NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6254560.stm

Then, as now, immigration was the hot political topic of the day, and Joey had turned up the heat. He had been reported to the authorities for having a sticker on the sliding door of his stall, which featured a picture of an eagle and the phrase: "This is America. Please speak English when ordering."

For some, he had struck a chord, struck a blow for ordinary Americans. For others, this was brazen discrimination.



What do you think? Unreasonable, or even racist? Perfectly allowable? A blow against those who would illegally immigrate?

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

Boy, I'd be screwed if that was a widespread ideal. "This is Luxembourg, please speak Luxembourgish when ordering"

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

I'd say it's reasonable to expect someone to try to speak english when ordering but if they can't then I don't see any problem with just pointing at what you want

I'd be nice if they did or made an effort to read off the menu, or just point to something on the menu.
But this is just (as it is in English) requesting for those whom can understand the sign to speak English. Speaking in the language of the waiter/ress if you can seems to make sense to me.

I've heard this guy on the radio here, and his restaurant is one of those places where there's a long line (apparently he's that good) so to get people in and out as quick as possible, they require the customer to speak English so they can get their order filled as quick as possible and get that guy out the door. It's kinda like the Soup Nazi place on Seinfeld. So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a person to speak English when ordering because hey, he got 500 people waiting for their food and he can't mess around.

No Soup For You!

I've heard this guy on the radio here, and his restaurant is one of those places where there's a long line (apparently he's that good) so to get people in and out as quick as possible, they require the customer to speak English so they can get their order filled as quick as possible and get that guy out the door. It's kinda like the Soup Nazi place on Seinfeld. So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a person to speak English when ordering because hey, he got 500 people waiting for their food and he can't mess around.

How is someone struggling in a language they don't really know even remotely faster?

How is someone struggling in a language they don't really know even remotely faster?

what?

I'd say it's reasonable to expect someone to try to speak english when ordering but if they can't then I don't see any problem with just pointing at what you want

(Agrees)

what?

How fast do you think you could order food if you had to do it in Tagalog?

How fast do you think you could order food if you had to do it it Tagalog?

I think I can do it pretty fast, but of course I speak English so it's not a problem.

I think I can do it pretty fast, but of course I speak English so it's not a problem.

Hmm...I seem to have failed to get my point across. Nevermind then.

I think I can do it pretty fast, but of course I speak English so it's not a problem.

Tagalog is a language

Tagalog is a language

Yea, I did not realize that.

If this fellow has trouble with a language other than english (assuming there's only one language other than English being spoken locally), would it not be more to the point were he to put up a sign indicating that he doesn't speak this other language (more to the point - and perhaps appearing slightly less strident at the same time)? I gather though, that this is not so much a question of being (or not being) accomodating as it is about obstinacy and confrontation.

If this fellow has trouble with a language other than english (assuming there's only one language other than English being spoken locally), would it not be more to the point were he to put up a sign indicating that he doesn't speak this other language (more to the point - and perhaps appearing slightly less strident at the same time)? I gather though, that this is not so much a question of being (or not being) accomodating as it is about obstinacy and confrontation.

Short version: The sign makes him sound like a jackass?

Short version: The sign makes him sound like a jackass?

Yeah, well.

Eh it's his business, and he can refuse service to anyone, and so far it doesn't really seem to be hurting his business.

Boy, I'd be screwed if that was a widespread ideal. "This is Luxembourg, please speak Luxembourgish when ordering"

*applaudes*. What a succinct way of phrasing it. I like it.

I don't see why this "not speaking English" thing would be a huge problem.

It's not like it's hard to learn the sounds to "Give me a fuckin' burger!" :D

How is someone struggling in a language they don't really know even remotely faster?

To be fair, it's still likely to be faster than repeating an order in a language the server doesn't understand. If I worked at a restaurant, and someone came in speaking Tagalong, I'd be totally lost.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to order in English. I do think it is unreasonable to be a dick about it.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to order in English.

Even in a nice fancy french or italian restaraunt?

Even in a nice fancy french or italian restaraunt?

Then it would depend on who works there. If the servers are generally people who speak French or Italian, ordering in those languages is just fine.

This goes for Mexican restaurants as well. In fact, I think ordering in Spanish helps out new servers sometimes, if they are struggling with English themselves.

I'm so going to that place. Hopefully during that NS meetup in Philly. I might also write him a letter of support.

You go to the country, speak its language.

Alot of countries expect you to speak their native language if you go there to try to communicate, they should expect the same.

You go to the country, speak its language.

The US doesn't have an official language and its populace comes from backgrounds speaking all sorts of languages - English, German, Russian, various Native American tongues, various African tongues, Spanish, Italian, French, Arabic, Hindu, etc., etc., etc.

To be fair, it's still likely to be faster than repeating an order in a language the server doesn't understand. If I worked at a restaurant, and someone came in speaking Tagalong, I'd be totally lost.

Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to order in English. I do think it is unreasonable to be a dick about it.

True. It's more the being a dick than anything. Sure, if you get the odd Pinoy here and there, you can simply say you don't understand and perhaps try to work it out. But if this is something happening often enough to warrant a sign about it, he could (and likely has already) easily learn the basic words they use to order. As already said "It's not like it's hard to learn the sounds to 'Give me a fuckin' burger!'". Just translate that into the applicable language.

Alot of countries expect you to speak their native language if you go there to try to communicate.

They don't, actually. Especially people in positions requiring communication. The average Luxembourger knows 2.9 languages, but that'd be distinctly higher for those in various service industries...

True. It's more the being a dick than anything. Sure, if you get the odd Pinoy here and there, you can simply say you don't understand and perhaps try to work it out. But if this is something happening often enough to warrant a sign about it, he could (and likely has already) easily learn the basic words they use to order. As already said "It's not like it's hard to learn the sounds to 'Give me a fuckin' burger!'". Just translate that into the applicable language.

Look, he has no obligation to serve ANYONE. He's clearly got enough business he can deny business to people who choose not to learn how to speak a few words in english without any real damage to his business.

Look, he has no obligation to serve ANYONE. He's clearly got enough business he can deny business to people who choose not to learn how to speak a few words in english without any real damage to his business.

Did I say he couldn't? Calm down. He can decide to only serve people who hop in on their left foot whistlin' Dixie. I'm not about to sue him to take the sign down, I'll just call him a dick for it, if you don't mind.

The vendor has the right to refuse service to anybody he wants to. Maybe it makes him a jackass and all that, but you cant FORCE him to serve food to people he doesnt want to serve food to.
If he wants to only serve people who spasskiya Angleski, thats his profit loss.

Which is not to say that the Mexicans dont have a right to be offended. I was pretty offended when I was in Europe and some snooty Italian guy ignored me because of my accent. I didnt call the police about it, though.

Better yet: "Say it in English or don't say it."

Props to the owner. He's under no obligation to "accommodate" anybody.

This is America. The average American speaks English. You don't go to Africa and expect them to speak French. You don't go to France and expect them to speak Italian. You don't go to Germany and expect them to speak Hebrew.

You don't go to Africa and expect them to speak French.

Depends on where you go in Africa, actually.

You don't go to Africa and expect them to speak French.

In many countries in Africa (Morocco, Senegal, Tunisia, Cote d'Ivoire) French is spoken quite often, as well as the native languages. But I get the point.

This is America. The average American speaks English. You don't go to Africa and expect them to speak French.

Actually, they speak French in a lot of Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multilingual_countries_and_regions

Actually, don't they speak French in a couple parts of Africa?

