NationStates Jolt Archive

Your own dictionary says so! Mirriam-Webster dictionary

Definition of witch (and most Wiccans are witches)
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

So basically "a witch is especially someone who practices black witchcraft, often with the aid of a devil..."

If your dictionary blatantly lies about witches, then no wonder witches and Wiccans (most Wiccans are witches, not all) get such hate thrown at them.

For the record: Wiccans and witches do NOT:


Worship the devil
Invoke the devil
Use the devil in any spell (Wiccans specifically don't even believe in the existance of Satan)
Kidnap children
Eat children
Put curses on people (the only exception is that SOME witches (regardless of whether they are Wiccan or any other form of Pagan or not) MAY perform a curse on someone who has done something seriously bad - but even in this example, most wouldn't due to their ethics and the belief that what energy is sent out returns)
Sacrifice children or animals


Of course there are a tiny minority who DO one or more of the above things, but they are few and far between and most witches and Pagans would not consider them to be true witches or Pagans.

1. What dictionary is my dictionary?
2. That definition uses the word in the definition. Must be a crappy dictionary.
3. Wiccans are wierd lolz.

:rolleyes:

wow, please don't be a wicca basher

For the record: Wiccans and witches do NOT:


Worship the devil
Invoke the devil
Use the devil in any spell (Wiccans specifically don't even believe in the existance of Satan)
Kidnap children
Eat children
Put curses on people (the only exception is that SOME witches (regardless of whether they are Wiccan or any other form of Pagan or not) MAY perform a curse on someone who has done something seriously bad - but even in this example, most wouldn't due to their ethics and the belief that what energy is sent out returns)
Sacrifice children or animals


Doesn't seem much fun then.

wow, please don't be a wicca basher

who are you talking to?

Doesn't seem much fun then.

More benefits of atheism. ;)

Wicca.

*sigh*

1. What dictionary is my dictionary?
2. That definition uses the word in the definition. Must be a crappy dictionary.
3. Wiccans are wierd lolz.

1. Sorry forgot to put the dictionary. Fixed. It's what I thought was the most common one in the U.s.A..
2. It would appear so.
3. By the definition of weird, everyone is weird

More benefits of atheism. ;)

Granted blood can be a bugger to clean from the carpet but a religion without sacrifice is just dull in my books.

witch-a practitioner of Wicca (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/witch)

the dictionary you quote.

it's interesting isn't it?

1. Sorry forgot to put the dictionary. Fixed. It's what I thought was the most common one in the U.s.A..
2. It would appear so.
3. By the definition of weird, everyone is weird

I use wiktionary, because Merriam-Webster's site is slow. Also, it has a better definition:
Noun
Singular
witch
Plural
witches
witch (plural witches)
1. A (usually female) person who is learned in and actively practices witchcraft (according to the OED, its use in the masculine is "now only dialectal").
2. (derogatory) An ugly or unpleasant woman.
I hate that old witch.


As you can plainly see, the superior wiktionary states that witches are ugly broads. How true...

witch-a practitioner of Wicca (http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/witch)

the dictionary you quote.

it's interesting isn't it?

READ. NUMBER. ONE. on that link

READ. NUMBER. ONE. on that link

number one is usually the most common definition, which it has been the most common definition of a witch for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Your new religion that is less than 60 years old by most counts is just not the most common definition.

I wish people who want to foolishly attempt to recreate religions would pic something really cool...like maybe some Ancient Egyptian cult.

I wish people who want to foolishly attempt to recreate religions would pic something really cool...like maybe some Ancient Egyptian cult.

I would sooo worship Horus.

I wish people who want to foolishly attempt to recreate religions would pic something really cool...like maybe some Ancient Egyptian cult.

They already did that, it's called Christianity. :p

[/conspiracy]

I wish people who want to foolishly attempt to recreate religions would pic something really cool...like maybe some Ancient Egyptian cult.

Feh, the only thing the Egyptian did was create mummies and use Hebrew slaves to build pyramids.

Feh, the only thing the Egyptian did was create mummies and use Hebrew slaves to build pyramids.

Exactly why they are awesome!

who are you talking to?

mutiland

If they were really awesome we'd be fighting off zombie mummies right now! *nods*

Silly! You have to read the Book of Life first, like in the movies!

Exactly why they are awesome!

