NationStates Jolt Archive

I always people claiming that soldiers are heros, and it really get on my nerves because really, they aren't. "But they're keeping our country safe, I guess you don't like freedom!" Actually, they're off "liberating" other countries at the moment. I wonder, who is the bigger hero--the doctor that goes to work in the hospital every day and saves lives, or the soldier that carries a gun arround?

People in the medical profession, here, and in the armed forces, are the real heros, IMO.

Don't you agree?

I agree. I still respect and admire the troops, though, even if I despise their cruddy commander-in-chief.

They're both just doing jobs, it's not like either went into their respective positions without knowing the requirements.

I put nurses above doctors.

I put ordinary charitable, friendly and helpful people above them all.

I'm still on top of course.

I'm still on top of course.

*snickers* I bet you are. hehehe. :p

*snickers* I bet you are. hehehe. :p

As a true hero I get to choose, as an utterly mind-boggling hero I give my choice away :)

I always people claiming that soldiers are heros, and it really get on my nerves because really, they aren't. "But they're keeping our country safe, I guess you don't like freedom!" Actually, they're off "liberating" other countries at the moment. I wonder, who is the bigger hero--the doctor that goes to work in the hospital every day and saves lives, or the soldier that carries a gun arround?

People in the medical profession, here, and in the armed forces, are the real heros, IMO.

Don't you agree?

can i say one thing?
my son is 19 and is still covered in pimples,as were all his classmates.he has no clue about the world,did you at 19?i thought i did,but i did not.
he is going "there" in september in september,it makes me sick to my stomach,if you saw my son with children,he has not a mean bone in his body,but i fear what will come back,and you blame him..how about bush and cheney...and the fucking crazy fucks that flew planes into a building full of innocents...my kid joined cause his familty was military,he has no clue what he is doing,only that the country supposedly needs him,and like any teenager,he will go and think he is doing the glorious thing(probably to get laid)and has no clue what he is doing.
you want to blame someone,blame all the heads of state,not just bush but tghe asshole in tehran,i dont care,i want my son to come home healthy and not mentally destroyed....your wrong to say what you did,they are kids that know no better fighting for men that should no better.

But the military keeps those other countries from raiding our homeland and making off with big bundles of our freedom!

can i say one thing?
my son is 19 and is still covered in pimples,as were all his classmates.he has no clue about the world,did you at 19?i thought i did,but i did not.
he is going "there" in september in september,it makes me sick to my stomach,if you saw my son with children,he has not a mean bone in his body,but i fear what will come back,and you blame him..how about bush and cheney...and the fucking crazy fucks that flew planes into a building full of innocents...my kid joined cause his familty was military,he has no clue what he is doing,only that the country supposedly needs him,and like any teenager,he will go and think he is doing the glorious thing(probably to get laid)and has no clue what he is doing.
you want to blame someone,blame all the heads of state,not just bush but tghe asshole in tehran,i dont care,i want my son to come home healthy and not mentally destroyed....your wrong to say what you did,they are kids that know no better fighting for men that should no better.

You're wrong to say I'm blaming anyone for the war.

This is about who the real heros are.

can i say one thing?
my son is 19 and is still covered in pimples,as were all his classmates.he has no clue about the world,did you at 19?i thought i did,but i did not.
he is going "there" in september in september,it makes me sick to my stomach,if you saw my son with children,he has not a mean bone in his body,but i fear what will come back,and you blame him..how about bush and cheney...and the fucking crazy fucks that flew planes into a building full of innocents...my kid joined cause his familty was military,he has no clue what he is doing,only that the country supposedly needs him,and like any teenager,he will go and think he is doing the glorious thing(probably to get laid)and has no clue what he is doing.
you want to blame someone,blame all the heads of state,not just bush but tghe asshole in tehran,i dont care,i want my son to come home healthy and not mentally destroyed....your wrong to say what you did,they are kids that know no better fighting for men that should no better.

You read a lot of things into Ruffy's post that simply weren't there to begin with.

Actiually Ruffy, I agree with you. I spent a year in Iraq, and 99.9% of the troops aren't heroes. They're just regular guys and gals doing a job that sucks immensely. Those troops that are heroes deserve to be recognized as such, but the vast majority of us aren't. And honestly, all this talk about us being heroes makes me extremely uncomfortable.

Some soldiers are heroes. Some doctors are heroes. Enlisting in the armed forces or getting a medical degree doesn't make you one just as simple as that. Every one of us dedicates our lives to some idea or purpose, and helps other people in some way, even if it's just doing others' laundry or cleaning teeth, that's what I think. Many occupations involve opportunities for heroes to make a difference, and medicine and the armed forces are about equal in that, I think.

