NationStates Jolt Archive

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

Islam as as much of a cult as Christianity and Judaism.

Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

I reckon you're well on your way to becoming yet another Muslim-hating bigot who isn't worthy of my respect.

there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims

Yeah? How many? Compared to the global Muslim population. You'll find that it's less than 1%... much less. But don't let facts get in the way of the convenience of making stupid, hateful generalizations.

I reckon that you've always thought that Islam is a violent cult and always will.

After all, if you can consider Christianity to be a peaceful religion then reality obviously has no bearing on your opinion.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?I know Muslims tend to be small, isolated minorities in the countries NSGers tend to live in. But really.

Ever frown over how retarded and utterly irrational US dread over social democratic movements are? Ever laughed in outrage at the manner in countries like Israel, France and Ameriica are presented in the media?

This is no different. I know a lot of Muslims. My wife is Muslim. I even know some really fucked up, fanatical Muslims. But the only violent Muslims I've met in my entire life, are gangbangers. And that has nothing to do with religion. Theirs is a product of political poverty and drugs, mostly.

I reckon you're well on your way to becoming yet another Muslim-hating bigot who isn't worthy of my respect.



Yeah? How many? Compared to the global Muslim population. You'll find that it's less than 1%... much less. But don't let facts get in the way of the convenience of making stupid, hateful generalizations.

Right well it would seem you're going to judge and hate anyone who says anything negative about Islam, so this is for the rest of the posters:

I know other religions have done horrible things. But time after time, explosions are done by Islamic extremists. Compare all the explosions (and that's just the reported ones) with the explosions done in the name of other religions.

And what's not a cult?

AMWAY's a cult. MTV's a cult. Paris Hilton's a cult ( well,... you know what I mean). Star Wars' a cult. NSG's a cult... etc.

I reckon that you've always thought that Islam is a violent cult and always will.

After all, if you can consider Christianity to be a peaceful religion then reality obviously has no bearing on your opinion.

I actually made a post on my blog about how I thought it was a peaceful religion. But there just seems to be more and more carnage done in the name of Islam, which is why I'm having my doubts.

As for Christianity, by "peaceful" I meant even though they may act a bit irrational sometimes and tell people they're going to hell and stuff, they don't seem to carry out loads of explosions

The crazies don't represent everybody.

Yeah? How many? Compared to the global Muslim population. You'll find that it's less than 1%... much less. But don't let facts get in the way of the convenience of making stupid, hateful generalizations.

What about the percentage that actually support attacks?

What about the percentage that actually support attacks?

They're swallowed by those who don't really care.

Islam is religion based on obedience through fear and power. They serve a god which hates pagans, transgressors, sinners, and their prophet claims that their is no compulsion in religion, but in the hadith(his sayings) says that apostates need to be killed. Mohammad told his wife, Kahdija that he believed his visions were demoniacally inspired. And Muslims follow this man? I love my muslim brothers and sisters, and admire their devotion to God, but dang.

Right well it would seem you're going to judge and hate anyone who says anything negative about Islam

Oh, poor you. Can't even spread hate propaganda without getting called on it. Cry me a fucking river.


I know other religions have done horrible things. But time after time, explosions are done by Islamic extremists. Compare all the explosions (and that's just the reported ones) with the explosions done in the name of other religions.

Compare the explosions with the amount of non-explosions. Oops, there's that little thing called "reality" getting in the way of hatemongering again.

Islam is religion based on obedience through fear and power. They serve a god which hates pagans, transgressors, sinners, and their prophet claims that their is no compulsion in religion, but in the hadith(his sayings) says that apostates need to be killed. Mohammad told his wife, Kahdija that he believed his visions were demoniacally inspired. And Muslims follow this man? I love my muslim brothers and sisters, and admire their devotion to God, but dang.

Christianity is based on blind faith and obedience to a God that has some major ego problems. Their God hates all sinners, especially the unmarried homosexual type and any one else who generally wants to think for themselves. The religion preaches tolerance and understanding but if you don't buy into it, you're going to hell even if you're a good person.

See, works both ways.

Right well it would seem you're going to judge and hate anyone who says anything negative about Islam, so this is for the rest of the posters:

I know other religions have done horrible things. But time after time, explosions are done by Islamic extremists. Compare all the explosions (and that's just the reported ones) with the explosions done in the name of other religions.

I actually made a post on my blog about how I thought it was a peaceful religion. But there just seems to be more and more carnage done in the name of Islam, which is why I'm having my doubts.

As for Christianity, by "peaceful" I meant even though they may act a bit irrational sometimes and tell people they're going to hell and stuff, they don't seem to carry out loads of explosions

If the Inquisition could have exploded heretics, they would have. The Crusaders would have loved having explosives too.

And really, trying to limit comparisons to how many explosions have been carried out is a poor and obvious attempt to bias the whole thread in your favour.

What about the percentage that actually support attacks?

I imagine they're about the same percentage of Americans who supported the unjust war on Iraq and shrugged off the civilian casualties and torture and murder and rape. The ones about which you and others don't claim "Aha! America is nothing but a violent cult," because hey it's not as fun.

Is Multiland always like this? Cuz, I don't remember anything at all.

I reckon that you've always thought that Islam is a violent cult and always will.

After all, if you can consider Christianity to be a peaceful religion then reality obviously has no bearing on your opinion.

Christianity as a religion= Full of fail

Living as Christ did= peaceful life.

Living as mohammed= life of revenge.

Seriously the moderate muslims are better people than mohammed, and his friends ever were.

I know other religions have done horrible things. But time after time, explosions are done by Islamic extremists. Compare all the explosions (and that's just the reported ones) with the explosions done in the name of other religions.Europe and the US have, to be blunt, engineered more than a century of pure hell in almost every Muslim nation on the planet. The only exceptions are the ones Russia have exploited the fuck out of for equally long. And we're all still at it full swing.

Possibly the biggest impact this has had, is the social one. Freedom of thought and expression, education and the leasure time for intellectual persuits are only just barely starting to surface in a select few places, after a century of absence.

At the same time, we've put in what can only really be considered facist regimes in all the countries that didn't manage to do it to themselves. Furthering the negative impacts of the lacking freedom, and adding to the systematic eradication of generations of social, religious and political moderates.

There's nothing mysterious about the hate and intolerance we've created. It couldn't have been done anymore expertly if it was by design. It's tempting to think it is, sometimes.

.... Oh why bother. Go on. Hate people if you have to. I'm sure the few who fit your fucked stereotype wants you to. It aids their agenda, after all.

Christianity is based on blind faith and obedience to a God that has some major ego problems. Their God hates all sinners, especially the unmarried homosexual type and any one else who generally wants to think for themselves. The religion preaches tolerance and understanding but if you don't buy into it, you're going to hell even if you're a good person.

See, works both ways.

Too bad our leader, Jesus Christ NEVER advocated the killing of anyone, called for acceptance of the sinners, and so on. Read the words of Christ vs the words of Mohammed. You'll see a clear difference.

Seriously the moderate muslims are better people than mohammed, and his friends ever were.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree to that on the grounds that would not get me brownie points on getting my free sex in the afterlife.

More people in history have been killed from Christians than Muslums, (or I should say those who abuse Christianity and Islam) but many Muslims are foreign so they are evil devils :upyours:

Oh, poor you. Can't even spread hate propaganda without getting called on it. Cry me a fucking river.



Compare the explosions with the amount of non-explosions. Oops, there's that little thing called "reality" getting in the way of hatemongering again.

If you actually read what I'd written, instead of seeing "Muslim + comment that doesn't say it's brilliant = hateful stupid person" then you'd know I wasn't spreading hate propaganda.

Oh and compare the amount of non-explosions in Islam with the amount in other religions, or just continue to occupy your time hating anyone who doesn't agree with your view, doesn't bother me if you want to waste your time and energy.

Too bad our leader, Jesus Christ NEVER advocated the killing of anyone, called for acceptance of the sinners, and so on. Read the words of Christ vs the words of Mohammed. You'll see a clear difference.

Just because Jesus didn't advocate for the killing of others doesn't mean anything when the religion itself has been twisted and perverted into the faith it is due to the nature of its followers.

Read this article (http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm) if you think that Christians cannot be violent.

And think on this -- are there any other differences between Muslims in the Middle East and Christians in the West? Anything with regards to their economy or their safety or their environment? Is there even the slightest chance that this could be just as effective in promoting the use of violence and terror among Muslims as their religion?

If you actually read what I'd written, instead of seeing "Muslim + comment that doesn't say it's brilliant = hateful stupid person" then you'd know I wasn't spreading hate propaganda.

Oh, right. How silly of me. What you wrote. OK.

Islam is a violent cult after all.

Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

"violent cult" =/= "it's not brilliant"

Care to try again, this time using your higher brain functions?

Too bad our leader, Jesus Christ NEVER advocated the killing of anyone, called for acceptance of the sinners, and so on. Read the words of Christ vs the words of Mohammed. You'll see a clear difference.

Since when do Christians follow Jesus' teachings?

Too bad our leader, Jesus Christ NEVER advocated the killing of anyone, called for acceptance of the sinners, and so on. Read the words of Christ vs the words of Mohammed. You'll see a clear difference.

And even still, there have been countless deaths in the name of Christianity.

Maybe, and I'm sure this will sounds like an insane idea, but maybe it has nothing to do with either religion. Maybe some people are just hateful bastards who would join any group if they could get a "them" to aim their hatred at and an "us" who would share that hatred.

Nah, couldn't be. I'm sure people like Multiland are right, and all those filthy Islamofascists are just out to kill us because they're jealous of our freedom.

If the Inquisition could have exploded heretics, they would have. The Crusaders would have loved having explosives too.

And really, trying to limit comparisons to how many explosions have been carried out is a poor and obvious attempt to bias the whole thread in your favour.

These are things that happened LOADS of years ago. I'm referring to recent stuff.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?
I must reluctantly concur, i would really LIKE to live in a peacefull world
where everyone loveds puppies and children and everyone gets along and shared their ham sandwiches, but we don't we live in a world full of greedy pricks and religious zealots, i dont know if its even accurate to say MOST Christians aren't violent, look at the ku klux klan and Anti Abortionists that bomb clinics , but you can't say atheists are peaceful either communists were pretty violent and they killled more people than the inquistion or the Crusades, but right now in our world Muslims are the trouble makers not communists or Christians.

I imagine they're about the same percentage of Americans who supported the unjust war on Iraq and shrugged off the civilian casualties and torture and murder and rape. The ones about which you and others don't claim "Aha! America is nothing but a violent cult," because hey it's not as fun.

The majority of Americans do not support gitmo or any mal treatment of civilians. Yet you just admitted a large portion of muslims do support aforementioned mal treatment, thanks.

I believe Multi is very entitled to his opinion. Please everyone, if someone is not being totally liberal pc, are we supposed to flame him like crazy? So that I do not want to be flamed , I will replace Christian with Western and Muslim with middle eastern....

Can you think of ANY Western leader that would declare a neighboring countries entire citizen base should be killed? Do you have Western leaders encouraging :sniper: of civilians? And westerners do not organize militia's to :mp5: infidels...


Good points on both sides, but seriously I believe Muslim people have shown a tendency to be more.. violent.

Oh, right. How silly of me. What you wrote. OK.



"violent cult" =/= "it's not brilliant"

Care to try again, this time using your higher brain functions?

On a positive note, you'd make a brilliant lawyer. Great at twisting words. You know very well you've just cut off the proceeding parts of those things and made them into individual out-of-context sentences.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

Islam has a billion adherents.

It's not a cult.

Just because Jesus didn't advocate for the killing of others doesn't mean anything when the religion itself has been twisted and perverted into the faith it is due to the nature of its followers.

and as I have said time and time again, Christ never advocated that his teachings be turned into religion. He came to free us from religion, so that we may have a relationship with God, as it was intended in our creation. His sayings are clear. Love God first, and then love all others, those that live by violence will die, do not judge etc... His teachings are clear, so you can't blame what so called followers do in his name.

