NationStates Jolt Archive

We are so much safer with Republicans in charge (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/12/us/12nuke.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin).

WASHINGTON, July 11 — Undercover Congressional investigators set up a bogus company and obtained a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in March that would have allowed them to buy the radioactive materials needed for a so-called dirty bomb.

The investigators, from the Government Accountability Office, demonstrated once again that the security measures put in place since the 2001 terrorist attacks to prevent radioactive materials from getting into the wrong hands are insufficient, according to a G.A.O. report, which is scheduled to be released at a Senate hearing Thursday.

“Given that terrorists have expressed an interest in obtaining nuclear material, the Congress and the American people expect licensing programs for these materials to be secure,” said Gregory D. Kutz, an investigator at the accountability office, in testimony prepared for the hearing.

The bomb the investigators could have built would not have caused widespread damage or even high- level contamination. But it still could have had serious consequences, particularly economic ones, in any city where it was set off.

The undercover operation involved an application from a fake construction company, supposedly based in West Virginia, that the investigators had incorporated even though it had no offices, Internet site or employees. Its only asset was a postal box.

Nuclear Regulatory Commission officials did not visit the company or try to interview its executives in person. Instead, within 28 days, they mailed the license to the West Virginia postal box, the report says.

That license, on a standard-size piece of paper, also had so few security measures incorporated into it that the investigators, using commercially available equipment, were able to modify it easily, removing a limit on the amount of radioactive material they could buy, the report says.

With that forged document, the auditors approached two industrial equipment companies to arrange to buy dozens of portable moisture density gauges, which cost about $5,000 each and are used to read the density of soil and pavement when building highways. The machines include americium-241 and cesium-137, radioactive substances commonly used in industrial equipment. Auditors, convinced they had enough evidence to prove their point, called off the ruse before the devices were delivered.

But if they had gone ahead with the plot — which would have required extracting the radioactive materials from the machines and combining them, a job that could harm anyone in close contact — they could have built a bomb that would have contaminated an area about the length of a city block, according to the regulatory commission.
Now, in terms of damage, a bomb like this would have contaminated a city block--not much actual damage--but imagine the psychological effect. Hell, the media shits itself when a white woman goes missing--imagine what they'd do with the words "dirty bomb" going 24-7. Rick Sanchez of CNN would probably blow himself up or something to get airtime.

Interesting thing at the end of the article. 34 states have local regulatory agencies that deal with this kind of stuff. When investigators tried to get away with this in Maryland, the state regulators went to the extreme step of actually asking to inspect the company's offices and storage yard. That was enough to get the investigators to rescind their application.

More proof that we need the GOP to re-take Congress next time around. And of course, Newt in the Whitehouse. ;)

They could solve any dirty bomb problem with a dish cloth and a bottle of Fairy liquid.

They could solve any dirty bomb problem with a dish cloth and a bottle of Fairy liquid.

Duct tape. *nod*

Duct tape. *nod*

Just so long as no one duct-tapes themselves off from their air supply. :p I'm still waiting for the warning on the label.

More proof that we need the GOP to re-take Congress next time around. And of course, Newt in the Whitehouse. ;)
How so? the policies put in place by a GOP Congress and a GOP whitehouse failed pretty clearly.

How exactly is this proof that we need more of the same?

How so? the policies put in place by a GOP Congress and a GOP whitehouse failed pretty clearly.

How exactly is this proof that we need more of the same?
I'd like to venture a guess to the effect that Pete was being sarcastic. ;)

How so? the policies put in place by a GOP Congress and a GOP whitehouse failed pretty clearly.

How exactly is this proof that we need more of the same?
Isn't it obvious?
In their tortured 'logic' way of thinking, the fact is that this was found out during a time where there is a Dem-controlled Senate & Congress. It thusly follows that it's the Dems to blame for this fuck up.

Look, if you still can't follow that logic, drink 1/2 a bottle of vodka, a thimble or two or detergent and then repeatedly tap your forehead against a big iron thing until the above makes 'sense'.

How so? the policies put in place by a GOP Congress and a GOP whitehouse failed pretty clearly.

How exactly is this proof that we need more of the same?

There's no proof that the Democrats could solve this either.

If you see the knowledge and intelligence of the typical government bureaucrat, you would realize this will happen no matter who is in government.

I see these people every day - they are mouth-breathing idiots.

We in the consulting business here commonly refer to them as mouth-breathers. Most of them do nothing except show up for work and wait for retirement.

