NationStates Jolt Archive

This is the great debate where I live. I will bring up the major points, and then give my opinion on them all. Then I want to hear ya'll talk about it. If you have other issues, feel free to bring them up, but try to keep the discussion focused on the three main points. Also, keep the flaming to a maximum of ZERO! If you have a problem with this discussion or those in it then LEAVE! I WILL report you to the mods.

1. Can Texas lawfully leave the USA?
2. Could Texas support itself on its own?
3. What would the USA do about it?

1. Yes. First, Texas was illegally annexed in 1845. There was no treaty between Texas and the USA before the annexation, which is neccessary before a nation can annex another nation. Also, it violated Texas' treaty with Mexico. Even still, in 1861, Texans voted four-to-one to leave the Union. Because of this, they qualify as a "nation under foreign occupation." This means that they are not leaving the union so much as throwing off their foreign invaders.

2. Yes. Texas has one of the largest GDP's in the world, and once not a member of the US, will have less of a bad rap around the world. They will be able to get better deals with other nations as such. Texas will also be able to take more drastic measures against Illegal Immigration, ones that people outside of Texas fail to see as neccessary because they don't have to live with it on a daily basis. (On a sidenote, a pizza chain in Dallas now accepts pesos! Arrggghhh!) Much of the US's armed forces come from Texas, and Texas is industrialized enough to support them. Texas produces oil, machinery, food, everything neccessary for a nation. Foreign governments would aid Texas, and Texas would be able to withstand the pressure put out by the US government. And if we want to go way back, Texas could try and hold France to their treaty (not that they could do much).

3. I don't know. I assume some diplomacy would be in order. I doubt the US would attempt to attack them, and risk having another civil war, but I suppose it is possible. I think the US would shut down trade and put up high tariffs towards Texas to put as much pressure on them as possible to come back.

I ain't touchin' this with a ten foot pole

2. ... Texas ... once not a member of the US, will have less of a bad rap around the world. They will be able to get better deals with other nations as such.... (On a sidenote, a pizza chain in Dallas now accepts pesos! Arrggghhh!)
I dunno, Texas is a leading contributor of the US's bad rep.

Also what is so bad about accepting the peso? Is cultural imperialism only good when it is American/Texan?

1. Can Texas lawfully leave the USA?
2. Could Texas support itself on its own?
3. What would the USA do about it?

1. Yes. First, Texas was illegally annexed in 1845. There was no treaty between Texas and the USA before the annexation, which is neccessary before a nation can annex another nation. Also, it violated Texas' treaty with Mexico. Even still, in 1861, Texans voted four-to-one to leave the Union. Because of this, they qualify as a "nation under foreign occupation." This means that they are not leaving the union so much as throwing off their foreign invaders.

There's de jure, and de facto. I'm not gonna argue the jure, but the facto the matter is that seceeding from the US is historically not a wise maneuver.

2. Yes. Texas has one of the largest GDP's in the world, and once not a member of the US, will have less of a bad rap around the world. They will be able to get better deals with other nations as such. Texas will also be able to take more drastic measures against Illegal Immigration, ones that people outside of Texas fail to see as neccessary because they don't have to live with it on a daily basis. (On a sidenote, a pizza chain in Dallas now accepts pesos! Arrggghhh!) Much of the US's armed forces come from Texas, and Texas is industrialized enough to support them. Texas produces oil, machinery, food, everything neccessary for a nation. Foreign governments would aid Texas, and Texas would be able to withstand the pressure put out by the US government. And if we want to go way back, Texas could try and hold France to their treaty (not that they could do much).

What makes you think leaving the US will improve Texas's foreign relations? That's just silly. Bush is from Texas. As you point out, many American arms (that have historically wound up in the hands of terrorists and insurrectionists and revolutionaries and murderers and dictators) are made in Texas.

And few foreign governments are willing to make a stand (against the USA no less) against national sovereignty.

California alone has more GDP than Texas, and with our beneficial immigration policies we will hardly need the other 48 states to reclaim the Texan Secessionists. Though those will help, because most of us in California are too busy making money to mess with Texas.

As to your side note: A business accepts.... *gasp*... CURRENCY? That's terrible.


3. I don't know. I assume some diplomacy would be in order. I doubt the US would attempt to attack them, and risk having another civil war, but I suppose it is possible. I think the US would shut down trade and put up high tariffs towards Texas to put as much pressure on them as possible to come back.

And since Texas would be building walls on it's borders and in general being hostile to immigration, it'll only worsen Texas's problem. As for civil war... with just Texas against the rest? Not much of a war, really. More like Waco.

1. Yes. First, Texas was illegally annexed in 1845. There was no treaty between Texas and the USA before the annexation, which is neccessary before a nation can annex another nation.

Care to expound on that?

once not a member of the US, will have less of a bad rap around the world.

That's rather doubtful. When I lived in France last spring the Texans at my university had a very hard time of it with the French. They associate Bush with Texas and everything Bush stands for with Texas, deservedly or not.

I dunno, Texas is a leading contributor of the US's bad rep.

Also what is so bad about accepting the peso? Is cultural imperialism only good when it is American/Texan?

I was under the impression that Kansas and Utah were tied for the leading contributor.... :confused:

oughta bomb it back to the stone age...

oh wait...my old man lives there....make it the iron age ;)

I was under the impression that Kansas and Utah were tied for the leading contributor.... :confused:
They are up there too, but Texas has Bush.

I dunno, Texas is a leading contributor of the US's bad rep.

Also what is so bad about accepting the peso? Is cultural imperialism only good when it is American/Texan?

The thing is, the dollar (not the peso) is the legal tender of the US.

I dunno, Texas is a leading contributor of the US's bad rep.
Exactly. The world would see just how bad Texas is, and as a result you may see the opposite. The US's rep would go up, while everyone wants nothing to do with you.

