NationStates Jolt Archive

I very briefly dated someone who I was close friends with for a long time. Things ended because she didn't want to risk losing our friendship.

She said something to the effect that she felt more secure talking to me when we were friends than when we were dating.

Has anyone ever dated someone they were close friends with and gotten ast the communication barrier? How? Similar stories?

I find there is a "line" on friendship..once you go past it..you'll never be able to date..well at least have a working relationship anyways

I've never successfully dated a friend.

I have, however, had lots and lots of sex with some of my friends. Somehow that never led to any issues.

If she really views you as a friend, then the only way you're ever gonna have a shot is to get her to want you as something more than a friend.

Things ended because she didn't want to risk losing our friendship.



Too late.

The awkwardness is time. The emotion is more raw and there's something else to lose and hurt, so you feel like you can't talk about as much, but eventually you find your way around each other and find there are many more things you can talk to each other about. And not just how to touch each other funny, more meaningful and personal things.

When she does that, try not to be a jackass...


...that's more of a personal note/reminder...

I've never seen such masochism :p

Why would someone want to remember such painful memories?

Eh, I've tried dating friends, it never worked out for me either, so I don't really get why people would want to start out as friends.

I very briefly dated someone who I was close friends with for a long time. Things ended because she didn't want to risk losing our friendship.That is a bullshit line for "I don't like you that way". Dating is a higher step. Ask any married couple who their best friend is. A healthy couple will say their partner.

She said something to the effect that she felt more secure talking to me when we were friends than when we were dating.insecurity is a bitch that takes many forms

Has anyone ever dated someone they were close friends with and gotten ast the communication barrier? How? Similar stories?
I've never dated someone I didn't consider a friend...if they wern't a friend, why would I waste my time on them?

I've never dated someone I didn't consider a friend...if they wern't a friend, why would I waste my time on them?

Good point. *bows*

I've gone on a few dates that turned out to skip a few levels because the person really didn't want to know me that well ... they were used to the "baggage" aspect of relationships and wanted the perks before the falls.

Those were fun learning experiences, full of potential self-loathing and doubt, oh joy.

Hmm, yeah.
I've had a really close friend of mine just recently tell me shes in love with me, even though I've got a girlfriend. It's kinda strange. :confused:

I've seen it work and I've seen it fail

in my experience its more something to do when your both bored really

Hmm, yeah.
I've had a really close friend of mine just recently tell me shes in love with me, even though I've got a girlfriend. It's kinda strange. :confused:

Yay polygamy!

I've seen it work and I've seen it fail

in my experience its more something to do when your both bored really

Gee, just like dating someone you don't know.

I never understand why people have problems with this topic. If you date a friend, someone who knows you, how is that in any way difficult? Jeez, it should be easier. You don't have to explain any of your weirdnesses, you don't have to discover that she's into tarot and crystal worship when she has you over the first time, and she doesn't have to have the "comics vs. graphic novels" difference explained to her. Does nobody talk to one another anymore?

Yay polygamy!

Perhaps.. Except the close friend recognizes we could never work together. So, as to why she 'loves' me, I'm not quite sure.

I only date my enemies.

I only date my enemies.

A literalist on the old "keep your friends close and your enemies closer", eh? Nice.

Why would you want to date anyone other than a friend?

And how are you meant to discover that you like the other person without being friends first?

If you date a friend, someone who knows you, how is that in any way difficult?

because you would get along too well and so there wouldn't be those awkward silences where you go hump

plus you also end up dating one of the unsavory types your friendly with :)

Perhaps.. Except the close friend recognizes we could never work together. So, as to why she 'loves' me, I'm not quite sure.

maybe she loves you in a friend kind of way and you've made it really, really uncomfortable

I only date my enemies.

remind me never to argue with you :p

I only date my enemies.

ROFL :)

seriously though Sarkhaan is completly right. i started typing my stuff out when i read his post no need to repeat it here. Best bet is to try and repair the friendship though, assuming you want to lol. Siap did the relationship begin randomly or did you two talk about it before anything happened?

whatever happens, good luck with it though :) sounds kinda stressful.

because you would get along too well and so there wouldn't be those awkward silences where you go hump

plus you also end up dating one of the unsavory types your friendly with :)


Ah, the scintillating tang of stunted emotional development. Smells like Teen Spirit, doesn't it?

Gee, just like dating someone you don't know.

