NationStates Jolt Archive

I am currently in iran from my twice-annual (half-annual? double-annual? twice a year, anyway) visit. So I think I'll post a short summary of the current situation. The traffic is terrible, worse than any in America (although its lightened up a bit recently, I'll get to that later). The pollution is the worst Ive ever experienced (except for on other visits to Iran) (Ive been to New York, Beijing, Boston ect.) The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, Its approximatley 10000 rials to a dollar, there is only one half-decent university in the entire country, and its almost impossible to get into.gas is being rationed, Iran does not have the capacity to refine oil so they sell i t then buy it back, refined, later on at at higher price. The idiotic islamic laws still stifle the country- everyone hates the government, but those who dare to protest are imprisoned, beaten, or killed. The police have gotten into the habit of dragging suspected gang memebrs into the streets and beating them while wearing masks.

But Islam is a progressive and peaceful religion!

Any good news? :p Good markets or vegetables or something?

*The OP*
Bi-annual.

Oh and yeah, it's in quite a bad state at the moment. But once this current particularly crappy leadership is out of power, things should pick up a fair bit.

I've also heard that if you stay in the smaller towns in the greener bits, the pollution's not actually too bad, all things considered.

But Islam is a progressive and peaceful religion!

Yes, just like christianity and Judaism! Any theocracy is bad: Christian, Jewish, or Muslim.

Any good news? :p Good markets or vegetables or something?

Delicious food.

Oh and yeah, it's in quite a bad state at the moment. But once this current particularly crappy leadership is out of power, things should pick up a fair bit.


Well, the mullahs select a new Supreme Leader once the old one dies, so not much chance of that.

But Islam is a progressive and peaceful religion!
*gives you a slap for trying to make this into an anti-Islamic topic*

Delicious food.

Well that's good. :)

But once this current particularly crappy leadership is out of power, things should pick up a fair bit.

Isn't there a rule against flaming other players? Andaras Prime could report you to the mods for flaming him. ;)

Well, the mullahs select a new Supreme Leader once the old one dies, so not much chance of that.
I was talking more in terms of the presidency, which is extremely moronic at this point in time.

I take it you're in Tehran, then?

Well, the mullahs select a new Supreme Leader once the old one dies, so not much chance of that.
Most people think the loud mouthed president is running the country.

Isn't there a rule against flaming other players? Andaras Prime could report you to the mods for flaming him. ;)
I was unaware that AP was actually Achmujenidad, but hey, you learn something new every day, eh?

I was unaware that AP was actually Achmujenidad, but hey, you learn something new every day, eh?

:p

I was talking more in terms of the presidency, which is extremely moronic at this point in time.

I take it you're in Tehran, then?

Oh the presidency. I thought you were talking about the leadershipmy mistake. No, its been like this for a while, expect for the gas rationing. And yes, I'm in Tehran.

Oh the presidency. I thought you were talking about the leadershipmy mistake. No, its been like this for a while, expect for the gas rationing. And yes, I'm in Tehran.
Yeah, IIRC Tehran's just about the most polluted place on the planet outside of some of the Chinese cities.

Still, nice food and such. What's your favourite Persian (can't stand the term 'Iranian') dish, then?

Still, nice food and such. What's your favourite Persian (can't stand the term 'Iranian') dish, then?

Heh why? I mean that's like caling French cusine Gaulish food. Get over it, it was a looooong time ago.

Heh why? I mean that's like caling French cusine Gaulish food. Get over it, it was a looooong time ago.
It's more that the sound of the word does my head in.

Persian - flows nicely
Iranian - awkward

Oh and the term you're looking for is 'gallic' ;)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_method=full%26objectid=19460956%26siteid=89520-name_page.html

And, IMHO, you can still call it Persian food because, as far as I know, the Persian people are found in Iran.

I am doubting the authenticity of the OP...

Heh why? I mean that's like caling French cusine Gaulish food. Get over it, it was a looooong time ago.

It wasn't that long ago. Less than a century.

I am doubting the authenticity of the OP...
I wouldn't bother. Iran is not a land of milk and honey.

I wouldn't bother. Iran is not a land of milk and honey.

The rigor of the Iranian people in withstanding an almost continuous sanction since the US-paid Iraqi invasion in which over a million died is truly heroic. They were shot, shelled, gassed and maimed, and lived under blockade because the reactionary West fears the Islamic Revolution and it's spread. The Iranian people deserve nuclear weapons for deterrence against the massive stockpiles of the US imperialists. Hail Iran!

I am doubting the authenticity of the OP...

Why? I'm pretty sure I remember the OP saying that they visit Iran on previous occasions; Iran can't refine oil and is dependent on foreign imports of petrol; and Islamic laws are seriously fucked up, especially in their treatment of women.

The rigor of the Iranian people in withstanding an almost continuous sanction since the US-paid Iraqi invasion in which over a million died is truly heroic. They were shot, shelled, gassed and maimed, and lived under blockade because the reactionary West fears the Islamic Revolution and it's spread. The Iranian people deserve nuclear weapons for deterrence against the massive stockpiles of the US imperialists. Hail Iran!
Right. Erm. That doesn't necessarily make it a lovely place to live.

North Korea's a complete shithole, but heh, their rigour in withstanding an almost contunious sanction from the west since 1950 makes it into something else, right?

I think not.

It's more that the sound of the word does my head in.

Persian - flows nicely
Iranian - awkward

Oh and the term you're looking for is 'gallic' ;)

Ahhh then I can appreciate that. Yep yep, certian words do seem to have an inner rythem.