Also what is so bad about accepting the peso? Is cultural imperialism only good when it is American/Texan?
He hates everything Mexican I guess.

The thing is, the dollar (not the peso) is the legal tender of the US.
We can use the American dollar just about anywhere in the world, whats the big deal about someone paying in Pesos? Its not like they pay less.

And how is Texas bad?

The thing is, the dollar (not the peso) is the legal tender of the US.
People accept cheques and they aren't the legal tender, neither is debt or credit cards. People should be able to accept what they want in regards to tender as long as they include the legal tender.

The thing is, the dollar (not the peso) is the legal tender of the US.

Let's not have that thread again.

But speaking of currency, what would the Republic Of Texas do on that front?

Let's not have that thread again.

But speaking of currency, what would the Republic Of Texas do on that front?

Establish their own like most nations?

And how is Texas bad?
They're part of the bible belt. Most of the civilized world has dislike for America because of our bible belt (the decisions they force us to make). How would they feel about a country that is the embodiment of the bible belt?

Every state/province/canton/region/whatever deserves the right to secede, provided they are not seceding for the purpose of exploiting others.

They're part of the bible belt. Most of the civilized world has dislike for America because of our bible belt, how would they feel about a country that is the embodiment of the bible belt?

Well, thats your own religious/political beliefs. I happen to love the Bible Belt cause they believe in what I believe in. But if you're liberal/ atheist than I could see why you would hate it. But for people like me, IE Conservative/Christian, its good. So its really your own viewpoint.

Well, thats your own religious/political beliefs. I happen to love the Bible Belt cause they believe in what I believe in. But if you're liberal/ atheist than I could see why you would hate it. But for people like me, IE Conservative/Christian, its good. So its really your own viewpoint.
Your views are almost a minority in a America, and they are unheard of in the places Texas would be seeking help from. Most places outside of America are secular, and I don't think many places have an agenda of backing a theo-con nation.

They're part of the bible belt. Most of the civilized world has dislike for America because of our bible belt (the decisions they force us to make). How would they feel about a country that is the embodiment of the bible belt?

The Bible Belt doesn't FORCE you to do anything. Other states outside of it still have to vote for the issue as well. Don't blame your problems on the Christians. If you want to start dissing religions, then get out. And the civilized world doesnt dislike specific sectors of america any more than the rest.

Your views are almost a minority in a America, and they are unheard of in the places Texas would be seeking help from. Most places outside of America are secular, and I don't think many places have an agenda of backing a theo-con nation.

I do realize that. But then again, I assume they would have Freedom of Religion, so while Christianity would dominate issues, it wouldn't have, say, a forced effect upon other nations like a Iran or Italy during the crusading period.

The Bible Belt doesn't FORCE you to do anything. Other states outside of it still have to vote for the issue as well. Don't blame your problems on the Christians.
Clearly furthering the theo-con agenda was the work of Atheists and Muslims.

If you want to start dissing religions, then get out.
Religion would play a role in how Texas would perform once they seceded. Now why can't I discuss how it would play a role?

And the civilized world doesnt dislike specific sectors of america any more than the rest.
Thats not what I hear from people in the UK and Canada.

I do realize that. But then again, I assume they would have Freedom of Religion, so while Christianity would dominate issues, it wouldn't have, say, a forced effect upon other nations like a Iran or Italy during the crusading period.
If Christianity dominated issues people would still have freedom of religion, but Christianity would be pushed everywhere. Schools, government, public, businesses.

And how is Texas bad?

Let's see... theocracy, racism, people shooting each other, no health care for the poor, disastrously poor education... do you need anything else? And I speak as someone who has a wife from Texas and who will be living there (due to her terror of flying), not as someone who has just read the headlines.

If Christianity dominated issues people would still have freedom of religion, but Christianity would be pushed everywhere. Schools, government, public, businesses.

That's true but we are not discussing what effect it would have inside the country, but what effect it would have on other countries.

They're part of the bible belt. Most of the civilized world has dislike for America because of our bible belt (the decisions they force us to make). How would they feel about a country that is the embodiment of the bible belt?

Your views are almost a minority in a America, and they are unheard of in the places Texas would be seeking help from. Most places outside of America are secular, and I don't think many places have an agenda of backing a theo-con nation.

Wait, you just contradicted yourself. If we are the minority, then how do we force you to do anyhting? Unless I'm mistaken, we live in a republic where every state's representatives can vote. And if they aren't voting the way you wanted them to, well, then why did you elect them?

Let's see... theocracy, racism, people shooting each other, no health care for the poor, disastrously poor education... do you need anything else? And I speak as someone who has a wife from Texas and who will be living there (due to her terror of flying), not as someone who has just read the headlines.

I'll give you racism.

But "People shooting each other" This isn't the wild west. People shoot each other in other states, too.

As for no health care for the poor. Do you mean welfare? Because last time I checks this country didn't have an NHS to pay for health insurance for the poor.

I don't live there so I cannot say how bad their education is. I do know that my state has worse.

People accept cheques and they aren't the legal tender, neither is debt or credit cards. People should be able to accept what they want in regards to tender as long as they include the legal tender.

Checks, debit, and credit cards can be redeemed for their value in legal tender. There's no exchange rate to worry about.

As far as people accepting whatever currency they want, that's fine, as long as I'm not accidentally given change back in the foreign currency (I already have enough foreign coins as it is, and no bank I've been to will convert them, as the US equivilant is too small).

Let's see... theocracy, racism, people shooting each other, no health care for the poor, disastrously poor education... do you need anything else? And I speak as someone who has a wife from Texas and who will be living there (due to her terror of flying), not as someone who has just read the headlines.