I never understand why people have problems with this topic. If you date a friend, someone who knows you, how is that in any way difficult? Jeez, it should be easier. You don't have to explain any of your weirdnesses, you don't have to discover that she's into tarot and crystal worship when she has you over the first time, and she doesn't have to have the "comics vs. graphic novels" difference explained to her. Does nobody talk to one another anymore?
I've never dated a friend. One of my friends wanted to date with me and not surprisingly we haven't been that close ever since. Creating friendship takes time. Usually one would notice that s/he wants more than that before they are very good friends. Sexual tension (usually) ruins the friendship.

But. You can be (should be) best friends with your partner. The difference is that your partner becomes your best friend after you've started dating.

Dating someone you don't know at all is like lottery. One in xxxxmillion may hit the jackpot, others get some smaller prices or just lose some money. I've tried it once. Not worth it.

IMO you get the best results by dating people you know, potential friends.

I've never dated a friend. One of my friends wanted to date with me and not surprisingly we haven't been that close ever since. Creating friendship takes time. Usually one would notice that s/he wants more than that before they are very good friends. Sexual tension (usually) ruins the friendship.

But. You can be (should be) best friends with your partner. The difference is that your partner becomes your best friend after you've started dating.

Indirectly you are arguing in favour of one-night stands and arranged marriages here ;)

To the OP: I have had some "friends with benefits", but only when single. The big downside is that when you get a steady partner in a monogamous relation the contact with those friends+ can become difficult..

I've never dated a friend. One of my friends wanted to date with me and not surprisingly we haven't been that close ever since. Creating friendship takes time. Usually one would notice that s/he wants more than that before they are very good friends. Sexual tension (usually) ruins the friendship.

But. You can be (should be) best friends with your partner. The difference is that your partner becomes your best friend after you've started dating.

Dating someone you don't know at all is like lottery. One in xxxxmillion may hit the jackpot, others get some smaller prices or just lose some money. I've tried it once. Not worth it.

IMO you get the best results by dating people you know, potential friends.

Oy gevalt.

The whole "sexual tension ruins the friendship" thing is a convention invented by screenwriters for TV and movies. If both people actually *gasp* TALK to one another, honestly, openly and forthrightly, there's no need for the drama. Ah, but people love the drama, don't they?

Indirectly you are arguing in favour of one-night stands and arranged marriages here ;)

You say that like it's a bad thing. ;)

Oy gevalt.

The whole "sexual tension ruins the friendship" thing is a convention invented by screenwriters for TV and movies. If both people actually *gasp* TALK to one another, honestly, openly and forthrightly, there's no need for the drama. Ah, but people love the drama, don't they?
It's not that simple. It's not easy to maintain the same great relationship you've had after your friend tells you he wants more. It felt like he broke my trust. Why he hadn't said anything before (we'd been friends for 3 years and he said he had felt the same way all the time)? No more naked saunaing (hey, we're Finns) or swimming.

We are still friends but not as close as we used to be.

Why would you want to date anyone other than a friend?

And how are you meant to discover that you like the other person without being friends first?

Uh, dating?

Oy gevalt.

The whole "sexual tension ruins the friendship" thing is a convention invented by screenwriters for TV and movies. If both people actually *gasp* TALK to one another, honestly, openly and forthrightly, there's no need for the drama. Ah, but people love the drama, don't they?

Wrong. As explained by the previous post by Alavamaa, it's not quite as simple, because as you become intimate, you start to give away secrets that normally you'd never dream of telling a friend. And it becomes very awkward.

Worst of all would be if you ever had sex with them, and the relationship didn't work out. I don't see personally how you could ever just suddenly become friends again without being constantly aware that you had sex with one another, resulting in extreme awkardness.

It's better to start fresh and date someone you're not friends with in the first place. Then your relationship with the person is constant throughout, and if it doesn't work out, you can go your seperate ways more easily.

Wrong. As explained by the previous post by Alavamaa, it's not quite as simple, because as you become intimate, you start to give away secrets that normally you'd never dream of telling a friend. And it becomes very awkward.

Secrets like ... what ? I have for instance discussed my sexlife quite openly with female friends who were not my partner.

Worst of all would be if you ever had sex with them, and the relationship didn't work out. I don't see personally how you could ever just suddenly become friends again without being constantly aware that you had sex with one another, resulting in extreme awkardness.

That is somewhat true. Not because they know all those things, but because it will not happen again.

Uh, dating?

Then it's too late, and things are already going to get messy.

I very briefly dated someone who I was close friends with for a long time. Things ended because she didn't want to risk losing our friendship.

