NationStates Jolt Archive

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/07/10/zimbabwe.prices.ap/index.html

HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) -- Zimbabwe's economy veered closer to the brink with no end in sight to chronic shortages of staple foods and gasoline, and predictions of a standstill in routine business within days.

Police and government inspectors continued cracking down on shopkeepers and sales managers accused of defying orders to slash prices by half in a desperate attempt to halt rampant inflation.

Shelves were bare of cornmeal, bread, meat and other staples, and witnesses said many shops and suppliers were cleaned out by convoys of ruling party supporters coming in after police and inspectors began enforcing the price cuts on June 26.

"The crunch can't be far off," said economist John Robertson.

Factories, stores and gas stations have been unable to replace goods sold at below the original cost. The sudden drop in prices has sparked panic buying, stampedes and near-riots by impoverished Zimbabweans.

I dunno about you, but I think it'll be quite enjoyable to see a country implode on itself.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/07/10/zimbabwe.prices.ap/index.html



I dunno about you, but I think it'll be quite enjoyable to see a country implode on itself.

Fuck the people 'eh? Nice.

Fuck the people 'eh? Nice.

It's interesting news. Keeps the papers away from Paris Hilton and the like for a few days.

It's interesting news. Keeps the papers away from Paris Hilton and the like for a few days.

Interesting yes...enjoyable to watch a country implode...no.

Sad times :(

I'd much prefer "Paris Hilton still losing at the Game Of Life" to "Thousands if not millions of Zimbabweans are about to starve, lolz".

Meh. It's like a caricature of Africa. That entire continent is a lost cause.

It's interesting news. Keeps the papers away from Paris Hilton and the like for a few days.
I'd much prefer "Paris Hilton still losing at the Game Of Life" to "Thousands if not millions of Zimbabweans are about to starve, lolz".

Theres not really much left to implode.

I dunno about you, but I think it'll be quite enjoyable to see a country implode on itself.only if you also find it enjoyable to sending aid to that country.

Meh. It's like a caricature of Africa. That entire continent is a lost cause.
I don't see why millions of people should die because of that, though.

I don't see why millions of people should die because of that, though.

Hey, if I was a world leader, I'd help out. Except that I wouldn't, because I know Mugabe's going to take my aid and do something STUPID with it.

Hey, if I was a world leader, I'd help out. Except that I wouldn't, because I know Mugabe's going to take my aid and do something STUPID with it.
Aid isn't just money, it could be food, engineers to work on dams and power stations and such, that kind of thing.

Don't give it to Mugabe ffs. Give it to the people.

Aid isn't just money, it could be food, engineers to work on dams and power stations and such, that kind of thing.

None of those things help the people if the dictator chooses to use them for his own means.

Don't give it to Mugabe ffs. Give it to the people.

You can't go around Mugabe. What, you think I can paradrop food into Harare?

I thought they had dropped the Zimbabwean Dollar altogether to replace it with South African Rand?

But yes, a month, two at most...

and people still bang on about how its better now the british, the dutch etc are not in charge in africa. at least when they were in charge in zimbabwe the country was feeding half of africa! now it can't even feed itself!! hopefully after the country implodes they might get a chance to build a better place, new start and all that.

None of those things help the people if the dictator chooses to use them for his own means.
What the fuck is Mugabe going to do about it?

"Hmm, it appears you are building a dam to help farming... err... I'll send my demoralised and hungry army to stop you from getting more food in the country... yes..."
You can't go around Mugabe. What, you think I can paradrop food into Harare?
Yes.

Or take it in via APC. Whatever the hell it takes. Chrissakes, make an effort when human lives are going to be unnecessarily lost otherwise.

I thought they had dropped the Zimbabwean Dollar altogether to replace it with South African Rand?

But yes, a month, two at most...
I bet the South Africans are pretty pissed off about that particular decision.

Meh. It's like a caricature of Africa. That entire continent is a lost cause.

Sure. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6288400.stm)

What the fuck is Mugabe going to do about it?

"Hmm, it appears you are building a dam to help farming... err... I'll send my demoralised and hungry army to stop you from getting more food in the country... yes..."

Yes.

It wouldn't be the first time he's taken something as basic as farming and completely fucked it up for the rest of the country AND continent.

Or take it in via APC. Whatever the hell it takes. Chrissakes, make an effort when human lives are going to be unnecessarily lost otherwise.

Yes, I'm going to declare war on Zimbabwe. Great. That won't hurt the population at all.

Sure. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6288400.stm)

There wasn't really much room to get worse. They had to go up.

There wasn't really much room to get worse. They had to go up.

If they can improve, then they're not a lost cause.

If they can improve, then they're not a lost cause.

It's like saying that with work, Christopher Reeves went from total paralysed to moving one finger. He's still fucked.

I agree with you entirely. This set of sanctions have been placed on Zimbabwe because Mugabe used force in an attempt to redress what was a wrong in the first place (Read: The unfair land distribution issue that saw native Zimbabweans lose their own land in the late 1800s and early 1900s).

These sanctions have not been placed on Zimbabwe because of poor human rights because if this were the case, several other sub-Saharan African countries would be in the same boat. Truth is these sanctions are hurting the ordinary Zimbabwean more than they hurt the big ballers like Robert Mugabe! Like others before him - Castro, Jong and Co, he will take this as a personal affront and continue to thumb his nose at those who seek to sanction his regime until he dies.

I don't see any crunch point in the horizon. He will continue to fight what he sees as imperialist intervention - which is what explains a 3000% inflation rate -- until his last dying breath!

Fuck the people 'eh? Nice.

It wouldn't be the first time he's taken something as basic as farming and completely fucked it up for the rest of the country AND continent.
Err aye, but in this case, it's not in his hands.
Yes, I'm going to declare war on Zimbabwe. Great. That won't hurt the population at all.
They don't have to be packing weapons ffs, it's more so that Mugabe can't nick the food. Buh.

