NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html

SAN DIEGO -- A San Diego elementary school has found itself at the center of a debate over prayer in school, NBC 7/39 reported.

Carver Elementary in Oak Park added Arabic to its curriculum last year when it absorbed 100 Muslim students.

The school said those students are allowed to pray each afternoon.

But a substitute teacher complained to officials, saying the school was indoctrinating students into Islam.

"We are required by federal law to allow students their freedom of religious expression," said Jack Brandais of the San Diego Unified School District.

"The Carver students are allowed to pray during non-instructional time just the same as there are Bible study clubs and Christian clubs," he said.

The district's lawyers agreed.

The students are allowed to pray each day at 1 p.m. during a 15-minute recess, officials said.

But what's this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club...

San Diego Unified was sued in 1993 when it denied a University City High School student's request to hold lunchtime Bible fellowship. The court found the district discriminated against religion, because it allowed secular clubs to meet during lunch.

Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).

Good thing we have this, in the recent Supreme Court decision on Morse v. Frederick:

Parents decide whether to send their children to public schools. Cf. Hamilton v. Regents of Univ. of Cal., 293 U. S. 245, 262 (1934) ("California has not drafted or called them to attend the university. They are seeking education offered by the State and at the same time insisting that they be excluded from the prescribed course ..."); id., at 266 (Cardozo, J., concurring). If parents do not like the rules imposed by those schools, they can seek redress in school boards or legislatures; they can send their children to private schools or home school them; or they can simply move.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html



But what's this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club...
Are you stupid or are you trying to say we are? If it isn't one of you crackpots, it is the other obsfucating the issue to try and make the bad guys of the 'brown people' who worship a different religion than you do?

Maybe they didn't have to be forced this time, 14 years later, BECAUSE THEY WERE IN A FUCKING COURT CASE FORCING THEM TO RECOGNIZED FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.
That's a nice cherry you have there... Where's the tree?



Take your racism elsewhere. What's that white power forum, maybe you would like it there.

Take your racism elsewhere. What's that white power forum, maybe you would like it there.

It's hardly racism.

We shouldn't have to be forced to learn a religion we don't believe in.

What, would you like your kids to be forced to be Baptists, and be baptized at public school? I think not.

And sorry, I'm not white...

Are you stupid or are you trying to say we are? .

With RO, the answer is 'yes' and 'yes'.

Im in ur skools, lernin ur muzlim.

It's hardly racism.
Oh please. I know this is based on racism, you know this is based on racism, everyone here knows you are a fucking racist and hate Muslims/Middle Eastern people. I've seen glass cloudier than this topic.

We shouldn't have to be forced to learn a religion we don't believe in.

What, would you like your kids to be forced to be Baptists, and be baptized at public school? I think not.
Let me repeat it.
That's a nice cherry, where's the tree? Did you chop it down and burn it so only you can have a cherry?

And sorry, I'm not white...

Which, if true, is possibly why you've been overcompensating. I suggest consultation with the medical profession. Or suicide. Whichever works the best.

Teach your kids to politely say to the teacher privately, "I'm sorry, I am not comfortable with this. Learning about another culture is fine. Asking me to profess faith in it goes against my beliefs." Then have them participate in all aspects of the unit EXCEPT those asking them to roleplay religious beliefs. Have them write about the beliefs, discuss the beliefs, compare them to other beliefs, but refuse to profess them themselves. And if they get a failing grade for the unit 1)fight it like hell if they've done everything else but profess the belief and in the meanwhile tell your kid that standing up for their beliefs is not always easy -- but the right thing to do.

Be ready to go up and explain that you have no problem with learning ABOUT a culture, but being IMMERSED in its religious aspects is something your child will not take part in.

*snip*

I believe you are looking for Stormfront.

Also, what does 9/11 have to do with learning about other cultures? Yes, I know the Muslims deserve to burn in bacon grease, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from them. Know thy enemy.

Which, if true, is possibly why you've been overcompensating. I suggest consultation with the medical profession. Or suicide. Whichever works the best.

Classic Nodinia argument there - never bother with disproving the facts.

Im in ur skools, lernin ur muzlim.
Reedin ur keranz

Classic Nodinia argument there - never bother with disproving the facts.
I'm sorry, did you have any facts to disprove? Maybe you should source the point for this thread, which you cleverly hid in the middle of the OP.

I'm sorry, did you have any facts to disprove? Maybe you should source the point for this thread, which you cleverly hid in the middle of the OP.

Yes, see the links I provided.

Are you saying that the school never accomodated Muslims?

Never tried to stamp out Christian activities?

Hmm?

Are you ok with the Talibanization of your children in a public school, where kids are forcibly kept separate (boys and girls) for purely religious reasons?

Would you be ok with having your kids forced to learn a religion, including reciting its oaths (in this case, I don't care whether it's Islam or Christianity - I don't think you would like having your kids "baptized" in class as a learning experience)?

Or would you homeschool them?

Or, are you saying the Supreme Court decision doesn't say that the remedy for not liking what the public schools force on you is homeschooling?

Any one will do...

Yes, see the links I provided.
You didn't source the point of the topic.

Are you saying that the school never accomodated Muslims?

Never tried to stamp out Christian activities?

Hmm?
Let me quote my first post for you.

Maybe they didn't have to be forced this time, 14 years later, BECAUSE THEY WERE IN A FUCKING COURT CASE FORCING THEM TO RECOGNIZED FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION.


Are you ok with the Talibanization of your children in a public school,
See the first reply. Sources, mother fucker, can you find them?

There are THREE remedies they suggested, RO, not just the one you bolded.

If parents do not like the rules imposed by those schools, they can seek redress in school boards or legislatures; Otherwise known as, get up petitions and change the laws.

Or they can move. Which people have done over issues as trivial as "OMGWTF my kid's not wearing a uniform!"

It does NOT say the ONLY SOLUTION is private or homeschooling.

There are THREE remedies they suggested, RO, not just the one you bolded.

Otherwise known as, get up petitions and change the laws.

Or they can move. Which people have done over issues as trivial as "OMGWTF my kid's not wearing a uniform!"

It does NOT say the ONLY SOLUTION is private or homeschooling.

I didn't say it was the ONLY solution.

I pointed out that it IS a solution, and I'm glad we have the option.

Oh my God!
Stop the presses!
RO/DK/Sierra/whatever has found an article where a school follow the ruling of a court!!!

I know it's surprising to find the justice system work and that school actually change their policies when they are told they are illegal, but who'd a thought it would be newsworthy?

Hardly "ebil muzlims" material.

I didn't say it was the ONLY solution.

I pointed out that it IS a solution, and I'm glad we have the option.
Obfuscation.

Classic Nodinia argument there - never bother with disproving the facts.

With you? Firstly we'd have to find facts to disprove. For instance

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club...

followed by

San Diego Unified was sued in 1993 when it denied a University City High School student's request to hold lunchtime Bible fellowship. The court found the district discriminated against religion, because it allowed secular clubs to meet during lunch.

which logically leads to
"The Carver students are allowed to pray during non-instructional time just the same as there are Bible study clubs and Christian clubs," he said.

Please insert in pipe and smoke.

Go off and do this crap for Worldnet daily. They care.

Obfuscation.

Nope. Your claim is witless.

Also, your other assertions that there is no point is standard fare for you.

Go back and read the post with the points laid out for the illiterate.

I didn't say it was the ONLY solution.

I pointed out that it IS a solution, and I'm glad we have the option.


I disagree. You've stressed ONLY the homeschooling:
Or, are you saying the Supreme Court decision doesn't say that the remedy for not liking what the public schools force on you is homeschooling?

They provided three remedies. You've carped on about only one.

That's like me reading an article on the spread of HIV which mentions always using a latex condom as a preventative measure, making sure you and a prospective partner are both tested for HIV, and that three groups that seem to have a large number of infections in the US are hispanic women whose partners bring it home, homosexuals who didn't practice safer sex practices ten years ago, and blood transfusion recipents and saying,

"OMG if you have a tranfusion you will get AIDS!!!!!"

Nope. Your claim is witless.

Also, your other assertions that there is no point is standard fare for you.

Go back and read the post with the points laid out for the illiterate.
Ehh, wrong. I said you didn't source the actual point of the thread. Let me whittle your giant piece of asshattery down to what the topic is actually about judging by the title and continued argument.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).

Good thing we have this, in the recent Supreme Court decision on Morse v. Frederick:
Sources, mother fucker, can you find them?

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html



But what's this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club...



Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).

Good thing we have this, in the recent Supreme Court decision on Morse v. Frederick:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

The school was forced to allow Christian activities on school grounds, and now they're voluntarily allowing Muslim activities. This of course is a conflict because of course Muslims are evil!

I disagree. You've stressed ONLY the homeschooling:


They provided three remedies. You've carped on about only one.

That's like me reading an article on the spread of HIV which mentions always using a latex condom as a preventative measure, making sure you and a prospective partner are both tested for HIV, and that three groups that seem to have a large number of infections in the US are hispanic women whose partners bring it home, homosexuals who didn't practice safer sex practices ten years ago, and blood transfusion recipents and said,

"OMG if you have a tranfusion you will get AIDS!!!!!"

I stressed one, because that's the option I would choose. Where does it say that I have to carp on the others?

Changing the content of the Ninth Circuit is a dead end - so forget passing laws - the Ninth will just kill them.

Sources, mother fucker, can you find them?

KNOCK IT OFF.

Yes, see the links I provided.

Are you saying that the school never accomodated Muslims?

Never tried to stamp out Christian activities?

Hmm?

Are you ok with the Talibanization of your children in a public school, where kids are forcibly kept separate (boys and girls) for purely religious reasons?

Would you be ok with having your kids forced to learn a religion, including reciting its oaths (in this case, I don't care whether it's Islam or Christianity - I don't think you would like having your kids "baptized" in class as a learning experience)?

Or would you homeschool them?

Or, are you saying the Supreme Court decision doesn't say that the remedy for not liking what the public schools force on you is homeschooling?

Any one will do...

