NationStates Jolt Archive


Born Liars, All of You!

Thumbless Pete Crabbe
01-07-2007, 06:45
A recent study confirms that human beings are natural liars, and begin lying basically at birth:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/07/01/scibaby101.xml

Whether lying about raiding the biscuit tin or denying they broke a toy, all children try to mislead their parents at some time. Yet it now appears that babies learn to deceive from a far younger age than anyone previously suspected.

Behavioural experts have found that infants begin to lie from as young as six months. Simple fibs help to train them for more complex deceptions in later life.

Until now, psychologists had thought the developing brains were not capable of the difficult art of lying until four years old.


:p

So what do you think? Are we hard-wired to lie to eachother? Can there ever be true understanding, or are our interactions just complicated sets of lies upon lies?

Are you a liar? ;)

Do you have scruples about fibbing and the occasional white lie, or can you insist on even the purest of lies without quailing? :p
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
01-07-2007, 07:47
Just thought I'd bump this one up, since we seem to have a sort of 'human nature' theme going right now. :p
Neo Undelia
01-07-2007, 08:00
Some evolutionary biologists believe that one of the reasons humans with more developed frontal lobes were able to out-reproduce other less intelligent humans was their ability to recall and extrapolate from all the lies they'd told.
Ferrous Oxide
01-07-2007, 08:03
What would a baby HAVE to lie about?

"I'm... not hungry. No. I'll just starve to death, thanks".
Arab Maghreb Union
01-07-2007, 08:03
Some evolutionary biologists believe that one of the reasons humans with more developed frontal lobes were able to out-reproduce other less intelligent humans was their ability to recall and extrapolate from all the lies they'd told.

:confused:
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
01-07-2007, 08:10
Some evolutionary biologists believe that one of the reasons humans with more developed frontal lobes were able to out-reproduce other less intelligent humans was their ability to recall and extrapolate from all the lies they'd told.

Sounds like politics have been with us from Day 1, if so. ;)
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
01-07-2007, 08:11
What would a baby HAVE to lie about?

"I'm... not hungry. No. I'll just starve to death, thanks".

According to the article, they feign distress to gain attention, for one. :p
Extreme Ironing
01-07-2007, 11:29
I always lie.
Mythotic Kelkia
01-07-2007, 11:32
where's the liar's paradox option? "I lie on NSG polls"? :p
Rubiconic Crossings
01-07-2007, 11:35
That article is chock full of lies!
Compulsive Depression
01-07-2007, 12:23
Lying should be a capital crime.
Dryks Legacy
01-07-2007, 12:34
I don't outright lie too often and usually it's about who stole the last ____. Personally I find withholding information to be more interesting and challenging. Also making stuff up completely is too hard to maintain because I either slip up or simply start laughing.
Lunatic Goofballs
01-07-2007, 12:36
I just asked my wife... uh... Morgan Fairchild! Yeah! Morgan Fairchild(whom I've had sex with) about this and we've decided that after I patent the cure for cancer, we'll give this a more thorough examination. :)
SaintB
01-07-2007, 13:08
I just asked my wife... uh... Morgan Fairchild! Yeah! Morgan Fairchild(whom I've had sex with) about this and we've decided that after I patent the cure for cancer, we'll give this a more thorough examination. :)

Now thats the ticket.
Murderous maniacs
01-07-2007, 13:34
What would a baby HAVE to lie about?

"I'm... not hungry. No. I'll just starve to death, thanks".

i was thinking more along the lines of them crying in order to get attention for attention's sake, rather than having something wrong
Call to power
01-07-2007, 13:36
I've never lied why the notion of me doing such a thing is madness!

on a related note maybe as babies we soon discover the problem with the question "do I look fat in this dress?" :D
Ashmoria
01-07-2007, 13:42
there was an article on lying in science mind last year.

the 2 things that stuck in my mind from it are that even chimpanzees lie and that they did a study where they had (college?) kids talk to strangers and in the space of a 5 (maybe it was 15) minute conversation, every kid lied, some mulitple times.

so yeah, we are born liars and we all lie all the time. we either fail to recognize our own lies or justify them as OK due to circumstances.
The Gay Street Militia
01-07-2007, 13:45
I rarely lie because I don't have the memory to be a very successful liar. When you start lying you have to remember what lies you've told and to whome, otherwise inconstencies start to sneak in and-- if people start comparing notes-- you're boned. So the truth is just way simpler-- easier to remember. Generally the only lies I tell are small, consistent, easy-to-remember exaggerations of no consequence. Big things cause way too much complication if they go wrong.
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 13:45
*...*

Are you a liar? ;)

Do you have scruples about fibbing and the occasional white lie, or can you insist on even the purest of lies without quailing? :p

I lie as well as I can when I decide to do so. No scruples at all.

