NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently scientist think they may be able to harvest viable DNA from this frozen baby Mammoth to be able to clone them back into existence. I personally would book a trip to Siberia just to see these things out in the wild. Hopefully it works. Question really is should we start bringing back extinct animals if we are able to?


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/07/11/siberia.babymammoth.reut/index.html#cnnSTCText

They died out for a reason. I have no objection to reviving species that were wiped out by man, but bringing back the mammoth is a step towards Jurassic Park, and I, for one, dont want to be eaten by raptors.

No!! It would be cool, but what if it had a disease that humans haven't been exposed to in years, and all sorts of problems that could come with that.

Wait, wont then need the right sort of egg too?

"Wooly" is such a cute word!

..

If they were able to bring them back, they'd be pimped by zoos. Used only to make money.

Maybe...

I would love to see a living breathing wooly mammoth but should we really bring back an animal that went extinct thousands of years ago. The global ecosystem has changed a bit since then and I'm not sure how it would survive. It could be unfair to bring it back as it could be harmful to the animal and change an ecosystem that has evolved without the mammoth.

They died out for a reason. I have no objection to reviving species that were wiped out by man, but bringing back the mammoth is a step towards Jurassic Park, and I, for one, dont want to be eaten by raptors.Well, there's a good chance people hurried along the mammoth's demise (and the same goes for a lot of giant mammals from around that time).
And also, being eaten by a raptor is a much more spectacular way to go then dying in a car accident. So it's not all bad.

this question is answered by another:

do they make good fur coats?

It could be unfair to bring it back as it could be harmful to the animal

Yeaahhh but who gives a shit?


and change an ecosystem that has evolved without the mammoth.

I doubt one mammoth will change anything.

Wait, wont then need the right sort of egg too?For a mammoth?
It's a mammal and no relation to the platypus or the echidna.

Yeaahhh but who gives a shit?



I doubt one mammoth will change anything.

Yeah we'll start with one but who says it would stop there. If th eone becoems a success there's nothing stopping more being reproduced.

For a mammoth?
It's a mammal and no relation to the platypus or the echidna.

No i mean as in the right sort of embryo [Fail at biology speak] you need a human embryo to clone a human right? And a sheep embryo to clone a sheep etc... so wont you need a mammoth embryo to clone a mammoth?

[/Fail at biology speak]

It could be unfair to bring it back as it could be harmful to the animalErrr, the alternative for the animal would be to not exist. So how harmful can it be in comparison?

Wait, wont then need the right sort of egg too?

Sort of…
Cloning exitinct species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloning#Cloning_extinct_and_endangered_species)
Wolly Mammoths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_Mammoth#Genetics)
Basically, we could find a similar animal's egg (an Asian elephant, for instance), and clone a mammoth… but then it will die of horrible sicknesses.

… but then it will die of horrible sicknesses.

owned

No i mean as in the right sort of embryo [Fail at biology speak] you need a human embryo to clone a human right? And a sheep embryo to clone a sheep etc... so wont you need a mammoth embryo to clone a mammoth?

[/Fail at biology speak]Ah, sorry, I fail at understanding.
As New Malachite Square said, you can take an egg(cell) from the closest living relative, the elephant. (And hope it's close enough).

Or maybe we'll find a frozen female mammoth one day with pristinely frozen ovaries.

No!! It would be cool, but what if it had a disease that humans haven't been exposed to in years, and all sorts of problems that could come with that.

How could it have a disease? Unless of course the disease was actually present in the DNA, but then it would have quite a bit of trouble going from a mammoth to humans.

How could it have a disease? Unless of course the disease was actually present in the DNA, but then it would have quite a bit of trouble going from a mammoth to humans.There might be a retrovirus that inserted the DNA for its construction into the DNA. Such a virus might be infectious to a greater range of mammals. (Of course chances are slim that you could use that DNA to grow a mammoth then; so you'd give up that batch before it's a problem. And such an infectious disease would be unlikely to be very dangerous)

owned

Eat that, sucka! *punches mammoth in kidney*

They died out for a reason.

