NationStates Jolt Archive

Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?

You presume the existence of a god. And absolute morality for that matter.

You presume the existence of a god. And absolute morality for that matter.

What you sed!

There is no definate answer to that question, as you are well aware of. My theory:

If God exists: God is good, thus what he says is good. It is not good because he commanded it, but because it is logically nescecerry and impossible to be otherwise.

god sets morality.

(supposing god exists and that you are religious)

many of the things that are moral or immoral have nothing to do with anything but pleasing god--keeping the sabbath holy, not swearing, conquering the phillistines.

Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?

Another way to ask the same question: Is God able to command anything which is not moral? And if He is, what should we do: Act according to His command, or act according to moral? What happens if we assert that acting against the command of God is immoral in itself?

if you need a god to dictate to you your morality then you are probably a sociopath and possibly a psychopath.

Another way to ask the same question: Is God able to command anything which is not moral? And if He is, what should we do: Act according to His command, or act according to moral? What happens if we assert that acting against the command of God is immoral in itself?

Then the answer would yes. Morality is a wholey human concern, God can certianly order acts that we may find immoral.

Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?
Answer your own question. This is one of my favorite exercises:

Pretend God has spoken to you personally. You are certain it is God, and He's speaking directly to you.

God says, "Ri-an, I want you to go torture a kitten to death."

Do you feel good about torturing the kitten to death? Don't worry about whether or not you would actually go through with it, just think about how it would feel to you. Would it feel moral for you to torture a kitten to death?

Ok, now imagine the same situation, but replace "kitten" with "baby."

Same questions.

Then the answer would yes. Morality is a wholey human concern, God can certianly order acts that we may find immoral.

i.e. God commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son.

There is no definate answer to that question, as you are well aware of. My theory:

If God exists: God is good, thus what he says is good. It is not good because he commanded it, but because it is logically nescecerry and impossible to be otherwise.

Thomas Aquinas says God exists, and I reckon he's smarter than everybody here.

As for morality, that's more an idea. It's more not doing the wrong thing.

It has to be moral due to being commanded by god, otherwise attempted murder of your own son would be immoral.

Thomas Aquinas says God exists, and I reckon he's smarter than everybody here.

so was aristotle and yet he was wrong about many things.

do you base your faith on the intelligence of st thomas aquinas??



As for morality, that's more an idea. It's more not doing the wrong thing.

...in what i have done and what i have failed to do...

in a universe with a god who is very ready to punish you with eternal torment, its it all his game? if you defy god's morality you end up not just facing a few years in jail but an eternity of pain.

Answer your own question. This is one of my favorite exercises:

Pretend God has spoken to you personally. You are certain it is God, and He's speaking directly to you.

God says, "Ri-an, I want you to go torture a kitten to death."

Do you feel good about torturing the kitten to death? Don't worry about whether or not you would actually go through with it, just think about how it would feel to you. Would it feel moral for you to torture a kitten to death?

Ok, now imagine the same situation, but replace "kitten" with "baby."

Same questions.

I don't understand what emotivism has to do with anything.

in a universe with a god who is very ready to punish you with eternal torment, its it all his game? if you defy god's morality you end up not just facing a few years in jail but an eternity of pain.

Not all versions of the christian God require belief in that (granted quite a few though).

Not all versions of the christian God require belief in that (granted quite a few though).

a christian god would never command you to do the kinds of things he had the ancient hebrews do. no sacrificing of children, no killing of other tribes down to the last man.

if you are a christian and you hear god tell you to torture a baby, you can be sure that its psychosis rather than revelation.

a christian god would never command you to do the kinds of things he had the ancient hebrews do. no sacrificing of children, no killing of other tribes down to the last man.

if you are a christian and you hear god tell you to torture a baby, you can be sure that its psychosis rather than revelation.

I meant belief in eternal torture,.

I meant belief in eternal torture,.

yeah i know. no need to discuss that since the vast majority of christians believe that you end up in a bad way if you dont make it to heaven. the details differ but its never pleasant.

Plato's Apology is a great read.

The traditional answer is that goodness is part of God's nature, and so while He cannot command evil there is no objective definition of evil outside of Him. I'm not convinced that this is an adequate answer myself but there you go...

Thomas Aquinas says God exists, and I reckon he's smarter than everybody here.

As for morality, that's more an idea. It's more not doing the wrong thing.

Heh and how do you define the wrong thing?

i.e. God commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son.

Exactly.

I don't understand what emotivism has to do with anything.

Really, then you must make for a very strange human?

Really, then you must make for a very strange human?

I'm guessing you completely misunderstood what I meant.

Plato's Apology is a great read.

The traditional answer is that goodness is part of God's nature, and so while He cannot command evil there is no objective definition of evil outside of Him. I'm not convinced that this is an adequate answer myself but there you go...

I agree with you it is a wholey inadequate answer.

Morality is a human thing, it does not concern God. God is good? Yeah how come then? Ohh yes I know this answer, it is because we athromorphasise God, give God human traits.

God is not good, nor is God evil, God is all. or as God says I AM.

I AM, what we may ask? Just I AM, what does that mean?

God is everything. Good and bad are facets of humanity, if we need to say God is good, better to reconise that God must also be evil.

I agree with you it is a wholey inadequate answer.

Morality is a human thing, it does not concern God. God is good? Yeah how come then? Ohh yes I know this answer, it is because we athromorphasise God, give God human traits.

God is not good, nor is God evil, God is all. or as God says I AM.

I AM, what we may ask? Just I AM, what does that mean?

God is everything. Good and bad are facets of humanity, if we need to say God is good, better to reconise that God must also be evil.

You need to recognize that this kind of question is mainly targeted at christians, jews and muslims, and that it would be hard to be a christian without believing in an objective sin. Whatever the situation is with your interpretation of God is not universally true, so stop speaking as if it is.

I'm guessing you completely misunderstood what I meant.

Ten little words I had to gain context, it is possible that I have misunderstood your intent.

You need to recognize that this kind of question is mainly targeted at christians, jews and muslims, and that it would be hard to be a christian without believing in an objective sin. Whatever the situation is with your interpretation of God is not universally true, so stop speaking as if it is.

Sorry?

What are you on about. The OP asked about God and morality, nowhere there was it mentioned only one perception of God. Also this is an open forum, I choose to talk how I will, contribute what I will.

Would you for example take any notice of me if I was to tell you to stop talking in the manor you choose? Why instead of reply to me, did you just not choose to ignore my comments?

People are strange!

Although I believe in a God, he is not neccisarily moral. I know nothing about him. One of the reasons I offer him no worship (also, he doesnt need any). If he is a moral god, I would follow him. If he is, by my definition an immoral god, I would try to find a spiritual resistance movement ("The Devil" if you will) and work against him.

Allah is not good. Allah is a bad ass. Allah will fuck you up, and feel no guilt.