I guess it would defend on how you define hero. I see a hero as a person who puts his or her life on the line for others. That would be police (some), firefighters, military - anyone who goes in harms way for the benefit of others (this would include some teachers!). This does not include football players, baseball players and sports figures in general.

A doctor is a hero if he saves a life; as a soldier am allowed to say that a soldier is a hero if he dies for country.

A hero is different for many people.

Being in the military, the police or the medical profession doesn't make one heroic. Risking life and limb to help others does. So anyone can be a hero. I think the firefighters as a whole are the most heroic bunch as it is practically impossible to do the job properly without putting yourself to risk.

I would put the RNLI slightly above both of them

I don't believe anyone is a hero based on their profession. I very much doubt that most people who do medicine and join the military do so to help people. They do it for much more selfish reasons like money and adventure.

I was once told by a doctor, who judges medical school applicants, that he would always choose the person who chooses medicine for the "prestige, power and money" rather than the "chance to help people". At least the first applicant is more honest

Well sure being a soldier is a good career, but it shouldn't be elevated to hero status as it is in many countries, and I think the soldiers themselves would be the people saying their not heroes.

I think the person trying to live on 6 dollars a day, working long hours with barely any property in a trailer park - against a never ending capitalist system just to survive are the true Heroes.

Hail to them.

I would put the RNLI slightly above both of them

I agree. Going out in stormy weather to save the lives of strangers WITHOUT getting paid is pretty brave or even heroic.

I don't agree that being in any frontline service automatically means you are a hero. if you do something special and selfless within that service then by all means consider yourself heroic

Well sure being a soldier is a good career, but it shouldn't be elevated to hero status as it is in many countries, and I think the soldiers themselves would be the people saying their not heroes.

I think the person trying to live on 6 dollars a day, working long hours with barely any property in a trailer park - against a never ending capitalist system just to survive are the true Heroes.

Hail to them.

You can be a hero for doing something just to benefit yourself? Wow

I always people claiming that soldiers are heros, and it really get on my nerves because really, they aren't. "But they're keeping our country safe, I guess you don't like freedom!" Actually, they're off "liberating" other countries at the moment. I wonder, who is the bigger hero--the doctor that goes to work in the hospital every day and saves lives, or the soldier that carries a gun arround?

People in the medical profession, here, and in the armed forces, are the real heros, IMO.

Don't you agree?

Ahhh fine topic!

It's a double edged sword for me. I see the nesecity of maintaining armed forces, I can even agree that some armed conflicts are the only way to resolve things, and I'll go as far as to say that fine soldiers do a fine job at soldiering.

Yet I know and have known many many soldiers, and I didn't like a single one of them. They are on the whole aggresive bully boys, prone to starting fights. The ex soldiers do not cope well with civy life, and maintian the sort of mindset that a proffesional soldier needs.

I lay the blame for this on the goverment, for inadiqute de-briefing measures.

A hero is the random girl who runs into a burning building and saves most of her family. A hero is a 60-year-old man who keeps a deranged man safe as a subway rides two inches over them.

Heroes are people who do something truly great for mankind on any scale for no other motivation than that it was the right thing to do. Anyone can be a hero.

The troops are doing a hard job.

I happen to think educators are heroes. And for all people who can't wait to make snide remarks -- you abdicate your responsibilities and put them into our sole care for six hours or more a day to raise, don't you?

I happen to think educators are heroes. And for all people who can't wait to make snide remarks -- you abdicate your responsibilities and put them into our sole care for six hours or more a day to raise, don't you?

Well, they are heroes. People who advance knowledge and bring it to others, from teachers and professors to scientists and engineers, are all heroes. They invest untold amounts of energy and time in to shaping minds for the future and bringing them all of the benefits and responsibilities of learning...that makes them the stewards of society itself.

Without educators, we would be nothing.

A hero is someone who does some extraordinary act of selflessness for no other reason but they believed it had to be done. So are soldiers and doctors heroes? They can be, but so can a phone technician or a college professor.

I would consider the soldier who challenges a superior's direct order, if that soldier knew that order was immoral an/or illegal, a hero. A soldier who rapes and kills civilians, I would not consider a hero.

I would consider a doctor who would fight hospital and HMO bureaucrats in order to get a patient the treatment they needed, a hero. I would not consider a doctor who took "bribes" from pharmaceutical companies in return for "suggesting" certain drugs to patients who did not need them, a hero.

It's not what you do, it's what you do.

The troops are doing a hard job.

I happen to think educators are heroes. And for all people who can't wait to make snide remarks -- you abdicate your responsibilities and put them into our sole care for six hours or more a day to raise, don't you?