If they were really awesome we'd be fighting off zombie mummies right now! *nods*

Exactly why they are awesome!

In fact, it's commonly believed that the pyramids were an early form of Tetris whereby Hebrew slaves were used to rapidly place the blocks until a pyramid was formed, at which point it was blown up. The remaining few are the Top 10 scores and are thus preserved.

That's what I was taught anyway.

In fact, it's commonly believed that the pyramids were an early form of Tetris whereby Hebrew slaves were used to rapidly place the blocks until a pyramid was formed, at which point it was blown up. The remaining few are the Top 10 scores and are thus preserved.

That's what I was taught anyway.

Who are you, a time traveler from some alternate future where the Church of Gaming sets up a theocracy?

In fact, it's commonly believed that the pyramids were an early form of Tetris whereby Hebrew slaves were used to rapidly place the blocks until a pyramid was formed, at which point it was blown up. The remaining few are the Top 10 scores and are thus preserved.

That's what I was taught anyway.
It all makes sense now!

Also, FUKKEN SIGGED!

Who are you, a time traveler from some alternate future where the Church of Gaming sets up a theocracy?

Alternate future? Ha ha, you ancient people are funny in your naivety

It's the only future.

It all makes sense now!

Also, FUKKEN SIGGED!

w00t!

Wicca-wicca-wicca wicca My name is....

But seriously, who? I don't even know what a "Wiccan" is, nor do I think it's a devil worshiper.

that is the most common usage. That doesn't mean it is the only usage.

Defending some pagan religion?

WITCH!! WITCH BURN IT!! BURN!!!!! IT!!!!111!!!1!1!!!

Aren't Wiccans people who like Wikipedia a lot?

Feh, the only thing the Egyptian did was create mummies and use Hebrew slaves to build pyramids.

You're aware there's no recorded evidence of the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt, right?

Too bad there's nothing more annoying then a fundamentalist Christian with a persecution complex, except a fluff-bunny with a persecution complex.

Most people believe that Wiccans worship the Devil because most people who know Wiccans are in fact either Christian, Muslims, or Jews. We believe that there is only one God. Wiccans aren't worshipping the one true God, yet are worshipping something. Therefore, they must be worshipping Satan, even if they don't believe they are.

You're aware there's no recorded evidence of the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt, right?

Ad ignorantiam.

You're aware there's no recorded evidence of the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt, right?

Too bad there's nothing more annoying then a fundamentalist Christian with a persecution complex, except a fluff-bunny with a persecution complex.
...
What the hell?

...
What the hell?

Two unrelated ideas, divided into separate paragraphs.

You're aware there's no recorded evidence of the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt, right?

This is true

Too bad there's nothing more annoying then a fundamentalist Christian with a persecution complex, except a fluff-bunny with a persecution complex.

This is a bit over-the-top :)

Your own dictionary says so! Mirriam-Webster dictionary

Definition of witch (and most Wiccans are witches)
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar


That's an accurate definition as the word is usually encountered in literature, until a few very recent exceptions where 'wiccans' have appropriated the term for themselves. Any updated definition that might include "modern" witches should be the secondary, not the primary. ;)

You're aware there's no recorded evidence of the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt, right?

Too bad there's nothing more annoying then a fundamentalist Christian with a persecution complex, except a fluff-bunny with a persecution complex.

Eh. I'm not a bible scholar by any means, but the History Channel's recent shows on the topic claim Hebrews were dispersed throughout Egypt at the relevant time. Almost no one believes the pyramids were built by slave labor anymore, but the Hebrews were certainly there, slaves or not. ;)

You're aware there's no recorded evidence of the Hebrews being enslaved by Egypt, right?

Too bad there's nothing more annoying then a fundamentalist Christian with a persecution complex, except a fluff-bunny with a persecution complex.

Feh, I'm tired and sick so whatever, I'm not going to argue on this.

Okay, people have their own opinion about Wiccans being devil worshipers...but thats the populace's idea, not the dictionaries.

Let me clarify what a Wiccan in my definition is. (In most cases)
1. Are polytheistic. (Some are duo and mono as well.)
2. Practice some sort of witchcraft.
3. Believe in some aspect of the golden rule. I think instead of 'an Eye for an Eye', it is 'an Eye for 3 Eyes'
4. Are a very eclectic group.
5. Practice rituals.