Pfft. No reasoning was involved. There's no purpose here, no mystical mother-earth "fate" that they "should" have died out, they just died out. I don't see anything wrong with this in principle.

But practically speaking, we can barely maintain today's ecosystems and endangered species, what makes anyone think we can maintain dead ones? It's like bringing back the past because the present sucks too much. Not a good idea.

I have no objection to reviving species that were wiped out by man, but bringing back the mammoth is a step towards Jurassic Park, and I, for one, dont want to be eaten by raptors.

Well. I, for one, welcome our new velociraptor overlords!

There have been over 25 discoveries of frozen mamoths that have been preserved in permafrost, I think they should make a giant park for them, it would be a great idea to cloen them.

There could eb a wolly mamoth theme park or something, hours of fun!

By the by, the principles of cloning are quite simple.

Replace the nucleus of an elephants egg-cell with a mamoths, and then try and get some mamoth sperm and BOOM, instant mamoth.

Replace the nucleus of an elephants egg-cell with a mamoths, and then try and get some mamoth sperm and BOOM, instant mamoth.Not quite. Cloning doesn't involve sperm. It would require replacing the nucleus of the elephants egg-cell with the nucleus of a regular mammoth cell. (Or resetting the the mammoth cell to think it's unspecialized)
If you have a mammoth egg-cell and a mammoth sperm cell, a normal fertilization would work much better. (without the typical cloning problems)

Replace the nucleus of an elephants egg-cell with a mamoths, and then try and get some mamoth sperm and BOOM, instant mamoth.

Not quite x 2. Please wait 630 to 660 days for your mammoth. :D

Wait, wouldn't it thrive in the cold only? Doesn't that mean global warming would just kill it off again?:p


Seriously though, I agree with dontgothere. They were given a chance, and they died off. They get no second chance.

Raptor Jesus approves of this. He likes the taste of Woolly Mammoth.

Seriously though, I agree with dontgothere. They were given a chance, and they died off. They get no second chance.

The evidence suggests they 'died off' for the same reason as so many other critters in recent history. We ate them.

It's not like the turned out to be an evolutionary dead end... they just ended up next to the potatoes and peas.

The evidence suggests they 'died off' for the same reason as so many other critters in recent history. We ate them.

It's not like the turned out to be an evolutionary dead end... they just ended up next to the potatoes and peas.

It would be nice to know what they tasted like..

They died out for a reason. I have no objection to reviving species that were wiped out by man, but bringing back the mammoth is a step towards Jurassic Park, and I, for one, dont want to be eaten by raptors.

They won't eat you they'll only eat the idiots stupid enough to visit the park...the "herd" has to be thinned somehow you know...;)

They died out for a reason. I have no objection to reviving species that were wiped out by man

What's the difference between a species wiped out my man or nature? We're a part of nature.

What's the difference between a species wiped out my man or nature? We're a part of nature.

Actually we're aliens...we just haven't figured that out yet..I however am Enlightened ;)

Reminds me of that copypasta where the guy is in love with dinosaurs.

The evidence suggests they 'died off' for the same reason as so many other critters in recent history. We ate them.

It's not like the turned out to be an evolutionary dead end... they just ended up next to the potatoes and peas.


Are we not animals? Do our actions not count as acts of nature?

The evidence suggests they 'died off' for the same reason as so many other critters in recent history. We ate them.

It's not like the turned out to be an evolutionary dead end... they just ended up next to the potatoes and peas.

True, but probably only when they could be scavenged safely. It's not like prehistoric hunters routinely attacked mammoths when they could easily go after smaller, easier to kill game.

I'd like to see if a mammoth could be brought back to life, but only so long as people don't try to turn it into a revival of the species. A woolly mammoth just doesn't have a natural habitat anywhere anymore.

i told you we're aliens god damn it

Actually we're aliens...we just haven't figured that out yet..I however am Enlightened ;)

:)

It would probably just be killed by some poacher.

What is it we assume mammoths ate?

Roll with me (and understand I'm not being entirely serious)-
I assume that they're herbivorous. If they're in frozeny areas where there aren't other creatures already living off whatever it is, and we get these things near polar bears, BAM, two rare/extinct birds with one stone. We re-introduce a species to feed one dying out.