However, you look at Islam, and see how Muslims are instructed to kill pagans, they are told that killing is okay, in defense, or when a person insults the prophet or islam( as was the case with several pagan poets that were killed by mohammed's closest followers in that day and age). His message was clear. Allah, loves those that love him, and fear him, but hates all others. Therefore, its okay to kill pagans, apostates, and anyone who insults islam. the people of the book, while having dhimmi status, must pay a yearly tax(while muslims didn't) to ensure they will receive protection and safety for theirs homes, places or worship, and so on.

So what you have is Christ, who is God in flesh, that loves the whole world, and shows so by coming and dying, or you have Allah, a God that loves those that love Him, and hates all others. I'm sure you can see the difference

And no, I am not an Islamophobe. The last year of my life, I have surrounded my self with Muslims, islamic culture, literature, and so on. I see Islam for what it is, and not from some sugar coated viewpoint. I also see what the Christian religion is, and its just as bad. Religion only separates people further from God, instills fear and hate of others, and is all around a bad life. This is why I have turned away from Christianity as it is, and embrace Christ's words as more than just doctrine, but rather a lifestyle.

Since when do Christians follow Jesus' teachings?

Brilliant!

that's going on my sig if you don't mind

The majority of Americans do not support gitmo or any mal treatment of civilians. Yet you just admitted a large portion of muslims do support aforementioned mal treatment, thanks.

I did not admit any such thing. I acknowledged that there ARE a minority of "supporters" in each group, but that people like you and Multi only use one group's minority to denounce and hate the entire group. Nice try, but your own inability to comprehend what I say does not constitute a valid argument.

On a positive note, you'd make a brilliant lawyer. Great at twisting words. You know very well you've just cut off the proceeding parts of those things and made them into individual out-of-context sentences.

Twisting words, my ass. I copied and pasted your words directly. The "context" doesn't change anything. This whole thread of yours is just Muslim-hating.

If I'd make a brilliant lawyer, it's because I can read.

Oh, come on, it's not a cult.

It's just a stupid nasty ideology.

The world would be a better place had that pedophile never lived.

I believe Multi is very entitled to his opinion.
Nobody has suggested otherwise
Please everyone, if someone is not being totally liberal pc, are we supposed to flame him like crazy? So that I do not want to be flamed , I will replace Christian with Western and Muslim with middle eastern....
Yes, we have a problem with him judging a billion people based on the actions of a few thousand because he's not being liberal enough or pc enough. :rolleyes:

It's certainly not that we just think he's wrong to do that, oh no. :rolleyes:

Can you think of ANY Western leader that would declare a neighboring countries entire citizen base should be killed?
Hitler.
Do you have Western leaders encouraging :sniper: of civilians?
Again, Hitler.
And westerners do not organize militia's to :mp5: infidels...
No, they organise militias because they're afraid that the evil brown people will come and try and take their guns away.


Good points on both sides, but seriously I believe Muslim people have shown a tendency to be more.. violent.

No, they haven't. You just want to believe they have so you're ignoring the huge amount of muslims who aren't terrorists.

And even still, there have been countless deaths in the name of Christianity.

Maybe, and I'm sure this will sounds like an insane idea, but maybe it has nothing to do with either religion. Maybe some people are just hateful bastards who would join any group if they could get a "them" to aim their hatred at and an "us" who would share that hatred.

Nah, couldn't be. I'm sure people like Multiland are right, and all those filthy Islamofascists are just out to kill us because they're jealous of our freedom.


NO! It has everything to do with religion. And you know what? If Christ was here right here, right now, he'd reject Christianity,and tell us what He really wanted for our lives. He'd tell us that those that follow religion have their rewards here and now, but those that follow his life, as their own, will have their reward forever.

The majority of Americans do not support gitmo or any mal treatment of civilians. Yet you just admitted a large portion of muslims do support aforementioned mal treatment, thanks.Pathetic spin. He didn't say they supported it, he said they shrug it off - just like Americans (and most Europeans for that matter).

Considering the silly shit I get banned for, I'm amazed creative flaming like that haven't gotten you deated.

I actually made a post on my blog about how I thought it was a peaceful religion. But there just seems to be more and more carnage done in the name of Islam, which is why I'm having my doubts.

As for Christianity, by "peaceful" I meant even though they may act a bit irrational sometimes and tell people they're going to hell and stuff, they don't seem to carry out loads of explosions

You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Zara
and more...

We are quite possibly the most violent religion in history.

NO! It has everything to do with religion.<evangelism snip>

How so?

Again, Hitler.

Add in Churchhill. The bombing of Dresden? Anyone remember that? And the Amritsar Massacre, which wasn't even against an enemy country.

I did not admit any such thing. I acknowledged that there ARE a minority of "supporters" in each group, but that people like you and Multi only use one group's minority to denounce and hate the entire group. Nice try, but your own inability to comprehend what I say does not constitute a valid argument.


I don't hate muslims. But I don't think Islam is a particularly great religion (I don't really like religion in general, but am least sympathetic to Islam). I assume you believe that a large portion of Americans support the war, so you therefore believe that a large portion of muslims support terrorism.

Pathetic spin. He didn't say they supported it, he said they shrug it off - just like Americans (and most Europeans for that matter).

Considering the silly shit I get banned for, I'm amazed creative flaming like that haven't gotten you deated.

Then report me. I assure you it's within the rules.

I did not admit any such thing. I acknowledged that there ARE a minority of "supporters" in each group, but that people like you and Multi only use one group's minority to denounce and hate the entire group. Nice try, but your own inability to comprehend what I say does not constitute a valid argument.



Twisting words, my ass. I copied and pasted your words directly. The "context" doesn't change anything. This whole thread of yours is just Muslim-hating.

If I'd make a brilliant lawyer, it's because I can read.

You copied and pasted bits that were part of sentences and made them into their own individual sentences, so that the meaning changed entirely. If you don't want to admit it, people can always read my original post.

Add in Churchhill. The bombing of Dresden? Anyone remember that? And the Amritsar Massacre, which wasn't even against an enemy country.

:confused:

That was a little more than a decade before Churchill took office...

How so?

Perhaps you should read my previous responses in this thread? Religion is based on fear and domination. Christ preached that we live the opposite of such.

I don't hate muslims. But I don't think Islam is a particularly great religion (I don't really like religion in general, but am least sympathetic to Islam).

Sympathetic, but so quick to defend generalizations against it. I smell fish.

I assume you believe that a large portion of Americans support the war, so you therefore believe that a large portion of muslims support terrorism.

You assume wrong. Again, you're trying real hard to make it seem like I "admit" that a "large portion" of Muslims are terrorist supporters. Look, my analogy was clearly too much for you, just move on from it, OK?

You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Zara
and more...

We are quite possibly the most violent religion in history.

Again, OLD stuff, not recent

Brilliant!

that's going on my sig if you don't mind

W00t!
I've never been sigged before...
...that I know of. ;)

:confused:

That was a little more than a decade before Churchill took office...

The Dresden bombings were under Churchill. The Amritsar massacre was carried about the noble and perfect and not at all flawed British Imperial soldier Reginald Dyer. What's your point?

Haha. Christianity peaceful?
What about them crusades, eh?
(No doubt somebody has already raised this point.)

I'm Christian, and my father was brought up Muslim.
Basically, my point is every religion may appear violent and hateful because those are the means used by radicals to get their message out.

Radicals also happen to be the people who get noticed, and their stances reflect on the entire religion.
Go figure.

I don't care to be associated with George Bush, who has used the name of Christiany to do a lot of things I don't agree with.

There's no reason then to lump together all the Muslims in the world, and assume that all of them think it's a fabulous idea to fly plains into big buildings.

In fact, most of them want peace, love, and understanding (haha) as much as we do.

You copied and pasted bits that were part of sentences and made them into their own individual sentences, so that the meaning changed entirely. If you don't want to admit it, people can always read my original post.

*sigh* Yes, let's.

Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

Ooh, you compared Islam being violent with how Christianity is peaceful! That sure does change the fact that you said it's violent! How cruel of me it was to ignore this!

as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all.

Oooh, you generalized that because there are Muslims who make attacks, Islam is a violent cult! That sure does change the fact that I dared to accuse you of saying Islam is a violent cult! A thousand apologies upon your family name, good sir/ma'am, for I have clearly misrepresented you in a dastardly attempt to sully your good reputation!

Next.

Sympathetic, but so quick to defend generalizations against it. I smell fish.


You misread. I am least sympathetic, not at least sympathetic.


You assume wrong. Again, you're trying real hard to make it seem like I "admit" that a "large portion" of Muslims are terrorist supporters. Look, my analogy was clearly too much for you, just move on from it, OK?

"I imagine they're about the same percentage of Americans who supported the unjust war on Iraq "

Thats what you said.

Then report me.Unless you take up paedophilia or something, you can rely on me not to do that.I assure you it's within the rules.I'll take your word for it, but remain unimpressed by it. Anyway, i didn't want to hijack or attack you or anything. I just thought it was sinking a bit low.

.. Of course, it's in a thread slagging my wife, half the people i see every day and a 6th of the peoples of Earth, so I might have overreacted.

Again, OLD stuff, not recent

So? The only reason we're not crusading now is because modernism, the protestant reformation, and the age of enlightenment pretty much sapped the Church's power. The Vatican has to pretend it's benevolent in order to keep it's place in the world.

*sigh* Yes, let's.



Ooh, you compared Islam being violent with how Christianity is peaceful! That sure does change the fact that you said it's violent! How cruel of me it was to ignore this!



Oooh, you generalized that because there are Muslims who make attacks, Islam is a violent cult! That sure does change the fact that I dared to accuse you of saying Islam is a violent cult! A thousand apologies upon your family name, good sir/ma'am, for I have clearly misrepresented you in a dastardly attempt to sully your good reputation!

Next.

I'm just gonna leave you to it before you call me stupid, hateful, and a bigot again for not thinking Islam's perfect, for having a view that's different from yours, and for not interpreting my words in a way that suits a narrow-minded view rather than reading the ACTUAL words as they were written down. Sheesh, this is probably how religion got so screwed up. But I still love ya in any case, and everyone else.

.. Of course, it's in a thread slagging my wife, half the people i see every day and a 6th of the peoples of Earth, so I might have overreacted.

I'm not slagging off Muslims, just the religion of Islam.

.. Of course, it's in a thread slagging my wife, half the people i see every day and a 6th of the peoples of Earth, so I might have overreacted.

Wait, your wife is muslim? Are you? If not, then i have a REALLY hard time believing that a muslim woman would go again Islam and marry a kuffar or PoB.

You misread. I am least sympathetic, not at least sympathetic.I can't blame you for that, but basically, it's poverty, isolation, lack of information and lack of freedom you should blame. For the many who do support attacking various nations and peoples, religion is mostly a tool to inforce some fucked up sense of fascistoid nationalism. Yups. I know far more of those tools than I ever wanted to."I imagine they're about the same percentage of Americans who supported the unjust war on Iraq "

Thats what you said.It's because you're either being too simplistic, or not simplistic enough. A lot of Muslims do support attacking peoples and places using means most of us would call terrorism. The only Muslims I know of who favour killing and maiming infidels for the sake of it, are the ones on the news. I doubt there's more than 1-200,000 of those worldwide.

But attacking us. Sure. I'm guessing some 30% of the lot favour doing that. Much like some 30% of us favours bombing the snot out of every Muslim dominated country on the planet. And just like in our countries, it's the 30% fucked up psychos that hold the power.

EDIT: Zilam you'll just have to take my word for it. But yes, it's been complicated.

