NationStates Jolt Archive

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)

Just in case you don't know where Israel is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)

You are absolutely correct about their military. The US's is only fit for country vs country World War scenarios. Theirs is more oriented to this.

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)

Three main reasons why it wouldn't work. First, Israeli involvement would cause greater levels of violence and conflict than we see in the US/Coalition controlled areas; the militants who are opposed to Israel are sgnificantly more numerous than those that oppose the USA. Second, Israel, while as good or better than anyone else in a stand-up fight, hasn't had significantly greater success than anyone else in opposing asymmetric warfare. Third, the IDF is actually quite small. They don't have the boots to do the job at the same time as maintaining security in Israel itself.

Personally I just think we should annex Mexico, then send all the Mexicans to the Middle East and just have them build a giant wall around the region with a roof, and reopen up the Middle East Vault in 100 years and see who won. :D

Three main reasons why it wouldn't work. First, Israeli involvement would cause greater levels of violence and conflict than we see in the US/Coalition controlled areas; the militants who are opposed to Israel are sgnificantly more numerous than those that oppose the USA. Second, Israel, while as good or better than anyone else in a stand-up fight, hasn't had significantly greater success than anyone else in opposing asymmetric warfare. Third, the IDF is actually quite small. They don't have the boots to do the job at the same time as maintaining security in Israel itself.

You are probably right, but you have to admit, they would do a better job than us in hunting down the terrorist pricks. They have had to deal with them more often than the United States has. They are more fit for the job.

Personally I just think we should annex Mexico, then send all the Mexicans to the Middle East and just have them build a giant wall around the region with a roof, and reopen up the Middle East Vault in 100 years and see who won. :D

They world is pressed for resources as it is asshole! :p Just playing

They world is pressed for resources as it is asshole! :p Just playing

Oh bitch bitch bitch, just use alternative fuels. :p

Oh bitch bitch bitch, just use alternative fuels. :P


"I work for two American dollars a day senor."

"Good when can you start?" 'Yes, work for less my Mexican friend, power to the rich' *leans back and counts money*

They did lose that one war with Hamas though.

They did lose that one war with Hamas though.

Link please, rusty memory you see.

Let the British figure a plan for Iraq. They halted the IRA in Northern Ireland and IICR, they are withdrawing from Iraq in October as the south is supposidly under Iraqi control.

The American politicians should not have betrayed Blair at the start of the operation.

Let the British figure a plan for Iraq. They halted the IRA in Northern Ireland and IICR, they are withdrawing from Iraq in October as the south is supposidly under Iraqi control.

The American politicians should not have betrayed Blair at the start of the operation.

The British shouldn't have even fought Ireland, Ireland had every right to break away from the United Kingdom.

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)

Israel only wins because it's effectively given carte blanche by America to do what it wants...and fighting a nation is very different from fighting a terrorist organisation, no matter what religion

Personally, I think we should just get all them A-rabs and goddman Jews and just nuke the shit out of that place, man. Then, we'll all be like 'God bless America' and 'Don't Mess with Texas!' and all that kind of cool shit! That'll really show them who's boss. Then, we send people in to help them rebuild. Maybe when the Jews rebuild their temple, Great White Jeebus will come back and we'll all be saved! Except for them muslims and Jews, of course...

Oh wait... you wanted a serious answer? Oh, well, fuck that plan.

http://italy.usembassy.gov/pdf/other/RL33566.pdf

Israel only wins because it's effectively given carte blanche by America to do what it wants...and fighting a nation is very different from fighting a terrorist organisation, no matter what religion

True, the point is though that they would be far better at than the United States would be. We don't sit with the threat of terrorist attacks from every one of our neighbors. I wager that most islamic individuals would vote for a war against israel any day of the week.

Personally, I think we should just get all them A-rabs and goddman Jews and just nuke the shit out of that place, man. Then, we'll all be like 'God bless America' and 'Don't Mess with Texas!' and all that kind of cool shit! That'll really show them who's boss. Then, we send people in to help them rebuild. Maybe when the Jews rebuild their temple, Great White Jeebus will come back and we'll all be saved! Except for them muslims and Jews, of course...

Oh wait... you wanted a serious answer? Oh, well, fuck that plan.

You make me so proud! You are what it means to be an American (http://www.jibjab.com/originals/this_land)

The British shouldn't have even fought Ireland, Ireland had every right to break away from the United Kingdom.
I am not talking about Irish independance, I am talking about the fighting and terrorism in Northern Ireland that has only recenly halted. That was another bull-shite 'war' sparked by religion.

I am not talking about Irish independance, I am talking about the fighting and terrorism in Northern Ireland that has only recenly halted. That was another bull-shite 'war' sparked by religion.

Oh, well in that case you had a very valid point.

Considering the peace in Ireland is still relatively fragile, and the only real way to stop IRA style terrorism permeanantly in the area would be through allowing North Ireland with the Republic of Ireland, the same concept can be applied to Israel/Palestine/Iraq/etc.

Instead of pussyfooting around terrorism in the Middle East and attempting to take the fool's route of attacking nations, why shouldn't the leading nations of the world actually attempt to force both the Arabs and Israel to settle their differences? I garauntee you, if that were done, a large percentage of the motivation for Islamic fundementalist terrorism in the world would suddenly dissappear, and so would the threat.

I mean, why keep attacking the West if they actually solve a problem they managed to create through an administrative fuck-up?

Considering the peace in Ireland is still relatively fragile, and the only real way to stop IRA style terrorism permeanantly in the area would be through allowing North Ireland with the Republic of Ireland, the same concept can be applied to Israel/Palestine/Iraq/etc.

Instead of pussyfooting around terrorism in the Middle East and attempting to take the fool's route of attacking nations, why shouldn't the leading nations of the world actually attempt to force both the Arabs and Israel to settle their differences? I garauntee you, if that were done, a large percentage of the motivation for Islamic fundementalist terrorism in the world would suddenly dissappear, and so would the threat.

I mean, why keep attacking the West if they actually solve a problem they managed to create through an administrative fuck-up?

I am not saying that all terrorists hate America, but by doing that, most Terrorist organizations may merely redirect all their efforts on giving the US a really bad day! Aside from that, this would at least make the middle east stable again. Yay low gas prices!!

True, the point is though that they would be far better at than the United States would be. We don't sit with the threat of terrorist attacks from every one of our neighbors. I wager that most islamic individuals would vote for a war against israel any day of the week.

Actually, I think you'd be surprised. I know quite a few muslims from college, and a lot of them think all parties involved should sit down at the table and sort it out that way.

I am not saying that all terrorists hate America, but by doing that, most Terrorist organizations may merely redirect all their efforts on giving the US a really bad day! Aside from that, this would at least make the middle east stable again. Yay low gas prices!!