Theocracy? That's not true in the least.

Racism? Ok, I'll concede you that.

People shooting each other? That happens everywhere, not just Texas.

No health care for the poor? I don't know much about that so I won't challenge you.

Disastrously poor education? Are you kidding? Dallas has 2 schools in the top 10 in the Nation. Rice is one of the new Ivy league colleges. UT, A&M, UTD are all some of the best public colleges in the US. In the Dallas area there is near 10 school districts ranked in the top 100 nationally.

Texas... Right On! We Rock!
Not-with-standing the Clown named Bush
We Texas are mighty Friendly
The word Texas is Indian for Friendly
Even the Mexicans like Texas
Accept for Farmers Branch Texas We are not as immigration un-friendly as California
Many of us, including myself, are Hispanic Americans and love Texas; The USA; and Mexico
Many of us Bilingual Texans recognize this attribute as an asset not an un-American attitude
Come to Texas
Especially Austin ~ The self-proclaimed live music capital of the World
You will love us

PS Most of us drive cars and don't carry guns any more ;p

Viva Tejas!!!

PSS None of us want to leave The USA
The so-called racism is mostly contrived relative to other places in the USA

1. Can Texas lawfully leave the USA?
2. Could Texas support itself on its own?
3. What would the USA do about it?


1. No

2. No, See: USAF, USMC, US Army, USN.

3. Kill a lot of the traitors, beat down their revolt, reinstate legitimate authority.

Wait, you just contradicted yourself. If we are the minority, then how do we force you to do anyhting? Unless I'm mistaken, we live in a republic where every state's representatives can vote. And if they aren't voting the way you wanted them to, well, then why did you elect them?
It doesn't take the majority to get a theo-con in power, just some very powerful lobbying.

2. No, See: USAF, USMC, US Army, USN.

2. Yes, but aren't a lot of those soldiers from Texas...

3. Kill a lot of the traitors

Self-determination = treason?

Well, thats your own religious/political beliefs. I happen to love the Bible Belt cause they believe in what I believe in. But if you're liberal/ atheist than I could see why you would hate it. But for people like me, IE Conservative/Christian, its good. So its really your own viewpoint.

I am both Christian (although, I guess you fundies would disagree. Y'all have a bad track record when it comes to your attitude towards Catholics (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Klan-in-gainesville.jpg)) and conservative (in the actual, "don't mess with others, so we don't have to mess with you" sense of the ideal, not the bullshit "we'll control your lives and wiretap you so you don't interfere with our ability to control your lives and wiretap you" sense American Conservatism has today), and no, the Bible Belt is not good.

It's so cute that you fundies think you're Christian. I don't think I have ever heard of anything as un-Christian as religious fundamentalism.

Self-determination = treason?

AMU-

wach nta maghribi?

2. Yes, but aren't a lot of those soldiers from Texas...

Not nearly enough to beat the ones that aren't, or even the loyal Texans who would resist the traitors and uphold their solemn oaths.

I am both Christian (although, I guess you fundies would disagree. Y'all have a bad track record when it comes to your attitude towards Catholics (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Klan-in-gainesville.jpg)) and conservative (in the actual, "don't mess with others, so we don't have to mess with you" sense of the ideal, not the bullshit "we'll control your lives and wiretap you so you don't interfere with our ability to control your lives and wiretap you" sense American Conservatism has today), and no, the Bible Belt is not good.

It's so cute that you fundies think you're Christian. I don't think I have ever heard of anything as un-Christian as religious fundamentalism.

Your calling me a fundie? Obviously you don't know me. Talk to me first before making accusations.

The Bible Belt doesn't FORCE you to do anything. Other states outside of it still have to vote for the issue as well. Don't blame your problems on the Christians. If you want to start dissing religions, then get out. And the civilized world doesnt dislike specific sectors of america any more than the rest.
If you can't stand religions getting dissed, either find a different forum or grow some skin.
Your calling me a fundie? Obviously you don't know me. Talk to me first before making accusations.

You're calling me a liberal and atheist? Obviously you don't know me. Talk to me first before making accusations.

Your calling me a fundie? Obviously you don't know me. Talk to me first before making accusations.
Its a logical conclusion. As a matter of fact, its the only conclusion.

1. You say you agree with the bible belt
2. You call yourself a Christian/Conservative

I haven't met someone who wasn't a fundie who said that.

Its a logical conclusion. As a matter of fact, its the only conclusion.

1. You say you agree with the bible belt
2. You call yourself a Christian/Conservative

I haven't met someone who wasn't a fundie who said that.

Well, whats your definition of a fundie? I may meet it.

Your calling me a fundie? Obviously you don't know me. Talk to me first before making accusations.

P.S., you say you like the Bible Belt, yet you're not a fundie.

The Bible Belt is an informal term for an area in which socially conservative Christian Evangelical Protestantism (AKA, fundies) is a dominant part of the culture.

So you enjoy being an outsider in your own town?

If you can't stand religions getting dissed, either find a different forum or grow some skin.


You're calling me a liberal and atheist? Obviously you don't know me. Talk to me first before making accusations.

I dont think you are either of those. I know from Wandy you aren't.

I am both Christian (although, I guess you fundies would disagree. Y'all have a bad track record when it comes to your attitude towards Catholics (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/af/Klan-in-gainesville.jpg)) and conservative (in the actual, "don't mess with others, so we don't have to mess with you" sense of the ideal, not the bullshit "we'll control your lives and wiretap you so you don't interfere with our ability to control your lives and wiretap you" sense American Conservatism has today), and no, the Bible Belt is not good.

It's so cute that you fundies think you're Christian. I don't think I have ever heard of anything as un-Christian as religious fundamentalism.

Its a logical conclusion. As a matter of fact, its the only conclusion.