You get my point. I suppose I should have said "You don't go to Swahili speaking Africans and expect them to speak French."

You get my point. I suppose I should have said "You don't go to Swahili speaking Africans and expect them to speak French."

What are you talking to them for in the first place?

What are you talking to them for in the first place?

...

...

...

Are you serious?

This is America. The average American speaks English. You don't go to Africa and expect them to speak French.

That is possibly the worst example I've ever heard, considering the popularity of French.

You don't go to France and expect them to speak Italian.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised, considering the similarity of the languages, and the fact that multilingualism is promoted in Europe.

You don't go to Germany and expect them to speak Hebrew.
Right, because Germans hate Jews. I GET IT, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!! :rolleyes:

I've got a crazy idea for you all (Well, all those who have been saying how easy it is to learn a few words to order), here, straight out of the EFL textbook I use to teach English here in Japan is the fast food unit.

Vocab:
Hamburger(s)
Cheeseburger
Chickenburger
Apple pie
Orange juice
Shake
Cola(s)
Please
Large
Or
Small
Here
Go

Phrases:
For here.
To go.
Here you are.

Dialog:

Mike: Two hambugers and two colas, please.

Clerk: Large or small?

Mike: Large, please.

Clerk: For here or to go?

Mike: To go.

Clerk: Here you are. That's five hundred and forty yen, please. (Pause) Thank you.*

That's what Japanese school kids learn in their English classes. You challenge is to use that, and only that, to get some food at a fast food restaurant of your choice. You do not know any other English. You cannot understand anything else but the above. Have fun and see how far you can get.

*From New Horizon Book 1

...

...

...

Are you serious?

I had a feeling that wouldn't get across.

I'm asking you what the context is. In what situation are you conversing with a person that speaks a different language?

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised, considering the similarity of the languages, and the fact that multilingualism is promoted in Europe.

You wouldn't be surprised, but you can't expect it.

Right, because Germans hate Jews. I GET IT, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!! :rolleyes:

Wow, that was completely unintentional. Oops.

As he IS a private business, he can set whatever rules he wants.
There is no legal way of MAKING him allow people to order in spanish.

Right, because Germans hate Jews. I GET IT, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!! :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm pretty sure he just meant it as an example.

Pulling that out reflects a lot worse on you than it does on him.

It's a similar concept as to when you make a subtle joke, and a person claims you made a dirty remark, it makes the accuser look bad instead of you.

I've got a crazy idea for you all (Well, all those who have been saying how easy it is to learn a few words to order), here, straight out of the EFL textbook I use to teach English here in Japan is the fast food unit.

Vocab:
Hamburger(s)
Cheeseburger
Chickenburger
Apple pie
Orange juice
Shake
Cola(s)
Please
Large
Or
Small
Here
Go

Phrases:
For here.
To go.
Here you are.

Dialog:

Mike: Two hambugers and two colas, please.

Clerk: Large or small?

Mike: Large, please.

Clerk: For here or to go?

Mike: To go.

Clerk: Here you are. That's five hundred and forty yen, please. (Pause) Thank you.*

That's what Japanese school kids learn in their English classes. You challenge is to use that, and only that, to get some food at a fast food restaurant of your choice. You do not know any other English. You cannot understand anything else but the above. Have fun and see how far you can get.

*From New Horizon Book 1

That's where all the pointing and gesturing comes in, y'see.

I've got a crazy idea for you all (Well, all those who have been saying how easy it is to learn a few words to order), here, straight out of the EFL textbook I use to teach English here in Japan is the fast food unit.

Vocab:
Hamburger(s)
Cheeseburger
Chickenburger
Apple pie
Orange juice
Shake
Cola(s)
Please
Large
Or
Small
Here
Go

Phrases:
For here.
To go.
Here you are.

Dialog:

Mike: Two hambugers and two colas, please.

Clerk: Large or small?

Mike: Large, please.

Clerk: For here or to go?

Mike: To go.

Clerk: Here you are. That's five hundred and forty yen, please. (Pause) Thank you.*

That's what Japanese school kids learn in their English classes. You challenge is to use that, and only that, to get some food at a fast food restaurant of your choice. You do not know any other English. You cannot understand anything else but the above. Have fun and see how far you can get.

*From New Horizon Book 1

Actually, based on the article, you only actually need to know four words-"Provolone", "American" and "Cheez Whiz".

Well, I know that if I moved to a country other than the United States I'd have the courtesy to learn the language spoken in their country. I don't ask more or less of anyone else.

As he IS a private business, he can set whatever rules he wants.

Oh really. So like, he could allow smoking in his establishment, yes?

There is no legal way of MAKING him allow people to order in spanish.

Yeah, I suppose there's also no legal way of MAKING him take down a sign with as much dignity as, "No dogs or Irish." What, did I fall asleep and suddenly the government is fucking powerless?

Actually, based on the article, you only actually need to know four words-"Provolone", "American" and "Cheez Whiz".

Is that all? Jeez, I don't even know why this guy has an issue then, I could learn that in Spanish and 12 or so other languages by the end of this thread. Now that's a wide market, I'd say.

Yeah, I suppose there's also no legal way of MAKING him take down a sign with as much dignity as, "No dogs or Irish."

That comparison is absurd. That comparison might be acceptable if he had put up a sign saying "No mexicans". He didn't. He put up a sign requesting you speak english. It's not an unreasonable imposition.

Well, I know that if I moved to a country other than the United States I'd have the courtesy to learn the language spoken in their country. I don't ask more or less of anyone else.

And of course, you would do this instantaneously? I mean, it's only courteous, right?

That comparison is absurd. That comparison might be acceptable if he had put up a sign saying "No mexicans". He didn't. He put up a sign requesting you speak english. It's not an unreasonable imposition.

Surely no more unreasonable than requesting that he learn a bit as well, but I got shouted at for it. *shrug*

That's where all the pointing and gesturing comes in, y'see.
But people in this thread have said how easy it is to pick up some English and order... Not to mention that if they had the menue right next to you, that's easy. When it's above your head and large, that's a bit trickier.

As was said many times the last time this came up, he can refuse to serve people on pretty much any grounds he wants, but he's still being a jackass about this.

And it seems the people who suspected that it was mainly a publicity stunt were right.

That comparison is absurd.

Not really. It's only a matter of degree of offensiveness.

Sorry if that bugs you, but one offensive sign and another offensive sign are both very comparable because they're both, guess what, offensive signs.

Actually, based on the article, you only actually need to know four words-"Provolone", "American" and "Cheez Whiz".
Sadly, I don't teach Provolone, American, or Cheez Whiz. You don't even get cheese, just cheeseburger.

You wouldn't be surprised, but you can't expect it.

I guess that's true. In any case, French and Italian are really similar; I understand a little French, and I can get the gist of a lot of Italian writing as well.

Wow, that was completely unintentional. Oops.

I wasn't sure if it was or not. I just found it kind of amusing.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he just meant it as an example.
He already said that he did.

Pulling that out *at this point I stopped reading*

Pulling what out? This? *unzips pants* 'Cause I'll totally pull it out and slap you with it. Directly in the face.

But people in this thread have said how easy it is to pick up some English and order... Not to mention that if they had the menue right next to you, that's easy. When it's above your head and large, that's a bit trickier.

Hmm. Perhaps, but there's this McDonald's in town where my ordering basically consists of over pointing over their heads, saying "cheeseburger" a few times, then saying "trois, trois".