EDIT: Zilam you'll just have to take my word for it. But yes, it's been complicated.

The only i bring it up, is that I made the mistake of asking a muslim girl out once. She said she liked me, but couldn't unless i reverted to islam. I was like...dang. She was darn cute too. Good luck with that man.

The only i bring it up, is that I made the mistake of asking a muslim girl out once. She said she liked me, but couldn't unless i reverted to islam. I was like...dang. She was darn cute too. Good luck with that man.

Happened to me too. She told me she liked me, flirted with me, but said she couldn't be my girlfriend unless I converted to Islam.

The only i bring it up, is that I made the mistake of asking a muslim girl out once. She said she liked me, but couldn't unless i reverted to islam. I was like...dang. She was darn cute too. Good luck with that man.Damn.. I really don't want to hijack. Don't tempt me man :p

Anyway, you're - as always - welcome to PM me Zilam. Home alone on a Saturday and very recently married, I'm pretty sure there's nothing I'd rather rant your fucking ears off about ;)

I can't blame you for that, but basically, it's poverty, isolation, lack of information and lack of freedom you should blame. For the many who do support attacking various nations and peoples, religion is mostly a tool to inforce some fucked up sense of fascistoid nationalism. Yups. I know far more of those tools than I ever wanted to.It's because you're either being too simplistic, or not simplistic enough. A lot of Muslims do support attacking peoples and places using means most of us would call terrorism. The only Muslims I know of who favour killing and maiming infidels for the sake of it, are the ones on the news. I doubt there's more than 1-200,000 of those worldwide.


Well statistics show otherwise IIRC. The point is, religion and especially Islam makes it very easy to justify "fascistoid nationalism", as well as many other things. I just don't understand why people defend Islam, when it's clearly the driving force behind much of these attrocities.


But attacking us. Sure. I'm guessing some 30% of the lot favour doing that. Much like some 30% of us favours bombing the snot out of every Muslim dominated country on the planet.

Lets say around 50% of neocons support this. Now for this sort of thing you would attack neocon politics right? So why not attack fundamentalist Islam as well?

Perhaps you should read my previous responses in this thread? Religion is based on fear and domination. Christ preached that we live the opposite of such.

I wasn't talking about religion in general, which is a debate for another thread, I was talking about people using religion as a mask and outlet for their own hatred, and it seemed like you were disagreeing with that.

Christianity is based on blind faith and obedience to a God that has some major ego problems. Their God hates all sinners, especially the unmarried homosexual type and any one else who generally wants to think for themselves. The religion preaches tolerance and understanding but if you don't buy into it, you're going to hell even if you're a good person.


God hates sin, not sinners. God loved all us sinners enough to die for us. The onus is on us. Do we accept or reject his offer.

Christianity, especially Catholicism, is just as or more cult like as Islam.

God hates sin, not sinners. God loved all us sinners enough to die for us. The onus is on us. Do we accept or reject his offer.

He was making a point about misrepresenting religion, not commenting seriously. I think.

Christianity, especially Catholicism, is just as or more cult like as Islam.

Neither Christianity nor Islam are anything like a cult. They may have started off like one, but are certainly not like one now.

God hates sin, not sinners. God loved all us sinners enough to die for us. The onus is on us. Do we accept or reject his offer.

Reject.

This has been your edition of "Ask a rhetorical question, get a real answer!"

Neither Christianity nor Islam are anything like a cult. They may have started off like one, but are certainly not like one now.

Actually, they brainwash followers, and, in the case of catholicism, are led by an authority who is the unquestionable voice of god.

PLEASE explain to my why Christianity/Catholicism are NOT cults with a lot of members?

Well statistics show otherwise IIRC.I'm not clear on what this pertains to?The point is, religion and especially Islam makes it very easy to justify "fascistoid nationalism", as well as many other things.Yes. It's a very handy tool. Has been for at least 2,000 years, and probably 3 times that.I just don't understand why people defend Islam, when it's clearly the driving force behind much of these attrocities.That contradicts what you just said. If religion is simply a means to enforce nationalistic bollocks, then the problem is the agenda and those who use the religion to enforce it. You can't blame it on the religion that it is used and subverted. Or at least, it makes no more sense than blaming plane fuel for Hiroshima.Lets say around 50% of neocons support this. Now for this sort of thing you would attack neocon politics right? So why not attack fundamentalist Islam as well?Both my wife and I are vocal in our opposition to those wankers, but I have to admit that both of us feel we have better things to do than dedicate all our free time to publicly decry either group.

Islam is not the cult. Al Qaedism is the cult. We are at war with Al Qaedism, not with Islam.

Reject.

This has been your edition of "Ask a rhetorical question, get a real answer!"

Why?

Actually, they brainwash followers, and, in the case of catholicism, are led by an authority who is the unquestionable voice of god.

PLEASE explain to my why Christianity/Catholicism are NOT cults with a lot of members?

In religion and sociology, a cult is a term designating a cohesive group of people (generally, but not exclusively a relatively small and recently founded religious movement[1]) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be outside the mainstream.

So, all in all, there are about 3 billion followers of the Abrahamic religions. How, exactly, are they outside the mainstream?

Actually, they brainwash followers, and, in the case of catholicism, are led by an authority who is the unquestionable voice of god.


Thats not true. They don't tend to brainwash followers (except for a few christian sub cults), and Pope is only infallible in certain events. Apparently the vatican has only used this infallibility twice, unfortunately one of them was their ruling on contraceptives.

I'm not clear on what this pertains to?


That Islam has created a very violent culture in the middle east?


That contradicts what you just said. If religion is simply a means to enforce nationalistic bollocks, then the problem is the agenda and those who use the religion to enforce it. You can't blame it on the religion that it is used and subverted. Or at least, it makes no more sense than blaming plane fuel for Hiroshima.


With Islam though, it seems to be the cor reason behind much of the middle east's nationlism, as well as a very major driving force behind terrorist groups (though not the only one). It seems to be more then just a justification tool.


Both my wife and I are vocal in our opposition to those wankers, but I have to admit that both of us feel we have better things to do than dedicate all our free time to publicly decry either group.

Yeah same. I never really do that shit anyway. At least not outside of NSG.

Why?

Because I don't answer the requests of any imaginary being other than the trix rabbit.

Wait, your wife is muslim? Are you? If not, then i have a REALLY hard time believing that a muslim woman would go again Islam and marry a kuffar or PoB.

Good thing Sim and wifey are not in a muslim majority country. Because, per Islamic laws, muslim women cannot marry non-muslim man (unless he converts before marriage). It won't be a recognized marriage and they may be stoned for zina.

That Islam has created a very violent culture in the middle east?How can statistics show something like that? And even if you can somehow pull that magic trick off, doing it in a vacuum that ignores all the social, political and economic reasons that you can plainly see created this fucked up environment, if you bother to read up on history, seems just a tad dishonest.With Islam though, it seems to be the cor reason behind much of the middle east's nationlism, as well as a very major driving force behind terrorist groups (though not the only one). It seems to be more then just a justification tool.What makes you believe this? I know Muslims who'd call that revisionism, and unlike you, they don't have the benefit of not being burdened by ingrained bias.Yeah same. I never really do that shit anyway. At least not outside of NSG.Ah, well at least we're not that lazy ;)

EDIT:

Good thing Sim and wifey are not in a muslim majority country. Because, per Islamic laws, muslim women cannot marry non-muslim man (unless he converts before marriage). It won't be a recognized marriage and they may be stoned for zina.That's only true some places, but between fucked up second class citenships and social stigma, it wasn't possible for us. Different in principle, effectively the same shit. I'm pretty sure I posted a rather frustrated rant about it on here at the time.

Good thing Sim and wifey are not in a muslim majority country. Because, per Islamic laws, muslim women cannot marry non-muslim man (unless he converts before marriage). It won't be a recognized marriage and they may be stoned for zina.

Good old Islamic law aye?

Good old Islamic law aye?

Of course, if we followed a set of laws based on the Christian Bible, do you know what would be legal and illegal? Let's take a look:

1. Selling your daughter into slavery would be legal.
2. Gay men will be stoned to death.
3. Disobedient children will be stoned to death.
4. People who eat shellfish will be stoned to death.


I can go on, if you're interested.

How can statistics show something like that? And even if you can somehow pull that magic trick off, doing it in a vacuum that ignores all the social, political and economic reasons that you can plainly see created this fucked up environment, if you bother to read up on history, seems just a tad dishonest.


I don't think being opressed and in poverty makes you have anti western terrorist sympathies, unless it's the west thats doing the opression.


What makes you believe this? I know Muslims who'd call that revisionism, and unlike you, they don't have the benefit of not being burdened by ingrained bias.


Islamic law wouldn't exist without Islam. Groups like Al Qaida who go around fucking up the middle east wouldn't be doing this without their alleged divine right. They are motivated by the Quran, where they want to enforce it.

He was making a point about misrepresenting religion, not commenting seriously. I think.

Precisely.

Reject.

This has been your edition of "Ask a rhetorical question, get a real answer!"

:)

I'm just gonna leave you to it before you call me stupid, hateful, and a bigot again for not thinking Islam's perfect

There you go again with that strawman. Gonna get tired of it any time soon?

, for having a view that's different from yours

Plenty of people have different views from mine but are not bigots. Sorry, but that's another idiotic strawman.

, and for not interpreting my words in a way that suits a narrow-minded view rather than reading the ACTUAL words as they were written down.

I read - and posted - and re-posted - your ACTUAL words as they were written down. And they are bigoted and hateful. Sorry if the truth upsets you, buddy.

I thought Multiland was susspose to be a Wiccan, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Wicca teach tolerances and respect for other religion?

I thought Multiland was susspose to be a Wiccan, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Wicca teach tolerances and respect for other religion?
Hey, at least it lets him know what a cult is, no?

I thought Multiland was susspose to be a Wiccan, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Wicca teach tolerances and respect for other religion?

Yeah, but I think it's one of the many, many, many religious doctrines that are followed strictly, strictly meaning "When the person feels like it."

Of course, if we followed a set of laws based on the Christian Bible, do you know what would be legal and illegal? Let's take a look:

1. Selling your daughter into slavery would be legal.
2. Gay men will be stoned to death.
3. Disobedient children will be stoned to death.
4. People who eat shellfish will be stoned to death.


I can go on, if you're interested.

You seem to be confusing christianity with a belief that you must follow Jewish scripture.

Hey, at least it lets him know what a cult is, no?

Again, the only difference between Wicca and Catholicism (Besides the fact that Wicca's views are somewhat less absurd and authoritarian) is that Catholicism has more members. Catholicism is actually a LOT more cultlike than Wicca. And as for the claims they are not outside the mainstream, look at the views of the Vatican, then look at the views of your average person on the street. The Vatican is out of touch, and therefore outside the mainstream.

Yeah, but I think it's one of the many, many, many religious doctrines that are followed strictly, strictly meaning "When the person feels like it."

Which sucks because even if you choose to only follow one rule of your religion, it should either be tolerance & respect for other religion, or treat other people the way you want to be treated.

Yeah, but I think it's one of the many, many, many religious doctrines that are followed strictly, strictly meaning "When the person feels like it."

Pretty much... like every other religion out there? :p

That's only true some places,

If some = muslim majority countries, then yeah.;)

but between fucked up second class citenships and social stigma, it wasn't possible for us. Different in principle, effectively the same shit. I'm pretty sure I posted a rather frustrated rant about it on here at the time.

You lost me.:)

Of course, if we followed a set of laws based on the Christian Bible, do you know what would be legal and illegal?

But you don't. That's the point.

(caveats like for the most part, and in most xtian countries when compared to laws of most muslim majority countries etc etc....)

I thought Multiland was susspose to be a Wiccan, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Wicca teach tolerances and respect for other religion?

I guess he'll have to find another religion.