Sheesh what is wrong with you man? Talk about handbags.

I have just read both of your links and what seems perfectly clear to me is that this school has made provision under freedom of religoin laws for Muslim students to have their daily pray time.

This is right and proper.

What is also clear is that in 1993, the same school did not allow a Christian lunch club, presumably on the basis of seperation of church and state, and the laws that govern this.

This is also right and proper.

If the Muslims had asked for a lunch time club for the study of the Quran and it had been accepted then you could call double standards.

If the Christian faith had daily prayers as a normal part of the faith, and the school refused to make provision for this, then you could call double standards.

But this all looks fine, above board and complient with the law. Soooo whats your beef?

Reedin ur keranz


burkha-ing ur wimminz.....

Go back and read the post with the points laid out for the illiterate.

Actually mr "not white so I can't be racist",I did one better and read the article.

What's happening: A substitute teacher claimed that Carver Elementary School in San Diego was indoctrinating students into Islam, and that a teacher's aide led Muslim children in prayer. An investigation failed to substantiate the claims
Single teacher alleges crap, crap not found.

I don't see a number of parts that you quoted.

I stressed one, because that's the option I would choose. Where does it say that I have to carp on the others?

Changing the content of the Ninth Circuit is a dead end - so forget passing laws - the Ninth will just kill them.

Let's try this again:

Supreme Court decision doesn't say that the remedy for not liking what the public schools force on you is homeschooling?

Words have, you know, meanings.

The remedy = singular, as in the only one.

Really now.

He can source the topic of the thread or he can stop arguing. What he did source had nothing to do with the title or his continued arguments, maybe you should get on to him.

I think s/he (sorry, Kat, don't know your gender) was referring to your flaming.

KNOCK IT OFF.
He can source the topic of the thread or he can stop arguing. What he did source had nothing to do with the title or his continued arguments, maybe you should get on to him.

He can source the topic of the thread or he can stop arguing. What he did source had nothing to do with the title or his continued arguments, maybe you should get on to him.

What I'm getting on is you flaming him. Calling someone a mother fucker is not acceptable.

Do we actually have to go through this?

He can source the topic of the thread or he can stop arguing. What he did source had nothing to do with the title or his continued arguments, maybe you should get on to him.

There are plenty of links sourcing in the OP.

What I'm getting on is you flaming him. Calling someone a mother fucker is not acceptable.

Do we actually have to go through this?
It's a pop culture reference.


There are plenty of links sourcing in the OP.
See? See? He is fucking around. He only sourced a fairly irrelevant news article so he can avoid sourcing the rest of his stuff.


Source the part of your post I quoted - the part the topic is actually about.

It's a pop culture reference.



See? See? He is fucking around. He only sourced a fairly irrelevant news article so he can avoid sourcing the rest of his stuff.


Source the part of your post I quoted - the part the topic is actually about.

There's also a link to a Supreme Court decision, and several links to news articles.

Hardly irrelevant.

There's also a link to a Supreme Court decision, and several links to news articles.

Hardly irrelevant.
The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Source now or shut up.

I think s/he (sorry, Kat, don't know your gender) was referring to your flaming.

She.

She.

k, I'll remember that, thanks. :)

From the OP:

Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.
Source please?

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.
Source please?

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.
Source please?

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).

Source please?

Source now or shut up.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676

It's a pop culture reference.

I don't care what spin you put on it: your posting history speaks for itself. It is actually possible to disagree with and disprove what someone is saying without name calling.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676

Irrespective of that being an editorial, it still doesn't name the school. Maybe thats why it wasn't in the OP?

It's hardly racism.

We shouldn't have to be forced to learn a religion we don't believe in.


No one is forcing anyone to learn a religion.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676

Now do you have a non-bullshit source?

Political Correctness: Seems the ACLU couldn't care less that a San Diego public school has set aside 15 minutes of classroom instruction time for Muslim students to pray, while non-Muslims twiddle their thumbs. It's during a recess period.


Right now it has no plans to legally challenge the budding madrassa as endorsement of a religion by government. Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The special accommodations for Carver Elementary's nearly 100 Somali Muslims don't stop with organized prayer. The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet. Amazed this wasn't done years ago for the Jews.

And the K-8 school has even added Arabic — the language of the Quran — to its curriculum, while segregating classes for girls, a la the Taliban. ESL classes aren't remotely unusual, particularly in California. Segregating students by gender is a very old idea, it's been done all over the country.

Seriously, can you come up with any real sources? Or more paranoid right wing editorial bullshit?

Irrespective of that being an editorial, it still doesn't name the school. Maybe thats why it wasn't in the OP?

As much as I think RO's a jackass, it's the third paragraph, first sentence. Carver Elementary.

Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

You didn't source this, nor did you make it clear you were quoting it. You left out the funny part at the end, btw....

There's a stealth jihad under way in our schools, and school officials, wittingly or not, are aiding it. The ACLU, which operates from a double standard, refuses to step in. That leaves it up to parents to stand up and insist that the purpose of our tax-supported public schools is to educate our children in English as Americans.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676
No tosser was good enough to add their name to the piece, but it does feature as writers the likes of Victor Davis Hanson and C Krauthammer, so I think we can guess what barrell they were scraping at the time.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676
Congratulations, slick, your no longer plagiarizing some one else. Now source the facts, not who you stole it from.. if you can.

And I hate to tell you this, but Khadgar is right, schools around the country have been testing off and on segregating classes by gender to test if that will increase test scores and attention spans.

Also, oh no, they are teaching another language? Stop the presses. Maybe in the future they will be useful in the real world because they know some Arabic. Getting rid of people able to converse with the country you are invading is a bad idea.

Congratulations, slick, your no longer plagiarizing some one else. Now source the facts, not who you stole it from.

Prove that the IBD is making it up - they have a better reputation for the facts than the New York Times Judith Miller/Jayson Blair School of Journalism.

They're not making it up.

You still haven't disproved any of the other points at all.

Prove that the IBD is making it up - they have a better reputation for the facts than the New York Times Judith Miller/Jayson Blair School of Journalism.
I don't give a fuck if he pulled it off the front page of the times or out of his ass, that doesn't mean you can go around asserting an editorial is fact without backing it up. And from the spin on most of it, it looks like the latter.

Also, quoting an editorialist's opinion as a fact like you did up there makes you look like an asshat.

As much as I think RO's a jackass, it's the third paragraph, first sentence. Carver Elementary.


Theres no mention of seperate male/female classes or the removal of pork in the san diego newspaper piece however. In the section he failed to identify as not his own it states

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts
and for this no school is named specifically.

I don't give a fuck if he pulled it off the front page of the times or out of his ass, that doesn't mean you can go around asserting an editorial is fact without backing it up.

Sure can. In the case of Investor's Business Daily, I can.

He has editors and fact checkers.

I see you're up to your usual tirade of cursing, and still can't disprove any of the stuff I had links for.

Sure can. In the case of Investor's Business Daily, I can.

He has editors and fact checkers.
What language does this shit need to be in for you to understand it? I can do Spanish. Maybe Italian.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676

EDITORIALS &
OPINION

That is an opinion piece by an unnamed author, not an article to be fact checked or peer edited. Take your shit back to school, son.

Congratulations, slick, your no longer plagiarizing some one else. Now source the facts, not who you stole it from.. if you can.

I don't give a fuck if he pulled it off the front page of the times or out of his ass, that doesn't mean you can go around asserting an editorial is fact without backing it up. And from the spin on most of it, it looks like the latter.

Also, quoting an editorialist's opinion as a fact like you did up there makes you look like an asshat.

Ignoring a friendly warning don't do much for you either.
Have a nice vacation.

What language does this shit need to be in for you to understand it? I can do Spanish. Maybe Italian.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676

That is an editorial by an unnamed author, not an article to be fact checked or peer edited. Take your shit back to school, son.

I guess you gave up on trying to disprove the other FACTS in the OP... or disproving their links...

Going to go back to cursing?

Prove that the IBD is making it up - they have a better reputation for the facts than the New York Times Judith Miller/Jayson Blair School of Journalism.

They're not making it up.

You still haven't disproved any of the other points at all.

He has and I have.

I guess you gave up on trying to disprove the other FACTS in the OP... or disproving their links...

Your only link to the point of the article is an opinion piece.
Source something so I can disprove it.

And I did not call him an asshat, I said what he was doing made him look like one.

Sure can. In the case of Investor's Business Daily, I can.

He has editors and fact checkers.

I see you're up to your usual tirade of cursing, and still can't disprove any of the stuff I had links for.

Why is there no mention of the removal of pork products and seperation of genders in the san diego article?

Why do you present allegations that have been disproved as fact?

It is clearly the case that they are following the logic of the 1993 ruling.

It's hardly racism.

We shouldn't have to be forced to learn a religion we don't believe in.

What, would you like your kids to be forced to be Baptists, and be baptized at public school? I think not.

There is a difference between being forced to convert and being forced to learn about. Do you see the distinction? Children learning comparative religions is beneficial to all of society even if they are atheist. I learned Calculus up to Calc 2 in college and even took finite math, I never use it, but I learned it. Is that a travesty as well?

He has and I have.

You haven't disproved any of the sourced points at all.

Going to say that you disproved that the Supreme Court ruled that I can homeschool as a remedy?

Going to say that you disproved that the school system there was against Christianity until forced by a court to accomodate it?

I could go on...

You haven't disproved any of the sourced points at all.

Going to say that you disproved that the Supreme Court ruled that I can homeschool as a remedy?

Going to say that you disproved that the school system there was against Christianity until forced by a court to accomodate it?

I could go on...

Theres nothing to remedy.

They prevented practice of religon within school property thinking they were obeying the law. They weren't and have amended their practices, hence the muslims can pray.

Do go on.

Why is there no mention of the removal of pork products and seperation of genders in the san diego article?

Why do you present allegations that have been disproved as fact?

It is clearly the case that they are following the logic of the 1993 ruling.

No, they're not.

The ruling in 1993 only applied to activities outside of classroom time.

Here, they are interrupting class time to provide prayer time.