Well, I know that if I moved to a country other than the United States I'd have the courtesy to learn the language spoken in their country. I don't ask more or less of anyone else.
So... just out of curriosity, you plan to take a number of years before you move to learn the language or do you just plan to starve in the meantime while over then and you haven't learned it yet?

Actually, based on the article, you only actually need to know four words-"Provolone", "American" and "Cheez Whiz".

Numbers might be useful as well, in case you want more than one. And you need to understand the price. And if you happen to not want onions or something, that's important too.

Numbers might be useful as well, in case you want more than one. And you need to understand the price.

Fingers and cash register displays, trust me on those two.

And if you happen to not want onions or something, that's important too.

Got nothin' for this one though. :p

Hmm. Perhaps, but there's this McDonald's in town where my ordering basically consists of over pointing over their heads, saying "cheeseburger" a few times, then saying "trois, trois".
I got lucky, the Japanese McDonalds had the menue printed on mats next to the register, so pointing worked until I could get enough Japanese to say what I wanted.

There were a number of times though that pointing didn't work and I ended up with either somthing I didn't want or two of the something that I did want.

I agree that it is his restaurant and if he wants to be a jerk about it, he can. I won't go there if I'm ever in Philly because of it, but it annoys me to no end to see folks post, "They should just learn English" because it doesn't work that way.

He should learn Spanish. It's a hell of a lot easier than learning English.

Look let me say this, you think this is bad? I was in France for all of 12 hours once, and I don't speak French, I speak English and German. I tried to buy some food from a small restaurant, in both languages. The man refused to give me anything. Looked like he was going to kill me haha

I didn't feel discriminated against. I understood that they speak French in France. So using my vast knowledge of
French I went to McDonalds and ordered a number 1. :D

And of course, you would do this instantaneously? I mean, it's only courteous, right?


Of course I wouldn't. I also wouldn't move to a country that I didn't know their language unless I had to. But since their are many who come to America who don't have a chance in their homeland, they should start as soon as they can. I worked in a Steak house for nearly 3 years, we hired alot of people who couldn't speak English. We didn't put those people in postions where they needed to know English. We also set a program up so they could goto a local college and take free English classes.

While I agree with the store owner, I think this is part of a larger problem. People everywhere seem to think that if you live in America, you need to speak English. Besides the fact that America has no official language, of course.

Well now, when we lived in Spain and wanted to eat, buy groceries, get hardware we didn't get it unless we spoke Spanish or take someone to translate with us. :eek: So, we had to learn the language and one way to do that was to learn how to say "how do you say that" in Spanish while pointing to the item. Oh, they would tell us and we would have to repeat it correctly, then they would sell it to us and have us count our change back in Spanish. We carried a Spanish-English dictionary all the time for the first six to nine months we were there. It was great and the Spanish were more than willing to help us learn the language.

I went up to Germany for a couple of days on business. I went to a sidewalk restaurant and asked the waitress in German if she spoke English and when she replied "Nine" I asked her in Spanish if she spoke Spanish. Again, she replied, "Nine." I pointed to something on the menu and she brought it to me. It was good and I have no idea at all what it was.

My point is if you want to live in a country do everything, you can to learn the language. If you are just visiting and haven't had time to learn any of the language or get a dual language dictionary, learn how to point. If you don't want to do either, don't expect them to try to cater to you just go home.
:eek:

Isn't this story atleast a year old? Or is he putting up a second sign?

Honestly how many of the vile brown people wanted one of those horrid things anyway? "Oh I'm in America now, time to put on 50lbs"

Isn't this story atleast a year old? Or is he putting up a second sign?

Honestly how many of the vile brown people wanted one of those horrid things anyway? "Oh I'm in America now, time to put on 50lbs"

"If you want to be in America, you'll have to learn to fit in." Or not fit in, as the case may be if you try to fly back home.

I agree that it is his restaurant and if he wants to be a jerk about it, he can. I won't go there if I'm ever in Philly because of it, but it annoys me to no end to see folks post, "They should just learn English" because it doesn't work that way.

So, you learned Japanese because the people there thought "He should just learn Japanese," and they were not being jerks?

He should learn Spanish. It's a hell of a lot easier than learning English.

He lives in the US where the predominant language is English. He was brought up speaking English and he should learn Spanish? :rolleyes:

He lives in the US where the predominant language is English. He was brought up speaking English and he should learn Spanish? :rolleyes:

Yes.

This is america, order corn, not maze.:mad:

Yes.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:

This is america, order corn, not maze.:mad:

Did you know that most Spanish (in Spain) won't eat corn because it is a food for livestock and not for people? You didn't find it in any grocery store, rostro (outdoor market), or restaraunt when we were there forom 1980 to 1983.

1) It's a reasonable request.
2) He's probably not any more racist than any other American who gets worked up over immigrants who don't learn English. Take that as you will.
3) The sign does kind of make him sound like a jackass. He could improve the tone a lot just by removing the "This is America" part.
4) If the Danes had done this to me, I'd have been screwed. I learned to order things in Danish, but I'm still not sure I ever actually pronounced anything right.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:

You'd be surprised how many of them already know enough English to provide their service.

Did you know that most Spanish (in Spain) won't eat corn because it is a food for livestock and not for people? You didn't find it in any grocery store, rostro (outdoor market), or restaraunt when we were there forom 1980 to 1983.

They're different types of corn that I know of. They set aside a certain kind for livestock and another for people... yeah.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:

Okay.

So... in order to make sure everyone speaks English, he puts up a sign written in English telling people to speak English when ordering?

Swing and a miss.

So, you learned Japanese because the people there thought "He should just learn Japanese," and they were not being jerks?
No, I learned Japanese for the same reason that everyone who comes to the US learns English, it's the language of the majority. But guess what, I needed to eat and live while learning (and still learning the language). Learning a language isn't as easy as a lot of (usually people who have never been out of the country and haven't tried to learn a language past high school) make it out to be.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:
Show me proof that immigrants coming into the US aren't attempting to learn English.

You go to the country, speak its language.

Alot of countries expect you to speak their native language if you go there to try to communicate, they should expect the same.
Okay, I guess you can speak cherokee?

In other news, this is a clear discrimination against the "speakers" of ASL, who are not able to speak english, integration or not.

Pulling what out? This? *unzips pants* 'Cause I'll totally pull it out and slap you with it. Directly in the face.

Oh boy, aren't you a little paragon of maturity?

Also, personally, if I was planning to stay in a country for an extended period of time (More than a month) I would personally attempt to learn enough to, if not carry on excellent conversation, at least ad-lib understandable sentences.

Okay, I guess you can speak cherokee?

In other news, this is a clear discrimination against the "speakers" of ASL, who are not able to speak english, integration or not.

I spy an xkcd reader! :D

Actually, this is all rather ridiculous. The store does have a right to only provide service in English, though he could have been less of a jerk with the sign. Furthermore, English does happen to be the official language in Pennsylvania, where the restaurant happens to be.

Pulling what out? This? *unzips pants*

Over the top and not funny, GTR. Knock it off. NOW.

Okay, I guess you can speak cherokee?

In other news, this is a clear discrimination against the "speakers" of ASL, who are not able to speak english, integration or not.

Is he/she a 17th Century immigrant? ;)

The way I see it, there should be some effort to integrate oneself - not one that should be enforced cruelly, but rather encouraged.

They're different types of corn that I know of. They set aside a certain kind for livestock and another for people... yeah.

I grow corn occasionally, and I've always heard that sweetcorn is actually in some ways *more* popular in Europe than here. It's even used as a pizza topping in some of Europe. :p Me, I use it in chili, eat it straight off the cob and cream it sometimes even.