You seem to be confusing christianity with a belief that you must follow Jewish scripture.

Oh, so you only follow the bible when it suits you? If you aren't supposed to follow it, why is it in the bible? Filler? Did they need to make the bible a bit thicker looking or something?

Again, the only difference between Wicca and Catholicism (Besides the fact that Wicca's views are somewhat less absurd and authoritarian) is that Catholicism has more members. Catholicism is actually a LOT more cultlike than Wicca. And as for the claims they are not outside the mainstream, look at the views of the Vatican, then look at the views of your average person on the street. The Vatican is out of touch, and therefore outside the mainstream.

Are you basing Catholic doctorine on what Gens said?

Oh, so you only follow the bible when it suits you? If you aren't supposed to follow it, why is it in the bible? Filler? Did they need to make the bible a bit thicker looking or something?

Firstly i'm not religious, but acknowleding the new covanent is not "picking and choosing". Secondly, how could you possibly understand anything about the new testament without first understanding the old one.

All in all, I think this is all just an allergic reaction to The Sadisco Room,... which in turn could be an allergic reaction to Freedom And Glory... and of course i'd be the inflamed tissue.

I don't think being opressed and in poverty makes you have anti western terrorist sympathies, unless it's the west thats doing the opression.But when the west is doing the oppression, the only socially acceptable view claims as much, the only political factions allowed to live also claim as much, and your clergy reinforces this view, and demands your violent opposition to the west from you're 5-7 years old, it's pretty fucking hard to blame some ethereal 'religion' for it.

Look at the ME of modern history. Controlled information, persecution of dissidents, and the rapid fusion of one single governing view in religion, politics and economics is what you'll find. And it's not way off to blame the West for it either. We've made it the obvious, perhaps only, choice.Islamic law wouldn't exist without Islam. Groups like Al Qaida who go around fucking up the middle east wouldn't be doing this without their alleged divine right. They are motivated by the Quran, where they want to enforce it.And by the same token, the radical transformations of Islamic law wouldn't be socially acceptable, and might not exist, if they didn't have a clear political agenda, supporting totalitarian regimes and (I hesitate to Goodwin myself, but) Nazi-like nationalism, aimed against us - which ironically supports our economic interests.

You can't isolate Islam or any other religion in this as the culprit. It is, like I said, like blaming plane fuel for Hiroshima.

That parts of Islamic scripture is reprehensible is no different from any other Abrahamic religion, for a very obvious reason; the reprehensible bits all come from the same texts.

Europe and the US have, to be blunt, engineered more than a century of pure hell in almost every Muslim nation on the planet. The only exceptions are the ones Russia have exploited the fuck out of for equally long. And we're all still at it full swing.

Possibly the biggest impact this has had, is the social one. Freedom of thought and expression, education and the leasure time for intellectual persuits are only just barely starting to surface in a select few places, after a century of absence.

At the same time, we've put in what can only really be considered facist regimes in all the countries that didn't manage to do it to themselves. Furthering the negative impacts of the lacking freedom, and adding to the systematic eradication of generations of social, religious and political moderates.

There's nothing mysterious about the hate and intolerance we've created. It couldn't have been done anymore expertly if it was by design. It's tempting to think it is, sometimes.

.... Oh why bother. Go on. Hate people if you have to. I'm sure the few who fit your fucked stereotype wants you to. It aids their agenda, after all.

I think you need some lessons in history and politics my friend. I wouldn't bandy around words like 'Fascist' without really knowing what they mean. Also, 'pure hell' is not a phrase that should be bandied about. It isn't even an attempt to be objective, nor is it well informed. Anyway, back to watching people argue over a subject that really didn't need to be brought up again.

If some = muslim majority countries, then yeah.;)Don't bother me with your creative reading. You know very well your claim is wrong and that I meant some Muslim majority countries.You lost me.:)Lucky me.

EDIT: If you have a point, Sertoria, do feel free to voice it.

I can see you do indeed know what you're on about from your post just now. I am not casting doubt upon your opinions or knowledge having read it. I simply wished to point out that the use of certain phrases and words (specifically Fascist) are out of place within discussion of the repression of Muslim nations. There has never been any Western regime ruling such a nation that could be characterised as Fascist. I am sure you were already aware of this and were simply arguing your point with some passion, which is admirable. My point, therefore, was to promote fairness in judgement.

Don't bother me with your creative reading. You know very well your claim is wrong and that I meant [i]some Muslim majority countries.


I don't understand your hostility.

In almost all muslim majority countries, is the marriage between a muslim woman and a non-muslim man recognized. It is the case in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, Saudia etc etc.

Maybe Turkey, Morocco or some central asian stan could be exceptions to this...but they are still exceptions to the majority behaviour.

So yeah, you said some muslim majority countries and it is wrong and I don't care how righteously indignant you get about my "creative reading".

And no, I won't bother posting proof of common knowledge. Next thing you will be asking me proof that water is wet.

Countries that follow islamic law, CANNOT recognize a marriage between a muslim woman and non-muslim man and most muslim majority countries have islamic law as the basis of their law system.

NOT some, but most.


EDIT: If you have a point, Sertoria, do feel free to voice it.

edited. I see you were replying to somebody else. Please quote who you are replying to.

Islam is not the cult. Al Qaedism is the cult. We are at war with Al Qaedism, not with Islam.

THANK-YOU.

You've made me no longer inclined to believe Islam is a cult. Of course, just because they quote scriptures doesn't mean they actually follow that religion.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Multiland is not me!

Although, much like me, he does see the truth and speak it plainly :D

THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Multiland is not me!

Although, much like me, he does see the truth and speak it plainly :D

News Flash Junior: Read the post just above yours and clean up that spooge puddle you made.

I thought Multiland was susspose to be a Wiccan, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Wicca teach tolerances and respect for other religion?

He's a fanatical Christian. Always been.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

I reckon you're an ignorant idiot, nothing more.

He's a fanatical Christian. Always been.

Ahh, well that explains it.

I reckon you're an ignorant idiot, nothing more.

You win the thread, man.

THANK-YOU.

You've made me no longer inclined to believe Islam is a cult. Of course, just because they quote scriptures doesn't mean they actually follow that religion.
Unless he's being sarcastic, I think Multiland has changed his mind. Does that mean the thread is over?

I reckon you're an ignorant idiot, nothing more.

So well-reasoned and articulate.

More flaming from another Moslem defender in denial. Sad.

So well-reasoned and articulate.

More flaming from another Moslem defender in denial. Sad.

I like how you added "in denial." Very pop-psych of you. I bet you think it makes you look more erudite.

Unless he's being sarcastic, I think Multiland has changed his mind. Does that mean the thread is over?

Maybe not over, but worthy of being archived. Someone's opinion has been changed by something someone else said on the internet, this a momentous day.

Everything is fine. Nothing is ruined.

Thats not true. They don't tend to brainwash followers (except for a few christian sub cults), and Pope is only infallible in certain events. Apparently the vatican has only used this infallibility twice, unfortunately one of them was their ruling on contraceptives.

Wrong. It is used to confirm without doubt that Mary was born of the Immaculate Conception. Also, it has only truly been used once, for the Assumption of Mary. Some other documents were retroactively declared infallible.

It all comes down to whether or not the Pope is speaking ex cathedra, from the chair of St. Peter. It's never explicitly stated.



My only bitch is with geniuses who firmly believe everything the Pope says is infallible. Pope John XXIII once said: "I'm never infallible. A Pope is only when he speaks ex cathedra, and I never speak ex cathedra."

EDIT: Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility) is a fine friend.

Islam is religion based on obedience through fear and power. They serve a god which hates pagans, transgressors, sinners,
Islam is not based on obedience out of fear, rather the desire to follow the deen Allah has set out for us because it is then and only then, when people can be the most fulfilled.

and their prophet claims that their is no compulsion in religion, but in the hadith(his sayings) says that apostates need to be killed.
Those two things are not in conflict with one another. There is no compulsion in religion. True. Meaning you can't force someone to accept Islam. However you can not go in and out of belief once you say the Shahada and become Kafir possibly threating the iman of the Muslims around you. Everyone knows this before you take the Shahada.

Mohammad told his wife, Kahdija that he believed his visions were demoniacally inspired. And Muslims follow this man?
No, he said he was afraid of what had happened to him and was unsure of things, Khadijah reassured him.

I love my muslim brothers and sisters, and admire their devotion to God, but dang.

:rolleyes:

I don't understand your hostility.Right off, I could think of a couple of exceptions. Hence the some, not all. I'm not disputing that it may be most. I can't remember and can't be bothered to look it up right now (Sim's tired).

My hostility was undeserved, and not altogether deliberate. There's a lot of Ny Nordland'esque people in these parts, so I'm prone to get a bit defensive on this particular topic. I'll try not to let it get the better of me. edited. I see you were replying to somebody else. Please quote who you are replying to.Only the edit was aimed at that person (forgot the name).

Nite nite.

Right well it would seem you're going to judge and hate anyone who says anything negative about Islam, so this is for the rest of the posters:

I know other religions have done horrible things. But time after time, explosions are done by Islamic extremists. Compare all the explosions (and that's just the reported ones) with the explosions done in the name of other religions.

Ehh, no. The Muslim majority populations mostly live in developing or undeveloped country. Half the time, it's a political-religious combination limited by their lack of adequate armaments to go toe to toe with their perceived and real enemies.

Local Muslims in developed countries on the other hand, can form a sense of solidarity with these poorer populations, and are driven by lack of adequate political redress to act on it in the most basic form. With violence.

It isn't correct to attribute violence done by Muslim groups solely to their religion, but rather, to a combination of religion and high brow political power games.

So if we compare the violence done by various groups on political pressure alone, what solely Muslim groups do are small potatoes. After all, most of the time, they lack the capacity to do real damage to a nation on a strategic level.

A one shot car bombing is peanuts compared to carpet bombing a city after all.

Right off, I could think of a couple of exceptions. Hence the some, not all. I'm not disputing that it may be most. I can't remember and can't be bothered to look it up right now (Sim's tired).

My hostility was undeserved, and not altogether deliberate. There's a lot of Ny Nordland'esque people in these parts, so I'm prone to get a bit defensive on this particular topic. I'll try not to let it get the better of me. Only the edit was aimed at that person (forgot the name).

Nite nite.

NP. :)

Christianity is based on blind faith and obedience to a God that has some major ego problems. Their God hates all sinners, especially the unmarried homosexual type and any one else who generally wants to think for themselves. The religion preaches tolerance and understanding but if you don't buy into it, you're going to hell even if you're a good person.

See, works both ways.


This is is a misrepresentation of Christianity.

"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever should believe on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Jesus died on the cross to take away the sins of all people because he loves all, especially sinners. He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. When the holier-than-thou people of his era protested, he responded by saying that just like only those who are sick need a doctor, only sinners need a Savior. Jesus loves sinners, he doesn't hate them.

Christianity based on "blind" faith? Excuse me? My faith is not "blind". God works in my life and the life of every Christian. He speaks his love to us through his Word. We see his existence in the evident design of nature around us and in the lives miraculously transformed by his saving grace.

Hell is a place of punishment for those who flaunt their rebellion against their loving Creator who died for them! He made the ultimate sacrifice for them, and they fling it back at him and spit in his face.

Even so, God wishes that no none would have to go to hell, but his holiness and his unability to abide sin demands that he administer justice to the unrepentant sinner. The Bible says that "it is the will of God that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Sadly, man is so wicked that his doom is inevitable if he will not repent.

Islam, on the other hand, is a false religion that denies the deity of Christ and is demonically influenced to kill or subject all those who do not accept its faith. At least in Christianity, we aren't supposed to go around saying, "convert or die!" Unfortunately, some people calling themselves Christians have done that in the past, but they will answer for their deeds on Judgement Day.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all.


