NationStates Jolt Archive

Our Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in Our Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Praise God...

I can only say of myself that I am...overwhelmed, ecstatic...and am struggling to hold back tears of joy.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.

How exciting...*cough*

yay now ur religion dosn't have to do stupid things in private they can do it anywere

*flash to tomorrow*

Pope Benedict XVI has called for a Crusade to save the holy land from the evil Muslim oppressors.

*flash to tomorrow*

Pope Benedict XVI has called for a Crusade to save the holy land from the evil Muslim oppressors.

Bush beat him to the punch. :p

Bush beat him to the punch. :p
But now it will officially be a Crusade.

Also, the Pope has called for the cessation of the moves to canonize Pope John Paul II deeming him an "immoral scoundrel trying to destroy the good Churches roots and bring us down into the hands of the infidels."

I'm a bit too young to remember the Latin Mass, and I'm not sure about the mass itself. But I'm glad that the Holy Father is bringing Latin back. We, as Catholics, need a language of worship and theological discourse, and what better language to use than Latin? We should require all priests to have satisfactory skills in Latin, and all church documents should at least have a Latin copy. Eventually, the Church can build a regulatory body for the language, modernize it a bit, and have only Latin Masses (though Homiliies should probably be left in vernaculars).

Did he say Dio?

http://www.nintendorks.com/chris/archives/ronniejamesdio.jpg



...oh wait, it was Deo. Ah, this one's better. :D

I'm a bit too young to remember the Latin Mass, and I'm not sure about the mass itself. But I'm glad that the Holy Father is bringing Latin back. We, as Catholics, need a language of worship and theological discourse, and what better language to use than Latin? We should require all priests to have satisfactory skills in Latin, and all church documents should at least have a Latin copy. Eventually, the Church can build a regulatory body for the language, modernize it a bit, and have only Latin Masses (though Homiliies should probably be left in vernaculars).

It isn't just the fact that it is in Latin, man. I honestly wouldn't care too much if the Tridentine were said in English. That isn't the problem for me. The problem for me is the mass itself. Here (http://www.fisheaters.com/ottavianiintervention.html) is an outline of differences.

He did it?! Damn, I totally thought it was the butler...

The Pope did it. In the dining room. With the candlestick.

He did it?! Damn, I totally thought it was the butler...
Naw, it was Mrs. Peacock in the Study with the Rope.

But now it will officially be a Crusade. Details, details...

Also, the Pope has called for the cessation of the moves to canonize Pope John Paul II deeming him an "immoral scoundrel trying to destroy the good Churches roots and bring us down into the hands of the infidels."

Is this guy trying to alienate their moderate base?

Naw, it was Mrs. Peacock in the Study with the Rope.

I did it, with the hot french maid, in the dining room.

I did it, with the hot french maid, in the dining room.

Ah. That would explain why the table was wet.

It isn't just the fact that it is in Latin, man. I honestly wouldn't care too much if the Tridentine were said in English. That isn't the problem for me. The problem for me is the mass itself. Here (http://www.fisheaters.com/ottavianiintervention.html) is an outline of differences.
I'd be more worried about how going backwards like this is going to undo a lot of the goodwill built up between Catholics and Jews. The pope seems bound and determined to undo a lot of Vatican II and I have to wonder why he thinks that will help the Church today.

I'd be more worried about how going backwards like this is going to undo a lot of the goodwill built up between Catholics and Jews. The pope seems bound and determined to undo a lot of Vatican II and I have to wonder why he thinks that will help the Church today.

In all fairness, he approved the 1962 missal, which takes out the "anti semetic" wording in the liturgy, which, quite frankly, isn't that anti semetic. Even before VII, there was still goodwill between Catholicism and the Jews. In fact, during the Holocaust, it was probably the Catholic Church that had the greatest role in hiding the Jews. Schindler, for example, was a Catholic. A lot of Jews hid out in seminaries, monasteries, and the like.

Is this guy trying to alienate their moderate base?


He was being sarcastic, man.

He was being sarcastic, man.

Oh, sorry. It just fit so well I couldn't tell the difference.

Mea culpa.

I'm sorry...I just find these religious threads to be so strange.

Mea culpa.

Bonus points if you can A) tell me what that means and B) tell me what part of the mass that comes from and C) give me the whole line.

Is this guy trying to alienate their moderate base?
That was sarcasm but you got the point. This Pope is not a forward thinker or a modernist. He is going to try to bring back the old Church, the kind of thing Catholics like Mel Gibson want - a reversal of the Second Vatican Council which brought the Mass to the people.

Bonus points if you can A) tell me what that means and B) tell me what part of the mass that comes from and C) give me the whole line.

A) My fault / my blame (basically "My bad")
B) Don't know
C) Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

That was sarcasm but you got the point. This Pope is not a forward thinker or a modernist. He is going to try to bring back the old Church, the kind of thing Catholics like Mel Gibson want.

Right, I know. It's just so feasible... :D

Quid sub hoc est?

Sum ignavissimus. :p

Right, I know. It's just so feasible... :D
This will be the end of the Catholic Church one way or the other. After nearly 40 years of an accessible Mass and a couple decades of good will brought by John Paul II, this Pope is going to try and do what the conservatives in America want to do, return to some absurd time in the past when everything was hunky-dory because it was the past and children didn't talk back to their parents, and people could buy a candy store for a dollar, and the no good Catholic had any idea what the Liturgy was saying because Latin is a dead language.

A) My fault / my blame (basically "My bad")

"By my fault."

B) Don't know
C) Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

It comes from the Confiteor (I confess) of the Tridentine Mass, which the Holy Father is giving back to us. The whole line is:

Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, beatae Maria semper virgini, beato Michaeli archangelo, beato Ioanni Baptistae, sanctis Apostolis Petro and Paulo, omnibus Sanctis, et tibi, Pater, quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo, et opere...mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxime culpa...etc.

(I confess to God Almighty, to Blessed Mary ever Virgin, Blessed Michael the Archangel, Blessed John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and all the Saints...and you, Father, that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed...through my fault, through my fault, through my most grevious fault...etc."

I'd be more worried about how going backwards like this is going to undo a lot of the goodwill built up between Catholics and Jews. The pope seems bound and determined to undo a lot of Vatican II and I have to wonder why he thinks that will help the Church today.

He's the pope. It's his job to rubbish other people's religion.

"By my fault."

Do the "a's" have macrons over them? If so, it's ablative -> by my fault
If not, it's just nominative and "my fault".

(Can't tell when there's no macron button on the keyboard)

Do the "a's" have macrons over them? If so, it's ablative -> by my fault
If not, it's just nominative and "my fault".

(Can't tell when there's no macron button on the keyboard)

First and foremost, I'd like to point out that the Romans never used macrons. They didn't use punctuation at all.

In the confiteor, it's ablative. Ablative of instrument or means, I think.

Finally, a good excuse to learn Latin.

First and foremost, I'd like to point out that the Romans never used macrons. They didn't use punctuation at all.

It's brought up when one learns Latin... They don't know exact pronunciation (of Classical) either, but they use the macrons in education...

At least I knew the Nominative versus Ablative. :D

In the confiteor, it's ablative. Ablative of instrument or means, I think.

Yep, it's ablative in the full excerpt.

Finally, a good excuse to learn Latin.

*Considers*


Nope. Still not a good reason. Then again though, what do I know? I'm not a Catholic.

I just don't get how anyone could be all giddy with excitement over something like this.

*Considers*


Nope. Still not a good reason. Then again though, what do I know? I'm not a Catholic.

Eh, it doesn't matter much to me if they speak Latin or English or Klingon when doing mass.

But either way, Latin is easy to learn and write.

Finally, a good excuse to learn Latin.
This is a terrible reason to learn Latin. Latin being a cool dead language is an excellent reason to learn Latin.

I just don't get how anyone could be all giddy with excitement over something like this.
The revisionist Catholics that want to do away with the Second Vatican Council - see Mel Gibson.

I too am very excited, but I find your initial statement a bit perplexing. "We are going to have Holy Mass again" as if we hadn't over the past 37 years. Read it through...the ordinary way of praying the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is by the 1970 Missal. Let's not have division over something, especially when this is such a strongly unifying message from the Holy Father.

Praise God indeed. What a wonderful thing...

to do away with the Second Vatican Council - see Mel Gibson.

That's the thing...the whole world seems to be sliding backwards lately...

Our Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in Our Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Praise God...

I can only say of myself that I am...overwhelmed, ecstatic...and am struggling to hold back tears of joy.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.

Holy Father? PLEASE, don't blaspheme God by calling the pope "Holy Father."

"Holy Father" is a term reserved in the scriptures exclusively for GOD the Father, not any pope.

I'm a bit too young to remember the Latin Mass, and I'm not sure about the mass itself. But I'm glad that the Holy Father is bringing Latin back. We, as Catholics, need a language of worship and theological discourse, and what better language to use than Latin? We should require all priests to have satisfactory skills in Latin, and all church documents should at least have a Latin copy. Eventually, the Church can build a regulatory body for the language, modernize it a bit, and have only Latin Masses (though Homiliies should probably be left in vernaculars).

Latin? (*bursts a blood vessel*) LATIN?

Latin, outside of these "theological discourses" and "masses" you speak of, is a DEAD language.

I say, what better language to use than ENGLISH!

The only reason for Latin to be used is to make the person speak/writing/reading/whatever it seem "a little bit better/more holy/closer to 'God'/whatever" than the common laypeople are.

The "lingua franca", nowadays, is ENGLISH!

Our Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in Our Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Praise God...

I can only say of myself that I am...overwhelmed, ecstatic...and am struggling to hold back tears of joy.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.

Amen, alleluia.

I plan to write to my parish and ask to have the real Mass offered again. Thanks be to God I saved some of my old prayer books.

Now if we can just get rid of those hideous, not to mention anachronistic, guitar masses, and those bad John Denver imitations that pass for hymns these days!

The revisionist Catholics that want to do away with the Second Vatican Council - see Mel Gibson.

The only "revisionists" were those behind Vatican II.

Change a few of the prayers to reflect the modern view concerning the Jews (no more charges of deicide, etc.) Otherwise, praise God for reclaiming our traditions and returning to our roots.

The only "revisionists" were those behind Vatican II.

Change a few of the prayers to reflect the modern view concerning the Jews (no more charges of deicide, etc.) Otherwise, praise God for reclaiming our traditions and returning to our roots.
Christianity itself is, if you take it literally, revisionist.

The only "revisionists" were those behind Vatican II.

Change a few of the prayers to reflect the modern view concerning the Jews (no more charges of deicide, etc.) Otherwise, praise God for reclaiming our traditions and returning to our roots.

The Inquisition is part of those roots, no?

Roots are sometimes overrated.

The Inquisition is part of those roots, no?

Roots are sometimes overrated.

Indeed. And, of the Inquisitions, nobody expects the Spanish one!

http://vuodatus-static.web-effect.net/g/9037/172467.jpg

(Yes, I just wanted an excuse to post that.)

Amen, alleluia.

I plan to write to my parish and ask to have the real Mass offered again. Thanks be to God I saved some of my old prayer books.

Now if we can just get rid of those hideous, not to mention anachronistic, guitar masses, and those bad John Denver imitations that pass for hymns these days!

Again, with this "real Mass" stuff. If you haven't read the Motu Proprio, please do. As the Holy Father says clearly, "They are, in fact two usages of the one Roman rite." If you are Roman Catholic, than you understand and respect the authority of the Holy Father. You cannot ignore one half of what is said by that authority. Again, this is a time for celebration of unity, not continued divisiveness.

Finally, a good excuse to learn Latin.

There is only one good reason to learn Latin: so you can figure out what that old pirate is saying in the Asterix comics.

As for the current trend towards conservatism by Catholic leaders, I have only this to say: errare humanum est.

The Inquisition is part of those roots, no?

Roots are sometimes overrated.

:rolleyes:

Nice attempt to equate respect for the Latin Mass with the Inquisition, but nobody's buying it.

The Inquisition was hardly a part of the roots of the Catholic Church. Not to mention being vastly "overrated" as an abusive institution.

In any event, nobody's calling for reinstating within the Church any of the practices imputed to the Inquisition.

Although I would not be averse to, say, putting Bilal Abdullah on a rack or Ayman Zawahiri in an Iron Maiden :D

:rolleyes:

Nice attempt to equate respect for the Latin Mass with the Inquisition, but nobody's buying it.

The Inquisition was hardly a part of the roots of the Catholic Church. Not to mention being vastly "overrated" as an abusive institution.

In any event, nobody's calling for reinstating within the Church any of the practices imputed to the Inquisition.

Although I would not be averse to, say, putting Bilal Abdullah on a rack or Ayman Zawahiri in an Iron Maiden :D

What? I must have failed history, cause I was sure that that was the Catholic Church that did that. No? Hm. Coulda sworn...

Although I would not be averse to, say, putting Bilal Abdullah on a rack or Ayman Zawahiri in an Iron Maiden :D

I was going to make them stand on top of each other blind folded and naked. Also I would have been mocking their gadgets.

I think he was referring to the "roots" as opposed to the sins of persons 1000 years into the faith.

On the other hand I think the comments about torturing the two persons mentioned fly in the face of Matthew 5:38-48

I think he was referring to the "roots" as opposed to the sins of persons 1000 years into the faith.



Yes, I love how people like to cherry-pick moments from their 'golden past'.

Inquisition? Just a blip. Crusades? Just a blip.

Oh, but torture can be fun when it's people you hate, har har.

Yes, I love how people like to cherry-pick moments from their 'golden past'.

Inquisition? Just a blip. Crusades? Just a blip.

Oh, but torture can be fun when it's people you hate, har har.

I think that all persons need to start with themselves when considering judging. There is usually more than enough to keep you busy for the rest of your life. Of course, forums aren't very good at promoting that kind of thing now are they.

I think if we start with the very strong statement in Matthew 5:48, "So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect", each of us will be so busy trying to deal with ourselves we won't have time to judge others. Being "perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect" isn't easy.

The Sermon on the Mount is wonderful...

I don't even understand what the hell this is all about, let alone why it's so wonderful and joyous.

There is only one good reason to learn Latin: so you can figure out what that old pirate is saying in the Asterix comics.

