NationStates Jolt Archive

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

Because Fergie has to spell everything she's singing...

Why do you chose those two examples to represent "secular" music? Your bias is hanging out a tad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much?

You shut yo' mouth, beyotch! The Spice Girls rule.

Being totally unbiased, I do have to say that "secular" music does kick the shit out of Christian music in general.

Since when did the Jam, the Skids, the Sex Pistols, the Beat, Bad Manners, Secret Affair, the Kinks, the Who, Mannfred Mann... [continues droning for quite some time] ...and Sham 69 suck?

Plainsong fucking rocks tho', as does anything sung by choirs in Latin.

Why do you chose those two examples to represent "secular" music? Your bias is hanging out a tad.

my bias?

I have none.

99% of music doesn't try be secular. Lack of religiosity != intentional lack of religiosity. Mostly because it's better to not whinge about religion in music.

Because you picked out shitty music? :p

Since when did the Jam, the Skids, the Sex Pistols, the Beat, Bad Manners, Secret Affair, the Kinks, the Who, Mannfred Mann... [continues droning for quite some time] ...and Sham 69 suck?

Plainsong fucking rocks tho', as does anything sung by choirs in Latin.
I can't believe you mentioned the Kinks! No one ever mentions the Kinks! Hooray! Hooray!

This is a joke thread, right?

Being totally unbiased, I do have to say that "secular" music does kick the shit out of Christian music in general.

Ferrous, stop looking at the boobies in the music video, and try saying that again.

You shut yo' mouth, beyotch! The Spice Girls rule.

I used to like them a lot. :)

This is a joke thread, right?
absolutely, actually it's a parody thread.
Because you picked out shitty music? :p
one could conceive that you could do that with any genre of music, and start a thread, and bitch and moan about how you don't like the whole 2 songs you have heard in that genre and how therefore it all sucks because the people making it are stupid.

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

Most secular music (NOT COUNTING MAINSTREAM) is great. The mainstream stuff though... it's everything you listed above and more.

absolutely, actually it's a parody thread.


didn't realize that :headbang:

This is a joke thread, right?

No. Smunkee is explicitly stating that every song that doesn't directly worship Our Lord And Saviour is dire tripe in need of eradicating from history.



Damnit, I just saw Smunk's comment in the preview! YOU BROKE MY IRONY, WOMAN!

I can't believe you mentioned the Kinks! No one ever mentions the Kinks! Hooray! Hooray!

They should be mentioned more. As should the Small Faces.

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

Thread = phail

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

You must have a pretty sheltered life if you divide music up as "secular" and "religious" rather than religious genres and every other genre.

Even more sheltered if you think non religious (well I'm guessing you mean non Christian) music "sucks" merely because it ain't all about Jesus and that.

And topping that you've held up some crap pop as representative of all non religious music. Ever heard metal (and it' many sub genres)? Rock? Rap? Techno? Jaz? Soul? Classical? Blues? Darkwave? Easy listening? Electric? New wave? Punk? SKA? Industrial?

Porn groove?

It doesn't. Sorry, your attempt at parody isn't working. While a vast majority of christian music sucks, the same cannot be said of secular music, and even if it is, secular music is a much larger sample size.

Secular music has, for a start, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Slayer, System of a Down, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Husker Du, Mozart, Bach, and about every other influential composer and musician for the past 300 years.

Christian Music, on the other hand, has Creed.

Is that all the secular music you know? There's much better stuff out there.

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

A parody, a parody! To make all the more ridiculous!

You must have a pretty sheltered life if you divide music up as "secular" and "religious" rather than religious genres and every other genre.

You miss point of thread.

Gain one (1) Fail Point Token and stand in the corner facing the wall.

Mozart, Bach

Those two, secular? Why must you make me laugh?

Christian Music, on the other hand, has Creed.

Why must you make me shudder?

Those two, secular? Why must you make me laugh?



Why must you make me shudder?

Because you look so sexy when you shudder. *pictures*

Those two, secular? Why must you make me laugh?

You can be religious and still play secular music.

Also, Mozart was a total hedonist, from what I've heard.


Why must you make me shudder?

Because.

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?
Why couldn't you use an example that isn't a decade old?

Those two, secular? Why must you make me laugh?



Why must you make me shudder?

He enjoys it. *nod*

religious music = teh gay


its bad enough we have to deal with you fuckwits in public, but now we have to deal with your lack of intelligence on the internet and your shitty, shitty music!

You miss point of thread.

Gain one (1) Fail Point Token and stand in the corner facing the wall.

OK Enlighten me.

Why couldn't you use an example that isn't a decade old?

DON'T! Pop music has gotten even worse since than. What, you want AVRIL LAVINGE (Or however she spells her name) to be used as an example of secular music?

You can be religious and still play secular music.

And you can make both secular as well as religious music...

Also, Mozart was a total hedonist, from what I've heard.

... which both of them did. You cannot claim them without at the same time giving them to the religionists.

And you can make both secular as well as religious music...



... which both of them did. You cannot claim them without at the same time giving them to the religionists.

Okay, my bad.

OK Enlighten me.

It's a jest, a jape, a lark, a parody, a joke, a spoof, a ribald gesture... serious cat him say this r not seereeus thred.

religious music = teh gay

its bad enough we have to deal with you fuckwits in public, but now we have to deal with your lack of intelligence on the internet and your shitty, shitty music!