Dear me, I wonder why they hate the U.S.A.? Is it because they single-handedly managed to alienate the Arabs by aligning themselves with Israel just to gain a Cold War advantage which has long become obsolete? Better yet, maybe it's because we just managed to make ourselves look even more like a bunch of douches by invading Iraq and Afghanistan for no good reason? No, of course, they all just fucking hate good god-fearing white Christian folk like us in America! Freedom!

You have to realize that terrorists only launch attacks because they want something. They use fear to gain something. What these particular terrorists want is a solution to the currently stagnant situation in Israel/Palestine. They're like angry teenagers... the more you fight them, the more they'll just fight back. Try actually seeing what they want and act like fucking sensible human beings, you just might get somewhere.

Get smart, and learn your history before talking to me. Better yet, come live in the Middle East for most of your life.

the south will rise again!
long live the confederacy!

Dear me, I wonder why they hate the U.S.A.? Is it because they single-handedly managed to alienate the Arabs by aligning themselves with Israel just to gain a Cold War advantage which has long become obsolete? Better yet, maybe it's because we just managed to make ourselves look even more like a bunch of douches by invading Iraq and Afghanistan for no good reason? No, of course, they all just fucking hate good god-fearing white Christian folk like us in America! Freedom!

Get smart, and learn your history before talking to me. Better yet, come live in the Middle East for most of your life.

That is not what I meant! I was just saying that some terrorist organizations are just that, terrorists and as soon as Israel becomes a nonproblem (by some miracle, by the looks of things) they will merely turn on the next viable target, America. They don't care, they are just criminal for no obvious reason and seek to hurt innocent people. I am in no way implieing that all muslims or even most of them hate america. I'm not!

According to the various inquiries into the PM and the IDF leadership, they lost the last incursion into Lebanon...

So yeah, apart from the plan being stupid, it's also based on false premises.

Dear me, I wonder why they hate the U.S.A.? Is it because they single-handedly managed to alienate the Arabs by aligning themselves with Israel just to gain a Cold War advantage which has long become obsolete? Better yet, maybe it's because we just managed to make ourselves look even more like a bunch of douches by invading Iraq and Afghanistan for no good reason? No, of course, they all just fucking hate good god-fearing white Christian folk like us in America! Freedom!

You have to realize that terrorists only launch attacks because they want something. They use fear to gain something. What these particular terrorists want is a solution to the currently stagnant situation in Israel/Palestine. They're like angry teenagers... the more you fight them, the more they'll just fight back. Try actually seeing what they want and act like fucking sensible human beings, you just might get somewhere.

Get smart, and learn your history before talking to me. Better yet, come live in the Middle East for most of your life.


Dude you are taking what I said way out of proportion that is not what I meant!

I apologize if I offended Anadyr Islands, but he is not understanding what I meant by my last post. God I have said this several times, but my posts keep getting moderated.

Israel's army is primarily a defensive force. they've never lost when they've been invaded, but we've seen what a shambles Lebanon turned into. SO no, I doubt they'd be much better than the American's at this.

I apologize if I offended Anadyr Islands, but he is not understanding what I meant by my last post. God I have said this several times, but my posts keep getting moderated.

I guess apology accepted, but I still don't get what you're trying to say with your post. You seem sarcastic.

Sorry, I'm tired, and I really hate American ignorance about the subject.

I guess apology accepted, but I still don't get what you're trying to say with your post.

Sorry, I'm tired, and I really hate American ignorance about the subject.

Hopefully this post makes it through, but what I was trying to say is that there are some terrorist organizations out there that only wish to bring chaos in the world for no particular reason other than criminal ambition. I do realize that most muslim terrorist organization have valid reasoning behind their actions; but they go about reaching their goals the wrong way. But I guess most western nations really give them no choice do they?

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)

I love the double standard that's around nowadays. If I made a post about how good it would be to let someone "kick jewish ass," and talked about how Israel is a "shit hole" and referred to a "war against jews," I'd be flamed and banned and the thread would be closed.

And rightly so, because that's fucking bigoted trash talk.

But it seems perfectly OK with Muslims. Perfectly acceptable. No one bats an eye. I guess we can look forward to the pogroms and concentration camps, eh my good little friends who just might happen to one day wear coincidentally brown-colored clothing?

I think Israel is pretty busy in Gaza right now, and if we left Iraq to them the Iranians would most certinatly attack, and then America would have to go back to Iraq to free it from the Iranians.

I think Israel is pretty busy in Gaza right now, and if we left Iraq to them the Iranians would most certinatly attack, and then America would have to go back to Iraq to free it from the Iranians.

Yep, it is all a vicious circle, we never should have went there in the first place.

I love the double standard that's around nowadays. If I made a post about how good it would be to let someone "kick jewish ass," and talked about how Israel is a "shit hole" and referred to a "war against jews," I'd be flamed and banned and the thread would be closed.

And rightly so, because that's fucking bigoted trash talk.

But it seems perfectly OK with Muslims. Perfectly acceptable. No one bats an eye. I guess we can look forward to the pogroms and concentration camps, eh my good little friends who just might happen to one day wear coincidentally brown-colored clothing?

I hate to tell you, but the Jews arent the one flying planes into buildings, or using suicide bombs to kill people, or attacking the US.

Hopefully this post makes it through, but what I was trying to say is that there are some terrorist organizations out there that only wish to bring chaos in the world for no particular reason other than criminal ambition. I do realize that most muslim terrorist organization have valid reasoning behind their actions; but they go about reaching their goals the wrong way. But I guess most western nations really give them no choice do they?

Well, in a way, yes. The west is increasingly inclined to sympathize with Israel, partly because of the increase in Islamist terrorism, which tends to make the whole thing a cycle.

I don't really beleive there are organization dedicated to simply creating Chaos... It's not like Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer or something. They would only want that if they wanted to use the Anarchy to their own advantage.

I hate to tell you, but the Jews arent the one flying planes into buildings, or using suicide bombs to kill people, or attacking the US.

Oh no, no mein freund! They are the ones sabotaging and undermining the economy of the fatherland! Why, their very own newspapers "declared war" on us!

Hating "the jews" is just as despicable, bigoted and nazi-esque as hating "the muslims."

I hate to tell you, but the Jews arent the one flying planes into buildings, or using suicide bombs to kill people, or attacking the US.

They're just the ones using modern military weaponry, fighter, bombers and tanks to rip the shit out of a bunch of kids with guns. Oh, and maybe take out a couple of civilians accidentally every so often.

Oh, and how quickly we forget about the Pre-Israel Jewish terrorist Organizations, dedicated to creating the independent state of Israel. Similar bombing and assassination campaigns as Islamist terrorists today. Stern Gang, anyone?

Well, in a way, yes. The west is increasingly inclined to sympathize with Israel, partly because of the increase in Islamist terrorism, which tends to make the whole thing a cycle.

I don't really beleive there are organization dedicated to simply creating Chaos... It's not like Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer or something. They would only want that if they wanted to use the Anarchy to their own advantage.