Living in a country where "Christians" have been killing each other for 40 years, I'm almost tempted to think the same about Christianity.

Then I come back to reality.

The differnces between a cult and a religion:

1. membership
2. National regonition

the simmilarities:
1. they are both false
2. blind faith

All major religions have their phases. Christianity started pascifist, then turned violent in the Middle Ages, then looped around and did funny things. Islam had its phases, too. Just be thankful that Islam wasn't like when it first started, where it was extremely violent and expansionist.

He's a fanatical Christian. Always been.

Nope, I'm a Wiccan but not completely stupid. I wouldn't tolerate it if I knew people were going to some cult that claimed to be a religion but actually destroyed their souls, teaching them they're worthless, their parents are evil and should be cut off from them, etc etc etc, so if there are indications of a religion being a cult I will ASK questions, which is what I did. If people want to react in a narrow-minded way then that's their problem, but I don't hate them for it. I love everyone (didn't used to though). Even if Islam was a cult of murderers, I'd still love all the murderers, just not what they do.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

you answered your own question!

i am roman catholic by birth,i was an alter boy for 8 years(and no i was not molested..lol)
but i was taught and it stuck,that you love your brother and that life is precious,i was never taught that killing anyone was accepted in any case(turn the other cheek and all)
so to say that my religion is peacefull when you factor in the crusades and other atrocities commited in the name of my god,and then comparing islam to it,is a false premise,it is people that act bad,not the religion!
i know muslims that find what their religion is being perverted by a few,and are disgusted,just as would i if i lived thru the crusades.
i would be horrified by the behaviour people claim to do in the name of my religion,it is foolish to think otherwise.
it is equally foolish to think the vast majority of muslims condone the behaviour of the few.
is religion distorted by evil people to further their sick goals,of coarse,but to impugn a religion for the acts of a few is foolish.
i lijke my religion,i like the fact that jesus was forgiving and did not judge people,but there are those that will distort the bible for a reason to justify their ends,that is wrong...it is the same with any religion,people will use it to justify the most horrendous acts.
it makes them feel like they are right when they are not!

Oh, so you only follow the bible when it suits you? If you aren't supposed to follow it, why is it in the bible? Filler? Did they need to make the bible a bit thicker looking or something?

Christians are meant to follow NEW Testament, which doesn't contain all that stuff you quoted.

Unless he's being sarcastic, I think Multiland has changed his mind. Does that mean the thread is over?

From experience, I suggest you keep wishing lol

My original question will probably be argued with for at least 20 more posts ;)

Maybe not over, but worthy of being archived. Someone's opinion has been changed by something someone else said on the internet, this a momentous day.

It'll probably take a million hours, but if you manage to find very olds threads/posts of mine you might notice I've changed my opinion before.

I'm open to other views, which is why I asked the question rather than just believed Islam's a cult or randomly said "Islam's a cult, get out of it now!" in the first post - and just because certain people have decided to call me a bigot and ignorant (talk about hypocrisy eh?), that doesn't make this sentence false.

you answered your own question!

i am roman catholic by birth,i was an alter boy for 8 years(and no i was not molested..lol)




OK, i just quoted that for ROTFLOL, but that is a good point.

OK, each religion has its stereotypes.

Catholicism is the priests molesting young boys and the Papacy hiding the facts about Jesus's marriage by using means including the attempts to kill a Harvard symbologist. . . OK, I just took the plot from a Dan Brown novel

any who. . .

Judaism has the "greedy, big-nosed Jew" stereotype

Hinduism has the stereotype that all Hindus are either poor cab drivers, middle class convenience store owners, or successful doctors.

Protestantism in the Southern United States has the bible-thumping right-winged mega-church stereotype.

and Islam has the jihadist stereotype

Well, none of them are entirely true. I'm a Catholic, and just like that Secret AJ man, I was an altar server for four years and I was never molested.

I know this Jewish girl from my Spanish class, and she wasn't greedy.

I know this Hindu girl that is in my grade and to the best of my knowledge, none of her family are doctors. . . but I HAVE been wrong before.

I know some people that are into Southern Baptism and they are not all conservative.

And I know Muslims. None of them are jihadists. And many of them that I have met are some of the nicest people that I have ever met.

The thing is that stereotypes are not true so do not say that all of (insert Ethnic Group/Nationality/Religion/Sexual Orientation/Occupation/Disability/Gender/anything else) are anything bad/good/whatever. Because once you make that step, it is hard, if not impossible to make an objective decision about someone.

This is is a misrepresentation of Christianity.

"God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever should believe on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

John 3:16

Jesus died on the cross to take away the sins of all people because he loves all, especially sinners. He ate with tax collectors and prostitutes. When the holier-than-thou people of his era protested, he responded by saying that just like only those who are sick need a doctor, only sinners need a Savior. Jesus loves sinners, he doesn't hate them.

Christianity based on "blind" faith? Excuse me? My faith is not "blind". God works in my life and the life of every Christian. He speaks his love to us through his Word. We see his existence in the evident design of nature around us and in the lives miraculously transformed by his saving grace.

Hell is a place of punishment for those who flaunt their rebellion against their loving Creator who died for them! He made the ultimate sacrifice for them, and they fling it back at him and spit in his face.

Even so, God wishes that no none would have to go to hell, but his holiness and his unability to abide sin demands that he administer justice to the unrepentant sinner. The Bible says that "it is the will of God that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Sadly, man is so wicked that his doom is inevitable if he will not repent.

Islam, on the other hand, is a false religion that denies the deity of Christ and is demonically influenced to kill or subject all those who do not accept its faith. At least in Christianity, we aren't supposed to go around saying, "convert or die!" Unfortunately, some people calling themselves Christians have done that in the past, but they will answer for their deeds on Judgement Day.

READ THE WHOLE THING, SHORT STUFF
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 3:18.

OK, i just quoted that for ROTFLOL, but that is a good point.

OK, each religion has its stereotypes.

Catholicism is the priests molesting young boys and the Papacy hiding the facts about Jesus's marriage by using means including the attempts to kill a Harvard symbologist. . . OK, I just took the plot from a Dan Brown novel

any who. . .

Judaism has the "greedy, big-nosed Jew" stereotype

Hinduism has the stereotype that all Hindus are either poor cab drivers, middle class convenience store owners, or successful doctors.

Protestantism in the Southern United States has the bible-thumping right-winged mega-church stereotype.

and Islam has the jihadist stereotype

Well, none of them are entirely true. I'm a Catholic, and just like that Secret AJ man, I was an altar server for four years and I was never molested.

I know this Jewish girl from my Spanish class, and she wasn't greedy.

I know this Hindu girl that is in my grade and to the best of my knowledge, none of her family are doctors. . . but I HAVE been wrong before.

I know some people that are into Southern Baptism and they are not all conservative.

And I know Muslims. None of them are jihadists. And many of them that I have met are some of the nicest people that I have ever met.

The thing is that stereotypes are not true so do not say that all of (insert Ethnic Group/Nationality/Religion/Sexual Orientation/Occupation/Disability/Gender/anything else) are anything bad/good/whatever. Because once you make that step, it is hard, if not impossible to make an objective decision about someone.

i have to give you a hug..in a non catholic way..lol
but really.all i can say is +1 million

READ THE WHOLE THING, SHORT STUFF
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 3:18.

Name a faith that doesn't say something to that effect (except the Unitarian Church). And that includes atheism.

Name a faith that doesn't say something to that effect (except the Unitarian Church). And that includes atheism.

Buddhism.

Buddhism.

Dammit, beat me to the edit.

Name a faith that isn't full of hippies, dammit! :D

Dammit, beat me to the edit.

Name a faith that isn't full of hippies, dammit! :D

Zoroasterism?

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

Its not so much the religion as much as it is some of the people. You see some people have misinterpreted the Koran and now belive that Allah wants the Christians and Jews destroyed. They didnt used to be violent, because they thought Allah wanted peace. Once they go back to thinking that Allah wants peace we wont have a problem.

Buddhism.
Actually, Buddhism does kind of condemn those who don't follow the Noble Eightfold Path, accept the Four Truths, and take refuge in the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, actually. It's not really a "to Hell" thing (even Christianity hasn't reached a consensus of what happens to "noble pagans". Dante saw two noble pagans in the first level of hell (where the only punishment is the absence of God), but he also saw one in purgatory.), but you are basically stuck in this world (what do they call the cycle of reincarnation? I don't remember...)
Zoroasterism?

Zoroastrianism.

And, really, Zoroastrianism was the basis of all these monotheistic faiths. And the teachings of it are really obscure... So, I have no idea if it does condemn the non-believers or not.

Its not so much the religion as much as it is some of the people. You see some people have misinterpreted the Koran and now belive that Allah wants the Christians and Jews destroyed. They didnt used to be violent, because they thought Allah wanted peace. Once they go back to thinking that Allah wants peace we wont have a problem.
They didn't misinterpret it, they interpreted it. There are no correct interpretations of holy texts because they are no divine wilsl behind them. That's one of the many problems with religion.
I do agree though, that in the past, Islam was one of the most peaceful, tolerant religions in the world.

They didn't misinterpret it, they interpreted it. There are no correct interpretations of holy texts because they are no divine wilsl behind them. That's one of the many problems with religion.
I do agree though, that in the past, Islam was one of the most peaceful, tolerant religions in the world.

I also think that the Koran was just something that Muhommad wrote so he could continue having sex with 9 year old girls, but I dont think that ALL holy texts are completly inaccurate.

I feel it is mostly the West does not understand Islam or Muslims, so what gets recited in the press is all the worst of things that happen, while they are simultaneously willing to admit terrorisms committed in either the name of rights or Christianity, like Waco, Oklahoma City, Ruby Ridge, Guyana, firebombing abortion clinics, &c. The majority of Christians (I would gather) would be aghast at being associated with such things - while they would never agree with abortion for instance, they would not be out firebombing an Orlando abortion clinic on Christmas Day and killing a six-year old on a bicycle in the process - collateral damage to a terrorist. And the FBI still won't list such groups as "terrorists" here - the "Right-to-Lifers" are sacrosanct from government regulation or control.

This does not mean I support abortion - I am opposed to -all- terrorism, regardless of the false religious colours it goes under - Islam, Christianity, any. If they would lie to us about what their religion means, what else would they lie to us about?

cult- a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

Islam is a religion.
Whether it is false or not is your opinion. (Of course it's not false, but that's my opinion.)

There are extremists in all groups, and they are the ones that get the media coverage, not the average people living normal lives.

Muslims live in conventional society, and we don't have a single (living) leader.

Therefore, Islam is not a cult.

i have to give you a hug..in a non catholic way..lol
but really.all i can say is +1 million

You're not catholic?!?!?!

+1 million what???

I feel it is mostly the West does not understand Islam or Muslims, so what gets recited in the press is all the worst of things that happen, while they are simultaneously willing to admit terrorisms committed in either the name of rights or Christianity, like Waco, Oklahoma City, Ruby Ridge, Guyana, firebombing abortion clinics, &c. The majority of Christians (I would gather) would be aghast at being associated with such things - while they would never agree with abortion for instance, they would not be out firebombing an Orlando abortion clinic on Christmas Day and killing a six-year old on a bicycle in the process - collateral damage to a terrorist. And the FBI still won't list such groups as "terrorists" here - the "Right-to-Lifers" are sacrosanct from government regulation or control.

This does not mean I support abortion - I am opposed to -all- terrorism, regardless of the false religious colours it goes under - Islam, Christianity, any. If they would lie to us about what their religion means, what else would they lie to us about?

Just out of curiosity,

do people still do that?

I also think that the Koran was just something that Muhommad wrote so he could continue having sex with 9 year old girls, but I dont think that ALL holy texts are completly inaccurate.

I've read alot of threads with crap like this, and i haven't felt bothered enough to respond, but honestly, i am tired of these lies.