And of course, Newt in the Whitehouse. ;)
Oh, so we like urodeles in the White House now? :p Why not frogs?

Oh, so we like urodeles in the White House now? :p Why not frogs?
My vote goes with the Lemurs. They're way cooler than your average amphibian.

Well if they get the radioactive material they need only travel to London.

There's a physicist in Imperial College who has six nuclear detonators stored in a cuboard that he doesn't even bother to lock.

Admitedly you'd still have to gain access to the building and his office. But how hard would it be to mug a student and then pick the lock on his office door?

Well if they get the radioactive material they need only travel to London.

There's a physicist in Imperial College who has six nuclear detonators stored in a cuboard that he doesn't even bother to lock.

Admitedly you'd still have to gain access to the building and his office. But how hard would it be to mug a student and then pick the lock on his office door?

People don't pick locks in countries where crowbars are sold.

People don't pick locks in countries where crowbars are sold.You obviously have no class. A crowbar is just so... crude... so heavy handed... so american. :p

My vote goes with the Lemurs. They're way cooler than your average amphibian.
Yeah! Go Prosimians!

Well if they get the radioactive material they need only travel to London.
Or just buy a whole shitload of smoke detectors and/or hospital equipment. There was that kid a few years back who set off a bit of a panic who did just that.
and before you say anything about the radioactive material in smoke detectors being next to useless in contaminating anything (so you are correct of course), it's the scare factor that such a bomb would cause that is the biggest problem. Imagine if it went off in Wall St? The panic could cripple the Dow - and thus the US economy.

And then there's this kid:
http://research.lifeboat.com/teen.goes.nuclear.htm

Who needs and actual functioning bomb? Just throw together some pipes and wires and call in a threat to the local police. Cheap and effective.

[QUOTE= Interesting thing at the end of the article. 34 states have local regulatory agencies that deal with this kind of stuff. When investigators tried to get away with this in Maryland, the state regulators went to the extreme step of actually asking to inspect the company's offices and storage yard. That was enough to get the investigators to rescind their application.[/QUOTE]



Ahh, God bless Federalism. The States are far more equipped at handling things that happen in their own backyard. For example, the way Florida tells the feds to get the heck out of their way when a hurricane comes through. The federal gov't was intended to have very little power outside of making war and ensuring that interstate commerce was smooth. Then again, when a state and local gov't is incompetent to the extreme, you get debacles like New Orleans. Oh well, rational people will make the rational choice to relocate to a state that doesn't have its head up its arse. Either way, it should be a given that the feds are going to be too wrapped up in bureaucratic garbage to handle anything right.

You obviously have no class. A crowbar is just so... crude... so heavy handed... so american. :p

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

I LOVE the Government Accountability Office!!! them > :fluffle: < me

They should have their own theme music and nifty capes to wear.

If the next president wants to win my confidence, he must restore enforcement powers to them. Yep, they used to be able to initiate hearings and even prosecutions based on these investigations of theirs, but Bush Sr. took that power away from them. Hm.


(EDIT: By the way, I'm really amused at how certain NSG persons who spend countless hours in other threads screaming about how we have to support Dear Leader Bush because otherwise the evildoers will be exploding their dirty dirty bombs under our beds, now in the face of this, just shrug and say, "so what? bureaucracy, the bombs aren't that dirty anyway, feh.")

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

*shakes head*

Losing them too young.

If you go to any major refinery in the US, there are firms nearby that cater to refurbishing drilling pipe.

All of this pipe is inspected using radiographs - done with cobalt.

The cobalt is not guarded. All you need is a crowbar and some spare time at night, and a willingness to be exposed to potentially lethal (in time) amounts of radiation.

There are kilograms of the stuff at any one site.

You don't even have to go through the pretense that was done in this case.

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

I just wonder how were your first 55 posts, if this is your 56th...

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:*giggles* Is that all you have to say?

Anyway, ass is... welll... anyone might think you were talking about a donkey.

Besides, if the US did decide to invade, you'd probably end up like a glass crater, as would we. And then the whole world would be happy because it would be the end of anglo-centric imperialism or something.

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

So, we were talking about a lack of class...

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

You win points for remembering the sniper smiley. ;)

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

Ah it's been a while since we've had a good noob. Let's see, all the gun smilies, the gundge smilie, upyours. Oh, and a nice sense of superiority.

You win points for remembering the sniper smiley. ;)

Too bad there's no tap dancing smiley or pancake flipping smiley. He could have used those, too.