Hey, Slythros, you're not from the US are you? I'm sure you know far more about this than I do, but I've heard stories of Iranian-Americans being thrown in prison there on charges of spying for Uncle Sam recently. One of them was a respected scholar who's made many trips, too. I've only heard of four arrests, though, and I'm sure at least hundreds make the trip every month. I know it spooked the State Dept enough to issue a fairly serious warning (although that's not uncommon). Anyway, like I said I'm sure that you're more aware of the situation than I am, but stay safe anyway.

It wasn't that long ago. Less than a century.

Wha?

Delicious food.

I've always wanted to try Iranian cuisine. I've heard it's pretty good.

Hey, Slythros, you're not from the US are you?
If he was I'm surprised he hasn't been detained on suspicions of terrorism yet.

Wha?

I know that in 1925, the country was ruled by the Shah of Persia. The two terms are used fairly interchangeably.

Hey, Slythros, you're not from the US are you? I'm sure you know far more about this than I do, but I've heard stories of Iranian-Americans being thrown in prison there on charges of spying for Uncle Sam recently. One of them was a respected scholar who's made many trips, too. I've only heard of four arrests, though, and I'm sure at least hundreds make the trip every month. I know it spooked the State Dept enough to issue a fairly serious warning (although that's not uncommon). Anyway, like I said I'm sure that you're more aware of the situation than I am, but stay safe anyway.

That's a bummer. :(

I was going to suggest posting pictures, but maybe he had better not. :p

I know that in 1925, the country was ruled by the Shah of Persia. The two terms are used fairly interchangeably.
Well it was about that time that the West started to refer to the country as Iran and not Persia.

I know that in 1925, the country was ruled by the Shah of Persia. The two terms are used fairly interchangeably.

I thought you meant the French as Gallic. *confused*

Well it was about that time that the West started to refer to the country as Iran and not Persia.

The country was renamed Iran in the mid-1930s by Reza Shah.

If he was I'm surprised he hasn't been detained on suspicions of terrorism yet.

no he would be outside of the US now :p

I was going to suggest posting pictures, but maybe he had better not. :p

but I really want to see detailed schematics of the Iranian power grid! (and how he has got on the internet)

I am currently in iran from my twice-annual (half-annual? double-annual? twice a year, anyway) visit. So I think I'll post a short summary of the current situation. The traffic is terrible, worse than any in America (although its lightened up a bit recently, I'll get to that later). The pollution is the worst Ive ever experienced (except for on other visits to Iran) (Ive been to New York, Beijing, Boston ect.) The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, Its approximatley 10000 rials to a dollar, there is only one half-decent university in the entire country, and its almost impossible to get into.gas is being rationed, Iran does not have the capacity to refine oil so they sell i t then buy it back, refined, later on at at higher price. The idiotic islamic laws still stifle the country- everyone hates the government, but those who dare to protest are imprisoned, beaten, or killed. The police have gotten into the habit of dragging suspected gang memebrs into the streets and beating them while wearing masks.

You must be some Muslim-hating asshat, to be posting those assertions on this forum. I'm surprised that Nodinia isn't saying you're full of shit.

You must be some Muslim-hating asshat, to be posting those assertions on this forum. I'm surprised that Nodinia isn't saying you're full of shit.

make sure you don't spray any of that jizz on the keyboard now won't you

.. trying to make this into an anti-Islamic topic*this was anti-Islamic from the get go.

if you haven't noticed.. the thread starter is IRAN MAN, the #1 fan of AhmedJihad :D

make sure you don't spray any of that jizz on the keyboard now won't you

Looks like I got plenty on yours...

You must be some Muslim-hating asshat, to be posting those assertions on this forum. I'm surprised that Nodinia isn't saying you're full of shit.

Nodina's alright, AP and Oceandrive are the resident apologists for Iran.

You must be some Muslim-hating asshat.IRAN MAN hates the Iranian Revolution, he hates them so much.. he probably prefers it never happened.

Give him a choice: Shah or revolution.. and see what he picks.

Nodina's alright, AP and Oceandrive are the resident apologists for Iran.

Nodinia apologizes for all Muslims (actually, I think it's all revolutionaries of any ilk, except American revolutionaries).

Nodina's alright, AP and Oceandrive are the resident apologists for Iran.I have nothing to apologize for.

I did not elect Ahmejihad.. I am not Iranian.

ask IRAN MAN what is he doing to make his country better -if he is Iranian- ask him who did he vote for..

Nodinia apologizes for all Muslims (actually, I think it's all revolutionaries of any ilk, except American revolutionaries).

I've never seen him defending the Iranian system of government; I could be mistaken of course, but I've yet to see it.

You must be some Muslim-hating asshat, to be posting those assertions on this forum. I'm surprised that Nodinia isn't saying you're full of shit.
Facts are not assertions.
"Traffic on the streets of Tehran are worse than any city in America" != "all Muslims are terrorists."
Thanks for playing, please try again.

I have nothing to apologize for.

I did not elect Ahmejihad.. I am not Iranian.

You might want to look up the meaning of 'apologist' when you get the chance.

ask IRAN MAN what is he doing to make his country better -if he is Iranian- ask him who did he vote for..

If he has the vote, I assume he voted for one of the cleric approved candidates (i.e. a conservative). Not much of a choice is it?