The main international hurdle with corn is that, in some countries, the word "corn" means something more like oats - that kind of thing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6254560.stm



What do you think? Unreasonable, or even racist? Perfectly allowable? A blow against those who would illegally immigrate?

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

It's kind of funny, the neighborhood right next to geno's and pats is mainly immigrants who speak spanish. There are also a couple other signs that he has. I was just there on friday and decided to try Geno's instead of Pat's and he had a sign that said something along the lines of, "A U.S. Marine gave you the right to speak english, use that right." Extremely misguided but funny nonetheless.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6254560.stm



What do you think? Unreasonable, or even racist? Perfectly allowable? A blow against those who would illegally immigrate?

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

If they don't know English, how are they going to read the sticker?

Better yet: "Say it in English or don't say it."

Props to the owner. He's under no obligation to "accommodate" anybody.

not even a deaf ASL user? Someone with a tracheotomy tube?

This guy only sells one food with a choice of cheeses, one of which is provolone, ie an Italian cheese with an Italian name.

So really if you want to order his in English you'd have to say "one of your burgers please with the cheese that isn't American or Wiz"

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to order food in the primary language of a country. However, posting that sign is definitely something a racist would do. Not saying the guy is definitely a racist, just saying it's something that seems racist.

I can't help wonder how many of the people who agree with that sticker would be deadly offended when on holiday in France they'd be asked to speak French or won't get service...

English?

This is AMERICAAAAAAAAA!

Sorry, I had to.

I don't really see the point in something like this. Personally, I doubt that anyone in America who can speak English would choose not to do in public in favour of another language. If they don't speak English, a sign is not going to imbue them with linguistic knowledge. Turning away potential customers, it's his loss. The sign does seem like a petty gesture of a racist.

I can't help wonder how many of the people who agree with that sticker would be deadly offended when on holiday in France they'd be asked to speak French or won't get service...

That isn't the norm over there? I always have to speak Spanish when in Mexico, not that I mind. I think if I were to spend hundreds of dollars on a trip to France, I would put up the $5 for a phrasebook! :p

That isn't the norm over there? I always have to speak Spanish when in Mexico, not that I mind. I think if I were to spend hundreds of dollars on a trip to France, I would put up the $5 for a phrasebook! :p

Pointless. You are american. French people do not speak to you lowly americans.

That isn't the norm over there? I always have to speak Spanish when in Mexico, not that I mind. I think if I were to spend hundreds of dollars on a trip to France, I would put up the $5 for a phrasebook! :p

I never understood the point of those phrase books. I remember one a friend of mine brought along when visiting me in Montreal. Under shopping, it had the very useful sentence "Je voudrais cent grams der fromage et deux kilos de peches"... that's not going to feed you on a 2-week-holiday!!!

I never understood the point of those phrase books. I remember one a friend of mine brought along when visiting me in Montreal. Under shopping, it had the very useful sentence "Je voudrais cent grams der fromage et deux kilos de peches"... that's not going to feed you on a 2-week-holiday!!!

Americans rarely get to go on two-week holidays, though. Really only if we're old or rich. It suffices for us, the phrasebooks, not the holidays.

what these so called language patriots seem to forget, is that english, even ameringlish, is NOT the native languauge of the land america sits on. and i doubt very much that any of then can speak, or have even ever heard, possibly even ever immagined, the language indiginious to where they are sitting/standing. if they had, and it were THAT lanuguage they were insisting upon, they MIGHT have a point.

nor for that mater is ameringlish english english by rather a broad stretch of it. so just what the hell is anyone in this america talking about when they say that everyone here should speak english?

if anyone wants to insist on the language of a place being spoken in that place, let them first learn the ACTUAL language of that place. and i can absolutely guarantee you, NO WHERE in the wester hemisphere is that any sort of english, or any other european language for that matter.

=^^=
.../\...

1) It's a reasonable request.
2) He's probably not any more racist than any other American who gets worked up over immigrants who don't learn English. Take that as you will.
3) The sign does kind of make him sound like a jackass. He could improve the tone a lot just by removing the "This is America" part.
4) If the Danes had done this to me, I'd have been screwed. I learned to order things in Danish, but I'm still not sure I ever actually pronounced anything right.

Hooray. 76 posts in, someone gets it.

"Please speak English while ordering" is a reasonable requirement.
The "This is America" bit makes it a political statement.

You win the thread! Congratulations.

I never understood the point of those phrase books. I remember one a friend of mine brought along when visiting me in Montreal. Under shopping, it had the very useful sentence "Je voudrais cent grams der fromage et deux kilos de peches"... that's not going to feed you on a 2-week-holiday!!!

The point is to have the structure of the phrase, then replace 'fromage' with 'jambon', or 'oeufs' or whatever.

Hooray. 76 posts in, someone gets it.

"Please speak English while ordering" is a reasonable requirement.
The "This is America" bit makes it a political statement.

You win the thread! Congratulations.

Actually, considering the whole "if they could understand the sign in the first place" bit, it's really just a publicity stunt through and through.

i'm sorry but it is NOT a reasonable request. if it were "this is placer county, please speak nissinan maidu when ordering" or "this is el dorado county, please speak norther miwok when ordering" THAT would be a "reasonable request".

=^^=
.../\...

I am sorry, but why does English need protecting again?

It is world's most widespread language, if not its most spoken, and second language of choice for citizens of non-English speaking countries.

As well as many benefits, there are two main problems with the global predominance of English, with respect to those who speak it.

1./ It is a result of cultural imperialism inherited from Britain that we only need to speak English, and that others should speak English, to converse with US! Not only is that blatantly racist, it also justifies being lazy, and small-minded ignorance to not observe or attempt things different to one's own.

2/. It justifies a bad current situation where a huge majority of the English speaking world speak only English, yet in other countries, varying obviously, up to 66% of the population speaks a language not their native tongue.

Of course it remains one's choice to take foreign languages, but they should be further encouraged beyond a simple one-year class at middle-school.

As for the whole debate, it seems that this type of rhetoric is simply Republican dog-whistling politics, to get low-income and less well educated voters to vote for policies that would inhibit their economic prospects. (NB - Latino vote for Republican candidates outside Florida) The whole anti-Latino debate, a three pronged attack, being Immigration, Drugs, and EitNL is so obviously racist to anyone outside the US south-west that only a small minded cretin could not see that.

Shame on a political party for bending over backwards to accommodate the views of a bigoted, and racist minority of white Americans.

Actually, considering the whole "if they could understand the sign in the first place" bit, it's really just a publicity stunt through and through.

And, despite the eagle, not that patriotic either. "This is America. Please speak American when ordering" would appeal more, surely?

You go to the country, speak its language.

Alot of countries expect you to speak their native language if you go there to try to communicate, they should expect the same.

Sadly, usually Americans tourists (and also many other from english-speaking countries) in Italy usually don't even bother trying to speak Italian and expect anyone to understand some american dialect of English.

I have troubles sometimes understanding a person speaking proper English; the Southern Drawl sounds like Martian to me. I'd expect those people trying at least another language, like Spanish or French. No way. Monoglots.:p Usually I answer with a "Sprechen Sie Deutsch?" and a "Govoritje po-russki?", and they run away. ;)

What I really find insulting is that even US ambassadors do not speak the languages of the respective countries they are sent to.

What I really find insulting is that US ambassadors do not speak the languages of the respective countries they are sent to.

