NationStates Jolt Archive

Tonight at 7pm GMT the Communications Workers Union will enter into their second 24 hour strike in their pay dispute with the Royal Mail. They have refused an offer of a 2.4% raise, well below the level of inflation, whilst Adam Crozier (you remember him? He did such a good a job at the FA :rolleyes:) Royal Mail cheif executive remains the highest paid civil servant in the land. Royal Mail have refused to even negotiate, inexplicably stating the union are demanding 24% (not true) and stating they are generally underworked and overpaid. I for one will be supporting the posties.

Thoughts?

Jolly good show post workers! Give 'em what for is what I say. You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Jolly good show post workers! Give 'em what for is what I say. You have nothing to lose but your chains!

What is the strike in aid off? What are they after?

Most public sector workers are getting under inflation pay rises this year - I can't find the link, but I remember a news story where the government decided that it would do so in order to control inflation, (Because that's not the Bank of England's job, is it now?) although Royal Mail isn't quite as connected to the government as the public sector 'proper'. Personally, I think any government (or business) prepared to effectively cut wages should have the responsibility to deal with the consequences, although, no doubt, the Unions will still support and fund Labour , who is at this moment in time the trade union movement's most dangerous enemy.

What is the strike in aid off? What are they after?
Inflation rate pay rise.

How odd. I actually support the postal workers. An inflation pay rise really should be a minimum in the public sector.

How odd. I actually support the postal workers. An inflation pay rise really should be a minimum in the public sector.
You're getting soft.:p

Inflation rate pay rise.

Ahhh yes, then good on them.

How odd. I actually support the postal workers. An inflation pay rise really should be a minimum in the public sector.

You know a strike is worthwhile when even the most disgusting reactionary Thatcherites are supporting it.

You're getting soft.:p

Nah. My relatives work in the public sector.:D

Nah. My relatives work in the public sector.:D

Damn it. For a moment I was hoping you might have started to come around and be sensible. Looks like we've still got work to do on that front.

As for the postal workers, keep up the strike.

...although, no doubt, the Unions will still support and fund Labour, who is at this moment in time the trade union movement's most dangerous enemy.


Crazy world British Leftist politics eh?

Blast, forgot about that. Fax it is then.

I think we should introduce a law which says that, in any one year, Members of Parliament cannot receive a pay rise which is proportionally greater than the lowest pay rise given to public sector workers.

I think we should introduce a law which says that, in any one year, Members of Parliament cannot receive a pay rise which is proportionally greater than the lowest pay rise given to public sector workers.

MP's?! Voting for limiting thier own pay rises? Political blasphemy!

Tonight at 7pm GMT the Communications Workers Union will enter into their second 24 hour strike in their pay dispute with the Royal Mail. They have refused an offer of a 2.4% raise, well below the level of inflation, whilst Adam Crozier (you remember him? He did such a good a job at the FA :rolleyes:) Royal Mail cheif executive remains the highest paid civil servant in the land. Royal Mail have refused to even negotiate, inexplicably stating the union are demanding 24% (not true) and stating they are generally underworked and overpaid. I for one will be supporting the posties.

Thoughts?

Apparently the union is asking for 27% over 5 years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252202.stm

unfortunately the royal mail is losing money hand over fist, iirc. while i agree with the posties (i talk to our postman and the bloke at the depot we go to almost every night), there is a wider issue here. the depot guy last night was saying that the unfair thing is the regulator requires the RM to charge a set price, which is above what they could charge. this is in an effort to give the private sector alternatives (DHL, parcelforce, etc) a chance, to the obvious detriment of the RM. what is the point of compounding public sector inefficiency with set price minimums which only serve to nullify the point of a nationalised public service?

though that may apply more to shipment of boxes and business stuff, rather than just letters...