Nodinia apologizes for all Muslims (actually, I think it's all revolutionaries of any ilk, except American revolutionaries).Yes the 1776 Revolution was not all freedom, Justice.. and all the Hollywood stuff

But even with all the defects and lies.. I will defend most revolutions. Including ours -US-

The bottom line for me is sovereignty.
Plus, locally elected Govs usually have their hearts closer to the interests of the local population.

Most people think the loud mouthed president is running the country. Wow just like the US. Except replace loud mouth with stupid.

Facts are not assertions.
"Traffic on the streets of Tehran are worse than any city in America" != "all Muslims are terrorists."
Thanks for playing, please try again.

As far as Nodinia is concerned, facts are not facts unless a link to a source he approves says so.

As far as you go, if I had made the same post, you would not say that it was "facts". You would say, "oh, you're making it up again I see".

Others would chime in with, "muslim-basher!" and "Iranian-hater!"

As far as you go, if I had made the same post, you would not say that it was "facts". You would say, "oh, you're making it up again I see".

Others would chime in with, "muslim-basher!" and "Iranian-hater!"
You wouldn't have made the post and then made the post about how the Muslims in charge are supporting terrorists and trying to create missiles to sell to attack the US with and thus the Muslims are bad, or you would have made the post then proceeded it with that using the previous part as some sort of jump off..

You wouldn't have made the post and then made the post about how the Muslims in charge are supporting terrorists and trying to create missiles to sell to attack the US with and thus the Muslims are bad, or you would have made the post then proceeded it with that using the previous part as some sort of jump off..

I don't have to post anything except how Muslims do one thing or another.

Note my posts on toilet habits. Not a peep about terrorism in there. No jump off.

But the vitriol in return was incredible.

I don't have to post anything except how Muslims do one thing or another.
And in such away to assert Muslims are 3b1l and barbaric.
I forgot to add - if you had made that post, you would have done so without even having been there and when pressured you would have pulled up the link to your "proof" which would be a hard-rightwing biased editorial.

Note my posts on toilet habits. Not a peep about terrorism in there. No jump off.

But the vitriol in return was incredible.
You mean the posts designed to villify Arabic people? Yeah, who could imagine why the vitriolic replies :rolleyes:

And in such away to assert Muslims are 3b1l and barbaric.
I forgot to add - if you had made that post, you would have done so without even having been there and when pressured you would have pulled up the link to your "proof" which would be a hard-rightwing biased editorial.

You mean the posts designed to villify Arabic people? Yeah, who could imagine why the vitriolic replies :rolleyes:

I've actually been to Iraq and Afghanistan - whereas you have not.

I'm not villifying them - I'm just reporting the exact behavior I've seen.

I've actually been to Iraq and Afghanistan - whereas you have not.
I didn't realize that Tehran, the capital of Iran, was in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

I'm not villifying them - I'm just reporting the exact behavior I've seen.
In such a way and for the reason of villifying Muslims and Arabic people.

I didn't realize that Tehran, the capital of Iran, was in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

You were insinuating that I had never been anywhere, especially to the Middle East.

In such a way and for the reason of villifying Muslims and Arabic people.

I can't help it if they spread shit all over the bathroom. You make it sound like I told them to do it.

Oh, and here's another right-wing blog on how shitty Iran is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6240287.stm

Oh good. Another pissing contest. Mind the furniture please, its getting boring.

You were insinuating that I had never been anywhere, especially to the Middle East.
I were insinuating you would say things about places you had never been because you would plagiarize your posts from a hard rightwing editorial.

Oh, and here's another right-wing blog on how shitty Iran is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6240287.stm
Except the problem is you are doing it because you want to make them look bad, not to make a valid point.

Oh God, here comes the Islamophobes.

I forgot to add - if you had made that post, you would have done so without even having been there And we believe the OP has...because?

But Islam is a progressive and peaceful religion!

everyone, ignore that

I am in Iran. I may need assistance. This is not a joke. You'll get paid after. Bring your own weapons. Safety not Guaranteed. I have only done this once before.

Oh God, here comes the Islamophobes.
Well, as with many things, there doesn't seem to be much middle ground here. It's often either 'EVIL MUSLIMS' or 'HAIL IRAN'.

Both sides of the same, pathetic coin.

I am in Iran. I may need assistance. I have only done this once before. Safety not Guaranteed. Bring your own weapons.

No no no!

You say, 'Send lawyers, guns and money (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PwXMkfeH95k)'!

IRAN MAN hates the Iranian Revolution, he hates them so much.. he probably prefers it never happened.

Give him a choice: Shah or revolution.. and see what he picks.

Thanks for the nickname. And for the record, no, do not hate the Iranian revolution. I hate the Islamic Revolution. You see, the Iranian Revolution was not originally the Islamic Revolution. It was hijacked. And as to the choice- I choose the Shah over the current leaders of Iran. The Shah was a lackey of America, a coward, an oppressor, and a general asshole. But he was still better than the current government. Andaras Prime- you doubt that I am Iranian? Why? Because the facts as they exist contradict your ignorant view of the Islamic Regime as being glorious preservers of freedom and justice? If you wish, take a trip to Iran and see for yourself.

As to those who have responded with concern- thank you. And yes, I am Iranian-American but have thus far escaped significant persecution in either country (more random checks at airports- thats it). However, it would be very dnagerous to take pictures of police, soldiers, prisons ect.

Iran has internet access. (I forget who asked about that) Many sites are banned, but nationstates is not among them.

As to my views on religion and theocracy, check the first page.

Yes, just like christianity and Judaism! Any theocracy is bad: Christian, Jewish, or Muslim.

Don't forget Utah.

Well...