Many of you will find flaws in this. That's because you're spoilsports.

This is why you don't get invited to birthday parties. No one at Chuck E. Cheese wants to hear about how Doug E. Dough is better.

So there.

What is it we assume mammoths ate?


Cavemen, I think.

Cavemen, I think.

That's what the dinosaurs ate.... :rolleyes:






;)

Wait, wouldn't it thrive in the cold only? Doesn't that mean global warming would just kill it off again?:p
.

Just shave the Wooly and bam you just got a mammoth. Will be able to survive in the Arctic tropics.

Just shave the Wooly and bam you just got a mammoth. Will be able to survive in the Arctic tropics.

what is it with people today, and the obsession with being shaved? I prefer to keep a little hair on my mammoth. ;)

I was so excited when I read this story earlier today. :p I'd pay $4.99/lb. for some wooly mammoth meat. It's worth any risk involved. ;)

It would probably just be killed by some poacher.

And? Poachers gotta eat, too. :p After all, some people think, if I remember right, that humans' need to get their act together and develop teamwork to hunt the mammoth was partially responsible for the civilization we enjoy today. :p

Uno, dos, one, two, tres, quatro
Matty told Hatty about a thing she saw.
Had two big horns and a wooly jaw.
Wooly bully, wooly bully.
Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully.
Hatty told Matty, "Let's don't take no chance.
Let's not be L-seven, come and learn to dance."
Wooly bully, wooly bully
Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully.
Matty told Hatty, "That's the thing to do.
Get you someone really to pull the wool with you."
Wooly bully, wooly bully.
Wooly bully, wooly bully, wooly bully.


Sorry. I just couldn't take this seriously. G'night.

I think you'll find the solution is to breed elephants with wigs, not this "cloning and embryos blah blah blah" nonsense.

This would work better and produce some extremely odd and possibly hilarious footage for any number of animal documentaries.

*nods*

I think we should create bonsai woolly mammoths - funny little things we could have running around as pets - about the size of an upright mobile phone at the most.

Yet these damn scientists never do what I want.

Are we not animals? Do our actions not count as acts of nature?

Are we animals? Yes.

Do our actions count as nature? I'm not so sure. Nature strikes me as capricious. We, on the other hand, deliberately destroy.

True, but probably only when they could be scavenged safely. It's not like prehistoric hunters routinely attacked mammoths when they could easily go after smaller, easier to kill game.

I'd like to see if a mammoth could be brought back to life, but only so long as people don't try to turn it into a revival of the species. A woolly mammoth just doesn't have a natural habitat anywhere anymore.

I wonder if there was much smaller, easier game. Considering the extreme cold environment to which the mammoth is suited, I wonder how much competition they had (or allowed to survive?). They might have been the only thing available. They certainly might have been the only thing with a worthwhile yeild to justify the effort.

I think we should create bonsai woolly mammoths - funny little things we could have running around as pets - about the size of an upright mobile phone at the most.

Yet these damn scientists never do what I want.Pygmy Mammoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammuthus_exilis).

Dwarf species have also been found on Wrangel island (Siberia) & Sardinia.

So - if you're lucky... Admittedly, they'd still be one- to two metres in height, but hey. it's a start.

Even if we could bring one back, it would surely be confined to the zoo? I mean, a) there's no habitat b) there's no other mammoths to teach it how to live/what not to eat and c) what do the Chinese think mammoths tusk cures?
It might teach us something about physiology, but not much else.

The evidence suggests they 'died off' for the same reason as so many other critters in recent history. We ate them.

It's not like the turned out to be an evolutionary dead end... they just ended up next to the potatoes and peas.

It would be nice to know what they tasted like..

I was so excited when I read this story earlier today. :p I'd pay $4.99/lb. for some wooly mammoth meat. It's worth any risk involved. ;)

I have read that modern arctic explorers actually did eat some of the mammoths found. ;)

And? Poachers gotta eat, too. :p After all, some people think, if I remember right, that humans' need to get their act together and develop teamwork to hunt the mammoth was partially responsible for the civilization we enjoy today. :p

Wolly mammoths damned by faint praise.