Too bad there's no tap dancing smiley or pancake flipping smiley. He could have used those, too.

LOL

My vote goes with the Lemurs. They're way cooler than your average amphibian.

Lemurs, my national animal, FTW! :D

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:

Sir, you phail.

Jolt allows up to ten smilies in a post and you only used five. What kind of n00b are you?

My vote goes with the Lemurs. They're way cooler than your average amphibian.

You should take a page out of the Roman textbook and elect a Horse

How about we invade you, that'll show you "crude"...heavyhanded my ass. And yes, it's spelt ass, not arse, wtf is arse.

>uk< :mp5::sniper::gundge:<us> That's what's going to happen, and then the UK will be like :headbang: and we will be like :upyours:
Anyone know how he made it to post #56? Seriously...

My vote goes with the Lemurs. They're way cooler than your average amphibian.

Mine has to go to llamas. Here's why: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4746030835711939015&q=the+llama+song&total=1623&start=0&num=30&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Anyone know how he made it to post #56? Seriously...

I do that doubletake with people sometimes. How long has he been here again?

not to disrupt this republicans-suck-fest but do you really want to live in a country where everything that can possibly be made into an annoying bomb is kept completely safe?

i dont.

not to disrupt this republicans-suck-fest but do you really want to live in a country where everything that can possibly be made into an annoying bomb is kept completely safe?

i dont.

There are plenty of commonly available materials that don't need to be purchased in large quantities that can be introduced into office buildings that have high rates of air recirculation that would, in a matter of minutes, kill everyone in the building except those lucky enough to be on the ground floor near the exits.

These materials don't show up on bomb sniffers or metal detectors. They can be concealed easily and brought in a little at a time and stored without problems.

And they aren't radioactive.

Paying the government to implement more restrictions can't stop this sort of thing.

Killing the people who show any indication of wanting to do this sort of thing will stop it.

There are plenty of commonly available materials that don't need to be purchased in large quantities that can be introduced into office buildings that have high rates of air recirculation that would, in a matter of minutes, kill everyone in the building except those lucky enough to be on the ground floor near the exits.

These materials don't show up on bomb sniffers or metal detectors. They can be concealed easily and brought in a little at a time and stored without problems.

And they aren't radioactive.

Paying the government to implement more restrictions can't stop this sort of thing.

Killing the people who show any indication of wanting to do this sort of thing will stop it.

thats my thought. (well not the killing part but certainly prosecuting the hell out of such people) there is no end to bad things that can be cooked up to kill a few people.

what are we going to do? confiscate all the orange fiestaware dishes so they cant be ground up to make a dirty bomb?

Ahh, God bless Federalism. The States are far more equipped at handling things that happen in their own backyard. For example, the way Florida tells the feds to get the heck out of their way when a hurricane comes through. The federal gov't was intended to have very little power outside of making war and ensuring that interstate commerce was smooth. Then again, when a state and local gov't is incompetent to the extreme, you get debacles like New Orleans. Oh well, rational people will make the rational choice to relocate to a state that doesn't have its head up its arse. Either way, it should be a given that the feds are going to be too wrapped up in bureaucratic garbage to handle anything right.

Basically my thoughts as well. Some here on NSG would have you think that the Federal government is actually capable and that the states couldn't find their asses with a map and a flashlight. I'm guessing that those people live in states with governments that approach Uncle Sam's incompetence level.

Basically my thoughts as well. Some here on NSG would have you think that the Federal government is actually capable and that the states couldn't find their asses with a map and a flashlight. I'm guessing that those people live in states with governments that approach Uncle Sam's incompetence level.

Most Federal employees are mouthbreathers.

I would take my chances with county government before State, and State before Federal.

Most Federal employees are mouthbreathers.

I would take my chances with county government before State, and State before Federal.

You know why I don't trust my local county, state, and even school district?

They are sneaky bastards who get away with everything because the news centers on the federal government.

I can't count how many times the school district raised the budget in the middle of February without making any mention of a vote.

NOTE: I live in New Jersey, full of scumbags.

You know why I don't trust my local county, state, and even school district?

They are sneaky bastards who get away with everything because the news centers on the federal government.

I can't count how many times the school district raised the budget in the middle of February without making any mention of a vote.

NOTE: I live in New Jersey, full of scumbags.

I agree. Note my phrase, "take my chances".

The worst part of Federal, State, and County government is "the bureaucracy".

No matter how laws are written, they are usually never written in any great detail.

So, the bureaucracy gets to make up the rules about what they mean - in a far more powerful manner than any judiciary on the planet.