Send me some tea and a carpet?

ask IRAN MAN what is he doing to make his country better -if he is Iranian- ask him who did he vote for..

That sad clown doesn't get to decide anything. The country is ran by the Grand Ayatollah and the Guardians--who the Iranians cannot vote out of power.

Well, as with many things, there doesn't seem to be much middle ground here. It's often either 'EVIL MUSLIMS' or 'HAIL IRAN'.

Both sides of the same, pathetic coin.
*has stayed relatively in the middle*

ask IRAN MAN what is he doing to make his country better -if he is Iranian- ask him who did he vote for..That sad clown doesn't get to decide anything.Nah.. Slytros is not a clown.. he is childish but he is not a clown.

I am not going to call Slythros a "clown".. because I think he takes himself very seriously.

[...]
Iran has internet access. (I forget who asked about that) Many sites are banned, but nationstates is not among them.
[...]

... yet.

You've got to think they'll notice pretty soon. It's not like the word "asshat" is particularly subtle.

I'm wondering why you take the risk ... surely the police there are looking at outgoing communications in the process of building their ban list ?

No, really: why risk your liberty for the sake of a little NSG ?

I am in Iran. I may need assistance. This is not a joke. You'll get paid after. Bring your own weapons. Safety not Guaranteed. I have only done this once before.If I -or you- is going to kill Ahmehjihad.. I should be paid in advance.

killing presidents is like selling you body.. money up front mothafucker
of course I have never done it before ... I think ^^
disclaimer: I formally discourage anyone from assassinating elected presidents and.. to sell your body for a few dollars. LOLz

Also, just to confirm, Jews aren't persecuted or anything in Iran, Khomeini in one of his speeches said that Zionism as a political ideology he opposed, but that Judaism was a legitimate religion and allowed.

Also, just to confirm, Jews aren't persecuted or anything in Iran, Khomeini in one of his speeches said that Zionism as a political ideology he opposed, but that Judaism was a legitimate religion and allowed.

O RLY?

members of minority religious groups have reported imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and discrimination based on their religious beliefs

By law and practice, religious minorities are not allowed to be elected to a representative body or to hold senior government or military positions

While Jews are a recognized religious minority, allegations of official discrimination are frequent. The Government's anti‑Israel policies, along with a perception among radical Muslims that all Jewish citizens support Zionism and the State of Israel, create a hostile atmosphere for the small community. For example, during the period covered by this report many newspapers celebrated the one-hundredth anniversary of the publishing of the anti-Semitic "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Jewish leaders reportedly are reluctant to draw attention to official mistreatment of their community due to fear of government reprisal.

In principle, but with some exceptions, there is little restriction of or interference with the Jewish religious practice; however, education of Jewish children has become more difficult in recent years. The Government reportedly allows Hebrew instruction, recognizing that it is necessary for Jewish religious practice. However, it strongly discourages the distribution of Hebrew texts, in practice making it difficult to teach the language. Moreover, the Government has required that several Jewish schools remain open on Saturdays, the Jewish Sabbath, in conformity with the schedule of other schools in the school system. Since working or attending school on the Sabbath violates Jewish law, this requirement has made it impossible for observant Jews both to attend school and adhere to a fundamental tenet of their religion.

Jewish citizens are permitted to obtain passports and to travel outside the country, but they often are denied the multiple-exit permits normally issued to other citizens. With the exception of certain business travelers, the authorities require Jewish persons to obtain clearance and pay additional fees before each trip abroad. The Government appears concerned about the emigration of Jewish citizens and permission generally is not granted for all members of a Jewish family to travel outside the country at the same time. According to the U.N. High Commission for Refugees' (UNHCR) background paper on the country, the Mandaeans are regarded as Christians and are included among the country's three recognized religious minorities. However, Mandaeans regard themselves not as Christians but as adherents of a religion that predates Christianity in both belief and practice. Mandaeans enjoyed official support as a distinct religion prior to the Revolution, but their legal status as a religion since then has been the subject of debate in the Majlis and has not been clarified. The small community faces discrimination similar to that faced by the country's other religious minorities. There were reports that members of the Mandaean community experience societal discrimination and pressure to convert to Islam, and they often are denied access to higher education. Mandaean refugees have reported specific religious freedom violations and concerns such as being forced to observe Islamic fasting rituals and to pray in Islamic fashion, both in direct violation of Mandaean teaching.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35497.htm

Even if he isn't in Iran, the country is falling apart. Inflation, income inequality, poverty and unemployment are all worsening, and the government's idiotic subsidies on gasoline have led to shortages and massive pollution.

The place is in bad shape, and it's going down fast.

the government's idiotic subsidies on gasoline

"Idiotic" falls far short of describing that particular policy.

Of course, the very real risk is that if the government stops, the populace riots, because of the mess it's made of the rest of the economy.

"Idiotic" falls far short of describing that particular policy.

Of course, the very real risk is that if the government stops, the populace riots, because of the mess it's made of the rest of the economy.

That isn't a risk, it's something we should hope for.

I really think that the students will overthrow this stupid theocracy inside of three years.

That isn't a risk, it's something we should hope for.

I don't disagree. I meant a risk from the perspective of the government.

I don't disagree. I meant a risk from the perspective of the government.thanks for clearing it up

The Iranian Revolution never ended. It has just spent a really long time in a radical phase. Sooner or later, it will move on. Whether it be peaceful or not is anyone's guess. Have fun there, btw. I'm sure it's not all bad if you chose to go there.