Oh, the irony.

DON'T! Pop music has gotten even worse since than. What, you want AVRIL LAVINGE (Or however she spells her name) to be used as an example of secular music?
Avril Lavigne >> Macarina > Spice Girls

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

*coughs*

Show me one example of non-secular music that kicks ass for sheer entertainment value and broad-based appeal, Smunk.

Secular music has, for a start, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Slayer, System of a Down, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Husker Du, Mozart, Bach, and about every other influential composer and musician for the past 300 years.

Mozart, maybe, but certainly not Bach. He was a church organist, and composed the music for the choir there. I think Mozart composed a mass or two as well (he at least started a requiem).

Christian music was the dominant force in the development of what we now call Western music. From 'Gregorian' plainchant through 16th century polyphony and onwards, almost all composers were influenced by church music, some, such as JS Bach, were devoted almost solely to it. However, transfering into popular song and rock hasn't really worked for it, but fortunately there is still some decent, mostly choral, music written with religious basis. Music is one of the few things I thank the christian church for.

Avril Lavigne >> Macarina > Spice Girls

More like Avril Lavigne>Spice Girls> Macarena>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fergie.

*coughs*

Show me one example of non-secular music that kicks ass for sheer entertainment value and broad-based appeal, Smunk.

psssst... smunk said herself that this is a parody thread. *nod*

Christian music was the dominant force in the development of what we now call Western music. From 'Gregorian' plainchant through 16th century polyphony and onwards, almost all composers were influenced by church music, some, such as JS Bach, were devoted almost solely to it. However, transfering into popular song and rock hasn't really worked for it, but fortunately there is still some decent, mostly choral, music written with religious basis. Music is one of the few things I thank the christian church for.

The Church didn't invent music.

Christian music was the dominant force in the development of what we now call Western music. From 'Gregorian' plainchant through 16th century polyphony and onwards, almost all composers were influenced by church music, some, such as JS Bach, were devoted almost solely to it. However, transfering into popular song and rock hasn't really worked for it, but fortunately there is still some decent, mostly choral, music written with religious basis. Music is one of the few things I thank the christian church for.

You can call it 'Western music' all you want, but frankly, I prefer what went before - and I doff my hat to the musicians of today who try reaching past 500 years of stifling indoctrination to retrieve and revive traditional forms of music. And this suppression of indigenous music and culture is one of many things I blame on Christendom.

The Church didn't invent music.

Music predates Christianity by centuries, if not millenia.

psssst... smunk said herself that this is a parody thread. *nod*

Not in the OP, she didn't. *shakes*

It's a jest, a jape, a lark, a parody, a joke, a spoof, a ribald gesture... serious cat him say this r not seereeus thred.

I only read the 1st page before posting, settle down.

More like Avril Lavigne>Spice Girls> Macarena>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Fergie.

Avril Lavigne can't carry a tune in a bucket without computer synthesization, she goes last.

You shut yo' mouth, beyotch! The Spice Girls rule.

For once I agree with Fass, Spice Girls rule :)

I only read the 1st page before posting, settle down.

It says it on the first page

For once I agree with Fass, Spice Girls rule :)

You've made me lose faith in the humanity of my fellow man. What kind of monster could enjoy that :p

You've made me lose faith in the humanity of my fellow man. What kind of monster could enjoy that :p

Somebody who's brainwashed by music corporations? :p

Somebody who's brainwashed by music corporations? :p

If ya wanna be my lover
Gotta start with my friend
Friendship last forever

As parody threads go, this one sucks eggs.

If ya wanna be my lover
Gotta get with my friends
Friendship last forever

I feel so dirty for correcting Spice Girls lyrics

The Church didn't invent music.

Yes. And?

You can call it 'Western music' all you want, but frankly, I prefer what went before - and I doff my hat to the musicians of today who try reaching past 500 years of stifling indoctrination to retrieve and revive traditional forms of music. And this suppression of indigenous music and culture is one of many things I blame on Christendom.

Considering folk music traditions have held out throughout the last 500 years, I'm not sure what you are refering to.

Considering folk music traditions have held out throughout the last 500 years

Barely. And luckily. And sometimes, not so much.

Maybe because it's so dominated by businesses that most creativity or independence is quashed by said companies in the name of marketing to the demographics that generate revenue? Remember, the lowest common denominator does sell, and it sells well because too many people lack the taste or experience with music to know what is good and what is schlock.

It's like the film Brazil. Terry Gillam's original was a dark, satirical comedy that ended on a disturbing note. Hollywood execs, in particular Ed Sheinburg, didn't like that and wanted to remake it to have a happy ending, and the result was a botched film that captured none of the original's vision. Thankfully, the film was eventually released in its original form, but not before the terrible recut version was made.

Barely. And luckily. And sometimes, not so much.

So you feel that, without the Church's control, music would have developed at a faster rate and we would now be 'further' in developments course? I'm not sure you could really suggest whether it would be better or not, certainly different. Though, that musical notation - the real driving force in development of music style, at least in the 11th-15th centuries - was a development made by church musicians and teachers; maybe a similar system would have been developed separately, perhaps giving more freedom of rhythmic and melodic complexity.