The entire Clean Air Act, and how it's implemented, is largely NOT in the original legislation. It's made up as they go along. A fact which the polluters successfully sued against - and won. For now, it's in an honorary limbo - we're all going to abide by it until Congress can write a new Clean Air Act - in its entirety - in graphic detail. Otherwise, it's unconstitutional.

I think that all laws should be written in detail. And no bureaucracy should have the power to make up shit as they go along.

Most Federal employees are mouthbreathers.

I would take my chances with county government before State, and State before Federal.

Most state employees are mouthbreathers too, but it's much more effective for me to bitch at Lansing than it is to bitch at Washington.

Also, the media here does talk quite a bit about the state government, which does help.

Ah it's been a while since we've had a good noob. Let's see, all the gun smilies, the gundge smilie, upyours. Oh, and a nice sense of superiority.

I love that gundge smiley… it looks like he's dropping acid. Heh.

NOTE: I live in New Jersey, full of scumbags.

I totally agree, New Jersey *(long time resident) is filled with horible sneaky politicians.

Makes me wonder why no successful terror attacks have gone off within the US lately, considering how easy it would be to pull it off after reading "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or any number of the other tutorials out there that teach you how to blow stuff up and suffocate entire roomfulls of people using common household products.

Makes me wonder why no successful terror attacks have gone off within the US lately, considering how easy it would be to pull it off after reading "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or any number of the other tutorials out there that teach you how to blow stuff up and suffocate entire roomfulls of people using common household products.

As I understand it, the purchase of the real Anarchists Cookbook is monitored(soemthing to do with the PATRIOT Act, I think), and the one/s available on the net are so wrong that you'll kill yourself following its instructions before you could ever kill anyone else.

As I understand it, the purchase of the real Anarchists Cookbook is monitored(soemthing to do with the PATRIOT Act, I think), and the one/s available on the net are so wrong that you'll kill yourself following its instructions before you could ever kill anyone else.

I'm sure there are already copies of it floating around that they can't keep tabs on.

Also, don't a few universities hold courses on anarchy? I was pretty sure they did.

As I understand it, the purchase of the real Anarchists Cookbook is monitored(soemthing to do with the PATRIOT Act, I think), and the one/s available on the net are so wrong that you'll kill yourself following its instructions before you could ever kill anyone else.

monitoring of "The Anarchists Cookbook" was going on before 9/11 and the PATRIOT Act. (as a bookseller, I was told to keep the name cards for those who ordered the book... and ording it was the ONLY way to get the book.)

monitoring of "The Anarchists Cookbook" was going on before 9/11 and the PATRIOT Act. (as a bookseller, I was told to keep the name cards for those who ordered the book... and ording it was the ONLY way to get the book.)

Did people ever give you made up names or did you have to ask for ID?

Did people ever give you made up names or did you have to ask for ID?

we asked for some form of ID. Especially since that book counted as one we could NOT sell to minors under any circumstances. then again for ID when they picked up their book. (to avoid giving someone's order to somebody else.)

and this was in the mid 80's. ;)

Makes me wonder why no successful terror attacks have gone off within the US lately, considering how easy it would be to pull it off after reading "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or any number of the other tutorials out there that teach you how to blow stuff up and suffocate entire roomfulls of people using common household products.

its a different dynamic than what we think it is. (no im not sure exactly how it works)


its not that al qaeda is at war with us and will strike us whenever they get a chance. its also a matter of PR within the group of terrorist bad boys. you have to make a certain kind of statement. you have to do it in a certain kind of flashy way. it has to be at a target and time that means something to THEM rather than one that will mean the most to US. they have to show themselves to be the bad boys of islam as much as they need to frighten us.

and i guess its tougher to find educated people willing to die for radical islam than one might think. (recent british md assholes excepted).

AND it seems that those who are willing to die for radical islam are too incompetent to get the job done. they fall victim to the "so stupid they dont know how stupid their plan is" syndrome. so they think that they can actually walk onto a military base and kill large numbers of people without getting killed themselves. they dont even realize that the terrorist connections they have made are FBI agents.

so i guess its hard to get competent people willing to die for radical islam in the right place at the right time. *shrug* go figure.

oh yeah i didnt mean to end there...

as to our own homegrown non-moslem terrorists...

they only act "at need" in specific circumstances. that whole OKC bombing that killed babies put a damper on the entire US radical <whatever> movement

OK, it is clear that we have a lot of holes in our national security. I have a solution:

Make sure that every person working in a significant position for the DoHS is either paranoid, or has a really nasty imagination. They'll think of EVERYTHING.

