NationStates Jolt Archive

Can union’s attack video sink the GOP candidate’s presidential plan?
WASHINGTON - If there was one lesson of the 2004 election cycle, it was respond to attacks quickly and directly. In the summer of 2004, John Kerry let a slowly building media campaign against his Vietnam War experience explode into a debacle. From that campaign a new phrase entered the political lexicon: “swift boating.” Now it appears that Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani may have his own “swift boaters.”

Now the International Association of Fire Fighters, the union for professional firefighters with a long history of support for Democratic candidates, is getting into the act with a 13-minute video that is essentially a long attack ad against Giuliani’s support for firefighters when he was mayor of New York. It is buttressed by a comprehensive Web site titled “ Rudy Giuliani: Urban Legend.”

Both the video and the Web site were unveiled Wednesday. Simultaneously, the video is being uplinked to YouTube and at least a handful of other Internet video sites like video.google.com.

Campaigning on tragedy
Many firefighters are incensed by Giuliani’s use of 9/11 in his presidential campaign, and they are determined to pierce what they call the “myth of Giuliani,” said Harold Schaitberger, international president of the union.

Schaitberger said in an interview on MSNBC’s “Hardball” that union members were offended that Giuliani, who was mayor during the Sept. 11 attacks, is using the tragedy to raise money and create a theme for his presidential campaign, and they claim that he is distorting the truth to do it.

“He’s out and around the country ... trying to sign up our members so he can use them as a backdrop,” Schaitberger said.

The video uses testimonials from a half-dozen firefighters and relatives of firefighters who died in the World Trade Center attack. And while the arguments aren’t completely new, when coupled with the images of rescue workers at the World Trade Center site, the video is powerfully effective and potentially damaging to the Giuliani campaign.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19707130/

Here's their link:
http://www.rudy-urbanlegend.com/

Difference here of course, is that in this case (unlike Kerry's swiftboaters) what the firefighters say is true.

I for one am happy thinking about Ruddy squirming over this. There's something about him I just do not like.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19707130/

Here's their link:
http://www.rudy-urbanlegend.com/

Difference here of course, is that in this case (unlike Kerry's swiftboaters) what the firefighters say is true.

I for one am happy thinking about Ruddy squirming over this. There's something about him I just do not like.
Err...are we certain about that? Just because it targets the other side doesn't automatically mean it's true.

Not that I necessarily doubt it, mind...I just want a bit of back-up proof rather than the word of these Swift Boaters. I don't like Swift Boaters no matter who they target.

There's probably an element of truth to both of them, but I think that they distract a heck of alot more than they actually add substance to a campaign. However, I think that the Giuliani 'swift-boaters' might actually be more relevant than the Kerry ones.

But overall, I think 529s running ads are bad for the republic. They turn more voters cynical and, if it is possible, degrade the level of debate even more so than it has already been degraded by the pundits and the politicians themselves.

However, one thing about these 'swift-boat' groups does tickle my funny-bone. It's that ever amusing law of unintended consequences... Congress decides to 'compromise' on something and we get the horrendously unconstitutional McCain-Feingold campaign finance act; next thing you know 'swift-boat' groups pop up and really piss people off.

Err...are we certain about that? Just because it targets the other side doesn't automatically mean it's true.

Not that I necessarily doubt it, mind...I just want a bit of back-up proof rather than the word of these Swift Boaters. I don't like Swift Boaters no matter who they target.
Oh, I'm with you on this. I think any of these privately-funded smear campaigns are pretty low. For a start they answer to no-one, so can pretty much say what they like. A politician who decides on a libel suit runs the risk on generating more publicity for them - and having the media focus solely on their claims over his/her campaign aims. But if said politician ignores them (a la Kerry), it's seen as tacit admission that they're telling the truth. The politician's damned either way.
Also, they lower the bar yet again as to what is acceptable in politicking and eventually their tactics become the norm. Then there's the shady side of who exactly are they getting the funding from and why. Plus of course it represents a skewered viewpoint. For all we know the majority of firefighters might in fact like Rudy but a few hate him - and they're the few with the funds to get on TV, leading us to think all NY firefighters hate Rudy. In much the same way the swiftboaters appeared to represent all veterans who had served with Kerry, when that wasn't the case at all.

That said, I don't like the way Rudy has used 9/11 and the firefighters (epesh riding on the firefighters heroics and sacrifice on that day) for his own political gain - and thus enjoy seeing a backlash against it.


If truth be told, I just made that comment about Kerry's swiftboaters to wind up ppl on this forum like RO and Myr.
I know. I'm a bad person for doing that.

Righto then. Good to know.

...

Wait, why do you care all that much about the American presidential election? I thought you were a Kiwi living in Hong Kong. :confused:

Righto then. Good to know.

...

Wait, why do you care all that much about the American presidential election? I thought you were a Kiwi living in Hong Kong. :confused:
A few reasons:
The US is the most influential country on Earth, which means pretty much everyones will be affected by it's politics. So it's good to keep up with what's happening there.
I've been on this forum too long and have been sucked into the petty maelstrom that is US politics
Finally - and most importantly to me personally - the HK$ is tied to the US$. Thus if the US$ goes down, what I earn drops in relation to what I'd earn back in NZ. selfish reason I know, but I'm a selfish person.
The US$ has dropped nearly 40% against the Kiwi$ in the last year, which hurts a lot. I paid $2500NZ off my NZ student loan at the beginning of this year, yet in HK$ terms I now owe more than I did before I paid that $2k. :mad:

the union for professional firefighters with a long history of support for Democratic candidates

So we have a firefighters union, who supports the democrats, going after a republican? Nothing new here.

They appear to have some points at the outset, but I reserve judgment until more is known. Seems to me they're mad Guliani was like any other politician until 9/11.

The recovery thing, if true is quite damning though. If true.

That said, I don't like the way Rudy has used 9/11 and the firefighters (epesh riding on the firefighters heroics and sacrifice on that day) for his own political gain - and thus enjoy seeing a backlash against it.


Its called political capital for a reason. What is he supposed to use it for?

Giuliani criticizes attack as partisan
The Giuliani campaign issued statements pointing to the IAFF’s history of endorsing Democratic candidates and noting Schaitberger’s affiliation with the 2004 Kerry campaign and the Democratic Leadership Council. It quoted a retired New York firefighter saying “firefighters know the difference between politics and leadership.”

And it released a statement from Howard Safir, Giuliani’s fire commissioner and then police commissioner in New York, praising the former mayor’s support for firefighters on and after 9/11. “Firefighters across the country have no greater friend than Rudy Giuliani,” Safir said.

And in the same article, it points to the otherside criticizing it. Good. I love coverage. The IAFF should have waited on this until after the primaries. Then it would be effective. Launching this in the primaries was stupid.

Its called political capital for a reason. What is he supposed to use it for?

So if someone, Democrat, Independent or Space alien, ran on a platform that portrayed some 3000 coffins with American corpses in them, you'd have no problem with it?

Its called political capital for a reason. What is he supposed to use it for?

The way I understand the term political capital, it's using your personal popularity to push through unpopular or borderline legislation. I don't know what the hell you're describing, but it doesn't sound like political capital to me.

The way I understand the term political capital, it's using your personal popularity to push through unpopular or borderline legislation. I don't know what the hell you're describing, but it doesn't sound like political capital to me.

That's because, it is not political capital.

There's a lesson in here, I think, about the dangers of trying to create a one-issue election.