NationStates Jolt Archive

Let's just say that you're now living in a dystopian society, and bear in mind that you're one of the drones of said society. A drone that has been force fed with the tenets of the society, a drone that has an unquestionable faith/gut feeling that the society is supposed to work this way. By the way, you're not Winston Smith, John the Savage, nor you're Thomas A. Anderson, you're just a simple drone.

So, taking all that into account, do you think you have the level of awareness that would bring you into questioning the society, that something's wrong? Do you have the will power to know that "there is no spoon" ?

If so, how do know? Books and information regarding the flaws of that society had been banned, or worse, rewritten to support the basic laws of said society. You're bombarded everyday by propaganda spam.

Can the human spirit be really coerced into obeying the will of others without any question? Well, it probably can, but after several generations of obeying without question, can an individual think of a revolutionary idea that goes against the norms of a dystopian society? If so, where did that idea came from anyways?

Let's just say that you're now living in a dystopian society, and bear in mind that you're one of the drones of said society. A drone that has been force fed with the tenets of the society, a drone that has an unquestionable faith/gut feeling that the society is supposed to work this way. By the way, you're not Winston Smith, John the Savage, nor you're Thomas A. Anderson, you're just a simple drone.

So, taking all that into account, do you think you have the level of awareness that would bring you into questioning the society, that something's wrong? Do you have the will power to know that "there is no spoon" ?

If so, how do know? Books and information regarding the flaws of that society had been banned, or worse, rewritten to support the basic laws of said society. You're bombarded everyday by propaganda spam.

Can the human spirit be really coerced into obeying the will of others without any question? Well, it probably can, but after several generations of obeying without question, can an individual think of a revolutionary idea that goes against the norms of a dystopian society? If so, where did that idea came from anyways?

Unless you reduce my IQ to dead average, I will, ultimately question things. You can't stop intelligent people from asking those questions. For instance, the Catholic Church kept (and keeps) trying to run things by keeping people ignorant - didn't work, people kept doing that annoying and, ultimately, revolutionary thing - thinking and questioning. You can't stop it, you just push it underground and eventually it bubbles up.

Unless you reduce my IQ to dead average, I will, ultimately question things. You can't stop intelligent people from asking those questions. For instance, the Catholic Church kept (and keeps) trying to run things by keeping people ignorant - didn't work, people kept doing that annoying and, ultimately, revolutionary thing - thinking and questioning. You can't stop it, you just push it underground and eventually it bubbles up.

this line from the OP...
a drone that has an unquestionable faith/gut feeling that the society is supposed to work this way. would pretty much answer your question.

Anyone resisting would be wrong in your eyes. any infraction you do would be deserving of the given punishment.

if that bolded word wasn't there. then yes. you could rise up by questioning what you see/hear/feel/experience... but with that word in there, nope. you're a drone.

Can the human spirit be really coerced into obeying the will of others without any question?Yes. That's called religion.

No. I couldn't resist because I'd be dead.

The entire purpose of my existence is to be the oddball. By my very nature, I can't exist as a drone. If I were a drone, I wouldn't be me anymore.

The two states of mind (drone and lunatic goofball) are mutually exclusive.

No. I couldn't resist because I'd be dead.

The entire purpose of my existence is to be the oddball. By my very nature, I can't exist as a drone. If I were a drone, I wouldn't be me anymore.

The two states of mind (drone and lunatic goofball) are mutually exclusive.You, my esteemed Lunatic Goofballs, are an attention whore. :D which does indeed make a drone existence impossible

No. I couldn't resist because I'd be dead.

The entire purpose of my existence is to be the oddball. By my very nature, I can't exist as a drone. If I were a drone, I wouldn't be me anymore.

The two states of mind (drone and lunatic goofball) are mutually exclusive.

never know... they may need someone to keep the Mud holes up to standard.

No. I couldn't resist because I'd be dead.

The entire purpose of my existence is to be the oddball. By my very nature, I can't exist as a drone. If I were a drone, I wouldn't be me anymore.

The two states of mind (drone and lunatic goofball) are mutually exclusive.

While not exactly an oddball, I'm afraid I could be no more a drone than our friend Lunatic here. As with him, drone-style thinking is mutually exclusive from my entire personality.

This thread is completly unecesary! We all know everyone does what they are supposed to do, when they are supposed to do, because they are supposed to do it.


Sorry... that was my inner drone speaking...

... for a better purpose of argument... let's just say that democracy and freedom is inherently dystopic.

What now?

Let's just say that you're now living in a dystopian society, and bear in mind that you're one of the drones of said society. A drone that has been force fed with the tenets of the society, a drone that has an unquestionable faith/gut feeling that the society is supposed to work this way. By the way, you're not Winston Smith, John the Savage, nor you're Thomas A. Anderson, you're just a simple drone.

So, taking all that into account, do you think you have the level of awareness that would bring you into questioning the society, that something's wrong? Do you have the will power to know that "there is no spoon" ?

If so, how do know? Books and information regarding the flaws of that society had been banned, or worse, rewritten to support the basic laws of said society. You're bombarded everyday by propaganda spam.

Can the human spirit be really coerced into obeying the will of others without any question? Well, it probably can, but after several generations of obeying without question, can an individual think of a revolutionary idea that goes against the norms of a dystopian society? If so, where did that idea came from anyways?

well i AM living in one, in the u.s., but in general i think the christo-themic dominant social values quallify generally. the u.s. just happens to be the big dominant player in promoting them.

anyway, what tells me something's fishy outside of the cannery on the warf, is my child-like inconsistency sense i was born with. that we all we're, even if most of us, in early childhood get brainwashed out of it by how we are raised. somehow i managed to hang on to mine. it was to me the prime and gratifying challange of my childhood to do so.