As for the current trend towards conservatism by Catholic leaders, I have only this to say: errare humanum est.

I really need to get an early Asterix comic...

I don't even understand what the hell this is all about, let alone why it's so wonderful and joyous.

I'm with you.

I also don't care. But the whole 'glory to god' and such going on in here is sort of interesting to watch...sort of in the way that watching monkeys flinging poo at each other is somewhat interesting.

I'm with you.

I also don't care. But the whole 'glory to god' and such going on in here is sort of interesting to watch...sort of in the way that watching monkeys flinging poo at each other is somewhat interesting.

Don't forget the masturbation!

I don't even understand what the hell this is all about, let alone why it's so wonderful and joyous.

I think it has something to do with a large wad of sugarless gum. *nod*

I'm with you.

I also don't care. But the whole 'glory to god' and such going on in here is sort of interesting to watch...sort of in the way that watching monkeys flinging poo at each other is somewhat interesting.

Aye. It's a fascinating study of lifeforms with intelligence close to ours but still lesser than our own.

And I had no idea New Mittani was Catholic. Suddenly he strikes me as a Colbert clone in his actions.

I don't even understand what the hell this is all about, let alone why it's so wonderful and joyous.

The Latin Mass has effectively not been performed by the mainstream Catholic Church since Vatican II in 1965. This order permits priests to say the Latin Mass without approval by their bishops. Approvals by bishops were far and few between because many of them were hostile to the Latin Mass, primarily because they became priests during the 1960's when there was a reaction against traditional aspects of Catholicism. This may lead to a revival of the Latin Mass, if not at its levels of the pre-Vatican II era but certainly far more common than it is today.

It's wonderful and joyous if you believe that the Latin Mass was the right way to perform it and that the effects of Vatican II were disastrous for the Church (and some of them really were, IMO), and this is a big deal because it represents the first major change in a major component of Catholic theology in 42 years and a repudiation of the policies of John Paul II and the other leaders of the Vatican II era.

Aye. It's a fascinating study of lifeforms with intelligence close to ours but still lesser than our own.

And I had no idea New Mittani was Catholic. Suddenly he strikes me as a Colbert clone in his actions.

I think you would all very much enjoy Matthew, Chapter 5. Give it a shot!

God bless you and have a good night!

The Latin Mass has effectively not been performed by the mainstream Catholic Church since Vatican II in 1965. This order permits priests to say the Latin Mass without approval by their bishops. Approvals by bishops were far and few between because many of them were hostile to the Latin Mass, primarily because they became priests during the 1960's when there was a reaction against traditional aspects of Catholicism. This may lead to a revival of the Latin Mass, if not at its levels of the pre-Vatican II era but certainly far more common than it is today.

It's wonderful and joyous if you believe that the Latin Mass was the right way to perform it and that the effects of Vatican II were disastrous for the Church (and some of them really were, IMO), and this is a big deal because it represents the first major change in a major component of Catholic theology in 42 years and a repudiation of the policies of John Paul II and the other leaders of the Vatican II era.
Ah.

I think you would all very much enjoy Matthew, Chapter 5. Give it a shot!

God bless you and have a good night!

Heh. The irony of you saying I would enjoy the book of Matthew when that's my name is amusing.

Ah well...at least you're nice, unlike New Mittani. Good night, good sir.

The Latin Mass has effectively not been performed by the mainstream Catholic Church since Vatican II in 1965. This order permits priests to say the Latin Mass without approval by their bishops. Approvals by bishops were far and few between because many of them were hostile to the Latin Mass, primarily because they became priests during the 1960's when there was a reaction against traditional aspects of Catholicism. This may lead to a revival of the Latin Mass, if not at its levels of the pre-Vatican II era but certainly far more common than it is today.

It's wonderful and joyous if you believe that the Latin Mass was the right way to perform it and that the effects of Vatican II were disastrous for the Church (and some of them really were, IMO), and this is a big deal because it represents the first major change in a major component of Catholic theology in 42 years and a repudiation of the policies of John Paul II and the other leaders of the Vatican II era.


But can it prevent tooth decay?

But can it prevent tooth decay?

Hey, have you ever seen a bishop with bad teeth? Except for those monks that ate 5,000 calories per day back in the 17th century...

5 pages and no outraged rant of indignation from IDF about the resanctioning of the Tridentene Mass.

There's a shocker.

I guess it's only bad when it's about Muslims.

Hey, have you ever seen a bishop with bad teeth? Except for those monks that ate 5,000 calories per day back in the 17th century...

Holy flouride! :eek:

5 pages and no outraged rant of indignation from IDF about the resanctioning of the Tridentene Mass.

There's a shocker.

I guess it's only bad when it's about Muslims.

Can someone explain to a non-Abrahmic the significance of the Tridentene Mass?

They used to have the Tridentine mass (in Latin of course) every once in a while at the Catholic school I went to. The ceremony feels much more... religious. It's solemn. It's not trivial. Modern masses seem like town meetings almost.

That said, I'm an atheist now, so it doesn't much matter. Personally, I think the Latin mass is much preferable.

It must not have been that difficult to get permission, at least where I grew up. We had the mass pretty much any time a priest who knew and liked it was visiting.

Holy flouride! :eek:

Not even holy water laced with flouride can stop the onslaught of cheese, bread, beer and mutton of the medieval monk...

Can someone explain to a non-Abrahmic the significance of the Tridentene Mass?

It's in latin.

It's in latin.

That's it? Then why the big hullabaloo?

All Hindu prayers are in Sanskrit. No one feels the need to make the switch over to Gujarati/Hindi.

That's it? Then why the big hullabaloo?

All Hindu prayers are in Sanskrit. No one feels the need to make the switch over to Gujarati/Hindi.

Probably not. But just imagine that somebody told you that you could no longer say them in Sanskrit. There would be some pissed off people no?

And if someone later came along and said that you could say them either way, said pissed off people would all be happy.

(Of course, that supposes that there is some dood in charge of Hindu, who if you don't follow you'll go to hell.)

But your point still stands. It is all extremely silly.

Can someone explain to a non-Abrahmic the significance of the Tridentene Mass?

There's a passage in the Tridentine Mass that specifically refers to Jews as "perfidious" and calls for their conversion.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183053079059&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183053079059&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)

It's in latin.

That's not even the tip of it, man.

That's not even the tip of it, man.

Look, it's all clearly blasphemousness anyway. So why get into a sweat.

Jesus has specifically repudiated the Church of Rome through his episcopacy.

Look, it's all clearly blasphemousness anyway. So why get into a sweat.

Jesus has specifically repudiated the Church of Rome through his episcopacy.

Jesus would punch the Pope in the nuts. :)

Probably not. But just imagine that somebody told you that you could no longer say them in Sanskrit. There would be some pissed off people no?

And if someone later came along and said that you could say them either way, said pissed off people would all be happy.

(Of course, that supposes that there is some dood in charge of Hindu, who if you don't follow you'll go to hell.)

But your point still stands. It is all extremely silly.

There's no central religious body that governs or pontificates on the subject. It's more or less up to the tradition a particular priest is trained in. And there are many.