Even if we could bring one back, it would surely be confined to the zoo? I mean, a) there's no habitat b) there's no other mammoths to teach it how to live/what not to eat and c) what do the Chinese think mammoths tusk cures?
It might teach us something about physiology, but not much else.Actually, this depends on the mammoth species. The imperial mammoth would be perfectly happy in the north american prairies as they are today (Although the prairies themselves have shrunk, so the supportable population would be small), and the wooly mammoth should be able to survive in siberia - for now, at least, although the thawing might change this in the forseeable future.

Human support for raising them should be doable - difficult, but doable -, so that's no overly huge issue, either.

The one issue you cannot get rid of is habitat destruction, i.e. the same problem most mammals - animals, really - are facing as humans expand (Looking at the original and present extend of aforementioned prairies, to name just one example), but that's true for every species. Remember - there is a reason for humans to be suspected of being a contributing factor in the mammoth' extinction, because their habitats, while shrinking with the end of the last glacial-maxima, didn't vanish - human influence (Remember, the most likely methods to hunt mammoths would've wiped out whole herds to get one or two individuals - fire to force them down a slope does that), together with more limited habitats and naturally small population would've done the trick habitat loss alone cannot explain.

No i mean as in the right sort of embryo [Fail at biology speak] you need a human embryo to clone a human right? And a sheep embryo to clone a sheep etc... so wont you need a mammoth embryo to clone a mammoth?

[/Fail at biology speak]


Nope but you do need an egg large enough, but I guess an elephants egg would do the trick.

Yeah I say bring back the mammoth!

Actually, what I'm more worried about is what happens 'after' the thing is cloned ... I mean, if we've only got one (hell, or even if you've only got 5 mammoths, and from the sound of it, we don't!) mammoth, that's a small gene pool ... so while I am all for bringing back the mammoths, I am totally against rertarded mammoths wandering about the artic because of inbreeding ...

Seems rather cruelly ironic to bring back an ice-age species during a time of global warming. Poor woolly little buggers will find it far too hot for their liking.

If they were able to bring them back, they'd be pimped by zoos. Used only to make money.

And this is why they will bring them back.

Wait, wont then need the right sort of egg too?


No.

They'd just clone it and use an Elephant's egg.

Wait, wouldn't it thrive in the cold only? Doesn't that mean global warming would just kill it off again?:p


Seriously though, I agree with dontgothere. They were given a chance, and they died off. They get no second chance.

Because humans killed them off...

I wonder if there was much smaller, easier game. Considering the extreme cold environment to which the mammoth is suited, I wonder how much competition they had (or allowed to survive?). They might have been the only thing available. They certainly might have been the only thing with a worthwhile yeild to justify the effort.

There were elk, caribou, deer, horses, giant slotes, and bison in the same place, also being hunted by humans at the same time. Considering humans hunted with spears, it was easier for a group of hunters to take several smaller animals in a trip than a single mammoth. This is still without considering any fishing, plant gathering, or bird hunting that humans may have engaged in at the time to supplement their subsistence base.

Remember, North America wasn't all ice and snow at the time and mammoths ranged as far south as Mexico, which fairly temperate at the time, so people weren't dependent on the largest, most dangerous herbivore in the area for food.

If humans killed me off and brought me back thousands of years later, I'd be pissed too...

Because humans killed them off...

What if they died off by being killed by another animal,say by being over hunted lions or something? Isn't that part of natural selection? They didn't have what it took to survive against a certain threat, therefore they died off, and became extinct.

No.

They'd just clone it and use an Elephant's egg.

The scientists would have to clear out the elephant DNA, replace with mammoth DNA, and implant an elephant and see what happens.

What if they died off by being killed by another animal,say by being over hunted lions or something? Isn't that part of natural selection? They didn't have what it took to survive against a certain threat, therefore they died off, and became extinct.

Natural selection is indescriminate. They were not "destined" to die off, they simply did.