I learned Calculus up to Calc 2 in college and even took finite math, I never use it, but I learned it. Is that a travesty as well?

No, just a waste of time. :p


*j/k, but runs anyway*

Teach your kids to politely say to the teacher privately, "I'm sorry, I am not comfortable with this. Learning about another culture is fine. Asking me to profess faith in it goes against my beliefs." Then have them participate in all aspects of the unit EXCEPT those asking them to roleplay religious beliefs. Have them write about the beliefs, discuss the beliefs, compare them to other beliefs, but refuse to profess them themselves. And if they get a failing grade for the unit 1)fight it like hell if they've done everything else but profess the belief and in the meanwhile tell your kid that standing up for their beliefs is not always easy -- but the right thing to do.

Be ready to go up and explain that you have no problem with learning ABOUT a culture, but being IMMERSED in its religious aspects is something your child will not take part in.

And here once again is why I love Katganistan :fluffle:

No, they're not.

The ruling in 1993 only applied to activities outside of classroom time.

Here, they are interrupting class time to provide prayer time.

No they're not, it was explicitly stated it's during a recess period.


From your own source (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html):

"The Carver students are allowed to pray during non-instructional time just the same as there are Bible study clubs and Christian clubs," he said.

The district's lawyers agreed.

The students are allowed to pray each day at 1 p.m. during a 15-minute recess, officials said.

You haven't disproved any of the sourced points at all.

Going to say that you disproved that the Supreme Court ruled that I can homeschool as a remedy?
That is a side-point at best and is not relevant to the bulk of the topic.

Going to say that you disproved that the school system there was against Christianity until forced by a court to accomodate it?

I could go on...
You would first had to proove said point.

There is a difference between being forced to convert and being forced to learn about. Do you see the distinction? Children learning comparative religions is beneficial to all of society even if they are atheist. I learned Calculus up to Calc 2 in college and even took finite math, I never use it, but I learned it. Is that a travesty as well?

As we've yet to see names and some facts to the whole " Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's..... " allegation, I'd ignore it for the moment.

And here once again is why I love Katganistan :fluffle:

We've had the PTA tell the School Board that we won't tolerate it.

That works far better.

Gee, no pork on the school menu...
http://www.sandi.net/food/menus.htm

No, they're not.

The ruling in 1993 only applied to activities outside of classroom time.

Here, they are interrupting class time to provide prayer time.

However they are not praying in class time, at the instruction or behest of the staff. The school referred to it as treating the need for prayer at a specific time as they would an "insulin injection". No one is required to attend. Again, much smoke, no fire.

Gee, no pork on the school menu...
http://www.sandi.net/food/menus.htm

And when another religion has "eating pork" in it's tennet we might have a problem.

So far, it's only prudent to not serve what a portion of the school has a problem with.

Gee, no pork on the school menu...
http://www.sandi.net/food/menus.htm

Italian meat sauce is made with sausage, which is pork. Breakfast sandwich is ambiguous at best. Tell me, do you ever get tired of getting your ass completely kicked in debate? It seems it'd get tiresome, I know I get tired of doing it, but you just keep coming back! Atleast you always bring just enough rope to hang yourself.

Gee, no pork on the school menu...
http://www.sandi.net/food/menus.htm

Gee, where does it say the beef is Halal?

We've had the PTA tell the School Board that we won't tolerate it.

That works far better.

In other words, the FIRST remedy the Supreme Court suggested:

If parents do not like the rules imposed by those schools, they can seek redress in school boards or legislatures;

The one you didn't stress because it wasn't the one you picked?

And when another religion has "eating pork" in it's tennet we might have a problem.

So far, it's only prudent to not serve what a portion of the school has a problem with.

Which is why peanut butter is banned in a lot of schools.

Italian meat sauce is made with sausage, which is pork. Breakfast sandwich is ambiguous at best. Tell me, do you ever get tired of getting your ass completely kicked in debate? It seems it'd get tiresome, I know I get tired of doing it, but you just keep coming back! Atleast you always bring just enough rope to hang yourself.

I called them on the phone.

It's all beef. No pork, ever.

Tired of getting your ass kicked?

I called them on the phone.

It's all beef. No pork, ever.

Tired of getting your ass kicked?

Oh you called them. On the phone. You know, I don't think I ever ate pork in school either. DAMNED MUSLIMS! Oh and jews.

Maybe on their pizza, but that shit was so nasty I never ate it anyway. Also how does their menu in any way shape or form support any of the rest of your argument, even if I take your supposed phone call seriously?

Oh you called them. On the phone. You know, I don't think I ever ate pork in school either. DAMNED MUSLIMS! Oh and jews.

Maybe on their pizza, but that shit was so nasty I never ate it anyway. Also how does their menu in any way shape or form support any of the rest of your argument, even if I take your supposed phone call seriously?

The menu has no pork entries on it. It's been confirmed. According to them, it will NEVER have pork entries on it.

Gee, no pork on the school menu...
http://www.sandi.net/food/menus.htm
Not to butt in to a convo in progress, but...

Where the hell did y'all go to school, if you were getting pork for lunch?

At my school, the closest we ever might have got to pork was hotdogs, and I highly doubt there was any real meat of any kind involved in those. We got grilled cheese alternating with meat nuggets. Once a month maybe some "pizza", comprised of bread dough with spaghetti sauce and cheese on it.

I know I sure didn't see a pork chop on my lunch tray, not in 12 years of public school, and it sure wasn't anything to do with Muslims in my district. It was for the same reason I never saw shrimp or caviar on that tray, either.

The menu has no pork entries on it. It's been confirmed. According to them, it will NEVER have pork entries on it.
Did they say why?

The menu has no pork entries on it. It's been confirmed. According to them, it will NEVER have pork entries on it.

Ok sparky, phone number and who you spoke to please. At 8am in fucking JULY at a public school.

BOTTLE!

You mean the Muslims were controlling my pork consumption from when I started going to school thirty-five years ago?

(And I always thought it if it was to do with dietary laws, it had more to do with the preponderance of Jewish kids, faculty and other staff in NY. Go figure.)

Sure can. In the case of Investor's Business Daily, I can.

He has editors and fact checkers.

I see you're up to your usual tirade of cursing, and still can't disprove any of the stuff I had links for.

And by using your same example from before so did Jayson Blair. Editorials/Opinion pieces are given much more freedom from editorial review than regular news. This sounds a lot like Bill O'Reilly being called out by David Letterman for saying "thousands are doing this" when he can only site one example. Several people have both politely and impolitely pointed out the flaws in your OP. I suggest you go back and source the parts of the argument you are trying to make instead of hiding them in somebody else's OP-ED piece.

Ok sparky, phone number and who you spoke to please. At 8am in fucking JULY at a public school.

Ahem.

Without the nicknames, please?

The menu has no pork entries on it. It's been confirmed. According to them, it will NEVER have pork entries on it.

And are all their products Halal?

You haven't disproved any of the sourced points at all.

Going to say that you disproved that the Supreme Court ruled that I can homeschool as a remedy?

Going to say that you disproved that the school system there was against Christianity until forced by a court to accomodate it?

I could go on...

The Supreme Court ruled there were three options of which you are harping on only one as Katganistan pointed out earlier. You make the leap of logic that they were against Christianity when that is not really the case. They determined that the bible study club was a violation of the separation of church and state. The courts set them straight and they allowed the bible study class. That's called using the law to work with your case. In light of that 1993 ruling the school didn't attempt to detract from daily prayer time fir Muslim students when they moved in because they were already told in 1993 that they must account for the free expression of religion. The free expression of religion is different than indoctrination and forcing someone to follow a religion. Me allowing you to practice your form of Judaism doesn't make me less Catholic does it? As several posters have pointed out to you there are flaws in your quoting an OP-ED piece as FACT. OP-ED pieces are exactly that, opinion editorials. You have been weighed, measured, and deemed unworthy of debate here in general, good-bye

No they're not, it was explicitly stated it's during a recess period.


From your own source (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html):

Ha HA, he keeps getting pawned by his own sources. He attempts to lie and make things up out of whole cloth and gets caught again and again. It's really quite..ahem.. amusing.

We've had the PTA tell the School Board that we won't tolerate it.

That works far better.

all within the scope of the law which is what you are failing to recognize with your illogical tirade.

The Supreme Court ruled there were three options of which you are harping on only one as Katganistan pointed out earlier. You make the leap of logic that they were against Christianity when that is not really the case. They determined that the bible study club was a violation of the separation of church and state. The courts set them straight and they allowed the bible study class. That's called using the law to work with your case. In light of that 1993 ruling the school didn't attempt to detract from daily prayer time fir Muslim students when they moved in because they were already told in 1993 that they must account for the free expression of religion. The free expression of religion is different than indoctrination and forcing someone to follow a religion. Me allowing you to practice your form of Judaism doesn't make me less Catholic does it? As several posters have pointed out to you there are flaws in your quoting an OP-ED piece as FACT. OP-ED pieces are exactly that, opinion editorials. You have been weighed, measured, and deemed unworthy of debate here in general, good-bye

I provided the link so you could see the other options. I'm making the point about homeschooling being a legal option, so I provided a link.

Now, you're saying I didn't mention the other two for some nefarious reason which you're pulling out of your rectum.

You haven't disproved a thing.

I provided the link so you could see the other options. I'm making the point about homeschooling being a legal option, so I provided a link.

Now, you're saying I didn't mention the other two for some nefarious reason which you're pulling out of your rectum.

You haven't disproved a thing.

No, I didn't say you didn't mention the other two. I said you keep carrying on only about the one. I just pointed out by your own article that there were more than that one option. Further, what is there for me to disprove in an Op-ED?
An Op-ED piece of proof of one person's (an unnamed person at that) opinion. Their opinion is more important than mine how? Go back and read through this entire thread to see where the many people have showed you where you are wrong. You'll ignore it and then I'll ignore you because I hate arguing with children. They always just point at the the one thing and say, "see there it is!?"

I
You haven't disproved a thing.