It's not unusual for priests to also say prayers in Hindi/Gujarati/English. At my cousin's wedding, as the priest was going through the wedding prayers, he also translated them into English for those people who didn't understand the prayers (like me, for instance.)

There's a passage in the Tridentine Mass that specifically refers to Jews as "perfidious" and calls for their conversion.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1183053079059&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Yes, but the new one doesn't say that anymore.

Also, it's metaphorical. Like the Koran,

Why don't you just go all the way back (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Tridentine_Mass), if you're so set on tradition?

As for me, I'll be hangin' tight with my heathen northerner Protestant stuff. Heathenism I say, heathenism.

Jesus would punch the Pope in the nuts. :)

He'd follow it up with a set of kicks to every Protestant sect leader.

Oh, and then he'd go star in Passion of the Christ II.

I thought this thread would be about blaming the pope for farting..

He'd follow it up with a set of kicks to every Protestant sect leader.

Oh, and then he'd go star in Passion of the Christ II.

The Passion of the Christ II: You ain't givin' me no whippin's boy! I'm the son of God! Boom! I just fried your ass with lightning!

Starring:

Jesus of Nazareth--Son of God
Chris Rock--Newly electrocuted Roman Legionnaire.

He'd follow it up with a set of kicks to every Protestant sect leader.

Oh, and then he'd go star in Passion of the Christ II.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4ZzWiTWA0k

:D

Yes, but the new one doesn't say that anymore.

But it still calls for the Jews to "Find Christ."

Also, it's metaphorical. Like the Koran,

Coming from someone who's been having a masturbation marathon on how all Muslims take the Qu'ran literally as the Word of God never to be questioned, that's a pretty fucking disingenous statement.

Then again, disingenuity is your speciality so it's not a shocker really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4ZzWiTWA0k

:D

Indeed.

"JEEESUS! You crazy, man!"

Coming from someone who's been having a masturbation marathon on how all Muslims take the Qu'ran literally as the Word of God never to be questioned, that's a pretty fucking disingenous statement.


Ah, but that is not at all what I have said. Ever.

I said that I don't like the way many muslims I come into contact with - the ones on telly, or the news, or the honor killing types, or the niquab types - interpret the koran themselves. And I also said that their is no point quoting what you think is the koran to me, because I'm not going to read it, and nor do I follow it, so you'd be better off quoting the 'mellow' koran to them, not me.

Now do you get it?

So basically now I can go see a mass I don't care about in a language that I don't understand?

meh

Nemo blandior.

Ahh, the beauties of the Latin Mass... there's something to be said for the almost mystical nature of the pre-Vatican II mass. Much more solemnity and religiosity.

But of course, I then realize that the entirety of Church history has been a huge legalistic creation that has been perpetrated by a succesive series of fallible humans who have decided for themselves what Jesus meant. And don't even get me started on the early Christians deciding for themselves who was right and who was wrong as soon as Jesus and the apostles were gone.

But hey, the Latin mass is beautiful. At least we have that much.

But it still calls for the Jews to "Find Christ."

And? That's the Church's prayer for absolutely every person. Outside of the Church there is no salvation, and outside of Christ there is no Church.

That is doctrine, man.

Ah, but that is not at all what I have said. Ever.

I said that I don't like the way many muslims I come into contact with - the ones on telly, or the news, or the honor killing types, or the niquab types - interpret the koran themselves. And I also said that their is no point quoting what you think is the koran to me, because I'm not going to read it, and nor do I follow it, so you'd be better off quoting the 'mellow' koran to them, not me.

Now do you get it?

I get it.

And so will everyone else.

Especially you.

Wow, you're so full of disingenous flip-flopping shit it's amazing you haven't gotten a job as a septic tank. Here's one of your lines contradicting your copout:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12858118&postcount=41

Hard though it is to believe for the clearly intellectually challenged, it is actually possible to discern the behavior of a group without wasting your time reading their fucking manual.

Islam = bad.

Here's a rich motherload:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7156345&postcount=57

In fact, this whole muslim=peace argument is disingenous. There is nothing in the history of Islam that supports it, nor do the actions of modern day muslims. The US got its shit on because 3000+ people were needlessly slaughtered on its soil. This was after numerous attacks on US citizens overseas by Islamic factions. Yet every muslim I meet tries to justify this in the same historical context that you do banker, i.e, Islam is essentially peaceful but we get picked on an awful lot by the west so it's understandble.

No major islamic leader has ever condememned the violence that inheres in your religion, nor is there any forum to do so. I know for a fact if I blew up Mecca because the practices there were an offence to my God I would be condemed by all leaders of the christian religions. The same cannot be same for a muslim who tries to descrate christian holy sites.

If muslims were serious about religious tolerence in these troubled times they would give up the mosque on the temple mount in jerusalem and they would return the Hagai Sophia to the orthodox church. This would be a clear and unequivocal gesture of peace on the part of the Islamic heirarchy. And one that, frankly, will never be made or asked for by any muslim. Consider this, you can visit western countries and see churches and temples which are now mosques.You never see the opposite in Islamic states. In fact every day Jews wake up and there is a Mosque on their most holy site. How would Muslims react if I built a curch of england temple on that big cube thing in mecca. Yeah, that's right you'd try to blow up the world or something. Islam is an unwelcome relic of the past and should have no place in modern society because of its inherent intolerence and lack of self critism.

Yeah, sounds like you're saying it's all about interpretation there. :rolleyes:

The Sadisco Room could learn a lot from you on how to put on a Muslim Minstrel Show too:

Fatwa on Michael Moore (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=368468)

Here's a BRILLIANT! highlight from you on that lovely piece of minstrelsy:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336379&postcount=72

I'm spreading the word of Muhammed.

And another:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336558&postcount=92

And another:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336655&postcount=96

Oooooh... here's a lovely piece:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336688&postcount=100

You forgot Burqua. I know that one too.
:rolleyes:

And who are you to say I am not a Muslim?Anyone can be a Muslim. You don't need someone's permission you know. If you bothered to study Islam you would know that.

Oh look at this...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336722&postcount=105

Read the Fatwa. It's not murder. As anyone will tell you Islam = Peace.

And here's a refresher on another one of your quotes on this topic:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12858118&postcount=41

Hard though it is to believe for the clearly intellectually challenged, it is actually possible to discern the behavior of a group without wasting your time reading their fucking manual.

Islam = bad.

Let's say it boys and girls... FLIP. FLOP.

And that's just a tidbit of the rich history you've laid into NSG.

Athiest? Bullshit.

Guess how many threads there are on you being just as bitter-assed about other religions?

None.

How many other threads out there where you pretended to be a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jew or a Wiccan and officially declared a death sentence of Michael Moore?

That's right. NONE.

You're just another Islamaphobe masturbating to the "War on Terror" and trying to convince yourself you're an athiest. Or wait, I thought you were a Muslim when you declared a fatwa on Michael Moore.

Which is it?

FLIP. FLOP.

I get it.

And so will everyone else.

Especially you.