EDIT: I'm off out so won't be able to reply until tomorrow.

You must have a pretty sheltered life if you divide music up as "secular" and "religious" rather than religious genres and every other genre.

Even more sheltered if you think non religious (well I'm guessing you mean non Christian) music "sucks" merely because it ain't all about Jesus and that.

And topping that you've held up some crap pop as representative of all non religious music. Ever heard metal (and it' many sub genres)? Rock? Rap? Techno? Jaz? Soul? Classical? Blues? Darkwave? Easy listening? Electric? New wave? Punk? SKA? Industrial?

Porn groove?
uh......no never heard of any of that music. I guess I should check some of it out, maybe my bandmates would like it.



oh, and Z....whateveryournameis Creed isn't a Christian band. Find me a real Christian rock band that you don't like and I will leave you alone.

Secular music has, for a start, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Slayer, System of a Down, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Husker Du, Mozart, Bach, and about every other influential composer and musician for the past 300 years.


Zarak, you're mostly right, but, um, not so much with Bach on that list. The man wrote mostly sacred music. His best music is probably his sacred music. Same for Mozart. Requiem anyone?

Plainsong fucking rocks tho', as does anything sung by choirs in Latin.

I have never seen that written before in my life… but if I'm lucky, maybe I'll see it again. :p

Music predates Christianity by centuries, if not millenia.ah, but does Music predate Religon? :p

ah, but does Music predate Religon? :p

Given that both have existed as far back as we have historical record, I would say that they both stem from the same set of "human" traits, and are both as old as one another.

Smunkee, your problem is that you think what's on the radio represents all "Secular" music.

Chirstian music sucks, secular music sucks? How about a compromise?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ-qdScZXuY

Smunkee, your problem is that you think what's on the radio represents all "Secular" music.

I think her ACTUAL problem is that she's being sarky and you guys aren't getting it. :p

I think her ACTUAL problem is that she's being sarky and you guys aren't getting it. :p

No, the problem is her "sarky" isn't funny or clever in any way.

Sorry Smunk, you're usually awesome, but this thread sucks.

No, the problem is her "sarky" isn't funny or clever in any way.

no, sir, my problem is you.

You shut yo' mouth, beyotch! The Spice Girls rule.

For once I agree with Fass, Spice Girls rule :)

... the ninth plane of Hell. :D

Smunkee, your problem is that you think what's on the radio represents all "Secular" music.

Or perhaps, her problem is that the person who made the thread she's parodying acts like what's on the radio for Christian music represents all Christian music, so much so he doesn't realize Bach was a Christian composer. Her problem is that the person who made the thread she's parodying can't tell the difference between the music of a few people within a GIGANTIC group like Christians and the entirety of that group. That's her problem.

So she made a thread she TOLD you was a joke. The thread points out that if Christians on this board adopted that us and them attitude that people would be jumping all over the fallacious nature of it. You've proven that point. Thanks for that.

No, the problem is her "sarky" isn't funny or clever in any way.

Sorry Smunk, you're usually awesome, but this thread sucks.

I think it's been very effective. A - It irks you because it points out the fallacies that appear in nearly all of your claims regarding Christians. No, you don't have to agree. Your ire is enough evidence. B - Everyone that was praising your claims in the other thread is hear pointing out such claims that a few examples represent a type of music that has been around for millennia is more than bizarre, but simply and absurdly fallacious. It did exactly what she set out to do. Exactly what she told many of us it WOULD do on another forum. It would get the people she was tired of arguing with to attack their own tactics as you've done here.

And I'll tell you, I laughed my behind off when I saw you appear in this thread and do EXACTLY what she'd hoped you'd do. Man, if you're a puppet, she's certainly pulling your strings. How's that work for ya?

Or perhaps, her problem is that the person who made the thread she's parodying acts like what's on the radio for Christian music represents all Christian music, so much so he doesn't realize Bach was a Christian composer. Her problem is that the person who made the thread she's parodying can't tell the difference between the music of a few people within a GIGANTIC group like Christians and the entirety of that group. That's her problem.

So she made a thread she TOLD you was a joke. The thread points out that if Christians on this board adopted that us and them attitude that people would be jumping all over the fallacious nature of it. You've proven that point. Thanks for that.
But I've never said anything about Christian music being bad or good, except that Christian rock stations suck. Fuck, some of the music I listen to is by Christians.
Thus, this thread is fail.
No, the problem is her "sarky" isn't funny or clever in any way.

Sorry Smunk, you're usually awesome, but this thread sucks.
Agreed.

*coughs*

Show me one example of non-secular music that kicks ass for sheer entertainment value and broad-based appeal, Smunk.

Handel's messiah?

Or perhaps, her problem is that the person who made the thread she's parodying acts like what's on the radio for Christian music represents all Christian music, so much so he doesn't realize Bach was a Christian composer. Her problem is that the person who made the thread she's parodying can't tell the difference between the music of a few people within a GIGANTIC group like Christians and the entirety of that group. That's her problem.

So she made a thread she TOLD you was a joke. The thread points out that if Christians on this board adopted that us and them attitude that people would be jumping all over the fallacious nature of it. You've proven that point. Thanks for that.

