NationStates Jolt Archive

So, where do you see France (and most of Western Europe, for that matter) in about ten to twenty years, with its growing muslim population? France has about a 7.4% (about one in fourteen) muslim population, and growing rapidly. In the 1940's, France only had several hundred muslims living in it.

Now, (not true of all French muslims) many followers of Islam are demanding Sharia and reforms in the French government, as they view themselves as "oppressed".

Personally, I think that France's and the UK's government may eventually realize how significant extremism is in their country, as there have recently been various attacks in Scotland, and either try and halt muslim immigration or drown middle-eastern immigrants in seas of beauracratic paper, or face the eventual illimanation of their culture. It reminds me of the story with the man crossing the Sahara, and he had a camel that asked to put his nose in this tent, and eventually the man was out in the freezing desert. France originally wanted mass muslim population to sway greater oil trade with the middle east, and to create a multi-cultural society, but now they're being bossed around in there own nation...

Your stance on the issue?

Oh, and lets try to keep French jokes minimal...

I think the new French government is a step backward. I remember hearing of Sarkozy's plan to offer a cash incentive for new immigrants to leave France. How insulting is that? Not much of an invitation to integrate into French culture, is it.

Now, (not true of all French muslims) many followers of Islam are demanding Sharia and reforms in the French government, as they view themselves as "oppressed".

Your homework for today:

- Provide evidence for the above assertion.
- Define "many".
- Define "reforms".
- Define "followers of Islam".

Dismissed.

I see no problem with Muslim immigration to Europe and I'm surprised anyone does...

hell only thing thats changed is the Irish don't have that stereotype now

France has only as big of a Muslim problem as they are making of it. They have a silly insistence on assimilation that has already fragmented her once-massive empire. In the meantime, they are faced with routine discrimination, hurded into banlieues with no hope of economic or social progress. One hears echos of the situation amongst American blacks before the war. So yeah, in that sense, they have a problem. Now if they actually recognized an accepted a Muslim minority, they would not eliminate all of their problems, but they'd make great headway. And it'd be much easier to fight terrorism if their potential supporters have loyalty to France.

I think the new French government is a step backward. I remember hearing of Sarkozy's plan to offer a cash incentive for new immigrants to leave France. How insulting is that? Not much of an invitation to integrate into French culture, is it.

Maybe they don't want integration anymore.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of muslims countries that welcome muslim immigrants...

Keeping Muslims out to cut terrorism is like keeping out any other group to prevent terrorism. Not all terrorism is carried out by Muslim extremists. It could be carried out by any extremists or criminals demanding a reward. For example, in Quebec in 1970, the FLQ kidnapped a British diplomat to further their goal of separating from Canada, clearly not religiously based.

Restricting immigration based on religion or ethnicity to prevent terrorism is nothing more than racism.

Restricting immigration based on religion or ethnicity to prevent terrorism is nothing more than racism.

That's true. But the world is getting all racist again.

These are the waters.

Maybe they don't want integration anymore.

And it's not like there aren't plenty of muslims countries that welcome muslim immigrants...

Yes, but those countries ALREADY submit to Allah ...

They have a silly insistence on assimilation that has already fragmented her once-massive empire. In the meantime, they are faced with routine discrimination, hurded into banlieues with no hope of economic or social progress.
Actually, the assimilation policy has worked quite well. There's French-schooled Imams and other Muslim theologians and much less radical anti-Western teachings there than in neighbouring countries (especially Britain).

The Banlieues are a result of bad economic policies. It looks to me as though race doesn't feature much in it (though since I've never been to one and have most of my knowledge from stories about rappers and some pretty decent movies). It's just that in an economy in which low-skill jobs are scarce, immigrants from countries with bad education systems are going to be more likely to end up unemployed. And once you're unemployed, you end up in public housing projects. And your kids then grow up in bad neighbourhoods with no prospects for the future, leaving them frustrated and more likely to feel alienated by society as a whole.

Keeping Muslims out to cut terrorism is like keeping out any other group to prevent terrorism. Not all terrorism is carried out by Muslim extremists. It could be carried out by any extremists or criminals demanding a reward. For example, in Quebec in 1970, the FLQ kidnapped a British diplomat to further their goal of separating from Canada, clearly not religiously based.

Actually, prior to the late 1990s, nearly all international terrorism was done for political reasons. Even though many of the older ones were Arab, they were motivated more by nationalism or money, and not religion. They loved this world too much to blow themselves up, like the modern Islamofascist.

What I'd like to know is why some people believe that a relatively small minority population of Muslims constitutes some larger threat/conspiracy, and how they could possibly overthrow an overwhelming majority. Is it just because Muslims are (unfortunately) an easy scapegoat nowadays, even though many couldn't give two shits about terrorist ideology (or, you, in all likelyhood), and just want to make a living?

...Say...I just remembered that this kind of thinking has had a long and prestigious history. In fact, it called America home back in the 1920s, and later in the '50s.

...What was it called? I think it was the "Red Scare", but I could be mistaken...Had a cousin called "McCarthyism"...?

What I'd like to know is why some people believe that a relatively small minority population of Muslims constitutes some larger threat/conspiracy, and how they could possibly overthrow an overwhelming majority. Is it just because Muslims are (unfortunately) an easy scapegoat nowadays, even though many couldn't give two shits about terrorist ideology (or, you, in all likelyhood), and just want to make a living?

...Say...I just remembered that this kind of thinking has had a long and prestigious history. In fact, it called America home back in the 1920s, and later in the '50s.

...What was it called? I think it was the "Red Scare", but I could be mistaken...

reading Arthur Miller's work?

Actually, the assimilation policy has worked quite well. There's French-schooled Imams and other Muslim theologians and much less radical anti-Western teachings there than in neighbouring countries (especially Britain).

The Banlieues are a result of bad economic policies. It looks to me as though race doesn't feature much in it (though since I've never been to one and have most of my knowledge from stories about rappers and some pretty decent movies). It's just that in an economy in which low-skill jobs are scarce, immigrants from countries with bad education systems are going to be more likely to end up unemployed. And once you're unemployed, you end up in public housing projects. And your kids then grow up in bad neighbourhoods with no prospects for the future, leaving them frustrated and more likely to feel alienated by society as a whole.

I agree. France's economic policies are far worse than any racial/ethnic/class problems they have right now. But there is a problem when Muslim immigrants are so often at the low end of the economic spectrum, often staying there.
I've also never been to a banlieue. But I've gotten off at a Metro stop by one. It was called "Stalingrad", and it sent chills down my spine. From what I could see, it wasn't pretty and manicured like the rest of Paris.

All of Europe is facing a demographic crisis. Unlike East Asia, which has maintained it's demographic stability.