unfortunately the royal mail is losing money hand over fist, iirc. while i agree with the posties (i talk to our postman and the bloke at the depot we go to almost every night), there is a wider issue here. the depot guy last night was saying that the unfair thing is the regulator requires the RM to charge a set price, which is above what they could charge. this is in an effort to give the private sector alternatives (DHL, parcelforce, etc) a chance, to the obvious detriment of the RM. what is the point of compounding public sector inefficiency with set price minimums which only serve to nullify the point of a nationalised public service?

though that may apply more to shipment of boxes and business stuff, rather than just letters...So... if the capitalist theory that the public sector is ineffcient seems not to be the case, then it isn't the theory that's wrong, but reality. Hence laws mus be passed to make the public sector ineffcient.

Seems entirely rational to me. I have no idea what you're complaining about.

Truth be told, I didn't actually notice the first postal strike. Meh.

Anyway, doesn't more postal companies mean more delieveries vehicles on the road, hence more emissions, and therefore bad for the environment?

Fire them all! The civilized world has no use for such an archaic parasite anymore.

Tonight at 7pm GMT the Communications Workers Union will enter into their second 24 hour strike in their pay dispute with the Royal Mail. They have refused an offer of a 2.4% raise, well below the level of inflation, whilst Adam Crozier (you remember him? He did such a good a job at the FA :rolleyes:) Royal Mail cheif executive remains the highest paid civil servant in the land. Royal Mail have refused to even negotiate, inexplicably stating the union are demanding 24% (not true) and stating they are generally underworked and overpaid. I for one will be supporting the posties.

Thoughts?

I'd like to offer my support to my counterparts and brothers across the pond.

Fire them all! The civilized world has no use for such an archaic parasite anymore.
Dude, our entire country relies on post just to keep it's economy going.

i'm fully in support of their cause, but i'm awaiting significant moneys through the post at the moment, damnit, i need that money!

I think we should introduce a law which says that, in any one year, Members of Parliament cannot receive a pay rise which is proportionally greater than the lowest pay rise given to public sector workers.

How about they get paid whatever the median salary is?

When they live like the average person they'll understand what the average person needs.

Apparently the union is asking for 27% over 5 years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252202.stm

Note that story quotes RM as saying that, not the CWU. Surely the union are the best persons to ask what they are demanding.

Tonight at 7pm GMT the Communications Workers Union will enter into their second 24 hour strike in their pay dispute with the Royal Mail. They have refused an offer of a 2.4% raise, well below the level of inflation, whilst Adam Crozier (you remember him? He did such a good a job at the FA :rolleyes:) Royal Mail cheif executive remains the highest paid civil servant in the land. Royal Mail have refused to even negotiate, inexplicably stating the union are demanding 24% (not true) and stating they are generally underworked and overpaid. I for one will be supporting the posties.

Thoughts?
Fire every last one of them. Like we could resurrect Ronald Regan and make that happen...

Dude, our entire country relies on post just to keep it's economy going.
It would run better if the contract were let out to private industry. UPS or FedEx would run a much better postal system than a government. They've already proved that with package delivery and express delivery, I don't think door-to-door mail would be any exception.

It would run better if the contract were let out to private industry.

Yeah, especially since that's worked extremely well for the railways, gas, electricity and water supplies.

Yeah, especially since that's worked extremely well for the railways, gas, electricity and water supplies.

What...whats.. that smell, umm smells like .. yeah... sarcasm!:eek:

It would run better if the contract were let out to private industry. UPS or FedEx would run a much better postal system than a government. They've already proved that with package delivery and express delivery, I don't think door-to-door mail would be any exception.

not true. the RM recons its 20% less efficient than TNT or Parcelforce or whoever (edit: for SORTING), but also says it could be 60% more efficient if they had the technology the private sector people have bought in.

plus the government regulator forces the RM to charge higher prices than its competitors. without that the RM wouldn't be losing business, as it would be able to compete and draw on its strengths of economies of scale.