Is not the thread she is making fun of have some limitations to it that make it more reasonable then Christian music as a whole

If I remember it had some rather big restrictions such as it being only in a "rock" genera to start with

It would have been a much more effective parody to find a similar set of restrictions to place on the parody thread (like Secular Rock ... or another specific genera)

Unless I am thinking of a completely different thread she is parodying

I think it's been very effective. A - It irks you because it points out the fallacies that appear in nearly all of your claims regarding Christians. No, you don't have to agree. Your ire is enough evidence.

I'm sorry, not finding something funny means I'm angry about it?

And I haven't made any claims regarding christians in the thread that's being parodied. I've certainly made claims regarding Christian Rock music, however. Learn to identify the actual target, instead of letting your persecution complex kick in.

But I've never said anything about Christian music being bad or good, except that Christian rock stations suck. Fuck, some of the music I listen to is by Christians.
Thus, this thread is fail.

Surely music by christians and christian music isn't the same thing.

Surely music by christians and christian music isn't the same thing.

Well said.

Otherwise I'd be giggling at stuff like Slayer being classifed as christian music.

Man, that would be a great hymn!

"Raaaiiinnniiiinnggg Bloooooodddd Frooooommm Aaaaa Laaaaceeeerrrrraaaattteeed Skkkkyyyyyyyyy!"

I'd go to that church.

Well said.

Otherwise I'd be giggling at stuff like Slayer being classifed as christian music.

Man, that would be a great hymn!

"Raaaiiinnniiiinnggg Bloooooodddd Frooooommm Aaaaa Laaaaceeeerrrrraaaattteeed Skkkkyyyyyyyyy!"

I'd go to that church.

apparently to some people in your thread it is not

The same way Christian Yoga sucks. :p

I guess it is from not realising that trying to act cool, without actually being cool, makes you look sillier.

it's so nice to know that Christians are by definition "uncool"

it's so nice to know that Christians are by definition "uncool"

Name me one "cool" Christian. Hayley Williams, perhaps, but then again, the whole pre-marital sex thing tends to stop her being a cool musician.

Because Fergie has to spell everything she's singing...
That shit is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-A-S.
The Church didn't invent music.
Yet, it shaped its development for a few centuries. Had it banned polyphony when it originally wanted to, rather than accepting Perotin music would be quite different
I only read the 1st page before posting, settle down.read thread, then post.

Smunkee, your problem is that you think what's on the radio represents all "Secular" music.No, her problem is that people assume she is being serious.

It doesn't. Sorry, your attempt at parody isn't working. While a vast majority of christian music sucks, the same cannot be said of secular music, and even if it is, secular music is a much larger sample size.

Secular music has, for a start, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Slayer, System of a Down, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Husker Du, Mozart, Bach, and about every other influential composer and musician for the past 300 years.

Christian Music, on the other hand, has Creed.

Don't forget that one of the greatest bands ever is very christian. 16 Horsepower
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO9My5_H6dg)

This thread needs a poll. Moar poles!


*demands*

But I've never said anything about Christian music being bad or good, except that Christian rock stations suck. Fuck, some of the music I listen to is by Christians.
Thus, this thread is fail.

Really? Did you make the other thread? I'm almost certain it didn't limit it's judgement to the radio. Let's see.

I was just wondering, what makes Christian rock/christian metal/christian punk/unblack metal/etc. so bad? Is it the music, the lyrics, the general feel of it?

I'm guessing it's the lyrics.

Nope. No mention of the radio. In fact, it seems to also spread itself far beyond just rock.



And the lyrics lack tension. Seriously, most pop music isn't lyrically challenging, but good songs have tension in them, just like good poems. The handful of Christian rock songs I've heard are all about praising God, and the only times struggle is mentioned is in the sense that God's going to pull them through. Great songs of any type are about the personal struggle. Robert Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" is a thousand times more poignant than anything to come out of Christian rock that I've heard.

A general statement about Christian lyrics broadened from "the handful of Christian Rock songs I've heard." Seems like that's a fallacy aching to be pointed out.

the lryics aren't creative at all. some are good with instrumentation. it still sucks

Again, not limited at all. Same fallacy. I guess you must have pointed out in the thread that it's a fallacy, no? I mean, you wouldn't want to be inconsistent.

The only good christian music is gospel.

Again, very broad statement by another person who can't tell the difference between bigotry and a cognitive approach to analyzing something. I'm sure, that again, you must have objected.


I'm not a big fan of Christian music. Mostly because of Christain radio's blatnet, "Give us money if you love Jesus," commercials.

Oh, look, I don't like what's on the radio so Christian music sucks. Again, don't worry, I know you must have pointed out this fallacy.

With the exception of actually *composed* music, like Bach, christian (or any religious) music rarely turns out well.

Like I said, majorly broad statements, generally not limited to Rock.

Because Rock'N'Roll is the music of kids angry about the shit we get fed every day. Christianity is part and parcel of the shit we get fed every day. Christian rockers are basically old man music set to a more modern sound. They sound silly.

Yay. Now we get into Christian music sucks because Christianity sucks. Again, you certianly must have corrected this, no?

I mainly don't like Christian rock bands that only ever sing about Christianity. I don't want to hear about how much you love Jesus.

Yay, Christianity sucks. Oh, you have to have corrected his fallacies, no? I'm sure you did.


And, worse, even in this very post you make the stupid claim that some music you listen is by Christians and therefore that has something to say about Christian music. Christian music and music by people who happen to be Christian are not the same. As you can see, it's your post that's "made of phail"

Name me one "cool" Christian. Hayley Williams, perhaps, but then again, the whole pre-marital sex thing tends to stop her being a cool musician.

I would assume that out of the 2.1 billion Christians, one or two must be decent

I would assume that out of the 2.1 billion Christians, one or two must be decent

Decent? Clearly, but "cool" is a different entity dude.....;)

Is Cliff Richard really likely to fulfil the requirements of being a bona fide rockstar?

I'm sorry, not finding something funny means I'm angry about it?

And I haven't made any claims regarding christians in the thread that's being parodied. I've certainly made claims regarding Christian Rock music, however. Learn to identify the actual target, instead of letting your persecution complex kick in.

I did. Would you like quotes. I love quotes. You know, that function that quotes the things you actually say so you can't pretend like you didn't say them. For example, I bet you don't even notice how biased your poll is? You basically can't say you enjoy any Christian music without saying all other music is of the Devil. Ah, but trolling polls don't reveal anything, now do they?

Like I said, should I start with quotes?

Name me one "cool" Christian. Hayley Williams, perhaps, but then again, the whole pre-marital sex thing tends to stop her being a cool musician.

In general or a Christian musician?

Name me one "cool" Christian. Hayley Williams, perhaps, but then again, the whole pre-marital sex thing tends to stop her being a cool musician.

The whole band 16 Horsepower is the definition of cool christians, they got the whole package. Banjos, Contrabass(I think it's called that, you know, the big bass-violin you slap your hand on?), dark lyrics, crazy voice and they all look pretty much insane.

Ummm... well, maybe not the defintion of cool, but still... they're special :p

In general or a Christian musician?

Either suits me.

Decent? Clearly, but "cool" is a different entity dude.....;)

Is Cliff Richard really likely to fulfil the requirements of being a bona fide rockstar?

I don't think most rock stars fulfull the requirements of being a rock star.


Like I said, should I start with quotes?
*nods*

*emphatically*

Name me one "cool" Christian. Hayley Williams, perhaps, but then again, the whole pre-marital sex thing tends to stop her being a cool musician.

Bach, Vaughan Williams, James Thomson.

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

If you intentially pick horrid songs then you would be able to make this claim. Luckily there is much more that isn't as bad as the links you provided.

If you intentially pick horrid songs then you would be able to make this claim. Luckily there is much more that isn't as bad as the links you provided.

Um, Trace, that was kind of the point.

I actually think there's an interesting point being made here. Obviously he's cherry-picked two very bad examples of "secular music," but wouldn't it be fair to say that the vast majority of all music being produced today sucks, Christian or secular? Maybe the difference is that for secular music, having most of the music out there suck means there are still thousands of quality artists, while for Christian music the same ratio puts the number of quality Christian artists in the tens.

Bach, Vaughan Williams, James Thomson.

erm... who?

Bach doesn't count either. Christianity was a contemporary necessity.

Um, Trace, that was kind of the point.

I must have missed something, as the OP didn't sound like it was sarcastic in anyway. Unless it was some sort of trick to get me to listen to the Spice Girls.

*shudders*

Name me one "cool" Christian.

Smunkee. *nods*

I actually think there's an interesting point being made here. Obviously he's cherry-picked two very bad examples of "secular music," but wouldn't it be fair to say that the vast majority of all music being produced today sucks, Christian or secular? Maybe the difference is that for secular music, having most of the music out there suck means there are still thousands of quality artists, while for Christian music the same ratio puts the number of quality Christian artists in the tens.She was making a parody of another thread. She's saying that in the other thread (about how much Christian music sucks) that the OP chose songs that sucked, and used them to claim the entire genre sucks.

erm... who?

Bach doesn't count either. Christianity was a contemporary necessity.Did he or did he not compose Christian music? Plenty of etudes were also composed at the time which were inherently secular...

Um, Trace, that was kind of the point.
can we get a banner at the top of each page that says "READ FIRST THEN POST"?

I must have missed something, as the OP didn't sound like it was sarcastic in anyway. Unless it was some sort of trick to get me to listen to the Spice Girls.

*shudders*

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12827848&postcount=14

Smunkee. *nods*

I'm on the record in her sig of calling her the best conservative christian ever! Wooo!!!

Sorry if I offended you Smunk, but you must admit, that a large majority of christian rock sucks. Even greater a majority than normal rock.

erm... who?

Bach doesn't count either. Christianity was a contemporary necessity.

You hate Britain. :mad:

Either suits me.

Smunkee, JuNii, Ashmoria to name a few on NS.

It's not like you have to take a vow of lameness to become Christian.

If you intentially pick horrid songs then you would be able to make this claim. Luckily there is much more that isn't as bad as the links you provided.

:( Spice Girls are fantastic... Simple mindnumbing tunes with meaningless lyrics without meaning, it's just great relaxation :)

She was making a parody of another thread. She's saying that in the other thread (about how much Christian music sucks) that the OP chose songs that sucked, and used them to claim the entire genre sucks.


If you'll look, I didn't provide songs. I merely stated that the genre of Christian Rock is considered by many, including myself, to suck. You'll notice the posts on the thread back up the statement that many believe christian rock sucks.

See, whereas I besmirched an entire genre of music and people agreed with me despite me having used NO examples, Smunkee provided two bad songs to claim "secular" music sucks, as an attempt at parody.

I'm on the record in her sig of calling her the best conservative christian ever! Wooo!!!

Sorry if I offended you Smunk, but you must admit, that a large majority of christian rock sucks. Even greater a majority than normal rock.

While I can't answer for her, I'm gonna take a shot in the dark.
You created a thread that was titled "Why does Christian rock music suck so much". This doesn't claim that a few songs, some songs, or most songs suck: it claims they all do.
As for "a large majority", I'm assuming you don't actively seek out Christian music to listen to? Lets look at me and country music. I don't have many friends that listen to it. Many songs I've heard, I don't like. I don't actively seek it out. Does that mean that most or all of the genre sucks? No. Same as any genre, there are many variations, and I haven't found the ones that I like.
Now, I have some friends that listen to it, and I have found ones that I like. Has the music radically changed and become better in the last 3 months? No. I just found it.

I'm on the record in her sig of calling her the best conservative christian ever! Wooo!!!

Sorry if I offended you Smunk, but you must admit, that a large majority of christian rock sucks. Even greater a majority than normal rock.

It's also a smaller genre and a newer one. Christian record labels are just like secular ones. They want the bands that will make the most money. They know they can sell bubble-gum pop, so that's what they mostly sign. They're still in the learning process.

Actually there's some very good Christian music out there, but it's mostly indy/local.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12827848&postcount=14

Well, this is what you get for not reading any farther than the OP. :p

Actually there's some very good Christian music out there, but it's mostly indy/local.

Fair enough, but you must admit that almost every genre's review of whether you like it or not is based on the mainstream, well-known groups, as opposed to obscure indy/local bands. It would be like me judging the entire genre of rock based on local bands.

:( Spice Girls are fantastic... Simple mindnumbing tunes with meaningless lyrics without meaning, it's just great relaxation :)

I actually do quite like them myself. Harmless fun and all, which is sort of banned these days.

:( Spice Girls are fantastic... Simple mindnumbing tunes with meaningless lyrics without meaning, it's just great relaxation :)

:eek: :headbang: :p

I actually do quite like them myself. Harmless fun and all, which is sort of banned these days.

There's plenty of good bands with great music and lyrics with no deeper meaning whatsoever.

...The only one I can think of right now is Cannibal Corpse. Damn.

I actually do quite like them myself. Harmless fun and all, which is sort of banned these days.

Yup, that's what I mean, and I regularly indulge myself in harmless fun :) Maybe I should grow up :(

I don't think most rock stars fulfull the requirements of being a rock star.



*nods*

*emphatically*

Sure.

Okay, religion has no place in the workplace. Christian bullshit doesn't have a place in the workplace, neither does Muslim bullshit. End of story.


::is wondering exactly what "Christian Bullshit" Zarakon feels is comparable to breast feeding co-workers and urine fatwahs::
:confused:

Constant, 24/7 spewing of hatred towards many groups.

Fair enough, but you must admit that almost every genre's review of whether you like it or not is based on the mainstream, well-known groups, as opposed to obscure indy/local bands. It would be like me judging the entire genre of rock based on local bands.

Or you could try judging the genre like it's not just one big mass, but instead made of a many, many different types of music and musicians. If you start with the broad paintbrushes, you're pretty much always going to look silly.

If you'll look, I didn't provide songs. I merely stated that the genre of Christian Rock is considered by many, including myself, to suck. You'll notice the posts on the thread back up the statement that many believe christian rock sucks.

See, whereas I besmirched an entire genre of music and people agreed with me despite me having used NO examples, Smunkee provided two bad songs to claim "secular" music sucks, as an attempt at parody.

Right. So, you started a thread, and said "Christian music sucks", yet didn't even provide an example of a song that you thought sucked (and, let's be honest, music is inanely subjective).

I assume you don't actively seek out Christian music? Hear it in passing with friends? Are continually exposed to it as you are whatever genre of music you may choose to identify as your favorite?

Your claim was the same as me saying "Metal sucks", "rap sucks", "ska sucks" "rock sucks", "pop sucks", "brodudes suck", "fratboys suck", "scenesters suck", "goths suck", "geeks suck"...pick a category, add sucks. You get the point.

The fact is, there is good and bad in all of these. Moreover, "good" and "bad" in relation to these categories is entirely subjective. Denegrating an entire genre is simply showing ignorance and refusal to expose yourself. Which, really, isn't that big of a deal. It's just no different than anyone else who hates based off of ignorance and refusal to learn.

If you'll look, I didn't provide songs. I merely stated that the genre of Christian Rock is considered by many, including myself, to suck. You'll notice the posts on the thread back up the statement that many believe christian rock sucks.

How is this a defense? You broadbrushed an entire genre much of which you admit you've not been exposed. Offered no evidence. And *gasp* some people agreed with you. Shall I point out the fallacies there, or can you find them on your own? Here's a hint Appeal to _______

It doesn't. Sorry, your attempt at parody isn't working. While a vast majority of christian music sucks, the same cannot be said of secular music, and even if it is, secular music is a much larger sample size.

