NationStates Jolt Archive

Verizon take the copper that people use from phone lines, making it hard for you to drop there new service if you change your mind, or if you buy a home to which this has been done.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070708/ap_on_bi_ge/verizon_cutting_copper;_ylt=ApKjnmueEzysi4_a_zJlgrjMWM0F

And Verizon isn't required, in most instances, to lease fiber to rival phone companies, as it is with the copper infrastructure.

Could Verizon be working toward a new monopoly? It wouldn't seem as bad if verizon didn't do all it can to make sure people are stuck with their fiber. AT&T leaves enough of the copper so it is easier to reconnect to older systems if you want to revert back.

Eh. Just stick to cell phones and the problem solves itself. I kinda like having no phone at all, but if I ever need to buy one, it'll probably be a prepaid cell.

Why should they be forced to lease their fiber? If they spend the money installing it, other companies shouldn't be allowed to piggyback on their investment in the first place. I don't think it's fair at all; if other companies want their business, let them build, maintain, and install their own fiber networks. Anything else just creates a disincentive to make large capitol investments in infrastructure, which is always a bad thing.

Besides, with competition from wifi and cell phones, land lines are just not capable of having the same kind of monopoly they once did. If I were Verizon, I would do anything to prevent the government from forcing me to open up my network to competitors. If they want it, they need to spend the money on it.

I love copper! I'll take it all!

I love copper! I'll take it all!

It's also worth $3.59 a pound...that's a nice amount of cash in each house if you take all the wiring in to account.

They should not cut off you from another choice. Cutting the "copper" does that unless you take on the expense of reconnecting it.

They should not cut off you from another choice. Cutting the "copper" does that unless you take on the expense of reconnecting it.

They should just be required to inform you of that fact clearly and at multiple times prior to installation. I think they should be permitted to remove the copper and make you pay to have it reinstalled, but it should also be clear and unequivocal that you won't be able to have copper-line services once FiOS is installed.

Removing the copper is okay, buy misleading people by burying it in fine print is not.

Why should they be forced to lease their fiber? If they spend the money installing it, other companies shouldn't be allowed to piggyback on their investment in the first place. I don't think it's fair at all; if other companies want their business, let them build, maintain, and install their own fiber networks. Anything else just creates a disincentive to make large capitol investments in infrastructure, which is always a bad thing.
This is the kind of crap statement is why they are trying to get rid of net neutrality - it's "our" fiber and "our" network, we should be allowed to decide who gets what speed and when, "Google is using up all our network." Crap.

Why should they be forced to lease their fiber? If they spend the money installing it, other companies shouldn't be allowed to piggyback on their investment in the first place. I don't think it's fair at all; if other companies want their business, let them build, maintain, and install their own fiber networks. Anything else just creates a disincentive to make large capitol investments in infrastructure, which is always a bad thing.

Besides, with competition from wifi and cell phones, land lines are just not capable of having the same kind of monopoly they once did. If I were Verizon, I would do anything to prevent the government from forcing me to open up my network to competitors. If they want it, they need to spend the money on it.

Not only is it extremely expensive to lay new fiber/other cables to every home, it would be a disaster to force every company (provided they could afford it) to do it. Or would you like to have your lawn dug up every time there is a new ISP in town?

The free market just doesn't work well when the investments required to enter the market is billions upon billions of dollars. Most cities have monopolies on cable and Internet for precisely this reason. We also can't forget that we have already paid for much of the infrastructure through government subsidies (what, you thought they build it all on their own?) and that the cables are in both public and privately owned land.

This is one of the few areas where I think strict government regulation is necessary. I don't see how the Internet has any kind of meaningful future without it, at least not until we can go all wireless and the barriers to entry are so low that pretty much anyone can provide service.

hang on a second here, how exactly does Verizon maintain these copper wires?

hang on a second here, how exactly does Verizon maintain these copper wires?

Think a little...

They repair wires cut during excavation. They repair wires that have been damaged by weather. They maintain wires and repair damage due to all causes.

Why should they be forced to lease their fiber? If they spend the money installing it, other companies shouldn't be allowed to piggyback on their investment in the first place. I don't think it's fair at all; if other companies want their business, let them build, maintain, and install their own fiber networks. Anything else just creates a disincentive to make large capitol investments in infrastructure, which is always a bad thing.

Besides, with competition from wifi and cell phones, land lines are just not capable of having the same kind of monopoly they once did. If I were Verizon, I would do anything to prevent the government from forcing me to open up my network to competitors. If they want it, they need to spend the money on it.

This was the same with copper some years ago. A homeowner's association won a lawsuit against Bell and won the ability to share the wires for a home-brew DSL network. Right now, fiber doesn't support the same sort of multi-use that phone and DSL can share on copper, but when/if it can, I suspect that it will be made available in a similar fashion.

I think this is only a problem because most towns are publicly, not privately, owned. A private urban development would likely have contracts with companies so as to provide the best and cheapest services to the residents so as to encourage them to immigrate, as well as increase property values.

It's also worth $3.59 a pound...that's a nice amount of cash in each house if you take all the wiring in to account.

Except if I remember correctly, they are only able to mess with the wire UP TO the house, not INSIDE IT.

Not only is it extremely expensive to lay new fiber/other cables to every home, it would be a disaster to force every company (provided they could afford it) to do it. Or would you like to have your lawn dug up every time there is a new ISP in town?

The free market just doesn't work well when the investments required to enter the market is billions upon billions of dollars. Most cities have monopolies on cable and Internet for precisely this reason. We also can't forget that we have already paid for much of the infrastructure through government subsidies (what, you thought they build it all on their own?) and that the cables are in both public and privately owned land.

This is one of the few areas where I think strict government regulation is necessary. I don't see how the Internet has any kind of meaningful future without it, at least not until we can go all wireless and the barriers to entry are so low that pretty much anyone can provide service.

Exactly, it's called a geographic monopoly and in the cases of cable television, land-line phone service, and electric power generation and transmission, they are sadly unavoidable.

Why would you ever go back to copper after you've seen the Light? lol pun

Am I the only one who read this thread title and thought of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekw3XVq1uHs)?

It's also worth $3.59 a pound...that's a nice amount of cash in each house if you take all the wiring in to account.

yeah...pre-1982 American pennies are worth more than twice their face value in copper