But practically speaking, we can barely maintain today's ecosystems and endangered species, what makes anyone think we can maintain dead ones? It's like bringing back the past because the present sucks too much. Not a good idea.

the argument that can and has been made is that part of our current problem is that we were already living in impoverished ecosystems when the industrial revolution kicked off and we accelerated the human-caused environmental degradation. the pleistocene megafauna played really vital roles in their environments, and there hasn't yet been enough time for those systems to diversify and change into fully robust new systems yet. they are sort of limping along from the fairly recent loss and we keep hitting them with new issues. if they were brought back to their robust level, preservation would presumably be less difficult than it is now.

What if they died off by being killed by another animal,say by being over hunted lions or something? Isn't that part of natural selection? They didn't have what it took to survive against a certain threat, therefore they died off, and became extinct.

Well, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be tossed back into the environment. They'd be used to study the fauna that we used to hunt, and use it as a benchmark for future extinct animal resurrections, such as the possible DNA found in a T-Rex femur bone.

I think you'll find the solution is to breed elephants with wigs, not this "cloning and embryos blah blah blah" nonsense.

This would work better and produce some extremely odd and possibly hilarious footage for any number of animal documentaries.

*nods*

As I recall someone did try to "breed back" aurochs... It was a stupid endeavour in my opinion- Even if the "returned" creature looks and acts like the original, it is still totally different on a genetic level (So there would be very little use for it on a scientific biological level). Besides, I do not think they got the aurochs quite right anyway, so it was a failure all around.

If we are going to breed hairy elephants, though, we should at least make sure that they have some funky colouring. Boring brown is totally last epoch.

I hate to throw water on the fire, but the chances of this guy succeeding are miniscule.

Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) is one of the largest and most complex molecules in existence. In fact, it can only exist in one location: the interior of a living cell. A very short time after the cell dies, the DNA starts to break down.

Retrieving useful DNA from someone a few days dead is easy. Make it a year or so and you're really scratching. Much more than that and you're reduced to drilling out the marrow and hoping something got preserved. And you don't expect to get lucky.

And the freezing not only doesn't help, it reduces the chances still further. Ice crystals not only rupture cells, they shatter DNA like a hammer shatters glass.

So I don't think we're going to have Mammothlettes running around any time soon.

What if they died off by being killed by another animal,say by being over hunted lions or something? Isn't that part of natural selection? They didn't have what it took to survive against a certain threat, therefore they died off, and became extinct.

two things

first, lions aren't typically held to be moral agents, while people typically are. which means that humans have responsibility for their wrongs.

and second, what reason do we have for believing that happening to survive some selective force should be given positive moral standing?

yes, it would be cool and remind me that we're living in the future, now.

I hate to throw water on the fire, but the chances of this guy succeeding are miniscule.

Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) is one of the largest and most complex molecules in existence. In fact, it can only exist in one location: the interior of a living cell. A very short time after the cell dies, the DNA starts to break down.

Retrieving useful DNA from someone a few days dead is easy. Make it a year or so and you're really scratching. Much more than that and you're reduced to drilling out the marrow and hoping something got preserved. And you don't expect to get lucky.

And the freezing not only doesn't help, it reduces the chances still further. Ice crystals not only rupture cells, they shatter DNA like a hammer shatters glass.

So I don't think we're going to have Mammothlettes running around any time soon.

Not doubting what your saying however why would these scientist say this in the mainstream media then? The scientist would face some serious ridicule if they say they can do something they know won't work. Wouldn't be a smart move if you ask me.

Maybe...

I would love to see a living breathing wooly mammoth but should we really bring back an animal that went extinct thousands of years ago. The global ecosystem has changed a bit since then and I'm not sure how it would survive. It could be unfair to bring it back as it could be harmful to the animal and change an ecosystem that has evolved without the mammoth.

In the words of Jeff Goldbulm Life finds a way so the process of re creating the animal in our time would probibly alter it's genetic code enough to not be bothered by climate changes or illnesses.