What...whats.. that smell, umm smells like .. yeah... sarcasm!:eek:

Refused Party Program? Sarcastic? Never.

It is as Infinite Revolution stated earlier; when the capitalist theory and reality conflict, it is reality which is incorrect.

It would run better if the contract were let out to private industry. UPS or FedEx would run a much better postal system than a government. They've already proved that with package delivery and express delivery, I don't think door-to-door mail would be any exception.

Try again Robocon. Royal mail is cheaper and more efficient than any private operator in the UK. It is because of unfair trading practices forcing Royal Mail to charge above what they need to that they have started to lose money. Couple in with this the fact that executive pay at RM is out of control and you have a recipe for disaster.

Hmm.

When I want to communicate with friends, family or businesses, I use the phone or email, or IM.

If I really need to send paperwork (and that's rare), I use Federal Express.

Packages go UPS (United Parcel Service, not the United States Postal Service).

I do all my bills online.

90% of my regular mail is junk mail - and goes into the trash unread.

The government run mail system here in the US is more of a nuisance than anything else - my mailbox is like a spam-filled email box that I constantly have to empty.

I see no real need for a US Postal Service at this point.

Hmm.

When I want to communicate with friends, family or businesses, I use the phone or email, or IM.

If I really need to send paperwork (and that's rare), I use Federal Express.

Packages go UPS (United Parcel Service, not the United States Postal Service).

I do all my bills online.

90% of my regular mail is junk mail - and goes into the trash unread.

The government run mail system here in the US is more of a nuisance than anything else - my mailbox is like a spam-filled email box that I constantly have to empty.

I see no real need for a US Postal Service at this point.

There is no comparison between Royal Mail and the US Postal Service, please stop implying there is.

There is no comparison between Royal Mail and the US Postal Service, please stop implying there is.

I'm not. Stop kneejerking to idiocy.

I'm saying that if the strike was occuring here, fuck the postal workers.

Are people really still using snail mail in the UK?

I'm not. Stop kneejerking to idiocy.

I'm saying that if the strike was occuring here, fuck the postal workers.

Are people really still using snail mail in the UK?

Of course they do because the RM offer a high quality service (not as good as they previously did but hey thats market forces for you), cheaper than private companies. Try reading the thread.

Oh, and the strike is not occuring there, so instead of trying to make false comparisons, try commenting on the issue at hand.

I've actually been wondering all day why my dad didn't go to work today :p

iirc they have been tying to negotiate this for months now (as shown by all the junk mail from the union), come to think of it I can't remember a time when there wasn't a pay dispute with RM!

I've actually been wondering all day why my dad didn't go to work today :p

iirc they have been tying to negotiate this for months now (as shown by all the junk mail from the union), come to think of it I can't remember a time when there wasn't a pay dispute with RM!

But this is the first national industrial action in 25 years. Some of the right wing press have tried to portray the posties as extremists and malcontents, but i don't think a 25 year record of no action exactly backs that up do you? BTW the press and the right wing tried to do the same with the firemen 10 years ago.

There is no comparison between Royal Mail and the US Postal Service, please stop implying there is.

I'm curious, why do you say that?

It would run better if the contract were let out to private industry. UPS or FedEx would run a much better postal system than a government. They've already proved that with package delivery and express delivery, I don't think door-to-door mail would be any exception.

Is RM the only organization allowed to deliver letters and such (non-packages) like the USPS? There is no competition, no incentive for improvement. For packages, the competition breeds the speed and reliability in order to keep up fiscally. No matter who runs it it won't be as efficient as package service.

In other words, there is no reason for them to make the door-to-door mail quicker other than customer satisfaction. It wouldn't increase profits.

Not to mention a lack of oversight.

Hmm.

When I want to communicate with friends, family or businesses, I use the phone or email, or IM.

If I really need to send paperwork (and that's rare), I use Federal Express.

Packages go UPS (United Parcel Service, not the United States Postal Service).

I do all my bills online.

90% of my regular mail is junk mail - and goes into the trash unread.

The government run mail system here in the US is more of a nuisance than anything else - my mailbox is like a spam-filled email box that I constantly have to empty.

I see no real need for a US Postal Service at this point.

well people in this country use the post quite a lot. especially business to business, as paper > electronic in a legal sense (usually).

the banks also use post a lot rather than e-banking. why, i don't know. i used e-banking for a while before they locked me out for using the wrong password.


royal mail also deliver post & small packages in a way that the other private companies just can't do because its not efficient enough. posties actually delivering your post to your door, for a whole street/town/city. DHL tried to do this service up in Manchester but couldn't even manage to get the pilot scheme together. RM is a public service, for the public benefit. as such public benefit > efficiency, imho.

I'm curious, why do you say that?

People here love kneejerking.

But this is the first national industrial action in 25 years.

I remember a strike in November-August time last year actually (though by all means that could of been local)

i don't think a 25 year record of no action exactly backs that up do you?

well currently RM is trying to pay postal workers to go on early retirement, my point is RM is in allot of trouble and they may full well be unable to afford to pay workers as it is

not true. the RM recons its 20% less efficient than TNT or Parcelforce or whoever (edit: for SORTING), but also says it could be 60% more efficient if they had the technology the private sector people have bought in.

plus the government regulator forces the RM to charge higher prices than its competitors. without that the RM wouldn't be losing business, as it would be able to compete and draw on its strengths of economies of scale.
How does the RM quantify efficiency?
Where're the budget figures that show that RM runs a surplus?

There is no comparison between Royal Mail and the US Postal Service, please stop implying there is.

Heh I love it when people do that! Please stop saying that! Here's an idea, why don't you just ignore it?

Is RM the only organization allowed to deliver letters and such (non-packages) like the USPS? There is no competition, no incentive for improvement. For packages, the competition breeds the speed and reliability in order to keep up fiscally. No matter who runs it it won't be as efficient as package service.

In other words, there is no reason for them to make the door-to-door mail quicker other than customer satisfaction. It wouldn't increase profits.

Not to mention a lack of oversight.

hehe reminds me of something Jack Dee says:

i'm sick of people complaining the post [Royal Mail] is too expensive, especially every time they add a penny onto the price of stamps. i mean, i'd like to see how far you can get with your fucking 26p train ticket:mad:

:D

if i want to post something, it costs me 26p. if i want to send a package, it costs probably at least a fiver. yeah pacakages are bigger, but the RM is fucking fantastic value when you think about it.

How does the RM quantify efficiency?

letters/packages sorted per hour, iirc

Where're the budget figures that show that RM runs a surplus?


i don't know, i didn't say it was. but running on a surplus isn't neccessary for a public body. nor is it necessary for that public body to make use of its economies of scale and pass that onto the consumer.

my point was that the RM is being forced to overcharge the consumer (for parcels) because otherwise the private sector wouldn't be able to compete, largely due - i'm sure - not to efficiency gains (it is a public body after all...), but to economies of scale.


its public service for public benefit in action! :)

Fire every last one of them. Like we could resurrect Ronald Regan and make that happen...
Yeah. Next time someone offers you a pay cut, and you can't do nowt about it, I'll quote that back at you.

It would run better if the contract were let out to private industry. UPS or FedEx would run a much better postal system than a government. They've already proved that with package delivery and express delivery, I don't think door-to-door mail would be any exception.
Privatisation hasn't improved any other public services, including water and the railways, and I don't see why privatisation would improve Royal Mail.

RM is a public service, for the public benefit. as such public benefit > efficiency, imho.

Funny, the US Postal Service is a public service, for the public benefit, and it can't find its ass from a hole in the ground.

Federal Express is far, far more efficient than the US Postal Service.