Well that may be; but you do see the point I was trying to get across. I didn't mean to offend you by sounding as if I thought all muslims were terrorist bastards. I know they're not.

Yep, it is all a vicious circle, we never should have went there in the first place.

I think we had to go there, because thanks to the fact that we're in Iraq there hasnt been an attack on US soil. Why? Because terrorists are to busy trying to take Iraq back. If we hadnt gone there, there probably would have been more attacks on American soil.

Oh no, no mein freund! They are the ones sabotaging and undermining the economy of the fatherland! Why, their very own newspapers "declared war" on us!

Hating "the jews" is just as despicable, bigoted and nazi-esque as hating "the muslims."

We don't hate 'the muslims' we hate 'the muslims they fly jumbo-fucking-jets into building full of innocent people. I have no problem with muslims, just the ones blow shit up and try to kill me. Which is a fairly small percentage of the muslim people if I might add.

Well that may be; but you do see the point I was trying to get across. I didn't mean to offend you by sounding as if I thought all muslims were terrorist bastards. I know they're not.

Sorry, you just sounded really sarcastic, and I didn't see what you meant right away. I do now.

It's cool, just I have a temper sometimes...

I think we had to go there, because thanks to the fact that we're in Iraq there hasnt been an attack on US soil. Why? Because terrorists are to busy trying to take Iraq back. If we hadnt gone there, there probably would have been more attacks on American soil.

I doubt it. Bush may be a dumbass, but a few of the people working for him that run the Homeland defense organization are not. There may have been a few more,but not as many. Two years after we were attacked paranoia was still high. Though I have to say that looking at just the muslims is a mistake.

Sorry, you just sounded really sarcastic, and I didn't see what you meant right away. I do now.

It's cool, just I have a temper sometimes...

Its cool my friend ;)

They're just the ones using modern military weaponry, fighter, bombers and tanks to rip the shit out of a bunch of kids with guns. Oh, and maybe take out a couple of civilians accidentally every so often.

Oh, and how quickly we forget about the Pre-Israel Jewish terrorist Organizations, dedicated to creating the independent state of Israel. Similar bombing and assassination campaigns as Islamist terrorists today. Stern Gang, anyone?

Hezzbollah (please forgive my bad spelling) has killed a bunch more Israeli citizens than Israelis have killed theres. There attacking kids with guns, because they make up a good part of the terrorists. I dont justify the Pre-Israel Jewish terrorists organizations, but there not ones with the major terrorist organizations now. Its the Muslims.

We don't hate 'the muslims' we hate 'the muslims they fly jumbo-fucking-jets into building full of innocent people.

The dead ones. Gotcha. Necropathy?

I have no problem with muslims, just the ones blow shit up and try to kill me. Which is a fairly small percentage of the muslim people if I might add.

Oh? But we're at "war with muslims" and we want to "kick muslim ass," you said. Now you're moving the goal posts?

Hezzbollah (please forgive my bad spelling) has killed a bunch more Israeli citizens than Israelis have killed theres. There attacking kids with guns, because they make up a good part of the terrorists. I dont justify the Pre-Israel Jewish terrorists organizations, but there not ones with the major terrorist organizations now. Its the Muslims.

But you fail to see the Muslim side of the fight. Muslims have cause for what they are doing. Though going after civilians is not a terrific way to go when trying to get the world to understand your reasoning. Jeruselm (I dont know if I spelled it right) is centered in Israel, and it the holy land of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. We did the same thing to the Islamic people in the middle ages as the muslims are doing to the jews now. It is hypocracy to see the muslims as evil and not look in the mirror as we say it.

Hezzbollah (please forgive my bad spelling) has killed a bunch more Israeli citizens than Israelis have killed theres. There attacking kids with guns, because they make up a good part of the terrorists. I dont justify the Pre-Israel Jewish terrorists organizations, but there not ones with the major terrorist organizations now. Its the Muslims.

Wrong. Hezbollah has certainly not killed enough to count against the 1,000+ the Israeli army killed when it invaded Lebanon.

The dead ones. Gotcha. Necropathy?



Oh? But we're at "war with muslims" and we want to "kick muslim ass," you said. Now you're moving the goal posts?

Let me clerify, there are some islamic governments that fund terrorist attacks on civilian and military targets alike. And what I meant was the we should let Israel off its leash to root out these terrorists. I think the Iraeli government would more inclined to have civil diplomatic discussions if stuff stopped blowing up everyday. In my honest opinion, both sides are going about reaching their goals the wrong way, and the United States and other western powers are not helping the situation at all!

Hezzbollah (please forgive my bad spelling) has killed a bunch more Israeli citizens than Israelis have killed theres. There attacking kids with guns, because they make up a good part of the terrorists. I dont justify the Pre-Israel Jewish terrorists organizations, but there not ones with the major terrorist organizations now. Its the Muslims.

Yes, I was thinking of Hamas, but Hezbollah is still on a much smaller scale than the Israeli military. And last time I checked, the last Israeli-Lebanese(Hezbollah?) War had tons more Lebanese casualties. and I think a fair chunk of them were civilians.

Since you acknowledge such jewish terrorist groups existed, why would you demonise Hezbollah and sympathize Israel? Considering nearly all of the leaders of Israel were involved in such organizations, like Sharon and Olmert, don't you see that it's simply a group of extremist fighting another group of extremists? Only one has a state's power behind it?

Like I said, people are going about the problem the wrong way. Israel is wrong, and so are the Arabs. Both need to be sat down and forced to settle their problems by the supposedly more responsible Western nations.

But you fail to see the Muslim side of the fight. Muslims have cause for what they are doing. Though going after civilians is not a terrific way to go when trying to get the world to understand your reasoning. Jeruselm (I dont know if I spelled it right) is centered in Israel, and it the holy land of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. We did the same thing to the Islamic people in the middle ages as the muslims are doing to the jews now. It is hypocracy to see the muslims as evil and not look in the mirror as we say it.

Yes, I know they have a reason, some muslims have misinterpreted the Koran (again please forgive my spelling) and belived that Allah wants them to kill all of the Christians and Jews. It maybe revenge for the crusades as well I suppose, but then why would they attack America? We weren't involved in the Crusades.

Yes, I was thinking of Hamas, but Hezbollah is still on a much smaller scale than the Israeli military. And last time I checked, the last Israeli-Lebanese(Hezbollah?) War had tons more Lebanese casualties. and I think a fair chunk of them were civilians.

Since you acknowledge such jewish terrorist groups existed, why would you demonise Hezbollah and sympathize Israel? Considering nearly all of the leaders of Israel were involved in such organizations, like Sharon and Olmert, don't you see that it's simply a group of extremist fighting another group of extremists? Only one has a state's power behind it?