You don't need Miller to know about and regret that era and hope it's not occurring again (too bad it is)

Yes, but those countries ALREADY submit to Allah ...

That's funny, you see, because the Quran expressly forbids "making" countries submit to Allah. Ah well. I'll include that under "things you would know if you were a Muslim".

So, where do you see France (and most of Western Europe, for that matter) in about ten to twenty years, with its growing muslim population? France has about a 7.4% (about one in fourteen) muslim population, and growing rapidly. In the 1940's, France only had several hundred muslims living in it.

Now, (not true of all French muslims) many followers of Islam are demanding Sharia and reforms in the French government, as they view themselves as "oppressed".

Personally, I think that France's and the UK's government may eventually realize how significant extremism is in their country, as there have recently been various attacks in Scotland, and either try and halt muslim immigration or drown middle-eastern immigrants in seas of beauracratic paper, or face the eventual illimanation of their culture. It reminds me of the story with the man crossing the Sahara, and he had a camel that asked to put his nose in this tent, and eventually the man was out in the freezing desert. France originally wanted mass muslim population to sway greater oil trade with the middle east, and to create a multi-cultural society, but now they're being bossed around in there own nation...

Your stance on the issue?

Oh, and lets try to keep French jokes minimal...

What France really needs to do is conjure up Charles Martel.

Barring that, or a re-evangelization of the nation, I don't have much hope for France, or most of Western Europe for that matter. Eventual civil war seems to be where things are heading.

Multiculturalism: it's not just the law, it's a bad idea.

I'm guessing what France, or Europe in general, will do with the "problem" of Muslims what they did with the "problem" of a non-Christian religious minority group the last time. Put them on leaky boats, make them wear special clothing, put them in special camps and execute them by the millions.

I could be wrong, but given how popular these ideas seem to so many people already, I wouldn't be surprised.

Along with moral character and intellectual ability, cultural compatibility must also be a factor for allowing anyone to immigrate into an area. This will allow for the best cultivation of people and allow for a more valuable, richer, more peaceful nation. Unfortunately, governments today seem to be fixated not on the above characteristics as choices for immigrants but rather family reuniting, asylum and diversity lottery. What a load that is.

What France really needs to do is conjure up Charles Martel.

Barring that, or a re-evangelization of the nation, I don't have much hope for France, or most of Western Europe for that matter. Eventual civil war seems to be where things are heading.

Multiculturalism: it's not just the law, it's a bad idea.

So you're perfectly fine with a religion killing dissenters, as long as that religion is your own.

Hey, everyone, Mitanni is an extremist Muslim! He even misinterprets the Quran to booth!

I'm guessing what France, or Europe in general, will do with the "problem" of Muslims what they did with the "problem" of a non-Christian religious minority group the last time. Put them on leaky boats, make them wear special clothing, put them in special camps and execute them by the millions.

I could be wrong, but given how popular these ideas seem to so many people already, I wouldn't be surprised.

Maybe with their soldiers wearing armbands with a weird-shaped cross?

That's funny, you see, because the Quran expressly forbids "making" countries submit to Allah. Ah well. I'll include that under "things you would know if you were a Muslim".

Maybe you should point that out to muslims then, instead of lecturing the rest of us about what you thing the koran says.

France has only as big of a Muslim problem as they are making of it. They have a silly insistence on assimilation that has already fragmented her once-massive empire. In the meantime, they are faced with routine discrimination, hurded into banlieues with no hope of economic or social progress. One hears echos of the situation amongst American blacks before the war. So yeah, in that sense, they have a problem. Now if they actually recognized an accepted a Muslim minority, they would not eliminate all of their problems, but they'd make great headway. And it'd be much easier to fight terrorism if their potential supporters have loyalty to France.

The French Empire fell just as the British, Belgian, Portugese, Spanish, and just about every other colonial empire did. Subject people's found the concept of nationalism and threw their oppressors off out of national pride. The so-called "integration" of the French Empire can't be said to be anymore than the Commonwealth. It just so happens that large amounts of British descendents occupy most of the Commonwealth nations that actually support Britain in international affairs so they were more succesful, and any recognized minority defeats the point of a democracy. Minority rights are just as bad as having majority rights. Also, generally they seem to have loyalty to their religion before their country (I can't blame them, I respect their devotion), but nonetheless that is a threat to the French national identity.

On the issue of those wanting Sharia law, is that not as outrageous as ultra-fundamentalist Christians wanting the Bible to be the law of the United States (I must admit that as a Christian I sometimes would like that, but the ideals of the nation and all free nations are above that. Thus, I see where the French are coming from in their fear of being culturally overrun by a large immigrant population, I mean just think how you'd feel if your culture and traditions were being threatened (such as the immigration issues in the US, I respect you illegal aliens, but please come in legally. It'd stop a lot of problems) So, one must argue that as a nation based on national identity (in this case being French) do they have a right to take measures to protect that national identity? Perhaps, perhaps not, but I wouldn't like people threatening to instate their religious laws upon me.

Maybe you should point that out to muslims then, instead of lecturing the rest of us about what you thing the koran says.

1- It's what I KNOW the Quran says. I studied. You didn't. I know things. You don't. That's the difference between us.

2- Unlike most Christians, most Muslims do not proselytize.

reading Arthur Miller's work?

Not recently, no. That was all me, believe it or not.

But yeah...Where's Miller when we need 'em...?

1- It's what I KNOW the Quran says. I studied. You didn't. I know things. You don't. That's the difference between us.

I'm not wasting my time studying a bunch of troglodyte mumbo-jumbo. So you can skip the whole 'I know more than you do' crap right now.

What I do know it that I have seen many muslims getting on the telly and saying that britain should be an islamic country. So to get back to my point, you should go and tell them that they have the koran all wrong. Not me.

2- Unlike most Christians, most Muslims do not proselytize.

Also rubbish. Maybe in bizzaro world where you live they don't, but on earth one, they fucking proselytize all the time.

Another 3b1| /\/\05|3/\/\z rantfest by New Mitanni and Lacadaemon, supplemented by Sadisco Room's minstrel show performance.

Yaaawn.

I'm happily ignorant of the book I made up my mind about without reading or knowing.

What I do know it that I have seen people claiming to be Muslims on TV that I already decided to believe are representatives to one billion people.

I believe those guys that knock on my door and claim I'll go to Hell if I disagree with them are Muslims, not Christians.

Thanks for the text-revising practice.

Another 3b1| /\/\05|3/\/\z rantfest by New Mitanni and Lacadaemon, supplemented by Sadisco Room's minstrel show performance.

Yaaawn.

Oh, grow up. It's just an ideology, and a particularly sick one at that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing it.

Thanks for the text-revising practice.

Don't put words in my mouth. And stop telling me what I should believe about the koran. Go tell some muslims, because your ideas are obviously completely contrary to theirs.

Oh, grow up. It's just an ideology, and a particularly sick one at that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing it.

*Dr. Cox from Scrubs*

Oh, my God, Tricia, it's an ideology you know jack shit about, already, proudly, might I add, announced you know jack shit about it, and you still believe you get a say about it by calling it sick because you're just soooo scared of the evil Muslims that you're willing to believe anything just so long as the threat your government made up goes away and you get to sleep quietly without knowing anything new. Newsflash: Christians killed a lot of people in England. Another newsflash: There IS plenty wrong with criticizing a religion you are gloating to the world you don't know anything about. However, do keep on ranting about how these people you don't know are evil and how you just feel so unsafe and scared and boo-hoo, and oh, man the terrorists just won and you became living proof. Puh-leeeze tell me more about this ideology you don't know anything about, I am SO interested in hearing it.

Oh, grow up. It's just an ideology, and a particularly sick one at that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing it.

Being told to grow up by a bitter-ass atheist who's jumped on the Flavor of the Month, Islamaphobia.

There's hypocrisy for you.

*Dr. Cox from Scrubs*

Oh, my God, Tricia, it's an ideology you know jack shit about, already, proudly, might I add, announced you know jack shit about it, and you still believe you get a say about it by calling it sick because you're just soooo scared of the evil Muslims that you're willing to believe anything just so long as the threat your government made up goes away and you get to sleep quietly without knowing anything new. Newsflash: Christians killed a lot of people in England. Another newsflash: There IS plenty wrong with criticizing a religion you are gloating to the world you don't know anything about. However, do keep on ranting about how these people you don't know are evil and how you just feel so unsafe and scared and boo-hoo, and oh, man the terrorists just won and you became living proof. Puh-leeeze tell me more about this ideology you don't know anything about, I am SO interested in hearing it.

He claims to be an athiest but he's really yanking off to the Flavor of the Month along with buddies Deep Kimchi, New Mitanni and Sadisco Room.

Don't put words in my mouth. And stop telling me what I should believe about the koran. Go tell some muslims, because your ideas are obviously completely contrary to theirs.

I'm not. You don't know anything about Islam and don't want to. As for "go tell some muslims", I don't need to. I have plenty of Muslim friends, they don't proselytize.

He claims to be an athiest but he's really yanking off to the Flavor of the Month along with buddies Deep Kimchi, New Mitanni and Sadisco Room.

Did I do a good Cox impression?

Did I do a good Cox impression?

Pretty damn good actually. But you're still no Superman.

Being told to grow up by a bitter-ass atheist who's jumped on the Flavor of the Month, Islamaphobia.

There's hypocrisy for you.

At least I don't criticize people for not embracing 'god'.

(I'm curious, why do you capitalize islamaphobia? - not that it is a real word anyway)

Pretty damn good actually. But you're still no Superman.

:D

He claims to be an athiest but he's really yanking off to the Flavor of the Month along with buddies Deep Kimchi, New Mitanni and Sadisco Room.

No, I don't claim.

I am an atheist.

*Dr. Cox from Scrubs*

Oh, my God, Tricia, it's an ideology you know jack shit about, already, proudly, might I add, announced you know jack shit about it, and you still believe you get a say about it by calling it sick because you're just soooo scared of the evil Muslims that you're willing to believe anything just so long as the threat your government made up goes away and you get to sleep quietly without knowing anything new. Newsflash: Christians killed a lot of people in England. Another newsflash: There IS plenty wrong with criticizing a religion you are gloating to the world you don't know anything about. However, do keep on ranting about how these people you don't know are evil and how you just feel so unsafe and scared and boo-hoo, and oh, man the terrorists just won and you became living proof. Puh-leeeze tell me more about this ideology you don't know anything about, I am SO interested in hearing it.

Hard though it is to believe for the clearly intellectually challenged, it is actually possible to discern the behavior of a group without wasting your time reading their fucking manual.

Islam = bad.

At least I don't criticize people for not embracing 'god'.

*Still on Cox mode*

Noooo, you DO criticize people for embracing their god as they see it because they scare you so much. Which is funny, because there was also a LOT of crap done in the name of (atheist) communism. And capitalism. And any other ideology, but I don't see you cowering in fear and ranting about each and every last one of them and, oh, my God, you're also quite incoherent, you know, besides shaking in fear about the Muslim boogeyman, would you like me to hold you so you can sleep better?

Hard though it is to believe for the clearly intellectually challenged, it is actually possible to discern the behavior of a group without wasting your time reading their fucking manual.

Islam = bad.

Logics 101, you can't determine the behavior of 1.5 billion people by the examples given you by 19. Someone that claims to be an Atheist should at least have a better grasp of logics before attempting to believe the entire reality is based on science.

Noooo, you DO criticize people for embracing their god as they see it because they scare you so much. Which is funny, because there was also a LOT of crap done in the name of (atheist) communism. And capitalism. And any other ideology, but I don't see you cowering in fear and ranting about each and every last one of them and, oh, my God, you're also quite incoherent, you know, besides shaking in fear about the Muslim boogeyman, would you like me to hold you so you can sleep better?

Actually, I have plenty to say about the things you are complaining that I don't complain about. And I have so said, and I will continue to.

But the topic is islam.

And of course you are welcome to hold me when I sleep. But only if you are taller than me and cute.

Actually, I have plenty to say about the things you are complaining that I don't complain about. And I have so said, and I will continue to.

But the topic is islam.

And of course you are welcome to hold me when I sleep. But only if you are taller than me and cute.

Then by all means, start ranting on and on about how ALL ideologies EVER are evil and scare you so much, because, if you have anything remotely resembling coherency in your mind, it's what you'll do, since crap has been done in the name of EACH AND EVERY ONE, including but not limited to Atheism, Capitalism, geez-Louise, even my own belief system, occultism. And I'm asking if you would like me to hold you for you to sleep because you just seem so scared and intent on not knowing anything about the topic you so proficuously spout rubbish about that you're either scared or willing to talk about any and all subjects you have no knowledge of, in which case, please tell me about quantum physics so I can go back in time and alert myself not to have this conversation with you, of course, the problem is we would keep on having this same conversation over and over again due to a time loop, but that's okay, because we ARE doing it right now anyways without the loop, and you'll keep on ranting about the religion you already admitted you don't know, and I'll keep pointing out the obvious mistakes you're making and on and on. Puh-leeease tell me that's not what you intend, because otherwise I WILL be bored to death.