So far (1) allegations against carver dismissed by investigation (2) no evidence of pork removal/seperation of genders because of muslim pupils (3) no sources to back up claims in editorial piece you 'didn't clearly identify as not yours'.

Plus you didn't explain why they don't idenify whether or not the beef (and presumably other foods) are Halal if they are catering to muslims.

However they are not praying in class time, at the instruction or behest of the staff. The school referred to it as treating the need for prayer at a specific time as they would an "insulin injection". No one is required to attend. Again, much smoke, no fire.

Oh look, a thing disproved by your own source RO

"You haven't disproved a thing" said with tears welling up in the eyes.

I provided the link so you could see the other options. I'm making the point about homeschooling being a legal option, so I provided a link.

Now, you're saying I didn't mention the other two for some nefarious reason which you're pulling out of your rectum.

You haven't disproved a thing.

I'm still waiting on that phone number and name.

Ok sparky, phone number and who you spoke to please. At 8am in fucking JULY at a public school.

God damn this guy is so laughable at best. If he didn't really believe his own delusions it would be a regular laugh riot.

Ok folks, I'm done here. He has been dismantled time and time again but refuses to lose gracefully. I have work that needs to get done before a deadline so it is off to the races for me. Enjoy the pounding RO/DK/EO, it couldn't happen toa nicer guy.

God damn this guy is so laughable at best. If he didn't really believe his own delusions it would be a regular laugh riot.

Its hard to tell if he is serious in any sense, or just looking for attention. Treating either case as just being "meat for the grinder" is the best approach. As you may have noticed, not much effort is required to get it ground. And the vast majority of his posts on the subject suffer from the same flaws - to the extent that deliberate and willfull dishonesty might be imagined, in order to come to the conclusions offered, from the material presented.

Ok folks, I'm done here. He has been dismantled time and time again but refuses to lose gracefully. I have work that needs to get done before a deadline so it is off to the races for me. Enjoy the pounding RO/DK/EO, it couldn't happen toa nicer guy.

I notice you haven't disproven anything yet.

Why don't you call the school district yourself?

I notice you haven't disproven anything yet.

Why don't you call the school district yourself?

'Cause you refuse to give a phone number, refuse to say who you supposedly talked to. Lemme guess. Miss Terry?

I notice you haven't disproven anything yet.

Why don't you call the school district yourself?

Since you obviously have a number and contact name, wouldn't it be easier for you to provide it? a source, so to speak?

'Cause you refuse to give a phone number, refuse to say who you supposedly talked to. Lemme guess. Miss Terry?

Nope. Why don't you call the school district superintendent?

If the Christian faith had daily prayers as a normal part of the faith, and the school refused to make provision for this, then you could call double standards.

We're not supposed to have daily prayers? :eek: Somebody should really let the rest of us know that....a lot of us have been using time for that every day.

Since you obviously have a number and contact name, wouldn't it be easier for you to provide it?

I spoke to the superintendent.

Khadgar is going to get owned so badly...

Dr. Rich Cansdale (858) 627-7408

We're not supposed to have daily prayers? :eek: Somebody should really let the rest of us know that....a lot of us have been using time for that every day.

Then I guess you should stop that! I think you're okay for a bit of daily bread, and I'm pretty certian that you should forgive those who trespass against you?

And the Halal certification.......?

My opinions are simple:

You are entitled to have as much freedom as you want as long as this freedom doesnt harm someone else´s freedom.

If you want to pray while in school, Ok. If you dont want to see pork in the school cafeteria, but other people DO want to eat pork, that is not ok: you´re not forced to eat it, but the food wont be changed.

My opinions are simple:

You are entitled to have as much freedom as you want as long as this freedom doesnt harm someone else´s freedom.

If you want to pray while in school, Ok. If you dont want to see pork in the school cafeteria, but other people DO want to eat pork, that is not ok: you´re not forced to eat it, but the food wont be changed.

Not quite. 1) As Bottle pointed out, it's expensive. 2) Two large populations cannot eat it, and cannot eat anything from a kitchen that has prepared it. 3) Peanut butter is also off many menus because of allergies; it's really not an issue.

Dr. Rich Cansdale (858) 627-7408

Ok, Khadgar, there's your number. Call and talk to the man. I'd also independently find out the number and ask to speak to the superintendent, but that's 'cos I'm a skeptical little thing.

Ok, Khadgar, there's your number. Call and talk to the man. I'd also independently find out the number and ask to speak to the superintendent, but that's 'cos I'm a skeptical little thing.

A good question to ask would by why there is no pork - if any.

3) Peanut butter is also off many menus because of allergies; it's really not an issue.
A good point. At my schools, no nuts were ever included in school meals except as part of pre-packaged food items (like individually-wrapped cookies).

There was also a separate lunch line for lactose-intolerant kids, probably because I grew up in Dairy Country and therefore we viewed any lactose intolerant person as some kind of circus freak. It was discrimination!!! OPPRESSION, I TELLS YA!!

Not quite. 1) As Bottle pointed out, it's expensive. 2) Two large populations cannot eat it, and cannot eat anything from a kitchen that has prepared it. 3) Peanut butter is also off many menus because of allergies; it's really not an issue.

I'm starting to like my school.... we have pork (don't really like it though) and we have peanut butter a lot. If you have allergies, they'll give you something else, or you can bring your lunch. The rest of us shouldn't have to go peanut butterless... :p Should we get rid of the cheese and the milk for the lactose intolerent?

I'm starting to like my school.... we have pork (don't really like it though) and we have peanut butter a lot. If you have allergies, they'll give you something else, or you can bring your lunch. The rest of us shouldn't have to go peanut butterless... :p Should we get rid of the cheese and the milk for the lactose intolerent?


The difference in the case of peanuts is that a person with a peanut allergy can have a serious reaction from simply eating food that was prepared using utensils that have contacted peanuts. A lactose-intolerant person, on the other hand, needs to consume fairly significant amounts of dairy to experience effects. It's pretty easy to just not put cheese on some portions of food; it's much harder to prepare some foods with peanuts while keeping peanut dust and peanut residue completely contained and away from other utensils and foods in the same school kitchen.

Also, the allergic reaction to peanuts is more sudden and medically dangerous. Lactose intolerance most often results in gas and stomach problems which, while often very nasty (my partner is lactose intolerant), are really not to be compared to the risk of fatal anaphylactic shock among people with peanut allergies.

Think about it from a purely pragmatic point of view: if Little Timmy accidentally has some cheese pizza and gets a tummy ache, odds are there won't be any serious fallout. If, however, Little Timmy goes into anaphylaxis and dies, the school district is probably going to have some serious lawyers' fees to worry about.

...I've never heard of ANY school ever serving pork...Bacon, ham, pork chops, etc. is all expensive to buy, and difficult to prepare well en masse. trichinoisis anyone?

Read a case of a woman that was eating a take-out and went into some(anephlatic?) reaction that actually killed her due to trace elements. Apparently the resturaunt had placed thefood into the take-out foil tins with a utensil that had a tiny amount of an oil containing some peanut derivative on it.....Scary shite, if you had it.

...I've never heard of ANY school ever serving pork...Bacon, ham, pork chops, etc. is all expensive to buy, and difficult to prepare well en masse. trichinoisis anyone?

That's because far as I know none do. The question DK should of asked the guy was "How long has this been your policy".

The difference in the case of peanuts is that a person with a peanut allergy can have a serious reaction from simply eating food that was prepared using utensils that have contacted peanuts. A lactose-intolerant person, on the other hand, needs to consume fairly significant amounts of dairy to experience effects. It's pretty easy to just not put cheese on some portions of food; it's much harder to prepare some foods with peanuts while keeping peanut dust and peanut residue completely contained and away from other utensils and foods in the same school kitchen.

Also, the allergic reaction to peanuts is more sudden and medically dangerous. Lactose intolerance most often results in gas and stomach problems which, while often very nasty (my partner is lactose intolerant), are really not to be compared to the risk of fatal anaphylactic shock among people with peanut allergies.

Think about it from a purely pragmatic point of view: if Little Timmy accidentally has some cheese pizza and gets a tummy ache, odds are there won't be any serious fallout. If, however, Little Timmy goes into anaphylaxis and dies, the school district is probably going to have some serious lawyers' fees to worry about.



First of all, how does Little Timmy "accidentally" eat cheese pizza? That sounds kinda difficult... Secondly, I thought we were talking about peanut butter.... where does this peanut dust come from? But keeping it seperate must not be too hard... nobody at any school I've been to (all 4 of them had peanut butter) has ever had a food related problem... well, except a couple diabetics, but they just had to eat something or walk around. And yeah, I know about the lactose intolerent thing. Probably not as much as you, but still. Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't mean to sound like I didn't care about the people with food allergies... about half of my post was sarcastic.

...I've never heard of ANY school ever serving pork...Bacon, ham, pork chops, etc. is all expensive to buy, and difficult to prepare well en masse. trichinoisis anyone?

Mine has bacon every morning that we have a hot breakfast, which is probably a few times a week. We have ham for lunch a lot, and we have pork chops probably a couple times a month..... and we're supposed to be a "poor" school...

First of all, how does Little Timmy "accidentally" eat cheese pizza? That sounds kinda difficult... Secondly, I thought we were talking about peanut butter.... where does this peanut dust come from? But keeping it seperate must not be too hard... nobody at any school I've been to (all 4 of them had peanut butter) has ever had a food related problem... well, except a couple diabetics, but they just had to eat something or walk around. And yeah, I know about the lactose intolerent thing. Probably not as much as you, but still. Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't mean to sound like I didn't care about the people with food allergies... about half of my post was sarcastic.

I highly doubt no one had a food-related problem. you might not have known about it (astoundingly, we don't force people to reveal their medical problems to the general population).

the issue with peanut allergies is in everything relating to peanuts: oils, particles, butters, etc. There are people who are reactive enough to become reactive from someone nearby eating something with peanuts. It is one of the most common, as well as one of the most severe (due to the nature of peanut oil) food allergies, and is increasingly common.

First of all, how does Little Timmy "accidentally" eat cheese pizza? That sounds kinda difficult...

