NationStates Jolt Archive

So recently my friend has decided to take on the side of "Tupac is still alive!" conspiracy mumbo jumbo. You know, the one where people use meaningless math to predict his return. Anyway, in mocking fashion, I decided to just say "you probably believe that the moon landings were a hoax, government did 9/11, Kurt Cobain's death was the product of some massive conspiracy, and aliens actually visit earth."

Of course, he's absolutely convinced also that he's seen a UFO in person. When I try to refute it by saying it's not scientifically credible, or that your eyes DON'T always tell the truth his reply is "he believes in FACTS, not mumbo jumbo that takes forever to prove." Reminds me of the typical creationist argument, though I don't think he's creationist.

Anyway, how exactly do you respond to these types? Normally, I'd just ignore them, but when friends insist that they've seen ghosts, aliens, or whatever crazy-ass conspiracy theory they believe in, how do you reply? Especially when they reject the scientific method as a way to verify a hypothesis...

Anyway, how exactly do you respond to these types?

Ignore them.

Of course, he's absolutely convinced also that he's seen a UFO in person. When I try to refute it by saying it's not scientifically credible,How exactly do you qualify yourself as someone to determine what is scientifically credible or not?
Personal experience for statistics?
Maybe he did. Maybe you didn't.
Just because something doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen to anyone.


Anyway, how exactly do you respond to these types? Normally, I'd just ignore them, but when friends insist that they've seen ghosts, aliens, or whatever crazy-ass conspiracy theory they believe in, how do you reply? Especially when they reject the scientific method as a way to verify a hypothesis...Ghosts and aliens aren't of any particular "crazy-ass conspiracy". Not to say people haven't formulated catchy ideas about the subjects, but they are not inherently any kind of "conspiracy".
Conspiracy means, in essence, "breathing together".
Religion, by design, is a conspiracy. Politics and political parties, by design, are thusly conspiracies as well.
A personal experience where a person can use only their best judgment and future research ISN'T a conspiracy.
A person believing in things they've never experienced, however, is someone who MAY BE indulging a conspiracy.

Ghosts and aliens aren't of any particular "crazy-ass conspiracy". Not to say people haven't formulated catchy ideas about the subjects, but they are not inherently any kind of "conspiracy".


Whatever. It's all pseudo-scientific nonsense. Maybe I confused the two because they tend to use the same tactics.

Whatever. It's all pseudo-scientific nonsense. Maybe I confused the two because they tend to use the same tactics.

Perhaps they lack a common context for communication to people without personal experience, thus seeming to the layperson as "same tactics".
The only argument with sincerity to it AGAINST alien intervention here is the likelihood of energy/resource usage required on the part of other species to make it from what's to be assumed as a hospitable environment to here.
Other than that, it's statistically PROBABLE that there is alien life.
As for ghosts, again, what are you using as an argument to qualify "pseudo-scientific"? Ectoplasm (Ghostbusters)? EVP (White Noise)?

What about that crazy conspiracy about the CIA spying on US citizens.....

oh

leaves

Perhaps they lack a common context for communication to people without personal experience, thus seeming to the layperson as "same tactics".
The only argument with sincerity to it AGAINST alien intervention here is the likelihood of energy/resource usage required on the part of other species to make it from what's to be assumed as a hospitable environment to here.
Other than that, it's statistically PROBABLE that there is alien life.
As for ghosts, again, what are you using as an argument to qualify "pseudo-scientific"? Ectoplasm (Ghostbusters)? EVP (White Noise)?

I never denied alien existence. In fact, I do believe it's quite probable. What I don't believe is that somehow we're being visited by humanoid (what a coincidence!) little aliens in round ships thousands of times each year.

As for ghosts, first of all -- how do you define ghost? For a ghost to exist, there would need to be some type of reaction after death where the matter from the ghost comes from, right? Couldn't we, then, logically measure this? And stuff concerning ectoplasm, electromagnetism, etc. has been tested. There's usually a logical reason behind it such as being in the vicinity of lights, electronic devices, or whatnot. Furthermore, out of the blue...these ghosthunters take random white noise to suddenly mean that there's ghosts? Where in the heck did they derive that conclusion from? Starting with a conclusion and then finding the evidence to "prove" it is, erm, not scientific at all..