1. You say you agree with the bible belt
2. You call yourself a Christian/Conservative

I haven't met someone who wasn't a fundie who said that.

You do realize that fundies only make up a small percentage of the bible belt, right? Also, I am a christian, a southern baptist if you want the denomination, and I tell you I'm not a fundamental, and neither is anyone in my church. And GTR, i agree with you about the conservatism issue. I think you'll find that most people in the "Fundamentalist Bible Belt" do too, but we always end up with leaders like Bush. The only reason the Republican Party still gives him any support is because they would look like fools if they didn't. Call me a fundie if you want, i don't care. But I also pull for socialized healthcare, so I guess that puts me out of your category now doesn't it.

I'snt George Bush from Texas? (Just to clarify, I was talking about the current President of the United States and his origin, why could you want to succeed the US if a Texan is running the country anyway?)

I dont think you are either of those. I know from Wandy you aren't.

Well, thats your own religious/political beliefs. I happen to love the Bible Belt cause they believe in what I believe in. But if you're liberal/ atheist than I could see why you would hate it. But for people like me, IE Conservative/Christian, its good. So its really your own viewpoint.

I'm not saying it was a definite accusation. But you definitely made the logical implication. And you definitely said that I was not conservative (although, I guess by America's standards, I'm not a conservative. I already went over this...), and that I was not Christian, from your statement that the Bible Belt is good for Christian conservatives, when it is certainly not good for me.

I don't know why Chris would know that I'm not a liberal or atheist. I don't think I've ever talked about religion with him, and we both advocated socialism when we first met... I don't think we've talked politics in a long time.

I'snt George Bush from Texas? Says it all really...

IYO.

I'snt George Bush from Texas? Says it all really...

Nope, he's from Connecticut, actually. ;)

so what were looking at is a nation that would see enemies all around, have a rampant military, do bible-belt things and have access to a considerable nuclear arsenal, oh joy:rolleyes:

but hey at least you get to pin your problems on dem illegal Amerikanz as well!!!!

Anyway, I am off to play some games. Thanks for the debate guys. If anyone wants to continue debating privately you can TG me.

P.S., you say you like the Bible Belt, yet you're not a fundie.



So you enjoy being an outsider in your own town?

Conservative doesnt mean fundamentalist. If it does then you have too broad a definition.

Besides, the Bible belt is way over emphasized. In my town alone we have about 9-10 different religions with multiple centers...

You do realize that fundies only make up a small percentage of the bible belt, right? Also, I am a christian, a southern baptist if you want the denomination,

a) It's called the Bible Belt because of the dominance of Christian Fundamentalism. I've lived in the Bible Belt. I know fundies don't make the majority, but they are a large group, with lots of control in the south.

b) I was born in Florida during the days that the SBC was blowing up abortion clinics. While they're not fundamentalist, they are just as bad.

and I tell you I'm not a fundamentalist, and neither is anyone in my church. And

I will acknowledge that there are moderate members of the SBC.

GTR, i agree with you about the conservatism issue. I think you'll find that most people in the "Fundamentalist Bible Belt" do too, but we always end up with leaders like Bush.
Funny how that works out.
The only reason the Republican Party still gives him any support is because they would look like fools if they didn't.
I'm sure that's a logical fallacy of some sort.

"In order to not look like idiots, let's support on idiot."
Call me a fundie if you want, i don't care.
'k.
But I also pull for socialized healthcare, so I guess that puts me out of your category now doesn't it.
So you don't want to pay as much for your health care. Who doesn't?

Texas could very easily be its own country, we just couldnt elect people as stupid as george bush.

Texas has the resources and the means by which it could support its self,

Now if the U.S. would let it? I highly doubt it.

Traitors:

http://www.pecos.net/news/images/rick.gif

http://www.historyplace.com/lincoln/lincpix/lee.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/C007803/image/jefferson_davis.JPG

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Ronbo/rosenbergs.jpg

http://www.ftedward.com/History/OldFort/Images/arnold.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2002/0205/hanssen0507.jpg


Let me introduce you to some friends from Lake City Missouri:

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/ammo/M118-762mm-long-rangeLg.jpg

Traitors:

http://www.pecos.net/news/images/rick.gif

http://www.historyplace.com/lincoln/lincpix/lee.jpg

http://library.thinkquest.org/C007803/image/jefferson_davis.JPG

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Ronbo/rosenbergs.jpg

http://www.ftedward.com/History/OldFort/Images/arnold.jpg

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2002/0205/hanssen0507.jpg


Let me introduce you to some friends from Lake City Missouri:

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/ammo/M118-762mm-long-rangeLg.jpg

So... was there a point to any of this? Or are you just spamming images?

SNIP

yeah those traitors with there self determination, you should wave your made in China flag at them!

seriously its ridicules how a modern nation (or at least a nation that calls itself such) can use the idea of chaining people to a state or nation

Let's see... theocracy, racism, people shooting each other, no health care for the poor, disastrously poor education... do you need anything else? And I speak as someone who has a wife from Texas and who will be living there (due to her terror of flying), not as someone who has just read the headlines.
You miss their primary fault: they force their cheerleaders to wear more clothing than any more person would allow.

seriously its ridicules how a modern nation (or at least a nation that calls itself such) can use the idea of chaining people to a state or nation


And?

It isn't out of a love of the absurd that countries value and work to maintain their sovereignty. If you think it is ridiculous, you are in a very small and very impotent minority.

Also, those of you who think that george bush is from texas are wrong, he was born in New Haven, Connecticut.

Also, those of you who think that george bush is from texas are wrong, he was born in New Haven, Connecticut.

No no, don't you see, he is "new englander by birth - Texan BY DE GRACE UV GAWD!