O RLY?







http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35497.htm

That's only because it's more likely those of the Jewish ethnicity/religion are more likely to be Israeli spies or terrorists, the same way of course I expect the US government may pay attention to Muslims wanting to join the public service etc or other activities which may damage the Iranian Republic. If Mossad teaches Iran anything, it's that Israel is not above spying and violence to achieve it's Zionist political/ideological objectivies. For example Iran destroyed and is now fighting a minor insurgency with the People's Mudjahadeen of Iran, an Islamic group, for some years.

Also, quoting US sources is very biased.

Make sure you keep your head while you're there, OP.

Nah.. Slytros is not a clown.. he is childish but he is not a clown.

I am not going to call Slythros a "clown".. because I think he takes himself very seriously.

I was referring to Ahmadinejad, not the OP.

Oh God, here comes the Islamophobes.Curious. Shouldn't you be an islamophobe yourself?

You're a self-declared Marxist, after all - and 'Religion is opium for the masses' is quite explicit - 'Religion' includes islam (There's a reason for the communist party being banned in all islamic theocracies. Including, of course, Iran).

But of course, you not being a Marxist, but merely an angry, teenaged antiamerican unthinkingly and uncritically siding with whom- or whatever happens to be opposed - or appears to be opposed - to the US and the civilisation it represents kind of prevents this, I suppose.

That's only because it's more likely those of the Jewish ethnicity/religion are more likely to be Israeli spies or terrorists, the same way of course I expect the US government may pay attention to Muslims wanting to join the public service etc or other activities which may damage the Iranian Republic. If Mossad teaches Iran anything, it's that Israel is not above spying and violence to achieve it's Zionist political/ideological objectivies. For example Iran destroyed and is now fighting a minor insurgency with the People's Mudjahadeen of Iran, an Islamic group, for some years.

Also, quoting US sources is very biased.
Jesus Christ, you need some serious lessons in reality. Come on. Put down the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (which, as everyone knows, was faked by the Russian secret service with the help of the French) and stop with the whole 'Zionist' thing. It does my head in.

Also - quoting US sources isn't biased if they're government sources, these are written by people trying to be proffessional about the issue, and indeed many other groups have reported this, including groups like Amnesty International.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE130102006?open&of=ENG-380

"Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians face discrimination in law and practice with respect to employment, marriage, and criminal sanctions."

But of course, you not being a Marxist, but merely an angry, teenaged antiamerican unthinkingly and uncritically siding with whom- or whatever happens to be opposed - or appears to be opposed - to the US and the civilisation it represents kind of prevents this, I suppose.

*applauds*

Niot to mention that no real socialist would gleefully support misogynistic regimes in the way AP does. I suspect he simply hasn't progressed past a simplistic worldview based on good and evil: "the west does bad stuff, therefore anyone opposed to the West must be double-plus good!"

Nah.. Slytros is not a clown.. he is childish but he is not a clown.

I am not going to call Slythros a "clown".. because I think he takes himself very seriously.

Because obviously anyone who points out the absurdity of your delusions about Iran is a clown. :rolleyes:

That's only because it's more likely those of the Jewish ethnicity/religion are more likely to be Israeli spies or terrorists, the same way of course I expect the US government may pay attention to Muslims wanting to join the public service etc or other activities which may damage the Iranian Republic. If Mossad teaches Iran anything, it's that Israel is not above spying and violence to achieve it's Zionist political/ideological objectivies. For example Iran destroyed and is now fighting a minor insurgency with the People's Mudjahadeen of Iran, an Islamic group, for some years.

Also, quoting US sources is very biased.

Just curious: do you come up with this shit yourself, or do you get daily emails from Iran's Guardian Council telling you what to think?

Seriously, if any western country banned Muslims, Arabs and Persians from standing for government or holding senior positions in the military you'd scream the house down. You're a blatant hypocrite with no credibility whatsoever.

Come to think of it, isn't it kind of obvious that Israel would have "Zionist political/ideological objectives"? :confused:

Just curious: do you come up with this shit yourself, or do you get daily emails from Iran's Guardian Council telling you what to think?

Seriously, if any western country banned Muslims, Arabs and Persians from standing for government or holding senior positions in the military you'd scream the house down. You're a blatant hypocrite with no credibility whatsoever.
I'm beginning to think he's a puppet, you know. It's just ludicrous.

Curious. Shouldn't you be an islamophobe yourself?

You're a self-declared Marxist, after all - and 'Religion is opium for the masses' is quite explicit - 'Religion' includes islam (There's a reason for the communist party being banned in all islamic theocracies. Including, of course, Iran).

"Religion is the opium of the people" is one of the most mis-quoted writings of Marx. Go look it up. "Quite explicit" my fat pimply ass.

"Communist" dictatorships ban religion for the same reason any dictatorship bans non-state religions -- they provide networks of private association which the government fears as subversive. They tend to form an alternative structure of authority.

But of course, you not being a Marxist, but merely an angry, teenaged antiamerican unthinkingly and uncritically siding with whom- or whatever happens to be opposed - or appears to be opposed - to the US and the civilisation it represents kind of prevents this, I suppose.

AP's posts are quite ridiculous sometimes, yes. If you were ridiculing one of the posts, I'd be cheering you on (silently of course.)

But that is just rude and personal and does absolutely nothing to advance anyone's knowledge.

EDIT: And the more senior posters who decided to make a ruck of it could probably check whether they're playing the ball or the player, too.