I never denied alien existence. In fact, I do believe it's quite probable. Good thing there's a conspiracy to back you up there! :p
What I don't believe is that somehow we're being visited by humanoid (what a coincidence!) little aliens in round ships thousands of times each year. There's some measure of abductee reports that don't really qualify "humanoid" as the aggressor. "The Grays" are, to paraphrase Dilbert, "the Kleenex" of alien representation.

As for ghosts, first of all -- how do you define ghost?
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=ghost

For a ghost to exist, there would need to be some type of reaction after death where the matter from the ghost comes from, right? Couldn't we, then, logically measure this?It would stand to reason, yes. Problem with the nature of a phantasm or similar incidence is that, although there is occasional effect other than just visible apparitions, it doesn't stay constant for any particular amount of time.
And stuff concerning ectoplasm, electromagnetism, etc. has been tested. There's usually a logical reason behind it such as being in the vicinity of lights, electronic devices, or whatnot.The beauty of logic is that it works as the reason for any and everything. The trick is having all the right conditions through which to come to conclude an accurate assessment.
Furthermore, out of the blue...these ghosthunters take random white noise to suddenly mean that there's ghosts? Where in the heck did they derive that conclusion from? Starting with a conclusion and then finding the evidence to "prove" it is, erm, not scientific at all..
True. Lack of due scientific diligence is what separates the faithful from the educated.
By the same cleave, however, deciding something DOESN'T exist because you want it NOT to is as bad a lack of due diligence.

Find new friends who aren't idiots or 'attention whores'.

I found this on Wikipedia one time when I was looking up crap about some conspiracy theory. It's called True Believer Syndrome. Basically it says people believe in conspiracy theories because of a cognitive psychological disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_believer_syndrome

Release the hounds. :)

As always, xkcd knows:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/conspiracy_theories.png

http://xkcd.com/

everyone needs a hobby I guess

at least hes not drowning puppies ;)

IF you went back in time about 500+ years and told the average person the world was a sphere, they'd probrally not believe you.
Some conspiracy theories may yet be correct! There was a government funded report into the responsibility behind 9/11, but this might have been deception, just like when the catholic church put gallileo under house arrest for claiming the earth was not the centre of the universe.

/play: Third eye - tool

Anyway, how exactly do you respond to these types?

Tell them of the Bielefeld-conspiracy! (basically it is a hoax saying that the city Bielefeld in NRW does not exist. It 'proves its statements by asking: 1) Have you been in Bielefeld? 2) Do you know someone from Bielefeld? 3 Do you know someone who has been in Bielefeld and returned? For a normal member of the world population the answer to all 3 questions is 'no' :))

Tell them of the Bielefeld-conspiracy! (basically it is a hoax saying that the city Bielefeld in NRW does not exist. It 'proves its statements by asking: 1) Have you been in Bielefeld? 2) Do you know someone from Bielefeld? 3 Do you know someone who has been in Bielefeld and returned? For a normal member of the world population the answer to all 3 questions is 'no' :))1) Have you been to the moon? 2) Do you know someone from the moon? 3 Do you know someone who has been to the moon and returned?

1) Have you been to the moon? 2) Do you know someone from the moon? 3 Do you know someone who has been to the moon and returned?
1) no!
2) no.
3) no...

THERE IS NO MOON! THE MOON DOES NOT EXIST!

As I said, the Bielefeld-Verschwörung IS a hoax, not even its inventor takes seriously.

Edit: Great text in 'location', BTW!