Kids forget. They don't always remember to watch their allergies or take their meds or whatever. And sometimes the over-worked, under-paid cafeteria staff will forget which of the 600 kids they serve is supposed to get the non-dairy lunch.


Secondly, I thought we were talking about peanut butter.... where does this peanut dust come from? But keeping it seperate must not be too hard... nobody at any school I've been to (all 4 of them had peanut butter) has ever had a food related problem... well, except a couple diabetics, but they just had to eat something or walk around. And yeah, I know about the lactose intolerent thing. Probably not as much as you, but still. Just to clear up any confusion, I didn't mean to sound like I didn't care about the people with food allergies... about half of my post was sarcastic.
It's a hijack anyhow, so I don't see much point in pursuing it further. :D

Mine has bacon every morning that we have a hot breakfast, which is probably a few times a week. We have ham for lunch a lot, and we have pork chops probably a couple times a month..... and we're supposed to be a "poor" school...
You get BREAKFAST?!

...I've never heard of ANY school ever serving pork...Bacon, ham, pork chops, etc. is all expensive to buy, and difficult to prepare well en masse. trichinoisis anyone?

The world is sooo strange sometimes.

When I was a kid we used to have bacon at school, and sausages.

Mine has bacon every morning that we have a hot breakfast, which is probably a few times a week. We have ham for lunch a lot, and we have pork chops probably a couple times a month..... and we're supposed to be a "poor" school...
your school serves breakfast to the general population on a regular basis?

looking at peapod, it looks like pork chops are around $5 or $6 a pound, compared to chicken nuggets, which are around 50 cents an oz.

Ham as a cold cut is one thing. I'm talking more of a real ham, like...spiral cut, etc.

Nope. Why don't you call the school district superintendent?

Because you refuse to prove that you made the call. Perhaps afraid that someone might find proof that you're lying again hmm? McCarthy's "I have a list!" comes to mind.

Because you refuse to prove that you made the call. Perhaps afraid that someone might find proof that you're lying again hmm? McCarthy's "I have a list!" comes to mind.

Because I posted the name and number, and you were fool enough to post this without reading...

Because I posted the name and number, and you were fool enough to post this without reading...

Not really. I read enough of your earlier stall tactics to make the conclusion that you weren't really going to prove nuts.

Also, I've seen enough of your past tactics before. About as bad as the kind of hacks that inhabit American talk shows.

The world is sooo strange sometimes.

When I was a kid we used to have bacon at school, and sausages.

I know they offered bacon as part of our school breakfast program, but that was a heavily restricted program that was only offered to certain students (poverty, abuse cases, things like that).

I don't think we ever had sausage, as I can't think of anything it would be served as a side for, nor can I see them being the main course...

I called them on the phone.

It's all beef. No pork, ever.

Tired of getting your ass kicked?
Does anyone else just imagine the conversation like this?

*ring ring*

School : Hello, how can we help?
RO : Hi, I'd like to supplant an anti-Muslim argument, could you tell me if you don't put pork on the menu?
School : Right. Err..
RO : Do you or don't you?
School : No, we don't, because of possible serious hea-
RO : Thanks for your time!

*phone slammed down before '-lth concerns, as well as issues with several religions and what they can eat, and it doesn't stop anyone from their own religious freedom at all' cab be uttered*

your school serves breakfast to the general population on a regular basis?

looking at peapod, it looks like pork chops are around $5 or $6 a pound, compared to chicken nuggets, which are around 50 cents an oz.

Ham as a cold cut is one thing. I'm talking more of a real ham, like...spiral cut, etc.

Yeah, if we want it.... I thought everybody's did.... all you gotta do is give them your lunch number...

Yeah, we get that kind probably once a month.

I'm a little shocked by the level of rancor in this thread.

No wonder so many people are staying away from NS. Some of you are behaving like a bunch of screaming, hysterical children.

Yeah, if we want it.... I thought everybody's did.... all you gotta do is give them your lunch number...from what I've seen of school breakfast programs, they're heavily restricted (schools lose money serving food)

Yeah, we get that kind probably once a month.
...weird.

that would have sucked for me. I hate ham.

I'm a little shocked by the level of rancor in this thread.

No wonder so many people are staying away from NS. Some of you are behaving like a bunch of screaming, hysterical children.

It's one thing to prove that someone's argument is wrong - quite another to immediately reply with cursing and invective for post after post - only trying to argue after a mod makes the suggestion.

I'm a little shocked by the level of rancor in this thread.

No wonder so many people are staying away from NS. Some of you are behaving like a bunch of screaming, hysterical children.
Aye, it's a bit disappointing, really.

"FUCK YOU!"
"NO, FUCK YOU YOU MUSLIM HAHAHAHA!"

etc. etc.

Horrible, spittle-ridden posts have become the norm :(

Aye, it's a bit disappointing, really.

"FUCK YOU!"
"NO, FUCK YOU YOU MUSLIM HAHAHAHA!"

etc. etc.

Horrible, spittle-ridden posts have become the norm :(

Read back - I haven't been the one dispensing the cursing invective.

It's one thing to prove that someone's argument is wrong - quite another to immediately reply with cursing and invective for post after post - only trying to argue after a mod makes the suggestion.
Err no, you weren't actually making an argument that was even feasible to argue with, because it was Just Wrong To Begin With, and it was self-evidently so.

Read back - I haven't been the one dispensing the cursing invective.

We know, that's why you're still here and Pants is on an enforced holiday.

We know, that's why you're still here and Pants is on an enforced holiday.

Its always better on holiday
So much better on holiday
That's why we only work when
we need the money.

Err no, you weren't actually making an argument that was even feasible to argue with, because it was Just Wrong To Begin With, and it was self-evidently so.

Go back and read the links. It's not wrong to say that because a school district is forcing Islam on you that the Supreme Court says that you have one (of several) outs - the one I favor is homeschooling.

Go back and read the links. It's not wrong to say that because a school district is forcing Islam on you that the Supreme Court says that you have one (of several) outs - the one I favor is homeschooling.

You've yet to prove that a school district is forcing Islam on anyone, I'm afraid.

Go back and read the links. It's not wrong to say that because a school district is forcing Islam on you that the Supreme Court says that you have one (of several) outs - the one I favor is homeschooling.
Err it really seemed to me that you were simply arguing against allowing schools to have Muslim prayer groups, or anything to do with Islam in general so much as anything else.

It's one thing to prove that someone's argument is wrong - quite another to immediately reply with cursing and invective for post after post - only trying to argue after a mod makes the suggestion.

I agree. You know I can't stand your arguments, RO, but they have their place here. And I'm not about to council, as Nodinia has, that you go kill yourself...nor am I from first post on, just swear myself blue and describe how much I hate you. (because I don't)

It's really pathetic. And frankly...it's starting to make your arguments look good in comparison.

One of those...'you know it's REALLY bad when...' situations.

Err it really seemed to me that you were simply arguing against allowing schools to have Muslim prayer groups, or anything to do with Islam in general so much as anything else.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Maybe we should have a spelling contest.

You've yet to prove that a school district is forcing Islam on anyone, I'm afraid.

If they're telling your kid to recite the Islamic prayer of faith, they are.

Go back and read the links. It's not wrong to say that because a school district is forcing Islam on you that the Supreme Court says that you have one (of several) outs - the one I favor is homeschooling.

lets see where they are forcing...

Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.
Do they, or do they not have a bible club? They had a court order forcing them to allow one.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.
a) you have yet to demonstrate that the cafeteria banned pork because of, and ONLY because of muslims.
b) offering Arabic is not inherently biased any more than teaching latin is biased in favor of Catholics. Arabic is one of the most in-demand languages currently.
c) research has consistantly shown that segregating students has real benefits for both genders.
d) Prove that they segregate only that class, and that is the reason.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.Yeah, well, that is stupid.

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).Where is the court decision for that?

Good thing we have this, in the recent Supreme Court decision on Morse v. Frederick:
God I hate that decision.
Can everyone go to their school board? More than likely, yes. But it will likely be ineffective unless you have the social capital to make a big fuss.
Can everyone "just move to a new district"? No.
Can everyone home school? No.
Can everyone utilize private schools? No.

Err no, you weren't actually making an argument that was even feasible to argue with, because it was Just Wrong To Begin With, and it was self-evidently so.

I don't know how you all managed to miss it. He actually has an argument...why should students be forced to espouse religious beliefs in class, just because those beliefs aren't Christian?

Perhaps it's a weak argument...but not 'no argument'.

lWhere is the court decision for that?


It's referenced in the Supreme Court decision.

It's referenced in the Supreme Court decision.

k...I'll see if I can get around to reading that.

Now, what about the rest of my post?

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Maybe we should have a spelling contest.
'Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, maybe we should have a spelling contest'?

Interesting - to test your German, I'll write you a short text in Italian to translate, which will be about as similar and relevant in that field as a reading comprehension to a spelling test.

---

Anyway, I'll have a quick game of spot-the-bias in your OP alone :

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum.

Why are the attacks of September 11th relevant to this?

Oh sorry, 4 Muslims crashed planes in the US. Obviously, the whole Muslim faith must be BAD AND WRONG AND MUST NOT BE ACCEPTED AS A PART OF OUR WORLD!

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet

Also conflicts with the diet of Jews. Is the food all halal, by the way, or did you not bother to check this?

and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Or indeed, segregates classes for better results in some classes in which this has been proven to have good results. Is it just Arabic, or are there other seperated classes, too?

Also, IIRC, this isn't particularly rare in general.

Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

Perhaps they learned better after the first case, which also included nothing about Judaism in that particular establishment, so why don't you try and tell the truth instead of distorting the facts and trying to make out that they're against all non-Western religions?

If they're telling your kid to recite the Islamic prayer of faith, they are.

I don't know how you all managed to miss it. He actually has an argument...why should students be forced to espouse religious beliefs in class, just because those beliefs aren't Christian?

Perhaps it's a weak argument...but not 'no argument'.
That's just it, I've yet to see a credible source substantiating the claims that
Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.
from anyone. Unless I've missed it, but I don't believe I have. Granted, if such a thing were true, I can see why people would get annoyed.