Like I said, people are going about the problem the wrong way. Israel is wrong, and so are the Arabs. Both need to be sat down and forced to settle their problems by the supposedly more responsible Western nations.

Please exclude the United States of America, they will hardly be unbiased screwing up the talks by persuing their own agenda. Europe should handle it, since they are most directly affected by what happens down there. (except when it comes to oil; that affects everybody equally)

Yes, I know they have a reason, some muslims have misinterpreted the Koran (again please forgive my spelling) and belived that Allah wants them to kill all of the Christians and Jews. It maybe revenge for the crusades as well I suppose, but then why would they attack America? We weren't involved in the Crusades.


THis may sound like bigoted bullshit, but if you look at from that view point, then national bounderies don't matter, it is Christianity in general.

Yes, I was thinking of Hamas, but Hezbollah is still on a much smaller scale than the Israeli military. And last time I checked, the last Israeli-Lebanese(Hezbollah?) War had tons more Lebanese casualties. and I think a fair chunk of them were civilians.

Since you acknowledge such jewish terrorist groups existed, why would you demonise Hezbollah and sympathize Israel? Considering nearly all of the leaders of Israel were involved in such organizations, like Sharon and Olmert, don't you see that it's simply a group of extremist fighting another group of extremists? Only one has a state's power behind it?

Like I said, people are going about the problem the wrong way. Israel is wrong, and so are the Arabs. Both need to be sat down and forced to settle their problems by the supposedly more responsible Western nations.

I dislike the Israeli terrorists as much as I do the Muslim terrorists, but it seems like the Muslims have more terrorists than the Israelis. And Israel didnt attack America.

I dislike the Israeli terrorists as much as I do the Muslim terrorists, but it seems like the Muslims have more terrorists than the Israelis. And Israel didnt attack America.

The Muslims wouldn't have attacked america had it not been for the fact that America so clearly valued the Jews over the Islamic people, being biased in the Middle East is something one should do carefully if not at all. Valuing the lives of one people over another is wrong in every respect!

Please exclude the United States of America, they will hardly be unbiased screwing up the talks by persuing their own agenda. Europe should handle it, since they are most directly affected by what happens down there. (except when it comes to oil; that affects everybody equally)

Not really... after Britian's little empire fell apart after WWII, the U.S.A. effectively went about monitering the area from all potential bad guys(at the time, those gosh darn commies). Israel exists only because it's been saved by America fro the Soviets and their allies, the Arabs.

The Soviets, in fact, nearly invaded Israel, but were only deterred because the Americans threatend to declare war on the Soviets if they did. No-one likes a nuclear holocaust, so they didn't.

Now that the Cold War is over, the alliance is a little more than a vestige, but it still ties America to the area. Besides, with the rather reckless action taken in Iraq and Afghanistian, it's going to be a long time before the Arabs stop associating Israel with the U.S.A...probably around the same time everyone stops associating Muslims with terrorism.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep, and I don't really care to argue you this anymore, so I'm just going to assume I won the thread.:D Nothing personal.

The Muslims wouldn't have attacked america had it not been for the fact that America so clearly valued the Jews over the Islamic people, being biased in the Middle East is something one should do carefully if not at all. Valuing the lives of one people over another is wrong in every respect!

We are also allies with Saudi Arabia, which is a mostly Muslim nation. And were more catious of the Muslims then the Jews bacause the Jews didnt kill a bunch of our civillians.

Not really... after Britian's little empire fell apart after WWII, the U.S.A. effectively went about monitering the area from all potential bad guys(at the time, those gosh darn commies). Israel exists only because it's been saved by America fro the Soviets and their allies, the Arabs.

The Soviets, in fact, nearly invaded Israel, but were only deterred because the Americans threatend to declare war on the Soviets if they did. No-one likes a nuclear holocaust, so they didn't.

Now that the Cold War is over, the alliance is a little more than a vestige, but it still ties America to the area. Besides, with the rather reckless action taken in Iraq and Afghanistian, it's going to be a long time before the Arabs stop associating Israel with the U.S.A...probably around the same time everyone stops associating Muslims with terrorism.

Anyway, I'm going to sleep, and I don't really care to argue you this anymore, so I'm just going to assume I won the thread.:D Nothing personal.

yeah, I agree with you in most respects. So please leave with that in mind. ;)
And your right, you did argue the same basic point better than I did. I didn't explain myself clearly enough and it led to alot of people calling me a bigot. which I am not!

We are also allies with Saudi Arabia, which is a mostly Muslim nation. And were more catious of the Muslims then the Jews bacause the Jews didnt kill a bunch of our civillians.

This is not a creditable excuse, not in the least!

This is not a creditable excuse, not in the least!

But we dont favor Israel over Saudi Arabia were just catioius of the Muslims because we dont want another 9/11. Its being cautious not bigotry.

But we dont favor Israel over Saudi Arabia were just catioius of the Muslims because we dont want another 9/11. Its being cautious not bigotry.

Yes we do, if Saudi Arabia and Israel went to war we would side with Israel in a second instead of remaining neutral and trying to end the conflict through negotionation. We would make a mess of things again !

Hey morons. Not all Muslim nations are in the Middle East. What about Pakistan, Bangledesh, a bunch of African nations, and of course, Indonesia. So don't say crap like, "Israel can kill at Muslims rawr!" because I can assume you that Pakistan could hold back Israel.

Hey morons. Not all Muslim nations are in the Middle East. What about Pakistan, Bangledesh, a bunch of African nations, and of course, Indonesia. So don't say crap like, "Israel can kill at Muslims rawr!" because I can assume you that Pakistan could hold back Israel.

The Middle East is kind of the center of the discussion. Instability is not as major a problem in Asia as it is in the Middle East.

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)


Enlighten me. How did they win the 2006 Lebannon War? Because in my eyes all that Israel did was kill countless UN people and innocent children, bombing UN outposts, schools. And Hezbollah can say, "Israel showed weakness!" and now gain more people to their cause...Explain that.

Please let me add: One third of the Lebanese civilian casualties of the war were children under 13 years of age

Enlighten me. How did they win the 2006 Lebannon War? Because in my eyes all that Israel did was kill countless UN people and innocent children, bombing UN outposts, schools. And Hezbollah can say, "Israel showed weakness!" and now gain more people to their cause...Explain that.

I dont recall Israel bombing any schools, or killing innocent children. At least not on purpose. Hezbollah is the one shooting rockets into Israel, and killing children, and bombing schools.

I dont recall Israel bombing any schools, or killing innocent children. At least not on purpose. Hezbollah is the one shooting rockets into Israel, and killing children, and bombing schools.

Yeah, because homemade Katyusha rockets fired from the back of a truck are much deadlier than scatter-bombing an entire city.

Personally I just think we should annex Mexico, then send all the Mexicans to the Middle East and just have them build a giant wall around the region with a roof, and reopen up the Middle East Vault in 100 years and see who won. :D

Like any conflict, it can be settled in the Octagon.