Which means that we'll be hiring only Jews, Russians, dictators, and nerds. Jews, Russians, and dictators are paranoid, nerds have nasty imaginations.

However, it seems that we're doing okay on the "find the terrorists before they strike" part (no successful terror attacks in US since 9/11, and I bet that there are plenty they've stopped that they aren't telling us about).

Makes me wonder why no successful terror attacks have gone off within the US lately, considering how easy it would be to pull it off after reading "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or any number of the other tutorials out there that teach you how to blow stuff up and suffocate entire roomfulls of people using common household products.

Oh, it happens. Only it's committed by White Male Christians(Harsh, I know), and other citizen based terrorist cells, thus it is swept under the radar.

Honestly, foreign terrorists are not even the most dangerous in our country. It's domestic terrorism that is far more likely, and sadly garners far less attention

However, it seems that we're doing okay on the "find the terrorists before they strike" part (no successful terror attacks in US since 9/11, and I bet that there are plenty they've stopped that they aren't telling us about).

Oh yes, because terrorists couldn't possibly be planning anything, couldn't possibly easily get into our country, and couldn't possibly easily get around the system.

Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't, it can't, or we are any less safer.

so i guess its hard to get competent people willing to die for radical islam in the right place at the right time. *shrug* go figure.


Dupes work just as nicely. Less easily traced too.

We are so much safer with Republicans in charge (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/12/us/12nuke.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin).


Now, in terms of damage, a bomb like this would have contaminated a city block--not much actual damage--but imagine the psychological effect. Hell, the media shits itself when a white woman goes missing--imagine what they'd do with the words "dirty bomb" going 24-7. Rick Sanchez of CNN would probably blow himself up or something to get airtime.

Interesting thing at the end of the article. 34 states have local regulatory agencies that deal with this kind of stuff. When investigators tried to get away with this in Maryland, the state regulators went to the extreme step of actually asking to inspect the company's offices and storage yard. That was enough to get the investigators to rescind their application.

KNEEL before the Republican Party!

(*15-second pause*)

Don't look at me like that! LIGHTEN UP! I'm just kidding!

How so? the policies put in place by a GOP Congress and a GOP whitehouse failed pretty clearly.

How exactly is this proof that we need more of the same?

You seem to be implying that Democrats would automatically do everything just exactly right with no negative repercussions or ramifications of any kind whatsoever. I disagree. Read on:
There's no proof that the Democrats could solve this either.

If you see the knowledge and intelligence of the typical government bureaucrat, you would realize this will happen no matter who is in government.

I see these people every day - they are mouth-breathing idiots.

We in the consulting business here commonly refer to them as mouth-breathers. Most of them do nothing except show up for work and wait for retirement.

Exactly; THAT is the point I am trying to make to UpwardThrust.

There's no proof that the Democrats could solve this either.

If you see the knowledge and intelligence of the typical government bureaucrat, you would realize this will happen no matter who is in government.

I see these people every day - they are mouth-breathing idiots.

We in the consulting business here commonly refer to them as mouth-breathers. Most of them do nothing except show up for work and wait for retirement.
I did not say they would have ... I just said that this was not proof of the need for a GOP controlled congress and whitehouse

snip



You seem to be implying that Democrats would automatically do everything just exactly right with no negative repercussions or ramifications of any kind whatsoever. I disagree. Read on:


Exactly; THAT is the point I am trying to make to UpwardThrust.

You are as wrong as him in assuming my implication ... I said NOTHING of the sort ... read my reply to his incorrect assumptions

You obviously have no class. A crowbar is just so... crude... so heavy handed... so american. :p

No. The american thing to do is take a quater pound of c-4 to open a screen door. using a crow bar is more canadian. subtle and lady-like.

Also, don't a few universities hold courses on anarchy? I was pretty sure they did.

I'm sure they do. However, anarchism does not have to include blowing shit up and killing people, so...

I'm sure they do. However, anarchism does not have to include blowing shit up and killing people, so...

*shrug* Who's gonna stop you?

*shrug* Who's gonna stop you?

No, I mean learning about anarchism doesn't have to include learning how to make bombs.

No, I mean learning about anarchism doesn't have to include learning how to make bombs.

True. (Not on the surface at least...<_< >_>)

But surely that, what, week or so? of anarchism is a good time to live out all those dreams of yours that may or may not be legal normally.