I wouldn't mind Texas leaving the union.

And?

that puts you in the nice little club with such savory characters as Russia, which is oddly fitting

It isn't out of a love of the absurd that countries value and work to maintain their sovereignty. If you think it is ridiculous, you are in a very small and very impotent minority.

succession isn't a threat to sovereignty, in fact how on Earth could it be? and no the civilized world isn't a minority unless Scottish nationalists are beaten by police in our streets or something

that puts you in the nice little club with such savory characters as Russia, which is oddly fitting



succession isn't a threat to sovereignty, in fact how on Earth could it be? and no the civilized world isn't a minority unless Scottish nationalists are beaten by police in our streets or something

1) Lincoln, moreso.

2) If you don't get it, you certainly won't come to your senses on my account.

So USA should invade Texas later, steal all the oil and leave the place a big mess like it does with other dissenting nations?

First of all texas seceding would be a bad idea on thier part but then they are known for bad ideas when it comes to leaving control of a another nation like when they left mexico they had to fight a bloody war then we had to fight one just so they could one get away from mexico and then join the US then they tried to leave the US with some other states but this time they lost the war.If they tried to leave a second time other nations wouldn't help them the US would try sactuns and if that did not work we'd force them back in.

1) Lincoln, moreso.

ah cult worship of leaders how fitting

2) If you don't get it, you certainly won't come to your senses on my account.

sorry I don't see the logic in classic 1800's patriotism or else! that whole area just reads as ridicules to me

I always thought of Texas as the Oil Belt, not the Bible Belt. :D

Exactly. The world would see just how bad Texas is, and as a result you may see the opposite. The US's rep would go up, while everyone wants nothing to do with you. Sounds good to me!

I agree that Texas should leave the union... Where we will all point to Texas for causing Bush, there by causing Iraq, the UN will slap Sanctions on Texas, and Mexico will invade. We'll adopt Purto Rico as the new 50th state.

So USA should invade Texas later, steal all the oil and leave the place a big mess like it does with other dissenting nations?
Even better. And I think this would be the motto:
"When Texas shuts up, we'll standdown!"

I fully support Texas leaving the Union as that would mean that bush would be removed from office and cheney would get impeached in a week.

I'd rather Georgia seceded. That way we could set it on fire again.

I fully support Texas leaving the Union as that would mean that bush would be removed from office and cheney would get impeached in a week.

why would he be removed from office, Bush was born in Connecticut.

(On a sidenote, a pizza chain in Dallas now accepts pesos! Arrggghhh!)

Dude, you do know that it is common practice in border areas of a country to accept currency of a bordering countries, no? It's only good business. You do realize that there ARE tourists who come from Mexico, no? As well as business people who from time to time commute to the US for business? Not to mention returning American tourists who may not have changed their pesos into dollars, as it's a bit of a hassle to change over a relatively small number of pesos for dollars. It's hardly something that makes a great deal of money, but it draw more customers than not doing so. And there is hardly any harm, at all, in doing so.

Really, it's only common practice and good business sense.

I love how people have the impression that all Texans are gun-slinging, zealous cowboys. It's hillarious, considering Austin's tech industry rivals California's silicon valley, and Austin's economy flourishes despite its batshit insane liberal agenda (namely because of the lack of a state income tax).

We also have Ron Paul, who is the one United States Congressman who doesn't happen to be in bed with lobbyists, corporations, the military-industrial complex (Haliburton), and Congressional pages.

http://www.turnleft.com/places/austin.html
http://www.austinaptfinder.com/files/Austin-Moon-2.gif
Austin, TX

why would he be removed from office, Bush was born in Connecticut.

A great deal of his support comes from the South, particularily Texas, which holds a very large number representatives. They make up a little less than 1/10th of the House right now. I'm thinking he was getting at Bush being impeached.

As well, what would happen if a state where the current president were born were to secede? I'm not really sure on the legality of such a situation.

You're exactly right. Bush may have been our governor, but that doesn't mean he's from around here.

And we don't like people that ain't from around here.

Ain't that right, boys?

:sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::upyours::mp5::mp5:

You're exactly right. Bush may have been our governor, but that doesn't mean he's from around here.

And we don't like people that ain't from around here.

Ain't that right, boys?

:sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::sniper::upyours::mp5::mp5:

I almost want to sig this. :p

Nope, he's from Connecticut, actually. ;)

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/EE/images/uploads/birthplace_thumb.jpg

:D

so what were looking at is a nation that would see enemies all around, have a rampant military, do bible-belt things and have access to a considerable nuclear arsenal, oh joy:rolleyes:

but hey at least you get to pin your problems on dem illegal Amerikanz as well!!!!

Oh my! Everyone knows that all Texans are against immigration, especially when it's legal and they aren't drug mules. And we wouldn't want to see any of dem homosexuals a'kissin' eachudder. And boy, howdy, we sure do enjoy that war on drugs. We just love that our repressive drug policies are what cause most illegal immigration, and how billions of dollars escape untaxed onto the black market every year. Oh my, and don't forget, our governor supports little Bushie's national REAL ID cards for everyone. Hell, if he supports it, I'd better do the same. After all, I'm agnostic with Lutheran tendencies, so I must be a fucking idiot. Or better yet a terrorist.

That's okay. We all know people in the UK don't allow their flight attendants to wear crosses. It's not like France's population is overrun with Turkish nationalists (getting close to a majority now, isn't it?) Oh yeah, and then there was the British Empire. If we still have to wear cowboy hats, you've got to take some heat for enslaving half of the world's nations.

Quite frankly many of us Texans were very happy Bush won the Prez as it got him out of our State... we just didn't realize what a disaster he trully was.

I must admit that when it comes to politics we are almost as ridiculous as Louisiana. Additionally, we probably have the greatest population of both Baptist and Catholics (I being the latter). So we're not perfect.