It's an admirable job and not an easy one but hard work doesn't = hero

Without educators, we would be nothing.

And without bin men we would have a major public health crisis and educators wouldn't seem as important at the time. Almost everyone plays an important role in society. We're all cogs in the machine and all that.

Who's the real hero?

G.I. Joes are the REAL American heroes...

It's an admirable job and not an easy one but hard work doesn't = hero

Right, well, we never put ourselves in danger for others, we never protect our students' lives, what was I thinking. :rolleyes:

Right, well, we never put ourselves in danger for others, we never protect our students' lives, what was I thinking. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure if you're saying that you do that and should therefore be considered heroic or that you think i'm saying that only those who protect others from danger are heroic?

The troops are doing a hard job.

I happen to think educators are heroes. And for all people who can't wait to make snide remarks -- you abdicate your responsibilities and put them into our sole care for six hours or more a day to raise, don't you?


If that is the way that teachers really do see their job then that is most regretable, and no wonder our education system is up shit creek.

For the record, myself and my wife are soley responisble for the raiseing of our children. You are resposible for the education of them(well a certian type of education) and for sure you ARE responsible for their safety while they are at school.
For if that was not the case, if I couldn't be sure that my children would be looked out for, then I would drag them outa school soooooo fast their friends would just be a blur to them.

I actualy agree though, educaters can certianly be hero's, the good ones, who don't seem down on thier jobs, the ones that work in conjunction with the parents, these people are heros.

So which type are you?

I voted other. Why? Because it's all a matter of perspective, and I suppose they were all "real heroes" in their own little way, though I may not approve of the Second Gulf War...

Combat Medics. *nod*

......ummm.............

BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he's the real hero

Definition of hero http://www.answers.com/topic/hero

There are multiple definitions (see link). I, myself, prefer the definition of hero as a person who risks his/her life for others, but the word covers a lot.

Heroes.

Teachers
Firefighters
Nurses
Doctors
Military
Police
Mothers
Fathers
Everyday people trying to live with integrity in a world that does not value integrity

Not heroes

Kobe Bryant
Barbra Streisand
Ted Kennedy
Most sports figures, actors, politicians and religious leaders

the real hero is GW Bush. Without him the soldiers wouldn't have any wars to go be heros in and doctors wouldn't be able to practice their love with women all across this great country.

the real hero is GW Bush. Without him the soldiers wouldn't have any wars to go be heros in and doctors wouldn't be able to practice their love with women all across this great country.

Wut?

If that is the way that teachers really do see their job then that is most regretable, and no wonder our education system is up shit creek.

For the record, myself and my wife are soley responisble for the raiseing of our children. You are resposible for the education of them(well a certian type of education) and for sure you ARE responsible for their safety while they are at school.
For if that was not the case, if I couldn't be sure that my children would be looked out for, then I would drag them outa school soooooo fast their friends would just be a blur to them.

I actualy agree though, educaters can certianly be hero's, the good ones, who don't seem down on thier jobs, the ones that work in conjunction with the parents, these people are heros.

So which type are you?

Ask my students. I doubt you'll hear anything about me being down on the job, or being mean to them (except in the expecting them to meet deadlines unless there's a reasonable reason to the contrary), or that I'm not available to them for academic or personal reasons, or that what we do in class is boring/irrelevant/politically biased.

And there are plenty of parents I've contacted, several times, who've told me that from 7:45-2:30, their kids and the kids' behavior/academic performance is solely my problem. So what kind of parent are you?

I'm not sure if you're saying that you do that and should therefore be considered heroic or that you think i'm saying that only those who protect others from danger are heroic?

Actually, yes, that's what I am saying. Plenty of us have personally put our safety on the line for our students, and plenty of us have personally protected them from harm -- sometimes from their own families' abuse.

Actually, yes, that's what I am saying. Plenty of us have personally put our safety on the line for our students, and plenty of us have personally protected them from harm -- sometimes from their own families' abuse.

Then you are a hero for doing that not because of your career choice but because of your personal actions

My issue with this has to do with the generalisation that someones career choice can make them a hero.

The real heros are priests. A doctor can cure us, but they cannot cure our souls. Soldiers can protect us, but they cannot protect us against Satan.

Yet if a priest absolves our sins, and gives us the Eucharistic Lord, and then we "die," then we shall never die, but shall have life everlasting.

For this purpose, priests give up their entire lives. They never marry, and they strive against the flesh and against society for the good of souls. They, like Jesus, offer their lives up in sacrifice for the flock.

I always people claiming that soldiers are heros, and it really get on my nerves because really, they aren't. "But they're keeping our country safe, I guess you don't like freedom!" Actually, they're off "liberating" other countries at the moment. I wonder, who is the bigger hero--the doctor that goes to work in the hospital every day and saves lives, or the soldier that carries a gun arround?