Oh my god. You must be joking. Really?

Because if that's true, they should not be ambassadors full stop. I don't care f they've got translators, an ambassador should speak the damned language of the country they are situated in. They're diplomats for goodness sakes.

Oh yeah. That reminds me how American ambassadors refuse to pay parking tickets and congestion charges because they're a "tax" that they don't have to pay on the virtue of having been born in America.

I've heard this guy on the radio here, and his restaurant is one of those places where there's a long line (apparently he's that good) so to get people in and out as quick as possible, they require the customer to speak English so they can get their order filled as quick as possible and get that guy out the door. It's kinda like the Soup Nazi place on Seinfeld. So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a person to speak English when ordering because hey, he got 500 people waiting for their food and he can't mess around.

The I guess it also is not unreasonable for a customer to go elsewhere if not satisfied with teh service.

Heh it's a free world, if I come across notices like that I would just go elsewhere.Heheh if I could read them that is.

Another way to see it, would be to say, well this man obviously does not want the tourist dollar.

What is one of his patrons was deaf-mute? :confused:

Oh yes. My two cents on this little issue. It's not unreasonable for the guy to request people order from his stall in English, but just as long as he himself would be willing to speak the local language whenever he's abroad.

I myself learn a few phrases I may need before I go ashore. It's respectful and polite to the locals. For example, the waiter/waitress always smiles whenever I speak to them in thier own language when I'm at a cafe or resteraunt. I am a visitor to thier country, and I shouldn't expect them to bend over backwards to try and understand my language, I should be adapting to them.

When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. I realize that a foreigner probably couldn't learn enough English on a 2 week vacation, but if you're LIVING in a nation, you'd better learn the language.

The I guess it also is not unreasonable for a customer to go elsewhere if not satisfied with teh service.

Heh it's a free world, if I come across notices like that I would just go elsewhere.Heheh if I could read them that is.

Another way to see it, would be to say, well this man obviously does not want the tourist dollar.Well, if everyone in the world would refuse to serve tourists who don't speak the local language (and don't try), US folks would ultimately have to stay at home.
BTW have you ever heard a US American speak French? It's a shame. Worse than bad English is bad French. I have also noted that many Americans do not use their tongues in speaking. Why is that?

Well, if everyone in the world would refuse to serve tourists who don't speak the local language (and don't try), US folks would ultimately have to stay at home.
BTW have you ever heard a US American speak French? It's a shame. Worse than bad English is bad French. I have also noted that many Americans do not use their tongues in speaking. Why is that?

Centuries of sexual repression. *nod*

When in Rome, speak as the Romans do. I realize that a foreigner probably couldn't learn enough English on a 2 week vacation, but if you're LIVING in a nation, you'd better learn the language.

Actually, we went to Rome for a bit and got by without any Italian. All we really needed to know was the name of the streets so a taxi driver could get us there.

Also, the Colosseum was cool.

The US doesn't have an official language and its populace comes from backgrounds speaking all sorts of languages - English, German, Russian, various Native American tongues, various African tongues, Spanish, Italian, French, Arabic, Hindu, etc., etc., etc.

Yes it does. There was a law passed last year that said any service was not required by law to provide its infomation in any other language other than English

Completely reasonable. I routinely annoy customers whose English is poor, either by asking for countless repetitions, or asking them to write down what they want. Frankly, if you can't speak English, you have no right to shop in an English shop, provided you live in the country.

[url]Unreasonable, or even racist? Perfectly allowable? A blow against those who would illegally immigrate?

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

This is Czech Republic, speak Czech when ordering....
Sounds idiotic to me.

Shouldn't be "This is America, speak Navajo (or Apache, or any native language)..."?

Aren't Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, etc. in America anyway?

Completely reasonable. I routinely annoy customers whose English is poor, either by asking for countless repetitions, or asking them to write down what they want. Frankly, if you can't speak English, you have no right to shop in an English shop, provided you live in the country.

I'd ask if you'd rather they all starve, but... *shrug* As though we don't already know?

I'd ask if you'd rather they all starve, but... *shrug* As though we don't already know?

They could always just buy an English phrase book in their own bloody country. I have better things to do with my time at work than listen to Eastern European accented, mangled English. Like playing bouncy ball cricket in the storeroom.

The point is to have the structure of the phrase, then replace 'fromage' with 'jambon', or 'oeufs' or whatever.

Still no point at all if you don't understand the reply you get.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:

In my experience quite far, if you are working either at the US embassy in Prague or the US consulate in Milan...
I also know some US citizens living in Prague that do not speak Czech and still manage to live well. Supermarkets and a job at Microsoft CR do make that possible.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:

Works quite well here with the Spanish and the Polish.
Works even better in Germany with the Russians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6254560.stm



What do you think? Unreasonable, or even racist? Perfectly allowable? A blow against those who would illegally immigrate?

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

Like Geno's ancestors my grandfather spoke Englsih with an accent so thick you could cut it with a knife, but he accepted that since he was entering someone elses country as a guest he had to learn the language which he did before he left Amsterdam. I am an American I was born here, my ancestors spoke Dutch and French and German and Norwegian..no one spoke Englsih till they got here. Learn to speak Englsih or go the fuck home.. PERIOD!

They don't, actually. Especially people in positions requiring communication. The average Luxembourger knows 2.9 languages, but that'd be distinctly higher for those in various service industries...

Additionally, my parents have traveled all over Europe, and although they make the effort to speak the language of the people they are visiting, often times after they've got past, "Good afternoon," and "please, where is the art museum", folks have been kind enough to switch to English for them if it seems that would be easier. (My mother's fluent in German and Spanish, so there's usually a common language -- my dad not so much.)

Guys, it's a matter of respect.

Whenever I've travelled to South America when I go out to buy something or eat out I order in Spanish. I order in Spanish because it's rude to expect people to accomodate me. Besides which, it would be hardly reasonable to expect every waiter/waitress or proprietor of a shop to speak English to accomodate me anyway.

If I go to a shop where they DO speak English and specifically cater to those who can't speak in Spanish, that's fine, but to expect everybody else to step up and conform to what *I* want isn't reasonable.

Well it's the same here. if a business has Spanish speaking staff and/or wants to cater to that community then fine, but it's rude for those who don't speak English to somehow expect to be accomodated simply because they can't be bothered to learn to order in English.

Learning a language isn't the easiest thing in the world but billions have done it. This is especially important when you're talking about people who ARE in this country long-term. If someone is just visiting for a few weeks that's one thign, but if you've got a driver's license and a permanent address, you have *no* excuse for not knowing at least enough English to order a lousy cheesesteak.

Actually, based on the article, you only actually need to know four words-"Provolone", "American" and "Cheez Whiz".

http://www.patskingofsteaks.com/order.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesesteak#Cultural_Etiquette

I wanna Whiz wit. (See, it's barely English anyway! ;))

Pointless. You are american. French people do not speak to you lowly americans.

Bull. :)

I never understood the point of those phrase books. I remember one a friend of mine brought along when visiting me in Montreal. Under shopping, it had the very useful sentence "Je voudrais cent grams der fromage et deux kilos de peches"... that's not going to feed you on a 2-week-holiday!!!

Yes, but you could conceivably figure out how to substitute, say steak for cheese and 2 kilos of cocaine for peaches. (or was that fish? or was it misspelled?) ;)

tickets and congestion charges because they're a "tax" that they don't have to pay on the virtue of having been born in America.

Don't let's get started on that as if it's a uniquely American attitude -- diplomats from all over the world in New York feel that the parking rules don't apply to them either.