I try not to lie though. A deliberate lie for bad motives (eg personal profit, or for revenge) destroys a lot of trust and you're never sure who knows it and who doesn't.

So pure self-interest (keeping the trust of others) inclines me not to lie.
Murderous maniacs
01-07-2007, 13:58
I rarely lie because I don't have the memory to be a very successful liar. When you start lying you have to remember what lies you've told and to whome, otherwise inconstencies start to sneak in and-- if people start comparing notes-- you're boned. So the truth is just way simpler-- easier to remember. Generally the only lies I tell are small, consistent, easy-to-remember exaggerations of no consequence. Big things cause way too much complication if they go wrong.

ditto, though i do occasionally not tell people things if they don't need to know it or try and sugar-coat things. that's pretty rare, though because i normally can't read people well enough to make the judgment, so i'll tell them the truth and let them deal with it
Soxsomalley
01-07-2007, 14:23
i think lying is bad and so is thiefing and although i disagree with the two of them strongly. i do do them, for instance im staying in my brothers at the moement and last night i stole some of his weed as his was nicer then my hash. it was enough for a joint. i woke up this morning sprawled on the couch with the grinder on the table and half the joint on the window sill uh-oh. i was woke as my brother came into the room in his slippers. i felt intensly guilty over the taking of it. and told him straight away that i had taken some. he talked to me afterwards( i have a bad habbit of bottling up my bad feelings and then going into a downward spiral of shame) and said it was only a small thing and that i knew i had done wrong so rather then giving out and have a bad feeling in the air we would forget about it... he gave me a fresh maade smoothies to clear up my head. i went for a walk. came back he had bought beer and gave me one. soooo i found it unusual, but i feel much better about it. i dont know if this will change me though. which is annoyiny. anyway i do tend to ramble laters
Extreme Ironing
01-07-2007, 14:34
It appears no-one found my paradoxical statement amusing, so I will post a more serious answer. Generally I try not to lie at all, though considering I'm rather sarcastic, I often don't tell the truth, but am doing so for comic effect.
Johnny B Goode
01-07-2007, 14:44
What would a baby HAVE to lie about?

"I'm... not hungry. No. I'll just starve to death, thanks".

Lolz.
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 15:00
It appears no-one found my paradoxical statement amusing, so I will post a more serious answer. Generally I try not to lie at all, though considering I'm rather sarcastic, I often don't tell the truth, but am doing so for comic effect.

Is it really "comic effect" if you're being sarcastic?

The nicest spin I can put on sarcasm is that it lets people know you feel misunderstood, without you having to tell them they have you wrong.

If you're using sarcasm a lot, chances are that people are understanding you fine ... and it's your self-perception that needs adjustment.

Care to substitute some other word for "sarcastic"?
SaintB
01-07-2007, 15:10
I lie all the time to sleep or just to get comfortable.
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 15:13
I lie all the time to sleep or just to get comfortable.

Which must be quite a challenge with all these cheap word-plays on your conscience :p
SaintB
01-07-2007, 15:16
Which must be quite a challenge with all these cheap word-plays on your conscience :p

Oh, you don't know the half of it. I'm tired... I thought it would be clever...
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 15:37
Oh, you don't know the half of it. I'm tired... I thought it would be clever...

... and then you woke up handcuffed to a sheep, in your city's rail terminal?

:D
SaintB
01-07-2007, 15:46
... and then you woke up handcuffed to a sheep, in your city's rail terminal?

:D

I don't have a rail terminal in my town.. it was the middle of the shopping mall, on a saturday... at noon....
Kashmiriren
01-07-2007, 15:53
I always lie.

If you always lie, you could be lying right now, which would mean that you might only lie sometimes. Hah.
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 17:31
I always lie.

Well, that is extremely ironic.

*bows*
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 17:37
I don't have a rail terminal in my town.. it was the middle of the shopping mall, on a saturday... at noon....