/Dr. Cox

Going to bed now.

"fear about the Muslim boogeyman"...

Maybe it's because Islam is the only religion (yes, the only religion)whose fanatics are willing to blow themselves up, along with innocent civilians, so as to selfishly enjoy their 72 virgins in paradise.

Maybe it's because even slightly conservative Muslims are unable to integrate into modern Western secular society.

Maybe it's because you can stereotype the majority Muslim population's opinions on everything from homosexuality, to women's rights, to foreign policy very accurately.

Maybe it's because Muslims can't take any criticism of their religion without becoming enraged. You can't even handle cartoon criticism.

Maybe it's because there are plans to build mega-Mosques in London, Rome and Cologne, but if you were to bring a Bible into Saudi Arabia you would get arrested (never mind the lack of Churches).

Maybe it's because if you open any newspaper any day, you will find an article on how some group of Muslims are committing violence or using inflammatory, belligerent language somewhere in the world.

Maybe it's because countries like Iran host conferences debating whether the holocaust ever happened.

These are just a fraction of reasons I can think of for being disdainful of increasing Muslim influence in Europe. Trust me - a lot of Europeans would agree.

And no, being against Muslim immigration is not "racist", because Islam is not a race.

Hard though it is to believe for the clearly intellectually challenged, it is actually possible to discern the behavior of a group without wasting your time reading their fucking manual.

Islam = bad.

Yeah, why "waste your time" with little things like increasing your knowledge? Learning is something only "intellectually challenged" people need to do. The rest of us are omniscient and know that Islam is bad. And black people are bad. And Jews are bad. Immigrants are bad. Drugs are bad.

Honestly, you need to take your head out of your asshole, because for us intellectually challenged, the only thing we hear from you is bigoted bullshit.

Since I am French, I shall give my opinion on the matter :

I really, profoundly and deeply do NOT care at all. And neither should you.

Honestly, you need to take your head out of your asshole, because for us intellectually challenged, the only thing we hear from you is bigoted bullshit.

It's not even the equal opportunity bigoted bullshit from a racist or a bitter-ass atheist either. It's bandwagonning onto The Flavor of the Month. He's always saved his most vitriolic rants for Islam alone.

Since I am French, I shall give my opinion on the matter :

I really, profoundly and deeply do NOT care at all. And neither should you.

Sounds reasonable...well now that thats settled who wants a pint?

He claims to be an athiest but he's really yanking off to the Flavor of the Month along with buddies Deep Kimchi, New Mitanni and Sadisco Room.

Islamaphobia, as you put it, holds an acrid and highly over-salted taste. I much prefer Raspberry, and it being July, they are auspiciously in season. Not that I would claim infidels as my comrades in any case.

Yeah, why "waste your time" with little things like increasing your knowledge? Learning is something only "intellectually challenged" people need to do. The rest of us are omniscient and know that Islam is bad. And black people are bad. And Jews are bad. Immigrants are bad. Drugs are bad.

Honestly, you need to take your head out of your asshole, because for us intellectually challenged, the only thing we hear from you is bigoted bullshit.

I suppose you have read Mein Kampf then?

Sounds reasonable...well now that thats settled who wants a pint?

Hooray for common sense! Now lets go get shitfaced!

I suppose you have read Mein Kampf then?

Yes.

Not that that changes anything. If I hadn't, you'd take it as justification in typical tu quoque fallacy fashion.

Yes.


And it enriched your life having read it?

And it enriched your life having read it?

It provided insight and thus was educational. But again, only us unwashed pro-terrorist masses need education, this doesn't apply to you.

It provided insight and thus was educational. But again, only us unwashed pro-terrorist masses need education, this doesn't apply to you.

Are you seriously saying that you cannot argue against Nazism without having read Mein Kampf? Because it really sounds like you do. Say, if I haven't read Mein Kampf, should I remain neutral on Nazism? If a neo-Nazi gang is beating up my Jew neighbor, should I study Mein Kampf and other Nazi propaganda before (possibly) intervening?

Or is it perhaps possible that you are attacking a poster based on his posting history, and not what he has said in this particular thread? ;)

Are you seriously saying that you cannot argue against Nazism without having read Mein Kampf? Because it really sounds like you do. Say, if I haven't read Mein Kampf, should I remain neutral on Nazism? If a neo-Nazi gang is beating up my Jew neighbor, should I study Mein Kampf and other Nazi propaganda before (possibly) intervening?

Or is it perhaps possible that you are attacking a poster based on his posting history, and not what he has said in this particular thread? ;)

Lacadaemon aka Crackadaemon was the one who was implying you had to read Mein Kampf before you're allowed to discuss or do anything about Nazism.

Lacadaemon aka Crackadaemon was the one who was implying you had to read Mein Kampf before you're allowed to discuss or do anything about Nazism.

Only because Heikoku said straight out that you need to read the Koran before you can have an opinion on the actions of Muslims, which is absurd.

Lacadaemon aka Crackadaemon was the one who was implying you had to read Mein Kampf before you're allowed to discuss or do anything about Nazism.

I'd prefer it if you didn't do that with my screen name. Thank you. Continue to stalk me on the interwebs by all means, but please desist with the crackadaemon rubbish. It's just rude.

Are you seriously saying that you cannot argue against Nazism without having read Mein Kampf? Because it really sounds like you do.

No, I'm not. I'm answering a question.


Or is it perhaps possible that you are attacking a poster based on his posting history, and not what he has said in this particular thread? ;)

I don't know his Posting History (tm). I'm "attacking" his statements that suggest, simultaneously, that other posters are "intellectually challenged," while he himself can't "waste time" learning. About the subject matter at hand, that is.

And comparing Islam with Nazism is rather disgusting, particularly when the one making the comparison is behaving more like a nazi himself. (Hating a people based on religion. Although I'm sure you can tell me why Jew-hating is bad, but Muslim-hating is hunky dorey.) ;)

Although I'm sure you can tell me why Jew-hating is bad, but Muslim-hating is hunky dorey.) ;)

If it wasn't for the smiley at the end I'd almost think that this was an attack on my person...

Anyhow, replacing the Koran with Mein Kampf clearly shows why saying that you must read them in order to criticize their followers is a fallacy. Not that I think it should be necessary, but apparently some people had trouble seeing it. It does not mean that you think the Koran is in content comparable to Mein Kampf. Not that I know what Lacadaemon thinks about this, but that does in no way invalidate this argument.

And comparing Islam with Nazism is rather disgusting, particularly when the one making the comparison is behaving more like a nazi himself. (Hating a people based on religion. Although I'm sure you can tell me why Jew-hating is bad, but Muslim-hating is hunky dorey.) ;)

There is nothing wrong about not liking any given religion.