Wow, you're so full of disingenous flip-flopping shit it's amazing you haven't gotten a job as a septic tank. Here's one of your lines contradicting your copout:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12858118&postcount=41



Here's a rich motherload:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7156345&postcount=57



Yeah, sounds like you're saying it's all about interpretation there. :rolleyes:

The Sadisco Room could learn a lot from you on how to put on a Muslim Minstrel Show too:

Fatwa on Michael Moore (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=368468)

Here's a BRILLIANT! highlight from you on that lovely piece of minstrelsy:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336379&postcount=72



And another:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336558&postcount=92

And another:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336655&postcount=96

Oooooh... here's a lovely piece:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336688&postcount=100



Oh look at this...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7336722&postcount=105



And here's a refresher on another one of your quotes on this topic:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12858118&postcount=41



Let's say it boys and girls... FLIP. FLOP.

And that's just a tidbit of the rich history you've laid into NSG.

Athiest? Bullshit.

Guess how many threads there are on you being just as bitter-assed about other religions?

None.

How many other threads out there where you pretended to be a Catholic, a Protestant, a Jew or a Wiccan and officially declared a death sentence of Michael Moore?

That's right. NONE.

You're just another Islamaphobe masturbating to the "War on Terror" and trying to convince yourself you're an athiest. Or wait, I thought you were a Muslim when you declared a fatwa on Michael Moore.

Which is it?

FLIP. FLOP.

Dude, you really need to gain some perspective about this whole thing. You're looking kinda silly right now.

I've no idea what any of you are talking about. Bunch of strange rituals and Latin gobbly gook.

He'd follow it up with a set of kicks to every Protestant sect leader.

Oh, and then he'd go star in Passion of the Christ II.

http://i13.tinypic.com/4r0gnpu.jpg

I prefer thisUnfilm - Passion of the Christ: The Lord Strikes Back

EDIT: Stuffed up the link. http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Passion_Of_The_Christ:_The_Lord_Strikes_Back

Our Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in Our Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Praise God...

I can only say of myself that I am...overwhelmed, ecstatic...and am struggling to hold back tears of joy.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.

I actually planned to attend a Tridentine Mass in a nearby city before this proclamation came out. And I'm glad you can now celebrate Mass as you prefer it without a Bishop's approval. :)

That said, now can you ask your fellow Traditionalists to stop whining about the Novus Ordo and its terrible liturgical abuses like, for example, not always using a chalice made of precious metal, or the horrific idea of incorporating meaningful and Christ-focused liturgical events into the usual mass formula?

Because that sort of thing really, really gets on my nerves. Primarily because it shows a distinct lack of the quality that really distinguished that Jesus guy Christians are supposed to be emulating from those around him, you know, the part where he cared a lot more about tending to the good of his flock than he did about following the rules established by the religious authorities.

He'd follow it up with a set of kicks to every Protestant sect leader.

Oh, and then he'd go star in Passion of the Christ II.

HE is already BACK! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0311361/) :cool:

Oh dear... I am glad I do no longer have to suffer through masses. Latin would make the whole ceremony even more ridiculous. I mean... come on, how longf is that language no longer spoken except in rituals?

Our Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in Our Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

I guess that you would call JPII a Modernist. Him, one of the harshest right-wing reactionaires ever. The one who was chosen to stop the influx of the real modernists, Paul VI and John Paul I (the latter very likely killed).


Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."


Yeah, I can see the EXCOMMUNICATED Marcel Lefebre rejoicing, he his allowed by the Church to pray "pro perfidoe iudaeos" again.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.
So, what was what you got since the Council of Trento until now? Did you disattend it because you didn't like it? Oh, great obeyance...

Dude, you really need to gain some perspective about this whole thing. You're looking kinda silly right now.

Translation, you've been pwned by your own words and now you're suddenly trying to salvage whatever passes for dignity by disingenuously taking the moral high ground and passing yourself off as being civil and diplomatic.

Thanks again for playing and getting played.

I guess that you would call JPII a Modernist. Him, one of the harshest right-wing reactionaires ever. The one who was chosen to stop the influx of the real modernists, Paul VI and John Paul I (the latter very likely killed).

Nothing says Modern Catholic like stepping on Liberation Theology like a bug eh?

Nothing says Modern Catholic like stepping on Liberation Theology like a bug eh?

It was the main reason because they choose John Paul II. To stop the left-wingers in the Church. With the kind help of the Polish lobby in the US government and the IOR (Vatican Bank controlled by Mr."God's Banker" Marcinkus, linked to Mr."God's Banker Hanged under Blackfriars' Bridge" Calvi and to Mr."I don't like my poisoned espresso" Sindona, put under scrutiny by poor, late "Pope for 30 days" JPI).

Oh, btw, Ratzi was elected against the Martini-Tettamanzi group, quite pro-Liberation Theology.

Meh. Religion+Money=Vatican. Money-money-money-money...

It was the main reason because they choose John Paul II. To stop the left-wingers in the Church. With the kind help of the Polish lobby in the US government and the IOR (Vatican Bank controlled by Mr."God's Banker" Marcinkus, linked to Mr."God's Banker Hanged under Blackfriars' Bridge" Calvi and to Mr."I don't like my poisoned espresso" Sindona, put under scrutiny by poor, late "Pope for 30 days" JPI).

Oh, btw, Ratzi was elected against the Martini-Tettamanzi group, quite pro-Liberation Theology.

Meh. Religion+Money=Vatican. Money-money-money-money...

The Catholic Church just misses the Good Old Days when it was the Microsoft of Dark Ages Europe.

Notice a trend here?

First Uncle Vlad's trying to roll back the clock in Russia, and now Pope Palpatine I is trying to do the same with the Catholic Church.

It won't be long before the Swiss Guard gets new uniforms:

http://www.jedi-academy.com/film/royal_guard.jpg

A Mass in Latin is exactly what we need. :-)
O.k. I believe there are some days like easter where you can offer a Latin Mass also. But these Masses were used to keep the believors thumb as usually no-one did understand the words. /by the way: who understands the thing the Vatican says??
If you are a traditionalist: Why not a Mass in Aramaic ? The language Jesus spoke?

The mass is intended to let you hear God's teachings (liturgy) and interpret how to apply them to your life with the help of a priest (homily) and then celebrate God's love and sacrifice for us (Eucharist).

Could you understand something in a language you don't know?
In Latin the liturgy is now useless (for the common non Latin speaking man)
Could you interpret something you can't understand?
In Latin the homily is now useless.
Could you praise and celebrate something in another language?
I suppose but it loses some of it meaning.


Seeing as most of the catholic populace (I love that word) is non-Latin speaking, the Tridente mass alienates many people from the church and in the long run God.


Don't call the Pope "holy father" that is God's title.

Dude, you really need to gain some perspective about this whole thing. You're looking kinda silly right now.

Gauthier has a talent in that area. I think it's because he's off his meds.

Not only would Latin make it harder to understand the service but what spiritual benifit is there to having the mass in Latin?

My Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in My Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Praise God...

I can only say of myself that I am...overwhelmed, ecstatic...and am struggling to hold back tears of joy.

I'm going to have the Holy Mass again.

Fixed.

Enjoy the mass.

Yes, I love how people like to cherry-pick moments from their 'golden past'.

Inquisition? Just a blip. Crusades? Just a blip.

The Crusades (a) were a good thing, (b) were poorly executed, (c) suffered from insufficient long-term planning, and (d) were delayed 400 years too long. And if Pope Benedict ever preaches the Final Crusade, I expect to put on the cross, load my gun and cry "Deus vult!"