Meh, anyone with any sense would still be in bed. Your reputation is safe ...

unless there are pictures?
Curious Inquiry
01-07-2007, 17:56
Lying should be a capital crime.
And the capitol is where so much lying goes on :p
The blessed Chris
01-07-2007, 17:58
I'd love to say I don't lie, but I do. I refuse to believe that I am only poster who says what is most beneficial, as opposed to what is true, in most social situations.
Compulsive Depression
01-07-2007, 18:09
Is it really "comic effect" if you're being sarcastic?

The nicest spin I can put on sarcasm is that it lets people know you feel misunderstood, without you having to tell them they have you wrong.

If you're using sarcasm a lot, chances are that people are understanding you fine ... and it's your self-perception that needs adjustment.

Care to substitute some other word for "sarcastic"?

I don't understand what you mean here. Sorry.

I did like your "extreme irony" pun, though :)
Nobel Hobos
01-07-2007, 19:57
I don't understand what you mean here. Sorry.

I grew up in a sarcastic household, so I've got a complicated idea of what sarcasm is.


Sarcasm
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm

Irony is a catch-all for statements which don't have their literal meaning. But sarcasm is usually nasty, and it's usually directed at someone, whose perceptions are parodied in a mean and disparaging way.

Other words which might apply: "chimeral," "ironic," "a devil's advocate," "kidding" or "limit testing."

I might be airing my own prejudices here, but to me "sarcasm" seems more personal, more of an attacking thing, than just being lighthearted or insincere.

"Websters" heh :)
Copiosa Scotia
01-07-2007, 19:59
I always lie.

Not actually paradoxical.
Extreme Ironing
01-07-2007, 20:00
Is it really "comic effect" if you're being sarcastic?

The nicest spin I can put on sarcasm is that it lets people know you feel misunderstood, without you having to tell them they have you wrong.

If you're using sarcasm a lot, chances are that people are understanding you fine ... and it's your self-perception that needs adjustment.

Care to substitute some other word for "sarcastic"?

Often the use of sarcasm includes exaggeration, that's what creates the comic effect. Other than that, my habit for literally answering things like 'Can you pass the salt?' or 'What are you watching?', in a manner similar to Airplane and Police Squad, is kind of what I was meaning.

Well, that is extremely ironic.

*bows*

:p
Compulsive Depression
01-07-2007, 20:08
@Nobel Hobos: Aha, gotcha.
Dakini
01-07-2007, 21:10
I rarely lie because I don't have the memory to be a very successful liar. When you start lying you have to remember what lies you've told and to whome, otherwise inconstencies start to sneak in and-- if people start comparing notes-- you're boned. So the truth is just way simpler-- easier to remember. Generally the only lies I tell are small, consistent, easy-to-remember exaggerations of no consequence. Big things cause way too much complication if they go wrong.
What sorts of conversations are they? I mean, if it's like "we'll have a conversation where this stranger hits on you..." then I'd be lying my ass off if I was single.
Extreme Ironing
01-07-2007, 22:12
I grew up in a sarcastic household, so I've got a complicated idea of what sarcasm is.



Irony is a catch-all for statements which don't have their literal meaning. But sarcasm is usually nasty, and it's usually directed at someone, whose perceptions are parodied in a mean and disparaging way.

Other words which might apply: "chimeral," "ironic," "a devil's advocate," "kidding" or "limit testing."

I might be airing my own prejudices here, but to me "sarcasm" seems more personal, more of an attacking thing, than just being lighthearted or insincere.

"Websters" heh :)

Hmm, a difference of understanding of the term it is, I use it more variedly, not always to mean 'nasty' and 'personal attacks', though sometimes I do act like that it's rare.
Unlucky_and_unbiddable
02-07-2007, 00:03
I lie all the time to sleep or just to get comfortable.

:p
Lemon Enders
02-07-2007, 01:23
The reasons why humans are "Liars" is because we get in trouble for stuff, and in order to avoid being punished humans lie.
Zarakon
02-07-2007, 01:34
So what do you think? Are we hard-wired to lie to eachother? Can there ever be true understanding, or are our interactions just complicated sets of lies upon lies?

No.

*averts eyes*
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
02-07-2007, 04:42
I'd love to say I don't lie, but I do. I refuse to believe that I am only poster who says what is most beneficial, as opposed to what is true, in most social situations.

You don't need to refuse much, since it seems to be the trend. ;)

Interesting responses, and especially so, since I thought this thread had died last night. :)
Thumbless Pete Crabbe
02-07-2007, 04:43
No.

*averts eyes*

No, we can't achieve understanding, or "no, we're not hard-wired to lie?" Tricky two-part questions. :p