that makes you...

True, but that's not the story we would get over here. I'm sure we would get fanciful tales of on-schedule ass-wiping.

of course we would

the job of the presidents press secretary is to put a good face on the news. it doesnt matter if its a republican or a democratic president.

and that was my point.

tony snow doesnt make the news, he just spins it.

Ah, so Jon Stewart is the fount of facts? He's said on TV more than once that if you're taking him seriously, you're an idiot.

So that makes you...
He is the fountain of showing politicians being full of shit, which I had assumed was the point of your blathering.

of course we would

the job of the presidents press secretary is to put a good face on the news. it doesnt matter if its a republican or a democratic president.

and that was my point.

tony snow doesnt make the news, he just spins it.

Yeah, I thought that was the job qualification:

"So, let me see you spin"

*tony pirouettes in place, drilling a hole in the floor*

Because it's Tony Snow. It wouldn't matter what he said.

This is not necessarily a referendum on Tony Snow because he's just a mouthpiece like the rest. The main concern I have here is that troops can die in this heat but lawmakers cannot meet. Do you get the disconnect?

Yeah, I thought that was the job qualification:

"So, let me see you spin"

*tony pirouettes in place, drilling a hole in the floor*

the problem with tony snow is that he is a very smart man.

when he floats some complete bullshit he tries hard to make it work but that only emphasizes that its bullshit. then we get pissed that he is lying to us.

the last guy wasnt as smart or as smooth. when he floated bullshit, everyone knew it was but wasnt offended by the lame way he presented it. for all WE knew, he might have believed it.

why do i have to be the one to remind everyone that tony snow isnt the boss of the iraqi government? all he does is try to put a good face on bad news. yeah it makes him sound like a dick but thats his job eh?

if the iraqi government feels the need to take august off, isnt that their right to decide? even if we disagree with it, its their decision to make, not ours.

Right, so our fish (troops) get to swim around in the barrel while they take time off. You're right, it seems perfectly logical.

Right, so our fish (troops) get to swim around in the barrel while they take time off. You're right, it seems perfectly logical.

so?

what does one have to do with the other?

are YOU taking time in the air conditioning while our troops swelter in 130 degree heat? of course you are, your circumstances have nothing to do with theirs.

the iraqi government is completely seperate from the army occupying their country.

they didnt even invite us in.

why should they skip summer vacation because our troops have to serve no matter if they take vacation or not?

Right, so our fish (troops) get to swim around in the barrel while they take time off. You're right, it seems perfectly logical.

Ah, so in your mind, Iraq is not a sovereign nation, but in your view, just the 51st state of the United States...

Obviously, you were never in the military. You stay there while the powers that be do their political dance.

It's called civilian control of the military. You get sent somewhere, even if you aren't the proper tool for the mission, and you stay there until they get tired of it, or you get the job done, and make do with whatever they gave you to do it.

The obvious solution to this would have been to have a military governor of Iraq until such time as the insurgency was over (or leave right after we topple Saddam, or never go there in the first place). That way, we could tell everyone where to get on and get off the bus.

But the civilians over here didn't do it that way. They thought, for some reason, that letting the Iraqis elect their own government and write their own Constitution was of some value.

I find it interesting that while the US seemed to be fine with (and the soldiers fine with) fighting the Cold War for decades, with a LOT of standing around in remote places of the world for entire military careers (and in some cases, getting killed even when no war was on).

Tell you what - I think that the US should change ITS Constitution - and that we should never go to any conflict, or deploy any troops outside the US borders, without a national referendum - and if the majority of Americans don't want us to station troops in Haiti, or they don't want us to patrol the South China Sea, or they don't want us invading Iraq - then we don't do it.

And that way, the people will have spoken - and no Congressman, Senator, or President need take the blame for deploying or not deploying troops anywhere.

why do i have to be the one to remind everyone that tony snow isnt the boss of the iraqi government? all he does is try to put a good face on bad news. yeah it makes him sound like a dick but thats his job eh?

if the iraqi government feels the need to take august off, isnt that their right to decide? even if we disagree with it, its their decision to make, not ours.

Isn't our own Congress taking most of the summer off?

Report: We've made slight progress on only 8 out of 18 benchmarks set forth by congress.

Coalition troops to be read 98% American troops

An F=failure

I'm on about Tony Snow stating it's too hot for legislators to sit inside and make political progress but not for troops to walk the streets outdoors. Are these answers sufficient?

Tell me; do army recruits enlist envisaging a life in the lap of luxury? Soldiers have a difficult job, if they don't like, they ought not to have enlisted.

Isn't our own Congress taking most of the summer off?

i assume so.

maybe some of them will go on a fact finding mission to iraq and stand in the hot sun for half an hour.

Isn't our own Congress taking most of the summer off?

Congress traditionally takes a lot of time off.

And even when they're supposed to be in session, a lot of them are off "fact finding" or "fundraising" or "killing the intern they had sex with so the wife won't find out they like sex wearing a head to toe red rubber suit".

Isn't our own Congress taking most of the summer off?

Yeah but they are doing it because they are lazy assholes, not because "it's hot outside."

Congress traditionally takes a lot of time off.

And even when they're supposed to be in session, a lot of them are off "fact finding" or "fundraising" or "killing the intern they had sex with so the wife won't find out they like sex wearing a head to toe red rubber suit".

Or the President "catching up on his high school reading list" during the longest Presidential vacation ever.

Or the President "catching up on his high school reading list" during the longest Presidential vacation ever.

Yeah. So does anyone recognize the irony in having the US government (regardless of party affiliation) trying to tell the Iraqi government to stay at the helm and work hard?