The Pope did it. In the dining room. With the candlestick.

You sure it wasn't in the apse with a censer?

The Crusades (a) were a good thing, (b) were poorly executed, (c) suffered from insufficient long-term planning, and (d) were delayed 400 years too long. And if Pope Benedict ever preaches the Final Crusade, I expect to put on the cross, load my gun and cry "Deus vult!"

LOL

Bonus points if you can A) tell me what that means and B) tell me what part of the mass that comes from and C) give me the whole line.

A) "by my fault"
B) The Ordinary, before the Introit: "Prayers at the Foot of the Altar".
C) Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

You sure it wasn't in the apse with a censer?

I always suck at this game. *goes back to playing Monopoly* Yay economics!

I was going to make them stand on top of each other blind folded and naked. Also I would have been mocking their gadgets.

Ah, the Lynndie England treatment. Classic.

He did it?! Damn, I totally thought it was the butler...
The Pope, with the crucifix, in the chapel...

Little did Jesus know that someday, what was originally a last meal, and a last chance to enlighten his followers (who were, by and large, clueless spiritual wannabes who used following as an excuse to stay unemployed) would someday be an overly complicated and overly discussed mantra devoid of meaning.

Hey, here's the message of the Last Supper, in a nutshell.

"Ok, here's the deal guys. I'm probably going to die tonight, because one of you can't keep his fucking mouth shut. Oh, and others of you are going to deny you even know who I am. Well, that's ok, because I know you guys are human, and being human, you're weak.

So, I figure all these parables I've been telling you for the past three years have gone over your head. That, and like the Jews before me, you'll overcomplicate every thing I've ever said, and embellish it with your own bullshit. Try not to do it with what comes next:

When you're hungry, you eat.

When you're thirst, you drink.

So, when you feel spiritually empty, get your spiritual nourishment from remembering me, and connecting to God.

That's it - no fancy smoke, bells, catchy foreign phrases, liturgical music, or any other claptrap.

Say, where did Judas go?"

Can someone explain to a non-Abrahmic the significance of the Tridentene Mass?

It's significant as the oldest advertisement for chewing gum in history. "Tridentene" is the Latin way of writing what is now "Try Dentyne" -- a plea by the Cadbury-Adams Corporation for you to sample their gum. The originator of this plea, the Catholic oral hygienist Adam Cadburius, thought that gum might be just the thing to sway people into becoming Catholic. Unfortunately, guilt, torture and the acquisition of enough wealth to make Solomon blush won out.

I believe a further relevant question also comes to mind: Why latin?

I believe a further relevant question also comes to mind: Why latin?

Tradition.

Tradition.

But...wouldn't it be more traditional to do it in, say, Aramaic?

But it still calls for the Jews to "Find Christ."


Which reminds me of one of my favorite bumper stickers: "I found Jesus and I'm not telling you where He is!

Little did Jesus know that someday, what was originally a last meal, and a last chance to enlighten his followers (who were, by and large, clueless spiritual wannabes who used following as an excuse to stay unemployed) would someday be an overly complicated and overly discussed mantra devoid of meaning.

Hey, here's the message of the Last Supper, in a nutshell.

"Ok, here's the deal guys. I'm probably going to die tonight, because one of you can't keep his fucking mouth shut. Oh, and others of you are going to deny you even know who I am. Well, that's ok, because I know you guys are human, and being human, you're weak.

So, I figure all these parables I've been telling you for the past three years have gone over your head. That, and like the Jews before me, you'll overcomplicate every thing I've ever said, and embellish it with your own bullshit. Try not to do it with what comes next:

When you're hungry, you eat.

When you're thirst, you drink.

So, when you feel spiritually empty, get your spiritual nourishment from remembering me, and connecting to God.

That's it - no fancy smoke, bells, catchy foreign phrases, liturgical music, or any other claptrap.

Say, where did Judas go?"

Wow. You win the thread. Well put.

Did he say Dio?

http://www.nintendorks.com/chris/archives/ronniejamesdio.jpg



...oh wait, it was Deo. Ah, this one's better. :D

Ronnie James Dio kicks ass. Enough said.

But...wouldn't it be more traditional to do it in, say, Aramaic?

Jesus never performed a Mass. Also, the entire spread of Christianity was through the Latin language. It kept illiterate peasants down in the Middle Ages too.

Ronnie James Dio kicks ass. Enough said.

DIO!!!

Yes, I love how people like to cherry-pick moments from their 'golden past'.

Inquisition? Just a blip. Crusades? Just a blip.

Oh, but torture can be fun when it's people you hate, har har.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition :

The Spanish Inquisition was set up by King Ferdinand of Aragon and Queen Isabella of Castile in 1478 [...] and was not abolished in Europe until 1834.

A blip that lasted over 350 years.

DIO!!!

I'm listening to him on Rainbow right now. Is it just me, or does he automatically make any band he's in kick ass? Because he makes Joe Lynn Turner suck.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.
Wait, aren't we having Mass right now?

Personally, I've been happy with Vatican II. You know, you've got the Holy Mass in your own vernacular. Easier to understand the real message and what are you even doing during Mass. If I have to go through a Holy Mass listening to Latin all the time, I'd just rather quit attending Mass.

But at least the Pope did not require the priests. And the parishioners may still have a choice. I probably won't attend a Mass entirely in a language I don't understand.

Wait, aren't we having Mass right now?

Personally, I've been happy with Vatican II. You know, you've got the Holy Mass in your own vernacular. Easier to understand the real message and what are you even doing during Mass. If I have to go through a Holy Mass listening to Latin all the time, I'd just rather quit attending Mass.

But at least the Pope did not require the priests. And the parishioners may still have a choice. I probably won't attend a Mass entirely in a language I don't understand.

I'm sure it won't be a universal conversion to Latin Mass. This just makes it possible for priests in traditional communities who want the Latin Mass to perform the Latin Mass. I don't see why everyone would start doing it.

If they did, the Catholic Church would probably hemmorhage followers.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Eh, what? I don't have a clue what that is.

Well, let's see, he's allowing (not requiring) the Latin Mass and telling people how to drive. I understand that he wants a return to regular liturgical music (no more folk masses or gospel or any of that Protestant-type music) and that he wants nuns back in their habits. I understand that he will not countenance a married clergy or female priests and does not want women to be active in Church government or decision making, or in the liturgy. I think Pope ("Let's put the toothpaste back in the tube") Benedict wants to preside over the final downfall of the Catholic Church.

I may have missed this, but, how does he feel about Catholic priests being subject to the laws of the country where they live?

I'm listening to him on Rainbow right now. Is it just me, or does he automatically make any band he's in kick ass? Because he makes Joe Lynn Turner suck.

It's not just you. Dio totally rocks.

I may have missed this, but, how does he feel about Catholic priests being subject to the laws of the country where they live?
Well they should be.

Well they should be.

Yes, they should be. But this has been a bone of contention for centuries. Henry II was excommunicated because of it. Henry VIII kicked the Church out because of it. In the US (and other countries), the Church has hidden pedophile priests because they (the Church) think that it's an internal issue.

Wait, aren't we having Mass right now?