Come to think of it, isn't it kind of obvious that Israel would have "Zionist political/ideological objectives"? :confused:
True, but to be honest, almost everyone calling Jews 'Zionists' is essentially being quietly antisemitic and yet try and trying to legitamise it.

I'm beginning to think he's a puppet, you know. It's just ludicrous.

He's certainly doing a good job at undermining support for Iran.

I was unaware that AP was actually Achmujenidad, but hey, you learn something new every day, eh?

Ackmadinawhackjob is a figurehead, the real power is the Supreme Leader and the Islamic council.

I'm sorry, did I say Ackmadinawhackjob? I meant Ackmadinajihadi

Need a hand? (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Pronounce_Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad) :)

"Religion is the opium of the people" is one of the most mis-quoted writings of Marx. Go look it up. "Quite explicit" my fat pimply ass.

"Communist" dictatorships ban religion for the same reason any dictatorship bans non-state religions -- they provide networks of private association which the government fears as subversive. They tend to form an alternative structure of authority.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.That explicit enough for you? To wit: The people cannot be free (Through elimination of the capitalist system) while being religious (That Marxism & communism would would eventually turn out being religions themselves is another matter). Religion may not be inherently evil - but its effect is to imprison the masses, albeit in a prison of sugar and cream, and it must be removed in order to free them.

Really, it is explicit.

But that is just rude and personal and does absolutely nothing to advance anyone's knowledge.What is? Calling him a teenager? For everything else I said there's plenty of proof - he does ignore every even vaguely socialist doctrine when it doesn't suit him (Not a socialist), he is antiamerican (It's kinda obvious, don't you think? I mean, claiming that any american news source is biased - to name just one example in this thread - kinda... yeah), he is uncritical - hence his complete rejection of some newssources and complete embracing of others based on the nation they come from, without so much as doublechecking or thinking about them -, and calling someone a teenager doesn't strike me as particularly rude, really.

Need a hand? (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/HowTo:Pronounce_Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad) :)

Just say "I'm a dinner jacket" quickly and trail off at the end. :p

Curious. Shouldn't you be an islamophobe yourself?

Marxist (and general leftist) critiques of religion in general and right-wing attacks on Islam have very different characters and functions.

Generally speaking, right-wing attacks on Islam are really attacks on Muslims, often in the context of supporting US imperialism or anti-immigrant policies. This is why they have a racist tone. This impression is only reinforced by the fact that Islam is criticized for things that Christianity and Judaism have themselves--like sexist, exclusivist, bloodthirsty holy texts.

On the other hand, left-wing critiques of religion are genuinely critiques of religion, not of the groups who tend to practice a given religion--their intended audience, crucially, is not the people of the West to warn them of the imminent danger of some other group of people with a certain religion, but the people who practice the religion themselves. And they, unlike those produced by Islamophobes, criticize Christianity and Judaism just as harshly--indeed, most of the critiques were developed against Christianity in the first place.

Edit: That said, I find it very difficult to see how any Marxist could ever support the Islamic Republic of Iran... certain kinds of critical support in the context of anti-imperialism, maybe, but not apologetics for its less-savory policies. Especially considering the number of leftists Iran's fundamentalist government has murdered over the years.

*picks fingernails*
*hums a bar of the Flintstones theme*

I'm for bed folks. Do your thing.

The traffic is terrible, worse than any in America (although its lightened up a bit recently, I'll get to that later).

Isn't there supposed to be a better rail system being made in Tehran? Or is that still on the drawing board?

Yes, just like christianity and Judaism! Any theocracy is bad: Christian, Jewish, or Muslim.

As much as I am inclinedd to believe this.. I disagree with the generalization..

Totalitarian governments are dangerous, but a true theocracy might be better than some of the other systems around

Marxist (and general leftist) critiques of religion in general and right-wing attacks on Islam have very different characters and functions.Oh, absolutely. This doesn't change that favouring it is a little odd, though.

Generally speaking, right-wing attacks on Islam are really attacks on muslims, often in the context of supporting US imperialism or anti-immigrant policies.Arguable. From my understanding, the issue is generally a given person's religion, not the person itself (Unless it actually does something, anyway). And immigration issues tend to center around - or against - mexicans, rather than muslims. Now, a case can be made for the WASP right being likely to start being unabashedly racist - as in, against the ethnicity rather than the religion - once loads of christianised middle easterners show up on american shores, but eh...

In any case, the difference is more that the right-wing attacks argue that 'Islams makes these people evil!', rather than the leftish 'Religion enslaves these people'.

This impression is only reinforced by the fact that Islam is criticized for things that Christianity and Judaism have themselves--like sexist, exclusivist, bloodthirsty holy texts.To be entirely fair - Islam has the highest proportion of people actually enforcing the bloodthirsty and inhumane edicts one can find in more or less any given religion's texts - there aren't exactly many countries ran by nutjobs of the Pat Robertson (And worse) routine, yet we've had Taliban Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or Eritrea, so I'd say that saying that of all major religions, Islam - or rather, its practise by its various adherents - is presently the one responsible for most inhumane practices is reasonably accurate.

Now, a fundie WASP nutjob criticising Islam for all these things is certainly a hypocrite (Though, in fairness, most of the time I see them criticising Islam for not being Christian, not for the practices Christian fundamentalism would like to share with it). But it's rather silly to accuse an atheist of being an Islamophobe (In the sense of 'But why don't you care about evil Christians!', that is) for pointing Islam's inhuman scripture and practices out - of course the atheist is aware that assorted other religions have the same (Albeit implemented to a significantly lesser degree, these days). But this doesn't make Islam any better, no matter how much the self-declared 'Progressive' do-gooders would like to believe it in their attempts to absolve Islam of all blame by accusing Judaism and Christianity of being responsible for everything from mass murder to pineapples.