If they're telling your kid to recite the Islamic prayer of faith, they are.
"What's happening: A substitute teacher claimed that Carver Elementary School in San Diego was indoctrinating students into Islam, and that a teacher's aide led Muslim children in prayer. An investigation failed to substantiate the claims, but the allegations have thrust Carver into a nationwide debate over prayer in schools." (from the SignOnSanDiego source)

Just thought I'd point that out for everyone.

"What's happening: A substitute teacher claimed that Carver Elementary School in San Diego was indoctrinating students into Islam, and that a teacher's aide led Muslim children in prayer. An investigation failed to substantiate the claims, but the allegations have thrust Carver into a nationwide debate over prayer in schools." (from the SignOnSanDiego source)

Just thought I'd point that out for everyone.

This is still going on? I'll give a 1 point I agree with RO Kimchi on and that is that no one should be forced to espouse another's religious beliefs in a public school. However, as the poster above notes in the linked article "an investigation failed to substantiate the claims." Therefor the point is moot and dead. But I will agree with EO RO DK on the point that no one should be forced to accept another's relgious beliefs. However, all children should learn about different religions for the sake of some God damn knowledge on the subject before you run off to bomb their countries, mmkay?

Just to reiterate, RO Kimchi is getting his panties in a bunch over something in an Op-ED article said which an investigation found to not be substantiated. I repeat, they investigated it and said it never happened!

If the only point you're trying to make RO is that no one should be forced to espouse another's religion then I'll agree to that. Otherwise the rest of your argument has been destroyed by your own sources. Notice: I never one cursed at you, called you names, etc. I just dismantled your weak argument like I usually do.

QFT

"What's happening: A substitute teacher claimed that Carver Elementary School in San Diego was indoctrinating students into Islam, and that a teacher's aide led Muslim children in prayer. An investigation failed to substantiate the claims, but the allegations have thrust Carver into a nationwide debate over prayer in schools." (from the SignOnSanDiego source)

This is still going on? I'll give a 1 point I agree with RO Kimchi on and that is that no one should be forced to espouse another's religious beliefs in a public school. However, as the poster above notes in the linked article "an investigation failed to substantiate the claims." Therefor the point is moot and dead. But I will agree with EO RO DK on the point that no one should be forced to accept another's relgious beliefs. However, all children should learn about different religions for the sake of some God damn knowledge on the subject before you run off to bomb their countries, mmkay?
Oh, I agree.

Learn about all of the religions, but don't make anyone do anything they don't want to. It's a bit uncouth, tbh.

But aye, nothing was proven.

Read back - I haven't been the one dispensing the cursing invective.


You're the one whose been mentioning "cursing" in time honoured 'innocence offended' mode ever since a mod asked somebody to lay off. It helps distract from the lies, distortions and half-truths you dispense, while at the same time being a transparent childish attempt to curry favour.

Its so far not proven that anybody has been "exposed to religon" in the manner suggested by the OP. It has been shown that allegations were made against the school were made which were investigated and found to be untrue. There is no mention anywhere that the school is offering a halal menu.

I don't know how you all managed to miss it. He actually has an argument...why should students be forced to espouse religious beliefs in class, just because those beliefs aren't Christian?

Evidently you missed the bit where it comes up that has nothing to do with Carver elementary, and is an allegation against an unamed school in a right wing editorial by an unknown author....hence the venom at laughing boy there.

I called them on the phone.

I don't believe you. If you go to whitepages.com, and look up that number, you will see it is listed as 'unlisted or unavailable'. Why would a public official have an unlisted number?

This disproves your claim that students were indoctrinated into Islam:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/islam.htm

The Snopes site was written in response to this article:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25997

Since the anonymous author of Remote Observer's editorial obviously accepted the previous story as true without checking the facts, I am hesitant to accept the rest of his or her editorial as factual without corroborating information.

And now a quote from someone intelligent:

Another parent, Tony Peregrino, whose son is not in the Arabic program, said he's OK with the Muslim students praying. What he cares about, he said, is that teachers are doing their job, and his son's education is not affected.

I'm lovin the shirts off the site.
http://www.thoseshirts.com/forecast.html

This disproves your claim that students were indoctrinated into Islam:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/islam.htm

The Snopes site was written in response to this article:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25997

Since the anonymous author of Remote Observer's editorial obviously accepted the previous story as true without checking the facts, I am hesitant to accept the rest of his or her editorial as factual without corroborating information.
And once again, life is more complicated than it seems.
I'm lovin the shirts off the site.
http://www.thoseshirts.com/forecast.html

Urrgh.

I'm starting to like my school.... we have pork (don't really like it though) and we have peanut butter a lot. If you have allergies, they'll give you something else, or you can bring your lunch. The rest of us shouldn't have to go peanut butterless... :p Should we get rid of the cheese and the milk for the lactose intolerent?

Actually, as someone who's lactose intolerant -- no. The results of me ingesting a milk product are painful and inconvenient (read cramps, gas and loose bowels) but not deadly. There are, however, some people who are so allergic to peanuts that they can die from something as stupid as inhaling the dust from a peanut bag.... http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-allergy/DS00710

Mine has bacon every morning that we have a hot breakfast, which is probably a few times a week. We have ham for lunch a lot, and we have pork chops probably a couple times a month..... and we're supposed to be a "poor" school...

Are you positive it's not turkey bacon? ;)

Actually, as someone who's lactose intolerant -- no. The results of me ingesting a milk product are painful and inconvenient (read cramps, gas and loose bowels) but not deadly. There are, however, some people who are so allergic to peanuts that they can die from something as stupid as inhaling the dust from a peanut bag.... http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/peanut-allergy/DS00710

Lactose intolerance also can produce prodigious flatulence, which is inconvenient to those around you.

I don't believe you. If you go to whitepages.com, and look up that number, you will see it is listed as 'unlisted or unavailable'. Why would a public official have an unlisted number?

This disproves your claim that students were indoctrinated into Islam:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/islam.htm

The Snopes site was written in response to this article:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25997

Since the anonymous author of Remote Observer's editorial obviously accepted the previous story as true without checking the facts, I am hesitant to accept the rest of his or her editorial as factual without corroborating information.

And now a quote from someone intelligent:

Well grabbed Sir.

Lactose intolerance also can produce prodigious flatulence, which is inconvenient to those around you.

Yes, but girls don't....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JisgLhWghRQ

oh wait.

So uh, how long is this thread gonna go with RO making absurd claims he has no way of backing up and ignoring people calling him on it?

I don't believe you. If you go to whitepages.com, and look up that number, you will see it is listed as 'unlisted or unavailable'. Why would a public official have an unlisted number?


This disproves your whitepages claim.
http://www.sandi.net/area_superintendents/area3/index.html#contact

I don't believe you. If you go to whitepages.com, and look up that number, you will see it is listed as 'unlisted or unavailable'. Why would a public official have an unlisted number?
because that might be 1) a direct line to his/her office and not his/her secretary (which would be listed.)
or
2) it might be a home number which could be requested to be unlisted or at least ID blocked.

but...

did anyone who said they would call actually did call?

So uh, how long is this thread gonna go with RO making absurd claims he has no way of backing up and ignoring people calling him on it?

Still haven't disproven the Supreme Court decision, have you...

because that might be 1) a direct line to his/her office and not his/her secretary (which would be listed.)
or
2) it might be a home number which could be requested to be unlisted or at least ID blocked.

but...

did anyone who said they would call actually did call?

See post 160. And I called.

This disproves your whitepages claim.
http://www.sandi.net/area_superintendents/area3/index.html#contact

It does indeed ring into the superintendent's office. His secretary is nice. You can google the number and it'll come up for him also. So it's not just RO and his cronies having a laugh.

This disproves your whitepages claim.
http://www.sandi.net/area_superintendents/area3/index.html#contact

Carver Elementary doesn't appear to be on that list...

See post 160. And I called.

then I shal retreat since obviously you don't need or want anyone's assistance. ;)

Still haven't disproven the Supreme Court decision, have you...

That's 'cause that supreme court decision doesn't mean what you think it means...

So uh, how long is this thread gonna go with RO making absurd claims he has no way of backing up and ignoring people calling him on it?


Until he gets bored. Were this a more widely documented event, he'd have run for the hills by now as it is.

Imagine if every time something came up about crime, corruption, religon or food that involved Jews (regardless of their nation - or indeed their actual involvemment in a lot of the events) somebody came out with this kind of thread....Yet should a muslim not have pork shoved down his gullet with a descrated koran, we have some muck-spreader out willfully distorting the facts to make it look as if hes being give a free ride, preferential treatment....

It does indeed ring into the superintendent's office. His secretary is nice. You can google the number and it'll come up for him also. So it's not just RO and his cronies having a laugh.

I'm going to call and tell her that you are talking about her on a message board. :p

Maybe we can get her to make an NS account to see what all the fuss is about.

I believe you are looking for Stormfront.

Also, what does 9/11 have to do with learning about other cultures? Yes, I know the Muslims deserve to burn in bacon grease, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from them. Know thy enemy.

How nice.

I might point out that Al Quaeda are not representative of Islam as a whole, just as the IRA were not representative of every Irish Republican.

because that might be 1) a direct line to his/her office and not his/her secretary (which would be listed.)
or
2) it might be a home number which could be requested to be unlisted or at least ID blocked.

but...

did anyone who said they would call actually did call?

I was thinking it was the first, but I was petty enough to make RO jump through my evidence hoop. :p

I'm not somewhere I can make a long distance call. Ideally, we should all make the call, with different questions that clarify exactly why there is no pork on the menu. My theory would be that the concerns of Muslim students would be one reason, but not the only reason.

I was thinking it was the first, but I was petty enough to make RO jump through my evidence hoop. :p

I'm not somewhere I can make a long distance call. Ideally, we should all make the call, with different questions that clarify exactly why there is no pork on the menu. My theory would be that the concerns of Muslim students would be one reason, but not the only reason.