Personally, I've been happy with Vatican II. You know, you've got the Holy Mass in your own vernacular. Easier to understand the real message and what are you even doing during Mass. If I have to go through a Holy Mass listening to Latin all the time, I'd just rather quit attending Mass.

But at least the Pope did not require the priests. And the parishioners may still have a choice. I probably won't attend a Mass entirely in a language I don't understand.

Pre-1970 Masses, at least at my parish, used missals in which the Latin texts were accompanied by an English translation. So you could follow along and know what was being said.

In the US (and other countries), the Church has hidden pedophile priests because they (the Church) think that it's an internal issue.
Wow. That's pathetic. There's no reason why they shouldn't face the laws of their locale. As for the main debate...the Church is going to allow Mass in a old language nearly no one speaks anymore? I couldn't really care less.

Pre-1970 Masses, at least at my parish, used missals in which the Latin texts were accompanied by an English translation. So you could follow along and know what was being said.
Er, not every parish is rich enough to afford missals. And 'sides, I was born in 1988, so I never attended any Tridentine Mass. But from the feedback I had with those who did, it wasn't very good. I mean, they don't even understand what the priest was saying, and most of the time the priest wasn't facing the churchgoers.

Er, not every parish is rich enough to afford missals. And 'sides, I was born in 1988, so I never attended any Tridentine Mass. But from the feedback I had with those who did, it wasn't very good. I mean, they don't even understand what the priest was saying, and most of the time the priest wasn't facing the churchgoers.

My church doesn't have pews yet, just a bunch of chairs. That's more because they found an eagle's nest on the site and couldn't build the church the way they had wanted, though, I think.

I was born in 1990, and I've never been to a mass in Latin. In fact it was just a month ago that I finally started going back to church for mass. My family only really attended on Christmas or Christmas Eve and Easter, but then we didn't go last Easter. Now that I can drive, I've started going again every Sunday and my mom has come with me.

I have been studying Latin for the past three years though in school, and I got a 5 (highest score) on the Latin Literature AP exam. We're reading the Aeneid next year in Latin. :)

*flash to tomorrow*

Pope Benedict XVI has called for a Crusade to save the holy land from the evil Muslim oppressors.Um... Jewish oppressors. :eek:

Latin rulez! :) :) :)

Beati pauperes spiritu, quoniam ipsorum est regnum caelorum ... and some folks want into heaven sooo badly ;)

Pre-1970 Masses, at least at my parish, used missals in which the Latin texts were accompanied by an English translation. So you could follow along and know what was being said.

Then whats the point really?

"We are going to have mass in a language no one understands so they can read the subtitles"

WTF purpose does it serve, Surly it does not serve making gods wisdom more apparent to his flock and is that not the point of the whole organization?

Then whats the point really?

"We are going to have mass in a language no one understands so they can read the subtitles"

WTF purpose does it serve, Surly it does not serve making gods wisdom more apparent to his flock and is that not the point of the whole organization?Learning Latin always increases your understanding of your own language, so don't curse!
Et nunc est bibendum :)

Learning Latin always increases your understanding of your own language, so don't curse!
Et nunc est bibendum :)

As an intellectual challange sure, if you have the right attitude towards it

What is the chase that Joe smhoe is going to take that from a mass and do the benefits outweigh the costs of them not being able to understand it.

Learning Latin always increases your understanding of your own language, so don't curse!
Et nunc est bibendum :)

Except when your own language is descended from Sanskrit...

Except when your own language is descended from Sanskrit...

Win.

As an intellectual challange sure, if you have the right attitude towards it

What is the chase that Joe smhoe is going to take that from a mass and do the benefits outweigh the costs of them not being able to understand it.Te non comprehendo.

Except when your own language is descended from Sanskrit...Still Indo-european... :) iirr there are quite a lot of similarities in word stems and structures. Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas!

Sic transit gloria ecclesiae. :rolleyes:

Still Indo-european... :) iirr there are quite a lot of similarities in word stems and structures. Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas!

I hadn't expected anyone to catch that. Latin and Sanskrit actually do have a common root.

Sic transit gloria ecclesia. :rolleyes:ecclesiae

Sic transit gloria ecclesia. :rolleyes:

A sic transition this is, no glorious excesses for the masses.

I read too much Asterix.

I hadn't expected anyone to catch that.I apologize.
Latin and Sanskrit actually do have a common root.Yup. :) Ad fundum ire me delectat.

ecclesiae

oops. Thanks

It's not just you. Dio totally rocks.

I thought so.

Jesus never performed a Mass. Also, the entire spread of Christianity was through the Latin language. It kept illiterate peasants down in the Middle Ages too.

Surely you actually mean to write "the entire spread of Western Christianity was through the Latin language." The Orthodox Church would be very surprised to find out that its primary language had ever been Latin.

As to this whole fuss Catholics are managing to get themselves into over the Tridentine Mass... We Orthodox can't understand why you Western schismatics ever bothered to 'change' your mass anyway. Why not just follow our practice of a highly-traditional liturgy in the local language? But then what would we expect from a bunch of people who unilaterally altered the Creed by adding the filioque without recourse to an Ecumenical Council . Double procession of the Holy Spirit, my arse :p

That's OK - we'll welcome you back to the One True Church one day, just as soon as you give up this monarchistic Papacy nonsense, accept the conciliar nature of the Church, and drop the filioque.


And finally, Dio's crap compared to Ozzy. Foolish people who say otherwise!

Surely you actually mean to write "the entire spread of Western Christianity was through the Latin language." The Orthodox Church would be very surprised to find out that its primary language had ever been Latin.

As to this whole fuss Catholics are managing to get themselves into over the Tridentine Mass... We Orthodox can't understand why you Western schismatics ever bothered to 'change' your mass anyway. Why not just follow our practice of a highly-traditional liturgy in the local language? But then what would we expect from a bunch of people who unilaterally altered the Creed by adding the filioque without recourse to an Ecumenical Council . Double procession of the Holy Spirit, my arse :p

That's OK - we'll welcome you back to the One True Church one day, just as soon as you give up this monarchistic Papacy nonsense, accept the conciliar nature of the Church, and drop the filioque.


And finally, Dio's crap compared to Ozzy. Foolish people who say otherwise!

Why would you want them to convert to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism if you're Orthodox? :p

As a practicing Catholic, how can you fully participate in a liturgy when you are reading from a book and do not know the language? In the early church, Eucharist was celebrated with the people, but as the middle ages crept in, Bishops became more like princes and less Presiding Presbyter, unlike in the early church. Also, liturgy became more and more elaborate and was taken from the people, where it rightfully belonged: shared by all, not a one man show. Thankfully, the Spirit of Vatican II is reviving the early church practices.

What an epic battle...

The OP and Decisive Action.

Too bad he was DOS. :(

Why would you want them to convert to Flying Spaghetti Monsterism if you're Orthodox? :p

Pastafarian, PC.

Learning Latin always increases your understanding of your own language, so don't curse!
Et nunc est bibendum :)

Veni Vidi Risi.

:)

Veni Vidi Risi.

:)

Felis domesticus.

Pastafarian, PC.

If that's a correction, Flying Spaghetti Monsterism and Pastafarianism are both correct.