Per the dictionaries(Merriam-Webster) definition of the religion of Wicca

: a religion influenced by pre-Christian beliefs and practices of western Europe that affirms the existence of supernatural power (as magic) and of both male and female deities who inhere in nature and that emphasizes ritual observance of seasonal and life cycles.

No where does it mention the devil. Yet as you say Wiccans may call themselves witches, here is that definition.

: one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

As you can see (my text changes should help) the definition does not say witches necessarily worship the devil. The definition of witch (especially the first part) sounds more of a God than a Wiccan. As far as I'm aware Wiccans aren't credited for supernatural powers, they normally go through the Gods to gain said powers.

The real reason I believe most people think that Wiccans are devil worshipers (aside from their blind eye to things strange to them and judging people by very outward appearances) is that they are polytheistic and some of them do worship a devil-like God. Another fact is that Wiccans are, at times, so closed minded to people outside their religion. I'm not saying all of them do it, but enough to make other people suspicious, but we are all guilty of being closed minded at times...Wiccans are no exception.

(I will be sending this to a friend that is Wiccan to make sure I didn't make any false accusations about the majority of this religion.)

So, in my opinion, I wouldn't care what people think about my religion. If they aren't willing to except something that is different, then screw them, I have other things to worry about. Please just deal with humanities narrow mindedness, we all have to, some are just more aware than others.

They turned me into a newt!

I got better..

Seriously, if you want to piss a Wiccan off, don't call them a devil-worshipper. Instead ask them why they call it the 'Old Religion' when it was effectively created in the 1950s by an English dude called Gerald Gardner.

Then watch the froth fly. :)

often with the aid of a devil or familiar[/I]

(Ab)using somethings power to me does not imply worship ;)

Your own dictionary says so! Mirriam-Webster dictionary

Definition of witch (and most Wiccans are witches)
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

So basically "a witch is especially someone who practices black witchcraft, often with the aid of a devil..."Sure, pick out the single definition which most offends you; there are further definitions, at least in the online-version.

Main Entry: 1witch
Pronunciation: 'wich
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wicche, from Old English wicca, masculine, wizard & wicce, feminine, witch; akin to Middle High German wicken to bewitch, Old English wigle divination, and perhaps to Old High German wIh holy -- more at VICTIM
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar : SORCERESS -- compare WARLOCK
2 : an ugly old woman : HAG
3 : a charming or alluring girl or woman
4 : a practitioner of Wicca
5 : WITCH OF AGNESI So, how about picking #4 instead?
(Hmm, 3 is a bit of an odd one out, isn't it?)

Main Entry: Wic·ca
Pronunciation: 'wi-k&
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from Old English wicca wizard -- more at WITCH
: a religion influenced by pre-Christian beliefs and practices of western Europe that affirms the existence of supernatural power (as magic) and of both male and female deities who inhere in nature and that emphasizes ritual observance of seasonal and life cycles

Definition of witch (and most Wiccans are witches)
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

So basically "a witch is especially someone who practices black witchcraft, often with the aid of a devil..."

If your dictionary blatantly lies about witches, then no wonder witches and Wiccans (most Wiccans are witches, not all) get such hate thrown at them.


To sum it up: Aiee, there's a christian bias in dictionaries!

If your religion was so stupid to adopt for its believers a name that has been used for centuries to signify this:


Definition of witch
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

then, IT IS YOUR AND YOUR RELIGION'S PROBLEM, NOT MY DICTIONARY'S.

By the way, I prefer the Oxford Learner's.


Of course there are a tiny minority who DO one or more of the above things, but they are few and far between and most witches and Pagans would not consider them to be true witches or Pagans.

Aha! So, there is some reason to credit Wiccan witches with practicing "black witchcraft" (the fact that I think that witchcraft is a huge load of bullshit, of course, doesn't mean that the Wiccans don't think that they're doing effective magic).

Also, we could say about Muslim and Al-Qaida, or Christians and IRA:
Of course there are a tiny minority who DO one or more of the above things (bombing, killing, torturing), but they are few and far between and most Muslim/Christians would not consider them to be true Muslim/Christians.

Neh?

Really... get a grip on reality, at least, about dictionaries.

(Hmm, 3 is a bit of an odd one out, isn't it?)
It's a life-saver. "Honey, look, THAT'S what I had in mind!".