First of all, where is your proof that Aisha, (now you know her name), was 9 when she was married. It is a hadith that says Aisha was 9 at the time of her marriage, but there are hadiths that are contradictory to that one (some of which state her age at 17-18). Basically, you are picking the hadith that satisfies your agenda and not looking at all the other hadiths which say Aisha's age was not 9.

Also, you have no proof that Muhammed was "doing" 9 year old girls. In fact, almost all sources state that Aisha was a virgin. The sources that say she wasn't a virgin claim that she committed adultery, not exactly something you would expect from a 9 year old(If it even happened). As well, these sources are from the political enemies of Aisha's father, so they were an attempt to discredit her and her father, so basically, they can't be trusted.

Oh, and just so you know, Aisha's marriage was probably (in my opinion) a political one, seeing as her father became caliph after Muhammed died. 1400 years ago the world was a different place, and many marriages were political ones. So don't give me the "She was 9 years old, he was a pedophile" crap! As I said before, you have no reliable evidence the Aisha was 9 at the time of her marriage, and you have no evidence that Muhammed had sex with her.
So basically,
STOP POSTING LIES!!!

Soviestan, I took the shahadah when I was very little and did not have the necessary mental capability to reject what I was taught. So, if I reject Islam when I am 16 does that make me eligible to be executed for apostasy? Islam DOES contradict itself on wether or not there is compulsion in religion.

I like to seperate Islam from Muslims, yeah call me weird but hear me out. See, based on the scripture of the Quran and Muhammads words and deeds I do not think it is a very pleasant religion and I do think that Muhammad was a violent man who used his claim of being a messenger to amass great power and respect. Rerefing to the bible and trying to prove that Christianity is a violent religion as well, would be a Tu-Quoqe arguement. (Note that I am not denying that much of biblical scripture can just as if ot more violent than the Quran.)

While, I feel that moderates are scripturally inconsistent and are interpreting Islam to be far more peaceful than it actually is...they probably make up the majority of followers. (Perhaps places such as Saudi Arabia should be excluded where the government enforces a hateful culture).

Wether or not fanatics are driven by their own greed or by blind devotion to their faith is up for debate, but some people really are undersestimating the brainwashing effects a religion can have on its followers.

I'm not even getting involved in this one. I just let the news reports speak for themselves.

I've read alot of threads with crap like this, and i haven't felt bothered enough to respond, but honestly, i am tired of these lies.

Let's start with the ones you make. :p

First of all, where is your proof that Aisha, (now you know her name), was 9 when she was married. It is a hadith that says Aisha was 9 at the time of her marriage, but there are hadiths that are contradictory to that one (some of which state her age at 17-18).

Granted, we don't have birth certificates and marriage certificates from back then. We can only go by what muslims themselves believe. Around 80% of muslims are sunnis and sunnis believe in Bukhari's and Aisha's hadiths. Bukhari's hadiths make clear mention of Aisha's age and so does Aisha herself. If you are a sunni, you have little choice but to take them as truth because...well..that is the basis of sunni tradition. The hadiths as taken as truth based on faith. If you want to reject some hadiths because you don't like them, but accept others, then that is an arbitrary decision.


Basically, you are picking the hadith that satisfies your agenda and not looking at all the other hadiths which say Aisha's age was not 9.

Why can't you be accused of the same? Aren't you picking hadiths that satisfy your agenda and not looking at all the other hadiths which say Aisha's age was 9?

Like these

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.234
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 235:

Narrated 'Aisha:

That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done."

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.064
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:

Narrated 'Aisha:

that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

And these are by Sahih Muslim - who is another respected scholar.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3309
Book 008, Number 3309:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She took hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have share in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah's Messenger (, may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him.

Book 008, Number 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Book 008, Number 3311:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.


There are even more hadiths...but these would do for now..

Also, you have no proof that Muhammed was "doing" 9 year old girls. In fact, almost all sources state that Aisha was a virgin. The sources that say she wasn't a virgin claim that she committed adultery, not exactly something you would expect from a 9 year old(If it even happened). As well, these sources are from the political enemies of Aisha's father, so they were an attempt to discredit her and her father, so basically, they can't be trusted.


Funny you say that because Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are very respected figures in sunni tradition and of course there is Aisha herself who is called "mother of all beleivers". Surely she herself would not be lying, would she?

Hadiths that claim her age was 9 are from sunni scholars. Abu Bakr was a sunni...the first sunni caliph. Your claims that sunni scholars were enemies of Abu Bakr make no sense.


Oh, and just so you know, Aisha's marriage was probably (in my opinion) a political one, seeing as her father became caliph after Muhammed died. 1400 years ago the world was a different place, and many marriages were political ones. So don't give me the "She was 9 years old, he was a pedophile" crap! As I said before, you have no reliable evidence the Aisha was 9 at the time of her marriage, and you have no evidence that Muhammed had sex with her.
So basically,
STOP POSTING LIES!!!

I don't care what Muhammed did or did not do in this issue. He is not my prophet. It is an issue that muslims should deal with. But you cannot be a missionary religion and expect people not to criticize your religion.

Hardcore Sunnis who believe in hadiths, do believe that she was 6 when married and consummated when she was 9. And they don't have an issue with that at all.

Because I don't answer the requests of any imaginary being other than the trix rabbit.

or because you don't have anything better to do then to come around here and spout uneducated BS in your vain attempts to get the "cool kids" to notice you and to try to get into the "us vs. them" circle jerk where logical fallacies are a dime a dozen and anyone with an intelligent point is ridiculed.

Name a faith that doesn't say something to that effect (except the Unitarian Church). And that includes atheism.

that others do it doesnt make any difference to the point made.

and...

what does the "religion" of atheism condemn non atheists to?

heaven?

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Interesting website.

*snip fundamentalist stuff* ... but they will answer for their deeds on Judgement Day.You mean on the day when Enlil and Enki will sort out all the followers of the abrahamic religions and send them to Irkalla for good?

or because you don't have anything better to do then to come around here and spout uneducated BS in your vain attempts to get the "cool kids" to notice you and to try to get into the "us vs. them" circle jerk where logical fallacies are a dime a dozen and anyone with an intelligent point is ridiculed.

Excuse me? Explain to me how belief in god isn't uneducated BS? I like how you assume any one who doesn't agree with you is some kind of groupthink drone.

Excuse me? Explain to me how belief in god isn't uneducated BS?Impossible.

Right well it would seem you're going to judge and hate anyone who says anything negative about Islam, so this is for the rest of the posters:



You see your problem is that you're disrespecting Islam.

Had you insulted Christianity you'd have people cheering you on with glee.

You see your problem is that you're disrespecting Islam.

Had you insulted Christianity you'd have people cheering you on with glee.

Man, where's that "help! help! we're being oppressed" pie chart when you need it?

Man, where's that "help! help! we're being oppressed" pie chart when you need it?

I believe it's in the played out folder along with that lame-o political compass and that stupid logical argument thing

I believe it's in the played out folder along with that lame-o political compass and that stupid logical argument thing

I'm sorry, did you just say logical argument was stupid?

I'm sorry, did you just say logical argument was stupid?

I was referring to that dumb list people link to with the various forms of "logic based arguments".

I was referring to that dumb list people link to with the various forms of "logic based arguments".

And let me guess, the reason you don't like this is because it points out that your arguments are often illogical, right?

And let me guess, the reason you don't like this is because it points out that your arguments are often illogical, right?

No. I don't like it because I took logic in highschool, it's always mis-used, and it's played out.

that others do it doesnt make any difference to the point made.

and...

what does the "religion" of atheism condemn non atheists to?

heaven?

We don't invite them to our kitten barbeques.

*nods*

No. I don't like it because I took logic in highschool, it's always mis-used, and it's played out.

Of course.

Now then, how about we address why you think we're somehow persecuting christians?

Islam is not the cult. Al Qaedism is the cult. We are at war with Al Qaedism, not with Islam.

There are already too many silly neologisms like 'Islamofascist' flying around, can't we just stick with 'Islamism'?

Of course.

Now then, how about we address why you think we're somehow persecuting christians?

Go read the first 5 responses to the post that started this thread.

If this thread was about how Christianiity was a cult, you'd have people lining up to take their shots.

Go read the first 5 responses to the post that started this thread.

If this thread was about how Christianiity was a cult, you'd have people lining up to take their shots.

You'll notice those responses say that if Islam is a cult, christianity's a cult too.

No one that I saw was going "No! Izlamz iz not t3h cu1t! It's christianity!"

or because you don't have anything better to do then to come around here and spout uneducated BS in your vain attempts to get the "cool kids" to notice you and to try to get into the "us vs. them" circle jerk where logical fallacies are a dime a dozen and anyone with an intelligent point is ridiculed.

UDEEBEST

You'll notice those responses say that if Islam is a cult, christianity's a cult too.

No one that I saw was going "No! Izlamz iz not t3h cu1t! It's christianity!"

I'll tell you what I notice, I notice you capitalize Islam and not Christianity.

or because you don't have anything better to do then to come around here and spout uneducated BS in your vain attempts to get the "cool kids" to notice you and to try to get into the "us vs. them" circle jerk where logical fallacies are a dime a dozen and anyone with an intelligent point is ridiculed.

To be fair, there haven't been an awful lot of opportunities to demonstrate said ridicule by anyone...

"Quote:
Can you think of ANY Western leader that would declare a neighboring countries entire citizen base should be killed?

Hitler.

Quote:
Do you have Western leaders encouraging of civilians?

Again, Hitler."

Hitler wasn't Christan,he made up his own religion and destroyed most symbols of christianty in Germany

Islam as as much of a cult as Christianity and Judaism.

Go read the first 5 responses to the post that started this thread.

If this thread was about how Christianiity was a cult, you'd have people lining up to take their shots.

Explain how my response is labelling Christianity as a cult.

Yes, cults are good. Damnations to anyone who said other wise. Hail Zoltan!

Explain how my response is labelling Christianity as a cult.


Why would you even bring up Christianity in a discussion about Islam?

"Quote:
Can you think of ANY Western leader that would declare a neighboring countries entire citizen base should be killed?

Hitler.

Quote:
Do you have Western leaders encouraging of civilians?

Again, Hitler."

Hitler wasn't Christan,he made up his own religion and destroyed most symbols of christianty in Germany

Hitler considered himself to be a Catholic, we have plenty of quotes from him confirming that.

You're capitalizing Christianity now!

Good. You're learning.

Why would you even bring up Christianity in a discussion about Islam?

I didn't write it with a lower case "c", but I will if you persist in your use of that condescending tone.

Islam has its roots in Christianity, and Christianity has its roots in Judaism, which means that Islam does as well. The three are related. The basic core principles are closely related, even if the religions are seemingly different.

Why would you even bring up Christianity in a discussion about Islam?

... perhaps because the OP is a Christian and hence hypocritical?

Stop trying to desperately put up your strawman of how we all hate Christians here.

Let's start with the ones you make. :p



Granted, we don't have birth certificates and marriage certificates from back then. We can only go by what muslims themselves believe. Around 80% of muslims are sunnis and sunnis believe in Bukhari's and Aisha's hadiths. Bukhari's hadiths make clear mention of Aisha's age and so does Aisha herself. If you are a sunni, you have little choice but to take them as truth because...well..that is the basis of sunni tradition. The hadiths as taken as truth based on faith. If you want to reject some hadiths because you don't like them, but accept others, then that is an arbitrary decision.



Why can't you be accused of the same? Aren't you picking hadiths that satisfy your agenda and not looking at all the other hadiths which say Aisha's age was 9?

Like these

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.234


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.064


And these are by Sahih Muslim - who is another respected scholar.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3309


There are even more hadiths...but these would do for now..



Funny you say that because Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are very respected figures in sunni tradition and of course there is Aisha herself who is called "mother of all beleivers". Surely she herself would not be lying, would she?