Yeah, because homemade Katyusha rockets fired from the back of a truck is much deadlier than scatter-bombing an entire city.

But Israel dosnt usually scatter bomb an entire city. They also usually use rockets, but they only aim for Hezbollah militants. There maybe civilian casualties occasianly, but they dont aim for the civillians. Hezbollah aims for civillians.

Yeah, because homemade Katyusha rockets fired from the back of a truck is much deadlier than scatter-bombing an entire city.

Those rockets were more accurate then the Israeli bombers which "accidently" hit a UN outpost. HOW DO YOU ACCIDENTLY HIT A UN OUTPOST!?!?!? "Yea, um...they like Hezbollah. Let's just bomb 'em."

"Don't worry Israel. You just killed a few of our peacekeepers. Keep going, you get a free pass!"

But Israel dosnt usually scatter bomb an entire city. They also usually use rockets, but they only aim for Hezbollah militants. There maybe civilian casualties occasianly, but they dont aim for the civillians. Hezbollah aims for civillians.

Hezbollah did not "aim," it fired blindly over the border. And I suppose that just because Israel doesn't usually scatter-bomb entire cities means that it's fine if they occasionally do?

But Israel dosnt usually scatter bomb an entire city. They also usually use rockets, but they only aim for Hezbollah militants. There maybe civilian casualties occasianly, but they dont aim for the civillians. Hezbollah aims for civillians.

If you don't remember bombings of innocent Lebanese children, then get out.

HOW DO YOU ACCIDENTLY HIT A UN OUTPOST!?!?!? "

Thats easy, you miss.

Hezbollah did not "aim," it fired blindly over the border. And I suppose that just because Israel doesn't usually scatter-bomb entire cities means that it's fine if they occasionally do?

Israel bombs buildings and kills innocent people.

Hezbollah fires a few rockets and kills innocent people.

What does more damage a few rockets or a payload of bombs?

Thats easy, you miss.

Please don't make 4 word posts like that. Try to contribute.

Also, Israel has radar! They should have known where their targets were...

I dont recall Israel bombing any schools, or killing innocent children. At least not on purpose. Hezbollah is the one shooting rockets into Israel, and killing children, and bombing schools.



hahaha lol, they shoot many inoceent childeren when my dad was in lebanaon and he was a kid, there was a airstrike trying to shoot him, so how is that a aciedent, and there is no need to build the wall higher, witch part of Palestine needs more protection, the land that last 1000 homes or the land that lost 10 or less homes.

Israel bombs buildings and kills innocent people.

Hezbollah fires a few rockets and kills innocent people.

What does more damage a few rockets or a payload of bombs?

Obviously Hezbollah does more damage, as they are all evil terrorists. The noble and just Israeli army is too precise and accurate to kill civilians.

Does anyone remember Iraq ? Trying to stop Israel, would be like trying to make cyanide less painful by mixing it with arsenic. The winners wouldn't be any of those who started the conflict. There may be survivors. All of the sons of Abraham, are burning down their own houses. If the earth beneath their feet is truly the promised land, they have taken a promise in faith, and used it as excuse to inflict misery.They will reap what they sow.

1000 Lebanese civilians were killed in all. Some were killed by Hezbollah. 1000 Hezbollah militants were also killed, so Israel aimed for the Hezbollah militans, but civilians were killed. Hezbollah wounded 4000 Israeli civilians, though few civilians were actually killed there is no doubt that Hezbollah aimed for the civilians, and not the soldiers because only 100 Israeli soldiers were killed.

Obviously Hezbollah does more damage, as they are all evil terrorists. The noble and just Israeli army is too precise and accurate to kill civilians.

Sorry, but no. Hezbollah is not really a terrorist group, but what we call them . The US, Israel, etc just call them a terrorist group, that doesn't deem them BAm a terrorist group.

Noble?
Just?

What is this? Some sort of propaganda message?

1000 Lebanese civilians were killed in all. Some were killed by Hezbollah. 1000 Hezbollah militants were also killed, so Israel aimed for the Hezbollah militans, but civilians were killed. Hezbollah wounded 4000 Israeli civilians, though few civilians were actually killed there is no doubt that Hezbollah aimed for the civilians, and not the soldiers because only 100 Israeli soldiers were killed.

The Israelis aimed for Hezbollah and ended up killing hundreds of Lebanese civilians. Nice job aiming!

The Israelis aimed for Hezbollah and ended up killing hundreds of Lebanese civilians. Nice job aiming!

Well if you think Israel has bad aim what makes you think they couldnt have accidentaly hit a UN building.

Well if you think Israel has bad aim what makes you think they couldnt have accidentaly hit a UN building.

What the hell are you talking about?

What the hell are you talking about?

You said that Israel hit a UN outpost right? Then you said Israel couldnt have missed and hit the outpost, and that it must have benn intentional. Then you said that Israel did a bad job aiming because of the civilian casualties. So if they're a bad aim couldnt they have hit the UN outpost? Or did I misunderstand something you said?

You said that Israel hit a UN outpost right? Then you said Israel couldnt have missed and hit the outpost, and that it must have benn intentional. Then you said that Israel did a bad job aiming because of the civilian casualties. So if they're a bad aim couldnt they have hit the UN outpost? Or did I misunderstand something you said?

You misunderstood.

Israel hit a UN outpost, thus Israel has bad aim and killed a bunch of UN peacekeepers.

You misunderstood.

Israel hit a UN outpost, thus Israel has bad aim and killed a bunch of UN peacekeepers.

Ok, sorry about that. I misunderstood.

Sorry, but no. Hezbollah is not really a terrorist group, but what we call them . The US, Israel, etc just call them a terrorist group, that doesn't deem them BAm a terrorist group.

Noble?
Just?

What is this? Some sort of propaganda message?

Sorry for using sarcasm; it won't happen again in the future. Of course you'd think that my previous posts would have tipped you off?

Sorry for using sarcasm; it won't happen again in the future. Of course you'd think that my previous posts would have tipped you off?

sure, no problem. lol


@Brusia: It's fine. Don't worry

Israel is made of win.

Israel is made of win.

Give me proof...xD

We are also allies with Saudi Arabia, which is a mostly Muslim nation. And were more catious of the Muslims then the Jews bacause the Jews didnt kill a bunch of our civillians.

The same Saudi Arabia that's home to Wahabbism, the extreme form of Sunni Islam that's popular with Al'Qaeda and the insurgents in Iraq.

The same Saudi Arabia that was the country of origin of most of the 9-11 hijackers.

The same Saudi Arabia that's a backwards regime where women have little if any rights at all.

Riiiight.

Israel is made of win.Only militarily. Morally it has been a complete failure from the beginning.

theres a little known secret about this forum. if you say anything positive about Israel people will automatically disagree with you. there is a strong (loud) group of people on here that dislike Israel.

you can even combine it with something else and they will still disagree with your entire argument if you said something good about Israel.