Point out the anti-counterfieting threads in their (USA) currency and tell them it's how the Government tracks them. :D

I believe in the following conspiracies:


2pac is alive
Everyone but me is an alien
A conspiracy between Letterman, Britney Spears, Bush, Angelina Jolie, Duff man and George Washington caused 9/11
Oswald didn't kill JFK
JFK is still alive
Elvis is still alive
Booth didn't kill Lincoln
Lincoln is still alive
Aliens exist
George Bush is an alien
Ghosts exist
George Bush is a ghost
Canada is a figment of my imagination planted there by the illuminati
My grandma is the illuminati
JK Rowling is the person that really runs the US government
All the Harry potter books have chips in them to make us zombies
Ron Paul, Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich
Watergate was a stunt organized by JFK to screw nixon over
The cold war was a practical joke gone wrong
Hitler was a jew
Stalin was a Nazi
I'm a figment of my imagination
Homer Simpson is a CIA agent created to control us all
Canada
Mexico
Every country other then the USA

welll when my brother (51 years old) visited recently and revealed himself to be a 9/11 conspiracty theorist AND that he knew for sure that that plane that blew up over long island before that had been shot down by a US missle i ended up blaming it all on the (please pardon the phrase) "fucking queen of england"©.

i find it best to put off ALL potential conspiracies on the fucking queen of england©.

George Bush is an alien

George Bush is a ghost


Ghost aliens?

FINAL FANTASY: THE SPIRITS WITHIN WAS ABOUT THESE TWO CONSPIRACIES?!:eek:

There's nothing you can do. Confirmation bias pwns your petty logics.

There's nothing you can do. Confirmation bias pwns your petty logics.

QFT

Why the hell would aliens visit here when there are cooler places like Jupiter a moment away?

Why the hell would aliens visit here when there are cooler places like Jupiter a moment away?

Tacos. They come for the tacos. *nod*

Tacos. They come for the tacos. *nod*

Jupiter tacos have the extra heat that can only be provided by Io's boiling lakes of sulfur.

Tacos. They come for the tacos. *nod*

And the curry.

So recently my friend has decided to take on the side of "Tupac is still alive!" conspiracy mumbo jumbo. You know, the one where people use meaningless math to predict his return. Anyway, in mocking fashion, I decided to just say "you probably believe that the moon landings were a hoax, government did 9/11, Kurt Cobain's death was the product of some massive conspiracy, and aliens actually visit earth."

Of course, he's absolutely convinced also that he's seen a UFO in person. When I try to refute it by saying it's not scientifically credible, or that your eyes DON'T always tell the truth his reply is "he believes in FACTS, not mumbo jumbo that takes forever to prove." Reminds me of the typical creationist argument, though I don't think he's creationist.

Anyway, how exactly do you respond to these types? Normally, I'd just ignore them, but when friends insist that they've seen ghosts, aliens, or whatever crazy-ass conspiracy theory they believe in, how do you reply? Especially when they reject the scientific method as a way to verify a hypothesis...

Get him a woman.

I believe in the following conspiracies:


Oswald didn't kill JFK
JFK is still alive


Furthermore, JFK killed Oswald!:eek:

Elvis is dead.

JFK ate him alive and assumed his identity, note the extra pounds.

ive never understood why anyone gets hooked on minor conspiracy theories.

who gives a fuck whether or not tupac is really dead?

why would anyone who doesnt live in the woods of the american northwest care about bigfoot?

why do foreigners get all attached to the loch ness monster?

if elvis is really alive, he may as well be dead for all the difference it can possibly make to our lives.

why get into it at all?

I found this on Wikipedia one time when I was looking up crap about some conspiracy theory. It's called True Believer Syndrome. Basically it says people believe in conspiracy theories because of a cognitive psychological disorder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_believer_syndromeYup. Thankfully, the vast majority of the populace of earth is afflicted. All religious people are under that umbrella.
ALL of them.

IF you went back in time about 500+ years and told the average person the world was a sphere, they'd probrally not believe you.
Due scientific diligence, FTW.

Some conspiracy theories may yet be correct! Many of them are, to some degree. Difference between a series of musings and a series of observations and understandings, imnsho.

/play: Third eye - toolWell, of COURSE.

Release the hounds. :)

http://www.completerunning.com/running-blog-mark/wp-content/lghr0326.jpg