And no, being against Muslim immigration is not "racist", because Islam is not a race.

Technically you're correct, but you'd still be a bigot though.

France originally wanted mass muslim population to sway greater oil trade with the middle east, and to create a multi-cultural society, but now they're being bossed around in there own nation...


I think the French for that is "Le bollocks". Their muslim population is the legacy of being an empire. Secondly - and this is very important - France does not practice or encourage "multi-culturalism". I suggest you do your homework before ranting (possibly on a number of levels).

AHHHHH the Islamo-Nazi liberal communists are coming!

Anyhow, replacing the Koran with Mein Kampf clearly shows why saying that you must read them in order to criticize their followers is a fallacy.

Hey you're right, it's a fallacy. A strawman fallacy, because I never said that.

It does not mean that you think the Koran is in content comparable to Mein Kampf. Not that I know what Lacadaemon thinks about this

It's clear to me he thinks they're comparable in content. Even though he's not read either one.

There is nothing wrong about not liking any given religion.

In fact, a lot of people on this forum make a point of letting everyone know that they HATE all religions equally...

In fact, a lot of people on this forum make a point of letting everyone know that they HATE all religions equally...

As oppossed to the "blame Islam" faction....who must have just wondered who they might be righteously bigoted at pre the September 11 attacks......

As oppossed to the "blame Islam" faction....who must have just wondered who they might be righteously bigoted at pre the September 11 attacks......

Hey, I was on to Islam in 1988...

Nobody gives a fuck about what any holy books say. It's only important what the followers of the religions do.

Now, (not true of all French muslims) many followers of Islam are demanding Sharia and reforms in the French government, as they view themselves as "oppressed".

Odd, I lived in France for 5 months (Feb until June of this year) and I never noticed this sort of thing. All the Muslims I met were as happy as any other Frenchman with France (which isn't very, but the French will constantly bitch regardless. A nation of "râleurs" as they say)

or face the eventual illimanation of their culture.

Umm... wow.

but now they're being bossed around in there own nation...

Absolutely no such thing is occurring. Where do you get this crap?

Since I am French, I shall give my opinion on the matter :

I really, profoundly and deeply do NOT care at all. And neither should you.

Merci, enfant de la patrie! :D

Only because Heikoku said straight out that you need to read the Koran before you can have an opinion on the actions of Muslims, which is absurd.

No, I didn't. I pointed out the fact that Lancadaemon is ignorant. And that painting an entire group with the same brush without knowing or WANTING TO KNOW any damn thing about it is a demonstration of gross stupidity. But that's neither a here nor a there.

Snip.

Funny how these things or other equally bad ones can be easily said about any and all ideology, yet you don't hide under your bed screaming when you think about them.

Funny how these things or other equally bad ones can be easily said about any and all ideology, yet you don't hide under your bed screaming when you think about them.

It's all about bandwagonning with them. If Islam wasn't the Flavor of the Month to hate and bitch about, he'd be doing it with whatever was.

No, I didn't. I pointed out the fact that Lancadaemon is ignorant. And that painting an entire group with the same brush without knowing or WANTING TO KNOW any damn thing about it is a demonstration of gross stupidity. But that's neither a here nor a there.

Not only does Crackadaemon willfully demonstrates such ignorance, he's also eager to fan the flames and escalate the Islamaphobia. Such as with this brilliant piece of Muslim Minstrelsy that The Sadisco Room has yet to top:

Fatwa on Michael Moore (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=368468)

I'm guessing what France, or Europe in general, will do with the "problem" of Muslims what they did with the "problem" of a non-Christian religious minority group the last time. Put them on leaky boats, make them wear special clothing, put them in special camps and execute them by the millions.

I could be wrong, but given how popular these ideas seem to so many people already, I wouldn't be surprised.

Or just follow America and wipe them out slowly but surely with a military, and keep them in little camps with no prospect for a future under their new leaders. Whilst systematically destroying their culture.

Not only does Crackadaemon willfully demonstrates such ignorance, he's also eager to fan the flames and escalate the Islamaphobia. Such as with this brilliant piece of Muslim Minstrelsy that The Sadisco Room has yet to top:

Fatwa on Michael Moore (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=368468)

pho·bi·a
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

Aside from the fact theres no real word such as islamophobia, as it's not an irrational fear.

The post you link to proves that such "islamophobia" against certain kinds of muslims, is clearly not irrational, only their thinking and mentality is.

I'd call it common sense myself.

"Problem"?

It's starting to sound like "The Final Solution to the Muslim Problem".

I apologize for the cheap Godwin's.

pho·bi·a
a persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it.

Aside from the fact theres no real word such as islamophobia, as it's not an irrational fear.

The post you link to proves that such "islamophobia" against certain kinds of muslims, is clearly not irrational, only their thinking and mentality is.

I'd call it common sense myself.

Aside from the fact that the OP of that brilliant thread is an avowed athiest who put on an Islamic blackface in it to perpetuate the stereotype of all Muslims as violent zealous jihadis? And from that last post before it was locked you bought into it hook, line and sinker.

- Define "followers of Islam".


Oh yes thats right, the only true followers of Islam are the ones that follows the apologetics "interpretation" of Islam.

Oh yes thats right, the only true followers of Islam are the ones that follows the apologetics "interpretation" of Islam.

Considering that there are 1.5 BILLION Muslims that don't practice or support terrorism and are, otherwise, completely normal people? Pretty much, yes. What else do you need me to teach you?

Hey, I was on to Islam in 1988...

Hey, everyone! RO is gloating because he was a bigot before it became fashionable!

Considering that there are 1.5 BILLION Muslims that don't practice or support terrorism and are, otherwise, completely normal people? Pretty much, yes. What else do you need me to teach you?

Firstly evidence? Because everything I have seen is to the contrary to that. And no poll has EVER been done to that scale, EVER.

Secondly, no a follower of Islam =/= only someone who subscribes to the mainstream version.

Considering that there are 1.5 BILLION Muslims that don't practice or support terrorism and are, otherwise, completely normal people? Pretty much, yes. What else do you need me to teach you?

Preaching to another subscriber of the "Real Muslims Kill People" newsletter? Good luck.

Secondly, no a follower of Islam =/= only someone who subscribes to the mainstream version.

In my experience, though, not even those who are on the mainstream version would claim not to be a follower of Islam.

Firstly evidence? Because everything I have seen is to the contrary to that. And no poll has EVER been done to that scale, EVER.

Then provide evidence of what you've "seen". As for MY part...

http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm

http://muslimsforpeaceonline.com/

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Secondly, no a follower of Islam =/= only someone who subscribes to the mainstream version.