She said something to the effect that she felt more secure talking to me when we were friends than when we were dating.

Has anyone ever dated someone they were close friends with and gotten ast the communication barrier? How? Similar stories?
Don't date anybody who isn't your friend, and don't be friends with anybody who is less secure talking to you if you're dating.

Difficult decision I see. I've never dated a friend but two of my friends dated....not a good choice. They broke up in a very bad way and basically split our friend group big time. She became obsessive, he didn;t want that. Now 8 months later she still pesters him to the point the police got involved although they are both with different people now. He is happy with his new girlfriend and his ex seems to be happy with her new boyfriend but is still obsessed with hurting this guy.

If everyone involved is mature enough to handle it, dating a friend can be fantastic. You should be good enough friends to at least discuss it - tell him/her that youve grown more emotionally attached to them and talk about it.

Personally, I feel that the best sorts of relationships are friends who do have an emotional attachment, but are not jealous obsessives. It is the best of both worlds - you get a friend, and a lover, and all the benefits of a relationship without all the usual pitfalls of starting to date someone.

Just be an adult about it. Friends care about each other, so it isnt like there isnt any emotion between you anyway (unless you are not actually friends but are just acquaintances), you just want to develop that emotional fulfillment a little more (did that make any sense?).

It all depends on your emotional maturity (which has nothing to do with age) - can you handle dating a friend? will you just end up getting jealous obsessive (which will ruin the relationship and the friendship)?

There are some women with whom the relationship is a perpetual gray area - more than just friends but less than a full on romantic relationship. These are the most rewarding and stable relationships. Just make sure you have open and honest communication and do not try to categorize and pigeonhole your personal dynamic.

Perhaps.. Except the close friend recognizes we could never work together. So, as to why she 'loves' me, I'm not quite sure.
She's embarassed and trying to rationalize why you two aren't together despite her love for you
seriously though Sarkhaan is completly right.

I'm just going to quote that because it doesn't happen often :)

ok, I'm going to snag this opportunity for some advice.

I really like one of my friends. I've known him for about six months, and we've become quite friendly - tons in common, good discussions, fun hanging out, and all that. He's also super dreamy - I liked him pretty much when I met him and I've seen nothing to change my feelings. in fact he gets better all the time, and I like knowing him. Problem is, we're sort of at a stable state of friendship and I don't know what to do! He's never flirty, and recently I found out from a mutual friend that he has virtually no experience with girls, (which is a bit strange for our age). This doesn't bother me because he really is great, and I like him as he is, but I don't want to freak him out! I don't see him terrbily often (once every week or two), but we talk lots through email and msn. what to do?

Two words for you, bud: ladder theory.

http://www.laddertheory.com/foundations.htm

Dating, or trying to date, a "friend" is almost always a fatal error. The only "friends" guys should date are "friends with benefits." And that's a misnomer.

ok, I'm going to snag this opportunity for some advice.

I really like one of my friends. I've known him for about six months, and we've become quite friendly - tons in common, good discussions, fun hanging out, and all that. He's also super dreamy - I liked him pretty much when I met him and I've seen nothing to change my feelings. in fact he gets better all the time, and I like knowing him. Problem is, we're sort of at a stable state of friendship and I don't know what to do! He's never flirty, and recently I found out from a mutual friend that he has virtually no experience with girls, (which is a bit strange for our age). This doesn't bother me because he really is great, and I like him as he is, but I don't want to freak him out! I don't see him terrbily often (once every week or two), but we talk lots through email and msn. what to do?
He probably doesn't flirt because he is nervous. Be straight forward, tell him how you feel, and see what he says. being subtle usually gets the message lost and both of you feeling confused. If you want a relationship with him, tell him.
Two words for you, bud: ladder theory.

http://www.laddertheory.com/foundations.htm

Dating, or trying to date, a "friend" is almost always a fatal error. The only "friends" guys should date are "friends with benefits." And that's a misnomer.
Ah yes. The old ladder theory

there are no two ladders. A girl saying "I just like you as a friend" is simply that: she doesn't want to fuck you, date you, meet your parents, buy a dog, etc. Deal with it, move on.

for all these people who won't date friends, I'm curious...do you date total strangers? Random bums on the side of the street? And if so, what do you call those initial few dates? Because those are essentially creating a friendship. You can not have a relationship without a basis in friendship. It just doesn't work that way.

"A friend is someone you like, but whom it would be awkward to sleep with."