Otherwise Texas is a great place. Eclectic Music; sun; nice Ladies (and men i guess); good schools. Aside from Houston, Dallas and San Antonio a very low crime rate, (Houston, Dallas and San Antonio as top 10 US cities probably are comparable crime wise to other top 10'ers).

Back to the debate. Upon reratification of State's Constitution post Civil War State's acknowledged ultimate authority of our Federal Government. Texas can not succeed nor break into 5 seperate states (as many Texans believe) without permission of the United States.

Additionally, Texas has no inclination of doing such a thing. In these days of National and Global interdependence Texas has more to gain being a part of as opposed to appart from the Government given the vast Federal funds we receive for all sorts of groovy things.

So... I apologize for Georgie Porgie W. Our Bad. And I extend a most gracious invitation to any who would grace our most humble state with your presence.

Adios Amigos

And Far Out

As well, what would happen if a state where the current president were born were to secede? I'm not really sure on the legality of such a situation.

Interesting. I would think that her political enemies would jump all over it. There might be a constitutional case that the president no longer fulfills the requirements set forth by Article II and the succession ammendments.

Interesting. I would think that her political enemies would jump all over it. There might be a constitutional case that the president no longer fulfills the requirements set forth by Article II and the succession ammendments.

Quoted the wrong person.:p

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. However, the President would have been technically born an American citizen, so really it could go either way.

Sounds good to me!

I agree that Texas should leave the union... Where we will all point to Texas for causing Bush, there by causing Iraq, the UN will slap Sanctions on Texas, and Mexico will invade. We'll adopt Purto Rico as the new 50th state.

No, Connecticut was where Bush was born, so they caused Bush. He isn’t a Texan by birth and he didn’t win because of Texas. There were other states caused his win for the second time.

For all of the Texas haters, the Bush family isn’t Texan blood. Prescott Sheldon Bush, the father of the first President Bush, was born in Columbus, Ohio. George Herbert Walker Bush wasn’t even born in Texas, being born in Milton, Massachusetts. George Walker Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut. There isn’t Texan blood flowing in his body, don’t blame Texas for causing Bush. And don’t dare blame Texas for causing the Iraq war as the war could have been stopped form even starting. I think the US had a senate when the whole Iraq war plan started.

Bush will be in office for like another year and a half then we’ll vote somebody else in that will end the Iraq war or try doing it.

Now about the UN slapping Sanctions on Texas is two things. Dumb and crazy as the state of Texas didn’t cause anything like I pointed out. And I find that Mexico invading to be funny for some reason. Anyways, that was my two cents and I’m off of his part of the forum. Have fun, people.

yeah those traitors with there self determination, you should wave your made in China flag at them!

seriously its ridicules how a modern nation (or at least a nation that calls itself such) can use the idea of chaining people to a state or nation

Seriously, maybe you shouldn't throw rocks in a glass house. I use to live in Leeds, England. Now what I witnessed in the United Kingdom was the same damn thing. Oh they are from "Wales":eek: or "Scotland":eek: I even was witness to your so called chaining of people all the way down to cities. Oh they are from "London" or omg they are from "Blackpool". These were grown adults doing this crap. I was laughing about it most of the time.

And the civilized world doesnt dislike specific sectors of america any more than the rest.

That's not true. I've lived overseas for 4 out of the last 7 years, and people do have opinions about specific "sectors" of the United States. People don't see us as some bizarre homogeneous entity called "America".

Also, I've noticed I've had a much easier time abroad when I introduced myself as a Michigander rather than an American.

Additionally, Texas has no inclination of doing such a thing. In these days of National and Global interdependence Texas has more to gain being a part of as opposed to appart from the Government given the vast Federal funds we receive for all sorts of groovy things.

Actually, global interdependence is exactly what would allow Texas to survive as an independent state. Personally, I'd like to see the US become a looser economic and monetary union rather than the leviathan superstate it tries to be.

The thing is, the dollar (not the peso) is the legal tender of the US.

Do stores in Canada accept the Dollar? Do stores near the Canadian border in the US accept Canadian dollars? Yes to both.

They're part of the bible belt. Most of the civilized world has dislike for America because of our bible belt (the decisions they force us to make). How would they feel about a country that is the embodiment of the bible belt?

Texas is hardly considered part of the bible belt anymore. Only most of the hick parts (which are getting smaller as cities grow :D) are considerably like that.

Do stores in Canada accept the Dollar? Do stores near the Canadian border in the US accept Canadian dollars? Yes to both.

Quite honestly you don't seem like the kind of person that I would think would be of this opinion. You seem more like the "Git dem dare Mecksikans oot a' mah Countra!" type person.

Heh.

And regardless, there is no law in the US stating that you can't accept foreign currency.

Up here in Minnesota, for example, we get Canadian money all the freakin time. Hell, most big grocery stores have cash registers that will do the exchange rate for it.

So, like I said, it's common practice.

Texas is hardly considered part of the bible belt anymore. Only most of the hick parts (which are getting smaller as cities grow :D) are considerably like that.
My Aunt's boyfriend would disagree. He works in rural Texas, and says that it is quite ass backwards.

I wouldn't mind Texas leaving the union.

Except the US would lose the state with the second highest GDP, with most of the oil, most of the medical, and almost all of the petrochemical.


I love how everyone uses stupid stereotypes of Texas, and everyone thinks "BUSH! EBIL BUSH!" when thinking of Texas.

Great, popular ex Governor of Florida Jeb Bush, born February 11, 1953 in Midland Texas could be the new first President of the Republic of Texas.

I still wish he were the next President 2008 of the United States of America.

<-------Soldier, not from Texas- would gladly supress an insurrection.