Secular music has, for a start, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Slayer, System of a Down, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Husker Du, Mozart, Bach, and about every other influential composer and musician for the past 300 years.

Christian Music, on the other hand, has Creed.
Since when is most of Bach's work secular and not religious?

I would say with Bach you get the best of both worlds, eh?

I actually do quite like them myself. Harmless fun and all, which is sort of banned these days.
We have lots of it. People just complain that music sucks (granted, most still listen as guilty pleasures.)
Sure.
To be fair, I'm sure he atleast takes a nap every once and a while. Hating that much is exhausing

How is this a defense? You broadbrushed an entire genre much of which you admit you've not been exposed. Offered no evidence. And *gasp* some people agreed with you. Shall I point out the fallacies there, or can you find them on your own? Here's a hint Appeal to _______
I like this game. How about this one: Argument from _________

Name me one "cool" Christian.
Right here.

We have lots of it. People just complain that music sucks (granted, most still listen as guilty pleasures.)

What's there to be guilty about? :confused:

What's there to be guilty about? :confused:

I dunno...appearently, people feel the need to bitch about Jessica Simpson and Fall Out Boy in public, but then go home to listen to it (it is fun to catch them, tho :) )

although, it seems that several of my friends have been won over by the most recent Fall Out Boy.

edit: I do remember a similar situation with Spice Girls, tho...

Yes, I know what you mean :) I just got Fall Out Boy thanks to a roommate, let's try it...

Fair enough, but you must admit that almost every genre's review of whether you like it or not is based on the mainstream, well-known groups, as opposed to obscure indy/local bands. It would be like me judging the entire genre of rock based on local bands.

True enough. Then again. Most mainstream music sucks IMO. Christian and secular.

Yes, I know what you mean :) I just got Fall Out Boy thanks to a roommate, let's try it...

you know, I never found them to be all that shallow. Sure, they're pop-punk (with some level of mock pop-punk going on), and yeah, there is some stuff on the new CD that really sucks, but they aren't nearly as bad as people claim they are.

A general statement about Christian lyrics broadened from "the handful of Christian Rock songs I've heard." Seems like that's a fallacy aching to be pointed out.

Quit putting words into poster's mouths, bitch. Seems like that's a consistent tendency of yours just aching to be pointed out - time, and time, and time again. In perpetuity, in fact.

Shut up.

Quit putting words into poster's mouths, bitch. Seems like that's a consistent tendency of yours just aching to be pointed out - time, and time, and time again. In perpetuity, in fact.

Shut up.

It seems like I quoted The Nazz. But, hey, you're just making a reasonable argument, no? Not flaming me, of course. You'd never do that.

And the lyrics lack tension. Seriously, most pop music isn't lyrically challenging, but good songs have tension in them, just like good poems. The handful of Christian rock songs I've heard are all about praising God, and the only times struggle is mentioned is in the sense that God's going to pull them through. Great songs of any type are about the personal struggle. Robert Johnson's "Me and the Devil Blues" is a thousand times more poignant than anything to come out of Christian rock that I've heard.

He talks about having only heard a handful of songs, and generalizes about Christian Rock in general lacking tension. That's a direct quote. I'm sorry if you don't like people noticing the fallacy there.

Let's face it: secular music does suck.

That's why all good metal bands write about the devil.

Is this some kind of sick joke?

99% of music doesn't try be secular. Lack of religiosity != intentional lack of religiosity. Mostly because it's better to not whinge about religion in music.

Erm, have you not realised this thread isnt serious

The author is doing what the other author did. Taking bad examples of music and then tarring all music of its kind with the same brush.

It seems like I quoted The Nazz. But, hey, you're just making a reasonable argument, no? Not flaming me, of course. You'd never do that.



He talks about having only heard a handful of songs, and generalizes about Christian Rock in general lacking tension. That's a direct quote. I'm sorry if you don't like people noticing the fallacy there.
Like I give a rat's ass.

I love you Smunkee, but my thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t528063) mocking Ban Liden was better.

I love you Smunkee, but my thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t528063) mocking Ban Liden was better.

Invalid link.

Invalid link.
Oops. This (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12698023#post12698023) any better?

why does secular music suck so much?
No soul?

She was making a parody of another thread. She's saying that in the other thread (about how much Christian music sucks) that the OP chose songs that sucked, and used them to claim the entire genre sucks.

My mistake on the gender thing.

And I immediately recognized the satirical nature of the post, but the point I mentioned doesn't have to be made on purpose to be an interesting one. ;)

I love you Smunkee, but I think my thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=528063) mocking Ban Liden was better.

I love you Smunkee, but my thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t528063) mocking Ban Liden was better.

Puppet senses.......tingling.

Puppet senses.......tingling.:fluffle:
Do you like my "reason for deletion"?

the worst thing a parent can ever do to a child is take away "secular" music. that and make the child live like they are in church at all times.

this will only make the child resent religion and end up very "secular" once they gain freedom from your home. I'm not saying you should let your kids do whatever they want. you do have to have some limits, but constantly controlling every song they are allowed to listen to and if it doesn't have the words "Jesus loves you in it" then it must be an evil song.