What it does best is its food.
They may be the best at beating Arab nations, but I wouldn't call it a speciality. At least because I'm not 12 years old.

kick muslim ass. I mean how many wars have they fought against their islamic neighbors, its got to be at least 5 or 6. Every time they won. Every time. This may be a stupid opinion, but why doesn't the US just let Israel handle the War on Terror (or what is left of it) and leave them to root out Al-Qaeda. They are obviously better at war against muslims then we are, we can't even adequetly control as shit hole like Iraq.

Opinions?


(Again, I realize this may not be the best thought out opinion in the world but whatever. Its an idea with some ground under it....oh, and I am in no way endorsing war where diplomacy is a viable option.)

Just in case you don't know where Israel is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

The stupid hurts my brain. :(

Everyday I hate humanity just a little bit more.

... ugh.

Just... ugh.

Everyday I hate humanity just a little bit more.

I have those days, too.

Alright, Israel CANNOT defeat all of those Middle Eastern countries. It is just impossible. Now can someone shut up Aistvan, please? :D

Alright, Israel CANNOT defeat all of those Middle Eastern countries. It is just impossible. Now can someone shut up Aistvan, please? :D

True, so very true....

Give me proof...xD

Geological surveys have conclusively shown that there are substantial deposits of Win in Israel, mainly in Mesozoic strata although Win has been found in every layer from the Paleozoic through to the Holocene. Some geologists believe that Precambrian rock in Israel shows signs of significant levels of Phail, but this has never been proved.

So yes, Israel is founded on Win. :p

I love the double standard that's around nowadays. If I made a post about how good it would be to let someone "kick jewish ass," and talked about how Israel is a "shit hole" and referred to a "war against jews," I'd be flamed and banned and the thread would be closed.

And rightly so, because that's fucking bigoted trash talk.

But it seems perfectly OK with Muslims. Perfectly acceptable. No one bats an eye. I guess we can look forward to the pogroms and concentration camps, eh my good little friends who just might happen to one day wear coincidentally brown-colored clothing?


Just want to put emphasize on this. This sums it all up.

I think we had to go there, because thanks to the fact that we're in Iraq there hasnt been an attack on US soil. Why? Because terrorists are to busy trying to take Iraq back. If we hadnt gone there, there probably would have been more attacks on American soil.

You didn't really burn down the forest thinking that one through, did you....

Hezzbollah (please forgive my bad spelling) has killed a bunch more Israeli citizens than Israelis have killed theres. .

Really? What are the numbers then? ('I'm not sure' isn't an answer either)


We did the same thing to the Islamic people in the middle ages as the muslims are doing to the jews now. It is hypocracy to see the muslims as evil and not look in the mirror as we say it..

"muslims doing to Jews"? You do realise its the state of Israel occupying the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem, not the other way round......

I think the Iraeli government would more inclined to have civil diplomatic discussions if stuff stopped blowing up everyday...

"stuff" does not blow up every week, let alone everyday. You might find the "muslims" were more likely to have civil discussions if the Israeli state stopped occupying and building colonies in their land.

But Israel dosnt usually scatter bomb an entire city. They also usually use rockets, but they only aim for Hezbollah militants. There maybe civilian casualties occasianly, but they dont aim for the civillians. ...

They aim for civillians, they tie up civillians and use them as barricades in houses they take over, they walk them down the street in front of their patrols...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1358173,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1320735,00.html

http://www.btselem.org/English/Human_Shields/Index.asp

Well if you think Israel has bad aim what makes you think they couldnt have accidentaly hit a UN building....

It was an observation post that had been there for years. The IDF shelled it for three hours during which they were constantly radioed and asked to cease fire. They then took it out with a guided missile. They don't like the UN observing what they do......

Israel is made of win.....


Just like Apartheid Era South Africa was for a few decades eh? Strangely enough, none of the "win" seems to have rubbed off on you, given your propensity for dropping in wild claims and heading for the hills.....

w00t for Nodinia for making sense! :)

Israel-United States military relations have been extremely close, reflecting both shared security interests in the unstable Middle East and the influence of a strong pro-Israel lobby in the United States.

Israel has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance from the United States since 1976, and the largest total recipient since World War II. A major purchaser and user of US military equipment, Israel is also involved in the joint development of military technology and regularly engages in joint military exercises involving United States and other friendly forces.


Why don't we do this with Egypt or other countries that actually NEED economic help?

It was an observation post that had been there for years. The IDF shelled it for three hours during which they were constantly radioed and asked to cease fire. They then took it out with a guided missile. They don't like the UN observing what they do......

I think it would be accurate to say "they don't like the UN observing what they do and then posting detailed information on Israeli troop movements on a public website where any Hezbollah leader with access to the internet can access it".

I think it would be accurate to say "they don't like the UN observing what they do and then posting detailed information on Israeli troop movements on a public website where any Hezbollah leader with access to the internet can access it".

Can I see your source? And no, wikipedia does not show Israeli troops movements.

Can I see your source? And no, wikipedia does not show Israeli troops movements.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, they posted the details on the official UNIFIL website. As for the source:

UNIFIL also came under criticism during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict for broadcasting detailed reports of Israeli troop movements on their website which "could have exposed Israeli soldiers to grave danger", while making no such reports about Hezbollah.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon#Debate_over_UNIFIL_presence_and_neutrality)

And Wikipedia lists its source for that statement as being from here (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/622bqwjn.asp).

So that gives Israel a right to bomb a UN outpost?

Your logic=fail

Thanks for that wiki page:

An Israeli tank shell hit a UNIFIL position in southern Lebanon on Monday 24 July 2006, wounding four Ghanaian soldiers. UNIFIL engineers from China repaired a road connecting Tyre and Naqoura previously destroyed by the Israelis.

Shrapnel from tank shells fired by the IDF seriously wounded an Indian soldier on 16 July 2006


On 25 July 2006 four UN peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland were killed when an Israeli aerial bomb struck a UN observation post in southern Lebanon. According to the UN, the four had taken shelter in a bunker under the post. The area around the site was shelled a total of 14 times by Israeli artillery throughout the day despite communication via telephone between the UN liaison and the IDF. Later, a rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble.


Any casualties from Hezbollah? No? Oh

So that gives Israel a right to bomb a UN outpost?

Your logic=fail

Does anyone have a 'right' to fight any kind of war at all or to take the life of another human being? Be realistic: no military in the world would allow a group like UNIFIL to continue spying on them if it would put the lives of their soldiers in danger. That's simple pragmatism.

Any casualties from Hezbollah? No? Oh

I don't know if English is your first language but you're not making sense.

I don't know if English is your first language but you're not making sense.

Hey idiot. It was a retorical question. I am saying that Hezbollah did not cause any UN casualties, yet Israel did.