Ever wonder why the US Postal Service contracts with FedEx here in the US to do most of the overnight delivery the US Postal Service supposedly has? Because FedEx doesn't lose the package, and it gets there on time.

Funny, the US Postal Service is a public service, for the public benefit, and it can't find its ass from a hole in the ground.

Federal Express is far, far more efficient than the US Postal Service.

Ever wonder why the US Postal Service contracts with FedEx here in the US to do most of the overnight delivery the US Postal Service supposedly has? Because FedEx doesn't lose the package, and it gets there on time.

very good. but that's america, now, isn't it?

Funny, the US Postal Service is a public service, for the public benefit, and it can't find its ass from a hole in the ground.

Federal Express is far, far more efficient than the US Postal Service.

Ever wonder why the US Postal Service contracts with FedEx here in the US to do most of the overnight delivery the US Postal Service supposedly has? Because FedEx doesn't lose the package, and it gets there on time.

Doesn't mean they could handle postage demands.

very good. but that's america, now, isn't it?

Yes. Just saying that just because something is a "public service" doesn't mean it isn't a pile of steaming crap.

Doesn't mean they could handle postage demands.

Apparently, they've lost enough first class mail over the years, and lost enough overnight packages, that businesses and individuals send more "first class mail" through Fed Ex alone than the Postal Service does (other than spammy adverts and bills).

Apparently, the vast majority of Postal Service mail in the US is spammy adverts.

Hmm.

When I want to communicate with friends, family or businesses, I use the phone or email, or IM.

If I really need to send paperwork (and that's rare), I use Federal Express.

Packages go UPS (United Parcel Service, not the United States Postal Service).

I do all my bills online.

90% of my regular mail is junk mail - and goes into the trash unread.

The government run mail system here in the US is more of a nuisance than anything else - my mailbox is like a spam-filled email box that I constantly have to empty.

I see no real need for a US Postal Service at this point.

Just because YOU don't see the need for or use the post office, doesn't mean that a lot of other people don't. Wedding invitations, birthday/holiday/sympathy cards, bills (there are still a lot of people that don't pay them online), important financial information, etc get delivered everyday.

As far as you saying that 90% of the mail you recieve is junk mail, that's your fault. You can take steps to stop that mail from even getting to you, by contacting the senders and requesting your name be taken off their lists.

Funny, the US Postal Service is a public service, for the public benefit, and it can't find its ass from a hole in the ground.

Federal Express is far, far more efficient than the US Postal Service.

Ever wonder why the US Postal Service contracts with FedEx here in the US to do most of the overnight delivery the US Postal Service supposedly has? Because FedEx doesn't lose the package, and it gets there on time.

The USPS uses Fedex for their planes (it's cheaper than having a fleet of their own planes).

Also, since Express mail has a money back guarantee to be there by the next day (as long as the parcel has been mailed by a certain time), the post office gives those parcels priority, often sending them out before the regular mail is finished being sorted.

Doesn't mean they could handle postage demands.
Doesn't the USPS hire out alot of their work to the UPS?
Not that the UPS is any better. If I had a choice between UPS and FedEx, I'm going FedEx.

Doesn't the USPS hire out alot of their work to the UPS?
Not that the UPS is any better. If I had a choice between UPS and FedEx, I'm going FedEx.

Maybe some packages, but not residential mail.

Doesn't the USPS hire out alot of their work to the UPS?
Not that the UPS is any better. If I had a choice between UPS and FedEx, I'm going FedEx.

NO! The only time I've seen a UPS truck at the post office, was during the annual NALC (National Association of Letter Carriers) food drive. That's because they help out with transportation of the food to the food banks, once the carriers collect it on their routes.

As far as you saying that 90% of the mail you recieve is junk mail, that's your fault. You can take steps to stop that mail from even getting to you, by contacting the senders and requesting your name be taken off their lists.

"Occupant"
The courts have ruled that they can send all the mail they want to your mailbox addressed to Occupant. Free speech.