Well, this is what you get for not reading any farther than the OP. :ptrue dat. but you like the sox, so you are forgiven.

My mistake on the gender thing.

And I immediately recognized the satirical nature of the post, but the point I mentioned doesn't have to be made on purpose to be an interesting one. ;)
haha...I may or may not have just posted to correct you on smunkees gender ;)
Like I give a rat's ass.
You cared enough not only to post, but to flame. If you dislike him so much, why not just ignore him?

haha...I may or may not have just posted to correct you on smunkees gender ;)

Heh, I appreciate it though. That's a mistake I'd hate to keep making. :D

the worst thing a parent can ever do to a child is take away "secular" music. that and make the child live like they are in church at all times.

this will only make the child resent religion and end up very "secular" once they gain freedom from your home. I'm not saying you should let your kids do whatever they want. you do have to have some limits, but constantly controlling every song they are allowed to listen to and if it doesn't have the words "Jesus loves you in it" then it must be an evil song.

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

you win the thread.


if winning means completely screwing up.

Silly Smunkeeville, God doesn't exist--I mean...Trix are for kids.

I wouldn't call that secular music, more like suckular music. But don't think for a second that there isn't a load of Christian rock that doesn't suck donkey balls.

And if you don't believe me about that whole God not existing thing I'm wearing a lightning rod hat right now to make it easier for God to strike me down for my many serious sins.

Nothing yet.

Still nothing.

Was that something? Nope. Nothing.

Looks like that transmission is going out after all.

Silly Smunkeeville, God doesn't exist--I mean...Trix are for kids.
saying that God doesn't exist is just as irrational as saying God does exist, and Trix are for me!

I wouldn't call that secular music, more like suckular music. But don't think for a second that there isn't a load of Christian rock that doesn't suck donkey balls.
there is a load of music within any genre that sucks, my point was you don't need to single out an entire artificial genre and say it sucks, especially when you haven't sampled all of it. Those who speak in absolutes are always wrong.

And if you don't believe me about that whole God not existing thing I'm wearing a lightning rod hat right now to make it easier for God to strike me down for my many serious sins.

Nothing yet.

Still nothing.

Was that something? Nope. Nothing.

Looks like that transmission is going out after all.

you set up a false situation there didn't ya?

No god's existance can be proven. Until that changes faith in God is superstition. But that doesn't matter because I'm hungry for action! And Reeses Puff Cereal. Reeses for breakfast?!

The one variable you failed to factor into your equations was that all British music sucks. And only Sith deal in absolutes. Help me destroy the Sith.

I'm goin' to hell! I'm goin' to hell! Mother T was a sadistic monster. I'm goin' to hell! I'm goin' to hell! Hooray for blasphemy! Com'on God, strike me down! Look, I'm covetting my neighbors wife AND things! And I'm making icons and statues! What are you going to do about it, God?

you set up a false situation there didn't ya?
Sort of like you did with this ridiculousness there didn't you?

Silly me, though. God doesn't strike us down in this life. He waits until after we die to torture us forever. He's loving that way.

examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z7t-Ox3XvU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpu0ROaPLQ

why does it suck so much? is it the lyrics? or the music? or is it just because people are stupid?

It's because the mass produced media have a market equilibrium in the area of slightly sub par to outright crap. It's not that good music can't become popular, it's that the effort it takes a recording company to go and find a genuinely good act costs the company more money than will be made by finding the first five shitty acts that come along and will allow the record company to churn out millions of CD's in their name in exchange for a hundred thousand dollars.

It's not just music though. When people ask "why are HBO's original shows so good" the usual answer is "because they don't make a lot of episodes each year. It gives the writers time to think of stuff to put in them."

Think about how much time can be spent on writing jokes for one episode of a sitcom when it must be written, rehearsed and filmed in the space of an episode a week. And the whole time, advertisers are pushing for more time, less quality, because they want people there to see commercials. Not quality fiction.

And since this is just a gripe in response to the Christian Rock thread I'll sum up thusly:

Christian music sucks because it is an effort to dress an authoritarian belief system up in the trappings of an iconoclastic sub-culture in the hopes of tricking young people into a religion. It is not so much an art form as it is an elaborate campaign of deceit.

Secular music sucks because of the same thing, except instead of trying to sell religion, they're trying to sell everything else.

Domici. We have much to learn from you.:)

Silly Smunkeeville, God doesn't exist--I mean...Trix are for kids.

I wouldn't call that secular music, more like suckular music. But don't think for a second that there isn't a load of Christian rock that doesn't suck donkey balls.

And if you don't believe me about that whole God not existing thing I'm wearing a lightning rod hat right now to make it easier for God to strike me down for my many serious sins.

Nothing yet.

Still nothing.

Was that something? Nope. Nothing.

Looks like that transmission is going out after all.

God doesn't strike down people who don't believe in him. He only strikes down those who do. That's why the strippers and bartenders were the first back to work after Katrina. It's a bit like how diplomats in NYC don't have to pay parking tickets. Officially they're still at home and outside US jurisdiction.

Sort of like you did with this ridiculousness there didn't you?
just copying someone else's to make a point. if you have a problem with ridiculousness, you should see Zarakon, he was being serious, me? not so much.