Yeah. So does anyone recognize the irony in having the US government (regardless of party affiliation) trying to tell the Iraqi government to stay at the helm and work hard?

I think its deliciously ironic.

so?

what does one have to do with the other?

are YOU taking time in the air conditioning while our troops swelter in 130 degree heat? of course you are, your circumstances have nothing to do with theirs.

the iraqi government is completely seperate from the army occupying their country.

they didnt even invite us in.

why should they skip summer vacation because our troops have to serve no matter if they take vacation or not?

1. Our troops cannot come home until they fix their political, economic, and social situation

2. Taking time off delays our troops coming home

3. It was 88 degrees when I reported for drill this past weekend. Add about 60 pounds of gear and long sleeves and pants makes it pretty uncomfortable. I was there in summer and the heat is unbearable.

4. Invite us? I disagree wiht the original rationale to go to war but we did depose them of a dictator and allow them to form a government of their choosing. WHile our soldiers die in their sweltering heat I think they should at least work through the "harsh" conditions to try and come to a solution quicker. They want us out, we want out, they need to fix the problems they have first correct?

At least they should have portable crappy ACs in each window. All I'm saying is that there are too many important things going on for them to just sit around for a month. They could at least change the place of there meetings, if they really do have no AC.

In the middle of the 1700's the US congress always met, it may not of been as hot, but with those wigs and multi-layered suits, it must of been rough. They may not of liked it, but they got everything that needed to be done.

Yeah. Nobody gave the Continental Congress the month off.

Ah, so in your mind, Iraq is not a sovereign nation, but in your view, just the 51st state of the United States...

Obviously, you were never in the military. You stay there while the powers that be do their political dance.

It's called civilian control of the military. You get sent somewhere, even if you aren't the proper tool for the mission, and you stay there until they get tired of it, or you get the job done, and make do with whatever they gave you to do it.

The obvious solution to this would have been to have a military governor of Iraq until such time as the insurgency was over (or leave right after we topple Saddam, or never go there in the first place). That way, we could tell everyone where to get on and get off the bus.

But the civilians over here didn't do it that way. They thought, for some reason, that letting the Iraqis elect their own government and write their own Constitution was of some value.

I find it interesting that while the US seemed to be fine with (and the soldiers fine with) fighting the Cold War for decades, with a LOT of standing around in remote places of the world for entire military careers (and in some cases, getting killed even when no war was on).

Tell you what - I think that the US should change ITS Constitution - and that we should never go to any conflict, or deploy any troops outside the US borders, without a national referendum - and if the majority of Americans don't want us to station troops in Haiti, or they don't want us to patrol the South China Sea, or they don't want us invading Iraq - then we don't do it.

And that way, the people will have spoken - and no Congressman, Senator, or President need take the blame for deploying or not deploying troops anywhere.

I completely understand military protocal as I attended reserve drill this past weekend. I'll be out next may and gladly so, never having to be subservient to the political will and conveniences ever again. You're saying because it's the status quo it is the right thing to do? This is no political dance we're talking about. We're talking about people taking time of because "it's hot outside" while soldiers do not have that luxury. I expect that the military should be there for as long as it takes to fix the problem and not a day more. Taking the summer off for them doesn't fix the problem quicker. When youa re in a crisis you stay late, up all night, work work and work even harder to fix the solution. You don't take a break! You think you can call a time out in the middle of a firefight? "Sorry guys, it's hot an I'm tired. Can we just call it a draw and wait until tomorrow?"

Yeah. Nobody gave the Continental Congress the month off.

No, how on Earth could we ever expect them to struggle to form a government like we did? Plugging away until you get the damn job done no matter how long it takes. If they desire peace and freedom they have to be willing to work for it.

Yeah but they are doing it because they are lazy assholes, not because "it's hot outside."

Touché.

No, how on Earth could we ever expect them to struggle to form a government like we did? Plugging away until you get the damn job done no matter how long it takes. If they desire peace and freedom they have to be willing to work for it.

Yeah, that's what I meant. You phrase it a lot better.

You don't have to listen to Tony Snow to know he is full of bullshit. All the people mocking him, ie Jon Stewart, and topics like this make it self-evident.
Hell, isn't being full of bullshit part of the requirement for being White House Press Secretary? Sure, under Bush, they've taken it to an art form, but I've never known a Press Secretary to give a straight answer when they could come up with a convoluted way of saying nothing at all.

Hell, isn't being full of bullshit part of the requirement for being White House Press Secretary? Sure, under Bush, they've taken it to an art form, but I've never known a Press Secretary to give a straight answer when they could come up with a convoluted way of saying nothing at all.

The guy is from Faux, what do you expect?

Jaw Bush really knows how to pick em.

Hell, isn't being full of bullshit part of the requirement for being White House Press Secretary? Sure, under Bush, they've taken it to an art form, but I've never known a Press Secretary to give a straight answer when they could come up with a convoluted way of saying nothing at all.

Isn't this less a convoluted way of saying nothing at all, and more a convoluted way of saying "Go fuck yourselves"?

Isn't this less a convoluted way of saying nothing at all, and more a convoluted way of saying "Go fuck yourselves"?

Depends on who it is. For instance, the first Bush Press Secretary, Ari Fleischer, was the true artist--he said "go fuck yourself" with style and grace and you almost wanted to thank him for saying it. The second one, Scott McClellan, never really said "go fuck yourself." He rarely said anything at all. He was basically as incoherent as Bush is most days. Tony Snow, however, has a certain snarliness to his delivery--he's a Cheney protégé, I think, but with Bush's intellect.