Ever hear of Boeing, Lockheed Martin or Colt Arms? Not in Texas, and name me one major auto manufacturer with a large facility in Texas?

From a military standpoint, Texas would be smoked, thouroughly. :sniper:

<-------Soldier, not from Texas- would gladly supress an insurrection.

<--------- Former soldier, also not from Texas

And just why would you want to suppress an "insurrection"? If the people of Texas voted to leave the US, why shouldn't we let them? If we fought the Texans and made them stay, how would that be any better than what the British were doing in 1776?

<--------- Former soldier, also not from Texas

And just why would you want to suppress an "insurrection"? If the people of Texas voted to leave the US, why shouldn't we let them? If we fought the Texans and made them stay, how would that be any better than what the British were doing in 1776?

A-fucking-men.

*gives you a million cookies*

1. Can Texas lawfully leave the USA?
2. Could Texas support itself on its own?
3. What would the USA do about it?

1. My understanding of international law is vague at best, but I'm pretty sure there's no law against seceding from a country.

2. Yes and no. They would probably have to import food as plants don't grow very well in Texas (FYI if anyone ever makes the claim everything is bigger in Texas, ask to see a tree.) However Texas is still richer than many nations out there, so it could probably be fairly self-sufficient. I'm guessing it would end up being a lot like Saudi Arabia economically. Also, to address somebody's claim earlier. Yes, Texas has a lot of oil (not the most Alaska has that claim), but for the most part that oil is just tapped. They don't use it. We're waiting until everyone else runs out first.

3. This depends. Is Texas seceding alone? If so, it wouldn't last a day. Maybe a week. (Remember the Alamo? Like that, but much larger, without America coming in to avenge it.) Foreign nations wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, because to go against America is to commit economic suicide. Plus the US is a military superpower. As far as I'm aware only China could actually win in a 1-on-1 battle with the US. And that's unlikely. Germany maybe, they have godly industrial power as well. If Texas seceded with the rest of the south, again, we'd have another civil war.

4. Yes. It is bad to be assumed a personality type due to your state. I don't even tell people I'm from Arkansas. Yes I wear shoes, no i don't have any children yet, my parents were not related before they were married, the school I went to was a very good school for being public(Walmart dumps a lot of money into schools in northeast arkansas) Bill Clinton is a distant cousin, though I've never met him, and I personally have no qualms with people of other races (though the world KKK headquarters is about half an hour from here.)

<--------- Former soldier, also not from Texas

And just why would you want to suppress an "insurrection"? If the people of Texas voted to leave the US, why shouldn't we let them? If we fought the Texans and made them stay, how would that be any better than what the British were doing in 1776?

Or what America did in 1861?

<--------- Former soldier, also not from Texas

And just why would you want to suppress an "insurrection"? If the people of Texas voted to leave the US, why shouldn't we let them? If we fought the Texans and made them stay, how would that be any better than what the British were doing in 1776?

We left because we were not fairly represented in the Parliment, last time I checked Texas was fairly represented in Congress. The have no reasonable reason to leave, period.

Or what America did in 1861?

Quite.

We left because we were not fairly represented in the Parliment, last time I checked Texas was fairly represented in Congress. The have no reasonable reason to leave, period.

At the moment, I don't think so either and neither do the majority of Texans. However, that begs the question, who decides what's a reasonable reason? And if you and I don't think its reasonable, but they do, does that give us just cause to bomb their cities and invade?

Texas is free to go. Being one of the redder states, I certainly won't miss them.

Only if Austin can, in turn, secede from Texas and rejoin the Union.

Only if Austin can, in turn, secede from Texas and rejoin the Union.

Therein lies one of many rubs.

Unless every single person in the whole of Texas is in favor of secession, the rest don't have legitimate authority to abridge his rights as an American by telling him he no longer lives in the US, and is no longer guaranteed the government of the US constitution.

3. This depends. Is Texas seceding alone? If so, it wouldn't last a day. Maybe a week. (Remember the Alamo? Like that, but much larger, without America coming in to avenge it.) Foreign nations wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, because to go against America is to commit economic suicide. Plus the US is a military superpower. As far as I'm aware only China could actually win in a 1-on-1 battle with the US. And that's unlikely. Germany maybe, they have godly industrial power as well. If Texas seceded with the rest of the south, again, we'd have another civil war.


What makes you think that in this day and age we would do something as counterproductive as fighting a seceding state rather than setting up free trade agreements?

Ever hear of Boeing, Lockheed Martin or Colt Arms? Not in Texas, and name me one major auto manufacturer with a large facility in Texas?


I belive that Toyota (#1 World Auto Maker) Trucks are made in Texas and while many Fords and Chevys are from Canada and Mexico...

Maybe you need to clean your weapon soilder.

I think the Texas bashers might ought to stay home as they aren't near the hospitable sorts we Cowboys and Vaqueros like to party with.

Well, thats your own religious/political beliefs. I happen to love the Bible Belt cause they believe in what I believe in. But if you're liberal/ atheist than I could see why you would hate it. But for people like me, IE Conservative/Christian, its good. So its really your own viewpoint.

Except your viewpoints, maybe not you personally but those with them, tend to be followed with plenty of "Do as I say, believe as I do! Or we'll kill you! And if not, we'll make it illegal to believe otherwise"

Theocratic governments suck.

Wait, you just contradicted yourself. If we are the minority, then how do we force you to do anyhting? Unless I'm mistaken, we live in a republic where every state's representatives can vote. And if they aren't voting the way you wanted them to, well, then why did you elect them?

The rich and influential are often the minority. They also tend to be the ones with the power to make whatever they say law.

For me, this whole thing hinges on whether or not Seattle grocers will still be stocking Pace Picante.