Yo, Pot....

No, I learned Japanese for the same reason that everyone who comes to the US learns English, it's the language of the majority. But guess what, I needed to eat and live while learning (and still learning the language). Learning a language isn't as easy as a lot of (usually people who have never been out of the country and haven't tried to learn a language past high school) make it out to be.

Even people who have tried very hard to learn a language before visiting/moving to a country struggle with it when it comes to speaking it with people who don't also speak their native language. I remember meeting a Japanese woman who was visiting the US for the first time for a scientific conference. Before coming, she thought she had a really good handle on English. However, when it came down to actually speaking it with native speakers, she struggled quite a bit, and I think getting nervous over it made it even more difficult for her.

Personally, I don't think you can really learn a language well without immersing yourself in it, and you can't do that until you get to somewhere it is spoken near exclusively. Anyone doing that is going to need a little help becoming truly fluent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6254560.stm

What do you think? Unreasonable, or even racist? Perfectly allowable? A blow against those who would illegally immigrate?

I say it's not an unreasonable expectation that one should speak english when ordering.

It depends on who the wait staff is, and who the clientele are.

If you're wait staff is all English speaking, the menu in English, and the clientele majority English speaking, you can assume having a difficult time ordering food if you can't speak English, or at least read it well enough to point out items from the menu.

Here in Herndon, there are several restaurants that are run by Salvadorans, with the menu in Spanish, and the clientele is majority Salvadoran.

If you can't speak Spanish, you're going to have a hard time ordering your food. You'll also miss out on something good.

It's not racist to expect people to speak a specific language, if the market supports your business in a particular language. If you're making money, and the place is doing well, you can tell the customers to whistle the Internationale if that's what you like.

Even people who have tried very hard to learn a language before visiting/moving to a country struggle with it when it comes to speaking it with people who don't also speak their native language. I remember meeting a Japanese woman who was visiting the US for the first time for a scientific conference. Before coming, she thought she had a really good handle on English. However, when it came down to actually speaking it with native speakers, she struggled quite a bit, and I think getting nervous over it made it even more difficult for her.

Personally, I don't think you can really learn a language well without immersing yourself in it, and you can't do that until you get to somewhere it is spoken near exclusively. Anyone doing that is going to need a little help becoming truly fluent.

Agreed. Immersion is the best way. Especially for children learning a language. If yuo take a child and immerse them in a new language, they can gain a functional ability to speak that language in as little as a couple weeks.

For those who think this guy is just being racist:

Fact that goes unreported: If you go there and can't speak English, they will help you learn to order in English as a way of promoting this as a positive thing, not a negative.

If he were just out to harm non-English speakers, I don't think he'd do that, do you?

Better yet: "Say it in English or don't say it."

Props to the owner. He's under no obligation to "accommodate" anybody.

I give props to people that do not have to do something but do it anyways to help someone out

I do not give props to dicks like this guy, just tolerate them.

Agreed. Immersion is the best way. Especially for children learning a language. If yuo take a child and immerse them in a new language, they can gain a functional ability to speak that language in as little as a couple weeks.

My daughter initially went to a Hebrew primary school here in the US.

She learned Ivrit, and I still take her to a hair salon (she's a teenager now), where the staff is all Israeli expats - and she converses fluently in Ivrit.

We also live in Herndon, where a lot of people are from El Salvador, and you can go all day just speaking Spanish. I, my wife, and all of my children speak Spanish (at least basic conversational) now.

I already know quite a few languages. Yes, immersion helps a lot.

Yes, English is the predominant language in most places in the US. But there are a lot of places in the US where you can speak a language other than English.

If you went to the Eden mall in Falls Church, and you didn't speak Vietnamese, you're not going to get much help. Not because they are racist, but because it's a place run by and serving mostly Vietnamese people.

I give props to people that do not have to do something but do it anyways to help someone out

I do not give props to dicks like this guy, just tolerate them.

I guess you figure the Salvadoran running restaurants and stores in Herndon are dicks.

Some of them are first generation immigrants running a business. Their kids can speak English, but they themselves cannot.

Am I to call them a dick if I try to order in English, or should I learn Spanish (which I have)?

I guess you figure the Salvadoran running restaurants and stores in Herndon are dicks.

Some of them are first generation immigrants running a business. Their kids can speak English, but they themselves cannot.

Am I to call them a dick if I try to order in English, or should I learn Spanish (which I have)?

No my point was that you should try and be accommodating if possible the guy in the article does not appear to be doing that

If you do not have the ability to do something then you are not a dick when you fail to do it ...

No my point was that you should try and be accommodating if possible the guy in the article does not appear to be doing that

If you do not have the ability to do something then you are not a dick when you fail to do it ...

If the owner who posted the sign can only speak English, and his staff can only speak English, then he's not a dick.

If the owner who posted the sign can only speak English, and his staff can only speak English, then he's not a dick.

I don't know the whole "this is America" part of his little sign or whatever seems rather dickish to me

I don't know the whole "this is America" part of his little sign or whatever seems rather dickish to me

I admit that part is dickish. But I've been to Spanish places here in Herndon where the only thing the owner knows how to say in English is "speak Spanish".

I admit that part is dickish. But I've been to Spanish places here in Herndon where the only thing the owner knows how to say in English is "speak Spanish".

Yeah I guess I would not be thinking he is such a dick if he just had his staff say it to the customer or even a less disckish sign

Isn't it a little ironic to expect him and his staff to speak Spanish and say that those ordering need not know English?

Yeah I guess I would not be thinking he is such a dick if he just had his staff say it to the customer or even a less disckish sign

He also needs to see other parts of the US - there are a wide variety of languages spoken here. You can go all day and not speak English (in fact, some people live their lives not speaking English).

Oh yeah. That reminds me how American ambassadors refuse to pay parking tickets and congestion charges because they're a "tax" that they don't have to pay on the virtue of having been born in America.

To be fair, it is generally held that ambassadors from other countries have diplomatic immunity in the US, and therefore don't have to pay parking tickets and the like.

One funny incident at the local Bestway (not Safeway).

The store is run by Salvadorans. You speak Spanish in there.

Four guys from India, sharing a shopping cart, had loaded it up. They got into the express (15 items or less) line.

The clerk, in Spanish, tried to explain that they could not use the express line, and had to go to another register. They couldn't understand a word she was saying, so I had to translate. They insisted that the contents of their cart, divided by their number, was less than 15 each, but they wanted it all on one receipt, which the clerk would not allow.

Finally, the clerk said in English, "Express is Express. This is America."

So maybe the dickish phrase is catching on.

Yes it does. There was a law passed last year that said any service was not required by law to provide its infomation in any other language other than English

No, it doesn't. There are a few individual states and even a few individual cities that have declared English the official language. I think there may be a city or two that has declared both English and Spanish as official languages.

The nation as a whole, however, does not have an official language. Any kind of federal government entities must offer translators and ballots, etc. in various languages.

If the owner who posted the sign can only speak English, and his staff can only speak English, then he's not a dick.
No, that just means it makes sense. He is still a dick. It isn't what you say, it is how you say it.

No, that just means it makes sense. He is still a dick. It isn't what you say, it is how you say it.

So the Salvadorans who run stores and restaurants in my area are dicks?

They won't speak English, or take an order in English.

So the Salvadorans who run stores and restaurants in my area are dicks?

They won't speak English, or take an order in English.