That's what I had to tell my best friend, because she always has trouble telling if she likes a guy as a friend or as more than that.

I've never dated someone I didn't consider a friend...if they wern't a friend, why would I waste my time on them?

Exactly my thought. There once was this woman who, after I had known her for a few months, said I should have asked for a date earlier ("you had two months!"). But why on earth should I try to date somebody I didn't even know that well? Based on looks?

never dated anyone.

I only date my enemies.

FTW.

Well, Rachel's the prettiest in my opinion, and would be my first choice, but I think there's some neuroticism going on there. Forget about Monica, she's neuroticism personified.

Strangely enough, I'd have to go to Phoebe. (Feeb's?) I like her quirkiness, and I bet she's an animal in the sack. Plus, she has a twin sister in porn. It's all good.

Sorry Siap, I suppose you wanted a serious answer.


No.

I'm just going to quote that because it doesn't happen often :)

Well, it should. *bows*

what to do?

I'll repeat Sarkhaan: just talk to him. Maybe he didn't know what to do, maybe the thought just hadn't occured to him that you might be interested (given he doesn't have much experience), whatever... the point is, if he's not interested, he will say so, end of story. Well, probably minus some time to accept that, but it's less painful than just waiting and then eventually seeing him find somebody who actually asked.

I must know.

for all these people who won't date friends, I'm curious...do you date total strangers? Random bums on the side of the street? And if so, what do you call those initial few dates? Because those are essentially creating a friendship. You can not have a relationship without a basis in friendship. It just doesn't work that way.

Exactly my thought. There once was this woman who, after I had known her for a few months, said I should have asked for a date earlier ("you had two months!"). But why on earth should I try to date somebody I didn't even know that well? Based on looks?

Well, there's a difference between someone you're friendly with, and someone you consider 'friends'. If you meet a complete stranger, and go on a series of 'dates' (or whatever non-date term you feel like using) you are getting to know someone, but you aren't necessarily planning on doing all of your favourite pasttimes with them (i.e. play World of Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons, or what have you.)

There are plenty of people who are hooking up based on looks and basic chemistry first. Some people just like their new romantic/lust interest to be new and exciting, and not a friend who happens to have appropriate anatomy. Conducive to long-term relationships? Sometimes. I don't think there's a winning formula. Bottom line is, if they want to stay friends, they're not interested in doing the hokey pokey with ya. Move along before you become obsessive and angst-ridden, it's bad for the complexion. (Speaking from experience, in case anyone thinks I'm just being mean. :p)

I very briefly dated someone who I was close friends with for a long time. Things ended because she didn't want to risk losing our friendship.

She said something to the effect that she felt more secure talking to me when we were friends than when we were dating.

Has anyone ever dated someone they were close friends with and gotten ast the communication barrier? How? Similar stories?

Becoming lovers with a friend is easy if you're a mature sensible pair of individuals. The discomfort that comes with talking to a lover who was once just a friend is a natural, and desirable, part of becoming a couple. You're on new and unfamiliar emotional ground. It's scary if you don't know what you're doing. It's exciting if you let it be.

The whole "I don't want to loose our friendship" thing is bullshit. No friendship survives one friend expressing romantic feelings for the other. The rejected friend may try to play it as though nothing has changed, but both know that it has.

It's even worse if an actual romance has begun. You will never again be friends. You will always be exes. You may have mutual respect and be amicable company, but you will always be aware that some part of your relationship has died.

As for overcoming the difficulty, you have to show her that the relationship is not just two friends settling for each other because neither wants to put in the work of finding a relationship. A girl who has been a friend first must be pursued every bit as strenuously as a girl whom you hardly know.

A girl you hardly know, you're showing her who you want her to think you are. A girl you're friends with, you're showing her who you think she really is.

You overcome the difficulty by making yourself vulnerable. If she really has romantic feeling for you, and it not just trying to let you down easy, you need to reassure her that your relationship is more than just your friendship with sex (or however physical you've gotten).

You know, I've dated friends before but never somebody that I was best friends with, could share anything with, etc. The opportunity has come up more than once, but I just can't see that person as anything other than an awesome friend and maybe a buddy f***, you know? It just seems like there has to be some sense of mystery and giddiness and work to begin it, otherwise why would it ever be exciting?

ok, I'm going to snag this opportunity for some advice.

...but I don't want to freak him out! I don't see him terrbily often (once every week or two), but we talk lots through email and msn. what to do?