So you agree that the mainstream version of Islam isn't the radical one? Good, one less thing I'll have to teach you.

Preaching to another subscriber of the "Real Muslims Kill People" newsletter? Good luck.

There's a difference between "preaching" and "playing with like a cat plays with a mouse". ;)

Then provide evidence of what you've "seen".


You first, you made the claim.


So you agree that the mainstream version of Islam isn't the radical one? Good, one less thing I'll have to teach you.

You don't need to "teach" me anything. The mainstream version of Islam isn't terrorist, but it makes typical fundamentalist Christianity look like buddhism. (at least not in the west)

edit:fixed

You first, you made the claim.



You don't need to "teach" me anything. The mainstream version of Islam isn't terrorist, but it makes typical fundamentalist Christianity look like buddhism. (at least in the middle east)

Edited, check my earlier post.

Also, yes I do. The mainstream version not only isn't terrorist, it tends to be more liberal than Christian Republicans are. Even if they weren't, you just agreed with me that they aren't violent. Furthermore, 85% of the world's Muslim population are OUTSIDE the Middle East. In, yes, developed countries. That don't apply fundamentalist laws or anything of the sort.

Edited.

Also, yes I do. The mainstream version ISN'T terrorist, and, for that matter, it tends to be more liberal than Christian Republicans are. Furthermore, 85% of the world's Muslim population are OUTSIDE the Middle East.

Read the edit.

Read the edit.

I edited my answer. Anyways, I provided evidence, so the ball's on your court now.

Then provide evidence of what you've "seen". As for MY part...


I'd rather debunk your crap first.


http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm

http://muslimsforpeaceonline.com/


Both clearly biased and unreliable, mention nothing about "1.5 billion muslims".


http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm


Again nothing about this 1.5 billion figure. The opinions of a selection of muslims is meaningless.

Again nothing about this 1.5 billion figure. The opinions of a selection of muslims is meaningless.

Unless it happens to be those of a selection that comfortably fits your view of the group as a whole- in this case Muslims as violent, zealous jihadis right?

Unless it happens to be those of a selection that comfortably fits your view of the group as a whole- in this case Muslims as violent, zealous jihadis right?

Whats with the strawman?

The opinions of a selection of muslims is meaningless.

Good to know you admit YOU can't base YOUR opinions on YOUR selection of Muslims either, sport. However, MY OTHER evidence is that, Islam being an 1.5 BILLION people religion, if they were anywhere near as bad as you claim, the world would be in a MUCH worse state. You just invalidated YOUR evidence along with mine, genius, but I retain the edge over you based on that simple fact.

I win.

You first, you made the claim.
You don't need to "teach" me anything. The mainstream version of Islam isn't terrorist, but it makes typical fundamentalist Christianity look like buddhism. (at least not in the west)

edit:fixed


Would that the mainstream christianity that thought it was ok to bomb fuck out of north vietnam and fund death squads in Latin America, or the orthodox one that massacred people in sbrenica? Just as a matter of interest.

Buddhists aren't nessecarilly all cuddly and hippy like either, I might add.

Good to know you admit YOU can't base YOUR opinions on YOUR selection of Muslims either, sport. However, MY OTHER evidence is that, Islam being an 1.5 BILLION people religion, if they were anywhere near as bad as you claim, the world would be in a MUCH worse state. You just invalidated YOUR evidence along with mine, genius, but I retain the edge over you based on that simple fact.

I win.

I havn't even made any claim about Islam and people are just bundling me with their strawman. I will break down my point:

Islam, like Christianity once was (and still is to a lesser degree) is a religion very very easy to abuse, due to it's violent nature (being written in a time of war)

Islam IS, making the world a worse place (well at least a lot of asia)

Not all Muslims are bad but just because they don't follow one particular interpretation doesn't negate them from being a follower of islam (the problem I had with one of your posts)

Edit: and i never based my opinion on a bunch of quotes from Muslims, where did you get that idea?

Would that the mainstream christianity that thought it was ok to bomb fuck out of north vietnam and fund death squads in Latin America, or the orthodox one that massacred people in sbrenica? Just as a matter of interest.

Buddhists aren't nessecarilly all cuddly and hippy like either, I might add.

The old ignore Islam and divert the thread to Christianity trick, can't beat it.

Christianity is irellavent.

Islam IS, making the world a worse place (well at least a lot of asia)


It seems that Malaysia's doing okay though. Who knows, maybe in a century or so, maybe Islam would probably be accounted for some good in the modern world.

Edited, check my earlier post.

Also, yes I do. The mainstream version not only isn't terrorist, it tends to be more liberal than Christian Republicans are. Even if they weren't, you just agreed with me that they aren't violent. Furthermore, 85% of the world's Muslim population are OUTSIDE the Middle East. In, yes, developed countries. That don't apply fundamentalist laws or anything of the sort.

Most Muslims live in developing countries (aside from those residing in First World countries and Malaysia). Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Somalia, Albania, the Central Asian republics, et. al. can hardly be described as developed.

I havn't even made any claim about Islam and people are just bundling me with their strawman. I will break down my point:

Islam, like Christianity once was (and still is to a lesser degree) is a religion very very easy to abuse, due to it's violent nature (being written in a time of war)

Islam IS, making the world a worse place (well at least a lot of asia)

Not all Muslims are bad but just because they don't follow one particular interpretation doesn't negate them from being a follower of islam (the problem I had with one of your posts)

The point remains that if I can't use peaceful Muslims as an example of Islam being peaceful, you can't use violent ones as the opposite example. Christianity is just as easy to abuse as Islam, and, like Islam, the most conservative people among them DO cause a lot of damage. The same goes for each and every religion. Abortion clinic bombings, death squads, Pinochet... You name it.

The point remains that if I can't use peaceful Muslims as an example of Islam being peaceful, you can't use violent ones as the opposite example.

I never did.


Christianity is just as easy to abuse as Islam, and, like Islam, the most conservative people among them DO cause a lot of damage.

Currently, not nearly as much as Islam.


The same goes for each and every religion. Abortion clinic bombings, death squads, Pinochet... You name it.

Yeah yeah yeah, i'm aware of this conveniant idea that all religions are exactly alike. I disagree with this, but it's hard to argue about something so subjective. However, today Muslim is the main problem but it is somehow barred from criticism. Although other religions don't get this same treatment.

However, today Muslim is the main problem but it is somehow barred from criticism. Although other religions don't get this same treatment.

Barred from criticism? What have you, Fox News and EVERY right wing Christian commentator been doing for the past SIX YEARS but criticizing Islam without knowing jack shit about it?