No that is covered in the "Not what you say" part of the quoted post

You can be a dick while still doing saying something reasonable

To be fair, it is generally held that ambassadors from other countries have diplomatic immunity in the US, and therefore don't have to pay parking tickets and the like.

Well I suppose it's good that they practise what they preach in the US of A when it comes to this practise.

Here in the UK, we're always trying to pry open the wallets of US embassy staff that park improperly and contribute to congestion. They just refuse to pay the fines and run to the embassy.

So try going to a foreign county to live and convince them they should learn English because you don't want to learn their language. See how far you get with that one. :rolleyes:

Why should you? It's easier to learn their language than for them to learn English. Did you miss the entire point of my post, Celtlund?

Well I suppose it's good that they practise what they preach in the US of A when it comes to this practise.

Here in the UK, we're always trying to pry open the wallets of US embassy staff that park improperly and contribute to congestion. They just refuse to pay the fines and run to the embassy.

I think the whole idea of diplomatic immunity is far too easily abused.

The concept was originally introduced to avoid a situation where a diplomat, ignorant of local laws and customs, gets prosecuted leding to an international incident.

I think after an individual member of a diplomatic staff has been in a country for say, a year, diplomatic immunity should expire.

I think the whole idea of diplomatic immunity is far too easily abused.

The concept was originally introduced to avoid a situation where a diplomat, ignorant of local laws and customs, gets prosecuted leding to an international incident.

I think after an individual member of a diplomatic staff has been in a country for say, a year, diplomatic immunity should expire.

Ohh and I always thougt is was because it made espionage easyer?

Ohh and I always thougt is was because it made espionage easyer?

No that's the REAL reason ;)

Isn't it a little ironic to expect him and his staff to speak Spanish and say that those ordering need not know English?

I find it ironic that so many "liberals" (who in this context are generally in favor of business controls) are taking the side of the Evil Business Corporation For Profit Capitalist Devil.

But no, it's not ironic, to answer your question. The customer is always right.

I find it ironic that so many "liberals" (who in this context are generally in favor of business controls) are taking the side of the Evil Business Corporation For Profit Capitalist Devil.

But no, it's not ironic, to answer your question. The customer is always right.

Don't you find it odd that it's the die-hard conservative here who teaches his children to speak whatever language the merchant is using in order to conduct a business transaction?

Mmm?

I find it ironic that so many "liberals" (who in this context are generally in favor of business controls) are taking the side of the Evil Business Corporation For Profit Capitalist Devil.

But no, it's not ironic, to answer your question. The customer is always right.

Not if he is unable to be understood, the customer is not right.

Stupid axiom anyway. The customer is right if the customer has a point; if they are being moronic, they deserve to be told so.

Not if he is unable to be understood, the customer is not right.

Stupid axiom anyway. The customer is right if the customer has a point; if they are being moronic, they deserve to be told so.

Yeah I have always questioned that one. Quite often the customer is completly, utterly wrong.

How is someone struggling in a language they don't really know even remotely faster?

How is the guy who's trying to order speaking in a language that no one in the store understands even remotely faster. Basically if your going to live in a country, you should learn the language that the majority of people there speak. So if your in Germany, learn German, Spain, Spainish, France, French, Mexico Spainish, America, English, Japan, Japanese, etc etc. It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with being able to communicate with those beside you.

Not if he is unable to be understood, the customer is not right.

Stupid axiom anyway. The customer is right if the customer has a point; if they are being moronic, they deserve to be told so.

I do find it telling you're on about how speaking in a language other than English is "being moronic."

Don't you find it odd that it's the die-hard conservative here who teaches his children to speak whatever language the merchant is using in order to conduct a business transaction?

Mmm?

I find it more odd that the sign was written in English. Like that's gonna help if someone can't speak English.

Not if he is unable to be understood, the customer is not right.

Stupid axiom anyway. The customer is right if the customer has a point; if they are being moronic, they deserve to be told so.

Haha yes, awesome, because I have been pushed one too many times by some damn customer with that 'the customer is always right' bullshit. If their wrong, their wrong and I'll tell em that, they don't like it they can go somewhere else dammit.

This is America. We have no official language. Never have, and we don't need one. You are free to order however you like. On the other hand the owner of a business doesn't have to accept your order.

That's the way it is.

I find it more odd that the sign was written in English. Like that's gonna help if someone can't speak English.

At least the Salvadorans in my neighborhood say in English "Please speak Spanish".

The customer is always right.

Apparently not. (http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/25/the-great-american-pants-suit-judge-rules-for-cleaners/?mod=fpa_blogs)

Apparently not. (http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/25/the-great-american-pants-suit-judge-rules-for-cleaners/?mod=fpa_blogs)

Har. You are aware that the customer being right applies to ordinary transaction and business... not to legal cases as a statement of legal definition.

Har. You are aware that the customer being right applies to ordinary transaction and business... not to legal cases as a statement of legal definition.

The customer being right only applies if there are enough customers like that to put you out of business.

If all of your customers speak <insert language here>, and you feel you're making more than enough money, you don't have to accommodate anyone who speaks <insert a different language here>.

Har. You are aware that the customer being right applies to ordinary transaction and business... not to legal cases as a statement of legal definition.

Har. You are aware that the point of this case was that the customer was NOT always right, and that this was found to be one customer's assholic crusade without merit against a business owner.

Tagalog is a language

Which I happen to speak (not fluently, but still). :p

in my state its illegal to speak english. We have to speak american. -nods-

Yeah I have always questioned that one. Quite often the customer is completly, utterly wrong.

And quite often those that work on the other side of the counter want to jump over said counter and beat the customer in the face with a tire iron. I know I was feeling that today. :)

Har. You are aware that the point of this case was that the customer was NOT always right

...when engaged in a lawsuit. My point stands.

I spy an xkcd reader! :D
Indeed, but also someone interested in languages and the 'weird' (from my perspective) grammar of indegenous languages.

...when engaged in a lawsuit. My point stands.

Then I suggest that you read the judgment. The customer, who happened to also be the lawyer who brought the suit, believed that "Satisfaction Guaranteed" meant the business owner had to do WHATEVER the customer felt would satisfy him. The court said, "No reasonable person could construe it that way."

Honestly, it's not difficult reading.

English? THIS IS SPARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Sorry,... just had to let that one out.

So anyways, I thought the US were looking to diversify?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa

Even people who have tried very hard to learn a language before visiting/moving to a country struggle with it when it comes to speaking it with people who don't also speak their native language. I remember meeting a Japanese woman who was visiting the US for the first time for a scientific conference. Before coming, she thought she had a really good handle on English. However, when it came down to actually speaking it with native speakers, she struggled quite a bit, and I think getting nervous over it made it even more difficult for her.

Personally, I don't think you can really learn a language well without immersing yourself in it, and you can't do that until you get to somewhere it is spoken near exclusively. Anyone doing that is going to need a little help becoming truly fluent.
Exactly, and it takes time for a person to do so. If everyone talked like a bloody phrase book, it would make it easier, but the unit I posted is pretty close to a lot of travel books I've gotten while in Japan. They work for... of, about 2 minutes before the native speaker suddenly asks something that isn't remotely in said travel book.

If they can't speak english how can they read the sign?

If they can't speak english how can they read the sign?

If that's the case, how would they expect to order food? Point at the pretty picture on the menu of the meal they want and hope someone understands that?

I mean, it's simple courtesy when living in a foreign country that you at least know the language enough to function on your own.

If that's the case, how would they expect to order food? Point at the pretty picture on the menu of the meal they want and hope someone understands that?