Hadiths that claim her age was 9 are from sunni scholars. Abu Bakr was a sunni...the first sunni caliph. Your claims that sunni scholars were enemies of Abu Bakr make no sense.



I don't care what Muhammed did or did not do in this issue. He is not my prophet. It is an issue that muslims should deal with. But you cannot be a missionary religion and expect people not to criticize your religion.

Hardcore Sunnis who believe in hadiths, do believe that she was 6 when married and consummated when she was 9. And they don't have an issue with that at all.


a) I never said I was Sunni.
b) When I was talking about the enemies of Abu Bakr, i am talking about the supporters of Ali who claimed she committed adultery, which honestly makes no sense at all.
c) Just so you know, Aisha is called the "mother of all beleivers" because she was the wife of Muhammed; she did not have children with Muhammed, and I don't know of any reputable claims that she had (children or sex) with Muhammed.
d) As far as picking and choosing hadiths, i simply stated that there are hadiths that contradict Bukhari's, so her age at marriage is debatable.
e) I know people are going to criticize Islam, but I would like them to have some credible sources.

Definitions: Cult (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Definitions)

Excuse me? Explain to me how belief in god isn't uneducated BS? I like how you assume any one who doesn't agree with you is some kind of groupthink drone.

Since when did you become such a fundamentalis? Seriously, to claim that belief in metaphysical beings require you to be uneducated is so devoid of logic, so devoid of reasoning and so hugely arrogant i'm not sure whether to laugh or pitty you.

Since when did you become such a fundamentalis? Seriously, to claim that belief in metaphysical beings require you to be uneducated is so devoid of logic, so devoid of reasoning and so hugely arrogant i'm not sure whether to laugh or pitty you.

2nded.

Man, where's that "help! help! we're being oppressed" pie chart when you need it?

You do realise that pie chart was originally made about black people and not christians. They just replaced black with Christian and that made it ok :rolleyes:

I didn't write it with a lower case "c", but I will if you persist in your use of that condescending tone..

WHOOPS!

Wrong guy. I edited my post as soon as I noticed the mistake.

My apologies.

I don't care if you capitalize it or not.

Islam has its roots in Christianity, and Christianity has its roots in Judaism, which means that Islam does as well. The three are related. The basic core principles are closely related, even if the religions are seemingly different.

Islam is fully capable of standing on its' own as far as a crticial examination goes.

It doesn't need to be compared to other religions and to me comes off as insincere.

Perhaps you're an equal oppourtunity offender and I jumped the gun with you inparticular. If that's the case my apologies again.

But I still stand by my claim that if this was a "Christianity was a cult" thread a large chunk of the replies would be cheers, not jeers, and you might not have brought Islam and Judaism into the discussion, as you did here, with Christianity.

Impossible.

Actually it requires more than just education.

But I still stand by my claim that if this was a "Christianity was a cult" thread a large chunk of the replies would be cheers, not jeers, and you might not have brought Islam and Judaism into the discussion, as you did here, with Christianity.

No, I would have just made a sarcastic statement about religion in general and have been on my way. You know, something about all religions being stupid in their own special-needs kid kind of way.

Since when did you become such a fundamentalis? Seriously, to claim that belief in metaphysical beings require you to be uneducated is so devoid of logic, so devoid of reasoning and so hugely arrogant i'm not sure whether to laugh or pitty you.

I was actually repeating Smunkee's term for NOT believing in god ("uneducated BS"). It was more meant to point out the absurdity of claiming that you must be uneducated to not believe in god.

And I'm not sure whether to laugh at your spelling, or pity it.

You do realise that pie chart was originally made about black people and not christians. They just replaced black with Christian and that made it ok :rolleyes:

Correct. It's insulting to claim a minority is not at a disadvantage, but It's ridiculous for the majority to claim that they're being oppressed, when almost every leader in the United States is a christian and almost every voter in the united states is a christian. Christians are not being oppressed.

I'll tell you what I notice, I notice you capitalize Islam and not Christianity.

Why does it matter? Is it some sort of reflection on my opinions of those religions that a capitalize one but not the other? No, it's a reflection that I forgot to hit the "shift" key.

Since when did you become such a fundamentalis? Seriously, to claim that belief in metaphysical beings require you to be uneducated is so devoid of logic, so devoid of reasoning and so hugely arrogant i'm not sure whether to laugh or pitty you.However, to belief in the biblical god does indeed require the believer to be somewhat uneducated. Otherwise the believer would know that prior to the Persian era there is not a single trace of bible-style worship of a unary god (let alone on the state level) in the area, but tons of material hinting at worship in the style similar to every other place in the Levant. Let's face it: the Jewish scholars who first created the bible (Septuagint) for Ptolemy made stuff up and put bits and pieces of all the traditions floating around in the region into their work of religious fiction so folks could find familiar features.

I was actually repeating Smunkee's term for NOT believing in god ("uneducated BS"). It was more meant to point out the absurdity of claiming that you must be uneducated to not believe in god.


Ok fair enough.

However, to belief in the biblical god does indeed require the believer to be somewhat uneducated. Otherwise the believer would know that prior to the Persian era there is not a single trace of bible-style worship of a unary god (let alone on the state level) in the area, but tons of material hinting at worship in the style similar to every other place in the Levant. Let's face it: the Jewish scholars who first created the bible (Septuagint) for Ptolemy made stuff up and put bits and pieces of all the traditions floating around in the region into their work of religious fiction so folks could find familiar features.

Being uneducated is not the same as being uneducated in Persian history.

I was actually repeating Smunkee's term for NOT believing in god ("uneducated BS"). It was more meant to point out the absurdity of claiming that you must be uneducated to not believe in god.

And I'm not sure whether to laugh at your spelling, or pity it.

that's funny because I didn't say that people who don't believe in God are uneducated. You should go back and read my post.

It's interesting how the circle jerk has now developed into how stupid Christians are though.

We don't invite them to our kitten barbeques.

*nods*

this is why i stopped tithing to the church of atheism. they are just too judgemental.

that's funny because I didn't say that people who don't believe in God are uneducated. You should go back and read my post.

It's interesting how the circle jerk has now developed into how stupid Christians are though.

Actually, you did. You claimed that my statement that god did not exist was "spouting uneducated BS".

You should go back and read your own post.

Actually, you did. You claimed that my statement that god did not exist was "spouting uneducated BS".

You should go back and read your own post.

actually I didn't, but hey, you know what, don't care anymore, if you are the level of debate the forum likes, fine.

...as much as I try to tell myself that Muslims are peaceful people, and as much as I know there are a lot of peaceful people who call themselves Muslims, there seems to be so many attacks by people claiming to be Muslims that I'm inclined to believe Islam is a violent cult after all. Just like Christianity is a generally peaceful religion with a few violent people in it, it seems that Islam is a generally violent religion with a few peaceful people in it.

What does everyone else reckon?

Well, in short, you're an idiot.

There are a little over 1 billion Muslims in the world. How many partake in such violent behavior? I'm going to assume very, very few. A very small portion.

As well, since we are fighting "Teh ebil moohamedins of doom!!!!!", you tend to hear about attacks made by Muslims these days moreso than you would of Christians.

Unless you want to forget the fact that most terrorist attacks in the US are actually made by White Christians.

And I can make the same claims you did about Christianity. A small, but violent, minority does not represent the religion as a whole.

Ho-well. Trollin' Trollin' Trollin', keep those posts a-trollin'! Raw hide!

Well, in short, you're an idiot.

There are a little over 1 billion Muslims in the world. How many partake in such violent behavior? I'm going to assume very, very few. A very small portion.

As well, since we are fighting "Teh ebil moohamedins of doom!!!!!", you tend to hear about attacks made by Muslims these days moreso than you would of Christians.

Unless you want to forget the fact that most terrorist attacks in the US are actually made by White Christians.

And I can make the same claims you did about Christianity. A small, but violent, minority does not represent the religion as a whole.

Ho-well. Trollin' Trollin' Trollin', keep those posts a-trollin'! Raw hide!

You win the thread.

actually I didn't, but hey, you know what, don't care anymore, if you are the level of debate the forum likes, fine.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12834407&postcount=151

Now that we've established that denial, besides being a river in Egypt, is also apparently a valid debate technique on NSG, can we continue?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12834407&postcount=151

Now that we've established that denial, besides being a river in Egypt, is also apparently a valid debate technique on NSG, can we continue?

She called you uneducated, not not believing in God uneducated.

why dont we just stick all the extemists on a desert and nuke 'em?

She called you uneducated, not not believing in God uneducated.

No, reread the post. She didn't call me uneducated, she called my statement uneducated.

why dont we just stick all the extemists on a desert and nuke 'em?

How are you gonna catch them, with a big net?

Being uneducated is not the same as being uneducated in Persian history.Being uneducated as a Christian means being uneducated in the history that is reflected in the bible, including Egyptian, Persian, and overall Levantine history where it intersects with what the bible narrates. The summary of the knowledge of all this history only leads to one conclusion: the biblical god is an invention of the 5th/4th century BCE, which renders all the abrahamic religions pointless. Subsequently being Christian means to be on the wrong track altogether, so Zarakon's interjection wasn't so baseless after all.

Being uneducated as a Christian means being uneducated in the history that is reflected in the bible, including Egyptian, Persian, and overall Levantine history where it intersects with what the bible narrates.

There are many, many Christian thealogians who are extremely educated in that period however. So obviously it's not enough to totally discredit belief in Jesus.

Again, OLD stuff, not recent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

That should give you all the information you want and more.

Christians are just as violent. It just gets pushed under the rug, or forgotten very quickly.

Hell, 20 years ago, I'm not many people knew exactly what a Muslim was. Instead, back then it was "teh ebil plinko Commies."

How are you gonna catch them, with a big net?Yes, the internet.

Actually, they brainwash followers, and, in the case of catholicism, are led by an authority who is the unquestionable voice of god.

PLEASE explain to my why Christianity/Catholicism are NOT cults with a lot of members?

Technically, it is since by definition any religious ideology and it's adherents would be a cult. However, you're mixing that definition with the definition with more negative definition of cult that most Christians would not fit within.

As far as brainwashing, please provide proof. This should enjoyable to say the least.

Because I don't answer the requests of any imaginary being other than the trix rabbit.

I love the illogic of individuals who happily make assumptions that cannot be validated and then attack other people for doing exactly the same thing. It's beautiful, really. I mean, it's actually difficult to argue with agnostics, but folks who violate their own rules are just hilarious.

There are many, many Christian thealogians who are extremely educated in that period however. So obviously it's not enough to totally discredit belief in Jesus.Very funny. Christian theologians are not historians, let alone archaeologists. And whatever they may say about Yeshua, it is all empty as there is no Yhvh who he is allegedly the incarnation of. Even in the newest book by the Pope about the "historical Jesus" the mistake is made to take the bible as actual history, but the bible has always been but religiously re-interpreted history.

Almost every major terrorist attack of the last thirty years was performed by a group of radical Muslims. The last high-profile radical Christian attack was the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996, killing one person and denounced worldwide by Christians of almost every stripe.

The problem is not Islam. The problem is FUNDAMENTALIST Islamic radicals who use the Holy Qu'ran as a law book. From Sudan, where Muslims make slaves out of Christians if they don't kill them first, to Indonesia, where nightclubs are targets alongside restaurants, to New York and Washington, where civilians were killed alongside government workers--it's a small branch of Muslims, but they have absolutely hijacked their own religion to its detriment.

Christianity had violent beginnings. Islam had violent beginnings. The difference is that Christianity--bigotry and negative points aside--GREW UP. Islam is trying to find footing in its own world before it tears itself completely apart. The tenets of Islam are beautiful. If only its extreme followers would realize that...