What makes you think that in this day and age we would do something as counterproductive as fighting a seceding state rather than setting up free trade agreements?

History. We could have just set up free trade agreements with the south instead of having the civil war.

The Bible Belt issue is complete void of any worth. Belts affect AREAS, not entire states. And the Bible Belt barely has a grip on East Texas. Trust me, I'm a liberal college student studying in the East Texas Bible Belt at this very moment. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
I'm also from Austin, and have been to the capital building, numerous times, and seen how little of an affect it has on politics.
Most of the issues that seems to anger everyone are merely situational and taken from the most secluded events. And how do people hear about these events? The media, who specifically chooses to pick out the most heinous of events, and this happens all over the nation. Racism, Violence, and Education don't affect your state? To single out Texas would make you a hypocrite.
Immigration is a big issue in D.C., and not a terribly huge issue in Texas. Just look at San Antonio where Hispanics are the majority. Same with El Paso. And numerous border towns.
But I will concede that our health care isn't too great, especially amongst children. The governor decided it would be a great decision to lower the poverty level, thus putting thousands of children without state-funded health care.

if texas and california both succeeded, seperatelly, but at the same time, i don't think there's anything washington (d.c./the federales), new york and the rest of the eastern seaboard could do about it besides cry. and if niether of us then procceeded to try and tell the rest of the world how to live (the way washington (d.c./u.s.) is doing now), i think a major portion of the rest of the worlds problems would be solved right there, or at least a major impediment to everyone else working things out their own way would then have been removed.

personally i think texas, arazona and newmexico, along with los angalies and that part of california sould be part of mexico, or mexico part of the nation of texas, however you want to say it, so that anyway, the cultures that used to straddle where that border is now before it came along, would then be no longer held devided.

somewhere i heard that california had like the 5th largest economy in the world. larger then most nations. also of course between us we've got the space program and most of the production of military hardware the rest of the nation depends upon, so like i said, if we both succeeded at the same time, even without any sort of treaty aggreement between us, what's running and ruining the u.s. now, would be seriously up the proverbial creek.

whatever idiological differences we might have, i believe we'd both have a shaired intrest in a world not skewed by superpowers.

india, china, europe, california, and texas, would enjoy a nearly equanimous balance of power, and i think we could all get along just fine and not feel like we had to mess with each other.

i think keeping a u.n. would be a good thing, but that it should, would, could then have its own kind of 'district of columbia too' which making it one might be the answer to the israeli/palistinian/oil/et c. problem.

such are fantasies, and personally i'd just as soon NOT see them payed for in blood. but california being california and texas being texas, we could cut off the flow of military hardware to the then former 'u.s.'

it IS a thought.

=^^=
.../\...

People shooting each other? That happens everywhere, not just Texas.

Wrong. Granted it is not unique to Texas, but it does not happen in any other democracy on anything like the scale (about 11000 deaths a year) that it does in the US, and Texas is one of the most gun-loving states in the US.



No health care for the poor? I don't know much about that so I won't challenge you.
My wife is a poor Texan. She lives in a poor rural area. Trust me, they have no health care.


Disastrously poor education? Are you kidding? Dallas has 2 schools in the top 10 in the Nation. Rice is one of the new Ivy league colleges. UT, A&M, UTD are all some of the best public colleges in the US. In the Dallas area there is near 10 school districts ranked in the top 100 nationally.

Again you are confusing the US with the whole world. Also you are confusing the very top with the generality. I have been there, I spent three months in Texas and talk to my wife there every day. Most people in Texas are VERY poorly educated. Ignorance is rife, to a degree that even a poorly educated European (or New Yorker, I suspect) would be horrified by; for instance, I once showed a woman a British banknote and she said "oh, do they have their own money over there?" Now, tell me how well educated she was. Thanks to the theocracy you were unable to dismiss except by saying "is not", large numbers of them actually believe the world is less than six thousand years old. Thanks also to the theocracy of the place, it would be impossible to be elected to anything without loudly declaring your christianity for approval. When I went there, my wife warned me to keep my mouth shut if I didn't want to get shot for my beliefs (there we go, theocracy, people getting shot and lack of free speech in one sentence, all in Texas).


Texas is seen by many Americans of my acquaintance as an embarrassment. Many are horrified that I will be living there. I know NO ONE from Scotland, my birth country, who wants to live there, or actually anywhere else in the US. Some refuse even to visit it. If Texas were an independent republic, it would fall prey to all these diseases and more, and would very quickly find itself a pariah. Mind you, the rest of the US would be grateful, because finally it would not be the most backward "civilised" country on Earth.

That's okay. We all know people in the UK don't allow their flight attendants to wear crosses.
Not true. Flight attendants are not allowed to wear LARGE crosses (or anything else) which hang outside their uniforms and could interfere with the passengers they inevitably have to lean over. Common sense really.
It's not like France's population is overrun with Turkish nationalists (getting close to a majority now, isn't it?)
No, it isn't. And no, it isn't.

Oh yeah, and then there was the British Empire. If we still have to wear cowboy hats, you've got to take some heat for enslaving half of the world's nations.
I'll grant you that one. :D

I belive that Toyota (#1 World Auto Maker) Trucks are made in Texas and while many Fords and Chevys are from Canada and Mexico...

Maybe you need to clean your weapon soilder.

I think the Texas bashers might ought to stay home as they aren't near the hospitable sorts we Cowboys and Vaqueros like to party with.


My bad, I didn't know Toyota started in Texas- or that Canada and Mexico were Texan counties... :rolleyes:

Go home, go back to sleep, and try the day over again.

History. We could have just set up free trade agreements with the south instead of having the civil war.

Believe it or not, but a lot has changed since 1860. War isn't seen (by most) as the best way to settle differences anymore.