Listen, man.


On 25 July 2006 four UN peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland were killed when an Israeli aerial bomb struck a UN observation post in southern Lebanon. According to the UN, the four had taken shelter in a bunker under the post. The area around the site was shelled a total of 14 times by Israeli artillery throughout the day despite communication via telephone between the UN liaison and the IDF. Later, a rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble.


"Hey! I am in the UN! Stop hitting us!"

"Naa, you sound like Hezbollah. Just to be sure, we'll bomb the shit out of you."

On 25 July 2006 four UN peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland were killed when an Israeli aerial bomb struck a UN observation post in southern Lebanon. According to the UN, the four had taken shelter in a bunker under the post. The area around the site was shelled a total of 14 times by Israeli artillery throughout the day despite communication via telephone between the UN liaison and the IDF. Later, a rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble.The UN should have retaliated on that day by bombing the Knesset.

I think it would be accurate to say "they don't like the UN observing what they do and then posting detailed information on Israeli troop movements on a public website where any Hezbollah leader with access to the internet can access it".

Awwww. Look, an apologist.

Do you think this lad and the other 13 mentioned were "blogging" too?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/4534620.stm

Awwww. Look, an apologist.

*chuckles due to the irony*

Awwww. Look, an apologist.

Do you think this lad and the other 13 mentioned were "blogging" too?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/4534620.stm

That's cute: I call you out on a blatant misrepresentation and, rather than admit your mistake (I assume it was a mistake rather than deliberate dishonesty) you try to change the subject. So, by combining ad hominem and an irrelevant appeal in one post I think that you're the only one who's earned the title of 'apologist'.

...and persuade the entire rest of the planet to underwrite their economy in perpetuity. Quick, everybody - there's an Israeli in desperate need of having his ass wiped for him, somewhere out there.

Hey idiot.

Cute. I guess when you've got no case, personal abuse is your only option.

It was a retorical question. I am saying that Hezbollah did not cause any UN casualties, yet Israel did.

And this bears no relevance to the points I've been making whatsoever...

This is why I asked whether English is your first language: you don't seem to have understood any of my posts.

Listen, man.

Groovy.


On 25 July 2006 four UN peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland were killed when an Israeli aerial bomb struck a UN observation post in southern Lebanon. According to the UN, the four had taken shelter in a bunker under the post. The area around the site was shelled a total of 14 times by Israeli artillery throughout the day despite communication via telephone between the UN liaison and the IDF. Later, a rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble.


"Hey! I am in the UN! Stop hitting us!"

"Naa, you sound like Hezbollah. Just to be sure, we'll bomb the shit out of you."

And again, you post something with no relevance to what I've been saying.

I never claimed that Israel were unaware of what they were doing by shelling the observation post, I said that it was only to be expected given that UNIFIL were effectively spying for Hezbollah. No military in the world would have put its troops in danger by allowing such espionage to continue. What do you think Hezbollah would have done if UN observers were relaying the coordinates of Hezbollah rocket batteries to Israeli artillery?

That's cute: I call you out on a blatant misrepresentation and, rather than admit your mistake (I assume it was a mistake rather than deliberate dishonesty) you try to change the subject. So, by combining ad hominem and an irrelevant appeal in one post I think that you're the only one who's earned the title of 'apologist'.


It was an observation post that had been there for years. The IDF shelled it for three hours during which they were constantly radioed and asked to cease fire. They then took it out with a guided missile. They don't like the UN observing what they do......

....which, given the amount of them they seem to kill over the years, is fairly fucking obvious, to which you throw in the remark about the website, then explaining....

I never claimed that Israel were unaware of what they were doing by shelling the observation post, I said that it was only to be expected given that UNIFIL were effectively spying for Hezbollah. No military in the world would have put its troops in danger by allowing such espionage to continue.

..which presumes that the allegation of spying are true and that was the reason for the attack, and ignores the context of direct attacks on the UN by the IDF for years in Lebanon and elsewhere, either directly, or by proxy via the SLA. And yes, I've a fucking list of them.

I fail to see how I misreprented you at all. Probably by not being harsh enough, now that I see your "clarification"....if you don't like the spotlight, drop the song and dance routine.

...and persuade the entire rest of the planet to underwrite their economy in perpetuity. Quick, everybody - there's an Israeli in desperate need of having his ass wiped for him, somewhere out there.they wipe?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/ukmovies/interviews/britplayers/images/madagascar_lemur.jpg

....which, given the amount of them they seem to kill over the years, is fairly fucking obvious, to which you throw in the remark about the website, then explaining....



..which presumes that the allegation of spying are true and that was the reason for the attack, and ignores the context of direct attacks on the UN by the IDF for years in Lebanon and elsewhere, either directly, or by proxy via the SLA. And yes, I've a fucking list of them.

Do you have any evidence that the allegations aren't true? I've given you a source, and apparently the UN hasn't seen fit to publish a denial.

You seem to be ignoring the context of the bombing by refusing to accept that Israel might have been motivated by a desire to keep their troop movements secret from Hezbollah, rather than simply wanting to bomb UN troops for shits and giggles. Israel's history isn't relevant to determining whether they were justified on this one occasion.

As I've already asked Maldorians, what do you think Hezbollah would have done if UN observers were relaying the coordinates of Hezbollah rocket batteries to Israeli artillery? Hell, do you really think that any millitary would allow UN observers to endanger their troops by publishing sensitive information on a public webpage?

I fail to see how I misreprented you at all. Probably by not being harsh enough, now that I see your "clarification"....if you don't like the spotlight, drop the song and dance routine.

You didn't misrepresent me, you misrepresented the bombing of the observation post by suggesting that it was done purely so the UN didn't know what they were doing, ignoring the fact that UNIFIL was giving Hezbollah access to detailed information on Israeli troop movements.

Too bad they don't have the man power to "kick Muslim ass" as you put it. So no, the whole thing fails.

Israel is attacking the Islamic Fundie Republic of Gaza.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6257184.stm

At first glance, it sounds like they supporting the West Bank and going after Islamic Jihad.

I've given you a source, and apparently the UN hasn't seen fit to publish a denial.

Yes, and not only that I can't find another source for the allegation. Evidently your source is out all on its own, which says something, doesn't it?

You seem to be ignoring the context of the bombing by refusing to accept that Israel might have been motivated by a desire to keep their troop movements secret from Hezbollah, rather than simply wanting to bomb UN troops for shits and giggles. Israel's history isn't relevant to determining whether they were justified on this one occasion.

"Israels history", like the 1990's in Lebanon, 2000 etc in Gaza.....Thats not history, its a continuing series of planned activity.

You didn't misrepresent me, you misrepresented the bombing of the observation post by suggesting that it was done purely so the UN didn't know what they were doing, ignoring the fact that UNIFIL was giving Hezbollah access to detailed information on Israeli troop movements.