I think it's more to the fact that Pork needs to be completely cooked. Unlike beef which can be rare.

so it's more of a health safety issue and not religious.

the closest I can remember was "Pork and Beans" or "Beanie Weenies" I think they were called. But that was more Pork flavoring and not actual 'Pork'.

It's hardly racism.

We shouldn't have to be forced to learn a religion we don't believe in.

What, would you like your kids to be forced to be Baptists, and be baptized at public school? I think not.

It's not indoctrination, it's called "empathy". You know, putting you in the other guys shoes. So you get a better understanding of their life.

I will admit, making them recite prayers may be a bit extreme, but the over all idea of placing children into the shoes of others so they can, oh I don't know, get a better idea of what it is like to be in said person's place doesn't seem like a bad idea at all. Could give them a whole different perspective, and question the indoctrination of *some* of their parents(As it does happen).

But meh, that's downright rational.

How nice.

I might point out that Al Quaeda are not representative of Islam as a whole, just as the IRA were not representative of every Irish Republican.

Sure they are.

Al Queada=Brown people.
Muslims=Brown people.

Hence, due to very sound logic

Muslims=Al Quaeda.

Perfectly sound logic.:rolleyes:

Carver Elementary doesn't appear to be on that list...

Carver seems to be in Area 4, which does not have a superintendant. It is possible that Rich Cansdale is acting as superintendant for Carver. So, if he is the super, and if RO called him, and if he said what RO said he did, and if he explicitly ruled out anyother reason, RO may have a point. That's a lot of ifs.

so it's more of a health safety issue and not religious.


True.

Carver seems to be in Area 4, which does not have a superintendant. It is possible that Rich Cansdale is acting as superintendant for Carver. So, if he is the super, and if RO called him, and if he said what RO said he did, and if he explicitly ruled out anyother reason, RO may have a point. That's a lot of ifs.

So basically, RO wants us to take with full confidence the "Because I said so" defense.

Perfectly legit. Works in courts all the time.


True.

Indeed.

How nice.

I might point out that Al Quaeda are not representative of Islam as a whole, just as the IRA were not representative of every Irish Republican.
Quite so.

Let me repeat it.
That's a nice cherry, where's the tree? Did you chop it down and burn it so only you can have a cherry?

I don't think I understand this euphemism/analogy...

Are you positive it's not turkey bacon? ;)

Pretty sure.... tastes like pork bacon.... and it was that time I saw the package it came in....

I don't think I understand this euphemism/analogy...

Cherry picking examples, and ignoring the larger argument, I would guess.

How nice.

I might point out that Al Quaeda are not representative of Islam as a whole, just as the IRA were not representative of every Irish Republican.

*sarcasm*


Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay late, apparently.

Meh. I think this is just some sort of a retarded religious sensitivity training.

Im in ur skools, lernin ur muzlim.Reedin ur keranz

http://i13.tinypic.com/6b0qjpj.jpg

:D. I have made a lolmuslim picture! All hail my picture creation skills!

http://i13.tinypic.com/6b0qjpj.jpg

:D. I have made a lolmuslim picture! All hail my picture creation skills!
*makes a Somali Lolcat*

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2746/somalilolcatvn5.jpg

Do you know what this means?

http://i7.tinypic.com/6exuwj8.jpg

Maybe I should stop posting pictures before this thread gets closed...

Meh. I think this is just some sort of a retarded religious sensitivity training.

That's how it looked to me, too. At least, before the whole topic became a contest of anti-racist chest-thumping. :p I guess the rule should be: only criticise religions whose adherents are, on average, lighter of skin-tone than you. I guess that limits me to the Mormons and the Scientologists, and maybe the Lutherans. :p Who are all wrong, by the way. ;)

Still haven't disproven the Supreme Court decision, have you...

Why would I disprove something I've never contended was incorrect? The rest of your argument is absolute bulllshit and you know it.

Yet another pic!
http://i17.tinypic.com/4p04awk.gif

Yet another pic!
http://i17.tinypic.com/4p04awk.gif

I don't get it. :(

I woke up at 8am yesterday and it is now 9:20am. I've been drinking mocha coffee all night (whilst listening to nine inch nails and Rammstein to boot!) so my pictures are either odd, funny or a bit lame due to tiredness.

EDIT: Though I am proud of my 'lolmuslim' picture.

Classic Nodinia argument there - never bother with disproving the facts.

Didn't someone disprove most of those "facts" the last time you brought them up Deep - I mean Eve - I mean Remote Observer?

And when another religion has "eating pork" in it's tennet we might have a problem.

So far, it's only prudent to not serve what a portion of the school has a problem with.

The schools I worked in in Denver had a non-pork option for Jewish or Muslim students on days they were serving things that contained pork. An outright ban seems excessive.

Not to butt in to a convo in progress, but...

Where the hell did y'all go to school, if you were getting pork for lunch?

At my school, the closest we ever might have got to pork was hotdogs, and I highly doubt there was any real meat of any kind involved in those. We got grilled cheese alternating with meat nuggets. Once a month maybe some "pizza", comprised of bread dough with spaghetti sauce and cheese on it.

I know I sure didn't see a pork chop on my lunch tray, not in 12 years of public school, and it sure wasn't anything to do with Muslims in my district. It was for the same reason I never saw shrimp or caviar on that tray, either.

First of all,lunches have gotten a little better (I remember a petition from the students when I was in high school asking them to reduce the amount of grease ON the food). As for the pork some schools occasionally serve things like pigs in a blanket or pancakes with sausage links these days. As I mentioned earlier the schools I've worked in would simply put a note on the menu that day (usually a picture of a pig) that the regular lunch included pork and they offered a non pork option.

[hijack]

The difference in the case of peanuts is that a person with a peanut allergy can have a serious reaction from simply eating food that was prepared using utensils that have contacted peanuts. A lactose-intolerant person, on the other hand, needs to consume fairly significant amounts of dairy to experience effects. It's pretty easy to just not put cheese on some portions of food; it's much harder to prepare some foods with peanuts while keeping peanut dust and peanut residue completely contained and away from other utensils and foods in the same school kitchen.

This is why schools in Denver, when serving peanut butter and jelly, have been using those "Uncrustables". They come already made, wrapped and sealed in plastic. There is no danger of the peanut butter coming into contact with other food or utensils. The only danger I can see with those is someone ripping one open to expose the peanut butter (the sandwitch itself is sealed together, kinda like a PB and J pastery made of wonder bread) andrubbing it in the face of a alergic student.

Go back and read the links. It's not wrong to say that because a school district is forcing Islam on you that the Supreme Court says that you have one (of several) outs - the one I favor is homeschooling.

What's wrong is your claim that the school district in question is "forcing" Islam on anybody.

So uh, how long is this thread gonna go with RO making absurd claims he has no way of backing up and ignoring people calling him on it?

Are you familiar with his earlier sock puppets?

I agree. You know I can't stand your arguments, RO, but they have their place here. And I'm not about to council, as Nodinia has, that you go kill yourself...nor am I from first post on, just swear myself blue and describe how much I hate you. (because I don't)

It's really pathetic. And frankly...it's starting to make your arguments look good in comparison.

One of those...'you know it's REALLY bad when...' situations.
Please give me a break. Should we flash back to your wonderfully contstrained contacts with Steph or Eut, and/or others?

RO has been seriously owned here for posting an OP-ED from a right wing source and as per usual is getting his butt kicked. I find most the responses mildly amusing to say the least. So chill. :p

EDIT: BTW, this thread just appears to be another Muslim bashing thread by the Muslim bashing DK/RO. Has Muslim bashing just reached the passe phase?

What about Asians? I suspect that's going to be the new 'enemy'...huge and outrageous fears of cultural loss due to economic power and immigration...and I say 'Asians' to purposely blanket-label, because you know that's what is done...it won't just be Chinese, or Japanese...it will be all 'dem Asians'. That's my bet.

I wonder how long it will take us to get sick of DK's 'Asian bashing' threads when Muslim-bashing becomes passe...

The schools I worked in in Denver had a non-pork option for Jewish or Muslim students on days they were serving things that contained pork. An outright ban seems excessive.

As was said before, Pork can be a bit dangerous if undercooked. With beef, not so much an issue, but with pork it is very, very, very not good some of the things you can get. So really, it could even be moreso a health concern more than anything else(As it is sometimes difficult to ensure that everything is fully cooked completely).

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club... That's nice, but it's OLD news.


Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places. Because of fear mongers like you saying that the Muslims are going to kill us all so people are afraid of pissing them off. But free time means you can do whatever.


The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, That's not right...

and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys. If it's Arabic class then it would mainly be for muslims correct?

If they tried to do it for every class there is a thing called "Segreation" that is illegal in this country.


Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts. OLD RUMORS THAT CANNOT BE PROVEN ARE EXCITING!!!

Fail

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=268874251390676

You refference an editorial piece that does not even provide its OWN sources? nice

Wait are these classes that teach Arabic? Therefore basicly ONLY muslims would want to be in them?

Because only French people want to take French class… :rolleyes:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html



But what's this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club...



Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).

Good thing we have this, in the recent Supreme Court decision on Morse v. Frederick:

Oh noes kids are learning about Islam and Muslims are being allowed to pray even after 9/11:eek: quick, to the bomb shelters! :rolleyes:

Because only French people want to take French class… :rolleyes: France is not a religious group. It is a country.

Would it not be expected that the MAJORITY of the people studying arab would have some sort of Arab or muslim background?

France is not a religious group. It is a country.

Would it not be expected that the MAJORITY of the people studying arab would have some sort of Arab or muslim background?

My high school taught Hebrew. Just about everyone who took the classes were Jewish, but there were a few non-Jews who got in on it, too. I could probably have landed a cush job as a contract administrator with the Defense Department if I'd taken Hebrew rather than Spanish - maybe I made the wrong decision! :p

France is not a religious group. It is a country.

Would it not be expected that the MAJORITY of the people studying arab would have some sort of Arab or muslim background?

1. It really doesn't matter all that much. Countries have a culture of their own. Religious groups have a culture of their own.