Excuse me? Explain to me how belief in god isn't uneducated BS? I like how you assume any one who doesn't agree with you is some kind of groupthink drone.

Pardon? So if I believe anything that I cannot objectively prove, I'm uneducated. And here I thought holding a philosophy had nothing to do with my level of education. I guess when you've not got a better argument, ad hominems is all you have.

Technically, it is since by definition any religious ideology and it's adherents would be a cult. However, you're mixing that definition with the definition with more negative definition of cult that most Christians would not fit within.

As far as brainwashing, please provide proof. This should enjoyable to say the least.

Well, it's not outright, scientologyesque brainwashing, but in my opinion, telling children too young to think critically about it that they must believe in God or go to hell certainly isn't ethical, even if it isn't outright brainwashing.

Very funny. Christian theologians are not historians, let alone archaeologists. And whatever they may say about Yeshua, it is all empty as there is no Yhvh who he is allegedly the incarnation of.

And this has been another addition of "impossible logical conclusions". Thanks for watching. Tip your waitresses.

Pardon? So if I believe anything that I cannot objectively prove, I'm uneducated. And here I thought holding a philosophy had nothing to do with my level of education. I guess when you've not got a better argument, ad hominems is all you have.

You'll notice that the term "uneducated BS" is, in fact, merely a repeating of what Smunkee said of NOT believing in god. Basically, it was meant to illustrate that it's simple to hold an opinion opposite of someone's without being "uneducated".

Almost every major terrorist attack of the last thirty years was performed by a group of radical Muslims. The last high-profile radical Christian attack was the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996, killing one person and denounced worldwide by Christians of almost every stripe.

That wasn't the last high-profile one. Ever heard of abortion clinic bombings?

Soviestan, I took the shahadah when I was very little and did not have the necessary mental capability to reject what I was taught. So, if I reject Islam when I am 16 does that make me eligible to be executed for apostasy? Islam DOES contradict itself on wether or not there is compulsion in religion.
if you turn away from Islam at 16 it means you were a believer at 15. An age where you are more than capable of understanding. Like I said before, one can not go from believe to disbelief. There is not a contradiction.

I do think that Muhammad was a violent man who used his claim of being a messenger to amass great power and respect.
Don't post lies about the Rasul of Allah without backing them up.

Actually, Buddhism does kind of condemn those who don't follow the Noble Eightfold Path, accept the Four Truths, and take refuge in the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, actually. It's not really a "to Hell" thing (even Christianity hasn't reached a consensus of what happens to "noble pagans". Dante saw two noble pagans in the first level of hell (where the only punishment is the absence of God), but he also saw one in purgatory.), but you are basically stuck in this world (what do they call the cycle of reincarnation? I don't remember...)

Well, it's better than burning for eternity.

Zoroastrianism.

And, really, Zoroastrianism was the basis of all these monotheistic faiths. And the teachings of it are really obscure... So, I have no idea if it does condemn the non-believers or not.

They're the source of the Apocalyptic stuff, IIRC.

Also, I think their basis was how good you fought against evil.

Well, it's not outright, scientologyesque brainwashing, but in my opinion, telling children too young to think critically about it that they must believe in God or go to hell certainly isn't ethical, even if it isn't outright brainwashing.

Oh, yay, yet another assumption. Some groups do this. Many don't. Certainly you recognize the fallacy of broadbrushing groups like this. Oh, silly me, since I've seen it explained to you repeatedly and you still don't get it, I guess you don't recognize such fallacies.

For example, my nephew is Christian. What was he taught about hell?

Oh, yay, yet another assumption. Some groups do this. Many don't. Certainly you recognize the fallacy of broadbrushing groups like this. Oh, silly me, since I've seen it explained to you repeatedly and you still don't get it, I guess you don't recognize such fallacies.

For example, my nephew is Christian. What was he taught about hell?

Oh, silly me, I forgot that my arguments cannot be based on the majority of groups, and that I have to account for every possible variation.

Don't post lies about the Rasul of Allah without backing them up.

That's what we call an opinion.

Very funny. Christian theologians are not historians, let alone archaeologists. And whatever they may say about Yeshua, it is all empty as there is no Yhvh who he is allegedly the incarnation of. Even in the newest book by the Pope about the "historical Jesus" the mistake is made to take the bible as actual history, but the bible has always been but religiously re-interpreted history.

Not all Christian theologians agree with each other, it's logically impossible to conclude something like you just did.

Oh, silly me, I forgot that my arguments cannot be based on the majority of groups, and that I have to account for every possible variation.

You can say most. A lot. A ton. A bunch. But if you want to be correct, you can't say what you said. It seems like you're not actually interested in being correct so much as being offensive.

And Smunkee called YOU on it. Not a hasty generalization fallacy like yours. So your "uneducated BS" didn't attack Smunkee. It attacked all Christians. But, hey, using a logical fallacy doesn't mean there is a flaw in your logic. Oh, wait.

Oh, silly me, I forgot that my arguments cannot be based on the majority of groups, and that I have to account for every possible variation.

Are there actually any Christian groups who dictate how their members should raise their children? I'm not aware of Catholicism, Protestantism or Presbyterianism having any such rules, but perhaps you know of some that do.

Well, it's not outright, scientologyesque brainwashing, but in my opinion, telling children too young to think critically about it that they must believe in God or go to hell certainly isn't ethical, even if it isn't outright brainwashing.

Anything you tell your kids is technically brainwashing.

Not all Christian theologians agree with each other, it's logically impossible to conclude something like you just did.Maybe you should ask historians and archaeologists instead. This is no matter of theology, really. Christians theologians choose to become theologians because of their belief and not because they are interested in actual history.

Maybe you should ask historians and archaeologists instead. This is no matter of theology, really.

Technically, people who study the history of Religion are usually known as theologians.

anyone that speaks out against Islam is a bigot and should be hated

anyone that speaks out against Christianity or Judaism is to be praised

anyone that speaks out against Islam is a bigot and should be hated

anyone that speaks out against Christianity or Judaism is to be praised

That sounds like a set of rules that need to be hung up on the wall for players of nationstates :p

Technically, people who study the history of Religion are usually known as theologians.That's what you think. Theologians however lack the necessary distance to their issue of study. They look at history with the biblical perspective. Theologians rather study what the bible narrates (and what effects that has on their belief), but unfortunately not how exactly those narrations came into existence, and most of the time they also fail to compare what the bible narrates with other sources from the respective periods that the bible narrates about.

That's what you think. Theologians however lack the necessary distance to their issue of study. They look at history with the biblical perspective. Theologians rather study what the bible narrates (and what effects that has on their belief), but unfortunately not how exactly those narrations came into existence, and most of the time they also fail to compare what the bible narrates with other sources from the respective periods that the bible narrates about.

If you're going to use words, use them properly.

Theology - the study of religious faith, practice, and experience

It has NOTHING to do with what the theologian, himself or herself, believes. Being a student of the philosophy you are an expert on is not a requirement.

If you intend to refer to people who are both religious and experts on their religion, then perhaps you should choose a word that means that.

The generalization is neither intentionally hateful nor stupid. In fact, it's quite natural--due to the availability heuristic that we're all biologically programmed with. If most terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims, we'll begin to think that most Muslims are terrorists.

Not that the inclination to follow this heuristic is a good one; any more than the inclination to use crack cocaine. However, if you fall into the establishment's trap and polarize yourself for or against the "enemy", you'll fail to notice that the real enemy is our omnipotent government. Have you noticed that all of the Republican AND Democratic candidates have voted to raise taxes, waste money on pork, and implement more government control over our lives?

Rudy Guliani supports the REAL ID Act, which, by 2008, will require American citizens to carry a national ID card with their biometric imprint and detailed personal information (all stored in a federal database, of course). Hillary Clinton wants to implement socialized medicine, which will force all Americans to pay for their neighbors' health care. Both of these wolves in sheep's clothing want to take this country in the same direction.

But then again, there's always Ron Paul...

RON PAUL 2008!!!

Almost every major terrorist attack of the last thirty years was performed by a group of radical Muslims. The last high-profile radical Christian attack was the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996, killing one person and denounced worldwide by Christians of almost every stripe.

The problem is not Islam. The problem is FUNDAMENTALIST Islamic radicals who use the Holy Qu'ran as a law book. From Sudan, where Muslims make slaves out of Christians if they don't kill them first, to Indonesia, where nightclubs are targets alongside restaurants, to New York and Washington, where civilians were killed alongside government workers--it's a small branch of Muslims, but they have absolutely hijacked their own religion to its detriment.

Christianity had violent beginnings. Islam had violent beginnings. The difference is that Christianity--bigotry and negative points aside--GREW UP. Islam is trying to find footing in its own world before it tears itself completely apart. The tenets of Islam are beautiful. If only its extreme followers would realize that...

:rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

I posted this not even a page ago. Read up. Educate yourself.

Stop being an idiot.

Who is this Ron Paul? Has Ru Paul changed his gender again?

Oh yeah, and Ron Paul is the only Republican that has never proposed pork barrel spending, never accepted free money from Medicaire, and wants us to get the hell out of Iraq.

Ron Paul is a federal representative from Texas, running as a Republican candidate for president. Google him.

Ron Paul is a federal representative from Texas, running as a Republican candidate for president. Google him.

Or click the link on my sig.

Ron Paul FTW!

Ron Paul is a federal representative from Texas, running as a Republican candidate for president. Google him.Isn't one president from Texas enough? Right now it's already more than the world would ever wish.

Isn't one president from Texas enough? Right now it's already more than the world would ever wish.

Hooray for generalization!

Hooray for generalization!Well deserved.

Ah, wouldn't you know it? The Bush family is not from Texas. Little Georgie is from Conneticut. You wouldn't think so, what, with that convincing accent of his, right?

By the way, Texas' land mass fits about half of New England.

Oh yeah, and keep in mind that ole' Bush is in Kennybunkport right now, not Crawford. The Crawford ranch is as much a ranch as the Bohemian Grove is a "tradition."

Well deserved.

Not everyone from Texas is an idiot, and not every President that comes from Texas will be as bad as George W. Bush.

By your logic, the next time we get a Presidential candidate from Arkansas, he's going to be a womanizer who'll try to re-define the word 'is', and go to Mc. Donalds on a regular basis.

(Also, why am I a spamgirl, I'm a guy dammit....)

this is why i stopped tithing to the church of atheism. they are just too judgemental.

Hey! They can still come and eat babies if they want to, but kittens are, quite rightly, reserved only for true unbelievers.

Not everyone from Texas is an idiot, and not every President that comes from Texas will be as bad as George W. Bush.


This is probably true, but it doesn't help the only other president from Texas I can think of is LBJ. Not exactly a good trend there.

This is probably true, but it doesn't help the only other president from Texas I can think of is LBJ. Not exactly a good trend there.

At least LBJ didn't run for re-election.

At least LBJ didn't run for re-election.

Very true.

Well, it's not outright, scientologyesque brainwashing, but in my opinion, telling children too young to think critically about it that they must believe in God or go to hell certainly isn't ethical, even if it isn't outright brainwashing.

That's funny: I went to Christian schools until I was eleven (and to a loosely Christian school until I was sixteen) and not once was I told anything about Hell. That's the Church of England for you.

At least he didn't kill Kennedy... oh wait... shit...

You can say most. A lot. A ton. A bunch. But if you want to be correct, you can't say what you said. It seems like you're not actually interested in being correct so much as being offensive.

And Smunkee called YOU on it. Not a hasty generalization fallacy like yours. So your "uneducated BS" didn't attack Smunkee. It attacked all Christians. But, hey, using a logical fallacy doesn't mean there is a flaw in your logic. Oh, wait.

I notice you don't seem to care that Smunkee attacked atheists.

Oh...Wait, she agrees with you, I forgot. It's the rule to only call logical fallacies when they aren't for your position.