On the other hand, left-wing critiques of religion are genuinely critiques of religion, not of the groups who tend to practice a given religion--their intended audience, crucially, is not the people of the West to warn them of the imminent danger of some other group of people with a certain religion, but the people who practice the religion themselves. And they, unlike those produced by Islamophobes, criticize Christianity and Judaism just as harshly--indeed, most of the critiques were developed against Christianity in the first place.Well, historically, this is arguable, given the treatment of 'Believers' in assorted socialist countries, nevermind the inherently religious qualities Marxism and the ideologies it has inspired have taken on. I'll certainly admit that these criticisms take a much more polite form, though.

What's more, the very examples you see in NS - with assorted lefties happily defending Islam and smearing Christianity - kind of prove you wrong, as a lot of lefties tend to have their goal as attacking the establishment of the civilisations they happen to be born into, rather than objectively criticising the concept. I suppose that a case could be made for theseself-declared 'Leftists' being trolls, but to be perfectly honest - it's more likely that they're just ignorant.

Yes, just like christianity and Judaism! Any theocracy is bad: Christian, Jewish, or Muslim.

Don't hear about Jewish and Christian countries preventing all freedoms

Don't hear about Jewish and Christian countries preventing all freedomsThere are presently no Christian or Jewish theocracies, either. Secularism rings a bell? It applies to, erm, basically all of them.

Meaning, the local religions don't have the power to enforce doctrines detrimental to secular values.

But if you'd like to take a look at the Book of Joshua (It has recently been proven to be full of bullshit the priests invented in the Babylonian exile, but still - it contains their wet dreams of how they'd like to run their nation), or assorted european states from ~ 1400- ~ 1600 (And these weren't even theocracies as such - 'Theocracy Light' at most)...

Oh, absolutely. This doesn't change that favouring it is a little odd, though.

Favoring Islam, you mean? As opposed to what?

And immigration issues tend to center around - or against - mexicans, rather than muslims.

Not in Europe.

In any case, the difference is more that the right-wing attacks argue that 'Islams makes these people evil!', rather than the leftish 'Religion enslaves these people'.

Indeed. I'm pretty sure that that's what I said.

To be entirely fair - Islam has the highest proportion of people actually enforcing the bloodthirsty and inhumane edicts one can find in more or less any given religion's texts - there aren't exactly many countries ran by nutjobs of the Pat Robertson (And worse) routine, yet we've had Taliban Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or Eritrea, so I'd say that saying that of all major religions, Islam - or rather, its practise by its various adherents - is presently the one responsible for most inhumane practices is reasonably accurate.

Perhaps. But the point remains that criticism of passages in the Koran, rather than actual practices in the real world, is indicative of a double standard--and more importantly, a critique along the lines you have outlined leaves room for reform and for genuinely moderate Muslims.

But this doesn't make Islam any better

No, it doesn't make Islam any better--but it reduces (or is intended to reduce) the paranoia and bigotry directed against Muslims specifically.

Well, historically, this is arguable, given the treatment of 'Believers' in assorted socialist countries,

Means. The ends--officially anyway--remained that religion tends to be the opponent of revolutionary consciousness, and reinforces a whole range of other conservative tendencies (exclusivism, sexism, the subordination of reason to faith) to boot.

nevermind the inherently religious qualities Marxism and the ideologies it has inspired have taken on.

Actually, the use of "Marxism" as a sort of state religion by "socialist" regimes to justify their tyranny is an excellent example of exactly what the leftist critique of religion is talking about.

What's more, the very examples you see in NS - with assorted lefties happily defending Islam and smearing Christianity

We see leftists defending Islam against the right-wing attacks on Islam that I mentioned earlier, because they are perceived as bigoted in character and because they are used to justify imperialism and xenophobia.

We see many atheists and agnostics (many of whom are leftists) attacking religion on more or less non-ideological grounds: it is irrational, it is unscientific, it is exclusivist and bigoted, and so on.

We see some leftists attacking religion on explicitly leftist ideological grounds: it plays a fundamentally conservative role in society, supporting the state and the class system against a revolutionary consciousness that might pave the way for a more just, equal, and free society.

(The latter two are often directed against Christianity, not because the criticisms don't apply or aren't meant to apply to other religions, but simply because Christianity is the most prominent religion in our society.)

I have done all three. I fail to see the inconsistency... though I'll admit that there have been moments of tension where I've defended things I don't support because I thought the reasons the people I was arguing with opposed them weren't very good.

as a lot of lefties tend to have their goal as attacking the establishment of the civilisations they happen to be born into

Hardly... we just don't tend to presuppose that the "establishment of the civilizations [we] happen to be born into" is automatically and self-evidently good, whatever its failures.

There are presently no Christian or Jewish theocracies, either.

Wouldn't you say that Vatican City is a Christan theocracy?

update: for men, it is now illegal to wear shorts, long hair, and band T-shirts. For women, it is illegal for the rupush to be too short, or for the rusaree to not cover all of your hair. They're clamping down.

Wouldn't you say that Vatican City is a Christan theocracy?

For all of its 821 citizens.

That's beside the point.

update: for men, it is now illegal to wear shorts, long hair, and band T-shirts.
Sometimes, I go to the mall, and that doesn't seem like a bad set of rules at all.

Nah.. Slytros is not a clown.. he is childish but he is not a clown.