My country was turned into a DICTATORSHIP for 20 years in the name of Capitalism. Nothing ever happened to it in the name of Islam.

My country was turned into a DICTATORSHIP for 20 years in the name of Capitalism. Nothing ever happened to it in the name of Islam.

Whew, 32 for mine, though lately...

Abortion clinic bombings, death squads, Pinochet... You name it.

I fail to see what the latter two have to do with religion.

My country was turned into a DICTATORSHIP for 20 years in the name of Capitalism.

Which country?

All of Europe is facing a demographic crisis. Unlike East Asia, which has maintained it's demographic stability.

This is true. Without any minorities to feel oppressed, you don't have the racially-motivated aggression.

Barred from criticism? What have you, Fox News and EVERY right wing Christian commentator been doing for the past SIX YEARS but criticizing Islam without knowing jack shit about it?


No one cares about fox news. I don't watch or have access to fox news so don't know anything about it.


My country was turned into a DICTATORSHIP for 20 years in the name of Capitalism. Nothing ever happened to it in the name of Islam.

What country is that?

Which country?

Brazil. 64-84

Brazil. 64-84

Capitalism is not an idealology it's simply an ecenomic model. The military dictatorship was not turned into a dictatorship to make them "more capitalist", even though it would make them less.

Capitalism is not an idealology it's simply an ecenomic model. The military dictatorship was not turned into a dictatorship to make them "more capitalist", even though it would make them less.

1- Radical Muslims don't attack people "to make them more Islamic" either.

2- They ousted João Goulart for being "too close to Socialism", so yes they DID make it into a dictatorship to make the country more capitalist.

Brazil. 64-84

The Brazilian military junta was hardly capitalist.

2- They ousted João Goulart for being "too close to Socialism", so yes they DID make it into a dictatorship to make the country more capitalist.

They wanted to make it less socialist, but not necessarily more capitalist.

The Brazilian military junta was hardly capitalist.

The terrorists are hardly Muslim. The junta did do so IN THE NAME of capitalism, just like the terrorists do what they do IN THE NAME of Islam.

They wanted to make it less socialist, but not necessarily more capitalist.

Brazil was never even CLOSE to socialism.

1- Radical Muslims don't attack people "to make them more Islamic" either.


No but to defeat the enemy of Islam. Sharia law does a good enough job of making a country more islamic.


2- They ousted João Goulart for being "too close to Socialism", so yes they DID make it into a dictatorship to make the country more capitalist.

Still, a dictatorship is not based on capitalism (capitalist dictatorships are very rare).

The junta did do so IN THE NAME of capitalism

No, they did it in the name of anticommunism.

The terrorists are hardly Muslim. The junta did do so IN THE NAME of capitalism, just like the terrorists do what they do IN THE NAME of Islam.

No it's not the same at all. There is no such thing as a capitalist terrorist. Terrorism might occur through hate of the current government, but thats "in the name of hate for the current regime", and not in the name of capitalism. Capitalism has no social policy, so can't directly influence somone into killing unlike a religion can.

No but to defeat the enemy of Islam. Sharia law does a good enough job of making a country more islamic.



Still, a dictatorship is not based on capitalism (capitalist dictatorships are very rare).

The coup was still staged in the NAME of capitalism. Do I get to claim that capitalism is "easily abused"?

The coup was still staged in the NAME of capitalism.

No, it wasn't. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12860040&postcount=119)

The coup was still staged in the NAME of capitalism. Do I get to claim that capitalism is "easily abused"?

As has been said it wasn't, it was in the name of hate. Capitalism has nothing to abuse, there is no social policy.

As has been said it wasn't, it was in the name of hate. Capitalism has nothing to abuse, there is no social policy.

Actually it wasn't in the name of hate, it was in the name of American interests. Said interests turned my country into a dictatorship. I don't accuse Americans of being evil or "easily abused" because of that because I'm a logical person. And I don't accuse Islam of being evil or "easily abused" because of Bin Laden for the same reason.

Furthermore, 85% of the world's Muslim population are OUTSIDE the Middle East. In, yes, developed countries. That don't apply fundamentalist laws or anything of the sort.

~150 million in India
~160 million in Pakistan
~130 million in Bangadesh
~200 million in Indonesia
~30 million in Afghanistan

NONE of these are developed countries. 4 of these countries have islamic laws as basis of governance. Indian muslims have a seperate civil code (islamic basis) apart from that of other Indians.

The French Empire fell just as the British, Belgian, Portugese, Spanish, and just about every other colonial empire did. Subject people's found the concept of nationalism and threw their oppressors off out of national pride. The so-called "integration" of the French Empire can't be said to be anymore than the Commonwealth. It just so happens that large amounts of British descendents occupy most of the Commonwealth nations that actually support Britain in international affairs so they were more succesful, and any recognized minority defeats the point of a democracy. Minority rights are just as bad as having majority rights. Also, generally they seem to have loyalty to their religion before their country (I can't blame them, I respect their devotion), but nonetheless that is a threat to the French national identity.

To some extent, yes. But Britain left their colonials to their day-to-day lives, whereas the French wanted to convert them into French, eventually. This could be seen most in Algeria, which was almost another French province. It's also iinteresting to me that the two most violent separations were under French rule: Algeria and Indochina.

~150 million in India
~160 million in Pakistan
~130 million in Bangadesh
~200 million in Indonesia
~30 million in Afghanistan

NONE of these are developed countries. 4 of these countries have islamic laws as basis of governance. Indian muslims have a seperate civil code (islamic basis) apart from that of other Indians.

Indonesia isn't underdeveloped. Nor is India. I never said Islamic law or any other religion works as a basis of governance. Yet, guess what, Indonesia is a nation with a Muslim majority, one that's fairly developed and separates church and state.

Indonesia isn't underdeveloped. Nor is India. I never said Islamic law or any other religion works as a basis of governance. Yet, guess what, Indonesia is a nation with a Muslim majority, one that's fairly developed and separates church and state.

What's your criteria for development?

Indonesia isn't underdeveloped. Nor is India. I never said Islamic law or any other religion works as a basis of governance. Yet, guess what, Indonesia is a nation with a Muslim majority, one that's fairly developed and separates church and state.

Those countries aren't members of the OCED. You may be surprised, but South Korea wasn't even considered a fully developed nation until a couple years ago.

No it's not the same at all. There is no such thing as a capitalist terrorist. Terrorism might occur through hate of the current government, but thats "in the name of hate for the current regime", and not in the name of capitalism. Capitalism has no social policy, so can't directly influence somone into killing unlike a religion can.

now this is absolute bullshit.

right wing terrorism just airbrushed out of history :mad:

Colombia, Latin America the UVF etc. Terrorists defending the status quo and capital.

and as for Capitalism having no social policy....