A very important cause for the immense magnitude of the problems Africa is facing is bad governments.

A very important example of a bad government is the current Zimbabwean government.

Err aye, but in this case, it's not in his hands.

Trust me, he'll FIND a way.

They don't have to be packing weapons ffs, it's more so that Mugabe can't nick the food. Buh.

My convoy crosses the border, it's war. Regardless of whether or not it's armed.

Trust me, he'll FIND a way.
Nah. It'd be cool.
My convoy crosses the border, it's war. Regardless of whether or not it's armed.
Err not if it's an aid mission.

Say they're... err... immigrants from the DRoC, and they're looking for a better life in Zimbabwe, and the only way they could get away to Mugabe's paradise was in a stolen BTR-152.

Would play to his ego, people get food, hurrah, the world rejoices.

It's like saying that with work, Christopher Reeves went from total paralysed to moving one finger. He's still fucked.

Meh. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Gandhi said it. Or Dr. Phil.

The point is, if one can improve, then it is premature to declare one totally fucked. There is less corruption in Africa, fewer dictators, less debt and less war now than say 10 or 20 years ago. Africa is not anywhere near done, but they are getting better.

and people still bang on about how its better now the british, the dutch etc are not in charge in africa. at least when they were in charge in zimbabwe the country was feeding half of africa! now it can't even feed itself!! hopefully after the country implodes they might get a chance to build a better place, new start and all that.

We could also end up with another crap hole like southern Somalia.

The good news is that this may have a real chance of ending when Mugabe looses power, probably soon.

I reckon this will lead to a revolution. Mugabe will be ousted out of power and probably killed by the people. Zimbabwwe used to such a flourishing economy...

I reckon this will lead to a revolution. Mugabe will be ousted out of power and probably killed by the people. Zimbabwwe used to such a flourishing economy...
Ah, the joys of Rhodesia.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/07/10/zimbabwe.prices.ap/index.html



I dunno about you, but I think it'll be quite enjoyable to see a country implode on itself.

This is not going to end well.

meh

It's old hat, but again I can't resist ...

We went to Rhodesia to see the ruins of Zimbabwe
Now you go to Zimbabwe to see the ruins of Rhodesia.

There was hope for a really orderly transition for Northern Rhodesia, Southern Rhodesia, and Nyasaland, but once the marxists and the British Labour governments got going, the common people were going to get f****d, no matter what their skin colour.

Beyond the human tragedy, the countryside is being devastated as people try to scratch out the next meal.

There is simply no cultural basis for any government that works along western democratic lines. So Mugabe will last until another dictator comes along... The best the common people of Zimbabwe can can hope for is a benevolent dictator.

Send in an army, multinational, and take down Mugabe. There can't be much opposition to taking him down; even his army wouldn't pose much of a threat. Then bring in food. Shitloads of the stuff, start feeding people. Issue a new currency, and tie it to the Euro or the Dollar, and start setting up a new system of government from the ground up; begin with village and town councils, bring them into provincial governments, and eventually bring those together to create a national government, elected by the people, with defence being the (temporary) responsibility of the multinational force. Speak to Tsvangirai, work with him to try and arrange a temporary government until a nationally elected one can be put in place.

If Mugabe's still alive, put him up at the Hague.

It wouldn't be Iraq, it would be justice.

Send in an army, multinational, and take down Mugabe. There can't be much opposition to taking him down; even his army wouldn't pose much of a threat. Then bring in food. Shitloads of the stuff, start feeding people. Issue a new currency, and tie it to the Euro or the Dollar, and start setting up a new system of government from the ground up; begin with village and town councils, bring them into provincial governments, and eventually bring those together to create a national government, elected by the people, with defence being the (temporary) responsibility of the multinational force. Speak to Tsvangirai, work with him to try and arrange a temporary government until a nationally elected one can be put in place.

If Mugabe's still alive, put him up at the Hague.

It wouldn't be Iraq, it would be justice.

The operative question is "What's in it for us?"

Why does there need to be something in it for us? How about the satisfaction of knowing that you have at least tried to do something substantial to help several million people escape from a life of tyranny and poverty? Is that not quite enough for you?

Why does there need to be something in it for us? How about the satisfaction of knowing that you have at least tried to do something substantial to help several million people escape from a life of tyranny and poverty? Is that not quite enough for you?

Hey, the day that a country can do a peacekeeping mission without being called imperialist pigs is the day that satisfaction is enough a reward.

The operative question is "What's in it for us?"

There wasn't anything in it for us when Clinton invaded Serbia, but that did a lot of good, wasn't very expensive, didn't take long and now the Balkans are on the way up. We could do the same in Zimbabwe.

Why doesn't South Africa do something useful for once and invade?

Sure. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6288400.stm)
It could only have gotten better.

Ah, the joys of Rhodesia.

Actually, just the joys of Zimbabwe before the "Agricultural Policy". Zimbabwe's entire economy was based on agriculture, and the white farmers provided that in spades. In kicking them off their land (and thus "redressing" a wrong that was never comitted by these people in the first place), Mugabe destroyed the entire country.

Why doesn't South Africa do something useful for once and invade?
Probably can't. I doubt their military is really up to it: probably poorly funded, and I doubt their army is particularly healthy (as a result of poverty and AIDS) and has particularly good morale. I doubt the SA government wants a huge influx of migrants either. Any attempt to topple Mugabe would have to be an international force both to give it legitimacy and ensure that any participants can actually take care of it.

The operative question is "What's in it for us?"

Stabalising an area before it goes completely insane (although granted there isn't much time till that kicks in). Stability is a good thing for everyone