If your religion was so stupid to adopt for its believers a name that has been used for centuries to signify this:

Really... get a grip on reality, at least, about dictionaries.

You get a grip on reality, or at least do some research. Christianity was fine with witches for quite some time...it wasn't till about...I think the 9th or 10th century...that, due to an inability to convert them the way they wished, the Church decided to rewrite the Bible to condemn them as evil heretics. What you can't convert, you destroy, was the Church's motto.

Most people believe that Wiccans worship the Devil because most people who know Wiccans are in fact either Christian, Muslims, or Jews. We believe that there is only one God. Wiccans aren't worshipping the one true God, yet are worshipping something. Therefore, they must be worshipping Satan, even if they don't believe they are.

Funny how you can speak for three major religions, that.
I've known Wiccans and never once thought they worshipped the Devil. I did think it wasn't my cup of tea, but that's beside the point.

You get a grip on reality, or at least do some research. Christianity was fine with witches for quite some time...it wasn't till about...I think the 9th or 10th century...that, due to an inability to convert them the way they wished, the Church decided to rewrite the Bible to condemn them as evil heretics. What you can't convert, you destroy, was the Church's motto.

Well, I'm pretty sure 900-1000 were, like, centuries ago.

Wiccans make great cakes. I suspect this has to do with a knack for following recipes. *rubs chin thoughtfully*

Is it something like Harry Potter then? I always loved him (the books, I mean).
Cause it seems quite peaceful. well, not that hp is but ...
argh well nvm. last time i used m-w anyway then.

Well, I'm pretty sure 900-1000 were, like, centuries ago.

Irrelevant. He said it as if the Church had always considered witches devil-worshipping heretics when they didn't.

I wish people who want to foolishly attempt to recreate religions would pic something really cool...like maybe some Ancient Egyptian cult.

Absolutely!

Time magazine has given no less than a dozen covers to God, Jesus and Christianity combined.

"The God Gene"
"What Jesus Saw"
"Man and the Messiah"

If you're going to do articles on religion, I'd like to see some equality on the cover:

"Vishnu to Ganesh: 'Drop dead!'"
"Is there no pleasing Zeus?"

Wiccans make great cakes. I suspect this has to do with a knack for following recipes. *rubs chin thoughtfully*

Wiccan space cakes! Yummy.

how come many wiccans dont worship the the Smith gods Govannon etc all and the other smaller lesser known gods that concerened with less fancy aspects of life

Does the OP honestly believe there is only ONE dictionary in use in the US anyway?

I wish people who want to foolishly attempt to recreate religions would pic something really cool...like maybe some Ancient Egyptian cult.

Heheh say didn't the Christians do just that?

Most people believe that Wiccans worship the Devil because most people who know Wiccans are in fact either Christian, Muslims, or Jews. We believe that there is only one God. Wiccans aren't worshipping the one true God, yet are worshipping something. Therefore, they must be worshipping Satan, even if they don't believe they are.

Mwahahah I love this logic. Umm how about if there is only one true God, then all worship of God must be the same God? Something that Wiccans do understand although it appears that Christians don't.

Mwahahah I love this logic. Umm how about if there is only one true God, then all worship of God must be the same God? Something that Wiccans do understand although it appears that Christians don't.

Hey, don't paint ME with that brush, bud.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12882217&postcount=47

Does the OP honestly believe there is only ONE dictionary in use in the US anyway?

Well, you know Multiland...he's one of those people who thinks the U.S. is nothing but a redneck/American Idol loving hellhole with absolutely no one decent in it whatsoever.

Does the OP honestly believe there is only ONE dictionary in use in the US anyway?

I still think the entries for 'wiccan' and 'obnoxious' should be merged as soon as possible. :p

They turned me into a newt!

I got better..

Seriously, if you want to piss a Wiccan off, don't call them a devil-worshipper. Instead ask them why they call it the 'Old Religion' when it was effectively created in the 1950s by an English dude called Gerald Gardner.

Then watch the froth fly. :)

Heh yeah that is always fun.

You get a grip on reality, or at least do some research. Christianity was fine with witches for quite some time...it wasn't till about...I think the 9th or 10th century...
Afaik, Christians were burning pagan temples and killing pagans back in AD 389-391, when Christianity was declared State religion of the Roman Empire and pagan cults were banned.

that, due to an inability to convert them the way they wished, the Church decided to rewrite the Bible to condemn them as evil heretics. What you can't convert, you destroy, was the Church's motto.

Of course. I wasn't claiming that wiccans ARE evil devil (oh, the allitteration!) worshippers. I just claimed that, if you choose to describe yourself with a term that has been used for centuries to mean "evil dangerous sonuvabitch", then you should expect many people to believe that you're an "evil dangerous sonuvabitch", don't you think so? And dictionaries are perfectly ok in reporting "evil dangerous sonuvabitch" as first meaning of the term. This was my point, sorry if I haven't been clear abou that.

Afaik, Christians were burning pagan temples and killing pagans back in AD 389-391, when Christianity was declared State religion of the Roman Empire and pagan cults were banned.



Of course. I wasn't claiming that wiccans ARE evil devil (oh, the allitteration!) worshippers. I just claimed that, if you choose to describe yourself with a term that has been used for centuries to mean "evil dangerous sonuvabitch", then you should expect many people to believe that you're an "evil dangerous sonuvabitch", don't you think so? And dictionaries are perfectly ok in reporting "evil dangerous sonuvabitch" as first meaning of the term. This was my point, sorry if I haven't been clear abou that.

I believe the correct term is 'ownage'.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Hey, don't paint ME with that brush, bud.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12882217&postcount=47

Sorry I'm confussed? Are you a Wiccan that doesn't realise this, or wot?

Afaik, Christians were burning pagan temples and killing pagans back in AD 389-391, when Christianity was declared State religion of the Roman Empire and pagan cults were banned.

Of course. I wasn't claiming that wiccans ARE evil devil (oh, the allitteration!) worshippers. I just claimed that, if you choose to describe yourself with a term that has been used for centuries to mean "evil dangerous sonuvabitch", then you should expect many people to believe that you're an "evil dangerous sonuvabitch", don't you think so? And dictionaries are perfectly ok in reporting "evil dangerous sonuvabitch" as first meaning of the term. This was my point, sorry if I haven't been clear abou that.

I thought the religion was legalized around that time, not established as a state religion? Pretty sure of that, actually. :p

I'm also not seeing any alliteration. ;)

Does the OP honestly believe there is only ONE dictionary in use in the US anyway?

Does the average person actually use dictionaries in the first place ?

Does the average person actually use dictionaries in the first place ?

Don't they? Maybe not paper dictionaries, but there's a few good ones online. :)

Your own dictionary says so! Mirriam-Webster dictionary

Definition of witch (and most Wiccans are witches)
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

So basically "a witch is especially someone who practices black witchcraft, often with the aid of a devil..."

If your dictionary blatantly lies about witches, then no wonder witches and Wiccans (most Wiccans are witches, not all) get such hate thrown at them.

For the record: Wiccans and witches do NOT:


Worship the devil
Invoke the devil
Use the devil in any spell (Wiccans specifically don't even believe in the existance of Satan)
Kidnap children
Eat children
Put curses on people (the only exception is that SOME witches (regardless of whether they are Wiccan or any other form of Pagan or not) MAY perform a curse on someone who has done something seriously bad - but even in this example, most wouldn't due to their ethics and the belief that what energy is sent out returns)
Sacrifice children or animals


Of course there are a tiny minority who DO one or more of the above things, but they are few and far between and most witches and Pagans would not consider them to be true witches or Pagans.

Firstly, what is this 'Mirriam-Webster' Dictionary you speak of? There is only one English Dictionary and that is the Oxford Dictionary.

Secondly, where is the Witch? Verily I tell you, that burning should be legalised in such cases.

I thought the religion was legalized around that time, not established as a state religion? Pretty sure of that, actually. :p

Nonono, you're mixing it up. Toleration of christian religion was established by Constantine with the Edict of Milan in 313, while rejection of pagan religion was established through some edicts in the period 389-381 by Theodosius.

I'm also not seeing any alliteration. ;)
...mmhh right, "evil devil (worshippers)" is more a rhyme than an allitteration. Silly me.

Nonono, you're mixing it up. Toleration of christian religion was established by Constantine with the Edict of Milan in 313, while rejection of pagan religion was established through some edicts in the period 389-381 by Theodosius.

Ah, okay then. :)

...mmhh right, "evil devil (worshippers)" is more a rhyme than an allitteration. Silly me.

Since the "e" sound is different in each, I think it's an example of consonance, since the "vil" is what's carried over. But it's been a long, long time since I could say with certainty. :p

Since the "e" sound is different in each, I think it's an example of consonance, since the "vil" is what's carried over. But it's been a long, long time since I could say with certainty. :p

You know, I'm famed for my terrible pronunciation of english, I'm somewhere between a German and a Scot. If you say consonance, I'm sure it is - really, not joking this time :eek:.

You know, I'm famed for my terrible pronunciation of english, I'm somewhere between a German and a Scot. If you say consonance, I'm sure it is - really, not joking this time :eek:.

Well, if you pronounce the "e" the same in both 'evil' and 'devil,' it could be an example of assonance, I think, but still not alliteration. So at least I can say that much with consonance - I think. :p

Your own dictionary says so! Mirriam-Webster dictionary

Definition of witch (and most Wiccans are witches)
1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar

So basically "a witch is especially someone who practices black witchcraft, often with the aid of a devil..."

If your dictionary blatantly lies about witches, then no wonder witches and Wiccans (most Wiccans are witches, not all) get such hate thrown at them.

For the record: Wiccans and witches do NOT:


Worship the devil
Invoke the devil
Use the devil in any spell (Wiccans specifically don't even believe in the existance of Satan)
Kidnap children
Eat children
Put curses on people (the only exception is that SOME witches (regardless of whether they are Wiccan or any other form of Pagan or not) MAY perform a curse on someone who has done something seriously bad - but even in this example, most wouldn't due to their ethics and the belief that what energy is sent out returns)
Sacrifice children or animals


Of course there are a tiny minority who DO one or more of the above things, but they are few and far between and most witches and Pagans would not consider them to be true witches or Pagans.

sorry, but..... who cares?:confused:

sorry, but..... who cares?:confused:

I'll second that

sorry, but..... who cares?:confused:

Everyone who loves freedom and honesty ?
*raises flag and sings anthem*

Ffs, no wonder so many people in the U.S.A. think Wiccans are devil-worshippers!

As I understand it the convetional wisdom is that pagans are devil-worshippers (even though most are not). People who call themselves "Wiccans" are generally just considered to be a bunch of pussies.

Everyone who loves freedom and honesty ?
*raises flag and sings anthem*

Why do you hate America?:D

As I understand it the convetional wisdom is that pagans are devil-worshippers (even though most are not). People who call themselves "Wiccans" are generally just considered to be a bunch of pussies.

Heh or teenagers?

Ad ignorantiam.

Well, at least you didn't use the even sillier line "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

We can be 99.9% sure that the events recorded in Exodus didn't take place for several reasons:

1. No evidence of an enormous group of people wandering around the desert for fourty years.

An argument from ignorance isn't a fallacy if one can reasonably expect to find evidence if the event occured. Suppose I told you that a herd of elephants had stampeded through a town two hours ago: if you went into the town and saw no wreckage, no casualties and no piles of elephant dung then you should conclude that there were no elephants, because we could reasonably expect them to leave evidence behind. Where are the artifacts left behind by the Hebrews? Where are the hundreds of thousands of dead bodies? Where are the enormous piles of crap? Archeologists have been looking in the area for years but they haven't found anything.

2. No real evidence that it did happen..

The Exodus account was written generations after the purported events. We know this because of Exodus 16:35

The Israelites ate manna forty years, until they came to a land that was settled; they ate manna until they reached the border of Canaan

This means that Exodus cannot have been written before the time of Joshua (they enter Canaan in Joshua 5:12) and was probably written a long time after that based on oral tradition. This makes it extremely unreliable.

3. No evidence of plagues in Egypt.

If Egypt suffered a plague of locusts and lost all of its livestock then we should see evidence of a famine of unprecedented scale. Where are the mass-graves? Where are the records of vast trading expeditions to foreign countries seeking to buy food? Where are the records of Egyptian refugees fleeing to neighbouring countries? The Egyptians sometimes destroyed the records of unpopular pharoahs, but we should still expect to find records in nearby countries.

Basically, Exodus didn't happen. Any questions?

Basically, Exodus didn't happen. Any questions?

Who are the Jews?

Why do you hate America?:D

I have nothing against those continents or the various villages named thusly ;)

Who are the Jews?