People in the medical profession, here, and in the armed forces, are the real heros, IMO.

Don't you agree?

Yeah. Especially after watching MASH, you get that feeling. But I respect the troops, even though President Bush should have his head stuck in a toilet and left there.

I believe in heroic acts. Not heroic jobs.

Who's the real hero?

Not me. I'm a fake one.

Depends on the person.

You could have a soldier simply doing his job, a soldier who enjoys violence, or a soldier who truly wants to protect his country and liberate people.

Similarly, you could have a doctor simply doing his job, a doctor who's out for profit and success at any risk, or a doctor who truly wants to dedicate his life to saving lives.

And the one's who are just doing their jobs could be amazing people still.

And people doing "worthless" jobs could also be amazing people still.

It's not the professions that matter, it's intentions and actual characters.

It's not the professions that matter, it's intentions and actual characters.

Yeah, the intentions...

The real heros are priests. A doctor can cure us, but they cannot cure our souls. Soldiers can protect us, but they cannot protect us against Satan.

Yet if a priest absolves our sins, and gives us the Eucharistic Lord, and then we "die," then we shall never die, but shall have life everlasting.

For this purpose, priests give up their entire lives. They never marry, and they strive against the flesh and against society for the good of souls. They, like Jesus, offer their lives up in sacrifice for the flock.

Can't anyone act in the place of a priest? I've heard that anyone can baptise someone, but I'm not sure about confessions.

And I'm reasonably sure that priests don't absolve your sins. God does, and the priest acts as his mouthpiece.

They don't seem all that heroic when anyone can take their place.

-snip-
I'm a she :P

The real heros are priests. A doctor can cure us, but they cannot cure our souls. Soldiers can protect us, but they cannot protect us against Satan.

Yet if a priest absolves our sins, and gives us the Eucharistic Lord, and then we "die," then we shall never die, but shall have life everlasting.

For this purpose, priests give up their entire lives. They never marry, and they strive against the flesh and against society for the good of souls. They, like Jesus, offer their lives up in sacrifice for the flock.

Oh bullfuckingshit! A priest--and almost every other religious figure for that matter--is the exact opposite of a hero! They don't "save our souls!" They give us a way to deny reality, to refuse to face the facts of our lives, that there is no God or afterlife, that life is exactly what it is and that there is nothing better waiting for us. They give us a reason to justify being stupid and hateful of others, to look down upon them as if they were trash when really they're just other human beings.

No, the real heroes are the educators, the doctors, and anyone else who manages to save lives and make them better.

who manages to save lives and make them better.

Aye.

pushing through ignoring everything thus saving time reading this thread...

I think the best heroes are a combination of the two, you' know those Combat medical technicians there the ones you ladies should be throwing your panties at ;):p

either way saying who is and isn't a hero is stupid and plain asshaterry

You read a lot of things into Ruffy's post that simply weren't there to begin with.

Actiually Ruffy, I agree with you. I spent a year in Iraq, and 99.9% of the troops aren't heroes. They're just regular guys and gals doing a job that sucks immensely. Those troops that are heroes deserve to be recognized as such, but the vast majority of us aren't. And honestly, all this talk about us being heroes makes me extremely uncomfortable.

It's annoying when officers who spend a year in Kuwait or in Bahrain get medals "cause they served in Iraq". Dumb B***s, they didn't even set foot in Iraq.

I think it depends. What soliders are we talking about?

The ones who hit Normandy in June '44, or the ones in Iraq who are on trial for gang-rape and murder??

What doctors are we talking about, too?

My definition of a hero is someone who takes great personal risks to help others.

Soldiers do it (at least those who are in combat positions). Most doctors don't. They're still great people, but they don't take personal risks.

However, some heroes are greater than others. Medics and doctors who risk their lives going to third-world countries are big-time heroes.

I always people claiming that soldiers are heros, and it really get on my nerves because really, they aren't. "But they're keeping our country safe, I guess you don't like freedom!" Actually, they're off "liberating" other countries at the moment. I wonder, who is the bigger hero--the doctor that goes to work in the hospital every day and saves lives, or the soldier that carries a gun arround?

People in the medical profession, here, and in the armed forces, are the real heros, IMO.

Don't you agree?

why must one be a 'Bigger' hero. both of them, including the police officer, the Fire-fighter, heck, even the man walking down the street can be called heros.

Four men jump into the Ala Wai Canal to rescue driver (http://www.khon2.com/news/local/7922092.html) and if you know how polluted the Ala Wai is, it makes what these 4 men do even more incredible.

It's not a contest to see who's got the bigger medals.

Can't anyone act in the place of a priest? I've heard that anyone can baptise someone, but I'm not sure about confessions.

And I'm reasonably sure that priests don't absolve your sins. God does, and the priest acts as his mouthpiece.

They don't seem all that heroic when anyone can take their place.

Only a bishop can ordain a priest or another bishop, and only a priest can absolve sins, say mass, and perform last rites.

the real hero is GW Bush. Without him the soldiers wouldn't have any wars to go be heros.if wars makes heroes.. then yes, Bush is the biggest hero of them all :D

Four men jump into the Ala Wai Canal to rescue driver

"The Nissan truck just missed Crites Kharmen Ghia,"

Oh, thank heavens. ;) It's VW Karmann Ghia btw.

"sideswiped Hicks' BMW and a van and somehow dodged three poles and a tree."

The Tree Did Not Comment. The Poles Are Celebrating.

Seriously though, cheers for the rescuers. Opportunities present themselves if you have what it takes to be a hero. And it's great that there were four heroes amongst the witnesses.

i would say the real hero's are the people who take the risk of being honest when there are vested interests against their doing so.

you know, that speaking truth to power bussiness.

well people who save lives are of course hero's too.
not just by fighting fires or stopping people from killing each other,
but feeding and sheltering the homeless. i think that's a pretty heroic thing to do. especially when you consider, maybe you don't realize, all of the obsticals that are set in the path, in the way, of doing so.

people who go to jail for being honest, in a culture that insists on a degree of dishonesty. and i'm not talking so called third world dictatorships here, although i reallize of course it happens there too. happens everywhere to some degree.

but especially people who are ragged on for their honesty, usually by so called conservatives, in places that make a big deal out of how free these places, the so called developed world, like america and elsewhere in it, pretend to be.

=^^=
.../\...

Ask my students. I doubt you'll hear anything about me being down on the job, or being mean to them (except in the expecting them to meet deadlines unless there's a reasonable reason to the contrary), or that I'm not available to them for academic or personal reasons, or that what we do in class is boring/irrelevant/politically biased.

And there are plenty of parents I've contacted, several times, who've told me that from 7:45-2:30, their kids and the kids' behavior/academic performance is solely my problem. So what kind of parent are you?

Ahhhh heh good call!

I am one of these parents that work closely with the schools that both of my children attend, go to every parent evening, and demand from my children good curtieus behvoiur whiule they are at school.

Can't anyone act in the place of a priest? I've heard that anyone can baptise someone, but I'm not sure about confessions.

And I'm reasonably sure that priests don't absolve your sins. God does, and the priest acts as his mouthpiece.

They don't seem all that heroic when anyone can take their place.

Depends which absurd religion you follow.

Only a bishop can ordain a priest or another bishop, and only a priest can absolve sins, say mass, and perform last rites.

Ohhh so when you say priests you mean only Christian priests. Sorry no hero's amongst that lot.

As others before me have said, it's not about the job you have, but what you do when you're in a situation where you can help someone at a risk to yourself.

If a soldier runs and hides and lets a family burn to death in their homes he is not a hero. If a thief performs first aid on a person that he finds on the street while fleeing from the police, I would say that he was a hero, since he sacrificed his own freedom to save another person. The more you risk to save another, the greater the hero you are. A man that pulls a family out of a car that is about to explode would be an even greater hero than the thief, since he was not only risking his freedom, but his life.

Being a soldier is a job, and is in no way heroic in itself. A soldier does have a larger chance of getting the shot at being a hero, since they're more likely to be involved in situations where they might have to put the life of others ahead of their own. People that help the homeless I would not call heroes, they're probably nice people, but without the risk element I personally can't call anyone a hero. Calling nice people heroes just diminishes the word hero.

As for priests being heroes, no, just no. A priest might be a hero, but then again, a priest might also be a child molester.

Ohhh so when you say priests you mean only Christian priests. Sorry no hero's amongst that lot.

He means Catholic priests.

Don't you realize that velociraptors are doctors and soldiers?

Ohhh so when you say priests you mean only Christian priests. Sorry no hero's amongst that lot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe
NOT because he was a priest. Because he gave his life to save another.
Please refrain from generalizations. They are stupid. Generally speaking.

I say the Doctor is the Hero, because Soldier's kills people, and Doctor's Save people! Does'ent Hero's save people not kill!

from:
The emperor of Armengeddon

I say the Doctor is the Hero, because Soldier's kills people, and Doctor's Save people! Does'ent Hero's save people not kill!

from:
The emperor of Armengeddon

Unless the docs name is Harold Shipman or for that matter any other doctor who accidentally causes the death of their patient through incompetence or simple human error

Merriam-Webster:An illustrious warrior
http://happycarpenter.blogs.com/the_happy_carpenter/images/1stsgtkasal.jpg
In a fire fight in a house in Fallujah, although wounded by seven 7.62 mm AK-47 rounds and hit by more than 40 pieces of hot shrapnel from a grenade while using his body to shield an injured fellow Marine, Kasal refused to quit fighting and is credited with saving the lives of several Marines during the U.S. assault on insurgent strongholds in Fallujah in November 2004.

By the time he was carried out of the house by LCpl. Chris Marquez and LCpl. Dan Shaffer, Kasal had lost approximately 60 percent of his blood.[1]

The photograph of Kasal, taken by photographer Lucian Read — blood soaked and still holding his pistol — being helped from the building by fellow Marines, has become one of the iconic pictures of the war.



A Hero in my book is anyone who sacrifices for the good of all. So of course Marines and the rest of the Armed forces, in my opinion, win out over doctors. Forget about Iraq and consider our Praetorian Role, because you don't have to go to Iraq to have your body destroyed.. Hump or carry twice your weight on monthly 12 mile nature walks for 4 years.. If you had an arch in your foot to begin with I bet it will dissapear pretty quickly.
I don't think you all, along with alot of my other counterparts, realize everything that goes into being in the Military. You all think you do, and fuckin say it, but do you? The time away from the family (missing first words, missing first steps), the long days (4:50am to 6pm) with the PT in between (4-7 mile runs every other morning) wherever it may be spent (in the Mosquito infested fields of Camp Lejeune or the huge sandbox that is Iraq) and the conditions of those places inwhich we spend our enlistment. Let us not forget, the FREEDOM that we give up which our American counterparts use to bitch, whine, complain, malinger, and sit on their ass wasting away in front of American Idol with. Don't be mistaken in thinking these things we do are not optional "Private Smith" could say "fuck it" anytime, go to the brig for a few months and be free in a year vice 4-5 years (of being what hes told). I personally, take very seriously, my pledge to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and do my job to the best of my ability for my country and countrymen (who CHOSE to follow me)..
Of course Doctors give up alot also, with the many years of schooling and all, but thats why they will continue to be reimbursed exponentially to the amount of us [Americans] who choose to eat themselves to death. Doctors for what they do, and the amount of hours they put in are reimbursed handsomely. Can you say the same of those in the Armed Forces? I guess if im going to go to bed tonight, to get up tomorrow for PT, I should wrap this up.. Think about what "Doctor Kahn" lays down to sacrifice when he goes to unclot your Fathers fat filled heart and then think about everything 1st Sergeant Kasal was putting on the line when he went to go pull that Marine out. You don't have to get back to me on that one.. You can take your definition of "Hero" and apply it anywhere else besides me.. I don't get anything out of being called a "Hero". I am a Husband to a GREAT WIFE :fluffle: (a true PRIZE and a Father to a RESPECTFUL child. That's where I garner my pride..
If you are going to consider me anything consider me a great Dad, a exceptional Marine, and a TRUE WARRIOR (a patriot) :headbang::sniper::sniper::headbang:...

For me it involves choice.

If you have a choice to do something that will help others at a great risk to your self then that is being a hero.

eg the recent attempted bombings in London. One guy dismantled a bomb. He didn't have to, his job was to get people out of the area (he just happens to have been a cop) but as there were several attempts to detonate the bomb he decided to dismantle it.

He's not a hero for being a cop, he is for putting himself in danger to stop other people being hurt.

I happen to have a couple of medical conditions and occasionally people do the "you must be brave" routine - bollocks, I'm not brave, I don't have a choice.

For my mind one thing is for certain, kicking a football around a field does not make you a hero.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Kolbe
NOT because he was a priest. Because he gave his life to save another.
Please refrain from generalizations. They are stupid. Generally speaking.

Ohhh handbag! Personal opinion, subjective reasoning and all that. Is it heroic to lay down your life for another?

Yeah I guess it is, ohh and the word is generalisation!:eek:

Personal opinion, subjective reasoning and all that.
If you wrote "no heroes among taxi drivers" it would be just absurd, but in case of priests it's personal opinion? :rolleyes:

Yeah I guess it is, ohh and the word is generalisation!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Generalization
Not my fault that the English native speakers can't agree on one spelling.

If you wrote "no heroes among taxi drivers" it would be just absurd, but in case of priests it's personal opinion? :rolleyes:


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Generalization
Not my fault that the English native speakers can't agree on one spelling.

Nope not at all. It is my personal opinion that the Christian church is hokey, that the Bible is full of holes, and thus the keepers of the faith, either are stupid, or delibratly lie to their flock.

If you personal opinion is that mine personal opinion is absurd, so be it, I can cerrtianly live with that.

Ohhh and I'm English so the S is correct and the Z, well thats a totaly differant language.

And just to clarify, there are certianly heros amongst taxi drivers, but not a single one amongst the bus drivers.

I say the Doctor is the Hero, because Soldier's kills people, and Doctor's Save people! Does'ent Hero's save people not kill!

from:
The emperor of Armengeddon

however, when the Doctor saves your life, you have to PAY him. The soldier gets a small bonus but that is included in your taxes already, so you end up not paying more. :p

however, when the Doctor saves your life, you have to PAY him. The soldier gets a small bonus but that is included in your taxes already, so you end up not paying more. :p

Not if you live in the UK!

For my mind one thing is for certain, kicking a football around a field does not make you a hero.

I marvel how people define heroes as someone who bravely rescues people from great physical harm. What of other Heroes that inspire others to better their lives, and to strive to accomplish their dreams with no 'Danger' involved.

A football player who mentors a child can inspire that child to better his/her life. That player would be a hero.

A person who donates her time and money to assist a family in need is a hero.

A Teacher who gets students enthused about learning can be a hero.

So yes, even a Priest, Father, Iman, Rabbi, Etc... who helps others better their lives are heroes.

Not if you live in the UK!
True, your taxes pay for ALL your medical bills. so I stand corrected. :D

Nope not at all. It is my personal opinion that the Christian church is hokey, that the Bible is full of holes, and thus the keepers of the faith, either are stupid, or delibratly lie to their flock.
No heroes among the stupid?! OUTRAGE! I'm with stupid.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb115/nipeng_bucket/hero.jpg

If you personal opinion is that mine personal opinion is absurd, so be it, I can cerrtianly live with that.
"You fell into the stereotyping trap.
You suffer 15 point of credibility damage, sprain your logic and lose your argument.
It is dark in here."

And just to clarify, there are certianly heros amongst taxi drivers, but not a single one amongst the bus drivers.
At last we agree on something.

No heroes among the stupid?! OUTRAGE! I'm with stupid.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb115/nipeng_bucket/hero.jpg

Sooo I guess you'd say that 'hero's is as hero's does' then?


"You fell into the stereotyping trap.
You suffer 15 point of credibility damage, sprain your logic and lose your argument.
It is dark in here."

Ahhh but you see there is no such a thing. Sterotyping is an accepted norm for us human beasts, we all do it, and I would argue that there is nowt inherently wrong in doing so.


At last we agree on something.

Sweet!

Sooo I guess you'd say that 'hero's is as hero's does' then?
Yes - anyone can be a hero.

Both groups of people merely do their jobs, the professions that they are trained for.

I would say that a doctor who abandons the nice things in life and goes to work for MSF/DWB or a similar organization is a hero, because he goes so far above and beyond the ordinary expectations of his profession, and does so at great cost to himself.

A soldier who does something extraordinary is also a hero, who puts his life into special jeopardy to save others.

If I *had* to pick one or the other as more 'heroic,' it would be soldiers though.

They, especially in the last half century, have repeatedly been sent out to die in places they shouldn't be, and sacrificed themselves in the name of duty and the country. Doctors are almost never called upon to endure this.

Both groups of people merely do their jobs, the professions that they are trained for.

I would say that a doctor who abandons the nice things in life and goes to work for MSF/DWB or a similar organization is a hero, because he goes so far above and beyond the ordinary expectations of his profession, and does so at great cost to himself.

A soldier who does something extraordinary is also a hero, who puts his life into special jeopardy to save others.

If I *had* to pick one or the other as more 'heroic,' it would be soldiers though.

They, especially in the last half century, have repeatedly been sent out to die in places they shouldn't be, and sacrificed themselves in the name of duty and the country. Doctors are almost never called upon to endure this.

You ever heard of MASH units? The doctors have to work with people dropping bombs in the background, and on people who shouldn't be there. Someone in my dad's medical practice served at a MASH in Vietnam. Must have been terrifying.

You ever heard of MASH units? The doctors have to work with people dropping bombs in the background, and on people who shouldn't be there. Someone in my dad's medical practice served at a MASH in Vietnam. Must have been terrifying.

I'd consider them to be members of the military in that capacity, for the purposes of this comparison.

Why would anyone want their profession to be regarded as a heroic one? It just introduces the danger of that profession introducing arrogance to itself. I much prefer the way the medical profession works now as opposed to the pre-Shipman days when the doctor was always right, etc

I'd have to say soldiers. Doctors are too greedy these days, charging outrageous fees that drive up the costs of health care so they can live in mansions with Rolls-Royces. Soldiers, on the other hand, go in knowing they'll get maybe enough to put themselves through graduate school, and they risk life and limb.

(US) Doctors are too greedy these days, charging outrageous fees that drive up the costs of health care so they can live in mansions with Rolls-Royces. I agree.

This is about who the real heros are.some one almost sure to lose his life, fighting -for his ideals- against a much superior military force.

http://www.anecdotage.com/pics/tankman.jpg

Who's the real hero?

This guy. (http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2007/200707/20070706/article_322303.htm)

To be a hero you have to go above and beyond. A cop who stops an armed robbery isn't a hero, they're doing their job. A cop who saves a metric fuckload of people at grave risk to their own life on the other hand makes it into hero territory. The soldier who carries his wounded buddy through hostile territory or who tells his CO "No Sir, I will not obey an illegal order. You can court marshal me, you can shoot me, but you have ordered me to do something that is a violation of international law and I will not comply." THEY are heroes not the average grunt with a gun. The average grunt with a gun is just doing his job. A doc who does an impressive bit of surgery is also just doing his job (even if he does his job very well) add the impressive bit of surgery to a situation where the docs life is on the line THEN you get a hero.

Can't anyone act in the place of a priest? I've heard that anyone can baptise someone, but I'm not sure about confessions.

And I'm reasonably sure that priests don't absolve your sins. God does, and the priest acts as his mouthpiece.

They don't seem all that heroic when anyone can take their place.

Act as a priest? Hell, anyone can be one. Heard of the Universal Life Church? Besides, we're all popes anyway.

Only a bishop can ordain a priest or another bishop, and only a priest can absolve sins, say mass, and perform last rites.

Sorry bud, as a reverend of the Universal Life Church I have that authority too. As a Discordian I can also ordain saints.

Depends which absurd religion you follow.

Only the absurdest for me.

I marvel how people define heroes as someone who bravely rescues people from great physical harm. What of other Heroes that inspire others to better their lives, and to strive to accomplish their dreams with no 'Danger' involved.

A football player who mentors a child can inspire that child to better his/her life. That player would be a hero.

A person who donates her time and money to assist a family in need is a hero.

A Teacher who gets students enthused about learning can be a hero.

So yes, even a Priest, Father, Iman, Rabbi, Etc... who helps others better their lives are heroes.

Rescuing people is the easiest to come up with good examples for. There are other possible examples, but in my book yours don't cut it. Unless something meaningful is risked or sacrificed your examples are very good people, as a matter of fact I use my authority as pope to declare each and every one of them a saint, but they aren't HEROES.

"You fell into the stereotyping trap.
You suffer 15 point of credibility damage, sprain your logic and lose your argument.
It is dark in here."

Help! A grue is munching on my toes!

Right, well, we never put ourselves in danger for others, we never protect our students' lives, what was I thinking. :rolleyes:

I'm speaking AS ANOTHER EDUCATOR HERE. When one of us actually does something like that (and I wish I was confident enough in the human race to think that we all would) then that educator is a hero. This does not mean that ALL educators are heroes.

Actually, yes, that's what I am saying. Plenty of us have personally put our safety on the line for our students, and plenty of us have personally protected them from harm -- sometimes from their own families' abuse.

That is heroic (assuming you actually risked something to do so, otherwise it's "just" the right thing to do). It has nothing to do with your being an educator except that your being an educator allowed you to be in the position to do the right thing in the first place.

You know, there are a lot of soldiers who are heros. But the notion that slapping a uniform on automatically confers this status is rediculous. Should I feel more respect for the guy getting a free college tuition for working as a boiler technician in the bowls of the USS Rustbucket than the person working their way through college asking "Do you want fires with that?"

Hell, in some neighbourhoods the kid at McDonalds is far more likely to stare down a guy with a gun than many service personel.

I mean, are the Veterans of Abu Ghraib heros?

Get serious!

"They protect us!!!"

Yeah, well so does the bouncer at the club. When was the last time you heard people gushing about the heroic bouncers?

There is NO professional group that deserves such a blanket designation.

I prefer to reserve that for the individual who demonstrates their deserving it. I'll give it to the guy who steps in and stops a mugging. The person who makes an individual effort tries to save another - usually without full training or a support team backing them up.

A lot of military people no doubt DO step up to the plate and deserve that accolade. But I'm not going to tarnish their deserved accolades by lumping in the second leuitenant who is "heroicly" managing the proper operation of the pentagon photocopiers. Because that would be insulting.

In the entire history of the Victoria Cross (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_cross) there's only been three recipients who have won it twice (out of 1352):
A Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noel_Godfrey_Chavasse), another Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Martin-Leake) and a Captain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Upham).

Take from that what you will.