Cavemen, I think.
That's what the dinosaurs ate.... :rolleyes:






;)

Actually the Dinosaurs didn't eat cavemen. Dinosaurs died out in the Cretaceous period 65 million years ago. The first humans didn't appear until the end of the Pliocene around 2.5 million years ago. Cavemen and dinosaurs NEVER existed together.

As far as bringing back the mammoth. I'm not against it, they just recently died out, less than 10,000 years ago, probably because of us. Let's bring them back, but only for zoos and wildlife preserves. They wouldn't do well in our warming climate, although maybe not, they did survive previous Pleistocene interglacials.

Actually the Dinosaurs didn't eat cavemen. Dinosaurs died out in the Cretaceous period 65 million years ago. The first humans didn't appear until the end of the Pliocene around 2.5 million years ago. Cavemen and dinosaurs NEVER existed together.
.

Yes we both know this. This is why there is a little wink at the bottom of the response. Was a half hearted attempt at humor that maybe you didn't get. :p

Brining back long-extinct species would be an accomplishment on par with putting men on the moon, among the greatest feats of humanity in all of history.

Yes we both know this. This is why there is a little wink at the bottom of the response. Was a half hearted attempt at humor that maybe you didn't get. :p


My bad, i didn't notice the emoticons lol. A lot of people do think that cavemen and dinosaurs lived together though, you think they would have been taught better in schools.

It would be nice to know what they tasted like..

They would taste like chicken.;)

Not doubting what your saying however why would these scientist say this in the mainstream media then? The scientist would face some serious ridicule if they say they can do something they know won't work. Wouldn't be a smart move if you ask me.

Because you can always get lucky. All they need is one intact cell to defrost without rupturing, one intact nucleus.

The chance of getting usable DNA is miniscule, so I don't expect them to succeed. But, unlike with fossilized material (DNA never survives the fossilization process), frozen Mammoth chunks just might yield what they're looking for, it isn't impossible. I wouldn't put my money on such odds, but if this guy is willing to, good on him.

Hey, think of the boon to the piano industry. Not forgetting the fashion industry, the cattle industry(well, that one is debateable), etc.

Besides, Snuffleupagus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Snuffleupagus) would no longer be lonely!:fluffle:

The Quagga Project is coming along nicely. Of course, it helps that the Quagga was "merely" a mutant Plains Zebra.:p

Hey, think of the boon to the piano industry. Not forgetting the fashion industry, the cattle industry(well, that one is debateable), etc.

Besides, Snuffleupagus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Snuffleupagus) would no longer be lonely!:fluffle:

The Quagga Project is coming along nicely. Of course, it helps that the Quagga was "merely" a mutant Plains Zebra.:p

Reverse-genetic engineering freaks me out a little bit, but I like it. :p

Maybe one day we'll have sabre-toothed cats, aurochses, and mammoths being shown at the zoo (and of course, offered at the deli). :)

Reverse-genetic engineering freaks me out a little bit, but I like it. :p

Maybe one day we'll have sabre-toothed cats, aurochses, and mammoths being shown at the zoo (and of course, offered at the deli). :)

No Sabre-Tooths, I'm afraid. Their line is extinct, no descendents to reverse-engineer from.

A pity, really. "Here, puss-puss-puss..."

No Sabre-Tooths, I'm afraid. Their line is extinct, no descendents to reverse-engineer from.

A pity, really. "Here, puss-puss-puss..."

Well that sucks. :( Unless maybe we had some DNA, but from what I've read here, that's a hell of a long-shot. Maybe a tiger, a little sharpened mammoth ivory and some Elmer's Glue could do instead. :p

No!! It would be cool, but what if it had a disease that humans haven't been exposed to in years, and all sorts of problems that could come with that.

They will clone the mamoth, not the uber killing bacteria from hell.

Not a whole lot of space for the kitties (As awesome as it'd be to have Dinofelis roam again). Unlike the mammoth, they were succeeded by more modern cats, rather than going extinct without serious replacement.

If anything, we should try to re-populate existing kitty populations - Siberian Tiger/ Leopard come to mind.

There's tons of tigers that are extinct, most of them due to lack of space. And of course, hunting.:sniper: