NationStates Jolt Archive

just read an article about a drug they use for amnesia.i can barely pronounce it let alone spell it..propellone or some such name.
but the gist of the article was that it erases bad memorys when you used it with other stimuli.
they have verified it works with mice and rats with electro stimulation.
they have also used it on rape victims,on a trial/placebo test and seems to work.
my question is not about drugs,as i have seen anti depressants work with good effect on friends with mad disorders.
i dont want to debate the fact that drugs can help or hurt/mask problems.
my question is,say this drug can basically make you forget about a traumatic exsperiance,which is what they claim,and it affects your brain chemistry,serototin and what not,so you forget a traumatic event.
is that good?
i imagine it would help alot of people with anxiety issues and panic issues,let alone ptsd,and other issues,( i know if i did not have a certain event in my life on a bridge,i would not have a phobia about bridges,which seriously inhibits my travel..lol)
my point is,is this the right thing?does not our life exsperiances create who we are,and is it correct to alter that,cause we are then altering our lifes path?
if i did not have the issue i have now with bridges,my life would be easier for sure,but it is also what made me who i am,should i alter that?
it is a vexing question to me,i want to be normal and not afraid of bridges,but maybe i am afraid for a reason that will dictate a different path in my life,and to alter that thru chemistry has me a bit wary.
i believe in god and gods plan for us all,and i think this could alter my path,i dont judge others that want relief,not at all,but for me i have misgivings.

dont think i am deeply religous,i am not,i believe in a higher power,but this is not about religion or faith.it is if you want,about destiny and fate,if you alter your life,does it effect you.
if a chemical can make you a different person,is it worth it?or should you walk the coarse you have been givin?
should you erase a bad memory that has made you who you are,or should you just trudge along?
i find it an interesting question.
it could change you,but is it for the best?

Well, myself, I don't do drugs at all. Except speed; all good muslims take speed. That's why they fast.

tough one. I would like to live without my bad experiences..but if I did..I wouldn't be the person I am today.

Well, myself, I don't do drugs at all. Except speed; all good muslims take speed. That's why they fast.

Pure genius. You get plenty of butt secks :fluffle:

just read an article about a drug they use for amnesia.i can barely pronounce it let alone spell it..propellone or some such name.
but the gist of the article was that it erases bad memorys when you used it with other stimuli.

Oh, I know that one, it's called...

Dammit, I can't remember.

tough one. I would like to live without my bad experiences..but if I did..I wouldn't be the person I am today.

that i think was what my point was,it is a truly troubling question to me,i side on having my bad exsperiances,it did make me the mess i am..lol...but it also made me alot of good things that i think i am.
my kids had a hard life,but they are exceptional people,maybe they would not be if they lost the memory of how life was?
thanks for an honest answer

For the record, the drug in question does NOT "erase" your memory. It eases the intensity of the memory so that you are not traumatically haunted by it.

Researchers discovered that memory is intensified by the release of adrenaline, which is why we tend to remember exciting or traumatizing memories so vividly. Because our bodies react to sudden stress by releasing large amounts of adrenaline, our memories of such moments can be incredibly vivid and intense even years later. In the worst cases, the memories are so strong that they haunt our minds unbidden, driving victims to post-traumatic stress disorder or causing intense anxiety and depression.

Propranolol blocks receptors in the brain that receive adrenaline, so if you take it shortly after a traumatic experience it prevents the "solidification" of the memory. It has also been found that if you call up that memory later--even years later--while taking the drug, it can still be effective in reducing the intensity of the memory.

To reiterate: it does NOT "erase" memories. It does NOT cause "amnesia" of any sort. Patients who use the drug will not "forget" what happened to them. They can discuss it lucidly, indeed very clearly, but without the intense recollection of the emotions that have been damaging their lives.

For the record, the drug in question does NOT "erase" your memory. It eases the intensity of the memory so that you are not traumatically haunted by it.

Researchers discovered that memory is intensified by the release of adrenaline, which is why we tend to remember exciting or traumatizing memories so vividly. Because our bodies react to sudden stress by releasing large amounts of adrenaline, our memories of such moments can be incredibly vivid and intense even years later. In the worst cases, the memories are so strong that they haunt our minds unbidden, driving victims to post-traumatic stress disorder or causing intense anxiety and depression.

Propranolol blocks receptors in the brain that receive adrenaline, so if you take it shortly after a traumatic experience it prevents the "solidification" of the memory. It has also been found that if you call up that memory later--even years later--while taking the drug, it can still be effective in reducing the intensity of the memory.

To reiterate: it does NOT "erase" memories. It does NOT cause "amnesia" of any sort. Patients who use the drug will not "forget" what happened to them. They can discuss it lucidly, indeed very clearly, but without the intense recollection of the emotions that have been damaging their lives.

thank you for a very informative post.
i did not say it was used to treat anything other then amnesiacs,which it seems to help.they just happened to fing it blocked out some trauma,i have no idea if it works,and i am not a nuerlogist(sp)but it seems to be helpful in dealing with trauma victims.
my point was a hypothetical,if it worked to block past trauma events,and it was effective,would you want to lose past memories of said trauma,or does it make you who you are today?
one can argue,that one needs to confront their past in therapy to move forward,but if you can erase the past,and it gives relief..is that a good thing or is it bad?
thats the question,i am not a therapist so i asked here,do you think it would be good to block out past events,or just deal with them,you seem to be intelligent and i would appreciate your opinion.

Not really sure what I think about it at the moment, but one article that mentions it:

http://www.livescience.com/health/070702_bad_memories.html

Interesting stuff.

If the drug just decreases the intensity of a memory, but doesn't affect my recall, I wouldn't mind using it...

If it did erase memories... well, its hard to say when I might want to use that one, guess I'll know when I actually want to... =P

Perhaps it could be a choice matter, give people a choice on whether they want to use it or not... And make it a crime to administer it without personal consent...

Nice links, nice topic too =)

An interesting hypothetical case: The boss of these researchers finally decides to shut down the project after some days of indecision. The head researcher gets mad and shoots a dose into his boss. Now his boss changes his mind and continues the project and doesn't remember the bit about the head researcher... Is this a crime, if there are no laws for such a drug yet? Should it be a crime?

If the drug just decreases the intensity of a memory, but doesn't affect my recall, I wouldn't mind using it...

If it did erase memories... well, its hard to say when I might want to use that one, guess I'll know when I actually want to... =P

Perhaps it could be a choice matter, give people a choice on whether they want to use it or not... And make it a crime to administer it without personal consent...

Nice links, nice topic too =)

An interesting hypothetical case: The boss of these researchers finally decides to shut down the project after some days of indecision. The head researcher gets mad and shoots a dose into his boss. Now his boss changes his mind and continues the project and doesn't remember the bit about the head researcher... Is this a crime, if there are no laws for such a drug yet? Should it be a crime?

sorry about the link thing,i am way to drunk to try and cut copy and paste..my bad.
i will in the am if i have time.

I cannot reach an informed opinion; in fact, you couldn't without polling hundreds of psychologists, and medical practitioners, and even people who have been helped by this form of mind manipulation.

However, in an attempt to help you find a way to form your own opinion on the subject, perhaps an argument from particular perspectives is in order.

If you are one to believe that equal opportunity, and individual freedom is more important than any other issue, you would probably lean to the treatment being a good idea. Probably in this case, where those who are treated are rape victims or those who have suffered an equally traumatic event, it would be better to have more choices in the matter. Of course with new treatment one must take caution to its consequent side effects, and efficiency (will it work?). But if you can prove that this technique is beneficial to those who desperately need help - do it.

If you are one to believe that the more traditional ways of life constitute how one should live their life, perhaps more of the religious type, you would probably disagree with the idea. You are now changing who you are for some incident you actually can get over. Look at those who have been raped, and then look at the statistics of those who commit suicide; people learn to deal with it over time. You can be treated normally, but instead you choose to partake in a treatment that is completely unneccessary; what is the difference between this and complementary healthcare? Isn't this some kind of mind plastic surgery? Could it be used this way, a little nip-tuck, for all those who can afford it? In some situations, one might say you are giving up to the evil that caused you such grief. It is also a manipulation of the human body that is medically uncertain; each one of us was born with a brain, the most spectacular, complex, and unknown organ in the human body - God knows what might happen to you after the treatment. Memory, personality, intelligence, creativity, spirituality (define the word how you wish) all make up who you are, and you are jeopardising this on a treatment that statistics say you probably do not require. Is this treatment not only ethically wrong, but also stupid? Forget changing one's DNA; this could be the first step to making the most perfect person - through the mind. And to promote that, is simply unforgivable.

I think if you were a psychologist, or medical practitioner, and assuming the treatment was legal and helpful, he or she would offer it. However there are medical guidelines, and of course the doctor would have to consult these to know on what sort of situation he could offer this treatment. I am sure that if this treatment was experimental, the only chance it would be used was if the medical condition of the patient was at such a state where death was to occur without intervention. How often would such a case happen? Watch House.... it happens every week!

I hope this helped, though I am sure my analysis is faulty, and too simple :p. I am also sure that the nuance of the debate of whether this treatment is ethical is far greater than I imagine. However, there is no harm in seeing what I think people will think, haha. As you are an intelligent person, as I can tell from you asking questions, and on a topic that is quite interesting, I am sure I won't have to remind you that your opinion should be your own, and to simply take sides on any parts that I have written would be foolish. See how I did that - oh how condescending, and arrogant I can be. Anyhow, listen and read other peoples thoughts, and form your own ideas. Be an individual!

What? Why are you sorry for? There's nothing wrong with the link...

technically, yes, i guess (if i understand your question right). if one uses an external stimulus to change their person - the way they think, feel, or memories for example - then that stimulus is indeed changing who you are, naturally. but then that's kinda stating the obvious isn't it? ;)

i've been using antidepressants for a year or so now due to social anxiety and clinical depression. i don't believe the drugs have changed who i am, more just allowed me to become again who i was before the disorders changed me in the first place.

Well, myself, I don't do drugs at all. Except speed; all good muslims take speed. That's why they fast.

That was so terrible, I think you gave me cancer!
:p

And on OP : long as they're not super addictive, i'm all for 'em.

An interesting hypothetical case: The boss of these researchers finally decides to shut down the project after some days of indecision. The head researcher gets mad and shoots a dose into his boss. Now his boss changes his mind and continues the project and doesn't remember the bit about the head researcher... Is this a crime, if there are no laws for such a drug yet? Should it be a crime?

Since the drug doesn't make you forget anything that wouldn't happen, but there doesn't need to be new laws if they did, that's assault.