Indonesia isn't underdeveloped. Nor is India.

Yes, they are.

now this is absolute bullshit.

right wing terrorism just airbrushed out of history :mad:

Colombia, Latin America the UVF etc. Terrorists defending the status quo and capital.

and as for Capitalism having no social policy....

Most right-wing terrorists are not capitalists. In fact, most don't have a clearly defined position on economics. Most are simply just anticommunist.

Yes, they are.

Yes in most areas, but not so much in the central administrative areas and high international traffic areas.

I'd say the term underdeveloped is a bit unfair, more likely, they're not equally developed, meaning the gaps between areas with low progress can't match up with certain key areas like I mentioned above.

The old ignore Islam and divert the thread to Christianity trick, can't beat it.

Christianity is irellavent.

In some ways all religon is irrelevant, and in some ways no. However, your urge to blame the worlds ills on Islam ignores the facts. Its not a question of 'diverting', its one of providing context.

Yes in most areas, but not so much in the central administrative areas and high international traffic areas.

I'd say the term underdeveloped is a bit unfair, more likely, they're not equally developed, meaning the gaps between areas with low progress can't match up with certain key areas like I mentioned above.

Good point.

Erm... this thread was started to predict the future of France, not why Brazil had a military coup...

I think the new French government is a step backward. I remember hearing of Sarkozy's plan to offer a cash incentive for new immigrants to leave France. How insulting is that? Not much of an invitation to integrate into French culture, is it.

It's not at all inviting. It's a well phrased "fuck off".

God I love Sarkozy.

It's not at all inviting. It's a well phrased "fuck off".

God I love Sarkozy.
Jennie Lee once said this about Oswald Mosely. It's beautifully relevant to you, too.

"He had a fatal flaw in his character, on overwhelming arrogance and an unshakable conviction that he was born to rule... and so becoming a pathetic imitation Hitler, doomed to political impotence for the rest of his life."

Found that ages ago, been dying to find a post of yours but you didn't post for a while. But tada.

It seems that Malaysia's doing okay though. Who knows, maybe in a century or so, maybe Islam would probably be accounted for some good in the modern world.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/27/asia/AS_GEN_Malaysia_US_Religious_Morality.php

"Religious" Gestapo raids at 2 AM. So much for Malaysia.

It's not at all inviting. It's a well phrased "fuck off".

God I love Sarkozy.

What he said. :D

Jennie Lee once said this about Oswald Mosely. It's beautifully relevant to you, too.

"He had a fatal flaw in his character, on overwhelming arrogance and an unshakable conviction that he was born to rule... and so becoming a pathetic imitation Hitler, doomed to political impotence for the rest of his life."

Found that ages ago, been dying to find a post of yours but you didn't post for a while. But tada.

Just political? :D

Only because Heikoku said straight out that you need to read the Koran before you can have an opinion on the actions of Muslims, which is absurd.

Yes...It's bit like blaming the crusades, or say situation in Iraq & Palestine to christianity & judaism. :eek:

Because Iraq was invaded by christian nation (Bush is a devout Christian, is he not?) it's the fault of christians, I apparently don't have to know anything about the underlying faith to draw this conclusion. :)

Infact, finally we can bash christianity for all the actions committed by christian minorities or individuals without the need to know anything about the religion! This makes religion bashing so much easier, simplier and more fun than ever before! Let minorities and their actions represent the majority, praise be to this new shining logic!

:p :D

I'm still confused about why all these millions of European white people are so concerned about a tiny fraction of their countries' populations that happen to be made up of brown people.

Help?

I'm still confused about why all these millions of European white people are so concerned about a tiny fraction of their countries' populations that happen to be made up of brown people.

Help?
We're nice.

I'm still confused about why all these millions of European white people are so concerned about a tiny fraction of their countries' populations that happen to be made up of brown people.

Help?
It rather seems to me like some American people are concerned why all those millions of European people aren't concerned enough about a tiny fraction of their countries' population that happens to be made up of brown people.

Actually it wasn't in the name of hate, it was in the name of American interests. Said interests turned my country into a dictatorship. I don't accuse Americans of being evil or "easily abused" because of that because I'm a logical person. And I don't accuse Islam of being evil or "easily abused" because of Bin Laden for the same reason.

And those american interests were almost 100% anti communist. How are you not seeing this!?!?!?

I never said Islam was "evil", but it's extremely easily abused. Unless you want to stick your head in the ground and ignore a third of the globe.

We're nice.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. :)

I can totally understand why Europeans would want to help the newcomers to their countries. That kind of concern makes sense. It's just basic hospitality. I was confused about why so many Europeans seem to be afraid of the brown people.

To be fair, I wonder this a lot about my own country as well.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. :)

I can totally understand why Europeans would want to help the newcomers to their countries. That kind of concern makes sense. It's just basic hospitality. I was confused about why so many Europeans seem to be afraid of the brown people.

To be fair, I wonder this a lot about my own country as well.

Not many europeans are afraid of brown people, they may be afraid of terrorists but thats not the same thing.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. :)

I can totally understand why Europeans would want to help the newcomers to their countries. That kind of concern makes sense. It's just basic hospitality. I was confused about why so many Europeans seem to be afraid of the brown people.

To be fair, I wonder this a lot about my own country as well.
In the olden days, it was thought that black people coloured themselves with Marmite, stolen from the Holy Roman Empire - news spread all over Europe and it wasn't until most people actually saw a black person that this was dispelled as a myth, although it still continues, much in the same was as the Blood Libel does.

This is why some fear them.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/27/asia/AS_GEN_Malaysia_US_Religious_Morality.php

"Religious" Gestapo raids at 2 AM. So much for Malaysia.

Ah, morality bites. Their country, their rules. Which is better though, a raid by an organization controlled by the goverment,... or by an angry mob with white hoods burning crosses in front of your own front lawn? Atleast you could be angry at somebody.

Oh by the by, on you sig, you should really scroll down to see which Christians and Jews,... and the interpretation is a bit off, it should read "patrons" instead of "friends". -_-

Just political? :D
He's a good looking emo lad, he'll doubtless not be running low on female friends with which to copulate. I doubt he'll become impotent in that sense any time soon.

He's a good looking emo lad, he'll doubtless not be running low on female friends with which to copulate. I doubt he'll become impotent in that sense any time soon.

Sore point. People aren't meant to reject me without even having the decency to do it to my face; I mean, really, a blog on myspace? How mature....:rolleyes:

I never said Islam was "evil", but it's extremely easily abused. Unless you want to stick your head in the ground and ignore a third of the globe.

So is America.