Jews (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)

Ah.

do I care? No...

Wicca = "Look at me!"

Wicca = "Look at me!"

That's what I thought.

Ah.

:p

Sorry I'm confussed? Are you a Wiccan that doesn't realise this, or wot?

No, I'm a Christian who's got no problem with Wiccans (among other people I'm also supposed to have a problem with).

Wicca = "Look at me!"

Wicca / fantasy = Scientology / sci-fi .

Eh.

Sigh.

Dictionaries just list all or most of the known and officially accepted usages of a word. They typically list them in order of most common usage to least common or most specialized usage. Words like "witch" have lots of usages and lots of connotations, and any good dictionary will list all of them, but that does not imply that every usage is appropriate for every occasion.

For further reference, if you want to talk about Wicca, try looking up "Wicca":

Merriam-Webster online

Main Entry: Wic·ca
Pronunciation: 'wi-k&
Function: noun
Etymology: probably from Old English wicca wizard -- more at WITCH
: a religion influenced by pre-Christian beliefs and practices of western Europe that affirms the existence of supernatural power (as magic) and of both male and female deities who inhere in nature and that emphasizes ritual observance of seasonal and life cycles
- Wic·can /'wi-k&n/ adjective or noun

The "more at WITCH" part is easily explained by the fact that Wiccans often refer to themselves as "witches" and what they do as "witchcraft." That's not the dictionary's fault.

Just because the word has been appropriated by some doesn't change the other definitions :rolleyes:

When I think "witch" I don't think of Wicca...I think of this (http://www.lazydork.com/movies/witches.jpg) lovely lady.

Wicca / fantasy = Scientology / sci-fi .

= Christianity / horror ;)

No, I'm a Christian who's got no problem with Wiccans (among other people I'm also supposed to have a problem with).

Ahhhh so what brush did I paint you with?

Hurrah for home-made images!

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9043/wiccaca2.png

Ahhhh so what brush did I paint you with?

There are some Christian groups who insist that Christians MUST have a problem with Wiccans. (MUST = it is mandatory)

There are some other groups (even some Wiccans) who insist that if you're a Christian, you MUST have a problem with Wiccans. (MUST = The Christian Hive Mind)

Not all wiccans are the same.

There are some Christian groups who insist that Christians MUST have a problem with Wiccans. (MUST = it is mandatory)

There are some other groups (even some Wiccans) who insist that if you're a Christian, you MUST have a problem with Wiccans. (MUST = The Christian Hive Mind)

Nope I don't belive I even alluded to that. What I did say and in answer to the specific poster that said Wiccans do not worship the true (Christian)God, so therefore even if they don't realise it they are worshiping Satan was.

If Wiccans worship God, and there is only one God, then Wiccans therefore must be worshiping the same God. I alluded that because there is only one God, any worship of this God under whatever name is in effect worship of the same God. I said that some Wiccans realise this, and most Christians don't

I put it forward as a logical counter argument.

Eh. I'm not a bible scholar by any means, but the History Channel's recent shows on the topic claim Hebrews were dispersed throughout Egypt at the relevant time. Almost no one believes the pyramids were built by slave labor anymore, but the Hebrews were certainly there, slaves or not. ;)

the history channel's bible stuff is always awful. just like their ufo stuff. and the show i'm betting you are thinking of in particular is a fucking joke. was it the one that claimed the hebrews invented the alphabet?

I don't think Smunkee meant you. I think she meant that people around her expect her to have a problem with Wiccans.

I don't think it was smunkee I was conversing with.

Nope I don't belive I even alluded to that. What I did say and in answer to the specific poster that said Wiccans do not worship the true (Christian)God, so therefore even if they don't realise it they are worshiping Satan was.

If Wiccans worship God, and there is only one God, then Wiccans therefore must be worshiping the same God. I alluded that because there is only one God, any worship of this God under whatever name is in effect worship of the same God. I said that some Wiccans realise this, and most Christians don't

I put it forward as a logical counter argument.

I don't think Smunkee meant you. I think she meant that people around her expect her to have a problem with Wiccans.

the history channel's bible stuff is always awful. just like their ufo stuff. and the show i'm betting you are thinking of in particular is a fucking joke. was it the one that claimed the hebrews invented the alphabet?

I think I've heard of the show you're talking about. Was it the one which identified the Hebrews with the Hyksos?