2. Not really… unless if by "majority" you mean something close to 51%… Do people who take Eastern Religions all Buddhist, Hindu, or Taoist? Are people studying math all mathematicians?

Do you know what this means?

http://i7.tinypic.com/6exuwj8.jpg

Maybe I should stop posting pictures before this thread gets closed...

Hey, that's from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit", when Daffy Duck (Warner Brothers) was piano dueling with Donald Duck (Disney).

:D

You refference an editorial piece that does not even provide its OWN sources? nice

Please don't tell me you're surprised.

Oh please. I know this is based on racism, you know this is based on racism, everyone here knows you are a fucking racist and hate Muslims/Middle Eastern people. I've seen glass cloudier than this topic.


Let me repeat it.
That's a nice cherry, where's the tree? Did you chop it down and burn it so only you can have a cherry?

No, this is not based on racism; it's based on the religious double standard being pushed by the news media that yells "Separation of Church and State!" if a Judeo-Christian prays on school grounds, but encourages schools to teach students to be Muslims. In the news media's eyes, freedom of religion is bad if that religion is Judeo-Christianity, but good if it is Islam.

It's hardly racism.

We shouldn't have to be forced to learn a religion we don't believe in.

What, would you like your kids to be forced to be Baptists, and be baptized at public school? I think not.

Agreed. :)

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/13610170/detail.html



But what's this?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

The school system had to be forced to allow students to have a Bible study club...



Apparently the establishment clause only applies to the practice of Judeo-Christian rituals in public places.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.

Seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required, even after 9/11, to "become Muslims" for two full weeks as part of California's world history curriculum. This included reciting the Muslim profession of faith — "Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger" — and chanting "Praise be to Allah" in response to teacher prompts.

Interestingly, the 9th Circuit Court said that it's legal for the school system to force your children to profess some other faith (even if you're an atheist).

Good thing we have this, in the recent Supreme Court decision on Morse v. Frederick:

This is exactly the point I was trying to make above in my response to The pantless hero. Our news media and government are biased AGAINST Judeo-Christianity and in FAVOR of Islam. They WANT our school children to become Muslims, but will not so much as allow the NAME of "Jesus Christ" to be even SPOKEN on school grounds, except as a cuss-word.

Hey, that's from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit", when Daffy Duck (Warner Brothers) was piano dueling with Donald Duck (Disney).

:D

...Which was a more intelligent debate than any presented on this thread.

No, this is not based on racism; it's based on the religious double standard being pushed by the news media that yells "Separation of Church and State!" if a Judeo-Christian prays on school grounds, but encourages schools to teach students to be Muslims. In the news media's eyes, freedom of religion is bad if that religion is Judeo-Christianity, but good if it is Islam.
And you base this grand consperacy upon what body of evidence?

This is exactly the point I was trying to make above in my response to The pantless hero. Our news media and government are biased AGAINST Judeo-Christianity and in FAVOR of Islam. They WANT our school children to become Muslims, but will not so much as allow the NAME of "Jesus Christ" to be even SPOKEN on school grounds, except as a cuss-word.
Right... they are SO biased that Christmas is a Federal holiday. They are SO biased that the airwaves are filled with Easter and Christmas specials. They are SO biased that there are many, many TV programs with Christian religious slants to them. They are SO biased that Christian Church services are often broadcast on TV and over the radio.

Yup, obviously biased here. Matter of fact I heard that the government is going to start tossing Christians to the lions again and the media is going to film it.

Hey, that's from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit", when Daffy Duck (Warner Brothers) was piano dueling with Donald Duck (Disney).

:D

Good spot. That was the best image of the scene I could find at short notice.

...Which was a more intelligent debate than any presented on this thread.

We live to please :D .

No, this is not based on racism; it's based on the religious double standard being pushed by the news media that yells "Separation of Church and State!" if a Judeo-Christian prays on school grounds, but encourages schools to teach students to be Muslims. In the news media's eyes, freedom of religion is bad if that religion is Judeo-Christianity, but good if it is Islam.



Agreed. :)



This is exactly the point I was trying to make above in my response to The pantless hero. Our news media and government are biased AGAINST Judeo-Christianity and in FAVOR of Islam. They WANT our school children to become Muslims, but will not so much as allow the NAME of "Jesus Christ" to be even SPOKEN on school grounds, except as a cuss-word.


They aren't forcing Islam on anyone. No one is forced to pray. Pork isn't banned (at least for religous reasons) and the food on offer is not Halal. Try reading the thread....that all came up in the first 2-3 pages.

I do have new information to add, so I don't think this is a grave dig.

The school cafeteria has banned pork and other foods that conflict with the Islamic diet, and segregates classes for girls (Arabic classes) so they don't offend Muslim parents by mixing girls and boys.
RO claims that SDUSD banned pork from the school due to Muslims, and he claims that he called the SDUSD to check.

He is full of swamp gas as this shows:

Dear Mr. ,

Thank you for your email below, and the chance to set the record
straight.

The rumor you have heard that the district has 'banned' pork from the
menu is not accurate, nor is it accurate to say that the lack of pork
items on our menus is to accommodate the request of a specific group.

School food service programs, in general, respond to the needs of the
communities in which they are located. Some schools/school districts
may include regional specialties on their menus. The schools in
Louisiana, for example, serve gumbo) or celebrate regional holidays. In
Kentucky, as another example, there is always a special Derby Day menu.

Foods that students are familiar with are often added and foods that
students are unfamiliar with or that are poorly accepted are removed
from the menus.

Here in San Diego Unified, pork products were taken off the menu several
years ago - at least ten - because they were simply not well-accepted.
It's possible that some of the lack of acceptance may be due to
religious backgrounds in our diverse community but we were not asked or
pressured to remove pork products for that reason. It just became
obvious that pork products didn't meet the needs of the school
community.

Our students are offered a variety of items and sides - including a
salad bar daily - and we pilot a number of unique items. Several of
schools are responding favorably to the serving of sushi and we'll be
test-driving Asian-style rice bowls this fall. We did experiment with a
curry-style dish in schools that serve a high number of Somali students,
but it was not well-received and subsequently taken off the menu.

Mashed potatoes with sauerkraut on the side was a common dish for our
Food Planning Services supervisor when she worked in the Midwest, but we
both agree that would likely not go over well here.

I very much appreciate the opportunity to have presented you with
accurate information regarding our school lunch menu. We are extremely
proud of our Food Services program. The Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine awarded our department its highest score in
California and the second highest in the US. This national honor
recognizes the district for being at the forefront of health promotion,
providing salad bars in every elementary school and offering students a
choice of vegetarian courses every day.

Please feel free to contact me if you have further questions.

Respectfully,

Ursula Kroemer
Director of Communications
San Diego Unified School District
4100 Normal St., #2145
San Diego, CA 92103
O: (619) 725-5578
www.sandi.net


Nope, doesn't look like pork was banned due to Muslim pressure, just because the kids wouldn't eat it.

I've seen glass cloudier than this topic.

...

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/486450/2/istockphoto_486450_frosted_glass_texture.jpg

Christian - 81.1% - HELP, HELP I AM BEING OPPRESSED!!!!!!!
Religions other than Christianity - 3.9%
Atheist/agnostic - 15.0%

Reedin ur keranz

Kleanin my pheetz.

Christian - 81.1% - HELP, HELP I AM BEING OPPRESSED!!!!!!!
Religions other than Christianity - 3.9%
Atheist/agnostic - 15.0%

Where the heck is this that we have 15 percent?

Where the heck is this that we have 15 percent?

I find it difficult to believe that we've gained that much ground.

Kleanin my pheetz.

Praizin ur Allah?
Followin ur Muhammad?
Wate'in for ur Qiyāmah?
Prayin ur Salah?
Pligramin ur Meka?

No religion has any place within public school walls.

Praizin ur Allah?
Followin ur Muhammad?
Wate'in for ur Qiyāmah?
Prayin ur Salah?
Pligramin ur Meka?

I haz a cleen shoe fetizh...nd snow.

Offnote: Praizin ur Allah. Sounds very german. >.<

I haz a cleen shoe fetizh...nd snow.

Offnote: Praizin ur Allah. Sounds very german. >.<

I think it is time for the pic again:
http://i17.tinypic.com/6g1e2hg.jpg

Sidenote: Is that sig from FMA Luporum?

I do have new information to add, so I don't think this is a grave dig.


RO claims that SDUSD banned pork from the school due to Muslims, and he claims that he called the SDUSD to check.

He is full of swamp gas as this shows:



Nope, doesn't look like pork was banned due to Muslim pressure, just because the kids wouldn't eat it.


Well done Sir.

Sidenote: Is that sig from FMA Luporum?

Aye. :D

And you base this grand consperacy upon what body of evidence?
Ermm... the... protocols of the Elders of Zion?

Wait, erm... the Da Vinci Code?
Yup, obviously biased here. Matter of fact I heard that the government is going to start tossing Christians to the lions again and the media is going to film it.
IIRC they're setting up a whole YouTube channel for it. I totally can't wait for it.

"And tonight, we have... UNARMED CHRISTIAN VS. ANGRY LION - CLASH... OF THE TITANS!"
*intense growling, followed by something akin to a squeal*
"ARGH! NOT MY LEG! AAAAAAAARGH! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
*super roaring etc. and general cheering from the crowd, who are entirely comprised of evil Wiccas, Buddhists, Muslims, Taoists, Agnostics and indeed Athiests, because Judeo-Christians are banned from seeing the show*
"Aaaaand this one's over folks! That simply leaves 84.999999999999999998% of the population as Christian - Only around 250 million left to go!"

I do have new information to add, so I don't think this is a grave dig.

RO claims that SDUSD banned pork from the school due to Muslims, and he claims that he called the SDUSD to check.

He is full of swamp gas as this shows:

Nope, doesn't look like pork was banned due to Muslim pressure, just because the kids wouldn't eat it.
Remote Observer aka Deep Kimchi is a Muslim hating asshat and has once again been owned. Good work Nervun!! :)