=^^=
.../\...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_consciousness

You should give this a cursory read, or better sources if you can get your hands on one.

... for a better purpose of argument... let's just say that democracy and freedom is inherently dystopic.

What now?

alternatives?

alternatives?

No, not alternatives,... how do you suspect that something you already told yourself as good and true, is... in a matter of fact,... cruelly false.

Like this :

Yes. That's called religion.

Say that you're a devout devotee in a society that knows no other gods besides this one,... how do you know if something's terribly done wrong (by our standards)? This questions have been boring a hole inside my head since i've read stuff like 1984.



You should give this a cursory read, or better sources if you can get your hands on one.

Yes, that is a good example, but in my question,... how does one reach that kind of consciousness when you have been warped by the society?

... for a better purpose of argument... let's just say that democracy and freedom is inherently dystopic.

What now?

if freedom includes freedom of information you will still question your society.

we can all see the utopian paradise of north korea and analyse whether or not that life would be better for us than the crappy democracy and freedom we have now

the north koreans, however, have to think up alternatives all on their own. they get no information on our lives. all they know is the lies their govt tells them about us. it takes a very strong mind to see alternatives where none exist.

The entire purpose of my existence is to be the oddball.

So when you're alone your existence is purposeless?

So when you're alone your existence is purposeless?

Let's just say that I'm not living up to my full potential.

I practice a lot. *nod*

It's usually one small thing that happens which causes you to question the entire system; I've read about dissidents during the Stalin era in the USSR who at first believed in his policies wholeheartedly, only to begin to question and ultimately reject them once they found out the truth.

Maybe a conflicting document, or a slip-up by the government, or something else...those small things plant the seed of doubt and eventually push you more and more towards dissidence.

It's usually one small thing that happens which causes you to question the entire system; I've read about dissidents during the Stalin era in the USSR who at first believed in his policies wholeheartedly, only to begin to question and ultimately reject them once they found out the truth.

Maybe a conflicting document, or a slip-up by the government, or something else...those small things plant the seed of doubt and eventually push you more and more towards dissidence.

Except that the Stalin-era Soviets still had living memory of another way. If you're never told of another way, the chances are very good that you'll never consider that there might be one.

Consider the Tokugawa Shogunate period in Japan. After only a few generations of isolation, all memory of another way of life disappeared. Peasents, who could have had a much better life outside Japan, didn't even try to leave, though there was really nothing to stop them. They had no conception of another way of living.

A true, long term dystopia would erase any idea of alternatives. The average person would never think of such a thing; and the few who either had to be taught of such possibilities (in order that they could act to prevent them) and the few above averages who might come to such an idea spontaneously would both be scrutinised against deviation - and liquidated if such came to pass.

a dystopia always has a ruling class, and believe it or not, sometimes it's the ruling class that performs the acts of revolution against itself.

If the submitted class was, as you say, completely submitted, to the extent that nobody ever rebelled against the system in any way, the revolution would sprout from higher up. It could be because of selfishness, or morals.

I submit the case of the Trujillo dictatorship in the Dominican Republic. Everyone was either in agreement with the regime or mortally scared of it, enough to not do anything about it. The revolutionary movement, called the 14th of july, only survived because of support among the wealthy youth. The sons of the people essential to sustain the dictatorship. Sons of generals, diplomats, higher-ups in the government... Sons of the people to which the dictatorship was CONVENIENT.

Both my grandfathers were in the movement, my paternal grandfather went on to become secretary-geneal of the dominican communist party, which sadly never amounted to much of anything. The other, however, is what I'm talking about here. He's about as right-wing as it gets without being a zealot, and yet, there he was, riding mercedes-benz and spraypainting slogans against the regime.

The same could be said about this dystopia, no system is foolproof. It's kind of a murphy's law, if it depends on one single thing not to fail, someday, it will.

Dystopias aren't realistically long-lived. Not only people are fallible (thus the State will eventually make one too many mistakes), they also have a limit. Furthermore, to quote a character from "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen": "Empires fall. No exceptions.".

I'd know because I have the internet and are thus exposed to everything a 14 year old thinks:p

I also have a mechanism where I immediately rebel if I'm asked to wear an all (light) Grey jumpsuit/everything around me is that bright headache inducing white

The two states of mind (drone and lunatic goofball) are mutually exclusive.
You forgot Playa Pimp.

I doubt that I'd be the revolutionary. I have always gotten by through figuring out how the game is played and playing along (or figuring out how to play a little "better" by taking shortcuts, etc.) rather than trying to buck the system entirely. My goal is to have a reasonably nice life, not to be a martyr.

I doubt that I'd be the revolutionary. I have always gotten by through figuring out how the game is played and playing along (or figuring out how to play a little "better" by taking shortcuts, etc.) rather than trying to buck the system entirely. My goal is to have a reasonably nice life, not to be a martyr.

In that you are anything but unusual. Few indeed are the revolutions that have been "popular uprising"; fewer still spontaneous. Generally, some one or group of charismatic leaders start the ball rolling, and the populace figures they're a better choice than the losers in government.

Most people won't rebel unless they personally get the shaft. Only if the rebel side shows that they have a real chance of victory do their numbers swell.