NationStates Jolt Archive

“The secret to everlasting left-wing government was discovered in Sweden decades ago. First raise tax and employ as much of the electorate as possible. Next, offer generous welfare and bribe the middle classes with childcare. Soon, a critical mass of voters becomes part of the government project, and votes for its expansion. Higher private sector earners may squeal at the tax rates, but are easily outnumbered. Eventually the right-wing opposition grows tired of losing elections, and starts pledging to outspend the government, if elected. Then victory is complete.”

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=7379&page=1

My question today is simple, do you agree with the quote? Do you think that in Sweden or in other countries in particular that the key to the victory of the left is the employment of their greatest resource - social capital, right-wing parties have always relied upon their support being on an apathetic electorate, in influential allies such as business and wealthy individuals, but if people were to become more political active on a local level, to rely on the state for their good health and that our their kith and kin, and even their good wages, could socialism be entrenched as it has been seen to have done in Sweden, in a truly democratic and consensus way across the globe?

Swedish economist Fredrik Erixon said:
“With so many taking their income from the government, it is basically impossible for a party to be elected proposing drastic cuts in public spending. So even if Sweden has a change in government at the next election, the policies will not change — it will just be new faces. The Social Democrats have won the ultimate battle of politics: they have redefined the political debate.”

If I'm not mistaken*, Reinfeldt's government is centre-right, but still welfare-friendly. That is possible because Swedes, and indeed Scandinavians, are so used to a massive welfare system that anyone who would seek to abolish it is almost viewed as an enemy of the state!

I Denmark, the left-wing parties claim to be left-wing and the right-wing parties claim to be centre. There is only one party which does not have welfare written somewhere in their programme, and that is only because that particular party does not have a programme yet.

You might say that we (Scandinavians) are lucky to be at a stage where democracy is only about very minor adjustments to the way society works, or, you might say that we are utterly spoiled.


*How I love that line :D

My question today is simple, do you agree with the quote? Do you think that in Sweden or in other countries in particular that the key to the victory of the left is the employment of their greatest resource - social capital, right-wing parties have always relied upon their support being on an apathetic electorate, in influential allies such as business and wealthy individuals, but if people were to become more political active on a local level, to rely on the state for their good health and that our their kith and kin, and even their good wages, could socialism be entrenched as it has been seen to have done in Sweden, in a truly democratic and consensus way across the globe?

so the quote is basically saying "the secret to lasting left wing government is the left wing effectively achieving what they plan to do"? because i wouldn't say any of that mentioned in the quote is any kind of 'plot to keep power' from the left, but merely what the left in general wants to do. spin the article the other way around and it basically says 'people love what the left have done in Sweden, and keep voting the left back into power!'

its from the spectator. i wouldn't expect much.

so the quote is basically saying "the secret to lasting left wing government is the left wing effectively achieving what they plan to do"? because i wouldn't say any of that mentioned in the quote is any kind of 'plot to keep power' from the left, but merely what the left in general wants to do. spin the article the other way around and it basically says 'people love what the left have done in Sweden, and keep voting the left back into power!'

its from the spectator. i wouldn't expect much.

Well I agree, I was just trying to frame the question in a non-partisan way, I am not saying socialists want to take over as a bad thing - my opinion is that this could result in a victory indeed for the common people over the elitist right-wing parties.

I myself am a socialist.

I myself am a socialist.

Yes, I saw the flag on your page :D

I do not know if the intention behind this thread was to initiate a discussion of ideologies, but assuming that it was, here goes.

I'm not a socialist, though I like most elements of the (Danish) welfare system, and I have no problem being taxed for free hospital access and education. I do believe however, that the state is involved in too many aspects of society, where publicly owned bureaucratic inefficiency-ridden industries are yielding massive deficiencies, and are allowed to do so because they're artificially protected from the market. It could be done so much better (and cheaper!) by professionals, and such are, sadly, not found within the public sector.

Yes, I saw the flag on your page :D

I do not know if the intention behind this thread was to initiate a discussion of ideologies, but assuming that it was, here goes.

I'm not a socialist, though I like most elements of the (Danish) welfare system, and I have no problem being taxed for free hospital access and education. I do believe however, that the state is involved in too many aspects of society, where publicly owned bureaucratic inefficiency-ridden industries are yielding massive deficiencies, and are allowed to do so because they're artificially protected from the market. It could be done so much better (and cheaper!) by professionals, and such are, sadly, not found within the public sector.

I see, I am very interested in the welfare systems in Scandinavia and trying to find more information on them for the different countries.

The first paragraph basically say that if you can manage to make the middle class (with good benefit) big enough to include most of your elector you will keep getting elected. I see this has a no brainer.... either if you are right/left.

And about the state employing a large part of is population, if it's viable, why not?

I would extend a caveat to the op: as long as the money holds out.

Sweden in particular is having some problems funding their system. They were forced to introduce some reforms five years ago (the Swedish finance minister actually said "We'll be broke in a decade if these don't go through"). They managed that, but I understand they're not looking forward to any posible economic downturns.

Mind you, Denmark and Norway are nowhere near as extreme a system. I'd guess they're still pretty solvent.

My natural inclination is against any kind of perpetual *blank*-wing government. Perpetuity in government breeds complacency, and that complacency stifles creativity and innovation.

I see, I am very interested in the welfare systems in Scandinavia and trying to find more information on them for the different countries.

If you have some specific questions, please go ahead, or line me a telegram if you wish.



Mind you, Denmark and Norway are nowhere near as extreme a system. I'd guess they're still pretty solvent.

Yes, that is the strange thing about it: Denmark has no net foreign debt. I don't know about Norway, but with their oil and all I can only assume that they're pretty well off too.