Felis domesticus.Got two of those.

Felis domesticus.

Canis lupus familiaris.

Three years of Latin in high school and all I can remember (aside from amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatus, amant) is the first line of Caesar's Commentaries and the first ten lines of Vergil's Aenead.

Learning Latin always increases your understanding of your own language, so don't curse!
What if I tell you that I speak an Austronesian language?

What if I tell you that I speak an Austronesian language?Honey, every time you try to learn a new language, you think about the structures in your own language, no matter how dissimilar the two languages may be. And because Latin is such a rich language, you will think more, and that's always a good thing, isn't it?

Honey, every time you try to learn a new language, you think about the structures in your own language, no matter how dissimilar the two languages may be. And because Latin is such a rich language, you will think more, and that's always a good thing, isn't it?
Maybe... but I hate grammar. And Latin and its spawns are not gender friendly. Why does the table have to be female? Why can't we have gay gender? :rolleyes:

Veni Vidi Risi.

:)

Vidi Vici Veni ;)

As a practicing Catholic, how can you fully participate in a liturgy when you are reading from a book and do not know the language?


1) Make the effort to learn the liturgy.
2) Use a bilingual Latin/English missal.

No problem. :cool:

Our Holy Father has done it! He has issued the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summorum_Pontificum). I, and so many other traditionalists, have waited so very long for this motu proprio. Indeed, many of us have begun to lose hope in Our Holy Father, and had begun to presume him to be nothing more than another Modernist. But here it is.

Quoting Wikipedia, "In the document itself, he stated that the Tridentine Mass and other pre-Conciliar forms of the sacraments were 'never abrogated' and that 'a priest does not require any permission' to celebrate them."

Praise God...

I can only say of myself that I am...overwhelmed, ecstatic...and am struggling to hold back tears of joy.

We're going to have the Holy Mass again.

Erm isn't the Holy Father God? And thus aren't you committing blasphemy by calling the Pope "Holy Father"?

1) Make the effort to learn the liturgy.
2) Use a bilingual Latin/English missal.

No problem. :cool:

Thoes are the costs ... what are the benefits?

Especially to the average person who by and large can hardly be arsed to drag them selfs out of bed to go to church

Erm isn't the Holy Father God? And thus aren't you committing blasphemy by calling the Pope "Holy Father"?No.

Vidi Vici Veni ;)

:p

No.

But his funniest title is Primate of Italy :p

But his funniest title is Primate of Italy :p

YAY! :D

YAY! :D

I giggled too I did not know THAT one :) its even funnier cause its true :)

I wonder how the worlds irony meter did not blow up pre acceptance of evolution by the RC church

But his funniest title is Primate of Italy :p

Ook?

Ook?

Yup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate_%28religion%29 interesting stuff :)

I giggled too I did not know THAT one :) its even funnier cause its true :)

I wonder how the worlds irony meter did not blow up pre acceptance of evolution by the RC church

That's the second thing I thought of. The first was of one of those little organ grinder guys with the little monkey that goes around panhandling tips with his little cup.

Vidi Vici Veni ;)

I came, I saw, and then I came again :)

Ook?

I didn't get it either. :confused:

*flash to tomorrow*

Pope Benedict XVI has called for a Crusade to save the holy land from the evil Muslim oppressors.

ZOMG!!! The Catholics have done something newsworthy it must be a sign of a coming action against all those poor muslims NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

:rolleyes:

Dominus hubiscum habisco. Esperitu sanctum. Dey gas da bus. Me gas da bus. You gas da bus. We missed the bus. They missed the bus. When's the next bus? Suma cum laude. Magna cum laude. The radio's too louda. Odesti Fidellas, Centra fidellas, Hi fidellas, Post meridian. Anti-meridian. Uncle meridian. All of the little meridians. Magna carta. Master charga Dume procellas. Lotsa vitalles

Cookie to whomever can name where this came from!

Cookie to whomever can name where this came from!

I know the answer, but I'm not going to say it because I just cheated to find out. :p

I didn't get it either. :confused:

The only point was that someone took issue with one of the popes names

and I pointed out a true but silly one he also has :)

I came, I saw, and then I came again :)

Actually, it's "I saw, I conquered, I came."

Veni Vidi Risi(my personal latin motto) means, "I came, I saw, I laughed." :)

ZOMG!!! The Catholics have done something newsworthy it must be a sign of a coming action against all those poor muslims NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

:rolleyes:

They have not only done something news worthy they have done something to revert backwards ... I dont think the quoted poster was only talking about newsworthyness

I came, I saw, and then I came again :)

Lol, I'm going to have to remember that.

I didn't get it either. :confused:

It's a papal title. The pope collects titles. Kind of like baseball cards. Curently, he is:

Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Primate of Italy
Inventor of the Dildo
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God


:)

Can you guess which one I added?

and I pointed out a true but silly one he also has :)

Oh, I see. I didn't understand because I'm quite used to seeing 'Primate' in a Church context (The Archbishop of Canterbury is the 'Primate of All England'), but I suppose it is a bit of a funny word if you take a step back and look at it. :p

It's a papal title. The pope collects titles. Kind of like baseball cards. Curently, he is:

Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Primate of Italy
Inventor of the Dildo
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God


:)

Can you guess which one I added?

Yup

I am guessing the vicar of Christ that sounds totally fake!

-snip-

The sixth one is new to me. :p

But his funniest title is Primate of Italy :p

now... you sure of that? it's really NOT PRIME-MATE of Itally? ;)

The sixth one is new to me. :p

But if you think about it, it makes a creepy kind of sense. *nod*

Oh, I see. I didn't understand because I'm quite used to seeing 'Primate' in a Church context (The Archbishop of Canterbury is the 'Primate of All England'), but I suppose it is a bit of a funny word if you take a step back and look at it. :p

Yup ... I mean I understand how it is derived but in current context by far his funniest name :)

But his funniest title is Primate of Italy :pOnly for anglophones with limited neocortical capabilities.

Only for anglophones with limited neocortical capabilities.

*defenestrates you*

I wonder how the worlds irony meter did not blow up pre acceptance of evolution by the RC churchWhy? They're not protestants.

Only for anglophones with limited neocortical capabilities.
Possibly ... but do you find any of his other names to be any more humorous? Regardless of neocortical capacity?

Possibly ... but do you find any of his other names to be any more humorous? Regardless of neocortical capacity?you find homonyms humorous? very entertaining :rolleyes:

you find homonyms humorous? very entertaining :rolleyes:

Sure they can be ... but even if they are not THAT funny they can still be relatively funny.

Relative quality != Absolute quality

1) Make the effort to learn the liturgy.
2) Use a bilingual Latin/English missal.

No problem. :cool:

1) Liturgy before the glorious council was sitting and clinking rosaries. Now the laity fully participate in the Eucharistic Celebration, and do not simply watch.

2) I do not go to read from a book, I go to HEAR the word of God.

Vatican II opened the windows of the church, as John XXIII said, we do not need to close them, but open them even wider.

It's a papal title. The pope collects titles. Kind of like baseball cards. Curently, he is:

Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Primate of Italy
Inventor of the Dildo
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God


:)

Can you guess which one I added?

For the benefit of the "Brides of Christ," no doubt.