I don't see why that wouldn't work. Pointing at what someone else is eating, smiling and offering money should work fine too.

I mean, it's simple courtesy when living in a foreign country that you at least know the language enough to function on your own.

It's simple courtesy to try. I'd think simple self-interest would be a factor too!

EDIT: I voted #2, #5 and #6, btw. What a pile of names!

English has to be the official language of the USA.

In all my 46 NS Nations legal immigrants must attend a national language class & a Social Customs Holiday Traditions Class, that said, it does not mean you cant speak your own native language or follow your Social Customs Holiday Traditions, but you all learn the national language of your host nation and its Social Customs Holiday Traditions.

For exsample, 4 TH of July, Thanksgiving in the USA.

Legal Immigrants welcomed, Illegal Immigrants not allowed.

English has to be the official language of the USA.

In all my 46 NS Nations legal immigrants must attend a national language class & a Social Customs Holiday Traditions Class, that said, it does not mean you cant speak your own native language or follow your Social Customs Holiday Traditions, but you all learn the national language of your host nation and its Social Customs Holiday Traditions.

For exsample, 4 TH of July, Thanksgiving in the USA.

Legal Immigrants welcomed, Illegal Immigrants not allowed.

Welcome to NSG. Please leave your Nations at the door. :D

Boy, I'd be screwed if that was a widespread ideal. "This is Luxembourg, please speak Luxembourgish when ordering"

That was my first thought too.

Should shops, restaurants and pubs here in France refuse to serve American tourists who don't order in French? I think not. It's absurd to expect all visitors to the US to speak fluent English.

in my state its illegal to speak english. We have to speak american. -nods-

That's the spirit! :p

English has to be the official language of the USA.

has to be?

in my state its illegal to speak english. We have to speak american. -nods-

You mean, like, like English, like, but with like, words like 'like' all the, like, time, like? :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Habana Cuba
English has to be the official language of the USA.

has to be?

Should be, is.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6254560.stm
What do you think? Unreasonable, or even racist?

I say let the market take care of him. If he has that much disregard for his customers, he'll eventually run into trouble with his business. He'll probably blame it on immigrants too.
This actually gives me an idea: customers should use a sign saying "this is a business, please be polite when taking an order". It bothers me when people are unprofessional and you get that a lot on restaurants and coffee shops where you have to put up with some jerk's attitude and impoliteness.

has to be?

In the sense of "I guess"

Did you find it funny that La Habana Cuba backed their opinion with 42 NationStates Nations? They're a weird mob over there :p

EDIT: No offence, Fidel. Just teasing! Consider it a diplomatic overture ...

*...*
This actually gives me an idea: customers should use a sign saying "this is a business, please be polite when taking an order". It bothers me when people are unprofessional and you get that a lot on restaurants and coffee shops where you have to put up with some jerk's attitude and impoliteness.

You wait until they've made the burger or coffee, then right before they serve you with it, you walk out. Never come back.

If they're really rude, write to the manager with your real name.

Yeah, I'm the Customer from Hell. Oh well.

They're a weird mob over there

Speaking of variations on the English language: How quintessentially Australian of you. :p

Speaking of variations on the English language: How quintessentially Australian of you. :p

It was a book I think. I just like the succint euphony of the phrase "weird mob" though nowdays "mob" is mainly used to mean a flock of sheep, or the Mafia as in the States. Aborigines still use it to mean a group of people, and it's still used more widely to refer to a clique who have been around for a while.

Most people say "that lot" or "those guys" nowdays. Kind of sad really.

Most people say "that lot" or "those guys" nowdays. Kind of sad really.

Yes, linguistic homogenisation is always a shame. Diversity makes things so much more interesting.

Keep it alive. :)

in my state its illegal to speak english. We have to speak american. -nods-i suppose native american languages are cool, huh? ;)

"This is Luxembourg, please speak Luxembourgish when ordering"

Papua New Guinea alone has about 800 native languages. Distinct languages, not dialects. Imagine!

Or they could require you to speak Tok Pisin (http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/images/pidgin-p.jpg). I love that language. ;)

Papua New Guinea alone has about 800 native languages. Distinct languages, not dialects.

:eek:

That's about 4 times as many as Nigeria or the DRC!

A more complete post.

English has to be the official language of the USA.

In all my 46 NS Nations legal immigrants must attend a national language class & a Social Customs Holiday Traditions Class, that said, it does not mean you cant speak your own native language or follow your Social Customs Holiday Traditions, but you all learn the national language of your host nation and its Social Customs Holiday Traditions.

For exsample, 4 TH of July, Thanksgiving in the USA.

I still have my Lechon Asado - Roasted Pig - Roast Pork on Christmas, the 4 TH of July, even Thanksgiving, sometimes I have some Lechon & Pavo - Turkey on Thanksgiving.

Spanglish.

Legal Immigrants welcomed, Illegal Immigrants not allowed.

That was with 46 NS Nations Nations, LOL.

That's about 4 times as many as Nigeria or the DRC!

PNG has the "world record", by far. I think Vanuatu has about 250.


Legal Immigrants welcomed, Illegal Immigrants not allowed.


What has that got to do with anything?

You've also ignored my point about tourists.

PNG has the "world record", by far. I think Vanuatu has about 250.

Quote:
Originally Posted by De La Florida
Legal Immigrants welcomed, Illegal Immigrants not allowed.

What has that got to do with anything?


While this Thread is about speaking English or not while ordering,
it is related to Immigrants.


You've also ignored my point about tourists.

Great point on tourists.

While I suipport the Cuban Adjustment act because it helps my people, which allows Cuban Americans who come to the USA in an illegal way to the USA to stay and apply for legal status after a year in the USA and is granted, now only under the wet foot, dry foot policy of reaching USA soil, because of Communism in Cuba, I have to admit it is not fair to other immigrant groups no matter what the reasons, and it should be abolished, it is not fair to other immigrant groups.

Should I post from another one of my NS Nations? lol.

*...*

Should I post from another one of my NS Nations? lol.

Hmm. It might be better to come from La Habana for a while.

The thing about NS states is that they are pretty much figments of your imagination. So saying "non-citizens should speak the national language" is pretty much the same as "non-citizens should speak the national language. That is how it is in all of my nations."

I mean no disrespect. I doubt I could update the issues and remember the passwords for 42 NS nations, let alone do all the politics over there. But your nations count for nothing in NS General. Here are just opinions, and if you choose to argue them, arguments.

Meh, who am I to judge. Things change. Just don't be surprised if people mock you for talking about your "nations" here.

*sigh*

I never will understand how history always repeats itself with such willing participation. Nationalism and racism die hard, but damnit, I hope they do in my life time..

Next what, I'm forced to speak French when I visit there for a week. When I was in Kenya, I just pointed at items that I wanted to buy. It's in every businessman’s best interest not to throw away any potential customers. I bet this guy would lose his business without immigrants.

This is America, speak English!

I wish they would. I look forward to the time when they spell axe and neighbour properly. :D

This is America, speak English!

I wish they would. I look forward to the time when they spell axe and neighbour properly. :D

We don't need your culturally imperialistic forms of dry humour!

I mean, humor.

DAMN YOU!

I just think that English is the traditional language of America so in the street, and at hom you can speak what ever you want, but in the government (like a secretary for the president,a senetor,some city worker,etc.) you should speak English. In scholl take an English as a second language course until you are proficient in English.

This is America, speak English!

I wish they would. I look forward to the time when they spell axe and neighbour properly. :D

Spellcheck says your spellings are wrong.