You're again presuming that your single source, (apparently not worth denying) allegation is true "the fact that UNIFIL".

What was posted on the website? When? Was it in the area? Why no denial? Wheres the CNN/BBC reportage?

I believe that at this point, the strategy of invading countries to bring democracy is not working. Here is what we need to do:

1. Empower moderate Muslims. There are moderate Muslim clerics and organizations out there. We need to strengthen them. Fund their organizations (not overtly, since a lot of moderate Muslims don't trust the West anyway), give them technical support, provide them with bodyguards, anything. This is how we will prevent the next generation of Muslim terrorists.
2. Wage a shadow war. Rather than invading countries and driving the terrorists into hiding, we should send special forces to capture them, or assassins to kill them. This is where the Israelis come in. They know how to fight this way. We arrange for them to train our guys. Shift funding from the military to the CIA. In a shadow war, intelligence is everything. Also (this is a suggestion to the Israelis as well) dump the airstrikes. The collateral damage will wreck havoc with our credibility. In fact, try not to use explosives at all. Snipers will be the preferred weapon here.
3. Win in Iraq. By win, I mean drive out Al-Qaeda and other foreign fighters, as well as cut the sectarian violence down to something the Iraqi government can handle themselves (upgrading the Iraqi police so they can deal with the current level would count). Yes, even though Iraq is the proof that invading countries to bring democracy doesn't work, it has great symbolic value. If we withdraw, the terrorists will believe that they can defeat us. Conversely, if we can outlast them, we will inspire our allies.

The collateral damage will wreck havoc with our credibility. In fact, try not to use explosives at all. Snipers will be the preferred weapon here.

Yes, theres nothing the average Palestinian school girl respects more than the deadly aim of the IDF marksman....They'll think twice before tryng any of that "hop scotch" nonsense again...

LOL @ point of this topic

Pakistan, a Muslim country would rape Israel with its hands behind its back if need be. ^_^

Yes, and not only that I can't find another source for the allegation. Evidently your source is out all on its own, which says something, doesn't it?

You're again presuming that your single source, (apparently not worth denying) allegation is true "the fact that UNIFIL".

What was posted on the website? When? Was it in the area? Why no denial? Wheres the CNN/BBC reportage?

Methinks you haven't looked very hard for a second source: most of the press releases are still freely available on the UNIFIL website (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/unifilpress_jas.html)!

Let me give you a few examples of the information found in these releases:

24 July (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr08.pdf) contains a report on the location of Israeli troops (near the village of Marun Al Ras) and of their advance in the direction of Bint Jubayl. It also states that they were reinforced overnight with tanks and mechanised infantry.

25 July (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr09.pdf) tells us that Israeli troops are now also moving towards Yarun, and that they've been joined by bulldozers and infantry.

29 July (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr013.pdf) reports that some reinforcements have been brought in, while some vehicles have withdrawn.

July 30 (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr014.pdf) reports that Israeli forces have entered Lebanon near Kafr Kila and gives their current position.

There are many more press releases, but these should be enough to prove my point. This kind of information would be extremely valuable, especially to a relatively low-tech group such as Hezbollah who might find it hard to obtain and distribute this kind of information on their own. Try asking politely for a source next time, before you go into your over-the-top theatrics and start abusing anyone who dares to contradict you, k?

Methinks you haven't looked very hard for a second source: most of the press releases are still freely available on the UNIFIL website (http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/unifilpress_jas.html)!
There are many more press releases, but these should be enough to prove my point. This kind of information would be extremely valuable, especially to a relatively low-tech group such as Hezbollah who might find it hard to obtain and distribute this kind of information on their own. ?

I looked. Thats not particularily useful, nor anything that they didn't know themselves,seeing as they are based in Southern Lebanon. Binoculars and a mobile phone is all the "tech" required there.

It also ignores the context of previous killings/attacks.

I find it odd that theres no similar reportage of this accusation on CNN/BBC etc as I mentioned earlier.

I believe that at this point, the strategy of invading countries to bring democracy is not working. Here is what we need to do:

1. Empower moderate Muslims. There are moderate Muslim clerics and organizations out there. We need to strengthen them. Fund their organizations (not overtly, since a lot of moderate Muslims don't trust the West anyway), give them technical support, provide them with bodyguards, anything. This is how we will prevent the next generation of Muslim terrorists.
2. Wage a shadow war. Rather than invading countries and driving the terrorists into hiding, we should send special forces to capture them, or assassins to kill them. This is where the Israelis come in. They know how to fight this way. We arrange for them to train our guys. Shift funding from the military to the CIA. In a shadow war, intelligence is everything. Also (this is a suggestion to the Israelis as well) dump the airstrikes. The collateral damage will wreck havoc with our credibility. In fact, try not to use explosives at all. Snipers will be the preferred weapon here.
3. Win in Iraq. By win, I mean drive out Al-Qaeda and other foreign fighters, as well as cut the sectarian violence down to something the Iraqi government can handle themselves (upgrading the Iraqi police so they can deal with the current level would count). Yes, even though Iraq is the proof that invading countries to bring democracy doesn't work, it has great symbolic value. If we withdraw, the terrorists will believe that they can defeat us. Conversely, if we can outlast them, we will inspire our allies.

That's a sensible idea. Unfortunately, if we dare to extrapolate from NSG, a good deal of people are more than content to lump moderate Muslims with the jihadis and thus eager to be rid of them all with a "Kill them all, let God sort them out" dismissive mentality.

1. Empower moderate Muslims. There are moderate Muslim clerics and organizations out there. We need to strengthen them. Fund their organizations (not overtly, since a lot of moderate Muslims don't trust the West anyway), give them technical support, provide them with bodyguards, anything. This is how we will prevent the next generation of Muslim terrorists.

I haven't seen it proven that there is such thing as moderate Muslim groups. Generally, people would like them to speak up if they exist and denounce the basic bad deeds the so called "radial" groups are doing. Ever since 9/11 it's been expected, but not a peep has from anywhere, at least not anything significant.

Why fund them if they don't like the West? What's the point? There's no guarantees where the heck the money would go. What would you intend it be used for? If they don't "like" the "West" (put in inverted commas since dozens of countries would probably qualify as being in "the West"), then what do you expect them to spend said money on?

I'm all for preventing the next generation of Muslim terrorists, something needs to be done, but how to go about it is another thing entirely.

In answer to the 1st poster. I agree, Israel's armed forces are much more adapted to desert combat in urban environments than the US forces. Sadly, it has only come through painful experience. As has the tactics the US used later in WW2, Vietnam, and Iraq :(

I haven't seen it proven that there is such thing as moderate Muslim groups. Generally, people would like them to speak up if they exist and denounce the basic bad deeds the so called "radial" groups are doing. Ever since 9/11 it's been expected, but not a peep has from anywhere, at least not anything significant.


Have you looked?