Stalk him carefully and hit him over the head. If my best friend/wife hadn't done that ten years ago, I'd still be single. Trust me, guys don't mind straightforward and honest sometimes. :D

Stalk him carefully and hit him over the head. If my best friend/wife hadn't done that ten years ago, I'd still be single. Trust me, guys don't mind straightforward and honest sometimes. :DWell, as per Sark and everyone's advice, I did. Emailed it though, because I didn't feel like waiting, and i'd probably muck it up thoroghly in person. I was fairly blunt. maybe too blunt?

No response yet though.

Well, as per Sark and everyone's advice, I did. Emailed it though, because I didn't feel like waiting, and i'd probably muck it up thoroghly in person. I was fairly blunt. maybe too blunt?

No response yet though.

Woo, score one.

Woo, score one.we're keeping score? and who gets the point?

grr, he should have replied already, he's online. this sucks. phooey.

we're keeping score? and who gets the point?

grr, he should have replied already, he's online. this sucks. phooey.

Take a whiz on his shoes in protest.

we're keeping score? and who gets the point?

Us. *nod*

for all these people who won't date friends, I'm curious...do you date total strangers? Random bums on the side of the street? ...

A friend - total stranger?
Do you call everyone you know "a friend"?

I have dated a total stranger. A very good looking guy I noticed at the bar. I dumped him 3 years later.
Or actually I just don't date. I meet people in various locations. Sometimes I meet someone I like (and someone who likes me) and in few days I realize that I'm in a new relationship. Of course that hasn't happened for a looong time as I've been with the same guy for 6 years.

It's not that simple. It's not easy to maintain the same great relationship you've had after your friend tells you he wants more. It felt like he broke my trust. Why he hadn't said anything before (we'd been friends for 3 years and he said he had felt the same way all the time)? No more naked saunaing (hey, we're Finns) or swimming.

We are still friends but not as close as we used to be.

That, sadly, is the fault of both of you. He broke your trust? How? By being too shy to express his desire for you earlier? Shit, that's practically a proverb -- a given -- with thoughtful young men. The unthoughtful ones will come out and tell you they'd fancy a shag, and that's easy to deal with. But when someone who isn't as extroverted or confident feels something for someone, and telling her risks the potential for never seeing her again, he'll automatically settle for carrying a hidden torch. Had you been paying attention...at all...you could have seen the signs in him.

That said, he's a complete tool for not saying anything for three years. The fear I described is strong, but three years strong? No. That's not charming insecurity, that's full-on neurosis.

Wrong. As explained by the previous post by Alavamaa, it's not quite as simple, because as you become intimate, you start to give away secrets that normally you'd never dream of telling a friend. And it becomes very awkward.

Wow. You either don't value or trust those who you call "friend", or you have a definition of "friend" that would be more suited to the word "acquaintence". Every person I call "friend" knows quite a lot about me, and that's why I have only a handful of them. I have a multitude of acquaintences.

So it is that simple. Redefine "friend" and act accordingly.

Worst of all would be if you ever had sex with them, and the relationship didn't work out. I don't see personally how you could ever just suddenly become friends again without being constantly aware that you had sex with one another, resulting in extreme awkardness.

"Extreme awkwardness" can be survived. In fact, it's not that hard. You avoid each other for a while, remember why you liked them in the first place, re-connect, and get back to where you were before the sex happened. In short, if you can't go back to being platonic friends, you're emotionally lazy and/or stunted. Hoestly being "constantly aware" that you had sex with one another? What is that obsession? Sounds like another neurosis to me.

Don't believe me? Okay. I dated a woman for three years. We even went to college together -- she as an undergrad me as a grad student -- had an apartment together, bought a queen-size bed together, the whole 8.2296 meters. After the first year at university together, before the summer of 2002, we broke up. We talked about what we'd do, given that neither of us could afford to live separately at the time. We stayed roommates, and in fact, still shared the bed we bought -- all this despite the fact that over the summer, she'd met the man who she would eventually marry and have an adorable daughter with a year and a few months later. I just went to the party she threw for the daughter's third birthday. I am welcome in their house as a lifelong friend, her parents still dig me, we still have all the same mutual acquaintences -- in fact, nothing has changed apart from not being a couple anymore. In fact further, we've become better friends since breaking up.

The whole "awkwardness" is an excuse (and a lame one if the friendship was good), to avoid the work of healing emotional wounds and relating to someone you once were as close as most people get in a way that no longer involves sex. And THAT's the beauty of doing that work! You create a friendship, which, like a broken bone, is stronger over the area of the "break" than it was before the "break". I could talk to my ex about new women and she would remind me of stuff I did that was either good or not-so-good and I did the same for her in her relationship with her husband. Hell, I even helped the husband out a couple of times. Thing is, since breaking up with her, I haven't had even one sexual feeling about her. She's someone who knows me very well, and people like that are VALUABLE to have in your life, and therefore worth all the effort to get pas the petty "awkwardness" that tries to convince you to just leave, 'cause it's the easy thing to do.

It's better to start fresh and date someone you're not friends with in the first place. Then your relationship with the person is constant throughout, and if it doesn't work out, you can go your seperate ways more easily.

What kind of relationship is constant throughout from the "hey, he's cute" phase to the point where you're having sex? I mean, besides the one where there's a camera and a "fluffer"? That makes no sense. And really, is going your separate ways any easier if you have to leave completely something you built to be ONLY a sexual relationship? To hear you tell it, you have built both a sexual relationship AND a friendship, and you're just going to leave it? What a waste. Seems to me it's easier to break up with someone who knows you well 'cause they know how you deal with stuff, and you know how they do.

Personally, I'd rather have something left after the sex is over. But I'm old. What do I know?

That, sadly, is the fault of both of you. He broke your trust? How? By being too shy to express his desire for you earlier? Shit, that's practically a proverb -- a given -- with thoughtful young men. The unthoughtful ones will come out and tell you they'd fancy a shag, and that's easy to deal with. But when someone who isn't as extroverted or confident feels something for someone, and telling her risks the potential for never seeing her again, he'll automatically settle for carrying a hidden torch. Had you been paying attention...at all...you could have seen the signs in him.

That said, he's a complete tool for not saying anything for three years. The fear I described is strong, but three years strong? No. That's not charming insecurity, that's full-on neurosis.
He didn't say anything because I had a boyfriend and he wasn't single all that time either. Shyness or low self-esteem most certainly aren't excuses for him :) I don't think he ever tried to give me any signs. He was good friends with my boyfriend (at the time) and he didn't want to come between us.
I can't explain why I felt betrayed. It's more about the thought that he sees me differently than I thought he would. Lying next to him on the beach or naked moon swims (with a lot of friends) weren't comfortable anymore.



"Extreme awkwardness" can be survived. In fact, it's not that hard.You avoid each other for a while, remember why you liked them in the first place, re-connect, and get back to where you were before the sex happened.
Agreed. Or sometimes you don't go back all the way. You can be friends who have sex every once in a while (if both are single, of course) :) Worked for me with one bloke.

He didn't say anything because I had a boyfriend and he wasn't single all that time either. Shyness or low self-esteem most certainly aren't excuses for him :) I don't think he ever tried to give me any signs. He was good friends with my boyfriend (at the time) and he didn't want to come between us.
I can't explain why I felt betrayed. It's more about the thought that he sees me differently than I thought he would. Lying next to him on the beach or naked moon swims (with a lot of friends) weren't comfortable anymore.


Okay, you were both taken? That's key information missing from your first mention of the situation. If that's the case, he was being polite. Nothing wrong with that, especially if he sees that you're with someone who's a mate.

As for the rest, it's a matter of having the guts and the desire to talk it out without overreacting or blaming.

we're keeping score? and who gets the point?

grr, he should have replied already, he's online. this sucks. phooey.
Patience is a virtue ;)

He's nervous. Give him time.
A friend - total stranger?
Do you call everyone you know "a friend"?No...there's friend, aquaintence, stranger, enemy, and several dozen shades of grey.
Those who I would date in even a semi-serious relationship are friends

I have dated a total stranger. A very good looking guy I noticed at the bar. I dumped him 3 years later.
Or actually I just don't date. I meet people in various locations. Sometimes I meet someone I like (and someone who likes me) and in few days I realize that I'm in a new relationship. Of course that hasn't happened for a looong time as I've been with the same guy for 6 years.
Yeah, I'll go out with someone I meet in a bar who catches my interest...but it ain't dating, even if the evening is labled by one of us as a "date". What I'm talking about here is some sort of relationship. By the time I'm past those "let's hang out, just me and you" things, and into an actual relationship, they are a friend.

He didn't say anything because I had a boyfriend and he wasn't single all that time either. Shyness or low self-esteem most certainly aren't excuses for him :) I don't think he ever tried to give me any signs. He was good friends with my boyfriend (at the time) and he didn't want to come between us.
I can't explain why I felt betrayed. It's more about the thought that he sees me differently than I thought he would. Lying next to him on the beach or naked moon swims (with a lot of friends) weren't comfortable anymore.

Agreed. Or sometimes you don't go back all the way. You can be friends who have sex every once in a while (if both are single, of course) :) Worked for me with one bloke.
Sounds like he did the respectable thing - dumping your girl to go after your friends girl is horrible manners. That would be betraying both his girlfriend and his friend (your boyfriend). If either of you were seeing someone, it was not at all appropriate for him to pursue you - most especially not if you were dating a friend of his.

It also occurs to me that he probably made the right decision - sometimes a shy guy will not come forward with his feelings for you because he would rather have your friendship than nothing at all. Which is obviously the case here - speak up, lose the friendship.

So long as you were dating someone, you were being quite public that you were involved with his friend. Unless you had an open relationship, this indicates that any approaches from others would be rejected.

He did nothing wrong. Nothing at all.

He did nothing wrong. Nothing at all.
Oh, I'm not blaming him. He did just the right thing. (I realize using words like betrayed gives a different message. That's just my bad English. I don't know any better word for it.)


As for the rest, it's a matter of having the guts and the desire to talk it out without overreacting or blaming.

Agreed. We just didn't have the time for it. I moved and we didn't see each other for a long time.

Well, as per Sark and everyone's advice, I did. Emailed it though, because I didn't feel like waiting, and i'd probably muck it up thoroghly in person. I was fairly blunt. maybe too blunt?

No response yet though.

A blunt e-mail may be a bit too forward and impersonal. I would of asked if he'd like to get a coffee or something cheezy like a movie. I think he'd take it easier and be more confident about his decision, which ever it may be.

For me, I am in a pretty steady relationship approaching the first anniversary. I've known the person for three summers (I went to school in another city) and finally decided to move the relationship further. The thing is we were never close friends and both of us are pretty serious individuals. So a joking fooling around, hanging out sort of friendship wouldn't have worked.

For the relationship itself It's going slowly, but well, which is perfect for me.

I have also dated a close friend in the past. It actually turned out quite well. Really very little changed, other than the physical aspects.

Well, it wasn't the method that was the problem.

He replied the next day. Actually he messaged me and we talked about it for a while, which was alright. Said he was grateful that I was clear about it.

He didn't know, he was indicisive, he said he's bad at "feelings". Whatever that means. The way he described it, he likes his life the way it is, he's happy, he's probably leaving Canada after the end of next school year, he's a loner, he doesn't like commitment, he's not very good at knowing what he wants, and any relationship he thus got into would be "uncertain".

Arg. So apparently a relationship and love are just another notch on the belt. Another line on the resume, to complete at the appropriate time for this guy. It annoys me because he didn't say "I don't like you, go away," he gave all these excuses that he actually believes are valid. As if there would ever be a time that was less frought with responsibility and conflicts than third year uni to give something a shot. Anyway love isn't like that - it's dynamic and you might never get another chance at it with that person. It annoys me that he presumes that people that introverted, or like their own company, (ie, people like him and I) can't have a good relationship too. which is totally untrue.

missing in all this exposition is the one important thing - how he feels about me. Apparently "really great" isn't good enough. Apparently all these other things override even the smallest risk of distruption in his life's plan. It's not like relationships transform you, or make your otehr ambitions null and void.

bah. maybe it's all a way of saying that he doesn't like me much. But the guy has never had a girlfriend at all, so I'm inclined to believe that he believes all this babble about independance and uncertainty regardless of the person he's actually talking to. Which is me. Which is one of the relatively few girls I know that actually understand and get that. Get what it's like not to ever want to be attached at the fucking hip with anyone.

so now he hopes that we can stay good friends and all that. which we can, no problem. it's not like I'll be brining it up again. once was hard enough.

Except the close friend recognizes we could never work together. So, as to why she 'loves' me, I'm not quite sure.

Sometimes you can't help having feelings for someone even when you know you shouldn't. I've been there, unfortunately, and trust me, it's not a fun situation.

I've never been friends with someone first and then dated them. I've made several friends of people I have dated (whether these friendships lasted or not is another matter), but not the other way around.

Although I have had friends who expressed interest and I have told them that I didn't want to do anything to harm the friendship when really I just didn't reciprocate at all, but wanted to spare their feelings.

I've never been friends with someone first and then dated them. I've made several friends of people I have dated (whether these friendships lasted or not is another matter), but not the other way around.