I am not going to call Slythros a "clown".. because I think he takes himself very seriously.
Because obviously anyone who points out the absurdity of your delusions about Iran is a clown. :rolleyes:thats why -sometimes- I put some words in red.. for people just like you. ;)

I hope you are having a good time

I hope you are having a good timeBTW...

IRAN MAN, how much is for "a good time" -in Tehran- these days?
disregard this question if you are underage/ not old enough to know what I mean

Sometimes, I go to the mall, and that doesn't seem like a bad set of rules at all.

Sometimes. And they have it all the time. See the difference? :D

[note: why am i writing this, when it's clear it's just a sort of sarcastic joke:rolleyes:]

Ackmadinawhackjob is a figurehead, the real power is the Supreme Leader and the Islamic council.

I'm sorry, did I say Ackmadinawhackjob? I meant Ackmadinajihadi
Incidentally, you're also a wanker, so piss off.

Good post, Linker. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12885726&postcount=102)I was tired and grumpy.

update: for men, it is now illegal to wear shorts, long hair, and band T-shirts. For women, it is illegal for the rupush to be too short, or for the rusaree to not cover all of your hair. They're clamping down.

"Update" you say. What, this happened since yesterday ? Or you just noticed ?

No, a real update from someone who was actually there would go more like "I saw a woman arrested today for showing her hair" or "I was chatting to an english-speaker in a cafe, and he told me ..." or "Wowz it's hot, I wish I could wear shorts."

What about the train system Soliechunn asked about ?
Or the internet access I asked about ?

Or ... wait, I know ... what do you mean by "clamping down?" Things you saw with your own eyes, or were told by someone you met.

I'm not asking for links or photographs, it's just that your whole thread is predicated on your actually being there. And that is the only interesting or unique aspect of the thread, which is obviously prone to turning into a flame-fest adorned by word-plays on the name of the president.

So, how about the gas rationing ? I take it you are driving around ... do you get a ration-card ? Do you have to show ID to buy gas ? Or is it just not on sale some days of the week ?

If you could answer any of these questions, it would make the whole thread a lot more worthwhile.

Good post, Linker. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12885726&postcount=102)I was tired and grumpy.



"Update" you say. What, this happened since yesterday ? Or you just noticed ?

No, a real update from someone who was actually there would go more like "I saw a woman arrested today for showing her hair" or "I was chatting to an english-speaker in a cafe, and he told me ..." or "Wowz it's hot, I wish I could wear shorts."

I read it in the newspaper yesterday. It is a recent decision by the government.

What about the train system Soliechunn asked about ?
Or the internet access I asked about ?

The train system is in developement. It has not been finished yet. There is Internet access, but many sites are blocked (as I have already stated). I am connected on dial up, from an internet card, but I know people who have wireless.

Or ... wait, I know ... what do you mean by "clamping down?" Things you saw with your own eyes, or were told by someone you met.

I mean that they are passing yet more idiotic laws. If you disagree with my choice of words, fine.

I'm not asking for links or photographs, it's just that your whole thread is predicated on your actually being there. And that is the only interesting or unique aspect of the thread, which is obviously prone to turning into a flame-fest adorned by word-plays on the name of the president.

I could probably take some pictures, just nothing of police, military, prisons, ect. I'll see what I can do.

So, how about the gas rationing ? I take it you are driving around ... do you get a ration-card ? Do you have to show ID to buy gas ? Or is it just not on sale some days of the week ?

Yes, there is a ration-card.

If you could answer any of these questions, it would make the whole thread a lot more worthwhile.

I have attempted to answer all of them here. If you are not satisfied with any of my answers, kindly inform me.

Linker Niederrhein, there is a distinct difference from academic/professor Marxists who view Marx scientifically and engage in obscure scientific debates regardless if the public never hear what they say. While the ideological/political Marxists, which I count myself in, look at the current times and the state of Marxism, as it is under attack from the reactionary enemy. So we are more realistic and even pragmatic about the class battle, and as such in answer to your Islam comments, we look to the lesser of two(or more) evils in the form of Western capitalism. You'll never seen a leftist actually advocating extreme Islam or the like, we just realize that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend', at least in the short term, it's the ridiculous ideological splits like the Sino-Soviet/Vietnam conflict when socialists can't see the reality of the situation that did in the first attempt.

Linker Niederrhein, there is a distinct difference from academic/professor Marxists who view Marx scientifically and engage in obscure scientific debates regardless if the public never hear what they say. While the ideological/political Marxists, which I count myself in, look at the current times and the state of Marxism, as it is under attack from the reactionary enemy. So we are more realistic and even pragmatic about the class battle, and as such in answer to your Islam comments, we look to the lesser of two(or more) evils in the form of Western capitalism. You'll never seen a leftist actually advocating extreme Islam or the like, we just realize that the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend', at least in the short term, it's the ridiculous ideological splits like the Sino-Soviet/Vietnam conflict when socialists can't see the reality of the situation that did in the first attempt.

I wonder if you realize that in the Islamic Republic, the "lesser of two evils" if you were foolish enough to advertise your socialist views, you would be executed?

BTW...

IRAN MAN, how much is for "a good time" -in Tehran- these days?
disregard this question if you are underage/ not old enough to know what I mean

Your head, if its extra marital. However, a man can obtain a "temporary marriage" or a permanent one, with a girl as young as 14. This is a form of slavery, as she is "bought"from her parents (arranged marriage). And then, this being Iran, is required to submit to whatever her husband (master) wishes, and can be beaten, ect.