Although I have had friends who expressed interest and I have told them that I didn't want to do anything to harm the friendship when really I just didn't reciprocate at all, but wanted to spare their feelings.

Forgive my bluntness, but that's basically cowardice, and/or the inability to communicate. That being the case, one wonders whether any relationship is warranted.

I'm 'dating' one of my best friends.

We've been together 6 months and are very happy :cool:

Friends are more valuable than girlfriends/boyfriends, in my opinion. I never date friends any more because every time I have, it's ended in disaster (similar reasons, but often going 'back' to friendship is something that a girl just can't handle).

Friends are more valuable than girlfriends/boyfriends, in my opinion. I never date friends any more because every time I have, it's ended in disaster (similar reasons, but often going 'back' to friendship is something that a girl just can't handle).

Just the girls, huh?

Look, just because you can't handle it and you and whoever were your friends couldn't sit down and talk like reasonable people doesn't mean others shouldn't do whatever they feel like doing.

Honestly, this whole paranoid notion is ridiculous. It assumes a level of maturity and communication roughly equivalent to a TV sitcom, which needs insanely stupid things to happen in order to generate ad revenue-- I mean, laughs.

I once told a friend I was attracted to him and had been for several years. He wasn't interested in me, but doing it helped me get over it (which was good considering the borderline obsessionally quality of it, I'd now describe it as 'limerent' but was rather confused at the time). I think our friendship has improved as a result. However, I still can't shake the thought that, in a sense, I was betraying him, as my feelings had been there all along and I'd allowed our friendship to develop with a subconscious goal in mind; but, we were both growing up, so I guess my lack of knowledge of my own feelings is acceptable.

I don't really understand how anyone could date a stranger, but I suppose I'm not very confidant nor good at talking to/trusting people I don't know very well. Considering my experiences, I plan not to let a friendship develop so far with someone I have hidden feelings for, as many probably couldn't deal with and and the friendship may be put in jeopardy.

Just the girls, huh?
When I make little comments like that, some overly sensitive people think I mean it in a sexist way. I suspect the comment about females not handling it well was not intended to imply that only females have emotional attachments that make post-relationship friendships difficult. Since I only date women, it is not uncommon for me to make general statements about my past partners in a similar manner - it isnt sexist, I just havent dated any men to which to apply the same comment.

Perhaps the poster did mean it as a sexist statement, but give him the benefit of the doubt.

Look, just because you can't handle it and you and whoever were your friends couldn't sit down and talk like reasonable people doesn't mean others shouldn't do whatever they feel like doing.
Rational mature adults shouldn't have any trouble. If you cannot sit down and discuss a relationship, you probably aren't really mature enough to have one.

My current girlfriend was my best friend for a year BEFORE we "got together," and still is my best friend.

I once told a friend I was attracted to him and had been for several years. He wasn't interested in me, but doing it helped me get over it (which was good considering the borderline obsessionally quality of it, I'd now describe it as 'limerent' but was rather confused at the time). I think our friendship has improved as a result. However, I still can't shake the thought that, in a sense, I was betraying him, as my feelings had been there all along and I'd allowed our friendship to develop with a subconscious goal in mind; but, we were both growing up, so I guess my lack of knowledge of my own feelings is acceptable.

I don't really understand how anyone could date a stranger, but I suppose I'm not very confidant nor good at talking to/trusting people I don't know very well. Considering my experiences, I plan not to let a friendship develop so far with someone I have hidden feelings for, as many probably couldn't deal with and and the friendship may be put in jeopardy.

Excellent word. Good post.

When I make little comments like that, some overly sensitive people think I mean it in a sexist way. I suspect the comment about females not handling it well was not intended to imply that only females have emotional attachments that make post-relationship friendships difficult. Since I only date women, it is not uncommon for me to make general statements about my past partners in a similar manner - it isnt sexist, I just havent dated any men to which to apply the same comment.

Perhaps the poster did mean it as a sexist statement, but give him the benefit of the doubt.


Rational mature adults shouldn't have any trouble. If you cannot sit down and discuss a relationship, you probably aren't really mature enough to have one.

Very well. BofD granted. I don't really believe in sexism anyway. We're different. It's simple.

Your last paragraph is spot on. Bravo.

Excellent word. Good post.

Thanks. Yeah, I read Tennov's book about 2 months ago after having read various websites about it previously. One of the most interesting books I've ever read, partly because I was nodding in agreement of the experiences described on almost every page.